“Ready to have a party and shoot some people?” …Logs Detail Secret Shopper Sting

Recently, GamePolitics reported on a secret shopper investigation conducted in three Washington counties at the behest of State Rep. Mary Lou Dickerson. The Democrat is a longtime critic of video game violence and was the sponsor of a 2003 video game law which was eventually declared unconstitutional by a federal judge.

In Dickerson’s recent sting, underage buyers were able to purchase M-rated games just over half the time. Dickerson commented, “That’s kind of a shocking statistic. I didn’t expect it to be as bad as it was.”

Now, GamePolitics has obtained the raw data logs which detail that investigation. According to the documents, a clerk at a Blockbuster in Burien, WA, sold a copy of Halo 2 to a 15-year-old girl, asking her:

Ready to have a party and shoot some people?

On the other hand, a clerk at a GameStop in South Center Tukwila told the girl:

I am sorry. I will lose my job if I sell to you.

Rep. Dickerson’s Legislative Assistant Melissa Bailey told GamePolitics that the survey was more of a spot check rather than a definitive study of the issue.

This was not intended to be scientific.  We just conducted a simple check to see if underage kids can buy M-rated games. 

Check the logs out for yourself (MS Word format): King County, Thurston County, Snohomish County.

GP: Big thanks to Omaha Sternberg of iGame Radio for the tip!

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  1. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ Iliad

    I never condoned Jotun’s accusations. I think he was wrong to say that Yoshiko likes pornography. I don’t at all think that he was right. I think he was 100% wrong, when he said that. I simply think that he doesn’t like Jack Thompson and it’s hard for me to be against someone who is against Jack Thompson. However, I’m not condoning what he said. Although I’m also against pornography, I don’t think that everybody who sees it will become a rapist. He was wrong again when he said that.

    I’m not defending his comments. However, I’m saying that he made a mistake. People make mistakes all the time. It’s human nature. Somehow, he doesn’t come across to me as a bad person out to slander people. I think Yoshiko had every right to be mad as hell as Jotun for his comments. However, he made a mistake and let’s move on. That’s what I’m saying. I think it’s time to forgive and forget. Jotun, I think you should apologize to Yoshiko. Those comments were wrong and you had no right to say that.

  2. 0
    Jotun says:

    And by the way,

    To everybody,

    I hereby agree with everyone here, I am sorry, I felt very guilty that I said that, not because I want everyone to feel sorry for me, but I felt that is because the greater sin inside me is that I abused human rights and freedom, I shouldn’t be saying that people who loved porn are rapists and Daniel thought me one thing, even though I hate porn, I should think of others people’s feelings instead of thinking of myself.

    I had learnt one thing from John F. Kennedy and that is, “Many people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thinking.”

    I’m sorry for all people here, now I realized my mistake and although I still hold on to my dislike for porn and the world is getting into a big trouble (terrorism, war and racism) but I now know that one should think of others and not himself.

    So to Yoshiko (sorry for the CS thing), hayabusa and the people who hated me, I would love to seek your forgiveness.

  3. 0
    Iliad says:

    Wow.. ok… first off, @ Daniel, drop it.. seriously, you were arguing with yoshiko, more of a conversation really when Jotun jumped in on her as well.. apparently the old phrase “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” jumped into your mind and you proceeded to back him up….

    This was a mistake.

    If you have any decency I suggest you distance yourself from that ignorant grandstanding fool quickly, I agree with yoshiko, his use of “sir” was if anything, condescending. I could just as easily tell you to fuck off, but if I say “Sir fuck off” its much different right? No? Didn’t think so.

    It seems like the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing is the topic here, in my humble opinion, as you are apparently thinking that because jotun is supposedly an opponent of Jack Thompson, he is apparently on our side.

    I would rather have an enemy with a gun to my face then an ally with a gun to my back any day… Jotun and his ignorance serve only to misrepresent the intelligent gaming community that is needed to calmly and logically debate jacks utter bullshit, we do NOT need every ally we can get, even when we needed every ally we could get we would still be better off turning down the ones like Jotun.

    If anything, he is just like jack.. the personality strikes me so.. similar in that they are both prudish idiots that try to back illogical arguments by bringing up completely unrelated subjects and misplacing blame, jack is a whiny child in a deranged old mans body, he sends flame mails to his opponents, and has even been known to post on message boards and things just like (and including) this one, the only difference is jotun is perhaps more subtle.. and that isnt saying much.. the use of sir means nothing, he is just trying to distance himself from a different kind of flamer, the “ROfL fuk u NOOB I r rite u r rong” type, let me assure you, they are just as ignorant, but one is more dangerous.

    @Jotun In addition to all the things said above, you are a disgrace.. it shames every intelligent rational person who crosses these boards to have you on them, you’r ignorant, yes, by DEFINITION, IGNORANT, assumptions are idiotic and only serve to prove how foolish you are.

    FYI: Ive been playing violent games for QUITE some time, and game period for even longer, ive also seen my fair share of porn, and you insisting that porn has the effect of turning its viewers into rapists or anything of the sort is, as yoshiko said, as ignorant as saying video games turn children into trained killers.

    I cant help but notice the similarities between you and jack, did I mention he likes to bring up, (and participate in) cases where someone who commited a violent crime also, by coincidence, had a video game console at their house/apartment/ etc… you are one in the same.. you have associated every person who has done an action, an action that doesnt hurt anyone, and is none of your business, with disgusting criminals, who hurt in unspeakable ways, shame on you, you prick piece of shit.

    Thanks for making my day with your earlier post by the way yoshiko, I love a good burn.

  4. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Rants are generally unstructured and discombobulated attempts to make the same point over and over again in an uncontrolled way. Long-winded usually involves continuing to be redundant far after one’s point is made. My posts were neither, buddy. That short enough for you? I sure wouldn’t want to put you out any.

  5. 0
    Yoshiko says:


    I think Jotun’s use of “sir” and “ma’am” was more meant to be condescending rather than polite, since they go on to talk about how I love porn then indirectly implying that I’m going to become a rapist and kill women. Last I checked you can’t rape the willing! (haha, see what I did there? No? never mind… ._. )

    It wasn’t really a few mistakes. Jotun was making bigotted comments and being prejudice.

    Why can’t you post like this all the time, Dan? If you were more articulate with the rest of your statements I wouldn’t be jumping your balls all the time.

    Sarcasm doesn’t translate through text as easily as I’d like it to. I don’t whether to say “You’re welcome” or be offended.

  6. 0
    Weatherlight ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Yoshiko & hayabusa75
    Thank you, for making sense in your long winded rants. I can’t stand people who over generalize and are unspecific, when making offensive statements. You two seemed to have done a pretty good job of fixing this issue.

  7. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ Yoshiko and hayabusa75

    As I said before, I think Jotun made some mistakes by saying that you like pornography. However, I think overall he is very respectful by saying sir when he posts. I think he has good intentions, but he makes some mistakes along the way. He shouldn’t be put down that much for a few mistakes. Nobody’s perfect.

  8. 0
    Yoshiko says:

    I don’t know where your accusations are coming from in claiming that I love porn, kid. You are off your rocker and out of your element.

    I’m sorry, saying that everyone that likes porn is or will become a murderer, rapist or sex fiend is just like Jack saying that anyone that likes video games is or will become a murderer or obsessed with violence.



    You are being a fucking moron. Just because someone hates Jack Thompson doesn’t automatically prove that they’re the fucking shit.

    No, I’m not Christian. I’m Agnostic. I also know the difference between reality and fantasy very well.

    I balance high school, working out, work, community college and soon my university classes, graphic design, web design, party, budget planing and my bills alongside my video game hobby.

    CounterStrike isn’t the only game I play, dipshit. Name any fucking game and there’s more than a good chance that I’ve played it at one point in time.

    Daniel, again. You’re a fucktard. Look at yourself. People like YOU are the reason people like US are having the finger pointed at. Jack Thompson isn’t the enemy here in this argument. You are.

  9. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    C’mon dude, who do you think you’re kidding? Jotun, respectful? You don’t consider derogatory blanket statements about all Christians disrespectful? Sweeping generalizations about people who watch porn (and yes, I do) are OK?

    I see why you like him; he’s like your twin or something. You both are strong willed, tenacious about sticking to your convictions, and your likes, dislikes and mannerisms mirror each other. That’s the good news.

    The bad news is this:
    1) Neither of you can stay on topic consistently.
    2) Some of the things you write show that you both post before you think way too often.
    3) You both have a habit of missing the point.
    4) When you respond to people, half your answers don’t address the original statements, and you go off on a tangent instead.
    5) Neither of you look like you consider the feelings of the other posters when you write. (That’s more Jotun than you, though)

    If you think people like you and Jotun are Jack’s worst nightmare, you have it back-asswards. His worst nightmare will be the gamers who can calmly articulate themselves and put him on defense, not the extremists who can only think and talk in absolutes. If you still aren’t buying what I’m selling, I ask you this: how many times, since you started posting here, have you been the recipient of incredulous, exasperated, and often angry responses to the things you’ve written? I’m pretty sure you lead the league. Jotun has drawn some serious fire himself, and he hasn’t been posting nearly as long as you. Why is this important? WE’RE THE ONES ON YOUR SIDE.

    You think the rest of us LIKE flaming you two? I, for one, don’t, but I will make my opinion known if I get fired up. Honestly, you sound like a decent guy. I don’t see you as a bigot or anything that bad. But, if you say things that either personally offend, or make the rest of us look bad, people WILL come down on you. My main concern is that you’re sending out letters that look like some of your posts to non-gamers. We want to be taken seriously by them, and how can you expect to do that when you’re having trouble being taken seriously by us?

    That being said, I will also say that your posts have been overall a lot better than when you first started.

  10. 0
    Jotun says:

    To kurisu7885,

    Sorry, no I don’t get upset at people who love porn, but what I get upset about is that people who obsessed with porn and kill women. All I am saying is that women and men must be treated equally, we all belong to the human race.

    So, go ahead and like what you like, because I respect freedom more than hatred, terrorism and racism like Jack Thompson is promoting to the community. And this will be my last post before anything gets ugly. Just wait when Dennis sir put up the dangers of pornography on games articles. I will be waiting.

  11. 0
    kurisu7885 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Sorry Daniel, but I’m with Hayubusa and Yoshiko on this. Jotun was sterrign us off topic and sputign his own beliefs on this board. If he wants to get on his soapbox, get flamed and banned, he needs to take it to the main forums, not hte omment boards.

    And Jotun, I”m going to ask you what I ask Thompson about being a gamer. I’ve been viewing porn since I was age 18, of legal age to do so, for, for about htree years, and am now 21. Why am I not a rapist yet? Because, by your definition, I should be in prison for numerous sexual assault charges.

  12. 0
    Jotun says:

    To Yoshiko and hayabusa75,

    Hahahaha, funny thing now that you guys are using First Amendment Rights to promote pornography.

    “You should maybe lay off the media drugs, my main man. Too much propaganda is bad for the mind and soul.”

    Geez you’re a dolt, ma’am (you said you’re ma’am). News are great for you, I think dolts like you shouldn’t be playing your Counter-Strike and Bully at all, because you don’t even know difference between fantasy and reality. Gamers always look up to both, but what about you? Your mind is one-sided, and hey, how about you quit your Steam account instead, because you fail to know that the world is in a bigger trouble, and it is much bigger than you even think it is.

    “I never indicated that I loved pornography anywhere in any of my posts, or in the past 12 years of owning a computer with capable internet connection. I said your post didn’t make any sense, because your sentences quite literally did not make sense to me. I mean…”

    You can say you never loved pornography… Because I do not know where you live, you can fool everyone else, but sad thing is, you can’t fool yourself.

    “Obsession can be harmful, with anything not just pornography.”

    Oh really? People who have interests in porn are molesters, rapists or worst become more focused on misogynistical materials.

    “In all honesty, uneducated, simple-minded, ignorant, dependent, holier-than-thou individuals like yourself, Jack Thompson, Bill O’Reily, bigoted racists, sexists, supremacist and religious oppressionists are more of a harm to the internet, generations of every era and the world, not just the community, than violence, sex, drugs, and rock and roll combined.”

    Oh, you think I am one of the anti-gamers? I am a gamer too, but I also look forward to reality too. I would suggest you throw away your copy of Counter-Strike and cancel your Steam account, in fact, you don’t deserved to have the game at all and don’t even deserve to register to Steam. I hope you’re not a christian by chance, otherwise you will be pushing people to believe your imaginary so-called “Almighty God”.

    P.S. I had to agree with you there, Daniel sir.

  13. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ hayabusa75 and Yoshiko

    I think you’re being very harsh with Jotun. I know Jotun has made a few small mistakes, but he is a gamer, who doesn’t like Jack Thompson. Any gamer, who thinks Jack Thompson is a bum and a moron, is okay in my book. He’s against Jack Thompson’s lies and, for the most part, is very respectful. I like the way he comes across. It’s people like him that are Jack Thompson’s worst nightmare. A gamer, who is very respectful, and I think he’s one of us. Attacking him like that only helps anti-game activists. Remember who the problem is. Let me clarify it. Jack Thompson is the problem and Jotun is part of the solution.

  14. 0
    Yoshiko says:

    Christ. Two things: I’m sorry, Dennis for acting out. I get into a blind-rage when I put all this faith into humanity, and with a single post someone below the IQ of 40 manages to swipe it all away. One other thing: Put in an edit button.


    I sincerely apologize. A few rounds of Counterstrike have cleared my head and I’m in a much more peppier mood to debate now.

    “I don’t know why you love pornography so much, sir.”

    I never indicated that I loved pornography anywhere in any of my posts, or in the past 12 years of owning a computer with capable internet connection. I said your post didn’t make any sense, because your sentences quite literally did not make sense to me. I mean…

    [It’s funny now that IDs were to be checked before buying a game, let the parents do the job checking ESRB ratings for their kids, and you know what? we don’t need your fucking help by checking IDs on ours kids to buy video games.

    “I am sorry. I will lose my job if I sell to you.” – a clerk at a GameStop in South Center Tukwila.

    You can’t be serious? I think you’re just caring about making money rather than knowing people’s feelings. Is your job important or making peace important? Is violent games more dangerous or extreme pornography more dangerous?]

    How does that make sense to anyone?

    You also brought up the subject of pornography later on in your first post. It was unrelated to video games in every way, shape, and form so I dismissed it as “idiot giberish”, therefore I did not give it the time of day to read. I felt that I would loose precious brain cells at just the mere glance of it.

    Finally, I am not a “sir”. I am a 17 year-old female living in Arizona. You have no right to make assumptions about me, or anyone else on this website. You’re judgmental personality will bring you nothing but sneers and a lack of respect by any intellectual.

    Now to dismantle the rest of your post.

    “But take a good look at reality. People who are obsessed with pornography will subject to rape or even worse, kill women. Not only that, they will commit suicide by strangulation just to get this so-called “sexual orgasms”.”

    I don’t know what plane of reality you’re living on. Obsession can be harmful, with anything not just pornography. But let’s take a trip back in time to- oh say, the beginning of humankind. Nevermind, let’s not because then we could possibly get into a religious arguement and we’re already far off topic. Let’s go to the middle ages. They didn’t have pornography back then. There were still whores, there were still rapes- More rapes back then than today more than likely. It at one point was a custom to rape a conquered village, town, what have you, ‘s women, children as well.

    Do not blame acts of violence of any sort that have been going on for -centuries- onto one specific medium. If it weren’t for the adult entertainment industry you would have never even seen the internet used as a conventional tool today. Educate yourself, sir or ma’am, because I can assure you that the sting of being one-up’d by a little girl over the internet is just a slight pinch of what you will feel when put up against a board of intellectuals.

    “Don’t believe me? I think you should get on by reading the news and lay off your pornographic materials (if you have though), pornographic in my opinion, is a harm to the cyberworld and to our community.”

    You should maybe lay off the media drugs, my main man. Too much propaganda is bad for the mind and soul.

    In all honesty, uneducated, simple-minded, ignorant, dependent, holier-than-thou individuals like yourself, Jack Thompson, Bill O’Reily, bigoted racists, sexists, supremacist and religious oppressionists are more of a harm to the internet, generations of every era and the world, not just the community, than violence, sex, drugs, and rock and roll combined.

    Swing that judgmental pendulum the other way and take a good look at yourself. Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    That rock and roll part was a joke for anyone not sharp enough to catch it…

    With love,

  15. 0
    Yoshiko says:


    What the fuck.

    For one, SIR. I’m a MA’AM. A Ma’am who isn’t legally able to purchase or view pornographic materials. I also have a boyfriend who keeps any need for watching other people have sex at bay.

    SO THANKS, SIR, for being a judgemental absolute dumbass without a shred of cognitive thought.

    So-called “Sexual Orgasm”? Are you a fucking virgin, or are you just disappointed that your shit doesn’t work correctly?

    Even worse kill women, huh? Never mind that men are murdered too, even on the occasion raped. It’s only women we should care most about.

    Listen, you prude, ignorant piece of shit. What I said earlier had NOTHING to do with sex. AT ALL. I said your two cents didn’t make any fucking sense, and it didn’t. Thanks for proving that with your response. I suggest you get out there and get laid you fucking nazi.

    And thanks, this is the most I’ve ever cussed at anyone over the damn internet before. I really didn’t think people were -THIS- retarded.

  16. 0
    Jotun says:

    To Yoshiko,

    I don’t know why you love pornography so much, sir. But take a good look at reality. People who are obsessed with pornography will subject to rape or even worse, kill women. Not only that, they will commit suicide by strangulation just to get this so-called “sexual orgasms”.

    Don’t believe me? I think you should get on by reading the news and lay off your pornographic materials (if you have though), pornographic in my opinion, is a harm to the cyberworld and to our community.

  17. 0
    Weatherlight ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    My comment was in half agreement with you. I just don’t think it is fair that in the “Sting” they will send someone who looks old enough and lies about their age. I see all game stores will have to enforce policies like pick’n’save liquor department where they card everyone in your group regardless of age.

    My comment about the court case is the fact that it is crap. Unless they conduct these “stings” fairly it will end up costing taxpayers money. Right now people conducting these “stings” are happy because they can do whatever they want and it only costs the game industry money to counter the bad publicity.

    @ everyone
    I think we can agree
    There needs to be set standards put in place for these “stings”. So that we don’t have a bunch of vigilante law makers spewing out bogus statistics.

    The current rating system is inadequate for a law to be made governing the sales. I applaud a number of retailers for setting their own policies. However, constantly attacking retailers only cause’s problems.

    More time and money should be spent setting up a working system instead of these stupid “stings”.

  18. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Sooorrryyy for just getting a Xbox this year er in 06 *L*
    A good or great game is timeless….but…I been trying to forget Halo 2 SP since I finished it >>
    the game is ok and all the control scheme is what ticks me off the most.

  19. 0
    Terminator44 says:

    Interesting results. For 12-year olds, only 2 out of 7 were able to get the games, but for 15 and 16 year olds it became more common. Probably beacause they look old enough and the clerks believed no one would freak out if a 15-year old got Halo 2. Let’s be perfectly frank: Is one or two years really going to make a difference?

    Also, an FTC study already showed that even though enforcement is not perfect for the ESRB (though they are honestly trying), the MIAA’s enforcement is almost non-existant. If this sting was conducted for R-rated films, I’d assure you that the results would be far more embarassing.

    Another thing, only once or twice was GTA in that survey. Most of the others were “lighter” games like Halo 2. Yes, these games have the same rating, but it’s unfair to group them together. They are completly different in their content.

    Conclusion: This hardly justifies the need for legislation, and even with this survey, Dickerson is sure to fail in court if she tries it again. The best thing to do is to try more productive ways to improve enforcement at the retail level.

  20. 0
    Weatherlight ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I am sorry I have to laugh at this sting attempt. First I see that a 15yr old girl has relitivly no problem buying a “violent” game. I wondering why she had more sucsess then the 15 or 12 year old boy?

    Then look at the games the 12 year old boy bought, Counter-Strike and Halo. Those in no way compare to Grand theft Auto or any of the other games on the list.

    I am a bit shocked that EB would take the kids word, but he lied about his age and probably looked old enough.

    For all the crap that people give GameStop, and Wal-Mart. They are not the ones to sell games and movies to people underage. No offence to the guy at EB Games, you should have known better.

    The important thing that they discovered is what I already knew. If you’re not old enough get your friends sister to buy the game for you at a non-gamming store.

  21. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    That’s why when I participated with my nephew in that NIMF secret shopper survey, we picked games that were clearly rated M for a reason. I can’t remember the most common one, but the cover had bloody lettering all over it, and a guy standing there with a blood dripping knife, and I think the ESRB descripters were many (violence, blood & gore, strong language, drug use, nudity, etc). We figured if they were going to nail him for trying to buy an M game, it would be most likely if the game was clearly not for kids.


    I’ve found (in Canada at least), of those who posted policies at the till, Walmart was the least likely to actually enforce them. From my own experience anyway.

  22. 0
    JacksonW says:

    I’m 15 and I struck five out of five at the main shops here in my hometown, Helena, Montana, when I wanted to get Halo 2. The guys seemed on their toes for secret shoppers, which I wasn’t, and almost looked at us like we’d be the ones they’d lose their jobs over if they did anything more than let us look at the cases. It strikes me odd that my 100% failure rate was unusual.

    Blockbuster isn’t a big “game store”, I haven’t even stepped foot in one for nearly five years. I’d assume they’d have lax standards for the sale of games.

  23. 0
    MaskedPixelante ( User Karma: -1 ) says:

    Yeah, Blockbuster doesn’t check ID it seems. I was able to purchase Dead Rising, Half-Life 1 Anthology, and Jade Empire from them and didn’t get carded. Now, I’m 19, and I probably look it, but this is one of those things that the anti-gaming giants will get SUPER critical on, maybe even referring to it as a failing of the ESRB. They dont need any more trouble than most people claim they have.

  24. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    On the other hand, BB was the only place I’ve ever been told “you are aware that movie is rated R, right?”.

    Sin City, go figure. 😀

  25. 0
    Muscrat says:

    Hmm well here i Australia selling to minors isnt really an issue.

    When I was 9 – 12 I bought the Soldier of Fourtune games (one of the most voilent FPSs out there) and I was never told that I was too young.

    Come to think of it I was only asked once when I was going to buy Mafia… And i was 13 at the time. Even when I bought GTA3 no one cared.

    Still I dont see why violent video games is such a hot topic. Seems like jsut another scape-goat. Films nowdays are much worse. I mean cmon compare Wolf Creek, or The Hills have Eyes to GTA, Resident Evil ect.

    I mean Ive been playing voilent games since I was 6, starting with Doom, Quake, Carmageddon, so on and so fourth.
    It hasent screwed me up one bit……

    Now I support the ratings, and think parents should follow them but, Its the user not the developer. Adults like video games aswell, and like movies there should be ones that are suited for there age bracket.
    Anti game larikins just cant seem to hack that there children arent supposed to be playing violent games, and its there responsability to see what there playing. Hell the internet in general is worse than video games….

  26. 0
    Bissel ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It looks like, for the most part, the actual game stores asked for ID or whatnot, whereas the other stores – toy stores, media stores, etc– had more of an issue with it. I wonder how they’d do if they tried getting a rated R movie….

  27. 0
    Phantom says:

    Yeah. I don’t think they really second-thought the fact that they were selling the game to a girl. I’ve also never really understood why Halo scored an M rating, while Call of Duty is only a T.

    Still, a rather shoddy study for one to say, “Kids can buy violent games more than half the time!” The reality is that GIRLS can buy violent games more than half the time. Boys get shut down the majority of the time, and in one case the kid lied about his age to secure the purchase.

  28. 0
    Jordan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Movie theaters are worse, I’ve seen R-rated movies on my own plenty of times (i’m 19) but I was only asked for ID once, for Clerks 2 but at that same theater i saw many R-rated movies without being asked for ID.

  29. 0
    Jatone says:

    Also (damn no edit blah!)
    “This was not intended to be scientific. We just conducted a simple check to see if underage kids can buy M-rated games.”

    You needed to check to see if underaged kids could buy M-rated games? Are you guys moronic? OF COURSE THEY CAN lets go look at any study already done and you have your answer bravo waste of time. Honestly whats the reasoning behind this? That kids could buy games? We already knew that. Well if you can’t waste my money one way why not another.

  30. 0
    Jatone says:

    @ people pointing out he lied,
    Umm duh? How does that shift the blame from the cashier to the kid doing the sting? Of course kids will lie about their age to get a game, if the cashier had to ask he should of asked for id not taken the kids word. its his own fault.

    Although…. I found these comments to be funny or ironic,
    “We can’t sell to you this time of year. This is the time of year when they try to catch us selling to kids.”

    “Ready to have a party and shoot some people?” when said by the female cashier. Not something I’d expect her to say.

    Though I do find it interesting that more females than males could get away with buying M rated games. Probably thought they were buying as a gift maybe? Thats something to look into though.

  31. 0
    Weatherlight ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Jabrwock
    The walmarts that I have seen in the states are very strict. Mostly Milwaukee and Waukeshaw County in Wisconsin I know are on their toes 24/7. But they have frequent visits from the local workers unions trying to get them in trouble.

    Also, a numbe rof my freinds work there and if the managers catch you not checking ID for EVERYONE. They will fire you.

  32. 0
    barfo ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Its retarded that there is so much stink about such a dumb thing as retailer enforcement of the ratings. Who really cares if some 15 year olds are playing halo? Hell most 12 year olds would be fine with it. Frankly I dont really think its that big a deal if they are playing GTA, though individual readiness would tend to vary (heck there are a lot of immature tweener internetz twepz). Ratings enforcement shoul be done by the parents, anyways: when my daughter is a teen (many years away) I dont want some nanny state telling me i have to go along and buy what games she wants to play for herself, thats an invasion of her rights as a person to be able to spend her allowance or summer job money etc, and it will be contrary to the other messages i would be trying ot teach her at that stage about how to be a responsible money handler and how to budget yourself out in terms of entertainment expenses. I just dont understand why it needs to be done by the retailers when really ultimately its up to the parent to decide. Games arent like movies where its a short two hour thing that you do completely away from the home (and could easily sneak out and see one even after their parents forbid it). If somebody forbids their kid from playign san andreas, and the kid still manages to buy it the parent would have plenty of time to catch them playing it (its like a 20-50 hour game) and confiscate the game, etc. If the parent is unable to realize that their kid is playing that, or unable to control their kid into following the ‘rules of the house’ not to play M rated games, then frankly the parent kid-relationship probably has a lot more problems than just preventing the kids from being able to buy the games in the first place without asking for a permission slip from mommy is going to be able to solve. Frankly if you cant monitor your kid to the level to check if they are engaging in prohibited behaviours, and/or your kid willfully disobeys you when you spell ou prohibited behaviours (on a regular basis, i mean all teenagers its goign to happen some thats just a natural part of adolescence), then you should be bloody thrilled if the behaviour is limited to just buying and playing an M rated game, and not a whole host of other problem behaviours like underage sex, drinking, drug use, petty crime, gang activity, truancy, etc (you know the sort of risk activities that actually lead to life choices that pose a real physical harm to kids development). If you can’t control your kid from buying and playing an M rated game that you tell them not to without the help of the government/retailers, then how the hell are you going to prevent them from buying and smoking a bunch of pot from their local dealer, or from knocking up their girlfriend when she is 15? Cause i can absolutely guarantee you that that the friendly dope peddler is not checking IDs, and little Johnny’s little johnny doesnt pay any attention to content ratings before diving into gameplay.

  33. 0
    PanicButton42 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It is not unfair to group Halo 2 with the GTA series for the purposes of this “sting.” The whole purpose was to see if underage individuals could purchase M-rated video games. For purposes of enforcing the rating system, it is not up to the individual selling the game as to whether the game deserves its M-rating.

    Also, as for, “…is 1 or 2 years really going to make a difference?” Once again, that is not a judgement call for the person selling the game to make. In my opinion, 1 or 2 years are not very likely to make any difference, but it is not my call either.

    The best defense for the ESRB is for these stores to enforce these age guidelines. Since the Hot Coffee debacle many critics have pointed their fingers at the ESRB and at the rating system and have claimed it is broken so that they may institute their “Perfect” rating systems, so that they may regulate the Video Game industry.

    The ESRB is doing a good job, but it needs everyone to do their part to minimize critics like Mary Lou Dickerson.

  34. 0
    Daniel says:

    When the clerk said, “Ready to have a party and shoot some people?” He meant FAKE. The game, Halo 2, is FAKE. It’s a FAKE FANTASY WORLD!!!! No one is really dying. These idiots are acting like it’s real. It’s NOT REAL and there’s NOTHING wrong with having a LAN party and killing some computer code on a screen!!!! I’ve had it with this CRAP!!!!! It makes me SICK!!!! I get FURIOUS every time someone attacks violent content in games like this. I AM SICK OF THIS BS!!!!!! It’s CRAP and no one should listen to them. These games don’t teach people anything about how to kill.

    There is a big difference between holding a controller and killing some FAKE characters on a screen and holding a real gun and killing real people. One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other and the theories of these anti-game actvist lying MONSTERS are unscientific, unfounded and untrue. To all you anti-game MORONS out there I have a message for you. STOP IT!!!!!!!

  35. 0
    SJR says:

    This statement is posted from an employee of Left Behind Games on behalf of Troy Lyndon, our Chief Executive Officer.

    There has been in incredible amount of MISINFORMATION published in the media and in online blogs here and elsewhere.

    Pacifist Christians and other groups are taking the game material out of context to support their own causes. There is NO “killing in the name of God” and NO “convert or die”. There are NO “negative portrayals of Muslims” and there are NO “points for killing”.

    Please play the game demo for yourself (to at least level 5 of 40) to get an accurate perspective, or listen to what CREDIBLE unbiased experts are saying after reviewing the game at http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/controversy.htm

    Then, we’d love to hear your feedback as an informed player.

    The reality is that we’re receiving reports everyday of how this game is positively affecting lives by all who play it.

    Thank you for taking the time to be a responsible blogger.

  36. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ Yoshiko

    Selling violent games to a minor is legal. I don’t think that people, who sell violent games to minors, lose their jobs all that often. In 1999, I bought a few M rated games and no one cared. I think that there is nothing wrong with it because I did it, and I’m no hypocrite. People need to learn that there is a difference between fantasy and reality and, therefore, there’s nothing wrong with it. M rated games are good and have nothing to do with health.

    The only way a game could hurt someone’s health is if the player eats and plays all day. Then that would be unhealthy, but violent images on a screen have no impact on anybody and have nothing to do with physical or mental health. M rated games are good and shouldn’t be attacked like this.

  37. 0
    MaskedPixelante ( User Karma: -1 ) says:

    Yeah, that sounds like something that kids would do, to lie about their age to get what they want. It’s like those kids who get caught looking at porn, claim that it came preloaded on their computers, and get off scot free. It’s sort of natural for kids to wanna do whatever it takes to get out of trouble, so why not do it to get what they want. It’s a serious issue that needs to be dealt with, as this is the kind of thing that the Anti-Gaming Giants focus right in on.

  38. 0
    SolarPumpkin says:

    @ MaskedPixelante

    I think you may be cutting kids short. Your saying children have a natural intent to cause trouble. I don’t it’s that kids want to get off scot free its that they are afraid that people will know what they have done. The behind the back talk is much worse then anything a parent can do. Let me tell you I had some first hand experience with that a few years back.

  39. 0
    jakethe8lf ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It’s ugly this day and age that you have to betray someone’s trust just to make them look bad. You can’t trust anyone these days, it’s disgusting.

  40. 0
    Yoshiko says:

    When I was working at GameStop 04-05 I always check for ID, if the customer gave me shit for it I told him it was store policy and that I’d lose my job if I sold a game to a minor.

    Besides that, “Ready to have a party and shoot some people?” sounds like a sarcastic remark I’d make to anyone, parents included. I remember saying “Gonna beat up some hookers?” to a kid trying to buy GTA. He looked happy, then when I told him to bring his parents in to buy it for him he was singing a different tune.

    I’m not seeing why the conclusion of “underage girls can buy M games, boys can’t” is being drawn. If any one refused to show their ID when I asked them I told them to GTFO of my store, in kinder words of course.

  41. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    So thats why halo 2 SP sucks its made for laning 😛
    no bad LOL


    all in all the ESRB is doing a ok job,as long as they keep doing it all is well,now only if we could say the same about the MIAAs job…..

  42. 0
    Yoshiko says:


    Ever worked for GS? It use to be great, before it become a fortune 500 company and the corporate drones took over.

    It’s not enforced by law, sure, but like movie ratings it’s a policy. I didn’t refuse to sell them to minors because of policy alone, though. I’m just the biggest female asshole you’ll ever meet and like the disappointed whimpers as they slowly trudged out of the store.

    “I think that there is nothing wrong with it because I did it, and I’m no hypocrite.”

    I eat babies, I think there’s nothing wrong with it because I did it and I’m no hypocrite.

    Just to show you how ridiculous that sounded.

    “People need to learn that there is a difference between fantasy and reality and, therefore, there’s nothing wrong with it.”

    A difference between fantasy and reality doesn’t automatically mean there’s nothing wrong with it. I agree with those statements separately in that elder generations need to realize that everyone born after 1970 isn’t retarded and, unless there’s a mental condition involved, can distinguish the difference between fantasy and reality. However, that doesn’t make everything OK. I have no problems with M rated games, or any games for that matter, unless they’re especially ridiculous and/or inappropriate (I’m looking at you, Extreme Beach Volley Ball), however some of these games just simply aren’t for minors.

    “M rated games are good and have nothing to do with health.”

    That’s a broad statement. I’m going to go ahead and dismiss this because you sound like you don’t know how to argue, or link things together with facts.

    “The only way a game could hurt someone’s health is if the player eats and plays all day. Then that would be unhealthy,”

    You’re starting to make sense.

    “but violent images on a screen have no impact on anybody and have nothing to do with physical or mental health.

    Wow. You are… You make me ashamed to be a gamer. I never knew anyone could be this… simple minded I suppose is the only thing I can come up with. To say it has absolutely nothing to do with physical/mental health is just wishful thinking. It certainly doesn’t have the impact that Thompson and other extremists are trying to brainwash the population with, but to say it has NOTHING to do with any sort of health is just fallacy.

    “M rated games are good and shouldn’t be attacked like this.”

    Again with the M games are good. God, are you a caveman? I don’t know about you, but I sure thought Blitz: The League was a shitty M game.

    Games in general shouldn’t be attacked by unintelligent, one-track minded individuals like Clinton and Thompson, not just M-rated games- buy they’re going to be. Just as dime-novels, movies and music were before your time. Don’t worry, Thompson only has like, what? 5 more years until he croaks? We’ll be ok =P

  43. 0
    Jotun says:

    Media bias, I presume?

    It’s funny now that IDs were to be checked before buying a game, let the parents do the job checking ESRB ratings for their kids, and you know what? we don’t need your fucking help by checking IDs on ours kids to buy video games.

    “I am sorry. I will lose my job if I sell to you.” – a clerk at a GameStop in South Center Tukwila.

    You can’t be serious? I think you’re just caring about making money rather than knowing people’s feelings. Is your job important or making peace important? Is violent games more dangerous or extreme pornography more dangerous?

    I tell you the answers, being a peace maker is more important than just caring about yourself, wanting to be a rich guy, buy a mansion or a condominum, these things won’t last, my friend. And extreme pornography is more dangerous than video games, son! Because Ted Bundy as a kid is obsessed with pornography, and guess what? When years goes by as he gets older, he rapes and kills women, and here’s a interesting fact, believe it or not, he targets only women and not men.

    And Jane Longhurst is killed by Graham Coutts, why? Reason here being is Graham Coutts is obsessed with extreme pornography and frequents to a extreme pornographic website called Necrobabes (I would not want any people to go), on strangling and asphixating women. That’s what I called sick.

    So think about it yourself, is it money important or being yourself and be happy to others is important, you yourself should know.

    And for the last words, money can’t buy you life, money can’t buy time and most of all, although money for some can buy happiness (travelling), it cannot buy your happiness if you are just plain obsessed with money.

    That’s my two cents.

  44. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ Yoshiko

    I didn’t mean that if a game is rated M, it’s automatically good. Some M rated games suck like Fight Club. I guess I was vague, but what I mean is that violent games aren’t evil, as some people say they are. I know some games suck, but that’s not the issue here. I am totally against the idea that violent images on a screen have any effect or power over anybody because it’s fantasy. I know doing anything in excess is bad and video games are obviously no exception. However, I don’t think that seeing violent images on a screen can drive someone crazy. I’ve seen hundreds of thousands of violent images and I am not crazy. They haven’t effected me at all. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

  45. 0
    LightWarrior ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I really don’t feel comfertable with these secrect shopper things.

    They always seem to make it sound like they are trying to enforce the ESRB as law.

  46. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Hello, Daniel #2? How did pornography get into this? Who are you to judge what the female clerk’s motivation to say what she did is? You can’t sit there on a high horse and make some half-cocked judgement on peace vs. someone’s job! It’s not like her boss told her to sell the M games to everyone or face termination, just the opposite! Let’s put your job and livelihood on the line and see how your moral convictions stand up.

    Your analogy to Ted Bundy, while undermining your credibility, doubled me up with laughter. He targeted women and not men, huh? What a revelation! Because I’m sure that if it wasn’t for pornography, he would’ve been raping men instead!

    BTW, Graham Coutts was into sexual perversion five years prior to the porn in question.

    Bottom line, your claim that pornography causes rape and perversion is just as nonsensical and unsupported as Jack Thompson’s claim that video game violence causes crime.

    Oh, has anyone here seen that great skinflick, Schindler’s Fist? Exemplary camerawork, I tell you. =)

  47. 0
    Daniel says:

    @ Yoshiko

    I thought of one more thing. You think I don’t know how to argue? How about this. Going back to the health issue, it appears to me that you were saying that violent images on a screen are harmful to health in some way. The word health means that the body works and that all bodily functions are working properly. Let’s look at physical health. Violent images on a screen don’t damage physical health because they don’t make people fat, they don’t raise cholesterol levels, they don’t plug up arteries and they don’t make people sick in any way, shape, or form. They also don’t increase the risk of a life threatening illness such as a heartattack or stroke. Please tell me how do violent images on a screen hurt physical health? Mcdonald’s hurts physical health, not violent images on a screen.

    Mental health means that the head isn’t doing anything weird like making the person hear and see things that aren’t there. I’ve seen many violent images on a screen and I don’t hear and see things that aren’t there. I also don’t need a stray jacket because I don’t go crazy like a madman. They also don’t make people retarded. Please tell me how do violent images on a screen cause mental problems? Drugs destroy mental health, not violent images on a screen.

  48. 0
    Weatherlight ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Jatone
    The issue of the kid lying about his age does not free the checker of store rules requiring them to check ID, however enforcing the ESRB is not a law and the checker is not legally responsible for selling inappropriate material to a minor.

    In my area the police conducted a number of “stings” to see if the local gas stations would sell cigarettes to people underage. When the person didn’t have ID and lied about their age, and the clerk sold the cigarettes to them. The police came in and gave the clerk a ticket, the gas stations then sued the city for “hiring minors to conduct an illegal act”. The closing point that got the gas stations off the hook, was that the kids were 17 looked older and lied about there age when asked. The city ended up dropping all the fines to all the gas stations hit by the “sting” and paying for layers.

    For some reason I see this happening when it come to video game sales in the near future.

  49. 0
    Jotun says:

    To hayabusa75,

    “BTW, Graham Coutts was into sexual perversion five years prior to the porn in question.”

    Hold on there, sir. Calm your nerves down. This statement is a total hogwash, the police found pornographic materials in Graham Coutts house.

    It appears to me sir, that you loved pornography. And I won’t mind, because freedom of speech is what I go by, but I for one hates pornography and condemns it.

    No threat being imposed on you sir, rant on me if you want.

  50. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    I know that, I’m saying that he was into weird shit prior to accessing the materials. It was one of the reasons his original sentence was overturned and they’re retrying him under manslaughter. The sicko liked porn, he wasn’t a sicko because he watched porn.

    You can think pornography is morally reprehensible if you want, but don’t use this forum as your own soapbox to preach the evils of it. Stay on topic, please. And for the record, your diatribe on porn was way more of a rant than my reaction to it, thank you very much.

  51. 0
    Jotun says:

    To hayabusa75,

    Thanks to you sir.

    “The sicko liked porn, he wasn’t a sicko because he watched porn.”

    I know that, I am the one who said that Ted Bundy and Graham Coutts were obsessed with porn. And I am not using this as a soapbox, because nowadays we are living in a modern technology and the world is undergoing a big change, much bigger than you think it is. Porn not only comes in movies like “Clockwork Orange”, “Don’t Answer the Phone!” and “John Carpenter’s Halloween”. Games too, like “Lula 3D” or even “Leisure Suit Larry” and not to forget the most controversial 2D game, “Custer’s Revenge”.

    I hope you understand this, my good sir.

  52. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    You ARE using this as a soapbox because you took the topic of Dickerson’s sting operation and non sequitured it into pornography. Porn has nothing to do with the topic at hand, because Dickerson’s sting wasn’t specifically targeted at M-rated games with sexual content. If GP does a piece on sex in video games, post to your heart’s content, as will I.

    I’m going to stop now before Dennis gets mad at me.

  53. 0
    Calvinball says:

    Some games at my local game store are starting to get big stickers on them saying “Are you over 18?”. That might almost make it idiot proof but I have faith in the idiots.

  54. 0
    Brokenscope ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Look the whole sexual liberation vs sexual conservatism things goes nowhere. It just causes tempers to flare then religion gets pulled into it. Lets just not go there.

  55. 0
    Yoshiko says:

    @ Daniel

    Physical health? Not directly, no. Mental health? Sorry, not everyone is you. I haven’t been affected by violent images myself either in a negative impact, or so I’d like to believe, but that doesn’t mean that others aren’t. You can’t use the excuse that “This hasn’t happened to me, so it doesn’t happen to anyone else” that logic is flawed, and doesn’t stand up.

    Images on a screen, paper, anywhere have a mental effect on the brain. Negative, positive and neutral. I’m not trying to say Counterstrike is going to make someone of any gender or age get up the next morning thinking “Hey. I’m going to go shoot up my school”, but to say that images have absolutely no effect is too broad and incorrect. I know what you’re probably trying to say, but you need to be more careful with your words and really know the subject before you start conversing about it.

  56. 0
    jatone says:

    Where did I say the fact he lied freed the cashier from blame? I’m pretty sure I stated in no uncertain terms it was his own fualt.

    “Umm duh? How does that shift the blame from the cashier to the kid doing the sting? Of course kids will lie about their age to get a game, if the cashier had to ask he should of asked for id not taken the kids word. its his own fault.”

    See? I said the blame was not shifted because the kid lied. As for that court case its complete BS. The cashiers deserved to be ticketed and they should not have got off scott free.

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