Church of England Wants Japanese People to Pressure Sony; Tony Blair Jumps Into Dispute

June 14, 2007 -
The Church of England, embroiled in a dispute with Sony over the inclusion of Manchester Cathedral in PS3 hit Resistance: Fall of Man, has turned to the people of Japan for support. As reported by the Associated Press, the Very Rev. Rogers Govender, dean of Manchester Cathedral, said yesterday:
For a global manufacturer to recreate the interior of any religious building such as a mosque, synagogue, or in this case, a cathedral, with photo realistic quality and then encourage people to have gun battles in the building is beyond belief and in our view highly irresponsible.

Today I want to appeal directly to the people of Japan to help us put pressure on Sony to respond. So I speak directly to those citizens who share our concerns.

Meanwhile, Sony said that it has begun talks with the CoE over the issue, but Govender disputed that account:
We believe a silent response on the issue is not acceptable behavior.

Prime Minister Tony Blair (left) has also jumped into the fray. During a briefing in the House of Commons, Blair said:
It is important that any of the companies who are engaged in promoting this type of goods have some sense of responsibility and also some sensitivity to the feelings of others. It's important that people understand there is a wider social responsibility as well as simply responsibility for profit.

Meanwhile, Sony rep Nanako Kato said that while Sony takes the issue seriously, but noted historic buildings are often used in entertainment. She cited movie scenes featuring Godzilla and the Tokyo Tower and King Kong in Manhattan.

Comments

Somehow I'd think after all the games we made of us killing the Japanese in WW2 games, they're not going to back down.

Godzilla vs Church of England: FIGHT!!!

Soo... Jesus IS copyrighted?

So the lawyers just got a new job using the fast talking commercial guys for church sermons now. Lovely, that's all we needed lol.

I agree with you, Bogart. It is their turn. Also, is it even legal for the Japanese to take sides against Sony?

@Bogart

Most WW2 games are set in the European Theaters, few come to mind where your fighting in the pacific.

Blairs answer to the initial questioning seemed like a very meh response. Almost like "oh god, I hate having to be so damned polite when they bring up stupid shit like this."

Touche, Kato-San! :)

Great point. How many times in daikaiju films have we seen Tokyo get destroyed over and over again? If the Japanese don't have a problem with seeing their own landmarks getting destroyed neither should anyone else over their own respective landmarks.

I find it a bit underhanded that Govender is trying to go as far as to try and get the Jpanese people to pressue Sony. It ain't gonna happen though. As was pointed out, they have a different mindset about this thing.

Didn't Tony Blair already step down as Prime Minister? So shouldn't that read former Prime Minister?

Technically not for another 13 days.

Bear in mind incidentally, that Blair is also a dedicated christian, and has drawn on the church for support in the past.

According to these people we are no longer allowed to use famous locations in any form of entertainment? So we're gonna have to edit the films Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow, Kingdom of Heaven, and the Spider Man films. They have of shots of famous buildings or are set in famous locations. And that was just pulling a few out of thin air.

We believe a silent response on the issue is not acceptable behavior.
Rather, you want a big stink tto be made in the hope it will stop people using public buildings in entertainment in future.
Or should i just say video games, not general entertainment?

@Gameboy

You might want to add Planet of the Apes (old and new).

@CoE
You guys have virtually little to no legal standing. If you claim that the game recreated the entire bloody building, SHOW US SOME COMPARISON SHOTS.

[...] [source:gamepolitics] [...]

Wait a minute let me get this straight

The church of england wants Japan to fight their battles for them? They're too cowrdly to do it themselves? WIMPS! Maybe someone should take a gun to the cathedral, oh wait i just happen to resistance to me, pity there are no humans to shoot at.

This is the church of england we are talking about, this is why people argue about separation of church and state so often. So, who has some pictures of the churches interior, I have been aching to give hammer a try. :D

Black Manta said:

How many times in daikaiju films have we seen Tokyo get destroyed over and over again?

In one of the Gojira flicks from the '90s, the building that is the center of the Japanese IRS is destroyed, which lead to standing ovations during screenings. :)

This sums up to nothing but "noise" to me.
They are like a spoiled brat from these moves, just wanting attention for something that doesn't add up.
No one cares for Blair, at least none of the British friends I knew. They said Blair was worse than Bush, and that was years ago; I'm pretty sure a stain like that sticks to you for life.

So why do people give him attention? He must've noticed their agenda "get attention" and thought he'd jump on the bandwagon (or lil yellow school bus).

Hmmmm.....

Sony should take this fight to the courts and win. The Church doesn't have a case.

However....they could turn the tides by asking the Hellsing Organization to decimate sony.

instead of wasting our time commenting here on this website about the stupidity of this case i would very strongly urge everyone to send a message of complaint to
manchesterdbf@manchester.anglican.org
i did my research and this seems to be at least one of the email addresses that can contact the Manchester diocese. I strongly urge people to send well written and balanced messages not stupid messages of hate as this will not help only make matters worse. This is not about Sony getting hit its about our right to play video games and being sick of conservative religious organization speaking about things they have no idea about and trying to stir up hatred and alienating people.

I second william's idea.

Japan has a Christian population of 7 tenths (0.7%) of their total population, what makes them think the dominant Shinto and Buddhists (84%) give a damn?

@Zeloth
actually the Buddhists may

http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/pureland_sangha/id22.html


"BUDDHISM UNDER SEIGE: This disturbing web site exposes the horrors of the persecution of Buddhists by Christians in Korea. Includes pictures of burning and charred temples and many articles. WARNING: This site contains many graphic photos."

@ Gameboy: I worked on Spider-Man 3 and 2 video games. Believe me, we had to get permissions to use famous buildings (usually had to pay for the rights). If Sony did not get the proper permissions, they could be sued.

On the other hand, it's likely that Sony did get permissions, but Church of England didn't know there would be shooting in the cathedral. Maybe they thought it would be a game about puppies and rainbows.

If Sony does indeed owe the CoE for the rights to depict the cathedral, fine. This move to turn the people of Japan against Sony, though? Lame. And decidedly ineffective, I should think.

@ Zeloth
What does that link have to do with this story?

@Korrd
The quote is from the link and gives credence to my earlier comment that Weatherlight contested . Why help those who are persecuting others of your religion?

@ Zeloth
Okay, that's a stretch. So you're saying that Buddhists in Japan should hold Christians in England responsible for the actions of some ignorant fanatics in Korea? It seems like you're implying that the behavior of those Korean Christians are representative of all Christians worldwide.

By that reasoning, do you also believe that all Muslims are terrorists?

This isn't directly related to the Japanese intervention, but nonetheless it is directed at the issue as a whole.

There are two things Americans probably won't understand about this whole thing.

1) Unlike in America, in the UK, because we have decent gun control measures, gun crime is incredibly rare, and unfortunately Manchester has become a hotbed of gun crime in the last decade or so. There are thousands of families in Manchester who have been affected by gun crime and just because thousands of people get shot in America every day doesn't make it right. Just because it is aliens getting shot doesn't make it any less sensitive. Just to use a slightly hyperbolic example, how would Americans feel if the Brits made a game where you have to crash a plane into a building modelled on the WTC that is filled with aliens instead of hapless humans? Or a game where you play a disgruntled Asian student and go through a college modelled on Virginia Tech locking aliens in classrooms and killing them?

2) The designers have taken one of the most revered and holy sites regarded by the Church of England and have turned it into a mockery without even asking the CoE. Could you imagine what would happen if a game designer decided to set a game in Mecca and have the player crawling all over the Kaaba (the holiest site in Islam) while shooting aliens down? Exactly, so the designer wouldn't do it. Therefore, I fail to see how the designer feels that just because he doesn't fear that he is going to get bombed by fanatics that he has the right to do this.

Sigh, I figured this kind of junk would come up so I'll just revise my argument.

"Christianity has increased, but it is probably still felt to be a foreign religion by many Japanese. The increase in interest has not added greatly to the Christian base in Japan, probably due to the fact that the belief is in one God, thus eliminating the relaxed polytheism of Shinto and Japanese Buddhism."
taken from http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/japan/religion.htm

Different beliefs may not be a bit unreasonable basis for not helping but it's been done for a lot less.




Also, if you're wondering why I post the links;
To plagiarize is to take and use another person's thoughts, writings or inventions as one's own, without acknowledging or giving the source of the ideas and expressions.

@A Limey Scumbag
I wouldn't care if a game was made where you crash into the WTC, in fact, you CAN in one of Microsoft's older flight sims. As for a V-tech game, I would mind a bit, not for the content but for the time. If it were to be made in a few years it might be taken better, not now though.

Also, how are fighting aliens mocking? They came to a new world and tried to kill it's current inhabitants so they could claim it, sounds familiar...hmm, didn't this happen in the 1600s? Replace aliens with Christians and reduce the humans down to 1 race, Native Americans.

I agree with the trolls.

I personally am fine with the idea of using a church as a setting for an FPS. Remember the school-modeled-in-Counterstrike fiasco? That was OK, right? If it's morally OK to play a game in which you run around a realistic school schooting human opponents, then it's surely OK to run around a realistic church shooting aliens. Before anyone jumps in there and says that the CS schools are third party content, I'm talking morally. It matters not to the player who made the level, and whether something is appropriate shouldn't depend on who created it.

So, playing with fake guns in a realistic-but-fake church is fine by me. However, the designers made a game in which you shoot things in a realistic recreation of a holy site in a location struck by gun crime. They can't possibly have thought that nobody would be offended.

@A Limey Scumbag

Look, I highly, highly doubt Insomniac, not Sony, Insomniac games looked into Manchester's history of gun crime and went "Hey now what'd be funny?"

This is entirely a non issue. By your logic the Empire State building should be removed from all games taking place in NYC, the great pyramids should be removed from any games taking place in Egypt, and any and all Buddhist statuues should be removed from games that take place in China

This is still going on?

CoE needs to give up.

Difference between famous buildings in New York City and the Manchester Cathedral is that on is an ancient, historical landmark and pretty much public domain. While the other isn't except for maybe the Statue of Liberty and bridges.

Ken kutaragi probably printed copies of that letter so that he could wipe his ass with them. Seriously, they dont have to do squat in this considering they didnt break the law in any way I can see.

And also, I thought Blair would be gone by now. When does he get out of office again?

@ Weatherlight

I'm a Buddhist gamer and I don't care. But others may think differently.

@ Zeloth
"'Christianity has increased, but it is probably still felt to be a foreign religion by many Japanese.'"
Your tangent on religion isn't entirely relevent to the subject at hand, so I'm a little confused as to what point you seem intent on proving. The links and excerpts you've posted have little to do with this story. It seems you're attempting to demonize Christianity, as though to somehow prove the CoE is in the wrong. I would argue that this is not the place for your anti-Christian agenda.

"Also, how are fighting aliens mocking?"
I'm not sure if you intentionally missed the point or it was due to inteptitude, but it wasn't about aliens. Scumbag was illustrating the lack of respect. Manchester Cathedral, as well as his stated example of the Kaaba, are highly revered sites. To treat them with such disrespect is an affront to some people's sensibilities.

Other people don't care. I personally wouldn't have a problem with either depiction, really, but it's different for people who feel a close bond with the location in question, and it would have been nice to see a modicum of sensitivity to that reverence from the game's designers. I understand the desire to tie the game to the real world, but they could easily have used a similar, yet fictional cathedral and sacrificed little.

@ kurisu7885
I agree that the cathedral was not likely included to make light of Manchester's gun crime problem. I'm certain it was used simply because it's a well known landmark, but even though I am neither from the UK nor Christian, I can respect that some people don't appreciate the context.

As much as the inclusion of Manchester Cathedral doesn't affect me (because 1) I've never been there, and 2) I'll never play the game), I can't help but draw comparisons to question my reaction. For example, how many Americans would be similarly upset if a game depicted a gun battle in Arlington National Cemetery?

@ Vinzent
No argument there.

I think the biggest problem I have with this story is that the church asked for monetary compensation right up front. Okay, so they had a problem with the church being used in a violent game, I can believe that. At most they are owed a public apology.

But they wanted money too. It's hard to take someone's feelings seriously when they have a price list too. Especially a group that's supposed to be above such concerns.

[...] June 14: The Church of England appeals directly to the Japanese people (I’m really not sure what that’s supposed to do). Also, UK Prime Minister Tony Blair weighs in against Sony. [...]

[...] Resistance: Fall of Man (2007) - When religious leaders at Manchester Cathedral learned that PS3 launch title Resistance: Fall of Man included a level based on the interior of the house of worship they demanded a recall, drawing a dubious linkage between Resistance and local gun violence in Manchester. The story made international headlines and earned criticism from then-Prime Minister Tony Blair and Parliament. Sony issued an apology, but officials still aren’t satisfied. [...]

Everyone keeps going on about how we make games with tokyo and japanese landmarks getting destroyed in ww2. Well has everyone forgotten that japan attacked and invaded large amounts of asia and froced are soldiers to work as slaves?! Before murdering them! They deserve to get to watch their own landmarks destroyed. But what has the church of England ever done to them? When they have done so much to other people.
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
Sleaker@EZK - I think some people are concerned beacuse it's a predatory technique targetted toward younger people that don't understand on top of offering the worst interest rates of any retailer around.07/30/2014 - 11:33am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/30/europe-gets-long-detained-shin-megami-tensei-4-at-cut-price/ "Sorry you had to wait a year for SMT4, would a price cut make it sting less?"07/30/2014 - 10:29am
NeenekoI would hope not. Though it is not unheard of for store specific cards to be pretty good.07/30/2014 - 8:17am
E. Zachary KnightDoes anyone, or at least any intelligent person, expect a retail branded credit card to be anything close to resembling a "good deal" on interest rates?07/30/2014 - 7:13am
SleakerGamestop articles popping up everywhere about their ludicrous new Credit card offerings at a whopping pre-approval for 26.9% APR07/29/2014 - 10:19pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/podcasting-patent-troll-we-tried-to-drop-lawsuit-against-adam-carolla/ the podcasting patent troll scum is trying to turn tail and run.07/29/2014 - 9:50pm
MaskedPixelanteOf course it's improved. At launch, Origin was scanning your entire hard drive, but now it's just scanning your browsing history. If that's not an improvement, I dunno what is!07/29/2014 - 8:59pm
Papa Midnighthttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/12029-Has-EAs-Origin-Service-Improved-Any-Over-the-Last-Two-Years07/29/2014 - 8:25pm
Sora-ChanSo it's just a matter of having better emulation software. If it can be done with a 3DS game, with all the memory and what not it takes up, it can be done with a GBA title through emulation.07/29/2014 - 7:30pm
Sora-ChanOther VC titles for the NES and Gameboy had the same setup where you couldn't access the homescreen without quitting out of the game til a later update when those games were released for the public outside of the founder program.07/29/2014 - 7:28pm
Sora-Chanthe 3DS can, and does, run GBA games, as seen by the founder gifts, which included a number of GBA titles. As for running GBA games and still having access to the home screen, I beleive it's more of the game emulation software needs to be updated.07/29/2014 - 7:27pm
Matthew Wilsonthe 3ds already swaps os's with the original ds. plus I dont think people expect miverse interaction when playing a gba game.07/29/2014 - 6:06pm
MaskedPixelanteBut that's not the issue, the 3DS is perfectly capable of emulating GBA games. The problem is that it doesn't have enough available system resources to run it alongside the 3DS OS, and thus it doesn't have access to stuff like Miiverse and save states.07/29/2014 - 5:45pm
Matthew WilsonI am well aware that it requires more power, but if a GBA emulator could run well on a original psp, than it should work on a 3ds.07/29/2014 - 5:36pm
ZenThe reason the SNES could run Gameboy, or the Gamecube could run GBA was because their adapters included all of the necessary hardware to do it in the respective add-ons. The systems were just conduits for control inputs and video/sound/power.07/29/2014 - 4:51pm
ZenMatthew: Emulation takes more power than people realize to run a game properly. You can make something run on less, but Nintendo...as slow as they are at releasing them..makes them run as close to 100% as possible. Each game has its own emulator for it.07/29/2014 - 4:47pm
Matthew Wilsonkind of hard to believe since the 3ds is atleast as powerful as the gamecube hardware wise.07/29/2014 - 4:27pm
MaskedPixelanteYes, the 3DS has enough power to run 16-bit emulators, but not at the same time it's running the 3DS systems themselves. You could run the games, but you wouldn't get save states or Miiverse.07/29/2014 - 4:04pm
InfophileRunning GBA on 3DS shouldn't be hard. The DS had flashcarts sold for it that added just enough power to emulate GBA and SNES games, so the 3DS should have more than enough natively.07/29/2014 - 3:37pm
MaskedPixelanteIt's a bunch of people whining about boycotting/pirating Trails in the Sky FC because XSEED didn't license the Japanese dub track, which consists of about 10 lines per character.07/29/2014 - 11:27am
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician