In Wake of Rampage, German Minister Wants Jail Time for Violent Game Creators, Distributors ...and Players
In Wake of Rampage, German Minister Wants Jail Time for Violent Game Creators, Distributors ...and Players
December 6, 2006
According to a report in Spiegel, a bloody school shooting in Germany last month has led to renewed calls for action against violent games.As reported by GamePolitics, an 18-year-old Counter-strike player assaulted his former middle school in November, wounding a reported 37 people before taking his own life.
The rampage led Minister of the Interior Gunther Beckstein to propose amendments to German law which would authorize prison sentences for those who create or distribute game content which features "cruel or otherwise inhumane acts of violence against humans or humanlike creatures."
The real shocker is that Beckstein would lock up violent game players as well.
Penalties proposed by Beckstein include up to one year in jail and/or fines.
GP: The translation of original web page was accomplished via Google, so it's rather imprecise. I have made small edits to the Beckstein quotes which seem contextually correct.
UPDATE: MSNBC has more, including a quote from Frank Sliwka, head of the Deutsche E-Sport Bund, which coordinates online gaming competitions:
Now we are being labelled as a breeding ground for unstable, dysfunctional and violent youngsters.
MSNBC also reports that Interior Minister Beckstein has reached his own conclusions about violent games:
It is absolutely beyond any doubt that such killer games desensitise unstable characters and can have a stimulating effect.
The article further speculates on what such a ban might mean for the March, 2007 PlayStation 3 launch in Europe. Top titles for the beleagured system include shooter Resistance: Fall of Man and Call of Duty 3.
Comments
On a side note: The age of the average gamer is approaching 30 (it may have already reached it recently, I'm not sure). The age of the average politician is approximately 60. Out of touch with the world much?
So, if by inhumane violence he means "play a game that exaggeratedly simulates what our country's special forces do" then, maybe we should think about what inhumane is.
Where did this guy get these guns anyway?
Oh wait, he just means video games. Well I guess it's ok then... /sarcasm
okay calm down calm down....... erk...
Now I wonder what Daniel will have to say on the subject.
France: just launch a pre-emptive strike now before it's too late!
http://bundesrecht.juris.de/stgb/__131.html
Screw him.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,452713,00.html
Poor Germany
Why? It's not like we don't already know there's no merit to "games incite violence".
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit mutig-festem Schritt...
/sarkasmus
Maybe he's just pissed off about all the WW2 games.
He doesn't even have much support, as that article linked by Lazy said.
Seriously, though. I want to know where these people get the idea that video games are mind control devices for destruction. I'm sorry, I spent most of my high school years playing Counter-Strike, and I hate guns. I almost refuse to touch them. I've never been especially violent as it is, but I have become even less violent because of what I have seen in the media. Not more.
I'm not saying that there are no people that become more aggressive and violent because of video games, but claiming video games as the primary factor is beyond absurd, and I'm getting pretty tired of these politicians and bureaucrats pretending that they understand the cure to all the world's ills.
(please note that "writings" here does not only apply to written media, but all kinds of media like movies or video games)
---
§ 131 Representation of Violence
(1) Whoever, in relation to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)), which describe cruel or otherwise inhuman acts of violence against human beings in a manner which expresses a glorification or rendering harmless of such acts of violence or which represents the cruel or inhuman aspects of the event in a manner which injures human dignity:
1. disseminates them;
2. publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes them accessible;
3. offers, gives or makes them accessible to a person under eighteen years; or
4. produces, obtains, supplies, stocks, offers, announces, commends, undertakes to import or export them, in order to use them or copies obtained from them within the meaning of numbers 1 through 3 or facilitate such use by another,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine.
(2) Whoever disseminates a presentation of the content indicated in subsection (1) by radio, shall be similarly punished.
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) shall not apply if the act serves as reporting about current or historical events.
(4) Subsection (1), number 3 shall not be applicable if the person authorized to care for the person acts.
---
Still, relatively few games get banned, mostly because they aren't even released in Germany or are toned down by the publisher or developers.
This seems to be yet another representation of an older generation being scared of anything new, full of 60 year old politcians who think they know what's best for everyone, In spite of the fact that they have never bothered to research the medium/never thought about what anyone else thinks/never looked out the window. Only this time, It's in Germany. I predict that as soon as a new entertainment medium comes out, people will look back at this and shake their heads, just like when we look back at the whole Elvis Presley debacle.
Could one of you give us a brief summary of what the link you posted says... i doubt many poeple here speak german
It basically says the the reactions were to Beckstein's proposal were mixed then lists a few statements.
Monika Griefahn (SPD) said that the current legislation is sufficient and she doesn't really understand what Beckstein wants to add to it. She also says that the shop assistants should be better educated about the ratings system.
Bodo Ramelow (not sure who he is, but I guess he's from some Counterstrike clan) says that the politician have in most cases no clue what they're talking about when it comes to video games and that they themselves lack the "media competence" they often demand from the parents.
Dieter Wiefelspütz (SPD) says that the existing laws should be checked again, but a discussion about bans would be a sign of helplessnes. He suggests that reasons for violence should be looked for at schools and homes.
Grietje Bettin wants to know where the weapons came from. She thinks that a ban on violent games wouldn't solve anything and asks for better methods to detect people who are socially isolated.
Hans-Joachim Otto (FDP) calls Becksteins ideas naive and says this would criminalize the developers and large parts of the video gaming community. He also warned of the dangers of censorship.
Joachim Herrmann (CSU) says something urgently needs to be done about those "killergames" and says he even wants to censor TV too. Because of the children or something.
Course, I don't look to them for the best ideas on preventing violence. What a bunch of whak-a-doos.
Look out, it's the post from ETC! Anyone remember when I was posting from Germany about five months ago and how I said that at least the German government wasn't entirely strohdumm(empty-headed)? I shall now proceed to retract that statement.
I suppose they forgot about hitlers Book burnings, his domination of the airwaves, and blood shed it led to.
Ah how easily some people forget.
Say what you will, I'd rather be here in the USA then over there, our politicans maybe scumbags, but they aren't this crazy.
Not to mention when it comes to game laws, our Poli's are incompetent!
Germany needs a new slogan. I got one.
"Come to the new Germany, for a Fuzzy kind of facism"
Seriously though, I'm not surprised by this. An old man over in Germany is bound to be as out of touch with the today's youth as the old men over here are out of touch with today's youth. This has nothing to do with his ancestry, it's got everything to do with a hot button issue.
"Protect the children" will always work, no matter what country it's in.
More to the point, after a shooting like this people WANT something or someone to blame. All too often the shooter decides to take his own life, leaving the populace with no single person to shove the blame on. They can't watch his life deteriorate around him because he's taken it. They won't take it out on parents who are in grief at the loss of their own child, or at least the media won't.
Claiming poor parenting and the need for therapy doesn't sell ad space on TV. Saying videogames are destroying our youth does.
Reading these kinds of things makes me furious at the lies of Jack Thompson and David Grossman. The people who do things like this are crazy and they need to be put into mental institutions instead of being allowed to roam the streets. Also many people, who have never played video games, have gone on killing sprees. Video games have nothing to do with it at all and they are innocent and must be vindicated and seen as what they are. An innocent form of entertainment. Say it with me. Violent video games do NOT make people violent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not all of Germany is endorsing this plan of action you know...
@Daniel
Don't use so many exclamation marks and don't get so excited.
I don't think "Germany" wants to ban violent games, just two politicians want to ban them - more or less. And the one mentioned in the article isn't the "prime minister" of Germany, he's the interior minister of Bavaria.
Germany doesn't even have a prime minister. We have a chancellor. Mrs Merkel.
Heil Gunther! Heil Gunther!
He deserves the title 'Minister of INFERIOR' (Clockwork Orange references FTW)
Germany claims have parted themselves from their fascist past, but its quite obvious that they haven't learned a bit
I swear to god if this spreads to America, there is going to be an uprising at hand
Crytek, makers of Far Cry and the upcoming Crysis are from Germany. Far Cry had to be censored before release, I believe.
Considering how big a role H&K plays in their economy, I seriously doubt Germany will take the anti-gun route.
Besides, scapegoating either games or guns is missing the point. Maybe instead of trying to put the blame on inanimate objects, we should look at the killer himself, and see what REALLY made him go nutso. Seriously, has the public every actually blamed the SHOOTER whenever something like Columbine happens?
I read nothing about ajil time for players in the article.
However the jailing video game creators bit is stupid unless it refers to online games. Think about where are most video game creators located, Japan and the U.S., do U.S. and Japan cititzens have to follow German laws? The answer is a big fat no. So we will still have grand theft auto and the like.
However still this is censorship no more no less. This could easily be compared to 1984, 'expose our citizens to something we deem innapropiate you get sent to the ministry of love' (For those of you who didn't read orwell's 1984, the ministry of Love is basically a combination prison/torture cell where people who didn't like the party were tortured and mistreated).
Thanks alot from that, it's good to know that this is indeed the ravings of single nutcase and not a somwhat joint opinion...
And honestly, asking where the weapons came from, looking to schools and homes for the source of problems, realizing that he lacks Media competence, realizing that the current systems are sufficant and that furthar bans would do NOTHING to solve the problems... Damn, we could use a few more pliticans like that here in the states; i mean, if we do have them they need to seriosuly speak up
For the most part, the only poeple here in the states that has that level of common sence are non-politcans... such as ordinary citizens, journalists, and a few others; you know, poeple with voice but no actual power...
Americans shouldn't for one second think that their politicians are any different. They are just as dumb. At least the ones in power. This isn't any different from Jack Thompson and other American nutcases ranting. Same arguments, same mindset.
Beckstein is just the interior minister of a state. The states' rights in Germany aren't as extensive as in America. They can't pass such laws on their own, but merely influence the lawmaking process. At the end it still had to be decided by all states as well as by the federal government.
And some socialists as well as all opposition politicians have already labeled the idea idiotic and populistic.
He can get some other interior ministers on his side, but that's pretty much it.
What's worrisome that he would even propose such a blantantly unconstitutional law. But hey, American politicians tried that a dozen times and always failed. So don't act so high and mighty.
The American constitution is probably more strict in protecting the rights of its citizens (though we better not mention nonsense like the Patriot Act), but the German one also garantuees things like freedom of speech and personality. And there is even an article against censorship. That one can be "ignored" when it comes to the protection of children, but like stated in the recent Illinois case, the positive effects of a law needs to be weighed against its restrictions.
While some politicians can't see that, the Supreme Court would probably slap them down.
There is also the same mediahype over every case with quick accusations and solutions and completely wrong depictions of games. The laws are already stricter of course, but in general the situation isn't that different. People are people
On the other hand I'm glad that we don't have minority lobby groups like the PTC and other family organizations. Moreover noone here complains about sex. Everyone here laughs about Nipplegate for example :p
Seriously, would you want poeple in other counties saying that Lieberman is speaking for all of american when he calls for cencorship of media? no? i didn't think so...
Nice to know we have our priorities stright.
But Beckstein is a special case. He's the only one who wants to criminalize millions of people and he usually makes the most extreme and bizzare comparisons, like videogames and child porn.
Note that this isn't the only area where he behaves like that. He is also very strict and reactionary with immigration or anti-terrorism laws. And he's well known for acting like that.
So the media gives him attention because he cries the loudest. But I'm sure other politicians don't take him entirely seriously either.
I'm not quite sure that is the best way to get your point across. I PLAY VIOLENT GAMES AND LOOK AT ME! I AM NOT VIOLENT AT ALL!!! RAAAWR! (insert an annoying amount of exclamation points here). Not to accuse you of being a violent person but that's what it sounds like to the passer-by
Perhaps the violent video games are just a type of outlet for an ALREADY violent person? I wonder why politicians never think about this. Not like this is news at all. Same old story, just change the name of the person saying it.
O crap it's the SS! HEIL FUHER!
You'd think that the country that gave us shieza videos would be a little more open minded.
I only add extra exclamation marks to get my point across and to add emphasis to my point. I only want to get my point noticed and I don't like the idea that these games make people violent because they don't and, just to let you know, I'm NOT a violent person. I just want people to see my posts. That guy in Germany, that threw his life away, didn't do it because of Half Life Counter Strike. The notion that the game had anything to do with it is retarded. No one plays these games and then throws his life away acting it out. Their theories are crazy and full of holes big enough to drive a recking ball through. That's what I'm saying and when I say it, I tend to put a lot of emphasis on it.
Sorry if I pissed anyone off,
Daniel
He's just some JT clone. I'm sure no one is taking him seriously.
no offence but it really isn't neceesary for you to try to drive your point across that angily (so to speak) no one here is pro-game censorship and nobody here belives game cause people to do violent things, or that rockstar markets to kids or any other BS the politicians and jack thompson would like us to believe. Any person that believed that crap who posted on these boards were always badly beaten in an argument, and quietly left the site. With the exception of Jack Thompson himself who trolled the sites never responded when someone madea counter-point spouted the worst BS you've ever heard, and compared us to Nazis. He was such a nuisance that gamepolitics changed its formatting style to be rid of him (we used to be a livejournal blog).
Wait, he's already done the latter - no matter then..
I'm well aware of the BS garbage lies of Jack Thompson. I've been to many other websites where one gamer even said that he thinks he's Jesus. That's how crazy Jack Thompson is. I started posting here because of him. I thought that the issue over video game violence was dead. Then I started going to gamespot.com and I found out that Jack Thompson was keeping it alive and I didn't want his lies to go uncontested. He thinks we're all morons and says very nasty things about us and that's why we need to fight back and we have to write letters to people in positions of authority that can get rid of and destroy his case. We need to get more active and make this guy's case disappear.
Is it any wonder people don't take us seriously enough?
And Crytek does NOT want to move somewhere else (as long as they can make their games here without fear of persecution, of course).
In this case, he was a Counter Strike player so obviously anyone who plays Counter Strikes wants to shoot everyone around them.
They need a quick answer to everything, and violent video games is the popular enemy of the children of the day so it is the easiest thing to put the blame on.
People should not jump to conclusions like this. Maybe Counter Strike was an influence on this kid, but if it was he likely has a fair amount of issues that go far beyond a little violence in a video game.
This kid's past should have been looked into before coming to any conclusions, as it is likely he may have been through a life that could potentially cost anyone to snap.
So... you're saying that Germany's full of fuckheads because of a couple politicians?
That's like the people that hate America because our asshole Representatives.
That's like the people that think gamers are TEH EBIL!!!11 because of a few psychopaths.
If you're going to be hypocrites, then leave my cousins out of it.
One last thing: NEVER compare modern-day Germany/the German populace in general to Nazis. EVER.
I know that it's a little late for this rant, but I just had to get it off my chest. I feel much better now.
Indeed, I tried to avoid the references myself. I know that modern Germany is well aware of their dark past, and that they have seriously changed, and are making large cultural and technological contributions to the world. However, The amazing similarities between what this -one- guy is saying and what Nazi Germany did (In terms of censorship) are very obvious, and while it is unlikely that such a stupid and ludicrous law will ever be passed, the very Idea that anybody would consider it is bothersome to say the least, regardless of what country it is.
Well how can we resist, it is Germany, and so far this tops the chart as the most scary anti-gaming bill in existence. It is also very very Nazi-like. There is also the fact that Germany is trying to be less Nazi, and then one idiotic politician pulls this kind of crap bill which would make Germany more Nazi-like.
You know now that I think about it would be a bad thing if we DON'T compare this bill (just this bill not present-day germany) to the Nazis. I mean sure we can compare it to 1984 all we want but given everything I jsut said not comparing them to Nazis could possibly start a very large downword spiral where we end up completely forgetting everything about Nazi germany, and where it is not mentioned in history classes. And we all know we can't have that.
It's just one idiot saying "We should create a bill to outlaw violent games". How is this any different from Jack Thompson's rantings?
There are some politicians who say "We shouldn't dismiss it out of hand and talk about it", but also many who realize that it's just pointless scapegoating and reactionism. They just need to prevail if anything more than talk comes out of this.
And I think the point is that many Americans are just quick to cry "Nazi" on the internet. Often on occassions so silly that it loses any meaning in the few cases when it might apply. But you can find censorship in any dictatorship. It's undemocratic, yes. But there is no need for some of the hyperbole shown here.
As an American who has lived in Germany on two separate occasions for a total of 4 years, I'd like to say that I'm confident that today's Germans are quite democratic, compassionate and un-warlike (with the possible exception of the skinheads from the former East Germany, who are a small minority.)
As far as the person who suggesting putting the gun-makers in jail instead of the game makers... I'd point out that a gun is simply a tool, and one can easily kill people with any tool, such as butcher knives and claw-hammers! Why should a manufacturer have liability for the immoral and illegal misuse of a tool? I'd suggest a radical concept - put the CRIMINALS who ASSAULT people in jail....
How do we prevent stupid laws like this? The education system is critical to create an informed voting public capable of making good decisions in a democracy.
You want the single most compelling argument against these types of politicians?
Try the U.S. government's own Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics graph for Serious Violent Crime By Perceived Age Of Offender (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/offage.htm).
Consider that the serious violent crime rate (and murder if you check those numbers too) has dropped pretty much year on year since 1993 - the year Doom, arguably the first "murder simulator," was released.
That's why we all should be wondering where the kid got the gun from.
For what it's worth, I think banning firearms is a dangerous mistake for society. It's like banning cockroaches and insecticide at the same time (care to guess which one prevails?). This is evidence that firearms bans really don't work.
I wouldnt be shocked if JT gives this guy a visit and cites him as an example of what we should do here.
Also, something like this happened in Greece a few years back, the first arrest and trial resulted in the law being shot down. You guys have a good chance of the same thing happening. I wouldnt say as much for any US laws that would come into effect though...
Either way, this guy is facing being voted out very soon.
talk about overreaction!!!
some right wing loony politician is vying for visibility in the media and fishing for votes in his constituency (for beckstein is a loony - most germans know this) and all over the web people are talking about nazis and hitler.
get a life! all of you.
He gets misreported as Interior Minister of Germany (which he is not).
You misrepresent his views as german mainstream.
you congratulate yourself on living in a better country in which jail time for game developers is unimaginable.
well let me tell you something: it is just as impossible here.
and also note.
I could have found just as good a raving loony comment after the hot--coffee-mod affair.
I just don't put it on the front page and claim "this is america"
Bavaria is just one of the 16 states of Germany, and by far the most conservative one. This is like asking a Texas republican about gay marriage and then saying: "Look, these fascist American want to make even LOOKING gay illegal!".
But at least the Germany-equals-Nazi-clown-squad had their fun with this. My advice for you guys: if you had watched what your country is doing NOW as closely as what my country did two generations ago, we all would have less problems...
No, people like this are brain dead reactionary fanatics. They don't belong in any position of power.
They have a very balanced and logical view of things in Germany...
Jesus Christ
FUCKING NAZI CUNTS
Not the Europeans. They never did have a free frontier. They lived under kings and dictators until the US came and gave them what little freedom they have now. They don't have that innate sense of entitlement to freedom. Thus, whenever their new kings and dictators shave off yet another slice of that American-given freedom, they shrug and wonder if, in return, they get government benefits at least.
Europe is not free. I don't think they understand the concept.
Simplified you are only allowed to have firearms at home if you re huntsman or are in a gun club. Usually that's also where most of the homicidal maniacs over here get their guns from and their skill in using them - not from playing CS but by stealing the guns from their father or even being in a gun club themselves.
You would expect that someone calling out loud that he wants to prevent such things from happening would take an objective look at the reasons and if he wants to forbid games he would also forbid gunclubs and do something against the social problems/school situation leading to such crimes. But I am sure he has quite some friends who are huntsman and that social stuff is expensive - so let's just take the cheap and easy solution.
And finally I see many people post there like "haha politicians are stupid". As you can hopefully see they are not at all. The tactics of opinion making works very well - because a lot of people sit all day long in front of their TV and are not interested in politics at all. Still they are voters, you just have to feed them enough silly stuff, frighten them, whatever - so they will go and vote for you.
In the end it's the politicians smiling about us being stupid while they fill their wallets...
You fail at life.
If you going to say crap about germans, feel free to send all your racist messages to me via Private Messaging on the Forums here. I am a german, so if you wont say these things in front of one, then shut the &%#@ up you cowards.
Obviously politicians never watch TV, otherwise they would know that...
So, if violent videogames are to be prohibited then logically we would also have to:
JAIL ALL WATCHERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!
JAIL ALL PRODUCERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!
This article is unfortunate proof of the mindnumbing stupidity of some politicians. I think they should make an IQ test mandatory for politicians, then we might not see such brainless proposels as the one the german minister did.
And for the german haters: Once we have fully integrated the former communist part of germany which is already turning into a nazi stronghold as we speak and have forged new military pacts with Russia and China we'll be coming for you! And don't think for a second that a preemptive surrender by the french will save you. :-)
I myself think this is a shocking proposal, but the way I look at it it is just a proposal.
I am German, but haven't lived there in 3 years. The country isn't very liberal and has a very strong traditional sense. And with all the media and 'mum's groups' constantly giving games a bad light, well are you surprised?
(1) Whoever, in relation to writings (Section 11 subsection (3)), which describe cruel or otherwise inhuman acts of violence against human beings in a manner which expresses a glorification or rendering harmless of such acts of violence or which represents the cruel or inhuman aspects of the event in a manner which injures human dignity:
1. disseminates them;
2. publicly displays, posts, presents, or otherwise makes them accessible;
3. offers, gives or makes them accessible to a person under eighteen years; or
4. produces, obtains, supplies, stocks, offers, announces, commends, undertakes to import or export them, in order to use them or copies obtained from them within the meaning of numbers 1 through 3 or facilitate such use by another,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine.
(2) Whoever disseminates a presentation of the content indicated in subsection (1) by radio, shall be similarly punished.
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) shall not apply if the act serves as reporting about current or historical events.
(4) Subsection (1), number 3 shall not be applicable if the person authorized to care for the person acts.{}
I'm sorry if this has been said before me. but we here in America call this subjugation. looks like the old germany has still left a few prints here and there.
and besides its not the law passing that irritates us here, and makes us rave, its the concept that these old loons are trying on.
talk about your performing politicians, pleading towards their voter base.
screw you Beckstien, screw you Hillory
severe difference- guns can ***only*** be used to kill, if your accurate maybe to dissable someone with another gun, but not at all likely.
{}Excessive censorship alone (which this is) is not the defining characteristic of Nazism{}
I dont see the point in not mentioning Nazism, as long as we aren't hypocritical morons who think that this is more than a small majority. I see that this happens everywhere, and in all countries. But still, Germany ignored its history once before, and now we have reason to believe that given a few decades it will do so again.
hope you motherland-hugging nationalists at least look the direction of your own country with a severly critical eye once and a while. I do my best to play that role here in the USA.
{}That’s like the people that hate America because our asshole Representatives{}
I dont know that much about Germany, but we hate our representatives here in the US (for the most part). everyone here is either an elitist capitalist asshole (like me) or a thieving, bumm-hugging tree growing loon. (like my town)
this is largely why your getting this huge rant, because we KNOW that yelling out loud is the only way to keep yourself from being shut up by your government, a hint: America has survived, is most powerful and THE ideal of freedom for a reason.
(for those of you left behind in my little rant, I think both the nazi-screaming morons and the germany-cuddled nationals should both take a bit more of a wholistic perspective, I think that neither side is completely wrong here)
Oh the irony.
People here are doing a great job of confirming the stereotype of the ignorant and dumb American :p
Germans are not ignorant of their past. And on German forums people do bring up Nazism. But when they do that, they know what they actually know are talking about.
Here, it's generally just utterly mindless drivel and idiotic generalizations. Saying something against this baseless stereotyping and uninformed nonsense doesn't make one a nationalist who can't see the faults.
But when people start with such extreme opinionating there is no point in presenting a balanced view. They'll only latch on the negative aspects.
This is especially the position of the left political spectrum and the right is usually always ready to agree here for the same and some other reasons based on religious thinking and fear of change, new developments et. cet. Thats why those censorship laws found and find supporters from everywhere. It´s not simply a special german fascism-gene, there are different reasons. You can compare it to the more restictive laws considering denying the holocaust which are also pretty unique compared to the US for instance. You dont have to agree with it but its just stupid to just call it a new version of fascism. Just look at the very unique approach to Pornography or just naked nipples in the US.
I dont agree to the Beckstein-position at all, its incredible and sad how many stupid things those people say who dont have the slightest knowledge about the subject, present bad research as "proof" and try to get some voters on their side who dont have any idea about games too. Theres a good chance that the whole thing will backfire in case he will really succeed (keep in mind that were only talking about a paper with some suggestions that should start a discussion so far), because the EU will have a say in it in the end and its unlikely that other countries will totally agree. I dont really think that there will be a change in german law anyways even though the whole thing is definitely BS.
I agree with you. I am a history major and, in fact, I just wrote a paper for my History final about the Holocaust. The Nazis put twelve thousand Jews to death every day at one part of World War II, with their gas chambers. I don't think they were influenced by video games, since there were none back then. I am curious as to what Jack Thompson's argument to that would be. You're totally correct and that's what I've been saying. People have killed each other since the beginning of the human race. Long before Mortal Kombat and Doom came out.
History goes to prove that Jack Thompson, and all other anti-game activists are wrong. How would they respond to the fact that violence has always existed, and in fact, there was a lot more killing in other periods of history than there is now. You don't see white men killing Indians anymore, or Klansmen killing innocent African Americans anymore. Over all, there is a lot less violence now than there was even forty years ago. How can Jack Thompson and David Grossman respond to that?
I didnt say you were one, but you cant deny there are some