Award-Winning Israeli-Palestinian Sim Brought to Market

Hopefully they've resolved some of the issues with previous version; Scott Jennings (formerly Lum the Mad) remarked that it was impossible to win as the Israelis (no matter what you did, you caught hell from someone) and you could only win as the Palestinians if you poured money into your infrastructure.

Then again, that's pretty much analogous to the RL conflict...

--TR

Award-Winning Israeli-Palestinian Sim Brought to Market...

...

Mmm...my concern here would be the ability of the game to accurately model the respective world views and behaviors involved (for example, the complete unwillingness of the Palestinians to negotiate in good faith, or at the very least to attempt to -enforce- any promises they make about cease-fires or non-violence.), and the external forces (the ways in which Syria and Iran take covert action to undermine Israel, threaten them by proxy by supporting Hezbollah's little private army in Lebanon, etc). The latter in particular is an absolute prerequisite for ANY realistic simulation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict even if you're playing from the -Palestinian- side (since the Israeli government will often change its behaviour based on actions taken by these external actors).

Also, what are the conditions for "victory" in the game? Are they based on the old moderate compromise both sides now reject (two-state solution)? Or the stated Fatah and Hamas goals (the complete destruction of Israel as a state and forced expulsion or execution of all Jews in the region)? Or can you "win" by obtaining a lasting, stable peace on current terms (Palestinian settlement in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with minimal Israeli presence)?

While the game does add in some of the external influence, it's probably not as extreme as Brer would like it, which I agree is unfortunate, but it's also difficult to model that many factors.

And no, you can't achieve victory but blowing up Israel, since world opinion plays a big role in achieving the winning conditions. Wiping out Israel (or the Palestinians for that matter) just gets you labeled a war criminal and you lose.

Still, I found it very interesting and it did make me confront a lot of my own biases by playing as "the other side." You can read the review I wrote about a month ago by clicking the link in my name.

Note: The link "Peacemaker" doesn't work.

@Robert

Having read your review, I have to reiterate my point. It may be wonderful as a way of teaching people that "peace is hard and complicated", but it doesn't appear to accurately model the political and ideological structures of either side. For example, to lead people to believe that there is a Palestinian government invested in peaceful co-existence with Israel is simply dishonest. Those elements DO exist, but they have almost no political power or popular support. To illustrate, out of the 132 seats in the Palestinian National Authority:

74 seats are Hamas. From the Hamas Covenenant:

Article 13: here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

45 seats are Fatah. From the Fatah Constitution, stated as their first goal:

Article 12: "Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence"

3 seats are PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), the authors of a rather high profile series of aircraft bombings and hijackings in the past and whose Abu Ali Mustapha Brigades continue an active campaign of suicide bombings of civilian targets in Israel.

That's 90% of the popular vote for active terrorist groups, controlling 92% of the seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council. Fatah and Hamas bicker and fight among themselves (as demonstrated so dramatically in recent days), but the one thing they -are- united on is the complete and utter destruction of the state of Israel.

You do have "The Alternative" socialist political alliance led by the DFLP with 2 seats, who are moderate in that they claim to only attack military targets (nowadays, that is. Their habit of gunning down school kids back in the 70s doesn't count) and aren't -quite- as vocal as most in decrying a two-state solution.

The only REAL moderate/centrists with -any- power are the Third Way and Independent Palestine political alliances, with a whopping 4 seats and 5.3% of the popular vote COMBINED.

If anyone -really- cares I can also lay out the political factions (nationalist hardliners, etc) on the Israeli side, but my point has to do with how the PNA often gets portrayed here.

@robert

Israel has a lot more special interest/lobby groups than the Palestinians (the effect of a more established and stable political system) but you're most likely thinking of Likud. They've been the most aggressive -popular- party in terms of not wanting to give up Jewish settlement in Gaza and the West Bank and not negotiating with the Palestinians until they renounce terror tactics. You also get intermittent support for that idea from groups like the ultra-orthodox Shas party, and from active groups like the Yesha Council (which is basically a lobby group made up of the leadership from the various Jewish settlements in Gaza, the West bank, etc).