VA Tech Panel Witness: Violent Games Should Be Banned Like Heroin
VA Tech Panel Witness: Violent Games Should Be Banned Like Heroin
May 20, 2007
Should violent games be banned like the illegal and addictive narcotic heroin?That suggestion was made recently to the Virginia Tech Review Panel, an elite commission appointed by Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine to study the April 16th school shooting rampage committed by madman Cho Seung-Hui.
The panel, composed of a variety of experts and specialists as well as former Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge, held its first public meeting in Richmond on May 10th. Among those testifying was Don Phau, a member of former fringe presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche's political action committee.
Much has been written about LaRouche and his movement over the years, but little of that material is germane to GamePolitics' editorial focus. Phau's testimony before the VT Review Panel, however, is something that merits a look.
Speaking near the end of the May 10th hearing, Phau began by recounting Miami attorney Jack Thompson's claims that Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-Hui was motivated to commit the killings by playing Counter-strike. Phau also mentioned the Washington Post's initial report that Cho played the game, a reference that was later deleted by the newspaper.
Like Thompson, Phau also cited the 2002 Erfurt school shooting and the killer's play of Counter-strike. In addition, Phau referenced game violence critic David Grossman and his writings about video game violence. In speaking about first-person shooter games, Phau said:
[FPS games] were developed after the Vietnam War... But the video game industry in the year 2000... when we had the Y2K phenomenon, the video game industry decided to make a lot of money. They developed the first-person shooter games and Counter-strike was developed by Microsoft.
GP: There's a good bit of misinformation packed into that paragraph. It's true that FPS games were developed after the Vietnam War - about 20 years after - with id Software's 1992 release of Wolfenstein 3-D. At the same time Phau seems to be saying that the FPS genre was created in 2000, which is obviously incorrect.
Nor did Microsoft develop Counter-strike, as Phau states, although an Xbox version was published under the MS label in 2003. This misinformation was also put forth by Thompson around the time of the Virginia Tech massacre.
Phau also seems to be drawing on Grossman's frequent assertion that FPS games are used by the military to break down recruits' inhibition to kill. However a recent book by ABC news reporter John Stossel disputes Grossman's claim.
Phau continued:
These games, I propose, should be banned. The same way you cannot buy heroin; the same way you cannot be a 16-year-old and buy pornography.
Phau also incorrectly cites statistics on the ability of underage buyers to purchase M-rated games:
82% of games rated M... 82% of kids can buy these games. You can go to Wal-mart. You can go to Best Buy and buy them.
Actually, due to increased retail ratings enforcement efforts, the most recent (April, 2007) figure from the Federal Trade Commission is 42%. It was 85% in the year 2000 and 78% in 2001, which is what Phau may be referring to.
GP readers can watch a video of Phau's testimony before the Virginia Tech Review Panel on the C-SPAN website (skip ahead to 3:26:30 for Phau). If you'd just like to hear the audio, GamePolitics has created a six-minute mp3 of Phau's testimony.
The LaRouche camp touts Phau's appearance before the panel on its website, echoing his call to ban violent games. Among other projects listed on the site is one entitled Destroy Al Gore. Readers will also find The Cheneyites and the Killer-Trainer Lobby, a lengthy article that sees collusion between the government and the video game industry in just about every corner.
In regard to the LaRouche material, it's hard to miss the group's overlap in ideas with those of Jack Thompson. GamePolitics recently asked the anti-game attorney if he was working with the LaRouche team on video game issues. His terse answer:
I have nothing to do with LaRouche's people.
Comments
*tries to make some sort of a joke about having to binjury before you perjury, but fails*
http://www.stanfordreview.org/Archive/Volume_XXXII/Issue_2/News/news2.sh...
Wow....just...wow
I checked all over the web, including wikipedia, and none of the reports on VT point to him being a gamer- or even having games.
Actually, Grossman has pretty impressive credentials. Unfortunately, that's all he's got. The original data his research is founded on was fraudulent, his deductions and logical connections are spurious, and his conclusions are absurd.
You would ban someone's freedom of expression and freedom of speech.
Last I checked, the government wasn't allowed to censor ANYTHING. The can pass legislation regulating it. But they can't out and out censor anything.
I wonder what would happen if I send this Phau with the correct information and dispute every single claim he just made.
~Otaku-Man
"but that on the contrary, this New Violence is a just as much a threat to human civilization, as a global outbreak of cannibalism"
WTF!? Comparing school shootings and perceived youth violence to a "global outbreak of cannibalism"? Most people I know don't even think of cannibalism. For them, the worst crime imaginable would be murder or rape (yes, even my gamer friends for those people who think we are desensitized). Almost makes you wonder if the author of the article contemplates eating people on a daily basis.
If these idiots are trying to scare people, that's all they are really trying to do, why not just say anarchy or global nuclear holocaust or war? That's much more effective and comes off much more sane.
The article even says, "these computer games were originally developed in the United States for use by the military, for the purpose of breaking down the inhibitions which new recruits would experience when ordered to kill enemy troops". So they are accusing the American government of this? I think I sensing a trend.
These people have no sense of personal responsibility or Free Will!
Long story short, the Schiller Institute is a nut-house. I can't even Begin to rebut everything on this ONE article. It'd take too long. If you're curious I'll re-post the link here.
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/new_viol/hzl_banviol_502.html
Oops i didn't know about that one, but after a quick search it's the only one.
Plus, things like that happened in USA even before the first videogames ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman for instance )
He was under heavy pressure to pass. From experience, I can tell you students are pushed to perform and achieve. While this is wonderful, many are "forced" to cram in the rest of their lives around their study.
While it may seem obscene to some of you that a university or college student be doing something that isn't learning, thus leading toward longer terms and higher expenses on the institution, there is a value to be had in taking things slowly:
Low stress, an open mind and creativity are not crushed under demands.
Granted, in the eastern nations, it's 10x worse than it is in the western world, Japan's Hikkomori life-style often the end-result for people both in the east and western world when they become qualified and yet nobody will hire them out of a lack of experience.
The education system is trying to turn us all into PHD scholars yet increasingly, that's not what the world wants of us as employees. The idea of an employee thinking for themselves is obscene for the most part.
They want...
-Experience
-Social skills
-The ability to deliver
-The ability to see what everyone else misses or give original/fresh input
-Someone who actually enjoys the job they're doing
Thats either a spelling error or an incredibly subtle latin joke, since 'voli-' is a prefix for 'free will'.
(Kudos to google for this)
http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/developing_stories/new_violence.shtml
anything else rediculous that I can add to this list that holds no bearing on what happend and was just an Incorrect reference by phau (obviously not a true gamer or a very good one if he doesn't take the time to be right and proof watch himself) and as far as the "Just for men" crew, Assholes looking for something to shit on.
Violent crime rates, as well as the individual rates of violent crimes, in the US have been falling steadily from 1993 till leveling off at about 2004.
The idea of blaming a crime which has been around since the dawn of humanity, no matter what viewpoint you take on that dawn, and exists in animals too, on something invented in the last 20 years just seems absurd to be.
Marathon was released after Wolf3D. In addition, Wolf3D still isn't the first FPS, as it's predated by Catacomb 3-D (possibly Hovertank as well if you include non-textured walls).
A quick way to tell which game came first is to check the rendering engine. Simple rendering engines appeared first, which are limited in map complexity or some other factor (e.g. maximum sight distance, as with Ultima Underworld). More advanced engines gain support of more complex maps, such as stairs and stuff.
- http://www.schillerinstitute.org/new_viol/ctte_vs_newviolence.html
- http://american_almanac.tripod.com/violpt.htm
- http://www.larouchepub.com/eirtoc/2007/eirtoc_3417.html
- http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/New_violence.html
Wrong. Marathon came out two years after Wolf3D. It is however far more advanced than Doom.
I see what you did there.
What did I just read? Sounds like the chewbacca defence.
"VIOLENT VIDEOGAMES WERE MADE AFTER THE VIETNAM WAR!!!"
sane people- "so?"
Him- "THEN Y2K HAPPENED AND FPS'S WERE MADE!"
"what?"
-----------
Also, in terms of a class-action suit, I think the ECA might be the only entity that can organize such a thing effectively.
What? Really? WOW?!?!
Sheesh this guy is very out of touch with anything more complicated then a calculator.
Wolf3d was 1992.
err... i just looked that up, and Marathon came out in 94'... Wolfenstein 3D came out in 92
Are you serious?
Panel Mailing Address:
Virginia Tech Review Panel
P.O. Box 12337
Arlington, VA 22219-2337
Also...did you know that Fighting games were invented after The French Revolution?
Funny i think you should do the same, and by that matter you should look into the facts of all the words that you just said, since none of them make sence.
"[FPS games] were developed after the Vietnam War… But the video game industry in the year 2000… when we had the Y2K phenomenon, the video game industry decided to make a lot of money. They developed the first-person shooter games and Counter-strike was developed by Microsoft."
WTF
I can see you bitching about "neo" culture in the Y2K rant however culture evolves and dissmising advancement in media is akin to the whole books are bad of the middle ages.
As for FPSs begin made after Vietnam stop the presses...look at the tech of the time and then tell me THEY COULD MAKE IT....FPS's or FP for that matter didn't really come about till the late 80s and most of that was in arcades ,get your house in order before you gather up info slop it togather and spout nonsense.
these people will never get what they are pushing for. an outright ban of ALL violent games, so even adults cant get them is absolutly insane and as dumb as some politicans are, i doubt any laws that would do that will ever get past or even get considered. as annoying as he is, thompson is more for restricting violent games from minors, which is something i could under stand in *some* cases but its his tactics and behavior i dont like.
this sort of heat has happened to almost ever form of media out there before, music, tv, movies, you name, they probably have been through it. sure there are a few rocky moments but in the end, the 1st amendment beats all. we dont need to fear these people and try and pile them with lawsuits to hurt them back. they are doing the damage to themselves when it is revealed sooner or later than video games are nothing more than entertainment, not "murder simulators".
Yes, but vilolent videogames can't exactly be grown in our garden shed, unfortunately.
The idea of a class action lawsuit against the anti-gamers was floated beofre in the past, specifically when contemplating one against Thompson. It was a good idea until some people said it would be difficult to bring one unless a clear case of libel or slander could be proven. So any talk of such a suit was abandoned when it looked like we wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.
If your fiance's family lawyer is aware of some sort of clause that we weren't before, then hey, I'm all for it! There are a lot of people here would would love to do on their own time what the ESA and ESRB so far haven't been either able or willing to do; that is take these bastards to court and publicly discredit them. If it's possible, then I say go for it.
In that case, children can sometimes have access to tobacco, alcohol and the keys to their parents cars. All of which are fairly illegal for children to make use of. Guess it's time for the US to outlaw all those, as well!
This is something I haven't thought of before honestly but while griping to him about the crap video games are getting and even more the people that play and make them he suggested that. If this is true someone let me know.
I'm sick of the crap we're getting.
"I have nothing to do with LaRouche’s people."
That's the smartest thing you've said in a while Jack. Believe it or not, but I thik the Larouche people are crazier than Thompson. Distancing himself from them is smart. I do think it's funny that these crazy people really happen to like Jack's ideas. Why does it always seem like Jack gets the most support from people who don't know what they're talking about?
Scientology, Larouche people, Jack, all of this country's nonsense seems to be floating to the top because of v-tech. I wish we could just skip this.
...seriously.
yeah. even adults. he wants violent games to be illegal and wiped from existance.
It does get really annoying and boring saying the same thing over and over again.
Don Faux is an idiot, plain and simple.
He should be removed from the proceedings for incompetence and whoever decided that he should be allowed to speak should also be removed on the same grounds.
hell.
Two: Full Spectrum Command is not a 1st-person shooter. You could respond that it's a 3rd-person shooter and the difference isn't really important for these purposes, but that would also be incorrect. You do not have direct controller over a character. You do not shoot anyone. You give orders to AI-controlled soldiers. It is, after all, meant to train people for command, not for shooting people. It's a real-time strategy game.
CONTACT DON PHAU-- CALL 703 771-8490
not sure if it works but it was on the net
"years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole."
and you want to say games are bad....looks like money is on your mind
And honestly, these, ahem, "gentleman" have forgotten Columbine and the Robida cases a long time ago as well as the cases against rock and roll and rap, as this is the same crap as before.
i know jack tried to stop the sale of bully and so forth but that was just one game, he hasnt tried to ban every FPS out there unlike what this guy is ranting about. im not supporting or defending thompson in any way, but i see a clear difference between their thinking.
if you agree with what i say, i urge you to cut/paste, modify, write your own comments to the VTRP.
-------------------------------------
VTRP,
it has recently come to my attention that you allowed Don Phau to "testify" before you. while Mr. Phau's commentary might be shocking, you NEED to know that it was also full of inconsistancies, untruths, incorrect "facts," and what may even be outright lies.
We do not need to further slip into an authoritarian state that blindly blames what it does not understand. We do not need to sully the Constitution. Mr. Phau, Jack Thompson, and David Grossman want to scare you. They want to frighten you into giving up civil liberties in order to be "safe."
What they don't want is for the perpetrators of heinous acts to be held responsible for their own actions. What they don't want is for you to know the truth. Do not let them blind you, please.
-------------------------------------
Other than that, Don Phau is poor man's Jack Thompson. It almost seems like he tried to copy Thompson and Grossman word for word, and he can't even do that. (1) Phau sounds a little like Rep. Roy Burrell during the hearing in the Louisiana House of Representatives. Phau seems incapable of speaking clearly and efficiently. His speech reminds me of Woody Allen actually. Unfortunately for Phau, he doesn't seem to have a future in comedy. Phau also seems unable (or simply does not know) to pronounce the shooter's name. It's Cho Seung-Hui, not Sing-Hui. I also find it comedic that his only relevant link is that Cho used a Glock which is also available for use on Counter-Strike. I wonder how many hundreds of movies and books have used Glock (really quite a popular pistol actually). I don't think Phau presents a danger because his facts and links are laughable at best.
I would also like to mention that the only "training program" given to soldiers was "Full Spectrum Command". Not only that, but "Full Spectrum Command" was only test-run by a select group of officers at Fort Benning in order to the test the tactical proficiency that could be gained by introducing a modern training program. "Full Spectrum Command" was designed by the Institute of Creative Technologies in order to teach strategy, not desensitization.
To sum things up, "Full Spectrum Command" does not destroy inhibitions towards killing, it was never intended or provided to ground infantry, and was never released on a large scale to the military.
If you guys ever run into some trouble about this BS notion that the military uses games to "deactivate" violence inhibitions, there's your lifeline.
(1) If you listen to the MP3 file (3:25), Phau states that that "killing simulators" were developed after the Vietnam War. Grossman/Thompson usually state that more violent training methods were developed during the Korean War.
http://www.kobrasrealm.net/kobra/misc/game-critics.php if you're interested.
That being said, these commies don't stand a chance.
Why would they allow someone who is part of what is at best considered a fringe political movement and at worst a cult, and allow them to speak which would in effect give them an air of legitimacy I have no idea.
Wow. That reads like spam generated using Markov chaining from a Jack Thomspon rpess relase. I bet if you click it you'll be taken to a site where you can buy counterfeit Cialis.
I like his grasp of the timeline, I wonder how he would describe the 20th century.. wonder when he would place world war 2.
What on earth does the Y2K phenomenon have to do with the videogame industry, apart from both being connected with computers in a general sense? Is he suggesting Y2K somehow inspired the industry to try and make a lot of money? Isn't that what anyone in any industry tries to do in the first place?
Sheesh.
But seriously, this is the kinda crap I keep harping on. Why is now one in the INdustry leveling a major slander suit on phau and anyone else who repeats his drivel, certianly the level of misinformation and lies is within the area of slander already.
Even if you don't win, just fighting back would get things started.
And if you do win, well, think of how quickly people might start wiseing up and checking there facts first before blurting them out.
Hal Halpin, time you got to work.
...
People who have no idea what they're talking about are annoying, but ultimately, the fact that they're essentially wrong will prevent them from being particularily dangerous.
Is "Phau" pronounced the same as "faux"? Let's call him Mr. Faux from now on. It's a fitting name isn't it?
Anyway, I'm going to wrap up everything everyone here is thinking in one sentence. Mr. Faux, you are a terribly misinformed, asinine, technophobic liar and the ESA and ECA should sue your ass.
I suspect John Bruce has more to do with than he wants to let on. Either that, or he's beginning to know what it's like to be David Walsh with a John Bruce pimple on his butt.
I wonder if this hearing required witnesses to give testimony under oath.
And if the Gov. and/or any senator or representative decides to use such testimony to try to push forth any sort of legislation, I suspect that it will come back to bite THEM on the butt once some intelligent individual points out all the misinformation and conspiracy theory paranoia that these fake experts have been spreading.
As to Mr. Halpin, I haven't joined the ECA yet. Not because I don't have in Mr. Halpin's organization to be ABLE to stand up for Citizen's and Parent's Rights, but I'd like to know if they WILL be using their strength, and my money, to take an active role in that defense. If I want a mouthpiece, I'll stick with my free VGVN and send my own letters as well. But if I'm going to pay an organization to defend my Rights, then they better be actively doing it in court, on TV, in the newspapers, and so forth.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.jackherer.com/chapter14.html (near the bottom)
No one takes these guys seriously anymore, thank God...
The guy in the picture looks like he could be MC Thompson's cousin or something. Except for the fact that you could land a 747 on that nose, that is. Who is that?
About Don Phau, remember his article about "The Satanic Roots of Rock & Roll" : http://www.konformist.com/rocknroll/satanrocks.htm
Also notice how in other parts of the world there isn't that many school shootings, at least none that we hear about. These people need to check facts before they go on rants about what they feel is right for the "kids".
and their Mathaba "news agency" has been all over the Va Tech shootings http://mathaba.net/news/?x=553662 scroll down to the bottom of that page for links to the other stories they have posted. I especially like the one about how the media covering it up as part os some conspiracy...
Seriously, isn't it punishable BY LAW to lie during any form of governmental testimony?
It comes from these guys: http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/developing_stories/new_violence.shtml
Google May Use Games to Compile Psycho-Profiles
May 12 (EIRNS)--Google's plans to build psycho-profiles of millions of online game-players came to light in a patent it filed in Europe and the US last month, the Guardian reports today. The company thinks it can glean information about a person's preferences and personality type by tracking their online behavior, which could then be sold to advertisers. Details such as whether a person is more likely to be aggressive, hostile or dishonest could be obtained and stored for future use.
The patent says that people playing online role-playing games such as Second Life and World of Warcraft would be particularly good to target, because they interact with other players and make decisions that probably reflect their behavior in real life.
The patent says Google could also monitor people playing on any game console that hooks up to the internet, including the Sony PlayStation, Nintendo Wii and Microsoft's Xbox. It says information could be retrieved from previous game details stored on memory cards.
The Lord-of-the-Rings style fantasy game World of Warcraft has over 8 million subscribers worldwide who each pay $15-20 per month to take part. Second Life, an online virtual community which mimics the real world, has over 5 million registered users and 1.2 million regular visitors. A recent report by Screen Digest suggests that the market for "virtual worlds" exceeds $1 billion per year.
Google said it has no plan to introduce the technology in the near future. "Google registers different patents irrespective of whether we intend to use them."
I just stopped play I won't play until we refute these guys.
Quoted for truth.
Columbine, Virginia Tech... none of them can be blamed on video games. I don't care how much bullshit you reinforce your opinions with. The evidence is stacked against you.
What will happen if they make games illegal?
Just imagine....
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/VGartist9000/451degrees.jpg
I wonder what they will go after next?
Your shock and outrage are for naught without action.
I find it frightening to notice that noone seems to find a possible endangerement in owning and buying a gun in the US.
On topic: Whats wrong with these people who can't distinguish the right cause and consequence. Why are those people involved in such a high debat which involves the security of the US citizens and therefore also the rest of the world. This is a very odd and a good example of Ostrich Politics.
Maybe he shoudl get out from under his rock because by my count most of the games available are not rated M as a matter of fact most games fall into the E or E10 catagory making up almost 60% of all games released in a given year.
I have commented on this before on other posts but just as I have said with regard to Jack Thompson. Video games, movies, television, music, they are not the cause of the problem they are products of the culture we live in. If a video game or a movie makes you kill someone then you were going to kill someone anyway. An adult should know the difference between real and virtual and be able to seperate the two. Personally I think shows like CSI and others would be more informational for career criminals in giving them better ideas on how to get away with commiting crimes.
You are completely right! Unfortunately, this loon agrees with you, too. They literally want to ban EVERYTHING! Rock, Rap, Jazz, anything not on their approved classical list, television, games, etc. Hell, from what I've read, I'm surprised they have websites at all.
Check some of the links people have provided for more information on his organization. According to one site, they even wanted Mark Chapman declared a national hero BECAUSE he murdered John Lennon!
This is the reality that parents and guardians are facing. With more and more video game consoles and more and more children playing them, parents must choose what to do. Whether it’s limiting the child’s playing time to taking the games away completely. The fact of the matter is that violent video games produce violent behavior.
In an experiment by Calvert and Tan, college students who played violent video games reported higher heart rates, more dizziness and nausea, and showed higher levels of aggression in posttests than students who played nonviolent games (Shin). Also, in the same study, those who had played the violent video games displayed much more physical and verbal aggression towards inanimate objects and playmates during a free play (Shin).
Another study conducted by Karen E. Dill, Ph.D. and Graig A. Anderson found that lower academic grades were consistent in students that played video games regularly, which could, or might not, be another cause for aggression and anger increases (Shin). Their studies also found that violent video games cause more aggression increases than violent movies or television because of the interaction factor (Shin).
According to the joint statement by the doctors at the Congressional Public Health Meeting, children exposed to violence see it as an effective way of settling conflicts and are more accepting of violent behavior (Cook et. a). It’s also been found that being exposed to such violence can lead to desensitization towards it in real life (Cook et. a). All of this violence can also lead to a fear of society and a mistrusting attitude later in life (Cook et. a).
The negative effects of video games include but are not limited to violent behavior. There are physical effects from playing such violent video games as well, such as cardiovascular problems, anxiety issues, and game induced seizures (Kearney). Children are also overweight and less active than those 20 years ago (Kearney). Another problem is that compulsive players may form addictions to these games trying to run away from the problems of their everyday lives, cause even more problems (Kearney).
In the case of Columbine, it was recorded that one of the killers, Klebold, said, “I hope we kill 250 people, it’s going to be like f---ing Doom” (Kearney). Doom was the most violent video game in the marketplace at the time of the incident. The two teenagers played it religiously and used game editors to make it a two-player game with defenseless victims, practicing for what they called “judgment day,” the day they would attack Columbine High School (Kearney). This is the outcome of these violent games twisting young peoples minds into violent, desensitized monsters.
These games are inaccurately named, because games are suppose to be fun for people to enjoy, and the kinds of transgressions that have rooted from these games isn’t fun for anyone. These video games make children experience violent behavior, poor physical quality, and may even lead to possible addiction. These “games” can’t be accepted for too much longer, because our society as a whole is at risk.