April 17, 2007
In the wake of yesterday's horrific shootings at Virginia Tech, gadfly attorney Jack Thompson was not the only one who was quick to place blame on violent video games.Noted T.V. shrink Dr. Phil McGraw appeared on CNN's Larry King Live last night to discuss the rampage. During the course of the program, the following exchange took place:
LARRY KING: Why, though - OK, you want to kill someone, you're crazed, you're a little nuts, girlfriend drops you, why do you kill innocent people?... Dr. McGraw, are they treatable?
DR. PHIL: Well, Larry, every situation is different... The question really is can we spot them. And the problem is we are programming these people as a society. You cannot tell me - common sense tells you that if these kids are playing video games, where they're on a mass killing spree in a video game, it's glamorized on the big screen, it's become part of the fiber of our society. You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high.
And we're going to have to start dealing with that. We're going to have to start addressing those issues and recognizing that the mass murders of tomorrow are the children of today that are being programmed with this massive violence overdose.
Full transcript here.
Comments
If that is really his writing than he was really messed up.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html
Why is everyone here putting Dr Phil down? He has a point, vidio games are and have been invloved with the decline of our culture for a long time. Wakeup gamers.
Because he's using the coffins of 32 victims as a soapbox for his behavioral theories. Taking psychological advice from hack talk shows host has more to do with the decline of our culture than "vidio games."
You'll never hear statisitics like that come from the mouths of the likes of Dr. Phil McQuack and Hack Thompson.
According to government statistics found here:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm
Violent crime has steadily decreased since 1994, reaching an all time low in 2005. What year was Doom released? Oh...December of 1993.
So...if the era of "violent video games" stems from 1993 - Present, why is violent crime declining and why did it reach an all time low in 2005?
A longggg time ago, a wife was on his show who was pissed at the fact that his husband was playing halo 2 with her 2 year old kid. (rofl...it's wrong..try atleast 13, buddy.)
Dr. Phil said that games couldn't cause all out violence, but could lead to increased agression in kids...he also stated that there was no link between murders and games in studies..
But now..
Turncoat F***!!!!! 0.o
A publisher might, a dev might, but the individual people are not. The grind ain't worth the money unless you really love making games. The only reason I want to go near game design is the fact that I enjoy making games. Unless I make it for 10 or 15 years in the industry and land a higher up job I'll never make half of what my parents make.
Not to say that I'm going to be living from pay-check to pay-check, but I won't be rolling in the dough. So please your gonna have to come up with something besides "Its only for hte money".
Hi, nice to see a new face around here. First, I want to agree with your initial statement: Dr. Phil's interview really isn't bad. He makes a valid point about the potentially deadly combination of violent media, unstable personality, and rage.
But he leaves out what you so astutely refer to: the easy access to firearms for the criminally inclined. That adds the capability of one disturbed individual's vendetta against "the rich" or "decadance," to become mass-murder.
But in blaming "Liberal Culture" is where we differ - I could just as easily say the simple fact that 50's era conservatives' unwillingness to change created this liberal movement you seemingly detest.
Instead of going round the Liberal/Conservative perspective debate, which gets us nowhere, why don't we look at the evidence in this case? So far, I've seen nothing from any investigator that even mentions video games. The people who did mention them, specifically an activist lawyer and a pseudo-psychologist, are doing so purely for their own gains, and should be taken with that in mind. I personally detest those who exploit the mass-murder of students for their own gains, and that explains the hateful reaction Dr. Phil gets here and elsewhere.
Anyway, who takes Dr. Phil seriously?
@chickie
Of course, except in that case you'd have an insatiable bloodlust against dogs with smirks on their faces.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/bath/index_1.html
Dr. Phil? More like Dr. Racist!
The problem with people who defend video games is that it is all they want to look at. It is not just video games it is the culture as a whole where parents are too busy (both working or single parents) to make the right decisions for their childrens' development. Without the parents spending, or allowing their childeren to spend money on violent forms of entertainment then, by economics, there would be less of it around. People don't make these things for "art" they make them for money.
The trigger behind something doesn't matter that much, but there are almost always things that people should have noticed before such a thing happened. Games aren't really to blame, and neither the ease with which someone in the US can get hold of a gun. The real blame should fall on those around him who could have spotted that something wasn't right, if it's true that he sought help but didn't get it, then there is something that definitely needs reforming. Places where mentally unstable people can get help and care are needed, perhaps more than ever now, and yet it seems that there are fewer than ever.
As many have mentioned about videogames being aimed at, what about television? What about music? In order for you to play the majority of games out there, you need a gaming station. Then you need a television> Where as I can cut the middle man out and just watch a very violent movie on the television.
@Ted: The gun laws in Virginia are very poor. Anyone can get a gun there too easily. It's like that comment in Bowling for Columbine: sign up for a bank account, get a free gun.
When it comes to kids, I blame the parents. The parents should be the ones that tell their kids what is real and not. They should also be the ones to check out about what their kids are watching and playing. My brother is 12 and wanted the Scarface videogame. My mom was ready to buy it for him until I mentioned that it was based upon the movie and she didn't buy it. But, now you have these movie theater workers who allow kids to go into rated R movies and they are 10 and these people that work at videogame stores that allow a 10 year old to buy GTA. There is a reason for a rating system and people are just ignoring it.
It's amazing how the media never makes THIS argument...
So the killer was referred for counseling- why? Because of his art! Which way do you want it? Would you have all artist subject to such review? You use an argument that goes against your argument.
Heck, let's just burn the constitution while we're at it. No more freedom of expression. No more expression. Let's not help people, let's not criticize the powers-that-be if we disagree with them. Let's censor everything that might rub a right-winged prude complainer the wrong way.
Let's all go back to Ronald Reagan's 50's. In which case, I simply recommend you watch Blue Velvet.
But I think what he might be TRYING to say is the society itself is going downhill, which I agree. Honestly you'd think that video games reflect society, not the other way around. Why else do they sometimes change the content of a game when it is sent to other countries?
Anyways this kind of reaction is completely expected. I hope they actually investigate all circumstances leading up to this rampage and not just write it off as him being a gamer. If we don't find the true influences behind these tragedies they are just going to keep happening.
Not to be rude but your average parent is not qualified to give a "take" unless you are going for pure emotional opinions to use as quotes to make your story more interesting.
-L
A loving parent (say Dr. Phil for example) who teaches his/her kid the differences between right and wrong, to be kind to your neighbors all the while letting the kid play the most violent of video games.
Hypothical #2
Irresponsible parents who let the kids do whatever they want, be rude to their peers, teachers and society in general and suffer no consequences for their actions no matter how terrible yet are not allowed to play any video games at all.
Question: Isn't it obvious by now that hypothical # 2 is the scenario where that kid is the one who is most likely to snap and go on a shooting rampage?
Yet, if we add everything together, bad parenting, anti-social behavior, loner, likes to watch violent movie or play violent video games, all the media outlet and Dr. Phil here starts pointing to video games as the most likely culprit.
i dont know if your joking or not but if you are not joking ive got news for you: our society has been declining much longer than 15 or so years. you wake up.
[QUOTE]"You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high."[/QUOTE]
He says "mix it...", so it doesn't seem like he was trying to blame video games, unless when they are played by psychopaths and sociopaths.
But I would really like to ask him this hypothetical question - if reading about psychiatrist who trivializes American national tragedy by blaming video games for it can piss a person so much they decide to kill someone, would that mean psychiatry is to blame for the murder?
One of the major things you learn in any good stats or science class is the ability to recognize actual correlation and simple coincidence.
Perhaps "Dr." Phil should've spent more time on his math homework...
/the only person video games have ever inspired me to kill is JT
You know Phil, knowing a bit about the history of violence with or without guns saves you from sounding like a braying jackass with an axe to grind and a finger to point when you go off on your inane ramblings.
I think the good "Doctor" (pfft, what an insult to anybody who actually graduated from med school) just mad because he never had to coordination to get high score on Tempest at the pizza parlor and people used to make fun of him for it.
There are a number of Psychological studies available. Interviewing parents on wether or not videogames are harmful is like interviewing parents about the threat of Great Whites after the movie Jaws.
Parents are not experts on child psychology. The vast majority have been programmed by the scare tactics shoveled by the media for increased ratings. Interviewing terrified parents will only compound the irrational fear. But hey, you already new that didn't you. The odds of getting an objective, fact based report from scared, unqualified people is laughable. Thanks for trying to include us into your propoganda hate machine.
"I wonder what'll happen when Oprah realizes Dr. Phil is full of sh*t" - John Stewart
No one's really suprised by this. I'm sure everyone's smoked something bad one time or another and thought "man video games is the devil", most of us just don't have a way to get on TV before our heads clear and we go back to playing Katamari Damacy. It's not like this guy has a reputation for quality diagnostics. We just need to stop taking these people seriously, stop pretending they have a clue, there's simply nothing else that can be done.
I mean, I know it SEEMS like busting a cap in them is the perfect solution since I've been playing GTA this morning, but somehow, for some reason, I don't intend to act on my violent urges. It's almost as if there's some crucial difference between a place every time you're shot you're revived at the hospital moments later with no ill effects, and here.
Well, at any rate I hope everyone takes this to heart instead of buying Dr. Phil's new book "A Comprehensive List of Things That Make Psycho's Violent and How To Dispose of Them" and the follow-up later this year "So You've Sold All Your Possessions, What Now?"
I can't comment real specifically on the history of FOX news since quite honestly I know little about them and only understand that they have a generally conservative agenda. So I'm not going to argue with your interpretation of their target audience simply because I'm not informed enough to do so.
One thing I'm certain of though is that FOX is a major network and a lot of people heard that interview and would naturally be inclined to take it at face value. I'm sure you would have the radicals who would follow Jack Thompson blindly even if the news were presented fairly, but you also have people who identify more with conservative politics, but are still fair minded individuals. Both sides have blind prejudice followers, and both sides have open-minded progressive thinkers who seek genuine truth.
Labels are a little too dismissive and it's not fair to clump everyone into a group, even if they are watching a network with an obvious agenda.
I don't really want to keep clogging this thread with this since it's only semi-related, but I do stand by my point. I encourage other gamers to write to FOX news and express their disapproval of the damaging and one-sided Jack Thompson interview they aired just after the shootings took place yesterday.
In my opinion...if you're watching FOX News, you are either A. Doing it for some reason totally unrelated to actual news, like...just to kill some time, or B. So one-sided Christian Republican, you'd agree with anything Jack Thompson says anyhow. Basically, in other words...yeah, I think their target audience ARE idiots. Not because I'm a liberal and oppose most of their views, but rather, because those kinds of radicals follow so blindly, that...yeah, it's like, why not try thinking for yourself and open your eyes, instead of letting your priest and your political party tell you how to think.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do respect competence, even if it's from someone with a view I don't share.
Ah the good ole days!