February 26, 2007
Last week, Games Radar posted Are They Gay?, an article which examined five popular game characters and speculated whether they were homosexual.In the piece author Matt Cundy called out Bully’s Jimmy Hopkins, as well as a perhaps less obvious target, God of War’s Kratos:
Sure, he's violent, full of rage and enjoys pleasuring generously breasted ladies, but he's still a buff, bald-headed, semi-naked Greek Adonis that isn't shy of flashing an inch or two of thigh. He also 'accidentally' killed his wife and daughter. Which probably means he's got a grudge against women. Or something.
Aside from Hopkins and Kratos, Cundy speculates about Dead Rising's Frank West, Marcus Fenix from Gears of War and Vaan from Final Fantasy XII. Humor is of course totally subjective. But it’s pretty obvious from the language used that Cundy’s article was at least intended to be funny.
According to GamesIndustry.biz, however, Gay.com UK’s news editor Hassan Mirza didn’t appreciate the joke:
While it's reassuring to know that gamers are interested in the sexual orientation of digital superheroes, Matt Cundy's 'Are they gay?' article relies on a series of juvenile stereotypes and clichés. I can't imagine any homophobic intentions, but it can be dangerous to suggest that looking "camp" means gay, or worse, that gay men hold violent grudges against women. It's a completely misinformed suggestion.
AE: Let’s just hope Mirza never stumbles upon Gay Gamer’s Top 20 Gayest Video Game Characters.
-Reporting from San Diego, GP Correspondent Andrew Eisen
Comments
Re: Editor Not Amused by Gay Game Characters Article
"I’ve got a real problem with that because I don’t want to RSS a feed from an site who’s editorial I can’t control."
First of all, it's "a" site, not "an" site. Secondly, a site is not a person, so your pronoun "who" is incorrect. And thirdly, even if it was a person, it should be "whose," not "who's."
Before you lecture us on proper jounalism, GamerDud, you may want to grab a copy of THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE or maybe just a high school grammar book and read a few pages. It might help your credibility.
And what's with this wanting to CONTROL the editorial of any site you RSS?
Just exactly how does that work, Mr. Murdoch?
Blather on, GamerDud. Blather on.
I chuckled reading the original set, especially the Gears of War one and the "campy" one for FF.
I mean Vaan is posing like he's on the cover of The Advocate! Just look at that chest glisten! :P
The comment about Kratos and hating women was a little childish, they should have implied he was bi or something.
Now the snickers commercial: pure hilarity. I've guys in real life do stupider things because their legs touched while watching football.
Please note that we did not bother with the original Cundy article when it appeared. Nor did we cover the GayGamer piece. In all honesty, given the focus of GP (politics, law, culture as they relate to games) we're not especially interested in the sex lives of fictional characters.
And, from a personal standpoint, I've always considered one's orientation to be one's own business.
not really, I am brain dead after all =^.^=
Ok noted you are a "HE", ^^
I shall try and remembers it =^^=
Fair enough. :)
I *am* saying that it seems that -within the context of the article-, the word kinky was used as a pejorative, so by extension, being gay was inherently bad/kinky.
In hindsight I probably could've chosen a better section to quote.
I certainly agree with the concerns over the whole 'killed his wife and daughter' comment, that was a pretty silly thing to say.
I suppose it's not really a question of the people who can laugh at it and not take it seriously, it's the fact that there are always people who will somehow see it is reinforcement of their own homophobia, and actually believe that gay men DO hate women.
I suppose the best bet is to stop and think about all the Stereotypical rubbish that has been spewed about us over the last year or two, it seemed funny until states started trying to pass unconstitutional laws, and it suddenly came home that not a small percentage of people, even politicians, would rather believe a complete stranger than make the effort to learn a little about things.
w/2
>I’m not really that hell bent on defending the article, I just don’t see how you >get “OMG FREAKY FREAK *points* FREAAAAAAAK!!!” from “he’s kinda into >kinky stuff, so he might be into sexual experimentation”.
While I do not know Ohma or what the person's internals are, this almost sounds like another side of the gay community that has been unsettling people lately. The 'don't associate us with X because at least we arn't X!'
Why read 'freaks' into 'kinky', because politically some people are trying to distance homosexually from kink by bashing it. I have also seen increasing bashing by gays of bi and poly people.
So my guess is that is where this peep built that connection....
Truly none at all.
Best,
Andrew Eisen
I think you're clearly showing bias here but I'll allow you don't mean too.
Not bias against gay people. Not bias in favor of the article.
But you clearly have a problem with gay groups getting offended. In the story itself as you reported it you directly compare this terrible article (written by a straight man I presume) with a far better article at GayGamer.com (written by a gay man - and yes, just like with any minority group, that does matter) and indicate that Mirza should have a problem with both. I read both, and see one as offensive and stupid and the other as amusing.
Then you mention GLAAD and the Superbowl commercial. Again I disagree, because I think that commercial was offensive and wasn't surprised GLAAD had a problem with it. Again, I don't really want to know what you thought about it, outside of an editorial anyway.
So, the bias you've shown is that you think gay groups need to "for the love of fried food" stop being offended by things YOU think are funny. I've got a problem with that because to me, that's not journalism. It's editorial.
Don't get me wrong. I don't really care if you have a problem with GLAAD's reaction to the Superbowl or Mirza's reaction to this article. I don't care. I just don't want to hear about it in connection with a news story.
Report the story, report who is offended and why, and then we get to decide, given the facts, what side we're on. The other problem I have is where you're explaining Cundy's jokes. Are you in his head? Are you sure he's not a gay-bashing Nazi? Maybe he wasn't joking. Or maybe he was. We don't know do we? You shouldn't be helping him out by giving him a defense
Hey, I like you too Andrew and not just because of your first name ;-) I don't recall EVER having a problem like this with yours or Dennis' work. I'm not enjoying this slapping you here. I'm involved only because this stuff is linked to my front page. Again, I've never had this problem with you guys before and I'm a fan of the site and your work.
No hard feelings?
It's a very badly thought out joke, probably made by someone with issues and my day would have been slightly better without it.
I'm not gay, but i'm still offended by its absolute stupidty.
Not. Funny.
What I find interesting is, my question to all of you, how many of you are straight, and how many of you are gay? I think if you have any gay friends, show them the article and ask their opinion about it all. It could be interesting to see what they feel of it. I'm not gay, no, but I will freely admit I am bisexual; and, to be honest, I'm not offended by it at all (don't think because I'm also attracted to women, I'm excluded). I just find it as a poorly thought-out joke, which has a tint of humor while bad in rest. And the Kratos thing, that one was especially bad.
While I give Curdy some acknowledgement in the attempt of humor, I'm afraid I can't give any more; the jokes are just terrible. But I also think people are looking too much into it. So it plays a bit on stereotyping. Humor at it isn't necessarily bad, no! If anything, I find those TV shows have more stereotype than that article. It's not like he's really promoting it, just playing with the idea of it for the fun in it. Sometimes stereotypes can be funny! You just got to know how to use them right. I'm not promoting them either, cause I know it's not true in the real world.
The joke was bad, but in the end, that's all it was. A really bad joke. Take the aggression elsewhere and use it in more positive methods if you feel the need to be offended. Just don't let it get to you, cause it was poorly thought-out, and in rather bad taste, but was not meant to be offensive or anything (at least, not as far as I can tell).
Kratos killed his wife and kid. His wife and kid are both girls. He must not like girls. If he doesn’t like girls, he must like boys. If he likes boys, he must be gay.
Absurd isn’t it? That’s the joke.
Andrew Eisen
Thanks again for telling me, your readers, and especially all those gay people out there what to think again Andrew. Very helpful.
Zip, we've been over this before, I'm a guy. Though I *do* look good in a suit and tie...just not as good as I do in a dress.
And I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in thinking that Andrew's comment was more than a bit unprofessional.
Report the story and let us decided who is right and wrong. Eisen has no business commenting directly or giving us his opinion. I don't give a shit if Andrew thinks the article is funny, good, bad, or indifferent. That's not his job. That's not journalism, that's editorial. I've got a real problem with that because I don't want to RSS a feed from an site who's editorial I can't control.
What they hell?
I can maybe see why the other lines might be jconsidered lame and ill-considered jokes, but this line is just offensive in every way.
Since when is misogyny a "stereotype" of homosexuals? That's more of a stereotype of straight men, statistically speaking. Not too many homosexuals are put in prison for murdering women I'd wager.
Terrible article.
I'm not really that hell bent on defending the article, I just don't see how you get "OMG FREAKY FREAK *points* FREAAAAAAAK!!!" from "he's kinda into kinky stuff, so he might be into sexual experimentation".
1.Kratos:uhh what about the minigame with the ladys?
2.the dude from GOW:game sucked but doesn't mean that he does this. army dudes are usual stariotype for being gay.
3:Jimmy:he's more like a bi.
4:Frank:Why is he on the list!? he more like a wierdo not a homo.
5: dude from FF12: Ok they're kinda right about this cause if i had a Viera in freakin leather that id be turned on but he kinda just pays more attention to that sky pirate dude
""but it can be dangerous to suggest that looking “camp” means gay,""
did you mean campy?
^^
Ohma
This is humor with a slight apathetic bent,take it for ywhat you will I kinda see both sides of it.
I but you look better then me in a suit and tie ^^
Nothign wrong with cross dressing tis called spice or fun ^^
Mirza, Ohma, everyone else, drink some cool water and take some deep breaths. There are some things that you're better off not responding to. The fewer trivial events you respond to, the more likely people are to be sympathetic to your cause.
All my gay friends dress up campy when they go to the bar... My young heterosexual caucasian'ness has nothing to do with it. ;)
Where did you get sexual deviant out of that article? The only potentially offensive part was implying that gay men are women haters. But then isn't that the childish slant against lesbians, that they're "men haters"?
http://gaygamer.net/2007/02/gaycom_slams_games_radar_for_b_1.html
Reminds me of that Snickers commercial that got GLAAD in a tizzy. The advert was obviously meant to be a joke aimed at homophobes and machoism but a lot of people didn't see it that way.
http://gaygamer.net/2007/02/superbowl_snickers_ad_deemed_h.html
If you don't find a joke funny, that's cool but for the love of deep-fried food, at least acknowledge and understand the joke.
Andrew Eisen
Again: "...he enjoys dressing in woman’s clothes. And children’s clothes. ... definitely a bit kinky and not one to shy away from carnal ‘experimentation’."
"How else is thst supposed to be interpreted, other than: “LOLZ Gay ppl r kinky freaks!”"
Those who are comfortable enough with their sexuality to experiment with wearing women's clothing are certainly more likely to experiment with alternative sexual activities.
Or are you calling cross dressers freaks?
"As for the anti-lesbian bit: how is that better again?"
I already said that the anti-women comment was out of line, just providing some perspective, and that instead they should have implied that he was bi, since he clearly loves the ladies too...
Oh, and I'm so "happy" to be reminded yet again, that my fellow readers are allmost entirely young straight white guys.
There's no escaping the fact that zombie killer Frank pitches on the camp side of manly. When not demolishing the heads of the undead, he enjoys dressing in woman's clothes. And children's clothes. Probably not gay per se, but definitely a bit kinky and not one to shy away from carnal 'experimentation'."
How else is thst supposed to be interpreted, other than: "LOLZ Gay ppl r kinky freaks!"
As for the anti-lesbian bit: how is that better again?
There's a reason I'm not a member of Gay Gamers, and it's because they support exactly this kind of steryotyping. It's like the frakking day of silence, how is not talking for an entire day *BREAKING* the silence that most homosexual men and women endure every day?
One man will attempt the unthinkable
Overcoming obsticals, he will have to avoid the overwhelming amount of protests for his joke
John claude van dam in....
Whiny protesters from heck and beyond.
If they laugh at you, they are dealing with fear, and thus fear you less. Some peeps are taking themselves a bit too seriously and are forgetting this extremely useful tool.... and naturally, games are an excellent way to use it ^_^
I know Carlos Mencia has said things similar.
Seriously though. It's a joke for christ sakes. Plus, after reading what they said about Vaan, hmm...I could see it happening :P
Everyone is the butt end of a joke, every now and again. It's a joke, they should laugh, it will keep the sterotyping down.
I'm not telling you or anyone else what to think. I'm telling you and everyone else what I think. At no time did I assume my opinion was irrefutable fact nor did I ever think I came off as that arrogant.
That said, good golly gracious me, it certainly does sting when you're slapped by one of your favorite editors.
Andrew Eisen
Perhaps I'm just not understanding anything at all. But I tend not to worry about fictional character's sex lives.
Bwuh? Over-react much? Thanks for the grammar lesson, but GamerDad and AE's points of contention still stand. (And the resolution)
Take a deep breath and relax.