Dr. Phil Blames Video Games for Virginia Tech Massacre
In the wake of yesterday’s horrific shootings at Virginia Tech, gadfly attorney Jack Thompson was not the only one who was quick to place blame on violent video games.
Noted T.V. shrink Dr. Phil McGraw appeared on CNN’s Larry King Live last night to discuss the rampage. During the course of the program, the following exchange took place:
LARRY KING: Why, though - OK, you want to kill someone, you’re crazed, you’re a little nuts, girlfriend drops you, why do you kill innocent people?… Dr. McGraw, are they treatable?
DR. PHIL: Well, Larry, every situation is different… The question really is can we spot them. And the problem is we are programming these people as a society. You cannot tell me - common sense tells you that if these kids are playing video games, where they’re on a mass killing spree in a video game, it’s glamorized on the big screen, it’s become part of the fiber of our society. You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high.
And we’re going to have to start dealing with that. We’re going to have to start addressing those issues and recognizing that the mass murders of tomorrow are the children of today that are being programmed with this massive violence overdose.
Full transcript here.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:31 am
Oh, for God’s sake.
Of course, rather than trying to address the problems of why they’re a sociopath or trying to help others with similar mental illnesses, it’s wasier to just pin the blame on the entertainment.
How can someone say that, and not realise the major logical short-circuit there? The problem wasn’t that he was a gamer, it’s that he was a f**king psychopath. Taking his games away wouldn’t have made him any less of a psychopath.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:31 am
Traitor!!
April 17th, 2007 at 5:35 am
Ah damnit. Now I have to slap Dr Phill.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:45 am
…well I guess *someone* was gonna say it.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:01 am
didnt this guy saw off his foot in one of the scary movie flicks?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:01 am
The first school shooting in American history was 1966. Predates videogames.
Apparently, the gunman was a Chinese national. As someone studying in China right now, the most overwhelmingly popular games are RTS/MMOs/crazy Chinese games… nary a FPS in sight. And they’re not exactly known for playing console games.
If he’d been running around campus with a sword yelling “FOR THE HORDE!” every time he cut someone down? You might have a case. Here? Not so much.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:12 am
Haha. I can’t believe anyone has ever taken Dr. Phil seriously. That’s like taking viagra to avoid pissing on your feet. He got his degree because he saved up enough magazine clippings from “Human Psychology Digest.”
April 17th, 2007 at 6:13 am
at least he isnt going so far to say that a straight arrow child will go nuts after playing GTA, he is saying its a trigger which could be true
but it dosent excuse him just using video games he should also include violent movies/television and to a lesser extent violent books
April 17th, 2007 at 6:16 am
Fact is, Quack Phil is no more a professional than John Bruce. Neither have any facts to back up their claims and both are trying to use and abuse the victims, families, and community’s tragedy to push their agenda of creating a dictatorship.
Very little facts have been released regarding the shooter(s). And any attempt to interfere with a proper investigation should be met with criminal charges. Even DA Paul Walsh, in the Robida case, said that it would have been illegal for investigators to have shared information to anyone not directly associated witht he investigation. So if John Bruce or anyone attempts to tamper with direct or indirect witnesses or investigators, then he, or anyone doing so, should also be charged. They can speculate, misinform, and deceive the general public all they want, but unless they have had illegal direct contact with anyone involved int he case, then all they are doing, in the end, is speculating, misinforming, and deceiving the general public. Nothing more.
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
April 17th, 2007 at 6:28 am
sad thing is, we all knew someone would play this card.
April 17th, 2007 at 6:40 am
You take [videogames] and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high
Et Tu Phil?
Are you really that stupid to say such an inane and mind-bogglingly stupid thing? Here are some things that, when mixed with a “psychopath, a sociopath…” can cause violence:
Coffee
PMS
Twinkies
Signals from the NSA on your teeth
Maybe the crucial factor is …. wait for it…. the fact that a person is either a (or prone to be) a psychopath.
Oh Dr. Phil, your years of reducing complex problems to simple solutions have taught you better than this… why do you betray me when i need you the most? *sniffle*
April 17th, 2007 at 6:41 am
Jeez, we don’t even know the suspect’s name, let alone if he played video games, and people are already jumping all over video games as the one and only cause of this? Have these people no shame?
April 17th, 2007 at 6:59 am
There is too much of a lack of perspective in all the media talking heads. Just think about all the major incidents of mind boggling death and destruction from history that pre-dates video games. My head just hurts so much from reading and listening to all grandiose nonsense claims about how we are training children to be the mass killers of tomorrow, when we can look to history to see what training children to be mass killers was really like. The Mongol hoards didn’t use video games to train their children. The survivors or Carthage couldn’t blame video games. What video games trained Hitler, Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao Tse Tung, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, etc.?
April 17th, 2007 at 7:01 am
I’m surprised it went as long as it did without someone blaming video games.
What is it with people trying to sensationalize this? I mean really! The “Jack Thompsons” and now “Dr. Phils’ out there are already using this event to push their own agendas. Very limited information has been released and there’s no way they can draw conclusions on what’s happened. It’s sick!
April 17th, 2007 at 7:13 am
the sad thing is i logged onto GP this morning knowing full well that some hack who claims to be an expert would be quoted saying that this persons obviously complex mental issues were so simple that it was playing a game that made him do this
April 17th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Good going Phil. You just decided to stick you head into some place it didn’t need to go. How about maybe waiting for the Police to tell us the reason this actually happened instead of playing the Blame Game with Jack? So yeah, good going on selling out even more just so you could get some more air time to condemn stuff you don’t like.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Dr. Phil just opened himself to a lawsuit. Whatever happened to just blaming the shooter?
The only thing I find more sad than the incident itself is the sheer number of people getting into position to use this tragedy to further their various political goals.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:24 am
“common sense tells you that…”
I hate the way poeple use “common sense”
Common sense is not a good indicator of anything:
Common sense told us that the earth is flat.
Common sense told us that the sun must go round the earth, because it obviously looked that way.
The common sense argument is often used to stop a discussion in its tracks.
And common sense is used by creationists to cast doubt on real scientific fact.
Facts are not decided by a comittee, common sense is.
Thats why you should wait until you know the FACTS before you open your mouth Phil.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Yeah, it’s sad the biggest goal of a huge tragedy, like this, is to try and further your own political goals, rather than trying to figure out why they would do something like that in the first place. I imagine we’ll be seeing a pile of video game legislations and gun control laws over the next couple months.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Why not change the US’s gunlaws?
Because such a great deal of Americans are retarded and think they can protect themselves with weapons if necessary. Guns are only effective if you’re the only one having them, everything else will just result in a shootout.
Compared to the rest of the industrial countries, America is the wild wild west, and that is nothing to be proud of.
Change your constitution!
April 17th, 2007 at 7:29 am
Oh what does this guy know. He gets people on the show, talks about their fathers for ten minutes, then sends them home with a psychiaratrist who has to spend 100 hours deprogramming these people.
He’s the House of the talk show circuit.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Dr. Phil is just as nuts as JT. He always has been. Here in a couple of weeks he will be screaming conspiracy as well.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:39 am
One would think that Dr Phil of all people would understand far more about what actually make people do these things. I am really utterly disappointed in him for daring to be pointing at video games.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I KNEW IT! someone was going to blame it on video games! all i know is dr phil needs to shove it.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:56 am
Let’s see, uhh…
Ted Bundy.
Jeffrey Dahmer.
Joseph Ball.
The Zodiac Killer.
The Bloody Benders.
Robert Berdella.
Juan Vallejo Corona.
Charles Cullen.
Albert Fish.
John Wayne Gacy.
Randy Kraft.
Gerard Schaefer.
Robert Lee Yates.
The connection? None of them played video games. And, I could go on. Now, “Doctor” Phil. What do you have to say about that?
April 17th, 2007 at 8:07 am
What annoys me is this reference to “kids”. People at college/university are not kids. They are grown adults.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:10 am
Very dissapointing. I like Dr. Phil, now I have to not like him so much…
April 17th, 2007 at 8:13 am
@Ted
“Why not change the US’s gunlaws?
Because such a great deal of Americans are retarded and think they can protect themselves with weapons if necessary. Guns are only effective if you’re the only one having them, everything else will just result in a shootout.
Compared to the rest of the industrial countries, America is the wild wild west, and that is nothing to be proud of.
Change your constitution!”
Although I am European, I don’t fully agree with this statement.
Canada has similar laws, but far less crime.
The point is, the US does a poor job in keeping guns out of the wrong people’s hands. No constitution can influence that. Criminals will allways find a way to get to guns.
A more logical (For the US at least) solution is harder rules for getting.
Even so, such tragedies cannot simply be avoided with a ban on guns.
The have or have not the right to bare arms does nothing in crime prevention.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:27 am
*sigh* Why is actual common sense so uncommon?
April 17th, 2007 at 8:45 am
It’s a shame when everyone zooms right in on the video games on the blame game dart board, when you don’t realize that the anniversaries of Oklahoma City, Waco, and Columbine are over the next couple days. Maybe there was some kind of inspiration there, who knows.
The scary part is is that Dr. Phil is actually someone that parents will listen to. If he says to throw out all your kids video games, parents will DO it.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:46 am
This isn’t about video games or gun control… Let me try to explain.
I am an American living in Europe and I can see how bans on guns would work in a place like Sweden, for example. But as I’ve tried to explain to my Swedish friends - whether it’s a gun or a rock or a big stick - people in America are significantly more violent and will find a way to kill other people no matter what.
If someone robs your house in Sweden, they’re likely to take what they want and leave without much or any violence. This certainly isn’t always the case, but on the whole people really have no reason to fear home invasion here.
It’s different in the US, and in especially in a place like Los Angeles where I used to live, where forced entry into your home is much, much more likely to result in some level of violence, and even rape or murder.
And I think the differences in social climate have a LOT to do with cultural differences that are vastly removed from guns, violent entertainment, or any other such factor.
As Americans, we have a long history of violence. This country was founded on it, we’ve continued to live through it, and we’re engaged in it now.
We’re also a considerably more oppressed nation than most others (relative to our status and achievement). Our continued puritanical views on homosexuality, for example, are something we should have done away with ages ago, instead of continuing to obsess over them as if they represented the end of life as we know it.
And we’re an extremely capitalist nation. We don’t offer people much security in terms of health care or retirement, and we offer them little more than a tax cut when they have families or adopt children. And while we allow people to build vast empires if they work had enough, we also allow those empires to exploit us and abuse people for profit. The meat packing industry, for example, is an American tragedy. Do you really want shit in your hamburger, and why are you tolerating it?
It’s all in the very fabric of the American social construct. By nature we’re on our own, living in perhaps the most competitive culture on the planet, with little or no welfare from or trust in our government, and a bent toward violence as a solution to problems.
Whereas, in a place like Sweden, your college education, all of your medical care for life, your pension and retirement, they’re all guaranteed by the goverment. And while Sweden DOES have the highest taxation in the world, this also allows people to relax a little bit and enjoy their lives. They can happily accept less glamorous jobs like working at a clothing store, because it doesn’t determine their success in life or their status on some social ladder, and they know that regardless they will be provided for.
This gives them energy to worry about other things, like environmental issues, and the fact that as a country recycling is a mandate. Not only that, but ecologically safe foods are everywhere on store shelves, as well as fair trade items which are a bit more expensive but guarantee better wages for farmers who struggle to compete with larger food companies.
I’m not comparing the two countries by any means, but I am saying that when people try to distill violence in America to an issue like gun control, they’re forgetting how the entire climate of the country contributes to these issues, and I’m offering my experience here in Europe as an example of how different countries with more healthy societies are able to avoid these issues.
Video games are not the problem.
Trust me, we have much bigger problems than GTA…
April 17th, 2007 at 8:56 am
@Dan
Not all americans live in cities. I lived on farms in the deep south before. Sometimes an animal gets put down, sometimes predators trying to eat your stuff. If you live deep in the country and someone comes around to rob you, the police aren’t coming for at least 30-40 minutes.
For home defense, someone is a whole heck of a lot less likely to come rob you knowing full well you have an assault rifle, shotgun, or pistol laying about. It is a deterrent. Gun control would just mean theives will be armed and you will be capped.
What really hurt me is how these media junkies are already pushing agendas before the bodies are cold. They don’t care that 30+ people are dead, with as many wounded. They care they will get to push some moral agenda on the country. Guns, Games, Movies, Music, none of these are the issue. Sure each one of them may trigger a psycho, but that person was mentally unstable to begin with. There is no sense of personal responsibility these days, it is always something’s fault
April 17th, 2007 at 8:58 am
As much as I think Dr.Phil is a total moron, I don’t think he was exclusively attacking games. I believe he was just taking new “it” that is the social outlaw and using that as an example. I think he meant videogames as an interchangable word, as he does go on to acknowledge that the person would have to have a mental deficiency in order to perform an act like this.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:58 am
@ted-
Eh? According to a DOJ study by the rabidly anti-gun Clinton administration, and a previously anti-gun criminologist Gary Kleck in the mid ’90s at the height of the gun-control movement, guns were said to be used defensively 1-2.5 million times per year. Compare that rather large number to, say, 9.9K criminal homicides, 128.7 assaults, and 126.1K robberies committed with firearms in 2005, and explain how people are “retarded” to think they can defend themselves. Even skewing to the lower projected number of defensive gun uses, 1,000,000 > 265,000.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Great, just great. Now my name is being shared by a guy who’s just about as stupid as Jack Thompson -sigh- I swear, I’m getting my name changed when I graduate from high school to Damien!
April 17th, 2007 at 9:17 am
@ Phil Harris
No! Phil is a good name! My dad’s a Phil. Plus, Jeff is a good name, too, even thought us Jeff’s have a mass-murderer in our history. Don’t let a no-talent ass-clown define your namesake.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Just remember “Dr. Phil” has a television audience that is the “lowest common denominator”-this is a new low for him though. Also, just because someone has a Ph.D does not mean they are significantly smarter than someone who is without. Leland Yee is another example of this…
April 17th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Dr. Phil is such a hack. Do we even know who the killer is, much less his true motives?
April 17th, 2007 at 9:22 am
I don’t get the shock over this. The MOMENT the shooting started I already knew that videogames would be blamed- and even if “real” facts come to light and show games had nothing to do with it, the anti-game christian fundies and oppressive soclialists will chomp at the bit to impose their beliefs on everyone.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:38 am
@illspirit
I would like to see that research. Because I can see that making sense by counting crimes that were solved (criminals arrested) vs any time a gun is used.
You try to sneak into my house, I fire a warning shot, you flee. I call the police obviously, and the records show I fired a gun in self defense, no criminal.
That would make sense.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:42 am
I farking hate “Dr.” Phil. He’s as much a Doctor as Jack Thompson is a Lawyer or the Pope is an Atheist. This just proves how deluded this moron is - spouting crap like this on national TV without any facts to back it up is irresponsable and should be illigal, IMO. Of course, that would infringe on free speech, but at this point I’m beyond caring. Some people just don’t deserve to have the public’s eyes on them anymore.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:43 am
@Terminator44
Yea I know, the only thing we know for certain about this guy are a few vague details. If the public doesn’t know WHO did it, than how does Dr. Phil know WHY it happened? This pales in comparison to JT on the news yesterday blaming CounterStrike, before the bodies had even been counted.
@Zerodash
I think the shock of the community comes more from how quick the blame was placed, not so much that video games have been brought up.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:52 am
So far, here are the facts, at least according to some of the news sources.
The police apparently know who the shooter is, but refuse to disclose his identity at this time. However, he is supposedly a 24-year-old Chinese male who came over to the United States on an education visa last year. He was living in the dorms.
First off, it’s illegal to have a gun if you’re on a visa in this country. Second, the serial numbers were filed off. Third, keeping guns in a dorm is against the policies of most universities. While I can’t vouch for Virginia Tech, I’m betting it was true there.
He also had buckets of ammo, a bunch of extra clips, and he chained the doors of the building shut. This makes me believe it was premeditated.
Also, if he really was 23 when he came here from China, it’s very likely that he’s already put his time in with the Chinese military, so he’s had military training.
That’s about everything I’ve heard, and it’s very possible that some of this information could be wrong. We won’t know until more information comes out. But, from the look of it, he’d been planning this for a little while, and I certainly don’t think video games were the reason why.
April 17th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Ok, just found a conflicting report stating he was a Korean national who was here on permanent residency.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:03 am
@John-
DOJ study: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
Section about self defense starts on page 8.
More from Kleck and a critic or two can be found here: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
April 17th, 2007 at 10:17 am
well if we’re going to stereotype, Dr. Phil, why not go the whole nine yards?
the guy was Asian, that much we know.
so obviously he trained to murder all those people using Dance Dance Revolution…
April 17th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Common sense tells me that we need to look into a dangerous chemical: dihydrogen monoxide. When paired with bread, we find that nearly all murderers and felons consume both of these insidious substances on a daily basis. What’s more, hundreds of people drown in aqueous dihydrogen monoxide every year. Not to mention the increased aggression often found after many Americans consume bread.
When dihydrogen monoxide is combined with ground refined wheat, “the grist” as I like to call it, and a dangerous moldy fungus, you produce the very vile substance that can be found paired with these depraved individuals: bread.
The facts speak for themselves: ban the hydride and demon-wheat-yeast loaf! Future generations will thank you.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:24 am
I sent the below to Dr. Phil through email. We’ll see if I get a response:
“Dear Dr. Phil,
I read this morning some of your remarks on Larry King on April 16th in response to the tragedy at Virginia Tech.
In one of your statements you equate video games as being a cause of violence in the kids today and a cause of violence down the road.
I’m sorry to say that not only are you misinformed by the facts but your quick conclusion of the cause of this tragedy shows an insensitive nature and your willingness to capitalize on the suffering of others.
The fact is over the past 20 years video games sales have dramatically increased in the US and across the world, many of these games are violent (and not intended for sales to minors). However over those past 20 years the amount of violent crime in youth has dramatically decreased to the lowest levels ever recorded by the FBI (feel free to check out their website for these statistics). If you want to just throw out correlations, video games decreases violence in youth, it doesn’t increase it. Society’s such as South Korea have an even greater acceptance of video games in their culture (its a national sport) yet their rates of violence dwindle compared to ours, further discounting your incorrect assumption. Since I also have a psychology degree from a cracker jack box I will conclude video games allow individuals to vent their frustrations threw a virtual environment and thus releasing their stress they might have otherwise taken out in the real world.
It is statements like yours that create knee jerk alarmist reactions before the facts come out about these situations. It also diverts people from pinpointing the real causes of such violence such as allienation from society, an increase in the hectic nature of our lives, and disconnect from those around us.
I don’t expect to hear from you but please refrain in the future from making such inflamatory and incorrect statements.
Thanks.”
April 17th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Ya he was Korean…. oh the irony… so supposivly the “Videogames” in the “American Socity” are to blame for a Korean kid going nuts and shooting Americans… ya, try finding the blame on the usual suspects (videogames, Movies, Music) on that one JT and Dr. Phil.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Well shoot guys, I just got done wasting like 50 guys in FarCry…I’ll be right back, I have to go kill half the people in my office now…..For the love of god why in the hell are people so stupid?! Movies glorify violence a whole lot more, with a whole lot more detail, and on much larger screens. Until the government can control our thoughts with implants in our brains, crap like this will just keep on happening.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:26 am
“The problem wasn’t that he was a gamer, it’s that he was a f**king psychopath. Taking his games away wouldn’t have made him any less of a psychopath.”
Actually the logical short circuit is in your statement. As Phil clearly states, the problem is BOTH. Taking away the violent culture would still make him a sociopath, but likely not a mass murderer. It’s not rocket science. I’ve never met someone who’s so independent minded that they’re not significantly a product of their environment, hence the “common sense” reference.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:35 am
[…] That didn’t take long at all. posted by Nathan at 9:34 am filed in Games […]
April 17th, 2007 at 10:40 am
I think that’s a disingenuous argument. British history is hardly free of bloodshed, and we get on just fine without being armed to the teeth.
I’d also like to point out that, at least in my mind, there’s a difference between “gun control” and banning guns. Surely a few more thorough checks on who’s buying guns and who owns them couldn’t be a bad thing?
Of course, because psychopaths and mass murderers only appeared once violent videogames became commonplace. I didn’t realise the Paxton Boys had an Xbox.
I don’t doubt that violent culture was a factor. I do, however, question the idea that videogames played a significant role in triggering or influencing this act directly, especially when there’s no indication that this shooter was even a gamer.
Odds are that he was, but I don’t know that we should automatically start pointing out blame targets just yet.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:47 am
@ Selection7
With that line of logic lets take all mentally unstable people and eliminate any outside stimulus. And for the record violent culture is not a requirement for stimulus to set off a person with mental issues. Hell it could have been the way Captain Crunch looked at him that morning that made him take action. The question is, where the hell did he get the weaponry? Also its not like he snapped and a gun popped into his hand, no he had that thing before the tragedy. Please get more informed before crapping on other people.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:51 am
The moment I heard about the shootings I KNEW that videogames would be blamed. We don’t know anything about the shooter other than his name and that he was a student at the facility, and people are already jumping on the “blame (insert the most popular form of entertainment media)” bandwagon.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Needless to say, I already thought Dr. Phil was an egotistical idiot and a jerk. Still, I didn’t think he would actively jump to conclusions this far away, especially when no information was available as to the shooter’s identity, let alone any possible motives.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:54 am
blah blah blah blah
music made me do it
I hate my parents
I read a book and loved the idea
I played this video game and man o man lets go kill
Ohh I can get this gun and lets see if I can get away with it and get attention and oops I just killed some people I feel bad I dont want my family to see me so I will kill myself
I dont have the facts either but on my wifes side she has a aunt that is always wanting attention and always saying she will hurt her self and never does it. Some people are crazy and decide to do bad things but if Im mental and I make the effort to get guns, lock doors - plan my actions I would be considered determined and something higher is making me do this.
This just in: Some mad man who played put-put-golf is on pebble beach going crazy hitting the balls at people……
April 17th, 2007 at 10:58 am
@aniki21
the reason has been stated why people automatically point out blame targets before all facts have been released. They are a)trying to advance their careers using anything as a foothold (best example is JT) or b)push their moral agendas on everyone.
Dr. Phil i think jumped on the video game thing on more of a moral agenda move than career advancement, hes got Oprah for career advancement and a horde of rabid zombie fans that’ll buy his books or watch his shows at a drop of a hat.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:01 am
As much as I’m a believer that video games do not cause violence but I don’t buy that nobody here doesn’t get the urge after playing need for speed to go our and drive like freaking mad.
It’s just like going to a movie, watch a racing movie (like after Fast and the Furious, or gone in 60 seconds), same urge, different media.
It doesn’t take Dr Phil to put into words, combine that same urge with a mental defect and bamo, something bad happens.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:07 am
As much as I love to hate Jack Thompson, and those on his bandwagon, I don’t believe that what Dr Phil said is the same as blaming video games for the recent shooting. I believe that he was speaking more on the current status of our society, with violence being glamorized everywhere; video games is just one of the many mediums that has inordinate amounts of violence. TV, movies, music, even children’s cartoons are loaded with some form of violence. Whether it’s Patrick smashing Spongebob’s head with a rock, or a singer saying “threw a right cross and knocked his old ass out” you have to admit that, as a culture, we can’t get away from it. So, Dr Phil was only using one example, and I think that he’s dead on. I’m a parent, and I had to ban the Power Rangers from my household. Why? Because my son was running around, kicking and throwing punches at anything that moved. Any stick became a sword. Any cord or string became a whip. I didn’t want him thinking that what he saw on TV was the norm, and that he was expected to learn how to fight in order to solve his problems. Imagination is a wonderful thing, but there needs to be a disconnect between reality and fiction. Some people have a harder time making that distinction. My son didn’t realize that the people he was hitting with a inflatable bat didn’t appreciate it, or that what he was doing wasn’t appropriate. Why? Cause he’s 5. There are people in this world that have serious issues in trying to decide what is real and what is not. How are they to know what is appropriate when we have “John McClane” solving all his problems by beating the crap out of someone or shooting them? Maybe, we as a people, need to start being more cognizant of what we are watching, what their kids are playing, and if those things are affecting our ability to cope with drama. I think Phil is right.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Using his method of thinking; I hope the developers take this as a que and come up with a great game that teaches us psychology and psychiatry so we can be like him. Ohh, maybe ROCKSTAR GAMES should approach him for the first Dr. Phil themed XBOX360 wellness game. Can you all imagine how awesome the multiplayer games would be? Are you lying down? YES. OK tell me about your mother and your childhood. Kaching-kaching-kaching. Racking up those achievment points in no time. Dr. Phil is a FREAKING quack.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:10 am
[…] Update: Und es geht los. [1] [2] […]
April 17th, 2007 at 11:13 am
i think the bottem line that needs to be gotten across to people like phil and thompson is that we have always, ALWAYS, lived in a violent society. always have and in my opinion we always will. pointing fingers isnt going to get us anywhere, and you cant really fix this issue. so as cold as it may sound, SHIT HAPPENS.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:14 am
I work for Dr. Phil, and I now have zero desire to return to my job.
Seriously.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:15 am
I wonder what videogames Charles Whitman played?
April 17th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Dr. Phil simply says its the combination of both violence in the media and the person’s crazed mind is that it is a deadly combination.
He doesnt seem to directly blame video games, as the GP article points out.
As a gamer, I think it’s a fair assumption. It’s not one i agree with 100%, but I understand. I think the attention mass murder gets whether it’s on the news or part of a fictional storyline (a book, movie, or game) is glamorous and exciting to a person who feels unwanted and rejected by society.
And i don’t think Dr. Phil would speak out on video game violence as many are now quick to believe.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:19 am
How come no one is talking about how it was maybe the required military service for S. Korean males that helped him stay focused and ignore the 30 people he killed before he killed himself? Maybe all that training and knowledge was put to use in it, not that he played violent video games. For some reason, I don’t think that just playing violent video games will psychologically prepare you for taking 30 lives.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:22 am
I play Madden 07 all the time and I’ve never chop-blocked Ray Lewis. Go fig.
Keep it up with blaming movies and video games and all we’ll have left to entertain us are friggin’ Davey & Goliath cartoons
April 17th, 2007 at 11:23 am
I’m a Hokie alumnus, so this hit very close to home. I’m disgusted that Dr. Phil came to this conclusion, but not surprised. Well, I am surprised that he’s willing to let what little credibility he has be destroyed by using these deaths as propaganda before the bodies are even in the ground and by blaming videogames when this kid could might not even be a gamer.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Hmm… better close that bold tag.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Take anything and mix it with a psychopath, you’ve got problems.
What an idiot.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:25 am
@Mikey
And I’m sure your son is in college and an adult. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate you parenting your child and taking an active step in teaching him. But the difference between violent media is that TV is on TV you get cable or satellite for some channels but you get HBO and other channels with content which may be inappropriate for a child. A video game has to be bought as well as the console.
There is no scheduled program on a video game where one minute you have a kids game and the next elmo turns into a serial killer and doing things only DeSade would speak of. You purchase a game with warnings on it I mean a big fat M. While you could tune into Fox and in a 3 hour time span you can go from family entertainment to Jack Bauer torturing a terrorist. Those 2 pieces of media have different avenues of viewing it, TV is by far the easier one to acquire and the easiest to result in misuse.
Dr. Phil is wrong because if the student was mentally handicapped to the degree that people say then he would have no mental function of recognizing right from wrong regardless of stimulus. The question no one but myself is asking is where the hell did he get the weaponry from.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Cheers, gamer42, I was just about to bring up the required military service for South Koran nationals. The reports from the students at VT clearly stated he was efficient at his gun handling, aim, and reloading. Specifically the reloading of the clip was a huge tip off to me that this was someone trained in the ways of firearms. Its a heck of a lot more difficult to reload than what you “learn” in a video game. You don’t shoot off the side of the screen or hit “R”. This guy was mentally unstable. He was going to be a danger to others whether or not he ever played a video game in his life.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:29 am
CFTF: The mental image of someone running around with a sword yelling “For the horde!!” is going to make me smile for days
April 17th, 2007 at 11:31 am
News said he had a receipt. In VA (and many other states), if you are a permanent resident you may legally purchase a handgun as long as you pass the background check. There is no 5 day waiting period like some other states, but since the news says he purchased it a while ago, it wouldn’t have mattered.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Man, it’s been a while since I posted a comment here, but this one I think deserves a few words.
I skimmed through the Larry King transcript and caught all the portions where he spoke with Dr. Phil. Now I know many people call Dr. Phil a quack due to his Doctorate degree being more focused on law than on psychology.
However, despite the criticisms and the disputes over the effectiveness of his books and talk show, there is one thing that can be said whole heartedly.
He works with good intentions.
Dr. Phil tries to help people resolve issues that become a burden on their lives. Whether it be relationship issues, weight loss issues, health, sociological studies, whatever he does he does with the intent and purpose to HELP people. Whether or not you agree with him is solely up to you, but you can NOT deny the fact that his actions and words are geared with the intent of trying to do good.
Now to hear Dr. Phil call out on video games for being taking responsibility does seem very out of character for him. He’s never made any notable statements about games before; neither positive or negative. Video games, I’m sure, are not his thing. His sons probably know much more about games then he does, as they are very likely to have grown up with the Atari and NES generation. (His son in college right now is most likely of the SNES/Genesis generation).
It’s quite possible his sons may disagree with their father about his feelings towards the violent games, but what caught me as the most interesting was this. He didn’t put games as the SOLE cause of this or any other incident. He said that he considered games to be a sort of trigger. That the image they portray to anyone with serious mental issues may lead someone to think it’s okay to essentially go on a slaughterfest.
I admit that saying that video games, and video games alone, can act as a trigger is a bit unfair. It’s possible he may have thought that after hearing Wacky Jacky, and if unfamiliar with him, he might think he’s got a point there. If he did, however, then I’m thinking a little friendly e-mail telling him that Wacky Jacky is a couple steps away from being disbarred for his wild behavior might change his mind a bit.
If he was going to be fair about the whole violent video games thing, then he SHOULD have mentioned that violent movies, TV shows, music, and as someone here said, books on a lesser extent.
Although consider the Bible for a second. The Bible has some pretty graphic and violent passages, and has often been used as a trigger, if not a source, for many violent acts. The Crusades, for one, are a good example where wars were fought over theological differences.
Yet the Bible has not been banned, as along with violent passages, there are also passages that promote peace.
The same goes with Video Games as there are games that promote violence (GTA, Manhunt, many games from Rockstar), but there are also games that are peaceful or promote peace (The Sims, Tetris, the Myst series).
Before Dr. Phil commented about the games, he did say something that I thought was wise, and that was that people need to keep an eye out for warning signs if someone is likely to do something drastic. He also mentioned that when said warning signs are observed, there needs to be a way to properly treat and ensure that these destructive tendencies are quelled and removed.
If there is a person with known psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies, or they are observed to possibly have as such, then it would likely be a good idea to remove all violent media (Games, TVs, Movies, Books, etc.) away from them. The last thing they need is anything that could set them off.
And BEFORE something sets them off, they need to be treated, whether in an institution or somewhere else, they need to see a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or worse case scenario: locked in a padded room.
@James
I thought your comment was very well thought out and appreciate that you mentioned that this country was indeed born out of violence, despite previous peaceful attempts and ceceeding from British control.
You made some good thought provoking arguments.
To wrap things up, I am not going to start hating on Dr. Phil for what he said. I may send a friendly e-mail saying that if you are going to include violent video games don’t forget to also mention violent movies, music, and books as well. Otherwise, if he is going to single out video games, he ought to be able to cite a source where he gets this opinion from. “Common Sense” doesn’t always cut it. Regardless, I am still going to listen to him since, unlike Wacky Jacky, he honestly wants to do good for other people. Our friend Jack is just a spiteful, hateful man who likes to grab at straws and lash out at whatever or whoever doesn’t agree with him. Dr. Phil is not like Jack Thompson, and before the video game comment he emphasized the importance of people who were directly or indirectly impacted by this event to open up and vocalize their feelings so they can heal quicker.
That’s good advice!
And on Larry King’s part, I thought he did a good job of staying impartial throughout the whole thing by sticking to questions and not trying to side with anyone. Just get the information and people’s opinions.
So while surprised, I’m not going to read too much into this. You’ve heard my side of the story, now what do you think?
~Otaku-Man
April 17th, 2007 at 11:33 am
yeah but these anti gaming people (not specifically dr. phil as it is true that he really didnt single games out like the article implys) need to realize that any preventative measures, such as gaming legislation and pushing for a government regulated system does not guarantee that these things will not happen or our violent society will go away in an instant.
the law in no way shape or form can prevent things from happening, it only discourages people from commiting whatever crime it is for. you could ban m rated games and such from being sold in stores but that doesnt mean the stores will comply with your ruling. you could do the same with guns, you may ban them from being used but it doesnt mean people will go along with it.
you have to work at the core issue here and that in my opinion seems to be the mental health aspect of our society. people cannot get the help they really need because politicans are so out of touch with reality that the people who need help get ignored and the money that could be spent on helping them gets flushed down the toilet on this anti gaming crap that gets thrown out of the courts anyway.
what this society NEEDS to do is wake up and look at the big picture. its like these people are saying that this whole issue of violence in society began back in the late 1980’s or to be fair, when the first violent films and such were produced.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:34 am
[…] Jesus Christ. Can we not wait for the victim’s bodies to cool before we start making incredibly premature assertions about videogames being responsible for the Virginia Tech massacre? […]
April 17th, 2007 at 11:35 am
CFTF said, “The first school shooting in American history was 1966. Predates videogames.” Yea, well, he didn’t say video games are the sole cause of violence. So, what is your point?
Jigga said, “Movies glorify violence a whole lot more” Yea, he mentioned movies. That’s what the “big screen” refers to.
Terminator44 said, “people are already jumping all over video games as the one and only cause of this[.]” But not Phil. He mentioned movies too. That’s what the “big screen” refers to.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Right now on CNN, 11h30. A guy (I’ll get his name when it’s said) said something like “the reason killers like these stay so calm, it’s because they rehearsed it so many times while playing video games”.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Don Clark, former something regarding the FBI.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:39 am
I play video games on a constant basis. I’m also in the military, and have served overseas! Also, I’m 25, seen people killed in movies, TV, hear it in music, and have been witness to a few murders.
In all honesty, does playing video games make me more prone to violence? No. Why? Because I’m spending most of my free time PLAYING the video games.
Go ahead. Take them away. Where do I redirect my anger now, Dr. Phuck-Phil?
April 17th, 2007 at 11:39 am
[…] The natural question to ask after a senseless and brutal massacre of innocent people is “why?” Dr. Phil and Jack Thompson say it was violent video games, of course. Morons. People always use this sort of occasion to advocate more of whatever they were in favor of in the first place. […]
April 17th, 2007 at 11:42 am
I know this is only indirectly related, but I recently sent an email to FOX news regarding the Jack Thompson interview yesterday, and encourage other gamers to do the same. The coverage, (viewable at least on youtube) was completely one-sided, and in the wake of yesterday’s events I fear the impact they could have on the uninformed.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:43 am
[…] UPDATE (x2): Dr. Phil blames video games. Here’s an article on Jack Thompson, who blamed video games yesterday before they even knew who did the killing or what the motive was. […]
April 17th, 2007 at 11:46 am
@sabin_blitz Says:
“*sigh* Why is actual common sense so uncommon?”
Because the likes of Jack Thompson, Franco Frattini and that German Pope killed common sense. End of story.
Considering Phil co-stared with Shaq, it seems like Dr.Phil needs some Shaq Fu, agian.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Wow, further proof people fear what they don’t understand. Or can’t do well. Obviously this old coot can’t find a real reason for the issue. He’s a shrink right? Lamer. I game RTS all tbe time am I going to make an army and blast away cities cuz i get a little sad about something? HA! So much for this idiot’s theories.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:49 am
i saw that FBI dude on the news just now too. crock of shit man. i thought the FBI did an investigation after columbine and determined all these factors, around 40 or so, that could have led to the shooters doing what they did but video games were not on the list they made. i dont understand how you could “reherse” something like this on a game, the shooter games out there are hardly realistic.
its one thing to push a button to fire and reload a gun but its an entirely different thing to know how to do it with a real one in real life. the shooter from what i heard used a handgun, considering the number dead he had to have had to reload at some point. what or who taught him that? you cant actually learn this stuff from a game, or even a movie. wake the fuck up people.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Yeah,
I think we know who the real psychopath is….
April 17th, 2007 at 11:54 am
@Ted
“Guns are only effective if you’re the only one having them” therefore we should take away the rights of people to own them so only the criminal element has them? That’s your solution?
Guns have been very effective in dictatorships, historically. Guns were very effective in Tiananmen Square. The fact that a single armed student may have significantly reduced the tragedy didn’t cross your mind?
It all sounds great on paper, take away everyones gun. To do that, you have to take away everyone’s knowledge about how to create a gun. Then you have to take away everyone’s desire to have a gun. Hell it might even be possible to convince sane responsible people not to carry guns. But the gunman in this case was not sane or responsible.
Sane responsible people don’t go on shooting rampages. Wouldn’t it be more effective to just outlaw insanity and irresponsibility? Then we wouldn’t have an issue. Why is it you think it’s logical and possible to outlaw guns, and yet not logical or possible to outlaw insanity and irresponsibility?
April 17th, 2007 at 11:56 am
‘I know this is only indirectly related, but I recently sent an email to FOX news regarding the Jack Thompson interview yesterday, and encourage other gamers to do the same. The coverage, (viewable at least on youtube) was completely one-sided’
I don’t know if I smell irony on that or not?
Fox…..one sided…….NEVER!!!
April 17th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
@CFTF
“If he’d been running around campus with a sword yelling “FOR THE HORDE!” every time he cut someone down? You might have a case. Here? Not so much.”
Would that be 2H or dual wielding?
I don’t believe in the ‘video games are bad’ theory. This goes to the stability of someone’s personality and the easy availability of fire arms.
The precursor here is supposed to be someone gets dumped by his girlfriend. If everytime someone gets dumped by their boy/girlfriend a rampage ensues, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of people left by this time, wouldn’t you think?
We don’t have to ban video games [certainly not if we don’t also ban fire arms], what we have to do, because it’s cheaper than hauling off the bodies, is to provide good health care to people who need it and to love each other more.
That gets no love because we don’t like to pay for someone else, but it raises a question of what kind of society you prefer. At this point it looks like it’s every man/woman/child for themselves and let god sort out the bodies.
We are going to say the things we’ve said before. A different set of people is going to suffer and ache, some for the rest of their lives, and nothing will get done because we are no longer able to form effective and coherent policies to address the fundamental problems in society.
The only lesson we will learn here, as ever, is that we don’t learn from the lessons history teaches us and therefore we are doomed to repeat them.
Don’t wince, moan, howl or weep about it but another massacre is going to happen sooner rather than later. We close our eyes but the problem doesn’t go away. Isn’t that strange?
April 17th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
In my thirty-four years on this Earth, the excuse for tragic acts like this has changed far too many times than I can remember. As addressed earlier, no one actually steps up and goes after the real causes, they just look for excuses to blame it on.
Heavy Metal/Rock music was going to turn me into a suicidal, drug-using, demonic cult member. Well, I’m obviously still alive, have never been interested in drugs, and while non-denominational, I’m far from ever joining a cult.
Role-playing games were going to turn me into a psychopathic killer (and again, demonic cult member) who couldn’t tell reality from fantasy. I still play Dungeons and Dragons and I still know now, just as I did when I started playing when I was eight, that it’s just a game and a work of fiction.
Television violence was going to turn myself and other kids into raving psychoctic killers with a lust for the “thrill” of killing someone. Strangely, that never happened either. Instead, even as a child, I can remember being annoyed at the lack of realism when a parachute appeared in the sky after every single plane was shot down in cartoons like GI Joe.
Video Games like Grand Theft Auto, HALO, and God of War are supposed to be turning kids into killing machines with no fear of the law. All my nieces and nephews older than ten have played such games and none of them have yet to show signs of violent behavior. They were never allowed to just sit and play a game like that alone, instead an adult or older sibling was always in the room with them to talk to them about it as they played. If they had shown signs that they didn’t understand the difference between the game and real life, they wouldn’t have been allowed to play it.
The list goes on, but put simply, it is never just one thing that is responsible for people like this. Trying to package it in a nice little box with a single-answer bow on top to make people happy is foolish at best. It seems to me the more we worry about shielding our children, the more they try to do what we’re shielding them from. (As has always been the case)
April 17th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Dr. Phil is an idiot. Oprah is an idiot. Whatever happened to people raising their children properly? If children are raised properly, video games and other external factors should not be an issue. I saw thousands of people die on television as a child. I played some video games. I have never thought about going on a killing spree. Keep in mind, Asians, Koreans etc. do not value human life like we do either. If our politicians would wake up and put a freeze on immigration, we would have prevented this and 9/11. (Why the hell are people of other countries allowed to attend our schools if they are not US citizens?)
April 17th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
@ HoRnO
Oh, I totally understand that, and maybe it’s futile to put forward any effort, but the viewers Jack Thompson is influencing aren’t idiots, they’re just individuals seeing only one side of a very complicated argument. So if we as gamers could try and represent our side on this one issue, it certainly can’t hurt.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Pong! It all goes back to Pong!!!
If only we’d known then what we know now…
I remember the first time I played Donkey Kong on an arcade machine back in the early 80’s… I spent the rest of the afternoon climbing scaffolding while my buddy threw burning barrels at me.
It was fun at the time, but, hey….
April 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Of course they’re going to say it’s video games. It’s so much easier to say that than to ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT THE REAL REASON. Maybe there is no reason, but in the meantime, let’s just blame something we don’t like or understand. Dumbasses.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Not only is Dr. Phil blaming games, he is also using the word psychopath wrong (most of the people here use it wrong too, but they don’t pretend to be shrinks). A psychopath is realy a charming, inteligent, but dominating person. He isn’t somebody who just randomly attack people. He is the charming guy in a bar or in a library.
Does Dr. Phill have a real Phd. in psychology?
April 17th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
If Video games are the cause how do you explain Bin Laden and Sadam Husein? I would think there weren’t any video games in there younger years and if it was I may have been “Pong” but I think seeing that little white ball bounce across the screen would make anyone psycho.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
considering all of that… would that explain the shooting in Texas in 1966.. the second worst college school shooting? Oh wait.. we’re not trying to get answers, we’re just pointing figures to look smart.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
so much for Doc Phil being smart to jump on the scapegoat bandwagon to gain viewer ship is rather weak.
Cyril Brennan
My god real common sense! preach it brother!
April 17th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Psychopath or Sociopath + rage = violence
Videogames and movies don’t need to be in this equation.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
As long as Dr Phil recognises the difference between the key and the room behind the door. It’s all very easy to say ‘Video Games and Movies made them do it’, as long as it’s realised that is the cowards’ way of looking at things.
It’s trying to divert the responsilbility for actions into a ‘no-choice’ situation, which is untrue, one of the things what makes us human is our ability to choose not to do something.
People are always attacking media that doesn’t sit well with them personally, since, in the US, you can’t get away with ‘I just don’t like it’, you have to start saying things like ‘Computer Games eat Babies’, it’s no different to ‘Harry Potter creates Devil Worship’, ‘Dancing like Elvis promotes promiscuity’, or even ‘God kills American soldiers because he hates gays.’
It’s all the same thing in a different suit. ‘I don’t like this media and I’m going to say it’s a danger to society to get it destroyed.’
Computer games don’t create phsycopaths, and just about anything can trigger a latent phsychopath.
The fact is that most young males, who are well known as being in the most confusing and challenging period of their life, are constantly being told what is good for them, told they must conform to the wishes of society, the principal etc, etc, are punished when they speak their mind or dare to act like human beings, and are ignored if they go to authority for help.
Are you quite sure it’s computer games, Dr Phil, or could it possibly be more about societies attitude that all teenagers are ‘troublemakers’ waiting to happen, maybe if society didn’t treat them like they had some kind of plague, they wouldn’t feel so unaccepted in American life. And maybe if they felt they could approach someone to talk to about their concerns, and actually see those concern being taken into consideration instead of ignored as the ramblings of an ‘angsty teenager’, maybe this wouldn’t happen as often.
Basically, taking a tragedy like this and blaming it on anything other than societies failure to identify and address the problems earlier is pure scapegoating.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
From msnbc
“”“He was very quiet, always by himself,” said Abdul Shash, a neighbor. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.”
ok, this doesn’t get rid of the fact he may have been a video gamer… who the hell isn’t that is inbetween the ages of 20-30. but this shows he wasn’t one of Jack’s shut in super training monsters he loves to pretend exsist. he actually went outside, but ignored anyone and everyone who said hi. it’s obvious there were more problems this kid had that no one could catch. mainly because he was so shut out from anyone.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Some people who knew the shooter said he played basketball in his spare time. Perhaps we should ban Basketball.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
What does he know, he said he’s not even a real psychologist, he’s an electrictian.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
“The girlfriend cheated on him and he decided to go on a rampage.”
Sad that he felt the need to kill 20 other people to make his point.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
so what video game was Charlie Whitman playing? How about Starkweather? How about Albert Fish or Ed Gein?
You know Phil, knowing a bit about the history of violence with or without guns saves you from sounding like a braying jackass with an axe to grind and a finger to point when you go off on your inane ramblings.
I think the good “Doctor” (pfft, what an insult to anybody who actually graduated from med school) just mad because he never had to coordination to get high score on Tempest at the pizza parlor and people used to make fun of him for it.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
This is probably Dr. Phil’s way of letting the world know that he is writing a book on the topic (or soon will be).
April 17th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
CNN is reporting that the gunman’s note decries “rich kids” and “debauchery.” I think at that point we can rule out video games, if he’s anti rich people then he probably didn’t have a whole lot of spare money himself. And I make a decent living and am barely able to pay for games as it is >.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Wait…he was dumpped, then killed people. This can only mean one of two things:
1: Video Games cause you to be dumped
2:We need to ban girlfriends, as they cause violence in nutcases.
(Uh…can’t ANYTHING cause violence in psychopaths?)
April 17th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
If its not music, D&D role playing, video games, movies and what ever else is considered forms of entertainment makes people go on killing sprees, whats left? How many people went on a killing spree after engaging in a game of Pong? Look back at the Postal workers! Dr Phil, did you know that delivering mail day in and day out caused a mailman to go on a killing spree? Heck, I didnt know delivering mail was a form of entertainment, but god forbid the person would have had mental issues before any of these things. Note to self, do not have any fun for fear it may cause me to go on a spree as well.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Who even listens to a quack that got eaten by Homer but those who do (the video game industry) should sue his *ss for slander.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
The VT shooter was a piker. Check out some of these other mass killings:
Bath, Michigan school shootings, 1927…45
Julio Gonzalez, Bronx, ……………..87
Jack Gilbert Graham, 1955 …………..44
David Burke , 1987 …………………43
Then of course you have your serial killers who kill only one or two at a time…but the numbers really add up:
Wayne Williams, Atlanta …………29
Randy Steven Kraft ……………..67
Ted Bundy …………………..30~50
Gary Leon Ridgeway ……………..48
John Wayne Gacy ………………..33
But all these guys are rank amateurs compared to the pros…Communist governments:
USSR (Stalin, et al)…….61,911,000
China (Mao and crew) ……35,238,000
Nazi Germany …………..20,946,000
Viet Nam (Ho Chi Mihn)……1,697,000
Cambodia ……………….2,035,000
(Thanks to US leftists for the 2 above)
Poland………………….1,585,000
YugoSlavia ……………..1,072,000
Castro & Che ……………..513,000
Yet some a**hole is going to call for the disarming of the populace….go figger.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Okay, so, sociopaths and psychopaths can allegedly be triggered into acts of violence by video games, so let’s ban video games for everyone.
That’s the same logic as: people with peanut allergies can die if they eat a peanut, so let’s ban all peanut products for everyone.
Hey, Dr. Phil? What video games did Charles Whitman, the Texas University Tower Sniper of 1966, play? What video games did Andrew Kehoe, the 55¼-year-old man who committed the single worst school massacre in American history (even yesterday’s Virginia Tech disaster and Columbine [i]combined[/i] don’t match it!) in May of 1927, play? Considering that he would’ve been a child in the 1880s and a teenager in the 1990s, what violent TV shows did he watch? Or movies (even Westerns)? Or even what comic books did he read in his childhood (Superman, the first comic book superhero, was still over a decade away from his first published appearance when Kehoe committed the massacre, let alone when he as a kid!)
Oh, and for the record, Kehoe didn’t shoot anyone. He blew up a school.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
“home defense, someone is a whole heck of a lot less likely to come rob you knowing full well you have an assault rifle, shotgun, or pistol laying about. It is a deterrent. Gun control would just mean theives will be armed and you will be capped.”
This is just in the states, as well, it’s not a deterrent. It just means the most likely outcome will be one of someone getting shot to death.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
@Carbonatedgravy
In my opinion…if you’re watching FOX News, you are either A. Doing it for some reason totally unrelated to actual news, like…just to kill some time, or B. So one-sided Christian Republican, you’d agree with anything Jack Thompson says anyhow. Basically, in other words…yeah, I think their target audience ARE idiots. Not because I’m a liberal and oppose most of their views, but rather, because those kinds of radicals follow so blindly, that…yeah, it’s like, why not try thinking for yourself and open your eyes, instead of letting your priest and your political party tell you how to think.
Don’t get me wrong, though. I do respect competence, even if it’s from someone with a view I don’t share.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
How ignorant…
I have nothing to say to him.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Steve Mitton:
“The VT shooter was a piker. Check out some of these other mass killings:
Bath, Michigan school shootings, 1927…45”
The Bath, Michigan massacre was the one by Andrew Kehoe that I just referenced. It was not a school shooting. He fired only one bullet, and that wasn’t aimed at anyone and did not hit anyone. It was shot into his final bomb in his truck, detonating it and killing himself, the superintendent of schools he so hated, and several bystanders including at least one child who had managed to escape his other bombs.
Also, Nazi Germany was not a communist government. It was national socialist. Technically, there’s no such thing as a “communist government.” Communism is an economic syste, not a political one. The opposite of communism is capitalism, not democracy. The USSR, China, etc. were totalitarian dictatorships over socialist / communist economies.
Other than that, good post!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
ComaLite,
Let’s say we actually DO ban video games. Yeah, I know you weren’t serious, but let’s take that step.
What all the agenda seekers and quacks fail to mention is:
If you ban 1 thing that might set off a small group of mentally disturbed individuals:
(A) There are still going to be OTHER mentally disturbed individuals who will, and have been, set off by other things.
(B) Those that would have been set off by that which was banned will still be set off by something else simply because they are already in a position to be set off by SOMETHING.
So, you’re right. Banning something, anything, simply because it sets off a few individuals within the overall population is more like killing the patient to cure the hangnail.
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
April 17th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
[/B]
[QUOTE]”You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high.”[/QUOTE]
He says “mix it…”, so it doesn’t seem like he was trying to blame video games, unless when they are played by psychopaths and sociopaths.
But I would really like to ask him this hypothetical question - if reading about psychiatrist who trivializes American national tragedy by blaming video games for it can piss a person so much they decide to kill someone, would that mean psychiatry is to blame for the murder?
April 17th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Hummmm, I think it what caused it all, was the shooter was listening to Judas Priest Backwards, and of course KISS (Knights in Satan’s Service) Thank god ole Tipper Gore saved us young kids by putting Mature Labels on the Records!
Ah the good ole days!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Creationists use common sense to rail against scientific theory? If anything I had to do more scientific research to believe creation than I did when learning evilution back in school. Now theres a common sense scientific theory that has caused billions of dollars to be wasted….
April 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I’ve always known that Dr. Phil was a quack and charlatan after hearing how he “helped” some fellow 911 dispatchers a few years ago. This diarrhea that he spewed forth on Larry King last night is just further proof. I’m sure hOprah will be vomiting the same crap at some point since Dr. Quack said it.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I’m a reporter at the New York Daily News writing on violent video games and kids, and would love to interview parents for their take on whether it can be harmful for kids to play these games…it’s tied in with our coverage of the Virginia Tech massacre. Would love to hear from you. My number at the paper is 212-210-2245. thanks much!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
@ Wolf
I can’t comment real specifically on the history of FOX news since quite honestly I know little about them and only understand that they have a generally conservative agenda. So I’m not going to argue with your interpretation of their target audience simply because I’m not informed enough to do so.
One thing I’m certain of though is that FOX is a major network and a lot of people heard that interview and would naturally be inclined to take it at face value. I’m sure you would have the radicals who would follow Jack Thompson blindly even if the news were presented fairly, but you also have people who identify more with conservative politics, but are still fair minded individuals. Both sides have blind prejudice followers, and both sides have open-minded progressive thinkers who seek genuine truth.
Labels are a little too dismissive and it’s not fair to clump everyone into a group, even if they are watching a network with an obvious agenda.
I don’t really want to keep clogging this thread with this since it’s only semi-related, but I do stand by my point. I encourage other gamers to write to FOX news and express their disapproval of the damaging and one-sided Jack Thompson interview they aired just after the shootings took place yesterday.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
If only we had put a stop to video games, then the white chapel murders would never have happened! Or the crusades! Or WW1-2 Or Vietnam!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
“This is all because of the messages, planted in our minds, by that Degenatron in the 80’s!” - a phrase from a radio show on GTA: SA
“I wonder what’ll happen when Oprah realizes Dr. Phil is full of sh*t” - John Stewart
No one’s really suprised by this. I’m sure everyone’s smoked something bad one time or another and thought “man video games is the devil”, most of us just don’t have a way to get on TV before our heads clear and we go back to playing Katamari Damacy. It’s not like this guy has a reputation for quality diagnostics. We just need to stop taking these people seriously, stop pretending they have a clue, there’s simply nothing else that can be done.
I mean, I know it SEEMS like busting a cap in them is the perfect solution since I’ve been playing GTA this morning, but somehow, for some reason, I don’t intend to act on my violent urges. It’s almost as if there’s some crucial difference between a place every time you’re shot you’re revived at the hospital moments later with no ill effects, and here.
Well, at any rate I hope everyone takes this to heart instead of buying Dr. Phil’s new book “A Comprehensive List of Things That Make Psycho’s Violent and How To Dispose of Them” and the follow-up later this year “So You’ve Sold All Your Possessions, What Now?”
April 17th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
So, how would the esteemed doctor (and Jack Thompson) account for Jack the Ripper, Bonnie and Clyde, Mobsters of the prohibition era, Hitler, Stalin, and hundreds of others that committed similar crimes BEFORE video games? Games are not doing this, people are doing this…sick people, but people non-the-less, and this stuff happened before video games and even television had been invented!!!
April 17th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
@ Rosemary Black
There are a number of Psychological studies available. Interviewing parents on wether or not videogames are harmful is like interviewing parents about the threat of Great Whites after the movie Jaws.
Parents are not experts on child psychology. The vast majority have been programmed by the scare tactics shoveled by the media for increased ratings. Interviewing terrified parents will only compound the irrational fear. But hey, you already new that didn’t you. The odds of getting an objective, fact based report from scared, unqualified people is laughable. Thanks for trying to include us into your propoganda hate machine.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
What an asshole….he blames video games for those killings. What about the shooting that took place in 1977 or 1979 was in in Texas when there wasn’t nearly any “power of suggestibility” video games had. Or Jim Jones for euthanizing over 1000 people in Guam….He points the fingers at video games because he has no one else to point the finger too and im sure his political party backs him up on endorsements for siding with them its all politics.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
If you really want to get in to the odds of him being a gamer, consider how many people in the 16-25 demographic play video games. We were raised on the damn things; they’re going to have a high penetration in our society. So of course there’s gonna be a strong likelihood that the gunman in question played video games; it would be almost a statistical anomaly if he wasn’t.
One of the major things you learn in any good stats or science class is the ability to recognize actual correlation and simple coincidence.
Perhaps “Dr.” Phil should’ve spent more time on his math homework…
/the only person video games have ever inspired me to kill is JT
April 17th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
I work in the industry as a developer and I don’t see his comments as particularly damaging. In fact I think he’s right. He’s not blaming games but he is suggesting that the inundation of mass violence on society mixed with an unstable suggestible personality is a recipe for a problem. He even suggests that this a combination that we’re going to have to deal with and I think he’s right. Saying a problem person should be watched for their exposure to violence sounds like a reasonable start to me.
-L
April 17th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
[…] That being said, Jack Thompson and Dr Phil are idiots. The bodies aren’t even cold, yet these two “experts” put the blame on violent video games. Call of the police investigation! The answer was under our noses the entire time! If you’re under 30 years of age and snap and start killing people, video games are to blame. Nevermind the fact that according to most of the reports I’ve read don’t mention video games at all. Infact, they mention that he was a disturbed individual who probably had some sort of mental condition. […]
April 17th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Why is everyone here putting Dr Phil down? He has a point, vidio games are and have been invloved with the decline of our culture for a long time. Wakeup gamers.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
…DID the kid play video games? I thought they couldn’t even confirm if he was a student or not.
But I think what he might be TRYING to say is the society itself is going downhill, which I agree. Honestly you’d think that video games reflect society, not the other way around. Why else do they sometimes change the content of a game when it is sent to other countries?
Anyways this kind of reaction is completely expected. I hope they actually investigate all circumstances leading up to this rampage and not just write it off as him being a gamer. If we don’t find the true influences behind these tragedies they are just going to keep happening.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
and no mention of Bush, the war, the senseless killing of our troops .. the fact that most of the US is a bunch of gun toting hicks that probably think 32 is a low number due to the fact they have better aim ..
April 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
VTECH JUST KICKED IN YO
April 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Hypothical #1
A loving parent (say Dr. Phil for example) who teaches his/her kid the differences between right and wrong, to be kind to your neighbors all the while letting the kid play the most violent of video games.
Hypothical #2
Irresponsible parents who let the kids do whatever they want, be rude to their peers, teachers and society in general and suffer no consequences for their actions no matter how terrible yet are not allowed to play any video games at all.
Question: Isn’t it obvious by now that hypothical # 2 is the scenario where that kid is the one who is most likely to snap and go on a shooting rampage?
Yet, if we add everything together, bad parenting, anti-social behavior, loner, likes to watch violent movie or play violent video games, all the media outlet and Dr. Phil here starts pointing to video games as the most likely culprit.
April 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
@dabomb
i dont know if your joking or not but if you are not joking ive got news for you: our society has been declining much longer than 15 or so years. you wake up.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
@Rosemary
Not to be rude but your average parent is not qualified to give a “take” unless you are going for pure emotional opinions to use as quotes to make your story more interesting.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I play with my dick all the time. By Dr. Phil’s logic, I should want to go out in the world and play with other dude’s dicks. I hardly ever do that. Dr. Phil is stupid.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
so video games have been around for 15 years or so… or is that just how far back you can go because you are 17? Video games are just another piece of it, I said INVOLVED not TOTAL BLAME. If video games had been around in the 50’s they would have been like TV and movies at the time: less violent. As our entertainment has regressed so has society- it is plain to see. Now which comes first- chicken or egg- well I say liberal culture.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
That’s right. And furthermore, we should take all the jobs away from the women and minorites and place government censors on art, because if someone’s expression leaves a wrong impression in someone’s mind, a mind that is already troubled, it’s the artists fault instead of the one who goes around, murdering innocent people. Also let’s not place any blame on the health care system that were hardly dilligent in their responsibility to care for these people once they have been referred. The killer at the VT massacre had indeed been referred to counseling. But of course it’s art’s fault for all the troubles in the world, not the people who actually pull the triggers.
Heck, let’s just burn the constitution while we’re at it. No more freedom of expression. No more expression. Let’s not help people, let’s not criticize the powers-that-be if we disagree with them. Let’s censor everything that might rub a right-winged prude complainer the wrong way.
Let’s all go back to Ronald Reagan’s 50’s. In which case, I simply recommend you watch Blue Velvet.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Dr. Fraud, I mean Phil, strikes again.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Where did I say anything about censorship?
So the killer was referred for counseling- why? Because of his art! Which way do you want it? Would you have all artist subject to such review? You use an argument that goes against your argument.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Does it really seem that silly to look for signs that something is wrong with a person?
The trigger behind something doesn’t matter that much, but there are almost always things that people should have noticed before such a thing happened. Games aren’t really to blame, and neither the ease with which someone in the US can get hold of a gun. The real blame should fall on those around him who could have spotted that something wasn’t right, if it’s true that he sought help but didn’t get it, then there is something that definitely needs reforming. Places where mentally unstable people can get help and care are needed, perhaps more than ever now, and yet it seems that there are fewer than ever.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
“You cannot tell me - common sense tells you that if these kids are [continuous new coverage about violent crimes], where they’re [watching some dateline special on Columbine], it’s glamorized on the big screen, it’s become part of the fiber of our society. You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high.”
It’s amazing how the media never makes THIS argument…
April 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
So you are comparing Bundy to this? What is wrong with you? Obviously the US has the means (guns) for these crimes to be commited. That’s not going to change anytime soon.
The problem with people who defend video games is that it is all they want to look at. It is not just video games it is the culture as a whole where parents are too busy (both working or single parents) to make the right decisions for their childrens’ development. Without the parents spending, or allowing their childeren to spend money on violent forms of entertainment then, by economics, there would be less of it around. People don’t make these things for “art” they make them for money.
April 17th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
so because I played Duck Hunt when I was a kid, I’m going to go on a rampage because of my insatiable bloodlust?
April 17th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Why do they keep calling this the deadliest school massacre in US history? That happened in 1927 when some guy blew up a school because he didnt want to pay taxes. By their logic, taxes - not video games - would be the culprit.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/bath/index_1.html
April 17th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Just becuase the kid is South Korean? What an awful stereotype!
Dr. Phil? More like Dr. Racist!
April 17th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I write stories about murder; does that mean I’m going to be a murderer? I watch movies involving twisted deaths; does that mean I am going to reenact them? I play violent videogames; does that mean I am going to go around on a shooting spree? It’s stupid! The greatest irony that I find is that many people escape to videogames just to stop them from hurting a person. If I get really angry at a person to the point that I want to punch them, I play Resident Evil and shoot zombies in the head. That’s all and I don’t have the urge to hurt that person anymore.
As many have mentioned about videogames being aimed at, what about television? What about music? In order for you to play the majority of games out there, you need a gaming station. Then you need a television> Where as I can cut the middle man out and just watch a very violent movie on the television.
@Ted: The gun laws in Virginia are very poor. Anyone can get a gun there too easily. It’s like that comment in Bowling for Columbine: sign up for a bank account, get a free gun.
When it comes to kids, I blame the parents. The parents should be the ones that tell their kids what is real and not. They should also be the ones to check out about what their kids are watching and playing. My brother is 12 and wanted the Scarface videogame. My mom was ready to buy it for him until I mentioned that it was based upon the movie and she didn’t buy it. But, now you have these movie theater workers who allow kids to go into rated R movies and they are 10 and these people that work at videogame stores that allow a 10 year old to buy GTA. There is a reason for a rating system and people are just ignoring it.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
I knew it. As soon as this thing broke out, I knew someone was going to blame video games. Always happens…
@chickie
Of course, except in that case you’d have an insatiable bloodlust against dogs with smirks on their faces.
April 17th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
@ Dabomb
Hi, nice to see a new face around here. First, I want to agree with your initial statement: Dr. Phil’s interview really isn’t bad. He makes a valid point about the potentially deadly combination of violent media, unstable personality, and rage.
But he leaves out what you so astutely refer to: the easy access to firearms for the criminally inclined. That adds the capability of one disturbed individual’s vendetta against “the rich” or “decadance,” to become mass-murder.
But in blaming “Liberal Culture” is where we differ - I could just as easily say the simple fact that 50’s era conservatives’ unwillingness to change created this liberal movement you seemingly detest.
Instead of going round the Liberal/Conservative perspective debate, which gets us nowhere, why don’t we look at the evidence in this case? So far, I’ve seen nothing from any investigator that even mentions video games. The people who did mention them, specifically an activist lawyer and a pseudo-psychologist, are doing so purely for their own gains, and should be taken with that in mind. I personally detest those who exploit the mass-murder of students for their own gains, and that explains the hateful reaction Dr. Phil gets here and elsewhere.
Anyway, who takes Dr. Phil seriously?
April 17th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
[…] Re: Deadliest school shooting in US history Haha, ladies and gentlemen, a new ‘popular’ idiot has arisen __________________ She chose to walk alone, though others wondered why Refused to look before her, kept eyes cast upwards towards the sky. LastFM DA […]