April 19, 2007 -
Despite overwhelming video evidence that Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung Hui was an angry, sociopathic lunatic, controversial Miami attorney Jack Thompson has been getting air time on national news programs this week, insisting that video games were behind Cho's rampage.But while some talking heads let Thompson's claims go unchallenged, at least one mainstream media pundit has pointed out the flaws in the controversial attorney's argument. MSNBC's Chris Matthews had Thompson on his Hardball program last evening, an appearance touted ahead of time by Thompson in an e-mail to GamePolitics.
Of the Hardball appearance, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Peter Hartlaub writes:
Video games have already taken enough of an unwarranted hit this week. An online Washington Post report that Cho played the first person shooter Counter-Strike - which was later removed from the story - unleashed the typical of blame-the-video-games rhetoric, along with appearances from anti-game activist lawyer Jack Thompson, who should (have) learned his lesson from his embarrassing Bully fiasco...
(Hardball host Chris) Matthews more than redeemed himself... nailing Thompson down during a "Hardball" appearance and exposing the fact that Thompson had nothing to back up his claims.
While we didn't catch Thompson's Hardball appearance, comments made to GamePolitics by the anti-game attorney seem to confirm Hartlaub's impression:
Typical Chris Matthews, which is why he is repeatedly made sport of on SNL. You survive Hardball, which I did.
Kotaku has video. From the show transcript:
MATTHEWS: I asked the (killer's) suite mate... He said there was... not a strong subculture of violent video games. And they had no real evidence that... Cho Seung-Hui, was one of these kids involved with that sort of game.
THOMPSON: Well, they are inconsistent in their comments, Chris...
MATTHEWS: Well, they didn‘t see any evidence of that... Tell me about “Counter-Strike,” because it‘s a strong theory of yours. What is it?
THOMPSON: Well, it‘s not a theory.
MATTHEWS: Well, it‘s a theory that it had something to do with this case.
THOMPSON: That‘s right... His own suite mates in Blacksburg said that he was on the computer all the time. He wasn‘t downloading music. He was playing this game.
MATTHEWS: Well, we have — that‘s not what we just heard... We just talked to his—one of his suite mates, who said...
THOMPSON: He doesn‘t know.
MATTHEWS: ... when he looked on the screen, he said he just saw him writing linear English, just writing...
THOMPSON: When he looked on the screen... Chris, you can‘t do something this well the first time you do it. And the fact is, it wasn‘t the first time. He was in a hyper-reality situation, in virtual reality...
MATTHEWS: How does the game prepare or drill him in the execution of 32 people?
THOMPSON: It drills you and gives you scenarios on how to kill them. It gets you to kill with your heart rate lower...
MATTHEWS: I know it is a theory. And it is a theory in this case. When was the most recent testimony, and when is it applied to, that he was involved with “Counter-Strike,” the video game, that Cho was?
THOMPSON: Cho? His high school friends. And, typically, when...
MATTHEWS: OK. Well, he is a fourth-year student at Virginia Tech.
Comments
Well I made that last part up but it's what happens. *gets the tar vat out for Jack*
Yes, I was being ironic and sarcastic. And, yes, it is true men are more likely to commit crime than women. All the same, that doesn't mean all men are criminals. Also, many women have committed horrible crimes (the one who drowned her children in the bath-tub; some women killers are known collectively as Black Widows because they marry than kill their husbands and repeat). Most states have prisons strictly for women. Like you stated there is a difference between correlation and causation.
So even if JT were right about the guy playing games, at all, that wouldn't mean that games made him kill anyone. After-all there have been multiple people who have killed or had people killed without games influencing them or playing them. Hitler or Cleopatra for example.
hmmm maybe i should find a shooting range place around here and test this theory about games training you to use guns since in 2 days i've aquired 1256 kills In gta 3
MSNBC had an article about the Hardball episode...
"The shooting on the Virginia Tech campus was only hours old, police hadn't even identified the gunman, and yet already the perpetrator had been fingered and was in the midst of being skewered in the media. Video games.... Or so Jack Thompson told Fox News and, in the days that followed, would continue to tell anyone who'd listen. "
You might have survived Hardball, but your integrity died.
Jack, I dunno if you can read this, but here's a few facts for you:
1.) Counter-Strike was originally a free-to-download mod to the critically acclaimed FPS game HalfLife, made by Valve.
2.) Counter-Strike Source, the sequel to Counter-Strike, was made by the CS team now on Valve's payroll. It is a mod for HalfLife 2, and is called "Source" because that is the name of the game Engine, in order to differentiate it from its predecessor.
How about you do a little research next time, eh? You can't make good arguments if you don't know your subject matter, and you obviously don't. This whole open letter thing? A waste of time.
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/13296/Jack-Thompson-Blames-Bill-Gates-for-...
Well, the fact is that Cho probably played Counterstrike when no one was looking.
Well, the fact is that gamers are illiterate, overweight losers who spend all their free time in the dark in front of a screen.
Well, the fact is that animation and video games are only for the kiddies.
Well, the fact is that the White album contained secret messages intended solely to be interpreted by Charles Manson.
Well, the fact is that Kirk is better than Picard.
Well, the fact is that green peppers are incredibly nasty.
Well, the fact is that Rock n' Roll is corrupting the youth of the nation with all its girations and double entendres and so on.
Well, the fact is that the sun goes around the earth.
Well, the fact is that I am 100% correct about absolutely everything ever.
Just making sure all the facts are straight.
"[...]Robert Steinhaeuser, who literally trained on the Microsoft on-line, hyper-violent shooter game, Counterstrike. I mentioned your company’s game by name."
Yep. The tubes of the ebays are a great thing. Well played, Laddy Jack. Well played.
That's JT's M.O.
Does anyone know who that quote is attributed to?
But I did tack down the URL, by following back to Game Almighty. Apparently Laddy Jack does have some trouble understanding the ebays. And the idea of a browser cache.
Sorry Laddy Jack, that article doesn't make reference to Microsoft-published Counterstrike. Not that I can imagine why it was excised. It couldn't possibly be because investigators found no games at all in the shooter's room. Or that the statement was flat out inaccurate to begin with.
No no. I'm sure that the Post is in on the grand conspiracy. Are the Gettys involved with the Post? Because, you know, they're in... The Pentavirate. It's a well known fact, Laddy Jack, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
He's more than welcome to go after Microsoft. Gates and his army of lawyers will chew him up and spit him out faster than you can say Jack Robinson.
I guess at this point it's dawning on him that his crusade and his career are coming to an end and he figures, "If I'm going to go, I'll go out in style." And going up against Bill Gates has kamikaze run written all over it.
"Banzai!" Jack.
Every time I hear him rant on using the same false evidence, I wonder... "Who believes this BS??" I never really form a bias towards anything unless the evidence is overwhelming, and nothing that Jack has said showed that video games have ANYTHING to do with some guy going insane and killing 1-2 dozens of people.
Lastly, how can Counter-Strike teach you how to lower your heart rate? No simulation can imitate the recoil, sound, and feel of a real gun. People don't die with a grunt and fall, they remain alive for a short while, begging for their lives. There is no game that can match that gruesome reality.
I wonder if Jack can go any lower than this. But hey, he has the balls to do anything, but no brains or info to back it up.
~Akalic
1) The game must have caused him to snap because we know from the past that games cause people to snap....
It's a circular argument - no backup. It MUST be true according to Thompson, and doesn't need to be proven - because he argued it in the past without proving it.
He also states that 80% of college males play games like this - but they're not out shooting people.. I really don't think this guy lives in the same world as the rest of us.
(or has ever played Counterstrike - which is a game where you kill terrorists....)
-Peter
Not sure if you were trying to be ironic, but there is definitely a correlation between having a penis and the commission of violent crime. Men are many times more likely to murder than women, for example. But the point remains, correlation is not the same thing as causality. No one's suggesting that we ban the Y chromosome...so far.
Counter-strike is a game were TERROIST and COUNTER TERROIST fight each other out. I think thats a pretty noble kind of game(depending on side) but still he doesnt explain it well.
The best part about the whole interview was at the end when he said that one kid trained on SCMRPG. That games graphics is compairable to poke'mon for the gameboy. How does that train someone for real life killing?
Meaning life or credibility here? Because I don't think the latter did.
Chris Matthews didn't need to play much Hardball to make Jacky Boy look foolish.
So Jacky Boy didn't survive at all.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sd0pbuhsQQE
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”
Hmm... that kinda-sorta sounds like the concept of "The Big Lie".
Anyway, I watched that little Hardball clip...
Matthews: "You don't know that, though!"
That line alone pretty much blew half of Thompson's bullcrap out of the water. (*thumbs up to Chris Matthews!*)
Idiot.
Am I the only one who detected a hint of jealousy in this statement?
Let's break it down. Chris Matthews is parodied on SNL because he is SOMEBODY. Jack, conversely, is not parodied on SNL (or even MADtv for that matter) because he is NOBODY!
And that, boys and girls, is what angers Jack more than anything else; the fact that he isn't more famous. One need only look at his media grandstanding to know the man is an attention starved publicity whore with an ego more fragile than his legal knowledge.
Poor Jack. Only a few people know who is, and those that do think he's retarded (my apologies to the mentally challenged for comparing you to Jack Thompson).
Wait did Thompson just say they were inconsistent with their comments? Pot calling the kettle black me thinks.
I'm still kinda worried. They didn't find any games with the search warrant but we don't know what the CDs were and what is on his PC. Like Jack said, probably 80% of college students play games. That's a pretty good chance that he does. Still, even if he never talked to his roommates, it's likely they would know if he played games. I doubt he'd try to hide it.
This just in! I don't mean to alarm you, but... the killer had a penis. Now, we'd like to advise that parents watch their children with penises, as we still aren't sure what effect this has on them. If you need a control we recommend that you compare them to the children without them. If there are any major differences in personality or behavior, we advise you to contact a doctor or psychiatric professional.
@ InsidiousMrMoo
Thats like someone arguing with you about what you ate for breakfast. “I had a poptart” JT: “No, you had waffles and bacon.”
Damn, that was funny. I think I'll start using this with my friends. :P
@ Keaton2008
I get what you're saying, but i think that's part of the joke.
I laughed at this very hard, thank you.
hey! maybe my hilary duff cd's have magical powers!
Lmao
---
> Duffy’s confused?
Gamers have him outnumbered and there are only so many hours in which a single man can fabricate falsehoods.
As Starsmore said, the washington post orginally did mention counterstike but took it down... From what i gather, the reason for this is because they did find out that Cho played counterstike, however they later realized that the information they had was about Cho back when he was in high school... meaning they found out he played counterstike about 3 or so years ago, but they didn't know if he was still playing the game in recent years; so they revised the article... With the information they had, they could say that he used to play counterstike, but not that he currently played countersrike...
In this interview, Jack in his desperate attempt to pin this on video games is relying on that old information to claim that Cho still played counterstike in his college years, claiming that gamers don't just stopped doing those kinds of things... ofcourse, i know from personal experience that a gamer can just stop like Cho did... i used to OBSECIVELY play MMO's when i was in high school, but over the summer before i went to college, i stopped playing MMOs... i figured it was for the best... grant it, now even when the police have said that they didn't find any video games, Jack still makes the claim he was a counterstike player... Man, this is sounding a lot like that time with Robia, when Jack once again countiued to claim video games as the blame despite there not being any evidence of a such... i wonder how long it will be until he claims Cho desposed of the games before he went nuts...
Really, Jack even ingores the words of Cho's roomates... sure they didn't know Cho personally, but all they had to do was look over at his computer screen to find out what he was doing... They saw that he was always doing stuff like writing, not playing games like counterstike
Wait... what?
Kotaku: FALSE
It's the other way round.
Whatever.
Kotaku: FALSE
It’s the other way round.
Whatever
????????
Duffy's confused?
last night i went to eb games and bought yugioh (laugh if u want) and Gta 3 again (i think thats already my 6th copy of the game since i sell it when i need money) but im already at 528 kills all from last night and this morning.
so if these games "train" you to kill then why havent i lost it yet?
cause its Freaking BullS***
Although Thompsom kinda wants to angle it towards laws against violent entertainment. (I know, he didn't say it out loud...but we all know how the man thinks...well we dont...but we can presume.)
He claims to know what Cho was doing, claiming to quote Cho's roommates, even though the roommates' own statements flatly and COMPLETELY contradict what Thompson is claiming.
I'm mildly disappointed that TakeTwo dropped their Contempt of Court suit against Thompson, but I didn't REALLY expect it to go all the way to a ruling, in the first place.
I don't have a problem with Thompson disliking violence in videogames... everyone's entitled to their opinion. But when he outright fabricates "facts," lies about things, and twists the facts to suit his claims... that's simply not acceptible, and he NEEDS to be held accountable for it as long as he tries to put himself forth as a Court Expert on the matter.
I am starting to see a beautiful trend here.
For Pete's sake, clicking a mouse at an imaginary picture on a screen. This trains people how to kill? Enough already.