Xbox 360 Hardware Failures - Is It Time for Consumer, Regulatory or Political Action?

June 28, 2007 -
My Xbox 360 is currently visiting Texas.

GamePolitics, of course, is headquartered near Philadelphia, so we're not seeing much of one another these days. The reason for the long-distance relationship? My 360, which experienced the dreaded red lights of death failure only weeks after purchase, is undergoing warranty repair.

So are a lot of other gamers' 360's, apparently. Rob Watson, with whom I share game coverage duties for the Philadelphia Inquirer, suffered the same problem recently:
I try to leave my personal gaming woes out of this column, but... I got the dreaded Red Rings of Death... Microsoft continues to stick to its 3- to 5-percent defective rate for its next-gen console. My gut, how I judge all things of utmost importance, tells me that might be a tad low...

Web sites such as offer countless sad stories, including a guy who has gone through seven of them.

So what's the real number of broken 360's? I doubt it is as high as the estimates made by Their informal poll found 2,315 (61 percent) responses to the survey have complained that they've got through at least one console..

That is just crazy, and there would be class action suits all over the place if that were even remotely close to being accurate. However, I will say this: Out of the 10 or so 360 owners I complained to about my box, two also had to replace or repair one.

Although GP is not - yet - ready to declare, as 360 Gamer did, a scandal, the alarming Xbox 360 failure rate is quickly reaching a tipping point. In his excellent Law of the Game blog, attorney Mark Methenitis, who has lost two 360's to red ring failure, discusses the legal implications:
The concept of a warranty is simple enough: Someone selling a product assures the buyer that of something... Microsoft has encountered an interesting problem with the 360. The failure rate is high, but so are sales. What is a gamer to do? ...What is a consumer to do?

Unfortunately, short of a product recall (which seems unlikely given that is has not happened yet and safety is not the issue) or a class action suit, the individual consumer is likely stuck. Why? The cost of an action against Microsoft would be astronomical, and more than likely, they will just settle before any court could place any actual fault on them in order to avoid future, similar suits.

Meanwhile, the anecdotal evidence mounts. 1up has a story about a gamer who is on his 12th 360.  A U.K. repair company, MicroMart (NE) Ltd., has stopped servicing the red lights failure. A note on the company's home page reads:
Micromart has now withdrawn from offering a Repair Service for the dreaded 3 Red Lights fault. This problem is endemic on the XBox 360 console and the volume has made this repair non-viable. Other repairs to the XBox 360 are still being supported.

UPDATE:  Next-Gen has more from MicroMart, including this gem of a quote:
We were getting a phenomenal amount of these things coming through. We were seeing about 30 a week coming in with the same problem which we identified as a fundamental motherboard fault... 

We decided it wasn’t in anybody’s best interests to continue the sham that this fault is easily repaired.

Sham? Strong words from in-the-know techies. 

What is Microsoft's position? Yes, they have upped their 360 warranty coverage. But if you're selling a defective product, that's probably a given. The 1up story cites some corporate double-talk from Microsoft pitchman Peter Moore:
I can't comment on failure rates, because it's just not something - it's a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, that's something that we're focused on right now.

GP: We could go on and on. Stories from disappointed Xbox 360 owners abound on the Net. Perhaps it is time that some political pressure should be brought to bear on behalf of gamers for a change.


Re: Xbox 360 Hardware Failures - Is It Time for Consumer,

We own three XBox 360s in our house.   So far we've had seven repairs on those three XBoxes.  The last was an out of warranty repair for a faulty DVD ROM -- it would simply not read discs.   That was less than a month ago.   It cost me $99 to have the DVD replaced.   Now less than a month later this xbox gets the three red rings of death.   This is totally and completely unacceptable.   We've bought three 360s and will now have 8 repairs on them.   Two have been fixed three times and one of them twice!   EVERY Xbox serial number that we've seen in this house has been replaced, either in or out of warranty.  That is a 100% failure rate.




I was told by Microsoft that starting Monday July 9th, New hardware will be put in xbox 360s.

I am shipping mine off Today, July 16, 2007.
Please let me know if you get new hardware, new heatsink, new dvd player as I want to know if they are still sending out the same old refurbs.

I am now on the list of 360 owners who have experienced the 3 red lights. My xbox left for texas on thursday, it only took 4 days to receive they're prepaid shipping box and return label which i thaught wasn't bad. I was told that it would be 2-3 weeks for repair and return shipping from the date they receive it. In exchange for my loss of gaming time, i will be getting a free month of xbox live.... weeee! Why in the world would i want that? Most xbl players already have a gold account. Throw me a few 1000 xbl points or something. Anyway, hopefully when it does return, it's not a refurb (i was told mine would be fixed, not replaced) and it will be fixed correctly.
At this point I'm under warranty, and no money comes out of my pocket, just loss of game time. I also know 2 other people that have the same problem. And I had to laugh when i went to a local Target's gaming department and saw they're demo xbox sitting in the display case, flashing the 3 red lights. 3 to 5 percent? maybe they meant 3 out of 5 consoles.

If you, for some reason cannot get your 360 fixed by Microsoft, try these guys.

You can contact these guys, get your 360 fixed affordably.

My first system was replaced by the retailer at about 80 days after purchase. The replacement had the same problem 7 days later. I went back for an exchange, the retailer didn't have any in stock and refunded my money to purchase a new system some place else. It seems they are sick of replacing them. I buy a new system, it happens to be an Elite. Man, my woes only begin here. The DRM restraints have now rendered my DLC useless by anyone but me, and I'm only able to use it if I'm ONLINE at the time I want to use it. So, I'm no longer portable and my kids can only use gamer pics and themes if I'm signed in.

I call XBL Support to remedy the situation and after many hours of work to jump through their hoops, they are basically telling me to go away and I'm not going to be helped because they consider my Elite purchase an "upgrade" instead of a replacement for a broken system.

I'm not into piracy and I just want to use the DLC in the same manner I was entitled to on the original console used for purchase. I created a new gamertag per their instructions and I am using that one now. I cancelled the old one and was OFFERED a refund to which I accepted. That was on May 20th. I waited my 30 days and hadn't received the refund. I called back and was told I wasn't getting the points. I had to explain that I wasn't calling for the points and I was calling about the refund a duly authorized XBL Support rep promised me I would get and am legally entitled to now. They told me I wasn't getting anything back. I explained to them what the guy said and they actually took the time to look at the ticket at that point, realized he actually did attempt a refund, and then promised to call me back with an update. That was on June 20th. Here it is, July 11th, and so far I'm waiting on a reply. I've also been told, at the very least, I'll get a free month of XBL. A free month??? Are you kidding me? Are you frickin' joking? Like that's going to compensate me for the hassle of having to deal with being hung up on by an XBL supervisor, the hours I've spent dealing with people that will ask me a question and then break me off before I finishing answering it, or the original issue to begin with. I'm at a financial loss for my troubles and will be out additional funds to re-purchase the exact same content I'm entitled to use anyway.

It's a terrible policy and business model and, quite frankly, I'm shocked that Microsoft treats customers in this manner.

I'm a 38 year old Network Security professional and I'm being treated like a kid who's trying to get one over on Microsoft.

Yeah, my experience with XBL Support has been more than a hassle and being discriminated against is not something I take lightly.

-Sixty GT: SixTGunR Says:
July 10th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
New Class Action Lawsuite Filed Against Microsoft for the xbox 360 scratchign disks.

Download the actual Lawsuit from my site.

Class Action Suit charging 360 scratches disks.


Even after My very first xbox 360 Launch console crashed, 3 RED LIGHTS OF DEATH,

Even after I started this website right away when I found out Microsoft was selling defective game consoles and trying to charge us to fix them way back in early 2006,

Even after I have received 3 defective REFURBS from the INEPT REFURB CENTER IN MC ALLEN TEXAS,

Even after I have been all over the internet, all over the Better Business Bureau, the Consumer Protection Agency, the Federal Trade Commission and tons of News Groups, Forums and

Even After spending COUNTLESS HOURS ON THE TELEPHONE WITH TECHNICAL SUPPORT AT MIDCROSOFT explaining about all the pieces of crapy they keep sending me,

Even after Microsoft changes the warranty for the xbox 360 fron 90 days to 1 year,


Even after all the hell I have been through with this $400.00 Microsoft Game console,


I am truly amazed at how LOW Microsoft can go.

They care so little about their consumers that they do not even care enough to make sure a customer who has already had 3 or 4 defective xbox 360s would atleast get 1, brand new working xbox 360 with the latest updates in hardware.

Yeah, right, Imagine that. Microsoft actually caring about their customers.

Let me ask you a question:

If you Say, I will go and fix someone's xbox 360, and do not.


You Actually do, fix someone's xbox 360, and do not talk about it.

Which is better?

Microsoft talks a lot about Most having a wonderful experience, and they talk a lot about how the satisfaction of the customer is priority 1, but the records show they don't give a flying shi^ about those of us who have spent money on ther test box, the xbox 360.

Signed... Owner of

And, the person who just now received another
July 7, 2007

Has your XBOX 360 frozen up while playing a game? Has it scratched game disks? Has it displayed multiple error messages after updates?

Don’t waste your time with Microsoft customer service. They will keep you on hold for an hour or more and simply read scripted responses to you.

File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Use this link and follow the instructions. Microsoft headquarters is located in the State of Washington.

The BBB will contact them and work on your behalf to resolve the issue. If a business receives enough formal complaints, it sends a strong message to lawmakers.

Stand up for yourself and hold Microsoft accountable for their deceptive business practices. There is no excuse for producing such a large number of defective XBOX 360 units.

Hi. To everyone who said that they have had their 360 working for over 12 months, congratulations! My own 360 gave me the 3 red lights on a few occasions before, and removing the hard drive seemed to work fine on those occasions, no problem.

Today however, after 18 months of working quite well, the 3 red lights appears to be terminal! None of the suggested ideas work for me, so I dunno what to do! I really don't wanna waste money getting it "fixed" and have it break again later in its life. If the problem really is endemic then it does show that M$ really rushed it out to get a head start on the ol' PS3. I sorta wish i'd waited for PS3, but I really enjoyed Oblivion and still play (well, played) it nearly a year after i bought it :)

Ah well, it was one of the first batch, maybe they will fix it for free :D

I've only owned my 360 for 5 months, about six weeks ago i got disc read error and my disc drive making a strange noise. I had to send the console in for repairs, its been three weeks. I'm extremely disappointed with microsoft repair service and the overall console.

I got the red lights of death two days ago. I saw the article this morning and called tonight. Microsoft is send me a box for shipping and making the repairs free of charge. It sucks I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks to get it back, but at least I don't have to pay anything, not even shipping.

I commend microsoft for taking responsibility. I wouldn't trade my xbox for anything.

My 360 had it's first and only fatal failure (the 3 red lights) about a month ago. The console is 15 months old and I was told it would be $139.90 to repair it. Today I read an article online that Microsoft would extend the warranty to 3 years due to the excessive failure rates, so I called 1-800-4MY-XBOX and was told that they hadn't received a memo instructing them about this. So, I guess I'm stuck waiting for a few more days before Microsoft gets their act together. Of course, this will require me being on hold for another 20 minutes so the call center in India can take my call...

This problem is everywhere, even in Québec. They could even get troubles by the "cour des petites créances" (Court of small credits) because one costumer reported 3 consoles broken in 14 months (which is, even in the court's lawyers opinion, quite abnormal).

There's a link of the story as well as a link to the video (for those who speak french).

If you want, I can give you a translation.

Very good website you got.

Polls can only be taken with a grain of salt. The people who are online and searching for information about broken 360's are the ones doing these polls the most. People with working 360's are happy and spend their time gaming and not filling out polls and surveys on console performance.

I know MS isn't the greatest company in the world, I know they can be the great software (or console) devil, but how many companies can anyone point out that rarely have a software or hardware problem? Sony, Nintendo, Atari, Sega, SNK, every console maker has had a hardware issues at one point or another, weather it be a flawed design or just bad components.

I'm not here to excuse MS for the problems with the 360, it's more than apparent that it's greater than an "isolated issue", but if you're going to do something, then do something, start a class action suit, take MS to the Better Business Bureau, whatever you want, but don't just sit there and bash MS because they're not jumping to fix your problem either. If you're just posting to bash MS and say you won't buy they're product because of the situation, then you're not helping to fix anything.

Their OS are fine.... after about 50 updates.

I don't want to fan the flames here - but my decision to never buy anything with microsoft on it come from my experiences working with MS office (at the office). MS programs constantly freeze or shut down, their OS does the same.

Why on earth would I want to buy a console made by these chumps?

I worked at a software company - all they do is work to quarter end. Rush to get things out to meet targets and to hell with the returns - that's for another department in the next quarter.... sell, sell, sell... rush rush rush.

I am not saying Sony is the be all and end all, but MS is one vendor I will always avoid.

I personally had one 360 suffer from the dreaded three-ring-of-death. Microsoft was prompt on the repairs (actually shipping me a new unit and transferring all warranties over to the new serial number). I modified my entertainment center enclosure which houses the 360 by installing a 120mm fan in the back that can be turned on with a flip of a switch. This 2nd 360 has had no issues since then. In fact the internal fans in the unit barely ever turn on now. It's sad that I had to compensate for a lack of thermal dynamic design on Microsoft's part. They should have just accepted that they needed a bigger form factor for the unit in order to disperse the heat from the gpu/cpu, or at least postponed production of the units till they were able to go to the 65nm processors.

It indicates a general hardware failure. It has the same function as beep codes on your computer mother board.

What exactly are the red lights for? Are they JUST an indicator of the console breaking? If so, I find it pretty sad that Microsoft's X-Box is so poorly put together that they actually needed to put something in their console that says "Sorry, your console's knackered."

Well, Skimming through the comments in one of the articles, it looks like Mircosoft Added even more to their warrenty. In addition to the one year you get for free, you can also get an extended warrenty for what seems to be about 2 years... ofcourse it's probbaly gonna cost some cash to sign up for it; it's probably a lot like Apple's Apple care plan

Just thought i throw that out their for those who are gonna stand by the Xbox360... considering the failures and all, it might be a good investment... unlike the UK, i don't think most countries have laws about equitment failing right after warrenty expires.... me... i'm gonna stick with my launch day PS2 which has yet to fail me, for atleast a few more months or so, until next-gen get some better games and has a price drop or two =P

I find it very patronising how some people come on here and tell me I've abused my 360 and assume that people who have hada lot of 360's are bad owners.

My console is not heavily used, it sits where its got enough ventilation, and its currently suffered a massive three red light hardware failure.

This is a fault with the 360. This is a re-occuring defect because so many people have the same problem. It must be assumed that all 360's are made in exactly the same way, Therfore its reasonable to assume that if your 360 has not frozen yet that it probably will. You are in denial, its understandable, but there was absolutely no reason for my 360 to break. I'd been playing it for ten minutes that day.

M$ are not a company that you can trust to be honest when announcing defect rates. Everything they do or say, their only concern is the profit margin.

It's a shame because the 360 is a good games console. I'm ringing M$ later to try and demand a free repair 3 months after my warrenty expired.

If not I will try and take it to the store where i bought it because in the UK, there are laws which state that electrical products should still not fail just after their warranty has expired and that is down to the retailer.

Oh by the way, both of my brothers have 360's and both have been replaced. They are VERY casual gamers and probably average about 1-2hrs a week! Still, Kaput systems. Yeah, but let's blame the gamer instead of the garbage company ripping people off!

Sorry folks, but the intercoolers don't do anything for prolonging the life of the system. I used to sit in forums arguing with people that it wasn't MS fault, it was theirs! "You don't go out and buy a high end machine and shove it in a tight space and let it overheat!" I would type. Until...

I purchased a launch day 360 and was pretty excited about it. Sure, after a few weeks it began to freeze here and there. Nothing really to get nervous about, it could be the game or IF it was the system perhaps a firmware update would stop the freezes right? A couple more weeks went by and a few more symptoms started popping up. The freezes would now be accompanied by 2bit (think atari 2600) noises, my system would display artifacts on start up that would go away, and/or during gameplay the framerate would start to drop until it crawled to a nice little freeze. The icing on the cake is the red ring error and a broken 360 that might run for 2min at a time before locking up and displaying some artifacts (horizontal/vertical white dotted lines or the very hip and cool checkered board thing). Seriously, checkered board artifacts is SOOO in this Spring.

"Not a big deal" I thought, "that's the risk you take with getting launch day hardware." I got my new 360 (or should I say scratched up refurbished unit) and spent extra money on the Pelican fan stand. I even put the 360 console across the room away from my LCD tv which also runs hot. Sure enough, 1.5mos later I experienced some freezing issues. I really began to get concerned when a few weeks later after that I started to get freezing/artifacts/2bit noises/and red ring of death. I sent it in for a replacement.

Alright, now I received my 3rd 360 console and I went out and purchased a Nyko Intercooler and used it with the Pelican fanstand. If you are going to do this you better have some free time and a Dremmel tool because the Pelican fan stand will need to be modified. While I was at it I decided to also put a custom fan into the Pelican stand as well, now I had the double threat going. "No fail this time buddy!" However, the exact same fate for #3 about 2mos later. I sent that bad boy in as well.

"OKAY, this is getting a little ridiculous" I thought. I came up with a plan. I went out and purchased some high performance PC fans (3) and stuck them on my new horizontal 360, two blowing air into the system via bottom and topside and one helping to pull air out the exhaust in the back. That's right, my living room sounded like I was testing prototype jet engines! Additionally, I stuck the 360 next to the window and living room fan FAR away from the television. Guess what happened 4mos later? Yup, red rings baby. Except this time I was about 10 days out of my 1yr MS warranty. Let's forget the fact that I had probably spent about a total of 2-3 months just shipping and receiving dead consoles to and from MS. MS then told me it was $140 to fix it (they would not tell me if I would get my same console back, so most likely I would be paying for another broken/scratched up refurbished unit) and I could keep the warranty going FOR ONLY $25 a year! I thought to myself, after all the crap I have gone through and the money I have pumped into MS (I own about 30games, Live, 12 arcade games, 4 controllers, marketplace crap blah blah blah) they are going to stick it to me?! On top of that I don't trust the system anymore.

I mean looking back, when have you ever heard about gamers having to be SOOOO careful around a piece of hardware, EVEN OUTSIDE OF GAMING CONSOLES?!!! I just said screw it and sold the piece of junk off. Maybe someday I will get another one, I have been stoked about Mass Effect for sometime, but if Sony cuts the price of the PS3 and comes out with some decent titles this holiday season I think I will be getting a PS3. And yes, I got a Wii so my wife and I could play some games but unfortunately there aren't any games out for the Wii either. This next gen gaming thing is just soo freakin' awesome! Best Gen Ever!!

Very true GoodRobotUs

What I'm a fan of is a reliable affordable console with plenty of games that I'm interested in with HD graphics capabilities(sorry wii). I don't mean to hate on the Wii, I'll eventually buy it. But first I think I want an Atari 2600, a commodore 64, controllers for my NES and mario 1,2,3 (mine are broke), to find my sega genesis/sega cd stuff, and depending on what the future holds, a 360 or ps3. Oh yea to also find my freakin dreamcast games and controllers. I just can't think of where i put them it was such a long time ago. Im thinking its time to rebuild my collection. Next gen can wait.

So far its still pretty close between a ps3 and 360. I mean 360 still only has only a few games I have interest in so the lack of ps3 games isn't too big of a deal for me. What I am worried about is durability, price and future games. I'm kinda on the fence.

I'm on my 3rd X-Box 360 as of right now. I took the first two over my friend's house a lot, so I figured that might have been the problem. I packaged them up good so they did not get banged around on the trip over, yet they still failed. Both systems were covered on my warranty, so there was no problems in returning them to EB Games for a brand new one, no questions asked. Every time I play my 360 however, I get nervous. I wonder if THIS will be the exact moment that it crashes. My warranty is up at the end of August, so if it fails after that, I can't afford to have it fixed. I shouldn't have to in all actuality. I was unaware of the alarming numbers of just how many other people were experiencing the exact same thing that I've been going through for almost a year now. I think Microsoft should just send a new unit that they actually took the time to check for errors and when it's bug free, ship it to consumer, along with a bat. This way, we can take the defective 360 out into a field and pull an "Office Space with the fax machine" on it.

Just thinking, it'd be kind of silly for PS3 fans to pretend post that their XBox360 went wrong, at least from Sony's point of view, the longer Microsoft deny, the more customers they will lose, the more people that post about problems, the more pressure on Microsoft to at least look at the problem without blinkers on.

It if kinda funny. I got the Red Ring of Death only once on my console, and that was for about five second the first time I turned it on. I just looked at it with rage and hate of the 1000 hells and it must have decided that it's life expectancy is alot higher when it is working because after 5 seconds of red ring it decided to restart and start working all on it's own.

I have had it since March and the little trooper has been chugging along like it is supposed to. I will say it is being a good little machine.

Yea, I agree with Silver_Derstin. Thats way to long to keep repairing the same systems over and over again.

M$ has to own up to this problem and fix it ASAP in my opinion.

Does this apply to all 360s or just those manufactured before November of 2006? There were some hardware revisions then.

"I think they are going to wait until their next system to solve that issue."

You do realize the next generation of consoles will probably come out in 7 to 8 years? That's an awfully long time, dealing with complaints of customers...

I think my 360 froze once, but that was probably when I was playing an XBox game. But did not break. Honestly, its far too late in the game to come out with a whole new system thats like the 360 but better. They made the Elite to go along with the bigger hard drive gimmick.

Its also pretty hard to set up a whole new system. I think they are going to wait until their next system to solve that issue. Nintendo's Wii-Mote chucking problem was waaaaaaaay too simple to solve.

My Wii froze when I was playing RE4 Wii Edition...should I go get taht repaired too? =P

I still want a 360, I just want one that I feel confident in purchasing.

Wanted to buy a 360 at the end of the summer, but this is making me wary. Guess I'll have to get a PS3.

I went through 5. I got rid of it. Not worth the headaches. Would you buy the same car again if you know it had problems? MS isnt going to fix the problem, all they want is a fat bankroll.

I picked up the ps3 and the build quality is absolutely stunning. Quiet as a mouse and rock solid, no freezes, disc scratching, overheating, etc..

Id be down with that Zippy, but I don't think it will happen.

the 30% + fail rate rings true,the if MS goes with a 199 console with the new CPU and GPU and thats a premium console mind you,do this Xmas of this year and I can forgive MS.

But MS being MS there is not "problem" the fail rate is a minuim "5%"........., you'd think dealing with the problem early and quickly would have been better/faster/cheaper for everyone...


Are you ignoring the fact that MicroMart? Micromart is not just a PS fanboy trolling, they are an actual company that fixes M$'s defective product. They are in-the-know when it comes to the the faults the product has and they say
" We were getting a phenomenal amount of these things coming through. We were seeing about 30 a week coming in with the same problem which we identified as a fundamental motherboard fault…

We decided it wasn’t in anybody’s best interests to continue the sham that this fault is easily repaired."

Yes this is just one company but they are refusing to fix any 360's with that problem because it is too much for them to handle. And they are also calling it a sham meaning its pointless to fix because its going to just screw up again. So yea sure you can claim that everyone complaining is just a PS fan, and im sure some are, but the fact is MicroMart has no reason to lie about it. They are making money fixing these defective products and the demand is too high for them to keep up with so they are trying to concentrate on what they can handle.

Pictures wouldn't be hard proof, hard proof lies in the hands of M$. They are refusing to give us updates on the actual number of systems that have repaired. That number, or at least percentage, is definately something they could handle. You must understand that to get a console repaired you must give them a serial number so they must be recording it somehow. They are withholding this information from us so it must not be good news. Sure they are saying 3-5 percent, and they are claiming its a moving number. Its obvious they are trying to fix it, but we should the actual numbers and have access to the hard proof that they hold.

Why are they keeping us in the dark? Until they provide us with a good reason we have to assume the obvious, that they are worried about the public reaction.

The one thing I want to see is evidence of people returning it so many times. Without pictures or hard proof, these anecdotes remind me of SWG and people cancelling 6-7 accounts at a time. Who is to say some PS fanboys or just good natured trolls want

Not a def for MS, but I want more info and unbiased investigation.

I personally went through three systems in one year. Since I got the last system I have been afraid to play it for fear it will break down. It doesn't make the system very useful. Each time my system crashed I was playing a different game. I was always VERY careful about not playing more then a couple of hours so that it wouldn't over heat and I made sure it was in a ventilated area with my home AC running when I played games on that system. I went through both my standard warranty and a couple of extended purchase warranties that I had to re-purchase each time they were used. It's not a solid system.

Glad to see this posted, as it is one more thing pressuring Microsoft to change their ways. For the record I too have a 360 being repaired in Texas right now.

Not to mention that the 360's disc drive is a piece of trash.

they should sue microsoft under section 14(satisfactory quality) of sales of goods act 1979

Yeah, I thought it would be heat expansion related, the problem is that in order to be fast, components need to be close together, in order to be cool, they need to be far apart. Get the ratios wrong and either performance or reliability will suffer.

There is an article that explain the systemic issue with the Xbox 360. The problem is that the cooling design of the 360 doesn’t hold up. The excess amount of heat that remain within the GPU can cause the entire mainboard to flex - a phenomenon largely caused by the X-shaped brackets that hold the heatsinks on under the mainboard. They hold the heatsinks down to the chips with a tension fit that presses up directly underneath those chips. So when the system gets too hot, the combination of loosened solder with a mainboard that flexes from heat causes the GPU or CPU to actually break its connection from the board - resulting in the 3 red lights and secondary error code 0102 (the “unknown hardware error” code).

I really do hope someone steps up to defend gamers against M$. Its really sad when this many people are experiencing a product of such poor quality.

So who is losing more money, Sony or M$?

On one side we have a system that is really expensive to make and is sold for less to try to get people to buy it. And its still really expensive so no one is buying it, or making games for it.

On the other side we have a system that isn't losing as much money off their console but now they are having to spend loads of money repairing them. Repairing so many that companies are beginning to turn down consoles because the demand is too high. I'd like to know the real numbers on how many systems total have needed to be repaired or replaced.

I bet good ol' Nintendo is sitting back with a grin on their face. Sure their system's graphics arn't amazing and the games don't look as pretty and some of the art in games(wario ware) make feel extremely proud of what I can acomplish in 2 hours.


I'd like to know that as well. Its a nice feature for PC gamers, or anyone that pushes their PC's limitations. It would be worth it in the long run for your system to shut down once it reaches a certain temperature. Sure you might lose your place in your game... but would you rather replay the game or have to get your system repaired or replaced? I know right now I'm pretty happy I decided to get a computer and not a 360. Computers are very reliable if it has proper cooling.


Software is different from hardware. You might beable to get away with releasing software that is full of bugs but when you do it with hardware its going to bite you in the ass.


Was on my 3rd 360, going on 4th when I decided the best way to solve the problem was get a PS3.

At any rate, while consumers taking legal action or the government intervening may prove a worthwhile solution, I know of a way that will get an IMMEDIATE response from M$ and kick them into gear.

It's all up to Sony. Well, Nintendo could do it, too. But I don't think they would given their reputation.

PLAY DIRTY, SONY. At this year's E3, call out M$ for their hardware failures. Poke fun at them, make jokes, talk all kinds of trash. Shoot, if you were smart, you'd start contacting the retail companies to see if you could gather some statistics of your own concerning failure rates and such.

Poll consumers, do some guerilla research, and when E3 rolls around, just after M$ touts Halo 3 as its shining beacon that everyone should follow, drop some statistical bombs on the gaming public. Forget about Killzone 2, MGS4, FF13, a new controller, or whatever else you have planned. Playing dirty and targeting M$ hardware failures will gain you more ground even if you promised a new feature on the PS3 that would wipe your arse for you.

I can think of nothing better for putting an end to this lingering issue, and possibly regain some of that lost ground. If nothing else, that would certainly light a fire under M$'s ass and get them to take some kind of action.


My friend got his at launch, well, actually a little before launch since he won his in a contest from Mountain Dew or something. But, anyway, he's still got his 360 from before launch and it hasn't broken down on him once, he's got to be pretty damn lucky if all these numbers are true.

Hopefully, I am that lucky as well, I just got my 360 this month.

The one that has me concerned is the MicroMart statement, it's one thing to think that maybe lots of people are nipping round the Internet posting testimonials, it's another to have a company stop a service because the demand for it is flooding them.

It certainly sounds like some kind of power/heat problem, doesn't the 360 have any kind of emergency temperature shut-down or anything? (I don't own any consoles, so I'm completely in the dark here)

I cannot go and view all the relevant sites at work, (all are blocked.) My cousin just got his 360, I have never owned one. What is the main issue with it? is it just over heating? or is there more? I want to inform my cousin so he can take precautions.
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MattsworknameOh btw, info, are you still refering to that "gamers are dead" argument? Cause sargon of akkad just did a 3 video series that proves it's based on bullshit07/31/2015 - 6:46am
MattsworknameInfo: thats what you call clickbaiting to the highest level07/31/2015 - 5:43am
InfophileAnd here's why you never judge an article by its title: "Microsoft Gives All Windows 10 Users the Finger" - (I'm looking at you, people still mad about "Gamers are Dead")07/31/2015 - 5:09am
Matthew Wilson not game related, but this is a good interview.07/30/2015 - 8:52pm
Goth_SkunkFinally, I never misspelled Chipman's name. So, feel free to try your luck again, but pick an opponent you can beat.07/30/2015 - 8:32pm
Goth_Skunk@Technogeek: I paid for the experience of the seat, and upon completion of the movie determined that the extra for the seat wasn't worth it. Additionally, your opinion is not law. You thinking the movie is crap does not make it so.07/30/2015 - 8:31pm
Craig R.1st I heard of Pixels was seeing trailer in theater. Was interested until Sandler appeared, then it became an instant 'Nope'.07/30/2015 - 4:52pm
james_fudgesick burns are not always allowed in the shoutbox.07/30/2015 - 4:28pm
MechaCrashIt's especially funny because I said "you'd have to be a moron to enjoy it," and Goth boasted about enjoying it, as if that does anything to change my opinion of the movie or of him.07/30/2015 - 4:19pm
TechnogeekMatthew: Back when that law was first implemented, I kept trying to come up with a scenario where it would be anything other than an unmitigatedd sisaster. Nothing ever came to mind.07/30/2015 - 4:16pm
Matthew Wilson no duh Sherlock!07/30/2015 - 4:10pm
TechnogeekI can't even make a joke about that. It's like poking fun at Donald Trump's hair.07/30/2015 - 4:01pm
TechnogeekSo you willingly paid more money than you needed to in order to watch a crappy Adam Sandler movie (but I repeat myself), just to spite a reviewer that you can't even spell the name of properly.07/30/2015 - 4:01pm
Goth_SkunkMy one regret was paying extra for a DVX seat, which jostles and vibrates in relation to the action on screen. What a waste of money.07/30/2015 - 3:55pm
Goth_SkunkYes, I did watch Pixels just to spite Chipman. I was originally going to see Minions, but moved it down the list. AND I ENJOYED IT. So nuts to you, MechaCrash.07/30/2015 - 3:44pm
Matthew Wilson@phx works fine for me, but I did it the long way. I upgraded, made a recovery drive, than did a full install.07/30/2015 - 3:24pm
Andrew EisenReally liking Child of Light so far (I play on console so UPlay isn't a concern). Gorgeous aesthetic with a fun presentation and battle system. So far, so good!07/30/2015 - 1:36pm
PHX CorpWell I'm offically on Windows 10 Laptop Wise(I had to download the Windows 10 Media tool from Microsoft to get it now rather than waiting for the update through windows update)07/30/2015 - 12:16pm
ZippyDSMleeI dunno I'd go to see it, seems liek dumb fun, better than half assed serious stuff that has so many holes large enough to drive mac trucks through(coughinterstellercouch).07/30/2015 - 10:58am
Andrew EisenGoth - Wait, you went to see Pixels just to spite Chipman?07/30/2015 - 10:49am

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