February 1, 2007
This morning's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has coverage of what it termed a "raucous" debate between anti-game activist Jack Thompson and author Gerard Jones:... the crowd zeroed in on Mr. Thompson for his much-vilified views on youth and the video game industry. Mr. Thompson said he is a strong supporter of the First Amendment and does not seek to ban violent video games... He only wants to keep them out of the hands of children...
But Mr. Jones, 49, said the attention given to violence in video games today could be just part of the "cycle in junk culture" that's been ongoing for 150 years. It included dime novels, television, movies, rap music and other new forms of entertainment that draw attention and quickly become popular...
Mr. Jones and Mr. Thompson agree that because the video game industry has declined to cooperate with new initiatives and legislation to prevent children from purchasing mature games, there is more likely to be a single catastrophic event that will doom the industry...
About a dozen audience members questioned the speakers about their views, and although most were antagonistic toward Mr. Thompson, he got the most applause of the night when he criticized today's generation, calling them "the most self-absorbed, egocentric generation he's ever seen...
"Your generation has got to get over itself," he said.
Comments
As previously stated by many people, Jack put on his people face and stopped acting like a raving lunatic for long enough to be considered a normal human being.
Kind of like how you'll go to work and put up with the most retarded questions and complaints from customers, and inside you just want to bite off their heads, but you smile, be as polite as you can, and help those damn retards.
But, I can only imagine what the debate would've been like if he pulled the same stuff he did on G4tv.
Also, given JT's behavior for the past few years I doubt anyone actually went up and told him how cool they thought he was. I just get the feeling that anyone who apologized to JT was probably paid off. After his years of pixelante BS and spitting int he faces of games, I don't thinka nyone would be that quick to say, "Hey JT! You're a really awesome guy, after all!"
It just doesn't work that way.
As for keeping violent videogames out of the hands of children, I agree. Little kids don't need blood and gore on their minds. Thing is... that sort of thing is a rare occurance and, further more, and issue of parental negligence. It's not something that needs to be attacked with bill after failed bill.
Which brings back the ever-popular question.. why is JT doing what he's doing? There's no need to waste time and money all across the nation just for the 'keep violent games away from children' ideal.
He's already proven that he's out to do much more than that. He wants to destroy the ESRB, then the industry all in the hopes that he'll be some sort of hero. One calm debate doesn't suddenly make him a good person.
i know you didn't mention religion and i never said you did, I was just using that as an example to back up my point (although i probably should've picked something else for an example).
Oh and you said that what parents teach us is how we'll act yet in your first post, you said that kids become emo when they have bad parents, funny I never read about there being a large supplies of emos in the 70s, i always thought the 'outbreak' was semi-recent.
Here's the problem with JT, he forgets the lying is a sin.
I love the fact that he calls gaming a "waste of time". I wonder, does that mean that those generations that sat and watched TV, or listened to the radio, or music for hours upon hours in previous times, were they wasting time as well?
the simple fact is, Jack Thompson has not fully matured yet, he may have the physical body of an adult, but that far from makes him of emotional maturity.
I might upload the first part of the debate and leave it at that. It's about an hour in length.
Here's the thing though: Each generation learns from the one before it. We learn how to act because of how our parents taught us. Our parents were taught how to act because of how their parents taught them. Granted, there are many exceptions to this rule, the fact remains that a majority of our actions are based on what we were taught.
True, MySpace and iPods are becoming one of the most popular things in this day and age, but the thing is, they're being marketed at a newer generation so in order for it to sound appealing, they need to make it look like everyone and their brother already has it. People who constantly make the same mistakes over and over have had one of two things happen: 1. they're faced with something they were never taught before-hand, or 2. their parents did not do enough to educate them in how they should deal with it. For example: there are many more gangs and drug-dealers nowadays because their parents did not educate them, and instead were taught by someone who was already caught up in it. People are becoming more gothic and emo because their parents were brought up the right way and thus they don't bring up their children the right way, and those children will end up making the same mistake.
If this generation that you and I live in is self-absorbed, then the only conclusion is that the generation that our parents came from were also self-absorbed, or something happened that shifted it so that they did become self absorbed, hell, it could've even happened with our generation (meaning something happened that made this generation become so self-absorbed). However, if parents cared about their children and how they behaved, they would take a more active role in their children's lives.
EDIT: I meant to say because their parents were NOT brought up the right way.
Sorry
The laws and regulations that keep piling up are like the frog in boiling water; you dont realsie whats happening until its too late. You cant get in the pot in the first place.
"I would hate for someone to do something to me or my family because of my actions, especailly the school"
Oh, get over it. Seriously. You acted like an idiot and we were all embarassed that you served in any capacity to represent us as gamers, but for fuck's sake... you're not that important. It's not like you're some figurehead of the pro-games movement and your behavior has any lasting impact.
"Unfortuantely for you guys, the tape will never see the internet as I’m not going to be uploading it anywhere, ever."
Your screw up strikes me as the single most self-centered aspect of the debate. Not Jack's posturing, not his claims of victory, none of his usual ego-stroking comes close to your "I'm oh so relevent yet made a fool of myself and the world will never be the same" attitude.
And now you feel some egocentric need to destroy any evidence of your behavior so future generations won't bear witness to your folly. Sorry, you're not that important.
Next time you vow to do something, follow through. You were on this site promising to get video of the event, to provide us all a useful service, and people were relying on you to come through. You let us down when you acted like an idiot at the debate, and again when you recanted your promise to upload the video because you're too ashamed of yourself.
I for one don't care about your ego. You've made that the central issue, as though the debate was merely a vehicle to showcase your self-importance. Fine, whatever.
You fail.
I'm just glad I don't have to hear about it any more.
We've come to that conclusion many times ourselves. And for anyone who grew up beyond comics books, it'd be like "we almost destroyed one free thought outlet but missed, we'll get this one." Or something like that. Apparently Jack doesn't want a happy america, he wants everyone to grow up, get through school, get a job and be miserable like he is. I can't imagine he enjoys actual work much since it seems he tries to avoid it.
What generation is he talking about? I think his generation needs to get over itself more. They sold out.
No problem. My wildly overactive imagination can replay the event for me. Jack is Jack and will always will be Jack. You realized the mistake and know what to better if you get in the same situation again.
As far as the bring up the wikiquote up, he will most likely say something like "This debate isn't about me." or ignore it. After all his wikiquote would show the public the face he only shows the gamers, the gaming press, the gaming industry, and the people who disagree with him, which he doesn't want.
Posting from home.
- Warren Lewis
What you did not see is that I said a MAJORITY of what we do is taken from what we've learned from our parents, NOT ALL OF IT. There's always a random factor that can change the whole outlook and ending along someone's life. I also never stated that parents are the only single blame. I merely said that what they teach us is how we'll act.
And please, don't try to add anything that was never mentioned before hand (where did I even hint at religion in my post?), messing around with what someone said can lead to nasty endings.
Considering that I was made mention of in both my schools paper as well as the Post-Gazette, without a name. I am somewhat relieved. I would hate for someone to do something to me or my family because of my actions, especailly the school (I'm paying alot of money for an education here guys)
Also on the subject of the video tape and when it will be posted.......it won't.
According to a friend the campus television station's copy of the video was messed up and wasn't able to record properly, leaving mine to be the only tape of the event.
Unfortuantely for you guys, the tape will never see the internet as I'm not going to be uploading it anywhere, ever. I will be bulk erasing the tapes as well as I need them for other projects and I wish to have no records of what happened be accessable to anyone.
Why? Well because I have no reason to martyr myself with my actions like that. I want to protect my own identity, privacy, and any recurring shame from having any sort of copy of that "event" in any form. I just want to be able to forget this and move on with my life as peacefully as possible.
I can understand that some of you might not agree with why I'm doing this. But hopefully, some of you will and will respect my decision not to do this.
I think Jack's proven time and time again that he doesn't need silly things like "research"... =\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Manta
Perhaps before Mr. Thompsons lambasts an entire set of people, he might bother doing his research.
Someone bringing a PSP and a copy of GTA Vice City Stories to school.
@Pokemaster2185 The second I read what you said I got an image of Phoenix Wright putting Thompson on the spot.
This has the be the longest 15 damn minutes of my life. Someone toss a tomato or drop him through a trapdoor, already!
"If jack can handle himself in a debate why on earth did he make himself out as a frantic wild person and insulted us? Probably because he wanted us to underestimate him (and it worked)."
No, it's just the same old annoying two faced act Jack does. When he's going to be under public scrutiny, he acts like a decent, normal human being, with not that bad goals. When communicating over the internet, he feels as though he can drop common decency, and constantly bait people. It's not some strategy to make us underestimate him, it's just the difference between his actions in public and private.
An attempt to get us to underestimate him wouldn't make sense anyways, as the ones he needs to underestimate him are the law firms retained by the ESRB and video games publishers, not us. Where he is being deceptive is the claim that he just wants to keep violent games out of the hands of children. If you actually look at his statements other than the ones from the debate, what he wants is to get rid of violent games entirely. Not to mention he appears to consider anyone under the age of 20 to be a child, and has a very low opinion of the intelligence of "children".
Then of course is his efforts to place blame on video games for the violence of severely abused or disturbed people, and press huge lawsuits based on that. To give you a comparison, David Walsh, and Joseph Lieberman would like to keep violent games out of the hands of minors, though they wouldn't exactly shed any tears if they vanished entirely. Do you see them constantly blaming games for high profile murders and proceeding to sue the publishers of said games for large sums of money? No, because they're reasonable sane people that recognize the need for civility and compromise. Jack on the other hand refuses to compromise, and as we've seen here and on various TV appearances only feels the need to be civil when he's "on stage" so to speak.
I was surprised when you told me your age! In your posts, you always came off as very knowledgeable and worldy, suggesting to me that you were closer to around my age (hence your screen name). Right there you've instantly made hash of Jack's argument that anyone under 18 can't think for themselves. I feel sorry for his kid. Life at home for him must be something akin to living in North Korea. :(
Anyway, I think pretty much every generation has been accused of the one before it of being arrogant and self-absorbed. The only thing that's changed is how they express it. You mentioned Myspace and iPods; technology has simply given this generation new means of self-expression that weren't available before. Everyone in their youth I think goes through a period of selfishness. It's part of growing up. And the older generation either can't or won't acknowledge their own "youthful indescretions." Today it's MySpace, iPods and PS3s. Yesterday it was Mohawks and nose rings, and before that it was Pet Rocks, and before that it was Acid and Rock n' Roll. The wheel turns.
As I said here earlier, Jack Thompson is a fine example of someone suffering from an acute case of Old Fartism. He, like some old people, live under the delusion that the time they grew up in was "better" and that the world is inexorably going to hell in a handbasket, getting worse every day. The problem with Jack is that he takes it out on everyone else, mostly because he feels that because he's a lawyer and thus believes as a public figure it's his obligation to (which is why it ought to be taken away as that's an abuse of his profession). Newsflash, there were no "Good Old Days." It's the same crap over and over, the times and the context just keep chainging. Bad stuff keeps happening, but so does good stuff. It's the way of the world.
On the other hand, it's kind of easy to understand where he's coming from because let's face it, the future is scary. Jack is the latest in a long line of adults who's lashing out at something new because they don't understand it and thus it frightens them. Jack's not railing against comic books or violence in television or movies because that's a form of entertainment he grew up with and thus it's "comfortable" to him. Games are scary. he doesn't understand the technology involved or what their appeal is. Most of his arguments against them sound to me like those of person who sees something very popular that millions of people are flocking to, and the only reason he can figure out why is because it must be some magical "evil influence" (which, as a Born-Again Christian, would be easy for him to believe, as they seem to be group which is predisposed more than most into believing in things that can't be seen). A good further illustration would be David Wong's excellent article on JT, with special emphasis on topic #4.
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/censorship.html
Her's another example. I love Harlan Ellison. Brilliant man, hell of a writer (read his stuff if you find it. You won't be sorry.) I've found his comments on most things to be insightful and true. However, I remember one time in an interview he talked about comic books and how he considered them to be as important as any famous work of literature. Yet in another interview he considered video games, like Jack, to be a 'waste of time." I found it highly ironic, as at one point adults during Ellison's childhood considered reading comic books to be a waste of time and the irony seemed lost on him. Everything is relative. I don't consider gaming to be a waste of time. I don't think anyone here does, otherwise we wouldn't be playing them. I find it constructive as it enhances my focus and critical thinking skills while at the same time providing a vent for my frustration. Yet others who don't understand will think I'm accomlishing nothing. Fine. Let them. I'm not asking them to understand it. Like they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. I'm sure something's going to come along that I'll see kids doing and go, "What do they see in THAT?" But I promise myself to keep an open mind about such things as I get older.
And that's the important thing. Jack and these anti-gaming politicians I think are the kinds of people who have forgotten what it means to be young, to be rebellious and to understand the lure of forbidden fruit. They may think they do, but really what they have are rose-colored nostalgic visions. When I saw what the PMRC were doing, and seeing things like D&D get attacked, I promised myself I would never be like them, that I'd be open and willing to learn about new things and never shut myself out. Just as an example, even today I find myself listening to the latest new musical groups and enjoy them just as much as the stuff I listend to 20 years ago. One time I saw a tricked-out car being driven by a guy in his 30's, and on the back window were two words that I loved: "Recycled Teenager." I like to think of myself that way too. :)
Perhaps if Jack comes down to my neck of the woods, I'll be able to go down there and reveal him for the lying sack of crap he is.
Either way, it's not a suprise. Jack will never enter into a real debate with a real oppenent, cause if he does, he's going to lose, and he knows it.
Arm yourselves appropriately:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_%28attorney%29
Be sure to add in the comment about Sony waging "Pearl Harbor 2" against the US with its games.
Ok then,
When I say my generation that does not include you (I'm 16). And what I say comes mainly from personal experience (and my opinion). So many people are obsessed with myspace it’s disgusting, and really the only use I see for it is a. chat and b. a plea for attention. I mean really do we (or anyone for that matter) need to here about every minute of someone's life (and these are everyday joe shmucks not someone important like the president). There's also the need for material possessions which has grown to large proportions. Like for example whenever there's a new design for an ipod people drop like flies to get it and to show it off. Now I see no need for this since they all pretty much do the same thing but still they HAVE to have the latest flashy electronic crud. I have a PSP but I don’t show it off yet some people I know do. I’m not saying that everyone in my generation does this but a lot do.
Yea, I have seen that a lot. The second someone thinks they know even a tiny bit, they develop all these attitudes towards things they have no real clue about. I'm still going to say that those university students have probably never played a real game, probably chalking it up to "kid stuff" or "beneath them." The sad thing is that all these "university-educated" bastards are going to start voicing their "opinions" and try to make the seem concrete and educated. The problem is that all they are doing is barfing up the crap that other people have fed to them. Ten-to-one everyone that clapped for JT doesn't have a single original idea in their heads.
do you mean what i said about our generation being self abosrbed or that Jack was trying to get us to underestimate him?
Care to elaborate on this?
And this is exactly why I think JT is a dangerous, evil man and why something needs to be done about him.
The generational thing. I don't know if that would include me (like I said earlier, I'm 36). But My girlfriend and I have quite a few friends in their early 20's who might disagree with that assessment.
//but didnt it say in the article that his intention is not to ban violent games, but instead just make it difficult for minors to get a hold of them? //
That's what the article says, THIS one. In almost every other one, he's talking about flat-out banning these games from shelves. That's why he wants to destroy Take Two, he believes them to be a great threat and why he mentions GTA just about every time.
It's almost like this: in his mind, regardless of whatever causes were behind some crime, he believes that GTA made them do it and Postal was a catalyst. Anyone remember the Nazi punk last year who killed people in the Gay Bar, ran off, and killed a cop, his female companion, and himself? No indication that he played games whatsoever, no PS2, no GTA, and yet there was the fact that he was a Neo-Nazi and listened to ICP. And what did Good Ole' Jack say? "GTA made him do it."
Thompson isn't a man of good heart nor intentions. He says that there shouldn't be minor's rights, he's insulted people in another country that have been bombarded with artilery fire by saying he's gotten worse flak than them, and he tried to waste money that could have been used for the Katrina recovery fund. He has even insulted many people and threatened to sue them for harrassment even though they answered his questions in a civilized manner and many more people on the internet by making wild accusations and insulting us. When he says children, he's making it into a blanket to cover up what he means, which is "anyone under 18".
Jack Thompson is trying to fight an industry that has done no wrong to citizens, and it's unknown if he truely believes this BS that games are the only reason (if they would be a reason, that is) that people would become murderers, or if he's just trying to be an attention whore and make people notice him.
So by not letting them wape the constitution they are preventing children being protected?.....rrriiigghhhhttttttt..........
I was really disappointed when I read this. Jones has been speaking for years about the benefits violent games can have, and any parent who is concerned about this, I immediately refer them to "Killing Monsters." When Jones debated Daphne White (of the now-defunct Lion & Lamb Project) a few years ago, he was adamant that you can't compare video games to tobacco due to the expressive nature, and the very real harms of one vs. the speculative nature of the other. Is he starting to reverse course and say that certain games are in fact dangerous?
Or the reporter is paraphrasing. The rest of the writeup it seems pretty clear which bias the reporter is leaning towards. I'm not impressed.
No, that would be baby-boomers like Thompson.
You are really the most egocentric person I have ever heard of in my life. You only care about yourself. You claim you believe in the First Amendment. I know you do, ONLY when it applies to you and nobody else. It is your way or your way.
Children can't buy videogames when they don't have the money to do so. You can't earn any money if you aren't a teenager yet. So the only way they can buy a game then is by getting it from a parent or someone else in the family or maybe friends. In my country they do check for your ID, does this help? Of course it doesn't help. That is why it always has to fall down on the parents. It really shouldn't be that hard to stop your children from playing violent videogames. But as always it should be the decision of the parents.
It is ignorant to believe that you can get rid of violence in this world. And it even more ignorant to believe that violence is caused by violent videogames. And it is more ridiculous to know that you aren't against guns. Sorry, but to someone from Europe this doesn't rhyme.
I always hear/see the phrase that guns don't kill people, people do. But guns aren't used for anything else but for the sole purpose to hurt or kill something or someone. So in other words, JT you are a hypocrit.
I am not surprised, in fact i would've applauded too. Why? Beacuse the fact is he's right.
Oh I wouldn't be surprised if they played games. Just, you know, not those disgusting filthy ones that mommy wouldn't approve of...
As much as I liked my university experience, I found a higher proportion of highly opinionated, yet mostly clueless individuals. A little knowledge makes one much more dangerous than having none at all, because suddenly you develop elitist attitudes towards those who disagree, since you think you know it all... It takes a few years of classes to crush that feeling again. ;)
I m going on a crusade to keep idiots like jack thompson, dick chaney and others because they are a drain on society and show the decay of America. First let me charge him for being a public nusance.
-Auto
He's obviously forgotten all the comments the 'Jack Thompsons' of 40 years ago made about Rock and Rollers and the generation born after the war that had spare money and no military service.
He's getting more and more like a grumpy old man 'You kidsh, with all your new fangled thigimies jusht down know how to talk to your eldersh, and we shouldn't have to try to communicate with you!'.
Im 17 myself, so I take enourmous offense to his very suggestions, he doesnt realize times have changed, 13 is his 17, this whole debate has him acting totally different as an attempt to save face, and come off as a logical family type of guy, on a crusade.. im disgusted that these people applauded him when he insulted him and made such an inflammatory unfounded statement.
18 on the 18th by the way : )
I've been to these university debates before, and I guarantee that 3/4 of the people in attendance truly believe that most of "their" generation are self-centred and lazy, that any violent games are disgusting, and that the ends justify the means.
Go to one of those "Does God exist" debates, and 3/4 of the crowd will be nodding along with ANYTHING the religious side says, no matter how absurd. It's a show to preach to the converted, nothing more.
Besides, what are they going to do, not clap, therefore revealing themselves to be self-centred and lazy? ;)
Yes, that is a good point. I would like to question the percentage of audience members that actually PLAY video games before I go out and brag that they support me. The people who clapped for him were just as ignorant as JT is.