Manhunt 2 Ban Sparks Anti-censorship Petition on British Prime Minister's Website

Manhunt 2 Ban Sparks Anti-censorship Petition on British Prime Minister's Website

July 1, 2007
Gamers in the U.K. are apparently exercising their right to petition the government regarding the recent banning of Manhunt 2.

A user-created petition has surfaced on 10 Downing Street, the website of new British Prime Minister Gordon Brown (left). The petition was submitted by one Bradley Smith, and proclaims:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Restrict the powers of the BBFC with regard to the banning of videogames.

The BBFC have recently refused to rate the videogame "Manhunt 2". As such, adults in this country will never be allowed to play this game. Adults should be allowed to make their own decisions with regard to what videogames they want to play. We all understand that this game is extremely violent and unsuitable for children. As such an 18 rating should have been applied.

As we write this, 811 people have signed. The petition, open to U.K. citizens only, will remain available until August 25th.
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Comments

It's just a shame no one is allowed to play AO games (Adult Only Games).
It's like a spanking all over again. Why is there a AO rating possible if I can't buy it?
I can buy booze, smokes, and porn, but not a video game. That's weak.
I can't sign it either... but I can spread the word.
"I respect the point the petitioners want to get across, but Nintendo and Sony still won’t let the game come out in its present state."

That is a completely separate issue. It doesn't matter that the console firms will not allow it, the problem is that even if they did allow it, it'd still be banned.

Being English, i'm off to sign it myself now, makes a nice change being able to actually do something, as most of game politics seems to be US only recently.
Double post:

In addition, although I think that Manhunt 2 shouldn't be released into Wii. The BBFC are in the wrong too. The British Minsters themselves, should also think that is it right to just ban the game because of it's violent content? I don't think so, if the game is really being banned, then they can expect unhappy citizens and their unhappiness will cause them not to obey the government, saying that it's not fair. Or in the worst case scenario, expect rebellion and frequent riots outside their own royal building.

That will also make Queen Elizabeth sad too.
Then Manhunt 2 should be released on PC or Playstation 3 instead! After all, I do agree with all of you that Nintendo Wii is intended for children (although there is one horror game like Resident Evil 4 is being released into Wii)

Now I am coming to a conclusion that AO rating games shouldn't be released into Wii, let alone other Nintendo consoles.
I signed it, but I can't help feel like it's a missed opportunity.

If they'd tried to get an investigation/review of the BBFC's powers and remit, and maybe some updates to the Video Recordings Act then it might have made a difference, but by limiting the complaint to just Manhunt 2, it comes across as just a bunch of kids complaining that they can't play Nintendo.
I'm going to sign it. Because I feel that this is good for the gaming community. And for the sake of keeping the Video Game Industry up and running, I will, if it's the last thing I do.
The internet... Bringing American values to the British legal system since 1991!
Hmm... I've never lived there, but my parents are both English and I have a UK passport proclaiming my British citizenship. I think I'll sign as an expatriate.
@Zippy

I fail to see how Germany is any better in regards to ratings or games in general. Not only are "refused classifications" more vauge than the U.K.'s, but they are much more liberally applied. While Britain has only done it to Manhunt 2 (and tried with Carmeggedon), Germany has done it to Dead Rising, Gears of War, and Crackdown, just to name a few. They are still legal to sell in stores, but only if they are not advertised, not reviewed, and not shown in the stores at all. Basically, any attempt that can be made to keep consumers from being informed.

And that's not even mentioning their tendency to replace all the characters in certain games (Contra, Half-Life) with robots.

Maybe there is no actual banning, but the German government clearly has a great deal of control over game content instead of letting consumers decide for themselves. That's what I hate.
beemoh
*headdesk+HEIL to the censor masters*
*sigh*
this is the kind of thing thats skipped when a gov and its rating system acts maturely.

Terminator44
it seems Germany has the better of ideas,a game thats not rated is not baned but not sold normally either but a adult is not stopped either, of coarse because tis a gray law,different regions within Germany can "ban" it.
Ah Crap. Minute I take up residence in another country an opportunity to actually get something done rises in my place.

Wait... I guess I'm technically still a UK citizen. Hrm...
Yes, clearly 18+ serves as the equivalent of "heavy" M, while picking up the scant duties of an AO rating, while 15+ is T and "light" M (Serious Sam, for instance, if it was rated by the BBFC). So I don't see why Nintendo or at least Sony would abandon it now.

Really, I just want to see adults able buy the game SOMEWHERE without getting arrested.
18 is just another rating in the UK, without any of the connotations associated with an AO.

Some 18s: Carmageddon; Dead Rising; Doom 3; Fear; God of War II; GTA series; Silent Hill 4.
Notable comparisons: Bully - 15; Burnout Revenge - U (lol); Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy - 15; Resident Evil 4 (inc. Wii version) - 15; Silent Hill 1-3 - 15.
yeah, the policy is only for the ESRB, according the the wikipedia article:

"Manhunt 2 would have been released uncut in Scandinavia with an 18+ PEGI certificate if not for Take-Two's suspension.[12][13]"

and probably will be eventually... at some point..
Zippy:

With regards to imports, I can import it, but I must physically bring the copy over myself, and I can only bring one (at a time) as I need to justify that it's for personal use, and not to distribute.

Even then I'm not guaranteed it, since Customs can just take it off me on the way in, regardless.

/b
Although, I will add as a disclaimer, that a lot of games that get rated 'M' in the US get rated 18 in the UK, It's really a question of the 'closest number'.
@Cyberskull:

Actually, if Manhunt 2 were given an 18 Certificate, it WOULD be entitled for release in the UK. That's the odd thing, Nintendo and Sony don't support AO games, but DO support 18 certificate, which are, more or less, a parallel. We have R18 for sexually explicit only content, which is treated much as AO is over there.
monte'
probably not since the world census is fry the witch, it would be interesting to see a game like DOAXX have topless models and be AO'd in the US yet M15 in Euro land.

Would the outcry kill the game or have it not released in the US..I dunno.
@Radio Guy
an interesting point you bring up... Nintendo and Sony say they will not have an AO rated game on their system... however, i don't recall them having a similar policy for any of the BBFC ratings; Considering i think the BBFC gave the first Manhunt their worst rating, than that would mean that if they were to rate manhunt 2 it would get their worst rating which nintendo and Sony have no policy against. Question is, would this mean that Nintnedo and Sony would release the game as is in the UK, while still refusing to release it here in the states, or would they still refuse to release it in the UK based on the AO rating it got the USA's ratings system? It kind of puts them in a bad position...
beemoh
:P
Do they ban the import too?

Its rather stupid tho a simple blacklist setup would fix this nightmare , manhunt 2 could be a "blacklisted" item at worst meaning it can not be sold openly or displayed in public but if you are a adult you can ask for it and can get it from "behind the counter".

Adults censoring adults is ridiculous 0-o
Zippy: AFAIK, At All. It is, however, highly complicated.

/b
Matthew
Can not be sell it openly, or at all?
Germany has it where you can not openly sale it but back rooms and behind the counter you can.

They need to relook at their system manhunt 2 is a 18+ level game,GOW either of them could pass for M15.
they have a normal 18 rating which could apply to NC17 type games/films they really should grow up and paste that on games, anyone know if they do a unrated/non rated DVD thing similar to here in the states?
We do have an 18 rating and it's applied left, right, and centre. As has been mentioned before, the last game to be refused a rating was Carmageddon, which was subsequently toned down and re-rated.

We do not have an unrated sticker for precisely the reason the ratings exist; unrated games/films cannot be sold.
Right On Brits.
Right On.
Not being British, you shouldn't even if you could. And I agree with Zerodash above; the BBFC could volunteer to distribute a free copy of the game to everyone under the age of three and it still wouldn't allow the game to be released.
@Zerodash

In the UK ESRB ratings wont apply so technicaly it wont be an AO game.
I respect the point the petitioners want to get across, but Nintendo and Sony still won't let the game come out in its present state.
Not being British, I can't sign it.
Approaching the 2500 mark now. I just added my name.

Not that I'll ever play the game; but i very much disagree with it being banned.
I'd like to wish them luck with the petition but we all know the government is crooked so it won't do any good, we just don't have any rights these days.
http://www.petitiononline.com/4manhunt/petition.html

Just an update on my own petition advertised in other story comments and above. It is at 4198 signatures at the moment. Of course it will do nothing to alter the console companies' minds for reasons Hal and others have stated quite well. There is a stigma that affects business and for now it won't be tackled despite what some consumers want. The line is always pushed but you can't be seen stepping too close to going over it, which is why scapegoats are great to have around.

I want to thank those who signed it, especially those who signed it only once. I have found a lot of telling data in blog comments elsewhere about the petition. Those who made bogus comments or signed it many times proved the weakness of the online petition, especially in seriousness. I learned a lot about the many weaknesses of online petitions, as well as the strength of the Internet in getting a message out via informal social networks. Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony and Rockstar all gave me blanket email replies carefully worded. I have tracked the url's progress around the world, via blogs (including Wired), and other websites I never knew existed. The intention now is to analyze the data given in those signatures and then combine its message with some of the many issues brought up on blogs such as these. Once that is done I will make any document available via url for those who signed, and to those the petition addresses.
@Clyde Wyman

Manhunt2 was also supposed to be released for PS2 and the PSP, not just the wii. The wii and other nintendo consoles were never meant to be only "intended for children"; it's an image that got stuck on nintendo because they release a lot of family friendly first-party games; an image of which, in addition to holding back on graphics, has pushed away many consumders and developers who want mature rated stuff. Nintendo however did not want this image and wants to cater to ALL audiences, young and old and of every gaming genre(including mature horror). This is the reason why they went to Rockstar and asked them to make Manhunt2 for the Wii, so that they can try to reach to an another audience.
Pretty much a stupid idea from stupid rating authorities. i think its because they feel power mad that they want to ban it. because they can. Hostel (despite to me being a crap film for gore) wasnt banned. Land of the dead (i think it was. i know it was a zombie movie though) was banned a long time ago and after a lot of rethinking it was unbanned. This is what will probably happen with manhunt 2. But by then everyone will have moved on. They need to liven up and stop trying to spoil adults and 18 year olds fun and realise that the world we have been brought into is filled with violence and that we need a output to relieve our violent natures. and manhunt 2 would be the output.
I am currently writing my views on this point to BBFC and Sony about this. if you think this is a good idea then do it too. also tell sony about it leading to piracy due to everyone getting a chip/boot disc to download and play the game. that'll get them to allow it if enough say that :D
I'm not british but I'm married to one and we spend long periods in Britain.
Plus, most of my games habe been purchased in Britain.
This Censorhip thing shows that the BBFC don't take us, adults, seriously and unable to make our own decisions.
Democracy is when people have the right to choose. The other would be dictatorship, and this is what these folks are doing.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/07/09 at 04:27pm
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Posted 11/07/09 at 04:26pm
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
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ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:18pm
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
Posted 11/07/09 at 03:34pm
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:58am
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:56am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:51am
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:48am
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:11am
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:07am
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:05am
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:03am
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:56am
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:45am
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:37am
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:36am
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:32am
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:30am
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Posted 11/07/09 at 08:44am
JDKJ: And it isn't yet clear what type of ammunition Hasan used. It's strange that he purchased a gun but didn't purchase ammunition for it at the same place and time. Especially because the calibre required is peculiar to the actual gun.
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