I hate when people dont no any thing about a subject bad. The kid had problems thats why he killed those people, not because of what he did in his free time. It sounds like that kid was so messed up he went home and cryed himself to sleep. Maybe if he remebered what his country did sixty years ago he would remember to keep his mouth shut.

Ironically, one of the players you can be in Counter Strike is the German counter terrorist specialist police force.

So, if by inhumane violence he means "play a game that exaggeratedly simulates what our country's special forces do" then, maybe we should think about what inhumane is.

Where did this guy get these guns anyway?

Great, someone who wants to destroy and industry. What does he define inhumane as? What does he define as cruel. What ever happened to the right to tell a story. What about books movies and art. Why aren't they under the microscope.


okay calm down calm down....... erk...



Now I wonder what Daniel will have to say on the subject.

The weird thing is that §131 StGB already says that. Beckstein's suggestions are more or less only a rewording of what's already law in Germany.

http://bundesrecht.juris.de/stgb/__131.html

Wow. Germany sure knows how to learn from its past, can't it?

Also, because of this, Edmund Stoiber, wants to ban all "killing games" and is making a bid for chancellor. It's basically like George W. Bush, Jack Thompson, and Jerry Fallwell were one person. And were governor of New York.

Ayone willing to bet that Jack Thompson uses this as another "Fine example" of videogame legislation? e.e $10 says he mentions it in his next press release.

Poor Germany

this just sounds like a knee jerk reaction from asshole politicians, whathe is proposing is illegal under the human rights act in europe and not only that but it's against common sense too if they were to even attempt to bring in such a law there would be uproar and germany would only be making a laughing stock of itself and shooting itself in the foot as far as rvenue from the games industry is concerned

Hmmm.... Germany restricting or banning any media It's government doesn't like? Wow, It's almost like they've done this before. Seriously, How could anybody not notice the similarities between this and a certain german government from the past...

JAIL TIME FOR THE DEVELOPERS AND RETAILERS??? Who does this fascist fuckhead think he is? Killer games? Somebody should enact jail time for killer politicians. They instill me with the urge to kill far more than any video game I've ever played!

Well, if nothing else, the extreme position this German politician has on violent video games sure makes you feel a lot better about the less radical anti-game legislators here in the U.S. I don't honestly see how a law can be passed that criminalizes violent games without also criminalizing violent movies, TV shows, etc. It'd be like saying, "pornographic movies are banned, but pornographic magazines are still okay."
Maybe he's just pissed off about all the WW2 games.

Lost would have been banned by "Confidence Man." Or before, if you count Sawyer's gunshot to the lung.

Hmmm... great examples of calm peaceful responses... from some of the people here.

Seriously, though. I want to know where these people get the idea that video games are mind control devices for destruction. I'm sorry, I spent most of my high school years playing Counter-Strike, and I hate guns. I almost refuse to touch them. I've never been especially violent as it is, but I have become even less violent because of what I have seen in the media. Not more.

I'm not saying that there are no people that become more aggressive and violent because of video games, but claiming video games as the primary factor is beyond absurd, and I'm getting pretty tired of these politicians and bureaucrats pretending that they understand the cure to all the world's ills.

Since there seems to be some confusion. Most of what Beckstein proposes is already law in Germany:

(please note that "writings" here does not only apply to written media, but all kinds of media like movies or video games)

---

§ 131 Representation of Violence

(1) Whoever, in relation to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)), which describe cruel or otherwise inhuman acts of violence against human beings in a manner which expresses a glorification or rendering harmless of such acts of violence or which represents the cruel or inhuman aspects of the event in a manner which injures human dignity:

1. disseminates them;

2. publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes them accessible;

3. offers, gives or makes them accessible to a person under eighteen years; or

4. produces, obtains, supplies, stocks, offers, announces, commends, undertakes to import or export them, in order to use them or copies obtained from them within the meaning of numbers 1 through 3 or facilitate such use by another,

shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine.

(2) Whoever disseminates a presentation of the content indicated in subsection (1) by radio, shall be similarly punished.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) shall not apply if the act serves as reporting about current or historical events.

(4) Subsection (1), number 3 shall not be applicable if the person authorized to care for the person acts.

---

Still, relatively few games get banned, mostly because they aren't even released in Germany or are toned down by the publisher or developers.

There is absolutely no way that this could pass. It's such an obvious violation of basic rights it will be laughed out of court. What bothers me is that this nut is even trying. I mean, yeah you might get some publicity, but in the end, It just pisses people off, and makes other people not even want to be mentioned in the same sentence as you.

This seems to be yet another representation of an older generation being scared of anything new, full of 60 year old politcians who think they know what's best for everyone, In spite of the fact that they have never bothered to research the medium/never thought about what anyone else thinks/never looked out the window. Only this time, It's in Germany. I predict that as soon as a new entertainment medium comes out, people will look back at this and shake their heads, just like when we look back at the whole Elvis Presley debacle.

I like how he said 'unstable characters', instead of 'every child, the children need protecting, what are parents?'

Correction: Of course Bodo Ramelow is NOT from some Counterstrike clan - he's from the Left Party. Silly me. :)

Oh Christ! No wonder Crytek wants to move somewhere else. Britain will gladly have them and I'd gladly work for them...

@Grahamr

Look out, it's the post from ETC! Anyone remember when I was posting from Germany about five months ago and how I said that at least the German government wasn't entirely strohdumm(empty-headed)? I shall now proceed to retract that statement.

Reichstag fire decree anyone?

Lunacy.

This is crazy. An insane person assaults people and now Germany wants to ban all violent video games? Damn I'm glad I don't live there. The madness has to stop! Violent video games have nothing to do with psychopaths who go out and kill! He would have assaulted those people anyway. He was insane! The video games he played didn't have anything to do with that. The prime minister of Germany must have been listening to Jack Thompson and his retarded buddy, David Grossman, to sink so low. Only those two morons could come up with those kinds of conclusions.

Reading these kinds of things makes me furious at the lies of Jack Thompson and David Grossman. The people who do things like this are crazy and they need to be put into mental institutions instead of being allowed to roam the streets. Also many people, who have never played video games, have gone on killing sprees. Video games have nothing to do with it at all and they are innocent and must be vindicated and seen as what they are. An innocent form of entertainment. Say it with me. Violent video games do NOT make people violent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Daniel:

I don't think "Germany" wants to ban violent games, just two politicians want to ban them - more or less. And the one mentioned in the article isn't the "prime minister" of Germany, he's the interior minister of Bavaria.

Germany doesn't even have a prime minister. We have a chancellor. Mrs Merkel.

He cant arrest game developers because alot of them are either in Japan, America, France and the UK. Name one developer that is German in origin.

@gordon frohman

Crytek, makers of Far Cry and the upcoming Crysis are from Germany. Far Cry had to be censored before release, I believe.

@Truec

Considering how big a role H&K plays in their economy, I seriously doubt Germany will take the anti-gun route.

Besides, scapegoating either games or guns is missing the point. Maybe instead of trying to put the blame on inanimate objects, we should look at the killer himself, and see what REALLY made him go nutso. Seriously, has the public every actually blamed the SHOOTER whenever something like Columbine happens?

@Lazy

Thanks alot from that, it's good to know that this is indeed the ravings of single nutcase and not a somwhat joint opinion...

And honestly, asking where the weapons came from, looking to schools and homes for the source of problems, realizing that he lacks Media competence, realizing that the current systems are sufficant and that furthar bans would do NOTHING to solve the problems... Damn, we could use a few more pliticans like that here in the states; i mean, if we do have them they need to seriosuly speak up

For the most part, the only poeple here in the states that has that level of common sence are non-politcans... such as ordinary citizens, journalists, and a few others; you know, poeple with voice but no actual power...

to add:
The American constitution is probably more strict in protecting the rights of its citizens (though we better not mention nonsense like the Patriot Act), but the German one also garantuees things like freedom of speech and personality. And there is even an article against censorship. That one can be "ignored" when it comes to the protection of children, but like stated in the recent Illinois case, the positive effects of a law needs to be weighed against its restrictions.
While some politicians can't see that, the Supreme Court would probably slap them down.

There is also the same mediahype over every case with quick accusations and solutions and completely wrong depictions of games. The laws are already stricter of course, but in general the situation isn't that different. People are people

On the other hand I'm glad that we don't have minority lobby groups like the PTC and other family organizations. Moreover noone here complains about sex. Everyone here laughs about Nipplegate for example :p

"How'd he get hold of the guns?" "Who cares, he had a game?"

Nice to know we have our priorities stright.

Daniel, stop stretching the fucking pages with those exclamation marks.

seriously I would like to see him try. I'm a software engineering major and hope to one day program games (likelyhood slim). But I'd leave the country before facing that.

Psst! Hey man, wanna buy a game? You're over 18 right? Cool.

O crap it's the SS! HEIL FUHER!

@ Freekill

I only add extra exclamation marks to get my point across and to add emphasis to my point. I only want to get my point noticed and I don't like the idea that these games make people violent because they don't and, just to let you know, I'm NOT a violent person. I just want people to see my posts. That guy in Germany, that threw his life away, didn't do it because of Half Life Counter Strike. The notion that the game had anything to do with it is retarded. No one plays these games and then throws his life away acting it out. Their theories are crazy and full of holes big enough to drive a recking ball through. That's what I'm saying and when I say it, I tend to put a lot of emphasis on it.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off,
Daniel

Not too worried.

He's just some JT clone. I'm sure no one is taking him seriously.

Looks like this Gunther Beckstein is desperate of getting rid of his career. That, or making a COMPLETE idiot out of himself.

Wait, he's already done the latter - no matter then..

It's always a shame when a non-American country generates some news worthy of a place in Game Politics. It highlights how immature our little group can be, though thankfully it doesn't do it as well as places like the GameFAQs boards. (Shudder.) Among the more level-headed comments we have references to Nazis, complete disregard for the article's details of the politics involved, shouting, violent reactions, and a string of exclamation marks long enough to encircle the globe.

Is it any wonder people don't take us seriously enough?

This is ridiculous. Politicians are always so quick to scapegoat anything which could have a believable incident to events lile this.
In this case, he was a Counter Strike player so obviously anyone who plays Counter Strikes wants to shoot everyone around them.
They need a quick answer to everything, and violent video games is the popular enemy of the children of the day so it is the easiest thing to put the blame on.
People should not jump to conclusions like this. Maybe Counter Strike was an influence on this kid, but if it was he likely has a fair amount of issues that go far beyond a little violence in a video game.
This kid's past should have been looked into before coming to any conclusions, as it is likely he may have been through a life that could potentially cost anyone to snap.

@ grls-are-gamers-2

Indeed, I tried to avoid the references myself. I know that modern Germany is well aware of their dark past, and that they have seriously changed, and are making large cultural and technological contributions to the world. However, The amazing similarities between what this -one- guy is saying and what Nazi Germany did (In terms of censorship) are very obvious, and while it is unlikely that such a stupid and ludicrous law will ever be passed, the very Idea that anybody would consider it is bothersome to say the least, regardless of what country it is.

the more level-headed comments we have references to Nazis,

Well how can we resist, it is Germany, and so far this tops the chart as the most scary anti-gaming bill in existence. It is also very very Nazi-like. There is also the fact that Germany is trying to be less Nazi, and then one idiotic politician pulls this kind of crap bill which would make Germany more Nazi-like.

You know now that I think about it would be a bad thing if we DON'T compare this bill (just this bill not present-day germany) to the Nazis. I mean sure we can compare it to 1984 all we want but given everything I jsut said not comparing them to Nazis could possibly start a very large downword spiral where we end up completely forgetting everything about Nazi germany, and where it is not mentioned in history classes. And we all know we can't have that.

I agree people should refrain from the Nazi comments with regard to this issue. Excessive censorship alone (which this is) is not the defining characteristic of Nazism. It's a highly undesireable and stupid proposal, but that does not mean this has anything to do with Nazism.

As an American who has lived in Germany on two separate occasions for a total of 4 years, I'd like to say that I'm confident that today's Germans are quite democratic, compassionate and un-warlike (with the possible exception of the skinheads from the former East Germany, who are a small minority.)

As far as the person who suggesting putting the gun-makers in jail instead of the game makers... I'd point out that a gun is simply a tool, and one can easily kill people with any tool, such as butcher knives and claw-hammers! Why should a manufacturer have liability for the immoral and illegal misuse of a tool? I'd suggest a radical concept - put the CRIMINALS who ASSAULT people in jail....

How do we prevent stupid laws like this? The education system is critical to create an informed voting public capable of making good decisions in a democracy.

[...] I guess the whole pacifict thing over there is really taking hold.  In any event, I’m a federal criminal in the USA for having downloaded the software that lets me watch DVDs on my Linux machine.  (It’s true.  People never believe me when I tell them this.)  But if I go to Germany, if a certain government minister gets his way, I stand to get locked up for playing Halo 2 on my Xbox.  Yipers.  I mean, I remember when Alan Cox didn’t come to the USA because he was afraid of the federal police locking up foreigners Dimitri Sklyarov-style for DMCA violations.  But now, what if there’s a scientific conference in Germany?  What if they found out that I’ve played Halo?  And we’re not even gonna talk about Grand Theft Auto…. [...]

the very strong counter argument for this is that FPS games also provide an outlet for this type of behavior.. if these games are creating 1 murderer for every 5 it keeps under control, then these games should not be banned!!!

Looks like you all have a Jack Thompson wannabe in power over there in Germany.

I wouldnt be shocked if JT gives this guy a visit and cites him as an example of what we should do here.

Also, something like this happened in Greece a few years back, the first arrest and trial resulted in the law being shot down. You guys have a good chance of the same thing happening. I wouldnt say as much for any US laws that would come into effect though...

Either way, this guy is facing being voted out very soon.

I think the real comparison is with South Dakota passing a law out lawing abortion this year. Blatantly unconstitutional, but popular with constituents.

[...] Go to Jail, Go Directly to Jail... It now seems like FPS PLAYERS are being targetted.... GamePolitics.com

I thuibk people like this "minister" get a huge hard on at the thought of incarcerating people. It's some perverted sexual thing with them.

As if the world didn't have enough f*cking facists in it already.

Jail for game developers??...

They have a very balanced and logical view of things in Germany...

all i have to say is, "BOOOM HEADSHOT!!!!"

I know that this might break Godwin's Law, but it is nice to see that the fine Nazi tradition of banning things you don't like, and jailing those who do those things, is alive and well in Germany.

What are the fucking Ex nazi's coming to now ?

Jesus Christ

FUCKING NAZI CUNTS

Before living in Europe (Germany, France, Austria and Norway), I thought it would be neat to marry a local girl, like my uncles had done, and live there as an American ExPat. Living there for awhile opened my eyes. Europe is no longer free in the American sense. They just never have gotten the idea of freedom at all. I realized that we have a lot more of the cowboy and frontiersman in us than we give credit for. Americans basically feel that we are free and that when laws are passed, we give up a little more freedom for security, good of the whole, environment, or whatnot.

Not the Europeans. They never did have a free frontier. They lived under kings and dictators until the US came and gave them what little freedom they have now. They don't have that innate sense of entitlement to freedom. Thus, whenever their new kings and dictators shave off yet another slice of that American-given freedom, they shrug and wonder if, in return, they get government benefits at least.

Europe is not free. I don't think they understand the concept.

I think that people all over the world can learn from this. Right now it's all over the press: "killer games" instead of FPS and bloody pictures - who are taken from MODs or english, but not the german versions which are already modified to be less violent. It's opinion making at it's best. But we as gamers do very well know what's fake and what cheap tricks are used. The point is that such opinion making and cheap tricks are nowadays commonly used all over the world - so people really need to be watchful and use common sense whenever politicians open their mouths - and not only in Germany but also in the US and the rest of the world.

Simplified you are only allowed to have firearms at home if you re huntsman or are in a gun club. Usually that's also where most of the homicidal maniacs over here get their guns from and their skill in using them - not from playing CS but by stealing the guns from their father or even being in a gun club themselves.

You would expect that someone calling out loud that he wants to prevent such things from happening would take an objective look at the reasons and if he wants to forbid games he would also forbid gunclubs and do something against the social problems/school situation leading to such crimes. But I am sure he has quite some friends who are huntsman and that social stuff is expensive - so let's just take the cheap and easy solution.

And finally I see many people post there like "haha politicians are stupid". As you can hopefully see they are not at all. The tactics of opinion making works very well - because a lot of people sit all day long in front of their TV and are not interested in politics at all. Still they are voters, you just have to feed them enough silly stuff, frighten them, whatever - so they will go and vote for you.

In the end it's the politicians smiling about us being stupid while they fill their wallets...

Total bullshit Civil war very violent but there were no video games back then WW1 and WW2 also very violent but no video games back then. And also the Crusades if that was not violent i don't know what is and oh guess what no video games back then. This is all total bullshit just trying to ban games for no reason at all.

Attention all anti-german posters.

You fail at life.

If you going to say crap about germans, feel free to send all your racist messages to me via Private Messaging on the Forums here. I am a german, so if you wont say these things in front of one, then shut the &%#@ up you cowards.

The funny part is that normal TV is much more violent then most games.
Obviously politicians never watch TV, otherwise they would know that...

So, if violent videogames are to be prohibited then logically we would also have to:

JAIL ALL WATCHERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!

JAIL ALL PRODUCERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!

This article is unfortunate proof of the mindnumbing stupidity of some politicians. I think they should make an IQ test mandatory for politicians, then we might not see such brainless proposels as the one the german minister did.

I apologise, I didn't read all the comments.

I myself think this is a shocking proposal, but the way I look at it it is just a proposal.

I am German, but haven't lived there in 3 years. The country isn't very liberal and has a very strong traditional sense. And with all the media and 'mum's groups' constantly giving games a bad light, well are you surprised?

{}As far as the person who suggesting putting the gun-makers in jail instead of the game makers… I’d point out that a gun is simply a tool, and one can easily kill people with any tool, such as butcher knives and claw-hammers{}
severe difference- guns can ***only*** be used to kill, if your accurate maybe to dissable someone with another gun, but not at all likely.
{}Excessive censorship alone (which this is) is not the defining characteristic of Nazism{}
I dont see the point in not mentioning Nazism, as long as we aren't hypocritical morons who think that this is more than a small majority. I see that this happens everywhere, and in all countries. But still, Germany ignored its history once before, and now we have reason to believe that given a few decades it will do so again.
hope you motherland-hugging nationalists at least look the direction of your own country with a severly critical eye once and a while. I do my best to play that role here in the USA.
{}That’s like the people that hate America because our asshole Representatives{}
I dont know that much about Germany, but we hate our representatives here in the US (for the most part). everyone here is either an elitist capitalist asshole (like me) or a thieving, bumm-hugging tree growing loon. (like my town)
this is largely why your getting this huge rant, because we KNOW that yelling out loud is the only way to keep yourself from being shut up by your government, a hint: America has survived, is most powerful and THE ideal of freedom for a reason.

(for those of you left behind in my little rant, I think both the nazi-screaming morons and the germany-cuddled nationals should both take a bit more of a wholistic perspective, I think that neither side is completely wrong here)

[...] More wacky news from Germany over their anti-gaming bills. Any violent game that features “cruel or otherwise inhumane acts of violence against humans or humanlike creatures” is to be banned, and anyone retailing it available (say from France or Poland) or creating such game matter is to be fined or jailed. Also!! Playing such games in Germany would also be a no-no. Something to keep in mind before stuffing Serious Sam 2 in your GBA carrying case, huh? [...]

Before you start bringing up fascism you need to consider the fact that at least on of the reasons for the very restrictive german laws considering violent media content has it roots in the fear of fascism. The glorification of fight, war and violence was a very important point of the nazi-ideology and german public and policy (strengthened in the beginning by the Allies) was to counter that roots, early censorship laws in the 70ies were originally made for the banning of neo-nazi-literature and later expanded.

This is especially the position of the left political spectrum and the right is usually always ready to agree here for the same and some other reasons based on religious thinking and fear of change, new developments et. cet. Thats why those censorship laws found and find supporters from everywhere. It´s not simply a special german fascism-gene, there are different reasons. You can compare it to the more restictive laws considering denying the holocaust which are also pretty unique compared to the US for instance. You dont have to agree with it but its just stupid to just call it a new version of fascism. Just look at the very unique approach to Pornography or just naked nipples in the US.

I dont agree to the Beckstein-position at all, its incredible and sad how many stupid things those people say who dont have the slightest knowledge about the subject, present bad research as "proof" and try to get some voters on their side who dont have any idea about games too. Theres a good chance that the whole thing will backfire in case he will really succeed (keep in mind that were only talking about a paper with some suggestions that should start a discussion so far), because the EU will have a say in it in the end and its unlikely that other countries will totally agree. I dont really think that there will be a change in german law anyways even though the whole thing is definitely BS.

{}People here are doing a great job of confirming the stereotype of the ignorant and dumb American :p{}
I didnt say you were one, but you cant deny there are some here

pls tell me you dont actually believe Germany doesnt have its share of egoinflated assholes, just about every country has them. and saying that at least some of these people arent is utterly blind BS

let me make a clarification on my post 2 above this one: I didnt mean to compare the intensity of the events, but rather their focus. I know killing millions of people is in no way in comparable magnitude to jailing with extreme prejudice. but their direction is the same

and yes, I'm sorry for the multiposts, my thoughts usually come in waves

Let me submit this last thing to you:
Germany, in all its efforts to erase its Facist past, is using Pseudo-facism. Facism is the concept of the benevolent leader, doing and censoring what he believes is right for the people. IF YOU PLACE CENSORS OUT TO BLOCK THE CONCEPT OF FACISM, YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE FUNDAMENTAL FACIST CONCEPT. this is something the Forefathers of the Constitution understood with amazing clarity, in order to avoid being a facist government, you have to let the facists talk, you may hate their guts, you may think they belong in loon halls, you may think that they couldnt be more stupid than the level they have already reached. BUT IF YOU CENSOR THEM, YOU HAVE BECOME FACIST YOURSELF

thats why a few more European countries should study the Constitution. its a concept that is mimiced by numerous countries, but few are more than just poor facades of true democracy. I'm not saying the US is perfect, but it has a fundamental concept of rights bred into it that doesnt exist in the EU. perhaps why the spread of the "american idiot" image is so common in europe. its a sense of rights you guys haven't grown up with.

You obviously fail to understand that Germany is in a special position considering neo-nazi-activities. I actually agree with you, censorship is probably the wrong way here but try to imagine that its a bit harder standing up for the rights of neo-nazis here than in the US considering the past and the fact that the pre-1933 political system granted them those rights with the effect that they took power. They way you argue every censorship is fascism and you totally ignore that there are alot of areas where european laws are less restrictive than the ones in the US (gay rights, Pornography). I already mentioned "nipplegate", creating a censorship of live-tv-shows. Reading your comments it seems as if there were no censorship and restrictions since the constitution in the US which is so ridiculous I wont even start to mention examples.

Do you really think that there arent alot of people in the US who would like those games to be banned too? The fact is, that about 90% of the "studies" and research that "proves" how dangerous those games are comes from the US (Huesmann, Anderson, Dill, Bushman, Grossman et. al.). Turning this issue in a comparison of political systems or bringing up nazis isnt going to help or convince anyone. Simplifying complex issues is exactly what those politicians do.

"I understand that there are censors in the US, but at best they are meant to keep abusive language from the public airways, or ban the admitance of child pornography."

Thats simply not true and I gave you several names of people who are argueing and fighting for censorship of games and violent media-content. You just ignored the facts I pointed out about the research and I could give you much more.

"the ones that don’t make sense (like not being allowed to walk backwards after sunset within city limits) are generally not followed up on."

So if someone in the US wants censorship its ok because nobody follows him, when a German demands something similar, like Beckstein, its a sign of fascism? So far, were only talking about some proposals that will most likely be turned down (just as you describe it for the US).


" so its difficult, suck it up"

The difficulty is the fact that the first people you have to face the are the ones who survived the atrocities and the holocaust. Your comparison of the holocaust and that desired law against (!) violence is pretty much nonsense by the way, even after your clarification.

"it can be done, and this is something that Germany is going to have to face up to at some point, otherwise the country WILL spiral downwards again."

As I already wrote, granting the freedom of speech in the Weimar Republic to the nazis didnt really help keeping them away from power. The "spiral downwards" didnt start with denying them that freedom. You lack that historical experiences as several others (good for you).

{}Thats simply not true and I gave you several names of people who are argueing and fighting for censorship of games and violent media-content{}
true enough, but 1 ) they dont have a laughing chance and 2 ) we dont ALREADY have censors on said media.
{}The difficulty is the fact that the first people you have to face the are the ones who survived the atrocities and the holocaust. Your comparison of the holocaust and that desired law against (!) violence is pretty much nonsense by the way, even after your clarification.{} How so? I think there are plenty of people who would agree that jailing people because of what they think about is in the same direction (but not the same magnitude) as killing them. Frankly I dont see the huge difference b/w religion and video games, your going to have to clarify what you dont understand for me.
{}The “spiral downwards” didnt start with denying them that freedom{} well you know what? if the majority want a facist regime than thats what your going to get in a Democracy. you CANNOT create a true Democratic government that oppresses its constituents. and you know what? THATS WHAT THIS IS. there is no way around it. you cannot say that the facists would take over if_______ so we have to oppress them. the truth is that if you dont let them speak, they have already taken control.

{}You lack that historical experiences as several others {}
and I'm sure your God's best gift to History since sliced bread.

"1 ) they dont have a laughing chance"

Do you call them Fascists too?

"we dont ALREADY have censors on said media."

You may have a less restrictive censorship on violence but there are other areas like pornography where its pretty much the other way round. And you have age restrictions on movies and games just like we do which are probably fascism as well. Besides, what about censorship in media or much more increased rights for law enforcements after 9/11?

"Frankly I dont see the huge difference b/w religion and video games, your going to have to clarify what you dont understand for me."

One major point should be obvious: you DECIDE if you want to play a video game or not.

"and I’m sure your God’s best gift to History since sliced bread."

I wasnt refering to you personally but the US-history.

Let me get this straight once again: Im not defending this stupid idiot and his weird and dangerous ideas (the minister of justice already dismissed this btw and I hope she prevails) and I basically see and share your view about censorship even concerning nazi-literature. I just fail to see why there always has to be a fascism-connection whenever a German is just plain stupid.

[...] GamePolitics a dat publicitatii stirea incredibila ca Ministrul german de Interne, Gunther Beckstein vrea sa incarcereze persoanele ce produc, distribuie si joaca jocuri video violente. Jucatorii sunt destul de speriati de o punere in practica a unui asemenea proiect. Totusi cea mai incredibila informatie este ca jucatorii ar putea face cunostinta cu inchisorile, sentintele ajungand pana la aproape 1 an. Totul a fost starnit de atacul unui jucator de Counter Strike de 18 ani asupra unei scoli, in care a ranit 37 persoane si s-a sinucis. Ca de obicei politicieni actioneaza cu solutii la fel de violente ca si situatiile care au provocat temerile. Mai multe informatii aici. Permalink Trimite prin email [...]

@Move_Zig
Show me one european country the US of A brought "freedom", apart from Germany and that one was rather a joint project. Not included the half of Germany and Europe "you" gave to the freedom loving f****** USSR.
Thank you so much, wanna ask my mother how it was to grow up and live in the
GDR. Wanna know who delivered us from that evil, we have, the same ones who don't understand the concept of freedom.
Frontiersman, yeah right, explore the west and rape and kill everything you approach, that's FREEDOM bitch!

ROFLMAO!

I'm thinking that if games have the power to instill violence and militant behaviour in kids, then anyone who pulls out a gun at school would immediately be blown away by all the counter terrorist wannabe's or Quake guards protecting mankind from evil.
As any self respecting gamer knows, its not the killing, or the violence that makes a game good, its about immersing yourself in a world where you are saving mankind from evil on your own or with your team. It gives you self respect and a sense of self worth on a small scale. We have all learned it's easier in the game cos real life is realistically difficult (doh!) and if someone gets this message all mixed up and goes on a rampage in real life, it simply means his parents or the system has failed him/her.. Games are not the problem. Media is not the problem. Discipline and family relationships are... it seems.

[...] Thanks to the French government developers with a history of innovation are going to be able to create unique, risky games without having to face as much financial uncertainty.  Also, some other excellent European developers will have a game-friendly option in an increasingly hostile environment.  Germany, in an extreme case of anti-video game sensibilities, has proposed legislation that would require jail time for game players and have already gone as far as to raid Crytek’s offices.  In fact, just read through some of this crap from a search for “German” on GamePolitics.com. [...]

I couldn't understand some parts of this article and Players, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

Now that's odd...

Certainly I did write that blurb attributed to me above, but I don't ever recall posting it on this website, much less even knowing that this website exists.

I normally post in another forum connected to a different Blog.

How curious.

With respect to a response to my (forwarded) post:

I can see that there exists a certain class of cynical and vocal youth who are completely unschooled in history. And this is a shame, as a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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