I'm a little suprised by this ruling, however, what Mr. Thompson was asking for was not completely unreasonable. The Court may have granted his motion based on his pleadings and the experts, but I'm sure it also boils down to the fact that Mr. Thompson was probably much more prepared than the Take-Two attorneys. I'm not sure how seriously Take-Two took this hearing, but I'm certain Mr. Thompson had everything lined up. Good preparation will always win a case. If I were Take-Two, I would take all threats from the Government, or any Attorney, including Mr. Thompson, very very seriously. I'm still not convinced they are taking anything seriously, and these are the guys that, in many ways, brought us to the point we are today in terms of legislation and the current problems that are cursing the game industry as a whole.

Overall, this sets a very creepy precedent, and it is one I think everyone should worry about, and I think we'll begin to see much more of this in the future.

Whether the game gets banned as a nuisance is a different story (which is ultimately where Mr. Thompson will probably take this), none-the-less, being orderd to provide the product to the Court for some sort of judicial review before release is a scary, scary thing, no matter how reasonable it may be.

@Grahamr

I'm guessing TT didn't take up Larry's offer...

@Jabrwock

I'm sorry for my wording but what I was refering to the Jack's "it has to be me that decides whether the game is or is not appropriate for children" I was relieved that is will be the judge deciding if it's a public nuisance and not Jack Thompson.

A prediction

Let's begin the search!
Four days later, nothing found
You loose. Play again?

Anyone think Take-Two is playing along, the publicity that's being generated for the game is priceless...

I bet he want to play the game without paying for it. :p

this is far more exiting then the typical"Censors file law,law gets destroyed by judge" scenario. this one has more plot twists and intriguing characters to bring to the table.

A word on Thompson’s slingshot stunt:

Absurd

So what if he brought a potentially lethal weapon into the courtroom? What does that prove? If I were the defense lawyer I would have said, “So did I!” and held up my pen. Just because I show you how to kill someone with a pen doesn’t mean your going to do it.

Besides, it’s not like Bully is going to teach kids what a slingshot is. All kids (especially Boy Scouts) know what a slingshot is and it’s not like no other video game character uses such a ruthless weapon. Link from Nintendo’s Legend of Zelda games uses them and he’s younger than Jimmy Hopkins is.

Kids have been using slingshots before video games. Why I can think of a Mark Twain protagonist who wields just such a device.


Andrew Eisen

The Judge indicated that he will take however long it takes to see the game played in its entirety."

So does that mean he's gonna relax watching the game when he should be doing judge work? No matter what anyone with a brain can see jack thompson declaring unsuitable for minors along with the ignorant judge, since he ruled in his favor. Why does a lawyer get exclusive rights to play a game just because he has a big mouth?

I say anything less then having rainbows in place of bats, slingshots, and dunking a "black" student in a dirty toilet. If you don't know, on G4 Thompson emphasize on saying "black student" when refering to a swirly. A atempt to get a ethnic group angry and then be exploited? You be the judge.

That is my rant I would like to see people's predictions on the outcome

You've got it all wrong:

Judge: Hey.. about that video game.. I need a copy
[... recieves copy ...]
Judge: Yo, dudes.. you know that new video game?
Dudes: yeah..
Judge: I just got a copy.. and 4 days to play it before I 'issue my judgement'
Dudes: rock on judge
Judge: yup.. y'know what else I've got?
Dudes: nope
Judge: you know that so-called "felony posession" case that just ended..
Dudes: yup
Judge: well.. I guess I know where the 'evidence' is going
Dudes: Rock on!! 4 Days of Stoned Atari bliss.. I'll bring the pizza
and the spray air freshener for yer 'chamberz'.. Whats up with that baliff chick and that hooker that you 'found innocent' last month?

"However, there are almost no respectable retail outlets that will allow a minor to purchase an R-rated (or above) movie - or to see an R-rated film at a theater, for that matter"

Not true. In fact, an FTC study showed that enforcement for R-rated DVD sales is actually WORSE than enforcement for M-rated movies (my kingdom for a link to that study).

@aniki21

The problem is that the judge agreed to review the game. Even if he gives the game a favourable review it still establishes the fact that the court has given itself the power to review media. It does not stop at simply videogames, either. Any creative content could potentially be brought before a judge before it is released. An insanse mother in Kansas could potentially attempt to get a judge to look at the last Harry Potter book before it is actually released in the states to determine if it will create satanists out of children in the state. It applies to all forms of entertainment. Regardless of how Judge Friedman rules, the simple fact is that the court should not have that power.

.....

Im shocked. Really badly shocked.

I anticipate an immediate appeal to the Third DCA by Take-Two

Why not? You're harrassing them in court. It's their right to ask the court to back off...

Oh wait, I forgot JT only likes courts of appeal if HE's on the loosing side...

I kind of expected this.

Now ive thought about it yes it makes sense, the judge has only his word right now so he need proof. Of course JT will overhype this, which im not looking forward to

As much as we don't like Jack, it's really nice of him to keep us updated on these events. ;P

Hang fire... is the judge getting a copy of Bully, or is Jack? I initially read it as Jack, but now I read it as the judge.

If it's the judge, then Jack's chances are even worse. If the judge can sit there and actually know firsthand when Jack is dropping BS, his case is toast.

@Scoops

From what I understand, it would have to be the judge who saw a copy. Otherwise how would he rule whether the game qualifies as a "public nuisance"? If he relied on JT's judgement, it would be an automatic conflict, because JT's the plaintiff...

The best part is, he doesn't need to show JT any of it.

So... do they get one multiple people to play the game for a collective total of 100 hours, or does just one person play it for the same amount of time?

Does the state pay the 100 hours worth of salary to the person(s) who do this?

Also, Rockstar has to ho this by 3PM tomorrow... so if they got it at 3PM, and played non-stop for 100 hours of gameplay, Then they would be done at 7 PM Monday, which is the night before the offical release date...

I doubt that they will finish those 100 hours before offical release. By then, I'll actually have the game...

So… do they get one multiple people to play the game for a collective total of 100 hours, or does just one person play it for the same amount of time?

I'd imagine that one or more of the judge's interns will be having a fun week.

Does the state pay the 100 hours worth of salary to the person(s) who do this?

Yeah, I'd assume so.
OVERTIME! /NBA Jam announcer ;)

Also, Rockstar has to ho this by 3PM tomorrow… so if they got it at 3PM, and played non-stop for 100 hours of gameplay, Then they would be done at 7 PM Monday, which is the night before the offical release date…

I doubt that they will finish those 100 hours before offical release. By then, I’ll actually have the game…

Ultimately, the release date isn't really the judge's concern. The fact that Jack waited so long to bring his suit is his own fault. Maybe he was trying to pressure the legal system, but the judge doesn't seem to be going for it.

In order for the Judge to issue and injunction of some sort or attempt to exercise prior restraint, he has to be satisfied that the claim ahs merit. So if he hasn't issued at least a temporary decision, then t means he's unwilling to do so until he see "actual" evidence, rather then the kind Jack is used to.

Really, the judge just doesn't want to wait until the 17th...

One assumes that Judges will be wary of similar actions being initiated my Mr. Thompson, once the frivolous nature of his claims are established.

@myrpok

But that's why I want to go into politics or become a judge. That way I can play video games before they're released. In the name of the public good, of course.

I have nothing to worry about. All I read about the game in previews is that the game is alright. I just wanna see what JT will say. I know I'm getting the game.

This could actually be a good thing. Maybe the judge wanted a copy so she could see for herslef whether it's a "columbine simulator," or just social sattire.

Even if Jacko wins this case, just buy it online...:)

I suspect that about half a day into it, the Judge will have a pretty good idea of the general tone of the game and will form an opinion on that basis. He may then get on with his other cases and instruct his staff to play through the game and report if there is anything that merits the Judge's review because it might contradict his earlier opinion.

While drawing out the length of the trial may give JT exposure, it also increases his downside risks if he loses. Legal costs for a game publisher and two major retailers cannot be cheap.

"I guess my question is… why is everyone so uptight about this recent decision? I mean, if, for some reason Jack wins this case, the game only gets blocked in Florida. If you dont live in Florida, this isn’t an issue."

It's called court president. If the game ends up geting banned in Florida it could also get banned in other states as well. Courts tend to mirror one another in this manner, if the one court bans it as a public nuisence other courts are more likely to follow.

This is terrible news. The fact that this case is lasting more than ten minutes is bad. I'm...just...stunned.

I really would like to see the part of Bully where they give you full step by step instructions on how to make a giant slingshot.

But really, I'm not sure that this sets any kind of precedent, since the case is based on an obscure nuisance law that is only in effect in Florida. So should it not only set a precedent there?

Not being to familiar with the US legal system, if the judge rules against JT would it not set a precedent that could be used in support of the ESRB or other game studios in future court battles?

I wonder what the judge will say about the game? I've been hearing that it actually has little violence and a lot of social commentary. What will happen if the judge says something about the game that Jack doesn't agree with?

"The judge is an industry shill, payed off by Blank Rome and the voices in my head!"

This could be very entertaining, let's just wait and see.

@konrad

There have been lawsuits against all kinds of media over the years.

Books are one of the greatest targets of "public protection" suits; consider Harry Potter, Huck Finn, Catcher in the Rye, etc. You can find lists of banned books online, the reasons tend to be borderline comical. Ultimately books tend to come out fairly unscathed, I think largely due to the fact that the written word has been around so damn long.

The movies had their troubles, initially not being granted First Amendment protections (in the teens). This led to bannings and, eventually, self-regulation via the Hays Code and, later, MPAA ratings. As far as I know, movies do have First Amendment protection now.

Comic books had government inquiries in the 50s, leading to the Comics Code Authority (CCA), which is now largely obsolete. Many comics still include mature content warnings, however.

Music, like books gets targeted every now and then; Elvis Presley's hip shaking and 2 Live Crew are two examples from the last 50 years or so. Like books, music tends to win out, again due partly to history. However we do have Explicit Lyrics labels now.

The fine arts (painting, sculpture, etc.) get targeted fairly frequently as well, with much less publicity and rarely with any success at all.

@T_Con: look carefully-

"[b]up to[/b] or more than 100 hours"

It doesn't need to be played for the entire hundred. It might only get played for a day or two. There may not even be 100 hours of gameplay involved...

/b

This doesn't scare me. The judge obviously wants to see the game to find out which side is lying. That's what a good mediator does, give both sides an equal chance, not just the more sensible one.

The best part: Once the judge finds out JT is lying, we'll have some more legal precedent.

@Jabrwock

Actually, that's not really true. Although the Judge does have discretion whether to hold a person, like Jack Thompson in contempt of his courtroom. The Judge has absolutely no say whatsoever whether or not a person can be charged with violating state, and federal laws by bringing a weapon into a courtroom.

The ultimate decision rests in the hands of state/federal prosecutors, not the Judge presiding in the courtroom.

@Fandal

Good point. I would love to see that. "Miami lawyer charged with bringing gigantic slingshot into court"

@Father Time

Unfortunately, JT DOES get to see the game (see Destructoid's blog), BUT at least he has to keep his yap shut, and the judge can see for himself that this is no Columbine simulator...

Can't Rockstar do something about the timing of all this? I mean, if Jack's worried about the game, fine (I think it's a load of BS, but that's not the point). I find the fact that he brought them to court less than a week before the shipping date rather odious. If it's such a big deal, shouldn't this have been brought up earlier? I guess if the case is settled before the games ship out, then no harm, no foul. If Rockstar has to keep games off the shelves or delay shipping or anything like that, and they win the case, will JT have to reimburse them or anything?

While I hate thompson, the judge is doing a suprising thing in cases such as this. I had half expected him to just rule for thompson and let the appeals court deal with the fall out, but he's instead chosing to see the game first before passing judgment, a sharp contrast to thompson who has already passed judgement on the game before it was finished.

Either way, Rockstar will probably appeal and will most likely win, but just to spite JT, they may as well just let the judge see it so they can throw all of JT's BS in his face.

We'll see where this goes.

Myself, I'll be picking it up on launch day just for laughs.

Funny how Jack thompson calls it a huge victory when the case can still easily go either way.

@ Father Time
He does that all the time. Any time the courts don't immediately throw the case out in the industry's favor, he acts like he won. He did it with the... I think it was the Alabama case. The judge decided that the case would go to court, and Thompson acted like this meant he won completely.

From Kotaku (who props GP):

the judge did not order the review of the game, but that Take-Two offered to bring the game in on Thursday at 3 p.m. so he could see for himself what all of the noise is about. A Rockstar employee is going to play the game in front of the judge and attorneys from both sides so the judge can decide if the game is offensive.

I can see JT quivering in rage as he insists that the R* employee is purposefully skipping all the "juicy bits".

@Ace of Sevens

Actually, someone over at Kotaku made a good point. If the judge rules in favor of TT & R* without ever seeing the game, JT could appeal on the grounds the judge never reviewed the game. This was he makes his ruling a *lot* more concrete, even if it *is* rather controversial to do so.

Give it to him.

The game got a T rating, it contains no graphic violence, you don't play as the bully, but much rather the one taking the bully down...

What's the problem here? If the Judge has any sort of decent common sense, he'll see that all of Jack's claims are false.

Or, the Judge could just be one big Rockstar fan...

Ahh yes, thompson claims victory over the fact that the judge decided that he wants to see the game to make a better decision on the ruling. Yes jack, that is such a huge victory. The video game industry is absolutely quaking in their boots.

Personally, I am glad that the judge asked for a copy of the game. If I was TT, I would have had a copy ready to go right there in the court room, but I can see trying to having the entire debacle taken care of without it (and yes jack, this is nothing more than a debacle.) My only real concern is that it seemed that the lawyers that TT brought to the table had no frickin clue what they were defending. Especially the one quote about Force Feedback. Oh and if Force Feedback is so important to the damn game, then why does the Playstation 3 Super rolly mega ultra controller (or whatever the new name is) not have any kind included?

Sorry Jack, no victroy for you here. In fact, I think that the judge asking for a copy to decide for himself is the start of your downfall. Better get your car ready for that Dominos delivery boy sign.

I don't see why everyone is so riled up about this. Unless the judge has issued a preliminary injuction against selling the game in Florida all it really means is he is giving due consideration to the case in order to blunt JT's eventually rant about how he must be getting money on the side from the ESRB, and R*. Must be nice to have a real legal justification for kicking back and enjoying the game for a day or two.

If we are really lucky maybe JT will be frothing at the mouth badly enough to warrent action by the bar after this one.

In the UK, there wouldn't be any 'victory' in the Judge viewing the game at all. It would just be part of the process, if it actually got to the court that is. I understand there is a culture of conservatism in the US and also the 1st amendment, but you need to see past JT's typical boasting of "huge victories" to the bigger picture; theres no way in hell this is going to be ultimately found in JT's favour.

Don't forget that JT still boasts of his victory over 2 Live Crew even though he lost! He conveniently forgets that the initial decision was overturned. I don't imagine he will mention any loss in this case either; he will just harp on that he got the Judge to view the game.

@ Jabrwock and Shaun Skipper

Thank-you both.

Nice to have your input Shaun. I'm glad you are still lurking around here.

@ unangbangkay
Rockstar is sending down an employee to play through the game while the judge watches. Presumably the judge tell the player what to do, to some extent.

Hey, maybe the judge just wants to get ahold of the game early ^-^.

I'm fairly confident that if the judge has any sense at all that he will dub the game 'innocent', or 'not guilty', or whatever the term is. I really just can't understand how Jack Thompson is taken seriously, but thats up to the Florida Bar Association.

No matter how this turns out however, I won't be unhappy with the outcome, it would just play into Mr Thompson's hands. Truth be told, I'm not really looking forward to Bully, but thats really a matter of a matter of opinion gameplay wise.

On a final note, slingshots? Please, I could improvise a more deadly weapon from the paperclips and binder that I am required to submit assessments in. Perhaps Jack is going for the biblical connotations "David trying to fell Goliath."

Note: Having just read Destructoid's take on the court day, I'd like to rephrase my remark about the slingshot... I'd probably only be able to make a weapon AS deadly as the slingshot. However, it would still be made out of a plastic and metal binder, and as such, it would get past security checkpoints.

This just in; The Judge Gives Bully a 5 out of 5 Stars!

jk, but If i was the judge, I would be playing the advanced copy also.

[...] In the politics of the video game world, Jack Thompson is the enemy. He is a Florida lawyer (though I question the prudence of using such a term), that has continually attacked the video game industry for its downward cycle toward moral turpitude. GamePolitics.com is reporting on litigation surrounding the new game Bully. For the uninitiated, Bully is a supposedly violent game that depicts the main character playing a high school bully, beating other students up. Mr. Thompson seems to think this ruling has done the world a favor. In reality, the Judge has only asked for a chance to review the game before making the absurd decision that the game is a public nuisance. Chances are, the judge won’t find any merit in Mr. Thompson’s assertion, but we can only hope the court will impose a sanction for his frivolous claim. Mr. Thompson seems to think that its necessary for the law to act as the parents of the nation’s children. In reality, there is already a governing body that rates games called the entertainment software review board (ESRB). If parents were doing their jobs, they kids would not get ahold of material not suitable for them, and the American people wouldn’t need overly paternalistic laws. [...]

Since everyone's said everything that needs to be said about the actual court order to Take 2, I'm thinking about whether T2 can file countersuit for Abuse of Process or whether there's some penalty under florida law (or within the state bar) for lack of due diligence.

From looking over some references to Florida state law I don't think there would be grounds for Abuse of Process allegations no matter which way this goes (and like everyone else I'm relatively confident that the judge will determine that Thompson's claims are without merit). We can -hope- that the judge will declare that Thompson filed a frivolous suit and penalize him accordingly, but without knowing more about the judge I couldn't even guess how likely that would be.

In short, while I'd love to see some sort of negative consequences for Thompson for his consistent and malicious distortions, outright lies (if he honestly believes them they're not lies, of course, but delusions) and general misconduct I doubt there will actually be any.

@Above poster with obscenely long name-Who are you?

Good god, so many trackbacks over one GP article. This must be some kind of record.

Goes to show a lot of us are shitting ourselves silly in anticipation.

What would make me laugh is if the judge turned around and said it was funny and he would play it himself.

Mr. Thampson is still being as much of an idiot as usual. The guy needs to grow up and stop acting like a child. I swear if I ever meet the dude I will punch him in the face.

What we need is an A-list person who plays videogames to jump into the fray. Could you imagine if Vin Diesel went against Jack? It would be awesome!

JT should be declared a public nuisance! If you go to Penny Arcade and read about the incident where he tried to have the guys at PA arrested for hurtful speech, you'd see that he always just spins the situation and leaves out certain facts to make his side seem better. He's like a 5 year old that lies about how he got into the fight, or why he started picking on the other kid. Unfortunately, cable news (and more stupidly G4) allow him to rant and rave about his singular viewpoint without any real counter-point.

The judge reviewing anything in a public nuisance case really isn't that big of a deal. The judge may not know anything about it and you can't rule on anything if you don't know what it is. I'm sure nothing will come of this except jack being an ass and take-two selling thier product in florida. This is why we need to move to digital distribution, then JT can suck it because stores won't be selling games they will all be purchased online and you never have to worry about you losing your cd's or serials.

Allow me to further elaborate:

A Miami court has ordered Take-Two to produce a copy of Bully for review. If Take-Two complies then October 12, 2006 will live on in infamy as a crushing defeat for the gaming industry and free speech advocates everywhere, regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit.

Many fellow gamers disagree with me. In fact, there are many who welcome the review because they believe that since Bully is rated Teen, Judge Friedman will side with Take-Two and hand Jack Thompson an embarrassing loss. They laugh that Thompson has chosen Bully for this fight instead of something more risqué. Unfortunately, those gamers fail to see the bigger picture.

Jack Thompson wanted an advance copy of Bully to review, even offering to drop the lawsuit if Take-Two complied. They rightfully denied his request, and have now been court ordered to hand a copy over for the judge to review barely a week before the game is to be released. Thompson's goals have become quite clear. "This is unprecedented and reasonable as well. This is a huge victory against the violent video game industry, regardless of the ultimate ruling on the injunction." -Jack Thompson. His goal was never to stop Bully from being released. Nay, something much sinister is afoot for those with eyes to see it.

Thompson's ultimate goal was to have the game called for review before release, establishing a precedent he can use for any future game release. You may think I over-react, but as gamers we all know Thompson's true colors. Why else would he target Bully when there are much more disturbing titles in the Mature rating category? Why else would he wait until only a week before release to file his lawsuit? Why else would he demand to review the game before allowing it to go on sale? Jack Thompson is setting the stage in order to become the gatekeeper through which all games must pass.

If Take-Two buckled and gave Thompson an advance copy, then they would have acknowledged that Thompson is qualified to decide what games can or cannot be published. If Take-Two obeys the court order, then it has been established that the court has the power to review and decide whether games can be sold or not based on content. This is prior restraint and unconstitutional, but the First amendment has never mattered to those who would censor speech to meet their ideal community.

"So what?" you may ask. Bully will pass and the game will be released, but what about the next game that comes out? Something edgier? Something violent? Something obviously aimed at Mature audiences? Well, Thompson has his precedent and need only shop around for a suitably social-minded judge and demand the game for review. With this new weapon in his arsenal, Jack Thompson has gained the power to dictate what is published. He will demand reviews of games, and he will get them. He will demand weeks to fully explore the game's content, then months in order to handle all the games he has on his plate. If companies wish to avoid such delays and possible court fees, then perhaps they should simply bend to his standards and save themselves the trouble.

That is blackmail, and it will work. Already we have seen the industry toning down anything that may be deemed controversial because of the Hot Coffee fiasco. The ESRB is under constant attack and the threat of constant lawsuits is enough to scare any publisher into editing their products to pass the morality tests. The removal of all blood in Xenosaga Episode III is a prime example of a publisher's overzealous attempt to avoid potential scrutiny by such vultures as Thompson.

We are at a critical point in the battle against censorship in the gaming industry. If we do not fight back now, our battles will only become more difficult. With every halfhearted defense of our freedom of speech, we hand the enemy another tool to use against us. We need to stop simply defending ourselves. We need to fight back. We need to show that we will not be bullied into submission by those who think they deserve to dictate to us. There are two fronts of this war and we must all do our part to win.

The most obvious front is the gaming industry itself. They need to take these lawsuits seriously and start hitting back hard enough to stop the attacks from coming at all. The book industry has defeated censorship. Comics, movies, music; they have won as well. We are the young media, and it is our turn to sta