i think that this is bulshit i have been waiting for this game forever even though i am still not old enough to buy this game i think that it should come out. this game was the only reason that i bought my wii and now it might now come out!!
i think that they need to be a little less harsh to the company they should let them make the AO raiting on it and let it be sold in stores!!
i cant believe this is happening
send me messages on your openion!!
sdea1@hotmail.com

@Black Manta

There's still a good portion of the population that believe that animated shows and movies are kids stuff, and that's mainly because 90% of them that are advertised heavily are still aimed at kids. Of course the perception has gotten better, with anime becoming more popular, but go ask the average person on the street if they'd seen an animted movie or show aimed at adults, you wouldn't get too many "yes" replies, especially out of older generations. The 20 and 30 somethings, who are more attuned to "new" ideas would have a much better response.

Games are even newer than animation, and the "for kids" stigma is quickly being challenged left and right, much quicker than animation, which is why every time a game that's geared towards adults comes out, there's an uproar. The AO rating is not the problem, the level of violence in Manhunt 2 is not the problem, the problem is the "for kids" view that's still attatched to videogames. Sony, MS, and Nintendo don't want an AO game on their systems because it WOULD hurt them, especially Nintendo, who's still only getting their feet wet with Mature rated games. An AO game on any of the three major consoles would be like Blockbuster opening up a XXX section in their stores.

The only boycott that would work would be to boycott a Mature rated Manhunt 2, and send a massive number of letters of intent to Rockstar to let them know why we're boycotting. Likewise, just petitioning MS, Sony, and Nintendo to allow an AO game on their system wouldn't do much either. We honestly need to shift the public's view on videogames, and show them it's for more than just kids and teens, which would be no easy task. The general public's view of an adult who plays videogames is still "an adult playing with kid's toys", so just pushing figures of the average gamer's age won't do anything.

Constantly testing and pushing the boundries, like Rockstar has been doing, has opened up a dialogue, and people are talking about the new "adult" side of videogames, but the view hasen't changed much. The most controversial and talked about games are seen as "juvenile" and "immature", mainly because the big draw to the games is how violent or obscene they can be. Manhunt 2 has pushed a different set of buttons, instead of being violent to be obscene, it's violent to be dark, scary, and unnerving, like real horror movies. People are talking about adult videogames as REAL adult videogames, hence the AO rating, which has it's own stigma as the "porn" rating, since it's only real publicized use so far has been for porn games.

We need more games that push and use the AO rating for something other than porn, games that force the public to view videogames as a viable means for "adults only" material.

@Devin,

Thats just it they are completely free to make the game as is with the AO rating. The consoles won't support it, and that is Sony, Nintendo, & Microsoft's free choice to do so. They can still make a PC or even a Linux version.
Most retailers are not going to carry it, again that is Wal-mart, Best Buy, etc free choice doesn't mean it can't be sold at all. It could still be sold online at Amazon.

Will sales be poor? Most likely as it will be a limited market, but then the nature of the game is going to limit the market. But then if this game were truly about Free Speech & Art then Rockstar would release the game as it is.
Since this is not the case Rockstar has now created the best marketing campaign ever for themselves. When the M rated version releases, it'll sell like GTA due to "supporters" of their rights.

It’s like boarding an airplane and as the flight attendant is telling you what to do in case of an emergency you get some jack ass screaming “IF WE CRASH IT’S BECAUSE YOU ALL WERE WILLING TO WATCH CHRISTMAS WITH THE KRANKS AS OUR INFLIGHT MOVIE. I KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT. I’M A DENTIST. EVERYONE PLEASE KEEP LOOKING AT ME. I PREDICT THAT IF WE KEEP SHOWING TIM ALLEN MOVIES THEN EVENTUALLY A PLANE WILL CRASH”.

@KTP

Thanks, you almost made me spit out my soda.

"The real sad thing is that I could probably get a gun before I could get Manhunt 2. Kind of tells you how fucked up our priorities are in this world today."

And V-Tech has shown that even if games have minimal presence they will still get blamed by people willing to yell louder than those who are presenting actual facts and realistic ways to prevent another massacre. It's like boarding an airplane and as the flight attendant is telling you what to do in case of an emergency you get some jack ass screaming "IF WE CRASH IT'S BECAUSE YOU ALL WERE WILLING TO WATCH CHRISTMAS WITH THE KRANKS AS OUR INFLIGHT MOVIE. I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'M A DENTIST. EVERYONE PLEASE KEEP LOOKING AT ME. I PREDICT THAT IF WE KEEP SHOWING TIM ALLEN MOVIES THEN EVENTUALLY A PLANE WILL CRASH".

So yeah... Tim Allen is responsible for every plane crash that has occured since he started making films. You cannot prove me wrong. Go ahead. Try. I'm sure many pilots have seen at least one Tim Allen movie and god knows what damage it did. Hell, if they haven't then I'm sure they've been to a friends house where they own a Tim Allen movie on DVD.

I'm serious. Tim Allen needs to be stopped. I don't care if we have to use this insane logic to make it happen. I'm only acting on God's will and by "God" I mean me because they're essentially the same person. Think about it. Have you ever seen God and me in the same room? No. Case solved. I win. USA! USA!

I think what annoys me is that one of the reasons that the BBFC gave for banning it was 'We know 18 certificate games get in the hands of younger children'.

So that's our fault is it? Because the government refuses to put the neccessary resources into the system to ensure that it works properly, rather than do anything about it, like confronting the government or making a statement, you decide to just 'punish' everyone over 18?

I still think it's pretty disgraceful to give it no rating whatsoever, it's like saying 'You're all morons and we are going to do your thinking for you.'

N'Gai's artice and the Sunday Showdown were by far the most thought-provoking. I agree with the Showdown's conclusion: Manhunt 2 getting an AO-rating wouldn't be a problem if the rating wasn't a death sentence. This doesn't happen with NC-17 films: Even Wal-Mart carries those. But if a game has the equivalent rating, even the manufacturers won't get behind it. Part of the problem has to do with the view, in the industry, that the farthest you should go is M, which the view (contrary to the nature of the rating) as mostly for teens, with some adults getting in on the action. No mainstream game has been designed for adults AND nobody younger. And even if it was, no retail chain would stock it because it would challenge their consumers' beliefs that video games are for kids, and hurt their sales.

It's something that needs to change if video games are to be taken seriously as a valid art form. Unfortunately, I believe that the change will largely be generational.

@Black Manta:

I read it and after reading your comment re-read it, and as I understand it, the "political support" line was modifying GP.

Umm... Dennis, not to be a Thompson or anything and point out journalistic flaws, but why did you say in regards to the USA Today piece that it was Snider who saw politcal support eroding for the industry when in fact that viewpoint was attributed to you in that article?

In any case, why would poltical support be seen as eroding when in fact this move by the ESRB has shown that the industry is capable of policing itself as you said in your Joystiq colmn last week? If anything, this should restore some of the confidence that was lost in the Hot Coffee debacle.

::headdesk::

IM really confused about the whole

"pulling testicles with pliers and sawing in to the groin"

line. It doesn't fit with the image of the game I have, your killing them brutally, not torturing them.

I'm lost at this statement:
"In the New York Times, Seth Schiesel gets a look at Manhunt 2 and finds himself agreeing with the AO rating, but writes that the game isn’t as gory as the R-rated film Saw II."

How can one agree with Adult Only, when a child can attend the viewing of Saw II, which isn't even that gory? The gore in Saw II was pretty silly, with tons of cover-ups for the actual "gore" scenes. At most, there was just some "brutal" deaths that were shown only at a side angle than what would really be depicted if such an act occured.

I just don't understand it how he can agree it is adults only, when the content is less than that of Saw II.

Let me take a line from Crackdown and mix it up:

'It's A Crackdown. A Crackdown on Videogames.'

And an unfair one at that.

The USA Today story was actually fairly balanced. The author did mention that the killings in Manhunt 2 are very brutal, but also that in the context of the game, the guy you're controlling is forced into killing people and feels regret for having killed someone despite not really having a choice. In other words, the character is killing in self-defense each time.

And I'll admit that I'm reading into this a bit, but when he mentions that Saw II is more brutal, and yet he agrees that Manhunt 2 should be rated AO, he is essentially saying that the ESRB is more responsible than the MPAA.

@Habuya

This was pointed out in a few comments on the Ars Technica piece, the R and M ratings aren't exactly a stopgap to keep anyone under 18 from watching the movie our playing the game, it's just a means to get an adult's approval for anyone under 18 to do so.

AO and NC-17 are the stopgaps. I think most of us, especially parents, can agree there's some content a 14 or 15 year old should see, and there's some content they just shouldn't. Teenagers can be a grey area, depending on how maturely they can take things, and that's where the R, M, AO, and NC-17 ratings come in. Like I said before, R and M aren't a stopgap, theyr'e just a way of saying "there's stuff in here young kids and less mature teens shouldn't see or play, but it's not extremely offensive".

Technically, my 15 year old brother could get a bum off the streets to "approve" of him going in to see an R rated film, or to stand behind him and "approve" of him buying an M rated game. Yeah, it may affect him, but there's a good chance it wouldn't warp his fragile little mind.

On the other hand, an over the top NC-17 movie or AO rated game could really mess with his head, and that's where those ratings come in. If you really, REALLY want the kid to see or play it, you have to buy it yourself and bring it home to them. It's not the end all, be all, "if you're under 18 you'll never see or play it", but it does help to keep the most offensive stuff out of the hands of the impressionable.

If anything, and I personally don't think this is the best idea, they should split the game ratings between AO and XXX, to bolster the idea that AO is NOT for porn and only porn. Personally, my thought is, if more game makers would push the boundries and create more adult oriented games that aren't porn, it would help change more than a few views on gaming.

Oh, and as for 'That’s a nice way to dodge the issue…'

What issue? Point out one issue that you raised. The only real issue here is how quickly GamePolitics can add the LaRouche website to the Spam filter to stop you people from clogging up our discussions with irrelevant trash.

@Terminator44: Wal-Mart most assuredly does not carry NC-17 movies, nor does Blockbuster. Go try to find Showgirls, which is about the only widely released movie to get the rating. They do carry unrated movies, but most of those would have been R or lower had they been submitted to the MPAA. You can claim double sttandards because they'll carry unrated movies but not video games, but that substantially changes the complaint.

Let's all break down and cry, stop playing games, lose our appetites, and piss ourselves at the mere idea that a piece of shit corrupt individual like Cheney could actually be impeached. I doubt it will happen, his bitch, G.W.B. would do everything he could to bail his ass out of trouble. Probably start another pointless war to distract us from impeaching Cheney.

Anyway, it has nothing to do with Manhunt 2 or even video games, so why the hell is it being brought up? Jim F., just shut the hell up.

Umm... They are a bunch of conspiracy nuts it looks like... I am going the other direction. I have had enough of them. Let them argue game violence and the lunar landing all they want. Remember, the industry is out to get you and they want to enslave all the world through video games in the name of the Davinci Code and Xenu...

Was that too much scarcasm?

"Wow! The VP is about to be impeached and you still play games!"


Uh, what the hell does the Vice President have to do with anything about the current topic of discussion. My god you Rouches are so brain. As I've stated in another thread: Well balanced people are able to have both hobbies(games) and also become active in serious issues(like you wanting to impeach Cheney.)

Unfortunately LaRouche has you so brainwashed that you cannot focus on anything other than his bidding.

Yes, LaRouchepac is such a reliable website, so free of spin and agenda...

That's a nice way to dodge the issue...

I forgot maybe you don't read the news, that's all right, keep playing.

Wow! The VP is about to be impeached and you still play games!

Retired U.S. General Supports Dumping Cheney
June 27, 2007--(LPAC)--At a press conference call on "GOP Defections on the War" Brigadier General John Johns, (USA, ret.) responded to a question from LPAC on impeaching Dick Cheney. Johns said, "I saw how Cheney brought in the report of the neo-cons from the Project for the New American Century, which then was adopted in NSM 2000. The war is Cheney's doing. I don't credit George Bush with putting together anything."

http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/25/bae_lar_demand...

http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/26/senate_blasts_...

@tollwutig
You say the nature of the game limits its audience, but that's not true. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are limiting the game's potential audience. If the game were released on consoles with an AO rating I guarantee you it would sell more than if only released on PC. Windows and Linux? PC gaming has the greatest barrier to entry of any format. Its ridiculous to proclaim the policy is fair on these grounds. Console manufactures are snuffing Rockstar's freedom to create for the sake of their image and you should know it if you have half a wit.

There are enough adults out there to make this game profitable, and I don't think Rockstar cares to sell its adult games to children anyway.
The problem here is the nature of the industry.

It does certainly raise the question though whether it is the ESRB being 'unfair', which is appearing to be less and less the case, or a case of the entire system after leaving the ESRB being a complete mess.

As Timmay has said, and despite Mr Thompsons' assertations to the opposite, what this has started in a honest and frank discussion in more mainstream media outlets about the nature of Video games when played by adults, and about societies 'games are for kids' attitude. It's true that there's still a long way to go, but Rockstar have, for better or for worse, put the ball out in the field now, in many ways, it is now in the hands of other developers. If Mr Thomspon is right and they have all turned away from Rockstar, which is something I actually personally doubt, then this will fade away, if they are behind the right to make games for any age bracket they desire, then they will stand and say their piece.

That doesn't mean that it wouldn't have to be toned down for Nintendo or Sony, that's a whole other issue and it's between Rockstar and the console producers, but the industry does need more awareness, the slogan 'It's not just Kids' stuff' would actually be a good one for a campaign, it's not just a question of letting parents know that ratings exist, it's important to let them know WHY they exist, otherwise you get daft questions like 'Why are they making violent games for our children'.

[...] ?????? ????????????? ???, ???  ?????? ?? 2007 ??? ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????, ??????? ?????????? ?? ????? ?????????? ? ?????. ????? ???????, ??????????, ???????? ?????? ???????????? Manhunt 2 ? ????????, ???, ????????, ????????? ? ????????. ?????? ????? ???????????? ?? Rockstar ???-?? ????????, ???-?? ????????, ? ??????? ??????? ???????? ? Adults Only ?? Mature. ???? ?????? 31 ??????? ? ??????? – ??? ?????? Manhunt 2 ? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????????. ?? ??? ? ?? ??????, ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ??? ????????? ????????, ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????????? ???????????, ??????? ?????? ? AO-??????. [...]