VA Tech Game Appears on Web

VA Tech Game Appears on Web

May 14, 2007
GamePolitics is sorry to report this morning that at least one game based on the recent Virginia Tech massacre has popped up on the web.

Several readers notified GP in recent days of V-Tech Rampage, which is hosted on  Newgrounds. The game (I spent about a minute with it) appears to be rendered in a documentary style, similar to that of the highly controversial Super Columbine Massacre RPG.

GP: This is one of those stories that, from a personal standpoint, we'd rather just ignore. But it's only a matter of time until news of this game crosses over to the mainstream media, where it will likely receive a highly sensationalized treatment.

As we've seen, some video game critics will cite fringe creations such as this to support generalized anti-game positions. But even beyond that, we just find such a game to be in extremely poor taste.

UPDATE: We note that U.K. site PC Advisor has additional coverage of this game. Destructoid has more, including info on the author, who is Australian.
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Comments

If this is the future of freedom of speech then please take it away.

I think I prefer Voltaire's point of view: "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write." Ask some people from Argentina, Chile, North Korea, Myanmar, etc. what happens when freedom of speech is "taken away". (Hint: it ends up with people dying horribly, on a far larger scale than happened at VT.)

Many have given their lives to preserve such rights in the U.S. and Europe, among other places. Don't cheapen their sacrifice by throwing it all away to vent your indignation over a Flash game, however stupid and offensive that game may be. I don't think the people who died at VT want their memory sullied by being used as a lightning rod for suppressing free speech -- again, however detestable that speech may be.
I am from Blacksburg Va and this game is sickening. How are we supposed to heal when this game pokes fun at the tragedy we faced? It is an outrage than someone would create such a disturbing video game. It is quite dusturbing.
I am from Blacksburg Va and this game is sickening. How are we supposed to heal when this game pokes fun at the tragedy we faced? It is an outrage than someone would create such a disturbing video game.
This guy is sick! Does he have no sence of morality at all? If this is the future of freedom of speech then please take it away. Someone should send his mother to the middle east and we can make a game of his mother getting stoned to death for giving birth to a sick twisted form that makes even the nazis look better.
does this guy have a life?
Do I think this is all an immature stunt? Of course. Do I think we should condemn this guy for possibly hurting our video games? No, the only people to blame in the end are any politicians who don't respect our rights. They're the only ones who can actually do anything, and if they don't respect the constitution, it dosn't matter if it's video games, or something else, we're screwed. I know video games are the most important thing in the world to a lot of people, maybe their only interest in politics, but issues of free speech go beyond video games. Even something crappy and in poor taste like this is protected by our constitution, there is no doubt, and it must be protected. Just as the Neo Nazis, or the Ku Klux Klan or anyone else who's speech is deemed unsavioury by much of society must be protected. Free speech means nothing unless the most vile speech that dosn't violate the law in some other way (slander, revealing state secrets etc.) is protected unflinchingly. The hardest speech to defend is the speech most in need of defense, and without doing so, there is no free speech at all, just the illusion of it.
Hey firstly this kid is NOT an Aussie. He just happens to hide in Australia atm. This is the price of freedom of speech and so is this:-

Ryan Lambourn
Address: 8 Barossa Cl St Clair 2759
Tel +61(02) 9670 2947

Just in case someone would like to personally hand him a donation personally. Good luck Ryan i wish you all the best!!!
This game needs to be removed immediately. I am a Virginia Tech student. I witnessed this tragedy first hand. I lost a friend on that day. This game is very upsetting to me. The Virginia Tech campus is trying to heal, but this game is taking us back a step. This game is like pouring salt in our still very fresh wounds. I would never want to relive that day, and I feel it is very wrong for this game to be allowed on the internet. I have not, and will not, play this game, but images from the game are all over the news. It is impossible to avoid this game, and every time I hear about it, or see screencaps from the game it makes me sick. How someone could capitalize on our misery is unbeknowst to me.
Please, out of respect for my fallen Hokie brothers and sisters, their families, and the Virginia Tech students and faculty, please remove this game immediately.
Ok.....So............
You guys do not play World War based games.......
Right??

It is not differnt from World War based games.
But...It needn't to intentionally make 'V-tech based game'
how the fuck is this guy gonna make this cheap shit?! I mean c'mon its a bit early for this, no? was this supposed to be some shit joke?! this is the same kind of low and tasteless creativity for those that made the columbine game!!!! alright I understand that this asian kid had issues and may have been harassed and mentally oppressed but he was indeed intelligent and I cant understand how feebleminded he was to resort to this massacre there are other ways, how is the media gonna let this get out and cause its growth in the underground and mainstream broadcast!!? There are other more vital things that need to be addressed like Iraq,Iran, and other things in the world to be addressed that are in fact SUPRESSED.
This is all bulshit, we are no longer a civilised society/culture : ^ / *shakes head*
[...] « Who dares to say that blogs do not have an impact on political campaigning? V-Tech Tragedy as a Flash Game May 16th, 2007 Sooner or later it was going to happen. Unfortunately it happened sooner. A flashgame about the V-Tech rampage was uploaded on Newgrounds. As GamePolitics points out, the game is rendered in a documentary style, similar to that of the highly controversial Super Columbine Massacre RPG. There’s one difference though: As controversial Super Columbine Massacre RPG might have been, its creator at least tried to make a thoughtful attempt and had the decency to wait six years with the release – and he didn’t give in to the increasing industrialization of all art but tried to convey his viewpoint. It was dangerous in a thought provoking way. I can comprehend where the (often ill-informed) critics are coming from: Games inherent the trivialisation of human life since the survival of one’s avatar depends on the player’s ability (that’s why there never was – and hopefully never will be – a game about Anne Frank) and due to their save function they won’t let the player feel all the consequences of their action. That said: A mature medium should be allowed to make comments on serious issues (it should not only be allowed to but see this as a pressing duty). But not only is the game industry notoriously insecure about itself, perpetuating the same juvenile concepts again and again, but there is also the sensationalist mainstream media, which can’t tell independently developed games and industry-produced software apart (yet to speak of politicians who use them as an excuse for strikter legislation) – with often unfavorable consequences for the industry. Still: Should this stop people from trying to critically comment serious events through the medium of a digital game? It would be giving up before trying and giving in to the political economy of the contemporary mainstream mediasphere. The V-Tech game though is just plain, idiotic provocation. It’s evacuated of any thought, any reflection, any common sense. A fact that is underlined by the fact that its creator started to hold the public hostage and offered to take it offline if people pay him $1000 US – an apology can be expected for $3000 US. As Kotaku put it: “Free speech and free expression are great. Just make sure you’ve got something to say.” [...]
@ yaw

That information is already publicly available.

@ news4u

Thanks for that. I hadn't seen it. Again, I'm entirely unsurprised by his simplistic outlook.

@ rigo

I have no idea what you said.
is good game is for all people lv tech jijijijijijijijijijij
Did anyone see the news video of the game and its creator?

http://www.thenewsroom.com/details/308537/US

He's clearly insensitive and apathetic, but really there seem to be more important things.
I will run a campaign, to raise $1000 in donation to track this person down, and put his details and address public, so that anyone who wants to do anything to him can do it, $2000 for anybody who would find him and give him a bitch slap, $3000 posted on the web him suffering and being sorry for what he had done, with the most humiliating thing ever done to him. Then we will see whether who is being funny.
@ Aussie

...and you don't think people would be upset if someone made a game in which the goal was to kill Iraqi children?

I think you've completely missed the point.

We're upset not because the victims were American (many of the regulars here are from countries other than the United States), but because the game recreates a senseless tragedy in which many innocent people died and it does so without any valid purpose.

The author, as evidenced by his website, his comments here, and the very childish and self-centered way in which he conducts himself, proves beyond a doubt that he believes his creation to fashionably tasteless and that he's just too cool to care about consequences or the feelings and opinions of others. It's a teen-aged mentality that he'll hopefully grow out of.

(The above is in no way a slight against all teenagers; we have many mature, thoughtful young people in the GP community whose opinions I highly respect.)
The pain has already been set, & being
dealt with by those that lost.
As I think this dumb asian kid should
not be glorified any more then he
has too, this game is the same as
GTA, Call of duty, Saints Row, ect.
If anything, market this game & put
all proceeds to getting guns off the streets.
just a thought.
VA Tech Games Spring Up on the Web...

...
I have people.
...hate. That'll teach me to post at 5 AM with no sleep...
I can already hear the backlash. This does not help us in anyway =(
Someone's looking for attention...
Isn't that why most people post anything on the Internet. They're after the attention from everyone in the world.
I' not even bothered to look at the game. At least SCMRPG was developed as a commentary/documentary. This game seems to be developed as an attention getter and to BE controversial. There is nothing wrong with being controversial, but you should have a point.
3... 2... 1...

JT: Game companies are mocking the dead and glorifies their murderers!!!
Games like this are gonna create hundreds of copycats all over the world!!!
Let's ban games, make me world president and rejoice!!!
...Ugh. All video game legislative laws get an unwarranted push in 3... 2...
I don't care what people post on the net, there are plenty of worse things out there (even if it is in poor taste).

What I'm more concerned about is the media reporting on it and treating it like a commercial game when in fact it is just some cheap flash game made by a bratty teenager.
I don't know if this should be considered a good or bad thing but given newround's track record they are not going to remove this game no matter who complains or how often they complain (unless the author of the work wants it down). Just thought I'd point that out (I personally think that's a good thing).
I spotted this on 4chan and gave it a try. The game is one of those steaming piles that would just go away if ignored, but guess what, thanks to massacre chasing politicians and lawyers, the game has already achieved immortality.
I find this idea stupid. I wish there was some way to distinguish flash and independant games from Professional ones in a way that will shut politicians up
I dunno about you guys, but I found the PC Advisor article interesting and balanced. Unfortunately, I fear this will be an exception.
....
Pathetic. I hate people.
WOW this is a bit too soon and MAN those graphics SUCK.
//What I’m more concerned about is the media reporting on it and treating it like a commercial game when in fact it is just some cheap flash game made by a bratty teenager.//

And sadly, we'd have to defend it because if we don't, then we would be called hypocrites and then all hell would break loose ("M-rated games are no more in the USA! *shock!*"). I sometimes hate being a defender of the media, because you have @$$-holes that will just do anything for a shock or whatever.
@kurisu7885
first and second rules pal. know them.
this is one of those times we need to inform people that the video game industry is not responsible for homebrew video games. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen, and we're gonna have another Super Columbine Massacre RPG = Bully on our hands.
@Sidewinder
Well Thompson would know something about mocking the dead wouldn't he?
ugh this sucks. because half of my mind is like "why the heck did this kid/guy do this? doesn't he/she know what politicians did with the columbine game?" and then my other half is like... "freedom of speech, anyone can say what they want no matter how ugly it may be. let em' be".


Somehow I don't think this person even knew what a ruckus the columbine game made. I talk to all my other family members about whats going on with politicians using it and they have no idea what I'm talking about. but they are of a different generation. but then I thought what if this person does know how much guff that other game got and is doing this to get the same attention that creator did... then frankly I don't hold that person higher than JT because he does what he does for attention aswell. lets hope this person was just ignorant of the fact then. then my faith in humanity will be slightly restored ;)
Holy excrement, WTF is wrong with these people?

I admire that he made the game and that it is "original" (since no one else has made it) but come on man, what the hell were you thinking when you made this. Did you actually think people would like it?

But I guess the bigger isue is what with JT say in courts "This game was made by T2 in order to sabotage our childrens mind"
But since he cant go after T2 I'll guess he will go after another fast food restaurant
Oh Christ. What is WRONG with people?

Freedom of speech is an incredibly, vitally important thing. It's just such a hideous waste when people use that freedom to do idiotic things that will only backfire on themselves.

I mean, the moron who made this is presumably a gamer, right? It seems a very fair assumption. Well now thanks to his (or her, I guess) idiocy and desire to cause a sensation and be oh-so-cleverly controversial, the cycle of Blame-The-Games will just strengthen, so the hobby that is the *reason* they created this crud in the first place will be under greater threat than it was before.

Sigh. And who would want to make a game out of this anyway? I mean... God, sometimes I really despair for humanity in general, seriously.

I unhappily await the media firestorm that will come from this. Meh.
*Homer voice* D'oh! Great, I can just hear Thompson now. *Sighs and shakes head* I wish I knew what goes threw people's heads when they make things like this.
This person just put us and our cause back a good 5 years. Politicians/Lawyers/NannyGroups are going to jump on this and blame games and gamers for years to come.

Time to call The Soup (ABC,CBS,CNN,MSNBC,ect.) and start damage control.
free speech motherfuckers. i disapprove of what you have to say (the game you make), but i will defend to the death your right to say (make) it.

represent.
John Says:
I find this idea stupid. I wish there was some way to distinguish flash and independant games from Professional ones in a way that will shut politicians up

Perhaps in the barrage of reports that will result from this game, the media will attempt to clarify and distinguish between the two ? I'm getting my hopes up, I know it....
@kellye

Isn't that a quote from Penn and Tellers "Bullshit" ?

I would LOVE to see Penn and Teller handle videogames in one of there shows.
The biggest problem with this game is that the creator has gone public with the game but does not use his/her real name. SCMRPG's creators used their real names along with the distribution so that people would know whom to complain to and whom to applaud. This person has shown he/she is a coward. I mean have some balls and take responsibility for your crap.
It's sad that people are going to compare this to SCMRPG. SCMRPG tried to inform you about the killers' background, as well as make tongue in cheek commentary about the media and public portrayal of the killers, this just seems to be a shoot-em up that's loosely based on the events, with the added bonus of fictional bad dialog...

There's no background, no discussion of motivation, no exploration of thoughts, influences, and decisions.

I like Kotaku's take: "ree speech and free expression are great. Just make sure you've got something to say. Otherwise, it's noise."

Unfortunately, the media WILL lump this in with SCMRPG, because they won't know any better. Most reporters won't bother to play both, and so they'll assume they're the same, but it would be like comparing "Fahrenheit 9/11" with "Micheal Moore hates America". Yeah one is a pseudo-doc that has a bias, but the other is just a sniveley kid bitching.
doh! I meant "Free speech and free expression are great. Just make sure you’ve got something to say. Otherwise, it’s noise.”
@Volcanman

Er... there is nothing hypocritical with condeming a poor taste game.

It would be like saying all move lovers should support snuff movies on principle.



It's important that gamers are mature enough to recognise when games have stepped across the line of decency!
whats up with the duck in that screenshot in the article?
And now the Censorcrat Rabblerausers will claim it was made by the industry and has photorealstic graphics.
@jonc2006

It's the scene from Cho's dorm room in the flash, where he prepares and films his message pack for NBC. I don't know why there's a duck there.
Freedom of speech includes the freedom to make a gigantic ass of yourself in public. As the maker of this game has just done.
This is genuinely sad. Free speech is great, but unfortunately there'll always be some little fucktards who abuse it.
Oh joy cue the angry mob of soccer moms in 5, 4, 3....
I believe I speak for the game industry as a whole when I say: f$#k
Grow some balls gamepolitics staff, nothing in this world is scared, so don't like a scared dog that knows it's master is about to beat the shit out of it.
@Nekojin

"Freedom of speech includes the freedom to make a gigantic ass of yourself in public."

Very true.
He seems like a real winner...
*sigh* This sucks so incredibly much.

Sometimes I wonder if things like this are secretly put out by anti-game advocates just so they have something to point at.

Wait a sec.....did I just make a Thompson-esque conspiracy theory? Crap, I'm going to the bar (no pun intended) now.....
@Jabrwock:

"@Nekojin

'Freedom of speech includes the freedom to make a gigantic ass of yourself in public.'

Very true."

It does?! I'm gonna go try that. *takes off pants and runs into the city square, shouting, "ITTY BITTY BABY ITTY BITTY BOAT"*
The only way to get something off of newgrounds is to "Blam" it, which bascially means that if it gets enough 0's in the score, it will get removed.

I'm not going to play this one. I played SCRPG because it used the format of rpg maker 2000, but this is here to just be controversial.
Which Mainstream Media Outlet will be the first to decry the game as a depraved creation of the games industry?

Place your bets.
I think this falls squarely into the "just because you CAN do something, doesn't meant that you SHOULD" category.

Beyond having the freedom to do something as irresponsible as make a VA Tech game there's no reason it should be done. It was an immature thing to do, at best, and will likely cause the gaming communtiy more problems in the future. Its likely to be references alongside the columbine game (which I also oppose on moral grounds) as an example of how games are ruining society and poisoning the minds of children.

As a community we need to defend our right to purchase & play videogames of any rating. We also need to support the ESRB and help those who aren't part of the community understand that M rated games are not, by and large, played by minors. However, we also need to call out idiots like whoever made this farce and let them know that, beyond the First Ammendment, we're not going to support this nonsense anymore.

Just my two cents on the issue.
@Volcanman

"And sadly, we’d have to defend it because if we don’t, then we would be called hypocrites and then all hell would break loose (”M-rated games are no more in the USA! *shock!*”). "

Bullshit. I won't defend this, because it's not worth defending. I was one of the most outspoken defenders of SCMRPG! (I was the Slamdance judge that criticized the festival), but that's because SCMRPG! was a well written, thought provoking mind trip. This game, on the other hand, is exploitative trash.

That doesn't make me a hypocrite. That means I have standards.
/facepalm
VERY bad taste. Whoever made this game is an ass, and it's not funny.
@ Meggie
I hope the same thing, but my parents were talking at dinner about how they heard you could buy a columbine game in stores, so mainstream media has no faith from me

@E. Zachary Knight

Dude I was thinking the exact same thing. Hell, I would not put this above JT making the game to further his own goals. This could be one of the worlds biggest sockpuppets to troll the internet.
@Volcanman Says:

"I sometimes hate being a defender of the media, because you have @$$-holes that will just do anything for a shock or whatever."

now you know how military folk feel.
Hay guys, sup?
Just wanted to say to the guy asking about the ducks.
Seung bought some rubber ducks off of ebay not long before the massacre.
and
Why are you all so worried about the INDUSTRY? Pathetic.
A good man once said "i dissagree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it" and that should hold true to this.

And anyways this could be a relization to the person. maby he made it to educate people on things that could happen or things that could go wrong in the world(as SCM RPG has said to me by some).

And realy if the media staarts rubing on everything bad on games and internet its goan be a long time till their done. theres alot of things on internet and games that are defind as "wrong" for us. but that what the games are ment to be and do. they are for FUN not to train people to kill everyone or to makefun of the dead(mostaly).
Pigpen your sad attempt to get attention is what drives the industry and politics to get a bad name. If you were a true game creator it would of been on how to stop Seung.

I for one will be a voice against you in your sad attempt to get some pr.
Just because a game doesn't fall into your narrow view of right and wrong art doesn't mean it isn't a form of art that we shouldn't defend.The comments I am seeing here make me wonder how much bite really has fallen out of the community.

If we pick and chose what art we think is "excluded"from the 1st amendment then it defeats the purpose of defending any of it to begin with.Just because you don't like said art doesn't mean "it's trash not worth defending".To do otherwise is to stick a foot in your mouth and let politicians censor whatever they like.

@Jbourrie well thank you for giving a fine example of the word "hypocrite"and subsequently putting your own foot in your mouth.

you either defend all art or want to censor all of it theirs no middle road,no cherry picking or pulling a bait and switch to make it seem like you can have your cake and eat it too.
Hate to say it, but these people always remind me of the sort of people who write porn involving Star Trek characters etc, really a bit sad.

No-one can stop the person from writing it, but it really doesn't help anything, as was demonstrated at the weekend, politicians have far more problem telling freeware from commercial than they think teenagers have with fantasy and reality.
@Diceman

You are correct. There's a difference between liking/hating a statement, and defending it's right to be.

Pigpen made a sad pathetic flash, that was badly written, didn't even bother trying to explore the "why", and was clearly made only to have people get their panties in a knot. Really, the more you get offended, the more Pigpen is laughing at you for getting so uptight.

But I defend his right to be a tool. Because I don't want someone else telling ME what I can and can't say, just because it's in bad taste, too soon, or done just to offend. At that point I'm still letting them decide what's right and what's not allowed.

It may be trash, but if you want to pretend that you care about freedom of expression, you have to defend even the crappy expression. It doesn't mean you have to like it, you just have to defend it's right to be...
I don't know if anyone is suggesting this art is invalid just because it's disgusting to some of us. I think people are just expressing distaste for it -- which is just as valid as RYAN LAMBOURN MASTERPIGPEN@YAHOO.COM expressing ... whatever it is this game is meant to express.

You can cherry pick what appeals to you and then defend that and then decide something else is not worth defending. It's part of a VAST middle ground -- middle ground being a concept largely ignored on the Net. Opinions are allowed to be varied.

I'm just a little pissed that we have to even discuss this in order to explain this has NOTHING to do with the industry and is an apparent reflection of a kid's desire for 15 minutes of fame. 15 minutes that we're giving him whether or not he deserves it (like I said, opinions vary). I also kind of wish the discussion could be a little bit more than a stream of profanity and violent outburst. JT seems to think gamers are childish barbarians. Can we prove him wrong?
(18 words) Stop giving politicans and our critics very bad examples that they use to say how bad we are
Allow me to clarify my earlier statement.

"Freedom of speech includes the freedom to make a gigantic ass of yourself in public."

I may well decry the game in question as being in the lowest-class, poorest taste possible. But I'd still say he has the right to do it. I'm of the opinion that anyone can make as huge of a jackass of themselves as they can manage.

Poor taste? Definitely. Should he have done it? No. But it's done, and you can't unring that bell. His choice, not yours. And while we might feel some peripheral fallout from it, he's the one who is going to have to live with the fact that he's the jackass who did it, for the rest of his life. Maybe it'll spur him on to even greater heights of blatant stupidity, or maybe he'll learn not to be such a twit.

But freedom of speech is one of the few near-absolute freedoms that our government's constitution gives us, and to censor something just because it's in offensively poor taste is flat-out WRONG.

And if he lived somewhere else, our government couldn't do jack shit about it, anyway.
Jabrwock Says:
Really, the more you get offended, the more Pigpen is laughing at you for getting so uptight.

Actually i was laughing at that ......russian doll statement, lulz.
why are people going nuts about the first amendment?

i don't think anyone in the game community is saying it should be outright censored. although that makes it easy for some of you to argue (strawman)

we're just saying it sucks, is in poor taste, is completely meaningless outside of the initial shock value, and cannot be defended in the same way as SCMRPG.
@tempo: "why are people going nuts about the first amendment?

i don’t think anyone in the game community is saying it should be outright censored. although that makes it easy for some of you to argue (strawman)"

Because there are going to be those OUTSIDE of the game community (and yes, some inside the community, who want to have it removed from NewGrounds, etc.) who are going to try to make it a First Amendment issue, and have it declared an obscenity, and therefore not protected speech.
@ Random

Someone discovered it on Newgrounds and it came to GP's attention via word of mouth, just like most news does. It's mentioned here because... well... it's news, which is something GP covers. Lastly, if Dennis had refused to report on it, someone else would have covered it and we'd be in the same position.

I'd rather everyone knows about it, for two reasons:

1) Everyone should know that it is not a product of the game industry, and that the vast majority of gamers and the game industry do not approve of or support it (though we do, perhaps grudgingly, stand firmly by the concept of free speech).

2) Everyone should know who is responsible for it. Ryan Lambourn wanted attention... I think he should have as much of it as the media can bring to bear on him.
@tempo

"why are people going nuts about the first amendment?"

Because people like to twist "it should be illegal to make" into "it's just morally wrong to make, and I'll pretend you have a right to make it, but secretly I'll try to make it quasi-illegal to make, while insisting you have a right to make it."

South Park put it best: "Either you can make fun of everything, or you can't make fun of anything."

"we’re just saying it sucks, is in poor taste, is completely meaningless outside of the initial shock value, and cannot be defended in the same way as SCMRPG."

Sort of. It cannot be defended in the same way since SCMRPG is a thought provoking examination of the events preceding and during the massacre, dissected in the same way a killer's motive and actions are dissected in one of those crime docs.

But it CAN be defended in that however awful, it's still someone expressing an idea. Get mad, get offended, get irate, get pissy, get whatever you want to be in response to it. But remember this. By choosing not to defend it, you are no different than those who attacked SCMRPG whilst defending something like that movie that documented the meeting of the German high command that led to the Final Solution... (I can't remember the title offhand)
it may be poorly done but not everyone works on the same moral system as others.you have a right to hate it ,spit on it ,throw it like a aol cd or torch it with you lev 63 undead warlock...thats your right to a opinion.

but don't act like you defend free speech and then go and do the exact opposite...it makes you look like more of a tool than the creator of this game could ever possibly be.

@other parts of the discussion:
yeah it will hurt later on but in all honesty the industry has this thing with playing defense instead of bearing their teeth and going for the jugular like they should have done from the start(or at least break these politicians will to play the "zomg its teh evil viddya gamesz"card)and if this little "morally incorrect"as some of you seem to imply gets them off their behinds to throw 1st amendment grenades into jack and co offices then by all means i support it.
Found it, I was talking about The Wannsee Conference as depicted in Conspiracy (2001)
yeah, if the line between censorship and free speech comes down to the totally subjective definition of 'obscenity' i see your point, and it is highly likely it could come to this.

but i still think its a shit game, and pigpen would probably agree :)

the only reason its being discussed is because of the very recent violent deaths of 32 innocent people, and nothing more...
...besides the fact that it falls into the first amendment conversation
Mainstream sensation with JT in 5... 4... 3...
The topic of the game doesn't bother me in the slightest -- sure, it's a bit soon, but games are (or should be) a way to express ideas. Keep in mind that the media has already made a killing on this, pun intended, and I'm certain that there are book deals, documentaries, etc. already on their way.

Unfortunately, this game seriously sucks. It's just lame 2D shooter with Cho's name slapped on, and unlike SCMRPG, there didn't seem to be any message or moral or anything. In fact, this is a game that would suck even if it was unconnected to the VTech thing.
@tempo

Even obscenity is a flaky concept. It's considered a "fair" restriction on free speech, but only because "normal", "decent" people all agree it's filth. As if we've all agreed that the opinions of the masses over the minority only apply if sex or swearing is involved.

But then we go and make extra rules for which obscenity is ok, as long as it falls under certain uses, or certain categories. It's almost like we're rationalizing our censorship, while still claiming to respect freedom of expression...
What do you think will anger gamers more: Politcians/JT claiming that the mainstream gaming industry created it? Or parents of the victims screaming for an apology from the gaming industry?

I choose the latter as more aggravating. Why should the industry take heat from victims who don't know the truth about how internet games =/= mainstream?
The First Amendment protects a person's right to produce games like this, but just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should. This game, IMO, should not have been made.

There's no reason for it, aside from generating controversy (which, I think it's fair to say, was the author's sole intent). The whole of his website exudes a juvenile quality, while lacking any real creative ability or intent (again, all IMO).

I left a comment voicing my displeasure in what was the most civil tone I could muster (I considered writing far worse), but his response indicates that he simply doesn't care about dissenting opinions.

Quel surprise.
Of all the things to hate my game for....why are so many of you hating it for what small repercussions it may have on the game industry? Seriously...priorities.
@ J-Guy

Whose fault is it victims families will be led to believe it's a product of the game industry?
So an attention whore made a game about another attention whore.
"Of all the things to hate my game for….why are so many of you hating it for what small repercussions it may have on the game industry? Seriously…priorities."

Imagine all your neighbors assuming you made advances towards a child, even though it was really some pervert who lived down the street whom you have never met, and don't intend to.

Would you not be annoyed that your neighbors were so god damned stupid that they would associate you with him? Would you not be annoyed with him for getting you into trouble?

Your actions have larger repercussions than you think. You believe "it's nothing." We know that there are a large number of people out there who will use your work as a shining example of why the gaming industry should get run by government-mandated Thought Police, and by extension, any other form of media.

Seriously.
@ EvilJez

What I meant was, people who defend the media have to defend something controversial as well. The fact isn't that this game sucks; it's that it's going to be lumped with SCMRPG and people are going to go nuts about it and all hell will break loose once again. Sure, the game sucks monkeys, and we can hate it, but sadly, it's apart of our media and even if we don't like it, we have to defend becaue it's the makers free Speech and expression.

The hypocritcal point I made, is that we can't just toss the creators out there and tell them "you're on your own, we ain't gonna help you" since we wouldn't be defending their expression with them, right?
"Imagine all your neighbors assuming you made advances towards a child, even though it was really some pervert who lived down....blahblah.....media."

YOURE NOT THE GAME INDUSTRY!
And personally i feel fine with EA getting my blame.....want me to put them on the title screen? NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY, THEYRE PROTECTED BY THE SAME FREEDOM OF SPEECH AS I AM.

And really.....it was probably me who made the advances towards the child.
Wanting to defend everything is just as blind as wanting to ban everything.

At some point, each individual has to decide for themselves where they personally draw the line.

Even the First Amendment has never been absolute, and this guy being an Australian, he's covered by a whole different set of rules anyway.

Now, with that said, should we forcibly shut him up? I don't think so. Should we tell him what we think? We've got the right, but again, he's just some petty little attention whore. Probably made the game as a way to feel big and important, even for just those fifteen minutes.

We've already given him more of our time and attention than he ever deserved.
Pigpen,

he wasnt claiming to be the industry. If you were part of this site and the news and politics of gaming you would understand his point.

People do use online games to fuel the fire and you just added another one.
Humanity lost the points game with me a long time ago.
yeah i understand the point...youre all heartless monsters that care more about getting your next GTA sequel than peoples lives.
Ha! The last guy to say that was a lawyer from Miami.
@PiGPEN:

Lurk more. Sheesh.
Pigpen, you moron. Don't you get it? Once the media has a hold of your little game, their going to turn around and shout to every non-gaming parent in the country that the Videogame Industry is producing these "Murder Simulators" For PROFIT. They aren't going to make the slightest distinction between your little piece of crap pet project and the real games. The parents, in turn, are going to scream at politcians to "Protect the children" From these games. The Politicians, in natural fashion, are going to write law after law (After law after law), to try and condemn/ban/restrict the sale of ALL games.

Your "innocent" little creation is going to be the excuse for the entire lawmaking body in this country to try and bitch-smack the Industry. What's worse, due to your pitifully poor timing, they might actually SUCCEED.

The next time you want to make something stupid that mocks an event that has police arresting people for PRETENDING to shoot up a school in a game, at least have the presence of mind to NOT BE SUCH AN IDIOT PRICK ABOUT IT.
@PiGPEN

>NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY, THEYRE >PROTECTED BY THE SAME FREEDOM OF SPEECH AS I AM.

This is where the politics come into play. In the US at least there are groups specifically trying to strip 'freedom of speech' protections from video games. In which case, neither you (if you lived here) nor the industry, would be protected any more.

It has already happened to the adult industry and is sucks pretty badly for everyone.
@Diceman

"@Jbourrie well thank you for giving a fine example of the word “hypocrite”and subsequently putting your own foot in your mouth.

you either defend all art or want to censor all of it theirs no middle road,no cherry picking or pulling a bait and switch to make it seem like you can have your cake and eat it too. "


Look, not everything is black and white. You can wave your arms and shout "first amendment" and "it's art" all you like, but it doesn't mean that everybody should just be told to blindly support it.

Did I say that he didn't have the right to make this game? No.

Did I say that I won't defend it because I think it's trash? Yes.

Do I think this is going to have a lasting negative effect on the game industry? Yes.

Nobody's pulling a bait and switch here. All I'm saying is that I don't believe there is any redeeming value in this particular product, and it seems to me that it was created for no other reason than shock and attention. I'd gladly retract that if somebody could convince me otherwise, but I think his comments in this thread have made it very clear that he has no motive beyond getting his 15 minutes in the spotlight.

@PiGPEN
"Of all the things to hate my game for….why are so many of you hating it for what small repercussions it may have on the game industry?"

Because that's the only lasting effect this game will have. It doesn't spark any emotion other than anger at the person ignorant enough to make this. It doesn't create any conversation other than the one we're having right here. It doesn't make me think, or feel anything. All it does is paint a big target on all of us, as a group. You know this, and I'm pretty sure that's why you made it. I'll congratulate you as soon as I hear a politician mention your game, because then I will know that you've successfully done your part in making things harder for the rest of us.
It has already happened to the adult industry and is sucks pretty badly for everyone.

Whats wrong with the adult industry? Not enough scat?
@PiGPEN

"YOURE NOT THE GAME INDUSTRY!"

I am. The game industry signs my paycheck. I have spent eight years getting where I am now, and will spend 60 more years trying to improve this industry. Now MY industry has to spend MY money fighting legislations which YOUR game helps provoke.

YOU are not the game industry, are you?

I'm said my piece, now I'm finished feeding the troll.
Gee, this sounds like the kind of situation where, if Jack used his lawyer brain properly, would do some good...
@PiGPEN

>Whats wrong with the adult industry? Not enough scat?

Well, let's see. Being arrested and prosecuted for producing adult videos, or selling adult toys? Having your kids taken away? Crushing regulatory reporting that requires you releasing personal details of your models to any stalker who asks? Relegated to sleazy looking stores that zoning boards try very hard to get out of their area? And let's not forget that once you have worked in the industry huge classes of jobs are off limits to you afterwards.

If the games industry ended up like that..... just... yuck.

(btw - if this was adult rather then video games, you would not be safe from prosecution. there have been cases of obscenity infractions that led to extradition. so life would personally suck for you)
And YOUR money will go to a needy lawyer who needs HIS paychecks too.

I’m said my piece, now I’m finished feeding the troll.
PiGPEN: And personally i feel fine with EA getting my blame…..want me to put them on the title screen?

Sure, letting EA and such take the hit for game controversies is fun and all. But will you still be laughing when they ban violent Flash games (for instance, there's a bill in NY which would do this..) and then come to arrest you? Sure, you could probably win in court, that is, assuming you don't get gunned down by police during a no-knock raid in the middle of the night..
I know how to get that flash removed.

Contact IMVU and tell them their ads are appearing on a flash game mocking the VA-Tech massacre.

Newgrounds will pull it faster than you can say "WAIT I LIKE MONEY!"
@agnosto

There is a snowballs chance in hell they will succeed in banning violent video games, because of Pigpen's game no matter how badly his timing is. First of all you need proof violent video games cause some significant kind of harm (since they are protected speech). This game will not give them that proof. Failing that they need to prove that all violent video games are not free speech, the game will not give them that proof. The game may inspire more ignorant politicians to jump on the anti-game band wagon but they still have to craft a law that is constitutional.

Also if a newspaper or whatnot claims the industry made the game they could sue them and have a great chance of winning. As long as judges do their job things will be fine. Bad timing on the game means very little as well. For example the rolling stones released sympathy for the devil at the time when rock and roll was being blamed for youth violence and that it had satanic messages in it. Naturally the bible-thumpers and censors used this song as "proof" rock and roll is satanic, did they succeed? Is rock and roll still being blamed for having satanic messages? Do I even have to ask? Also I don't remember the suicide bomber game or super columbine massacre having these same reprecussions.
@jabrwock

i agree that obscenity is a flaky and subjective concept
About the rubber duckies:

Smoking Gun did some checking and found that the killer had purchased a large number of rubber ducks on eBay.
That, as well as a significant amount of firearm ammunition.

Oh, and I discovered he also sold a scientific calculator with GAMES on it! So Jack was right all along, he rehearsed on Tetris.
@PlayItbogart

If you think that is true then you don't know anything about newgrounds. Tom (the creator) started off by making controversal games (including school shooting and seal clubbing simulations), and he pulled his game from slamdance when super columbine got x'ed out. The guy also has tons of cash give-aways so he's not greedy, he has refused to pull the suicide bomber game and the site is so huge he could easily find new sources of revenue if some advertisers called it quits. That virginia tech game is not leaving the site anytime soon (or maybe ever).

@illspirit

There are many problems with your theory.

a. IF (and that's a humoungus if) they ban violent flash games they won't arrest pigpen because he would've made the game before the law was passed and not be in trouble.
b. The law is passed in new york, newgrounds servers are located in Philadelphia, there is a pretty good chance that pigpen does not live in new york (and if he does see point a), so he might not be effected.
c. Such laws would create too many problems what if he created and uploaded the game while in Canada, would he still be effected?
d. If violent games are protected speech, then surely flash games are, public opinion does not dictate what is and what is not constitutional, the courts do.
PiGPEN: And personally i feel fine with EA getting my blame…..want me to put them on the title screen?

I get it now. You don't give a sh**, because it doesn't affect you. You're like my niece. She says all sorts of mean and nasty things, because she really doesn't give a hoot. She doesn't think before opening her mouth, doesn't care about consequences, and as long as her right to be an ass isn't impeded she doesn't give a rat's ass about how it affects anyone else.

You're just a sad little griefer who's looking for attention. The kind who if they did enact a law against stupid flash games, and the police really DID show up and arrest you, you'd just drop to the ground and have a little temper tantrum... And then your friends would just write a whole bunch of hate emails instead of getting off their lazy asses and actually DOING something about it...
Ok, whatever braindead idiot came up with this, seriously, grow the Hell up. I know that people want to get attention and use controversy for there own gains, but have some decency.

VT barely happened and you pull this? What is wrong with you? Was it not bad enough that idiots like thompson and others in the media were pointing fingers at the game industry, you just had to go whack the Beehive.

It's pathetic, its insensitive, it's offensive, even to me, and I take offense at very little.

Hopefully, you'll pull this before we have to get it pulled from newgrounds. It's the decent thing to do. When you can learn to treat this topic with some degree of respect, then make a game out of it.
*Sigh*

I'm an Australian, but how come I can see how damaging this
will be but the author can't? Doesn't he realise that if the US
manages to have serious and un-fair regulations on the
Games Industry its only a matter of time untill a carbon
copy of those regulations are put into law here.

I have nothing against free speech, it lets me do what I am
doing now: Voicing my opinion. What I do have a problem with,
is free speech abuse that could feed those trying to remove free
speech.

Not to mention the families and friends of the victims, who
would obviously be outraged by this crap. To me honest
this guy is no better than JT, as he doesn't care who he
hurts as long as his own ego is satisfied.

And to be honest I don't much care for 'PiGPEN's arguments,
they seem to be poorly made, just as his flash game is.
I delibrately skip them as they are just flippant flamebait.

-Twixn-
@PiGPEN

Australia doesn't have free speech. Australia has been banning games, movies and books for years.

http://www.refused-classification.com/
Actually, putting EA's name on it would be a great way for Pigpen to get the notoriety that he so clearly craves. Once EA sued him for impersonating them, his name would be all over the papers.
@Father Time

Aye. I know that's a really big if. However, Pigpen was saying he doesn't care if such laws are passed because it would ostensibly be only the big, mean industry which was affected. I was merely following his "what if" train of thought through to conclusion.

And I realize NY may not have jurisdiction, and the whole ex post facto thing would shield him from prosecution for this game. But if a Fed law was written (and magically survived a court challenge) and he made another game though, it might affect him, no?
Well it seems that my initial opinion of the author of that piece of tripe was correct after all. An immature little twit who acts without thought to the consequences of his actions.

I'll grant that it may be legal to make his little flash game, but that doesn't make it the morally correct thing to do and on that level I refuse to defend it. Just like I won't defend the Super Columbine Massacre game. In my opinion they're both exploitative and only served to hamstring the gaming community and industry.

There are plenty of games that the industry itself has made that I find to be morally repugnant and I won't defend those either. However when it comes to the free market the best form of showing your non-support of a product is to not purchase it. Its a similair thing with this. I won't go to newgrounds because I refuse to support twits like PigPen.

I think that we, as a community, really need to get on the ball with this one. The moment we see a newspaper or news station commenting on this we need to start writing to them and informing them that this is in no way connected to the industry. Its just some nitwit who's trying to get attention for himself by being controversial.
games as obscenity?i would love to see them try and pull that wool over any judge's eyes with common sense (activists judges excluded).I think i will go play the south park movie soundtrack blaring on my boom box across the street from a 1-5 grade school and see what happens just because I'm insane enough and when(or if)the cops show up for obscenity bullshit ill play twisted sisters "were not gonna take it"call my lawyer for a happy suit and laugh all the way to the bank.

Better yet ill buy up 40+ copies of GTA:SA and distribute them for free along with a flyer with bold lettering saying "rage against the machine baby!(with a butt load of politicians in asterisk identified as "the machine")Ill even pass them out to 5 year olds because its their rights as humans to absorb all kinds of knowledge be it culturally unfriendly or not.

Besides all the above obscenity laws are more of a scary boogie man to keep freedom of thought in check than a law(s) to actually protect people from anything harmful(I mean really nudity and crap worked for the greeks for the longest time without any problems).

@the rest of you kiddies...seriously are you not sick of playing defense all the time?embrace the flow of ideas and if politicians move in the strike blockade the town hall until X person changes his mind.Damning his creation only serves to help destroy what Dennis(and others)have tried valiantly to protect.
One of the worst parts of this: The creator is Australian. The politicians (and ole' Tommy boy) will glaze over this fact and push their laws on American gamers. Jerk.
I concur with bayushisan
Diceman if you blare the south park soundtrack at full blast (or ANYTHING at full blast) on a boombox on a public street, you might be fined/ticketed for disturbing the peace, so I wouldn't recommend it. However giving away copies of GTA to 5 year olds is not against the law
I want to be surprised by this, but I can't be...
Crappy Flash Game = Nothing much at all
Horrible Tragedy = Media Spectacle

Crappy Flash Game + Horrible Tragedy = CONTROVERSY! WOOHOO!

When I first saw the headline, I was hoping the game would be about how to find loopholes in the Virginia state medical health and gun control laws, or at least something pointing out some of the mistakes made that could have possibly prevented the massacre.

Unfortunately, it's just a pathetic game, and in very poor taste. Pity that Video Games are the flavor of the month for "What's Wrong With Kids" these days.

If someone had written this as a crappy short story, or made a no-budget re-enactment of the shootings on YouTube or something, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelash other than to say, "That was in poor taste". Since it's a Video Game, now it'll be "yet another murder simulator training our children to kill people".

I don't think the game industry needs to try and distance themselves from stuff like this, either. A simple, "My company would never have made this, but we do live in a country founded on free speech, so it's not my place to say what other companies or individuals should or should not do" is all that is needed.
@Kommisar

With all due respect I'd have to disagree. I think the industry and developers should distance themselves from things like this. It needs to be hammered home as often as possible that this flash game is in no way, shape or form connected to any legitimate game developer. Its not for sale, nor do flash games have to be submitted to the ESRB for rating. Like I've said earlier, just because this thing was legal to make, didn't mean it was the right thing to do.

Yes it was legal. No it was not moral. The two are not necessarily the same thing. Besides I'm getting tired of having to defend the medium when jokers like pigpen are doing their hardest to wreck it from within with their stupidity.
I suppose this isn't really a surprise. There are just people out there that think they can get away with things like this without negative effects. The entire gaming network is going to be hurt by this, or at least look down upon. We need to make sure people know we do not condone behavior like this, that they are a separate group.
I'm going to use some George W. Bush meets Jack Thompson logic in this situation:

A. Pigpen has created a game which glorifies killing innocent students.
B. Killing is what murderers do...and terrorists.
C. The game is teaching people to murder innocent Americans. Terrorists kill Americans.
D. The game is a murder simulator teaching terrorists how to kill.
E. Therefor, Pigpen must approve of terrorism.
F. Pigpen is a terrorist!

Pigpen, you have been branded a terrorist by the conservative right - congrats!
Wow... This is going to be a rough week or two.
@flap

did you just pull a jacko wendies tactic just now?
You know what I find interesting about this discussion? The fact that if "PigPen" is from Australia, he has no "constitutional right of freedom of speech" because it isn't listed in our constitution. There is no first amendment to be applied down here. We have political freedom of speech which applies to the government only, but the freedom of speech in the American sense of the phrase does not apply.

The game he created is in poor taste and obviously just the product of a child who wants to get noticed for doing something controversial with no thought for the consequences. If we ignore it, hopefully it'll go away. If it doesn't, then we'll have to unfortunately live with it because it does sound like there's no other option in the matter.

If anything comes out of this, I hope that his parents tell him off for this distinct lack of good taste since nothing that we say here seems to be getting through after reading his childish responses to what's been posted.
Wow, reading PigPen's comments on this board, it's plain obvious to see he is a complete moron. He has no feelings for any of the people that lost their lives during the VT Massacre. I picked that up by just how pointless this game really is. Now I have not played Super Columbine Massacre RPG, but it seemed to be made with good intention. This is not. This is puerile trash from a puerile person with no regard for humanity. At all. And he has the audacity to tell US "yeah i understand the point…youre all heartless monsters that care more about getting your next GTA sequel than peoples lives."

Please. Get a grip. If you really cared about people's lives there would 1. Be an actual examination of the tragedy and 2. wouldn't even be out for at LEAST another five years.

This game should be blammed off of Newgrounds, but not because of its subject matter, as tasteless as it is. If you're going to legislate morality concerning this you may as well do it to everything else, and that can't happen. Simply because it is...hands down...a horrible game. Simply put. Everyone hates E.T., right? Why not this trash?
a
Disclaimer: I am Australian and I am aware that, unfortunately, what happens in the US will eventually cascade down into Australia.

'NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY, THEYRE PROTECTED BY THE SAME FREEDOM OF SPEECH AS I AM.'

Technically Australia has no 'freedom of speech' in our constitution so you’re safe up until any Australian problems with the game (not that anything will happen). Australians are too lazy to fight for our rights as evidenced by the lack of civil wars/unrest (maybe because we all started as convicts with no rights...). That and our gaming industry isn’t large enough for anyone to really care.

So, now that that has been said. I don't really give a crap about this game, if it is shit all the better, if it is great I am sure someone will insist I give it a go. However, if everyone on this site is that worried that this will have an impact on vid games vs. constitution in America, I am disappointed you think both the constitution and 'people with IQ's of over 100' can be so easily swayed.
If that is the case, it is just a matter of time regardless...

And to add, regardless of the differences between SCMRPG and this game, the mainstream media will treat them exactly the same, haven't we all caught on, THEY DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAMES BEFORE REPORTING ABOUT THEM. We also know that those heading the anti-games debate will even twist/alter the truth regardless of whether they have played it or not.

I am not trying to flame, I think everyone just needs to take a breath and consider what this site is about. It is not to report on how crap a game is (or the inability of the maker to make it more intelligent/with reason etc.), so before everyone gets up-in-arms about the maker of the game save that energy for the lawyers/politicians who will incorrectly utilise this and other more ‘moral’ games for their own selfish purposes.
p.s. sorry for the long rant :)
It seems to me everyone HAS been up-in-arms about the lousy politicians and lawyers. It seems to me that people do not like the fact that videogames are still in a struggle for credibility, and everytime we start to make some progress some stupid person goes and does something like this.

People like PigPen are the reason we take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back.
'everytime we start to make some progress some stupid person goes and does something like this'

Point taken, but what games have been the fuel for this fire, primarily bully, GTA and CS. Games which no-one in here will say are immoral or not worth defending etc. My point is that the anti-game folk will find games regardless of what is released either by saying they teach to shoot (CS, america's army) or they are pornographic and brutally violent (GTA, bully).
Or by just making stuff up...
So I don't necessarily agree with 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, I view it as more of a stalemate and that, ultimately, this game won't affect the outcome.
ah leave him alone, its not that big a deal i mean everyone is just making a big deal about it because they were american. i mean how many kids in iraq die a day?

and heads up he is australian but he was born in the u.s
Solution to these kinds of games: DNFTT

If the game is abysmal, there's no point on discussing what it tries to do.
I don't like this game because it causes controversy. I don't like it because Cho wasn't a gamer, therefore no ironic supplement to the game.
I just finished playing VTech Rampage and have some mixed thoughts.

1) There are elements of factual synthesis to the game. Ryan has a sense of humor (morbid, certainly - but not beyond the recognition of the guy who made SCMRPG) that arises in the quips uttered by Cho and by police officers that apprehend him. The use of Cho's identity as "?" is found in the upstairs of Norris Hall and there are loose references to events as outlined in the media's reports following the shooting. Also the use of Collective Soul (hardly the "angry rock music" that one would imagine from a mass murderer) provides an interesting counterpoint to the game's violence. Whether this was intentional on Ryan's part or whether this was merely the result of Cho's favorite song as reported by the press remains up for speculation.

2) Ryan has no intention of doing much other than making money. Inevitably comparisons between SCMRPG and VTech Rampage are being made right now. Some bloggers despise both games equally whereas others recognize a level of commentary
I just finished playing 'VTech Rampage' and have some mixed thoughts.

1) There are elements of factual synthesis to the game. Creator Ryan Lambourn has a sense of humor (morbid, certainly - but not beyond the recognition of the guy who made SCMRPG) that arises in the quips uttered by Cho and by police officers that apprehend him. The use of Cho's identity as "?" is found in the upstairs of Norris Hall and there are loose references to events as outlined in the media's reports following the shooting. Also the use of Collective Soul (hardly the "angry rock music" that one would imagine from a mass murderer) provides an interesting counterpoint to the game's violence. Whether this was intentional on Ryan's part or whether this was merely the result of Cho's favorite song as reported by the press remains up for speculation.

2) It would appear to me that Ryan has no intention of doing much other than making money and gaining immediate recognition after the Virginia Tech shooting. Inevitably, comparisons between SCMRPG and VTech Rampage are being made right now. Some bloggers despise both games equally whereas others recognize a level of commentary that SCMRPG attempted which was not evident in VTR. For myself I wish to point out that SCMRPG was never a for-profit endeavor and thus I never posted statements like that which is on the VTR game's homepage:

"I will take this game down from newgrounds if the donation amount reaches $1000 US, i'll take it down from here if it reaches $2000 US, and i will apologize if it reaches $3000 US."

This quote seems to indicate that Ryan has no intention of leaving the game up permanently or having a channel for discourse (as I have done) but instead has unfortunately chosen an artist's statement that reads more like a hostage note. Following Ryan's demand, would anyone accept an apology made after a $3000 collection check? I'm not sorry for making SCMRPG nor should Ryan be sorry for making VTR; to imply that his apologies can be purchased for a few thousand dollars truly cheapens whatever efforts he is attempting to make.

3) While many are bemoaning how the game industry should distance itself from homebrew games, I am torn as to whether I should distance myself and my game from Ryan and his. I wrote after the Virginia Tech shooting:

"Societies throughout history have dealt with pain, tragedy, and suffering with art in a multitude of forms and ours is no exception. There will be poems about this shooting, there will be books about it, films about it, paintings about it, and indeed I do not believe the medium of interactive electronic media should be excluded from exploring the sorrows and challenges of the human experience."

Now I am forced to confront my own words by asking if the VTR game does ANY of what I outlined as the "exploration" of "sorrows and challenges of the human experience." I would like to ask bloggers to consider not whether a game about the Virginia Tech shooting SHOULD be made but how we might go about making a game that accomplishes more than VTR does with the subject matter.
"Point taken, but what games have been the fuel for this fire, primarily bully, GTA and CS. Games which no-one in here will say are immoral or not worth defending etc."

That's because most people think there is a purpose to those games, unlike consensus of VT Rampage, but I definitely get what you're saying. The reason I think VT Rampage is not worth defending as a GAME is because it sucks. Now, if you want to defend it as free speech, I'm totally with you. Because even if the most inflammatory expressions are protected, that means decent folks are well within bounds. Even the makers of other violent games like Manhunt.

"My point is that the anti-game folk will find games regardless of what is released either by saying they teach to shoot (CS, america’s army) or they are pornographic and brutally violent (GTA, bully)."

Once again, that's true, but I hardly think a fool like PigPen is helping, especially in a world of Jack Thompson.

"Or by just making stuff up…"

Definitely with you there.

"So I don’t necessarily agree with 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, I view it as more of a stalemate and that, ultimately, this game won’t affect the outcome."

I don't know, I think time will tell on this one. We'll have to see if Mainstream Media latches on to it.
[...] Va Tech Game Appears On Web [GamePolitics] [...]
[...] Va Tech Game Appears On Web [GamePolitics] [...]
To reuse a quote I said earlier, "you can't unring that bell." The game's made, it's up on a site, and has been so for more than 24 hours. Removing it at this point won't somehow make it cease to be. And, as Ryan says, an "apology" written after a $3000 payment will ring a bit false.

So, don't give him a dime. Just let it drift to the bottom of the trashheap on its own, and get back to more important debates and discussions.
@ Danny LeDonne

His ransom note is just a slap in the face to all of those who are concerned about the ramifications his game will have, which he obviously is not. I'd wager that you would never have put a pricetag on SCMRPG to make it disappear because it meant something to you. This donation rubbish further proves that he had no more motive than making some noise.

As to your question, I think the opportunity for a game exists. That opportunity was squandered by this lowlife in his pathetic attempt at notoriety, but perhaps someone will make a worthy effort in the future. As others have suggested, it may be wise to postpone any such game for a while as a courtesy to those close to the tragedy.

If there's something to say about the VT shootings, questions that need to be asked, I wouldn't oppose a game. That said, I think Cho was severely ill and that's as much explanation as there will ever be for what happened. I don't believe there's anything left to explore.

Sidenote: Thank you for posting your thoughts. I was wondering what you might have to say on the subject.
Some people are so stupid....*hope points for humanity decreased*
@Danny

I'm glad you commented here... it saved me the trouble of emailing you :)

I think pigpens "ransom note" and his complete lack of intelligence when discussing his project has already canceled out any "exploration of the human experience" his game may have incited.

Between your game and his, I don't think the two of you had any of the same artistic goals. In fact, I get the feeling that Pigpen is a Wannabe Ledonne who made this game to try and get the same media attention that you did... how does it feel to be a role model :D
i dunno what yall are talkin about. this game is fun as hell
Why are people that don't like the game, don't like controversy, or don't like tasteless stupidity even on a web-site like newgrounds?

I mean it's common sense to not go to places your don't like, and/or to limit your children from going or doing things that violate your personal moral code. Even if it is obsene it is not flaunted in a normally public place (or at least a place that you would let your computer go to after being there once, assuming you don't like newgrounds) and most people have to, aside from using links from places such as gamepolitics, search for or at least go out of your way to find this game.

I did not even know about this game until I heard about it here, and I frequenrt places such as newgrounds and 4chan.

As final note, why do we even bring it up in places so public as this, where it is almost guaranteed to be found by the same people we are trying to stop, namely politicians? I mean, does it not defeat the purpose of slowing down stupidity, by flaunting it in what is generally well known public place?

> I am dead tired and cannot write properly right now i may add more tomarrow>
It's better than Fusion Frenzy 2...
"It’s better than Fusion Frenzy 2…"

Well, so is competitive toothpick swallowing, but I'd prefer not to do either.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but there's a "supersecret code" at the end of the game, that lets you skip through the levels:

Just start and press A+X.

Imho, this whole discussion is just an otiose bubble of hot air. Take it easy on yourselves and everybody else.

It's just a game. *repeat*
Peace.
For anyone who finds this game offensive: This game most certainly does not try to diminish the v-tech tragedy. If anything, this game stands as a testament to the victims of of the shooting.

It is so ironic that one would make a fun game out of a recent tragedy that it places greater significance on both sides -- the gravity of the events depicted, and the humor and cleverness of the game. And no matter your opinion, you have to admit that this game will help people remember the V-Tech shooting, rather than forget it. In a few years, some kid will stumble upon this game, wonder why it was so controversial, and then will research the event. I seriously doubt anyone would still remember Helen Keller if it weren't for those horrible/hilarious jokes made about her. 9/11, for all its car-mounted flags, charities, foundations, and blockbuster movies, will be forgotten soon unless we can come up with some good jokes about it.
Can Danny Ledonne complain about Ryan Lambourn when a bit of Intelligence and reality can see his game is just as bad as Ryan.

And that both of them need to seek help ASAP for their sick way of thinking towards people killed.

But a question for them both and the people who support these two of course if they have enough Intelligence to answer?

Would you make fun of people killed at both Columbine and Virginia Tech if your family and friends was the one that was killed?
I couldn't understand some parts of this article VA Tech Game Appears on Web, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.
Chat with live girls for free...

...
[...] GamePolitics.com » Blog Archive » VA Tech Game Appears on Web it like a commercial game when in fact it is just some cheap flash is a game that would suck even if it was unconnected to the VTech are more of a scary boogie man to keep freedom of thought in check [...]
[...] Several opinions on Gamepolitics I will support–Totally, completely, whole-heartedly: We should defend his right to free speech, but condemn his use of it. We must stand aside and make it clear that we, as gamers, are not this man, this child, this juvenile. We instead are those who represent a group of people, a demographic, a life-choice that does not include violence in the real world, or simulations of real tragic events. He is free to say it, but if PiGPEN wants us to support him when his world comes crashing down around him, he’s got another thing coming. PiGPEN, grow up. [...]
desktop wallpaper...

very cool!...
for those of ya who b!tch and cry about the game,sending hatemail,writing fourms/blogs about how horable it is,please go get f_uc_ed.people cry how "it happen in real life how can you make a game about it?!?!?" 1st stop trying to pin games like these,while your posting your hate/anger about it just STOP..go in the bathroom and look in the mirror,then SLAP yourself,while your posting that crap you kid has done worse with games like halo,doom,quake,mortal kombat,shadowman,i mean look at all the other sh!t out there you don't cry about..no need to say sorry,please just shut the f_ck up
other sh!t i for got that we sell massivly and makes most people of this fu_ked up united states choke on ****[…] Several opinions on Gamepolitics I will support–Totally, completely, whole-heartedly: We should defend his right to free speech, but condemn his use of it****
desert storm..yeah the GAME! what aboit it,the thousand we killed,the slotter....wtf makes it diffrent from this? hell xbox the countless vetnam games,hell NEO GEO with its "Nam 1975 ",would i really have to go on?
so he made a game,so it was people getting killed..now to close to some "Death lyrics Album: Spiritual Healing [1990]"
Life for a life should remain the rule
The innocent victim that is what's cruel
Look to the past is what we should do
When justice was done and justice was true
Using our laws to help their escape
An easy way out is what they create
Claiming insane is the way to freedom
People are stupid enough to believe them

Death and life taken so easily
Right or wrong, whose choice will it be?

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: http://tinyurl.com/ye6x9nv
Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: The very definition of "Lucky Shot":
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:56am
DarkSaber: http://tinyurl.com/yl2vfw6 Here's the link, good for conspiracy theories.
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:42am
JDKJ: Leaders never follow. Followers never lead.
Posted 11/23/09 at 06:48am
DarkSaber: Anyone been following this Hadley Climatic Research Centre server hack story?
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:48pm
ZippyDSMlee: AE:they feeding you well? I am enjoying win7 and heading to bed...uhg I need to get up early and start back to cleaning/painting blahg >< need tog et stuff done befor thanksgiving....
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:41pm
Andrew Eisen: Just got home from an eight hour recording session at Capitol Records. A lot of fun but damn exhausting.
Posted 11/22/09 at 08:44pm
BearDogg-X: 10 N. O. Who Dat?
Posted 11/22/09 at 09:45am
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I think doc phill is still sout about the break up with his wife he dose not fill holes as much as make them bigger these day
Posted 11/22/09 at 12:06am
JDKJ: You should get Phil McCraken to help you spackle those banisters.
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:57pm
ZippyDSMlee: Oh in the pirate hunter article I need my song ieda heckled DS,JD,Beemon sic im !!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:56pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:no I am tried from prepping the banisters for painting , worked on them from 12 to 4 and 6 to 8...after I got back from the store...got up early got ready...blah...been up all day..I need a nap...
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:42pm
JDKJ: No. You gonna stay up late tonight soldering?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:41pm
ZippyDSMlee: JDKJ:Don't you mean Mctite?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:33pm
JDKJ: @Zip: Neil, Bob, and Lik McTaint. The McTaint brothers. LOL!!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:44pm
Flamespeak: I still think military personell, killing other military personell, on a military complex should be handled by military courts.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I could see this a mixture of the two charges rather than just one or the other.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I think this was mainly a person who snapped, but evidence is showing he definitely had strong inlinations to islamic-extremism.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:41pm
Flamespeak: People are trying to claim that Hasan's actions were not terrorism. I don't jump on the 'terror train' like others, however
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:38pm
mentor07825: Britain certainly does deserve it! And the French! God damn it, it was a hand ball!!!
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