Wow, now not only will just talking like a racist idiot, fictional writings and drawings will land you in jail, video games will too!

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Imagining for a moment that this law actually gets passed...

Unless I'm missing something, this law can only apply to German citizens living in Germany. So, all it will achieve is:

1 - To destroy the German game development industry, by having developers either leave Germany or get thrown in jail. This won't do good things for the German economy.

2 - To stop shops from stocking 90% of the games available in the rest of the world (Germany has extreme censorship laws for games as it is, and if they're claiming that even the titles that currently make it onto German shelves is still too violent, then this law would seem to rule out any game involving physical conflict). This will damage the economy too, as many high street game stores will have to close down because they're not allowed to sell the games people want.

3 - German gamers will import games, in secret (ironically meaning that they'll be getting the non-censored versions the rest of the world gets). Anyone caught will be thrown in jail, where no doubt they'll learn more about violence and crime than any game can teach them. Robbed of their future, I can picture things going badly for them when they get out after serving their time.

I really don't see any of this happening.

ElectroDruid brings up a good point. A year in jail's gonna teach you a lot more about violence than any game will.
If this law passes (although from what some people have mentioned, no one actually supports it and this is getting blown way out of proportions) I see pretty much the same effects as prohibition had here. Gamers will import the games in, smuggle them if they have to. Effectively, it would just be taking away a chunk of the economy from the hard working retail stores and giving it to the smugglers.

@ElectroDruid

your correct about each part except for the third i believe... The law is placed only upon developers and distributers... So i don't think gamers would get imprisoned for just owning the game... though i wouldn't be surpirsed if the nutcase did throw that into the legislation; making it illegal just to own the game...

Though if by some extreemly off chance this law did pass, the law could be seen as a blessing in diguise though... When all the violent games are gone, and the country's youth has not improved one little bit, Germany can than be used an example why games are not a cause of violence and why banning games is a pointless effort... unfortunatly, the german gamers would still have to suffer for the next few years until their government wised up

>"If this law passes (although from what some people have mentioned, no >one actually supports it and this is getting blown way out of proportions)"


Yeah. It's good that people are alarmed over the far-reaching consequences and I'm a little worried myself, but I have the feeling that some here might take the phrase "proposed law" too literally.

1.) All he says is basically "let's think about ammending the current laws to create further restrictions". It's not like there is a law already drawn up ready to be voted over. This might be shot down before any detailed deliberations take place.
Beckstein is somewhat known for suggesting outrageous and very restrictive laws

2.) In Germany the states can't decide that much on their own. About the only area where they have complete autonomy is education. But in this case all they can do is introduce a law proposal into the second chamber of parliament (sort of like US Senate). Then all the other states and the first chamber have a say in it too.
And the government. The federal justice ministry for example said that the current laws are sufficient


Btw, Crytek is the only German software developer who produces FPS. The rest focuses on other genres like simulations, RPGs or RTS. So the impact on the industry wouldn't be that great.

Again, what Beckstein proposes is actually already law in Germany. I'm no legal expert, but the only difference I see is that Beckstein's bill explicitly mentions video games and punctuates the "active" depiction of violence - the rest is the same as in §131 StGB.

And the current §131 StGB is already used on video games (complete with fines and a maximum of 1 year jailtime), like e.g. Manhunt.

Though, I've never heard of anyone being jailed by this law - the most extreme case I'm aware of are two importers of Asian splatter movies who got fined a few hundred euros.

It's really a matter of interpretation. Yeah, technically "violence glorifying media" are already forbidden. But now that's only used in very extreme cases that usually deserve it.

What Beckstein proposes is adding some formulations to that same paragraph so it could be applied to any game depicting violence. And probably change the presently used interpretation of "violence glorifying" to a lower treshold

am i the only one who thinks he looks like Keanu Reaves? :D

i think the very idea that this law is created is absurd and i pray it doesn't pass. yah school shootings are no good, its an absolute shame. but we still have never seen any hard proof that video games are the cause.

I am suprised and yet not at the same time, I was going to comment on the previous post about the law that the Far cry developers could move but I didn't think it would happen since it would mean that everyone there and their families would have to move. I was surprised to find they would be ready to do this. However now that i think about it the alternatives would be either joblessness or yielding to censorhsip and trying to make games that don't violate a very loosely defined law .

Oh and yeah

restrictions on violent game sales to imprisonment for the people who create, distribute or play them.

Can you tell me where in the bill it says jail time for game players? I find it so incredibally hard to believe that I think you may have mis-understood the bill.

@thefremen

Well put,

I think that's good that they are thinking about leaving Germany if the law passes. This means that they might not listen to that old fuddy duddy, who wants to ban games because he sees everything by the standards of fifty years ago. I think things like this will get the blame off media for random acts of violence, such as this. If the industry starts resisting, this could hurt the economy and video games will be left alone and, when people do crazy things like this in the future, the killer will be the only one to bear the blame.

I hope they leave even if the law doesn't pass, because that would really drive an economic bucket of cold water on some politicians. Honestly, if they're gunna threaten to do stuff like that, I'm betting they're already making contingency plans to get out of there and not look back.

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As off center as German and Aussies laws are regarding games any dev should move just on them baning games alone.....

I dont understand where Germany places its values. They are up in arms about a harmless violent video game (its a game people). But they are fine with men pissing and shitting on females in what they call adult video.
Sick bastards!

This is precisely why censorship should be avoided in any of it's forms. You have the government deciding what is appropriate for your eyes. Next you have to worry about them silencing any political opposition. Remember the 'Fairness Doctrine' people? Where idiots here in the U.S. passed a bill where every radio station had to be 'balanced' on it's political views. (the bill was done away with thank god) So who determines what is right and wrong to watch..... THE INDIVIDUAL, or THE PARENTS.

[...] While the German government considers legislation which would criminalize the development, distribution and even play of violent games, a leading developer says it may be forced to relocate if such a law is passed.read more | digg story [...]

Keep in mind guys, politicians just love talking about how their opponents drove out €20 million in jobs at election time.

[...] Oh, and speaking of Germany nowadays. If you didn’t know, they are talking about making a legislation that would make selling violent video games illegal. The proposed German law features penalties which range from increasing the current restrictions on violent game sales to imprisonment for the people who create, distribute or play them. The creator of the game Crysis (which coincidently, just got delayed…. again.) threatens that they will be leaving the country if it passes. More power to them! http://gamepolitics.com/2006/12/07/far-cry-developer-threatens-to-leave-... [...]

In the ever unlikely scenario that the law does get passed, wouldn't the few psychos that do get a kick exsessive violence try to vent their anger/depression/whatever the fuck drives them through another medium, oh, like say, reality? If so, wouldn't crime increase?

I think most of those German gamers are better at spelling than you are. Talk about IQ.

OMFG, do them retards have rap music banned? That crap is alot more violent then any game could ever be. Also rappers are REAL! So what if most of the crap they rap about is made up BS to make them appear tougher than they actually are! Germans seem to be going into a dictatorship again! They wont stop people from downloading pirated copies of the games even if they were banned! They would probably be the country with the most pirates after that one hahaha!

@Decirium

I am not a politician and I will never be one. I am just talking about common sense. One day I was sitting on the grass in New York's central park on beautifull sunday afternoon, reading my book, eating my sandwich along with bottle of beer (German beer). I was arrested for that. Is it Democracy? You tell me.

And just read that:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/09/german-legislation-would-jail-fps-gam...

Any more questions?

@kosmos

Only one thing to say, thanks for the dignified response, because what you said is exactly the point I wanted, the fact of repression.

Counterstrike is a reasonable choice of target, but it only defined what someone did, the case I referred to was proven false later, blown out of proportions by the media. The people who considered that Counterstrike was a cause were not psychologists, and yet, there is a higher risk there as I personally know that it used to be free to download and play. Neither side of the argument can be proven, was he influenced by the game or was the game an example of what he wanted to do in his head before playing it? Was it even possible that his parents stopped him from playing it and the next thing he tried it in real life?

The US does have plenty of idiots in powerful positions I admit though, after the Hot Coffee mod that GTA: San Andreas had, where did they attack next? The Sims 2, because it could allow you to mod things like removing the blur, which it only turned out had Barbie/Ken franchise style bodies.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html?sid=6129609

The fact is, there are countries that want to make a combined internet censorship to control what we do on here. How long before it would become illegal to have an opinion? A little extreme maybe but smaller battles like this one could be what stops momentum in the moronic minority that are allowed to say what should be and shouldn't.

I'll finish my comments with one thing though, I admit that I would use examples from games that I consider would be appropriate to happen to people who annoy me, but that is the extent of it's influence on me. When it comes down to children who should never have legally had their hands on something, it's the fault of either parents for buying it them or the retailers who didn't follow the laws already in place, it has never been the game at fault.

What a tangled web we weave...



1) First they came after the smokers, but I didn't smoke, so I was all for it.
2) Then they came after the trans-fat in food, but I was a health food fanatic, so I was all for it.
3) Then they came after the video games, but... Oh wait.

This doesn't surprise me one bit. In fact, it's freaking hilarious. You go gov!

We're from The Government, and we are here to help. This thread should be moved to the plotical discussion section.

LOL, after seeing the anti-smoking crowd all for taking my rights to smoke away, I am all for this new ban, and many more to follow!
And, yes, video games DO kill, they make children into violent predators, and we need to protect the children, and, more importantly
society in general from people affected by this bildge. Passive video game violence also kills.


[i]Sucks for Germany if it does pass cause PC gaming is big there from what I hear...no more shooters o.0.[/i]

Good! Then I won't have to maintain a parallel German version of everything :) I love this law, thank you God!


Also, yes there is a direct similarity between smoking and violent video games. For example: [url=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003008918_belgium21.html]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati..._belgium21.html[/url]

FTA
[i]
When 18-year-old Hans Van Themsche was expelled from his boarding-school dormitory [u]for smoking[/u], police officials here say, it pushed him over some existential edge. He shaved his head, bought a Winchester hunting rifle, put on a black leather trench coat and wrote a note saying he was going to kill foreigners. Then he went on a shooting rampage in the narrow cobblestone streets of this ancient port city.

...

"He apparently wanted to commit suicide," said Vlaams Belang spokesman Phillipe Van Der Sande. "[u]He played a lot with violent computer games[/u], and he went to a shop and bought a gun and started shooting around with it. Such a murder has no racist motives. [u]He was probably mentally disturbed[/u]."

...

During his interrogation, Van Themsche "confirmed that he sympathized with the extreme right side of our political landscape" and "declared himself to be a skinhead," said Dominique Reyniers, a prosecution spokeswoman. [u]He did not explain why he killed the [b]small girl[/b][/u], she said, "but in the opinion of the investigating judge, the girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

...

Reyniers said law-enforcement officials were investigating whether [u]Van Themsche was acting out a scene from the video game "Grand Theft Auto."[/u]
[/i]


And not only that, he was also mentally disturbed, which studies show is another side affect of violent video games. And he killed a small girl in the process. This also proves that it causes passive death TO CHILDREN! When are you "video gamers" going to start thinking of the children for once!

It was nice having you playing video games with us, now it's time to find a healthier hobby. At least now I know I can travel to Germany without
having to worry that some deranged n00b is going to go postal on me just because he got pwn3d in Doom3 one day.

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Really nice post - thanx for sharing