'Fraid I have to agree with you, they have a duty to their members to at least make a token show of representing them, after all, what is the point of paying yearly membership if the organisation is going to bail when you need them to back you up?

With any luck this will hit the ELSPA in the membership fees, after all, what company is going to pay for something which is, essentially, a fifth wheel?

Indeed, the problem they are going to face though is that they are NOT a publically funded organisation, their money comes from the membership fees from companies that are expecting them to live up to their own stated mission, which is to represent the freedoms and rights of these companies.

A lot of gaming companies are probably thinking to themselves right now 'Why are we paying thousands of pounds a year to an organisation that, when called upon to perform the very function we are paying for, backs out of the argument with 'don't look at me Guv!''. Why not simply save the money if it is not providing a benefit of any description?

@ Tom

I think it's wrong to say that the European climate is less friendly to violence. Europe is home to a host of different oppinions and views. Like in Germany the freedom of speach is weaker than in Scandinavia, while the racism laws are stronger in Germany, while you can get away with pretty much anything in Norway. This means that banning of games (and other media) is rather varying (the EU doesn't have that kind of power yet).

In addition, Manhunt isn't banned in the US, but as far as I understand most retailers won't stock dem due to the AO rating. The PEGI system's (European version of the ESRB) highest rating is 18+, but retailers still stock the games. Frankly, a large number of games for the next generation have recived 18+ ratings, among others Crackdown and Hitman: blood money. The only way to "increace" the raiting is to put additional warnings on the box and so far I've only seen this on GTA III, Mafia and Manhunt 1.

That last comment was at The_None btw :)

@ Sidewinder

Is it legal to sell a game in the EU that's unrated by PEGI? Or is that up to the member nations as well? I know that, as you said, Germany is particularly strict on games and the English system makes it illegal to sell unrated games.

The European climate is less friendly towards violence in media then the US, just like the US is less friendly towards sexuality in the media. I'm not pulling this out of my behind, it's just the nature of the two societies. That's not to say that all of Europe abhors anything with blood and guts just like it's unfair to say that every state in the US is afraid of a boob. I would argue, though, that if you took a random sampling of Europeans and Yanks and asked both group whether they would feel it's more acceptable to see a gunfight on TV or a sex scene, the Yanks would go for the gunfight while the Europeans would go for the sex scene.

This comes from a guy who's lived half his life in Europe and half his life in the States - I'm not just some schmuck with no experience on the matter :)

Really, at this point, people are making a fuss for nothing. The game is deemed too violent for release, most likely because it's RETARDED violence with little to no context and/or gratuitous violence. Movies like this would usually be restricted to a few "specialty" theaters that would run them for a week then just get rid of them because IT WOULDN'T SELL.

Ban or no ban, this is the kind of game which SHOULDN'T sell, just like Madden 200X and company. They're just cashing in on random bullshit they're pulling out, and hope enough controversy will also boost their sales. Just like it did with Bully, a very very very subpar game.

After playing Bully, I can say only one thing: Good thing Thompson gave free publicity for it. Only reason it didn't fly completely off the radar screen like it should have.

Well, I can certainly sympathise with an opinion like that, the real problem qwith the UK is that even the Left is Right, we have no Left Wing to our government anymore, they both have class-seperation agendas, and part of that class seperation involves dictating what the 'great unwashed' are allowed to consume and what they aren't allowed to consume.

As a country, we've lost our backbone, 400 years ago we were bleeding and dying to win back a country from a ruler who was bleeding it dry through massive taxes and an oppressive Policing system purely to propogate wars in a foreign land. Nowadays, the very machanism we put in place to ensure that it wouldn't happen again is failing and, surprise surprise, the situation is repeating itself, but I'm not sure we really have the spirit to demand the kind of change that is needed, we don't just need a new party in power, we need a new government style to be honest.

"The games industry is a creative phenomenon that produces all kinds of games across all kinds of genres that appeal to all kinds of people across the country, young and old, male and female. The important thing to know is that all games are rated according to age suitability, with over 70 per cent of games being available to all ages over three years."

Well, he certainly don't seem to think that if he won't raise a finger to defend the game for the people that this game would appeal to.

@ Tom

PEGI has nothing to do with the EU. It's an independent system that is promoted by game devs to avoid confusion by consumers. Germany uses the system along with their own national system, and the Brits use the BBFC instead of PEGI when certain contet is in the game. According to the Wikipedia article on the subject it's only Finland where the raiting has legal effect. Another important point is that getting an 18+ from PEGI isn't a kiss of death for the game as it would in the US.

As for your comments about Europe is that it sure as hell isn't a homogeneous mass. We range from die hard communists to extreme right wingers. This is important for the sex/violence angle you make. While some countries (read: the Netherlands) allow for brothels, buying sex is illegal in parts of Scandinavia, as is uncencored pornography.

@ Sidewinder

That's interesting about PEGI. So it is a European equivalent of the ESRB in that it's industry backed and on a Federal level it's optional. I think you would more readily equate the 18+ with an M rating rather then an AO rating. The spirit of the 18+ rating would probably be more in line with M.

I wasn't suggesting that Europe is a homogeneous mass - quite the contrary, I know otherwise just as I know that the USA isn't a homogeneous mass. However, with regards to media content Europe takes a generally more positive view of sexuality then the USA and the USA takes a generally more positive view of violence then Europe. As to the rest - hell, in Nevada prostitution's legal.

@ Rob

It doesn't mean that they're complete failures. There's a fundamental difference between the way the British view media content and the way Yanks view media content. The assumption many people in the US makes is that the government shouldn't have the right to ban media content from adults "for their own good." Children are another matter. Many British people are of the view that the government can, in certain cases, ban media content from adults "for their own good." As much as I like England and enjoyed living there, that is one of the reasons I would never make a permanent move back to the UK.

PEGI is probably going to give it a 18+

take at look at the comparison chart I made in the forums link,pegis 18 is a lite ranges from a M to a lite AO.

James
Well it dose not seem they can ban/block it but merely make it where you can not buy it at local shops.

If they gave it the R18 rating thats for porn you could only legally buy it at porn shops 0-o

BTW thier system makes R18 unlawful to sell to a minor, Aus and Gremany do as well.