In Wake of Resistance Flap, a Sacred Digital Edict for Game Makers

July 6, 2007 -
Despite Sony's "unreserved" apology, Church of England officials remain outraged over the use of Manchester Cathedral as a setting for PS3 hit Resistance: Fall of Man.

In fact, Manchester Cathedral has issued a digital code of conduct for aspiring video game makers. As reported by the Times , these rules include:
1. Respect our sacred spaces as places of prayer, worship, peace, learning and heritage.

2. Do not assume that sacred space interiors are copyright free.

3. Get permission from the faith leaders who are responsible for the building interiors you want to clone.

4. Support the work of those engaged in resisting the culture of gun crime and those involved in promoting the work of conflict resolution.

Dean of Manchester, the Very Rev Rogers Govender (left), is rather down on the video game industry just now:
We have been dismayed at those in the computer industry who have defended the use of Manchester Cathedral in this a violent game... As Christians we follow Christ the prince of peace. We as a Cathedral Chapter deplore all forms of violence and would urge game makers to consider avoiding the production of violent games if at all possible.

There is a mood in the nation and in the global community regarding these sort of games. In the past few weeks we have seen games being withdrawn for including what appear to be images of James Bulger’s kidnapping. We have seen the British Board of Film Classification ban Manhunt 2 because it would in their view involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks to both adults and minors.

Comments

Concerning the location fees for film, TV. There is a difference between the physical use of the location and the image of the location. If a film were to show a location without filming there, e.g., by shooting in the 'wrong' location or by building sets or using CGI and bluescreen, they don't have to pay a location fee to the location depicted. Gladiator, for example, didn't have to pay fees to Rome because they never filmed there in the first place. The Colosseum shown in the film was a combo of a set and CGI.

As a side-note I think I should note that its intolerance, not religion that is at the core of the turmoil and terrorism of the world.

But you know all about intolerance don't you?

In an addition to that, you can choose one from both sides. Or I would suggest? Saving one of these sides from the brink of madness?

To Erik,

Is that so? I really beg to differ, because that person you posters described are: insane, forcing people to believe the person's beliefs and so on. And by the way, you shouldn't be playing too much games. And if that's the comment you are giving me, then I guess I am in the wrong side. Or may I think otherwise? Both sides: Gamers and anti-game activists are mad.

Yes, the stormfront poster made a similar post to the one you just made. But exchange terrorism with crime and religions with black. Of course a more matching comparison would be the comments Jack Thompson made about the muslim faith. Congrats on sharing an opinion with that whack job.

To Erik,

And it's also a waste of effort to try to tell you the turmoil of the world caused by terrorism is also supported by religions. And by the way, I heard that there is one crazy Christian poster had posted in the old GamePolitics Livejournal, but I couldn't find the entry, mind if anyone show me the link?

I would gladly laugh at the ignorance of that asshole. And that asshole could probably be you, Erik.

Its really a waste of effort to debate with someone like Clyde Wyman. It will get you about as far as debating against racism at a Klan rally. The best thing to do is give them a pat on the head and wait for them to go away.

To SlyFox,

"the judicial system is crap and converting to Islam might as well be a get-out-of-jail-free card."

That's the problem with Islam countries in terms of bias though. Haha, what if a child murderer or a rapist gets caught and scheduled to sentenced to death, but in the end, gets released because he converts to Islam? That's what I called biased and unfair. And how glad I am, for I would not have to suffer in Islamic countries (i.e. Iraq) for I am not being born there and may the good spirits bless the innocent civilians in Iraq! For they have to suffer under the War of Terror for almost 30 years (I guess).

And as for the comic book series "Battle Pope", I would be keen to check it out.

@Clyde

"Indonesian Muslims have taken a survey at the 10th July 2007 which is today, my boy. And damn, most of them voted that it is okay to kill, harm or maim non-Muslims and even supported Osama for his so-called “holiness”. Can you imagine that? Absurdities can brainwash people into committing atrocities."

Hehe... could have told you that without the aid of a survey, which is probably a fair bit biased, but meh. You're right, though- it's absurd that Osama would be referred to as "holy"... one does not get to be holy be twisting religious texts and zealotry. In Bali, it seems, the judicial system is crap and converting to Islam might as well be a get-out-of-jail-free card. As for the bombings of clinics, haven't heard of any of them recently and I gladly (and with much relief) assure you that such incidents are not supported but condemned by the vast majority of the Christain and non-Christain population.

On another note, I belive the comic book series "Battle Pope" would be right up your alley... it's blasphemerrific!
^_^

To Erik,

Ha, mainly I don't use games for political reasons and normally, I don't play racing games nor own a Xbox 360, but hey, that sounds fun.

To SlyFox,

"If you want to make any valid points, try backing them up with incidents that the vast majority support and then occurred sooner than 100 years ago. Otherwise you’re merely fanning the flames of hatred with invalid statements."

There is no need for me to make what you called "invalid statements", because the present is much worst than you think it is and guess what? Indonesian Muslims have taken a survey at the 10th July 2007 which is today, my boy. And damn, most of them voted that it is okay to kill, harm or maim non-Muslims and even supported Osama for his so-called "holiness". Can you imagine that? Absurdities can brainwash people into committing atrocities.

And Christian-wise, they just love to show that their God are powerful than the other gods aren't they? Haha, oh, The Army of God is one example, desperately trying to prove others that their God is so-called "merciful" by targeting abortion clinics and providers?

All this boils down to one thing, Jesus will not be coming back to save us, The Second Coming of Christ? Sorry, not in my calendar.

Clyde, have you considered making a religion hate car in Forza 2 to go along with the white power car?

@Clyde

"If you don’t understand what I am saying, you are either just plain ignorant or a insignificant fucking varmint."

Hey, no reason to get personal. Has anyone yet made any insults toward you personally? No. What if we were to call you a "hick" because you use the term "varmint"? (Yes, I know there would be no real logic in that but it's about the same logic you're using by insulting people personally in such a way.)

"Oh, so that means that all of the people must worship and work for him so that they can go to Heaven?"

Maybe it said that in the Old Testiment but then it also said alot of other things that hold no real bearing today. That's why it's the *Old* one, not the new one. Even then, if the Bible or Koran were re-written again today, it would say the same message (probably "love your neighbor, regardless or race, religion, creed, etc.") without all the heavily idealistic views. Try to remember that these texts are a couple thousand years old at least and were heavily influenced by the views of the time period in which they were written.

If you want to make any valid points, try backing them up with incidents that the vast majority support and then occurred sooner than 100 years ago. Otherwise you're merely fanning the flames of hatred with invalid statements.


@Sean
Now that's a good point. I can't wait to see how they spin this one. If Cheney bounced around, claiming it's a death threat against him, wouldn't the La Rouchiesbe all for the game, or do you think Cheney would turn his sights on them first?

Where's all the commotion regarding the White House being featured in Hitman: Blood Money? You assassinate the vice-president, Cheney should be all over that claiming it's a death threat towards him.

To Iliya_Moroumetz,

The way I see it, your ignorance and lack of perspective just baffles me. I'm acting no better than the Church of England? Haha, those Christians from that church think that violent video games and portrayal of their so-called "holy" buildings, are an abomination to God. If you don't understand what I am saying, you are either just plain ignorant or a insignificant fucking varmint.

To ZippyDSMlee,

The Bible or the Koran has stated that those who don't believe in their Gods shall be punishable by death. Oh, so that means that all of the people must worship and work for him so that they can go to Heaven? Haha. I bet Christians who do good deeds are just out of fear, not compassion.

To Doctor Gulag,

I agree. Especially those innocent lives being claimed by those insane Islamists. Namely Nick Berg whose innocent life is being claimed by those insane Islamists and what's new? Christians burning and killing Buddhists to dead in Thailand? I should give two thumbs for Voltaire for warning us that, people who believes in absurdities would commit atrocities.

>>> Church of England officials remain outraged

Then to hell with them. Who cares? What do they want? A sacrifice? The programmers burned at the stake? In the name of PR, Sony appeased the Church's little fairy tales, and that's that.

Religious leaders, given the violent and oppressive history of most religions, should really STFU and keep their heads down, because most people I know have just about had it with them- be they exploding Muslims or Christians getting elected and imposing their will on others. People are going to start running for office on strong separation of Church/State platforms, an winning.

And the game takes place in a parallel universe, so the whole controversy is over NOTHING.

From what I've been brought up to believe in my old school (It's Jesuit-run), religion tends to be divided up between the preachers, and the pulpit. While they're members of the same community, it'd be very, very immature to bunch them up just because of one bad egg.

And while the CoE does cast negative light on what its beliefs stand for, I'm hoping the followers are more level-headed and mature-minded than what Rev. Govender has shown.

Every religion has its extremes.

[...] I’ve refrained from commenting thus far on the Manchester Cathedral “controversy,” largely because it seems fairly evident to me that the Anglican officials in question are trying to milk it for all it’s worth.  I was amused, however, to read that they’ve recently issued a “code of conduct” for games using religious buildings as a setting.  So what exactly do games owe to the settings they expropriate? [...]

Clyde Wyman
nicely said, my faith is based off of some of Christianities mythos as it where but I tend to be a realist and go with the better meanings from it and I tend to ignore dislike the apparent "status quo" of Christianity to me its not abotu who you sleep with but how many partners you have even then when dose learning life and sin start,I think Christianity tends to cling to the "stick" to much in order to fill their phews, if you stop and think about it most religions use this tactic, like any other religions once you tear it down and rebuild it you can see what its made of,power to males and to 1 god in order to keep society "stable" or at least passfied and pad the coffers of the chruch on the other hand pure faith hope and light can be found.

Don't discount all of Christianity by thos corrupted by the power they hold or thos that demand you be witless sheeple and follow in their bland steps,the light comes in shades of all colors thos that do not understand this are lost and to be pitied or ignore depending on if your care meter is over 9000 or not :P

Clyde.

Hate much? And to be honest, you're acting no better than the CoE.

Anyway, being a Christian myself, I find this whole thing absurd. If anything, they should be flattered that the developers took the time to make a reproduction of the building in the game. Guess the present clergy are just greedy.

@Clyde

Well I doubt he abandones or hates anyone, you especially, but hey... that's the way I see it.

Rev Rogers Govender
............................................... historic sites can be parodied,you might not like it but thats the law you sir jsut want a pulpit to toto thumb and blow smoke while begging for money to shut up.

you sir are a hypocrite and a lair,get a life and go back to herding your sheeple.

To jakethe8lf,

"Hitler believed in Norse Gods, that’s why he favoured the Aryan race."

He is also said to be Lutheran Christian. And he even called the Holocaust as a "final solution to the Jews". And this can also tell you that Christians despise Jewish religion as "incomplete".

And as for SlyFox,

"Weren’t you yourself saying that Catholic priests were raping/molesting children, including underage boys?"

Raping/molesting and homosexuality are both different things.

Raping/molesting is an despicable act of touching one's private part of both male or female while homosexuality is both of the same sex making love. So if you think that raping or molesting an individual is good, go ahead.

Jesus abandoned me and hates me. So do I too.

Okay.....two things:

1) Any portrayal of something in real life does not constitute as the actual representation in a videogame.

2) No one bothered to get angry at the inaccurate portrayal of Ancient Greece in God of War.

This kind of crap is why I left the Christian Church. Of course I still believe in God but almost all major organized religion is corrupt and elitest.

First off who are they to demand that Sony stop making violent games. Sony can make whatever game it wants in a free society. Are they gonna demand that movie studios stop producing violent movies as well. Where were they when Saw and Hostel were released. Also how the hell can you copyright a building or a historical landmarks. Historical landmarks have been used in games all the time. Let me guess should the owners of the statue of liberty be allowed to sue the makers of Duke Nukem because of one of those games used it for a level in one of those games. Also the Cathedral scene is very short from what I understand. Not even a whole level.

@Tulang, the use fees movie and TV productions have to pay have more to do with the PHYSICAL use of the space. They're compensating the owner of the space for removing it from its intended use for the duration of the filming.

Obviously video games don't actually physically use any of the spaces depicted in them, so no such fee is necessary.

k, I'm dun.

@Clyde

just to be picky ^_^

...Weren't you yourself saying that Catholic priests were raping/molesting children, including underage boys? Wouldn't that be a direct contradiction of this other statement of your's?:
"And oh, may we not forget homophobia in Christianity?"

Meh, go ahead and get pissed off. I thought you already were but seeing as how you can't do didley squat over the net, please, by all means. Also, I don't believe that I forced anything at all on you. Here's a funny little question: If Christains hate and despise and desire to kill and destroy those who do not share the same beliefs as they do, and if I am a Christain myself, then why do I have and love and Pagan girlfriend? You really can't just sum up an entire group of people and assume that they're all bad because of various "atrocities" of the past, especially if you haven't done research on said people. Have a good one ^_^

Oh My God....The Church of England needs to chill out already. Why is it that churches can't see their own hypocrisies? "You repented but it's not good enough" Yeah...thanks for being so forgiving guys. You are the kind of people I want my kids to grow up being.

"To Brokenscope,

Yeah, that too. I have seen countless of news that bishops raped children of their own so-called “holy faith”. Those Christians calling themselves the true “do-gooders”? Let me guess, Hitler, being a Lutheran Christian, killed 6 millions of Jews in the Holocaust because Jewish faith is incomplete in Christianity. And errr, the Ku Klux Klan also a Christian group, kills the black people because they think that white people are closer to God than black people and also have a thought that the latter is an abomination to God.

Haha, maybe these will give you a very good idea of a so-called “compassionate” religion? "


Its funny you should mention the KKK. Because your little hate speech here is right up there with their ramblings on the "atrocities" committed by blacks and jewish people.

@Clyde, Hitler believed in Norse Gods, that's why he favoured the Aryan race.

@Clyde

You mean the catholic Church don't you?

To Brokenscope,

Yeah, that too. I have seen countless of news that bishops raped children of their own so-called "holy faith". Those Christians calling themselves the true "do-gooders"? Let me guess, Hitler, being a Lutheran Christian, killed 6 millions of Jews in the Holocaust because Jewish faith is incomplete in Christianity. And errr, the Ku Klux Klan also a Christian group, kills the black people because they think that white people are closer to God than black people and also have a thought that the latter is an abomination to God.

Haha, maybe these will give you a very good idea of a so-called "compassionate" religion?

I am so sick to death of hearing about these religious freaks bitching & crying. They need to get themselves a fucking life & piss off out of everyones damn face. The gaming industry will do what ever the bloody hell it likes & a bunch of delusional zealots are never going to change that. Deal with it & fuck off.

Fuck the Catholic Church & fuck the Manchester Cathedral. I DO NOT give a shit.

@Clyde

Done with your ranting yet? You seem to be picking just the extremely negative groups that just *happen* to be Christain, or at least claim to be. Has it occurred to you yet that one merely saying that they are Christain, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. does not make them Christain, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.? Perhaps it's actually ones actions and attitudes that make them who or what they are. Yeah, the CoE seems to want money and to get their way. So what? You're surprised? Money makes the world go around these days, regardless of who is trying to get more of it.

I hope you "enjoy" this post as much as you did my last one directed at you. Had you not been at all annoyed that someone called you out for spouting on about how much you hated people, you would not have cared enough to reply. But you did, which tickled me pink, so thanks. ^_^

Mike, the Catholic church aren't actually involved...it's Church of England which is a protestant religion...

To SlyFox,

"Done with your ranting yet? You seem to be picking just the extremely negative groups that just *happen* to be Christain, or at least claim to be. Has it occurred to you yet that one merely saying that they are Christain, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. does not make them Christain, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.? Perhaps it’s actually ones actions and attitudes that make them who or what they are. Yeah, the CoE seems to want money and to get their way. So what? You’re surprised? Money makes the world go around these days, regardless of who is trying to get more of it.

I hope you “enjoy” this post as much as you did my last one directed at you. Had you not been at all annoyed that someone called you out for spouting on about how much you hated people, you would not have cared enough to reply. But you did, which tickled me pink, so thanks. ^_^"

As for the reply to your first question, I'm not done with my ranting yet, and if so, why do you want to know? That's none of your business. The truth speaks for itself, Voltaire even said this,

"Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

This case is true for Hitler, Osama Bin Laden and other religious cult groups. And oh, may we not forget homophobia in Christianity?

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13

Although I do believe that spirits and entities lingering around our world. But I am not like you, SlyFox. And I don't believe a supreme being from the sky creates Earth and made us humans from dirt. If you want to believe in that, I see no point in stopping you but don't expect nor force me to believe in it though, lest I get pissed off.

I was thinking. If a mod community dedicated themselves to recreating manchester church in every FPS game there is. There would be nothing they could do about it because there wouldn't be a company to be held responsible. In the end they would just wish they kept quiet as it would have been just Resistance otherwise.

Well I'm christian, and although we've done alot of horrible things, I have to say, this is pretty bad. It sounds more like they're trying to enslave gaming industries to their will. Didn't this all get started becuase jack thompson brought up his fake idea of "Violent video games breeds violent people".

Has anyone noticed that Jack is the one who is making people believe this? Oh and dont' forget that bastard's lies he continually feeds the media so people start to support the idea of "Violent video games are bad".

To treydawg,

"some one do a manchester church level for counter-strike source. make the reverend a hostage."

I agree! You should know how I much I damn hate Christianity! Let me ask you, who are the people who kills innocent people because they are non-believers, it is the Christians! Who are the people who imprisoned Galileo because of his scientific views? It was the Christians! And I hate them!

some one do a manchester church level for counter-strike source. make the reverend a hostage.

Christians still don't even understand that their own moral codes are wrong. No amount of prayers or good deeds can cover up for your own sins, not even Jesus can save you from your misery because, he is a vindictive person and a megalomaniac!

So to the people of Church of England, how stupid are you!

I got 2 words for the Church of England, and I know someone around here is not gonna like but I don't care. Free speech and all that. SO, Church of england.

"FUCK YOU!!"

You are the last people to talk about whats MORAL and Ethical in this day and age, given the whole Child molestation crap, money stealing, and so forth. SO shut up, and go away. You opinion is not welcome here.

And Sony, you bunch of freaking Pussies. No wonder people have no respect for you anymore, in or out of the industry. I hope you go under and all your games are moved over to xbox.

I know this comment will more or less go ignored, but where's that Super Columbine Massacre guy and the V-Tech Rampage kid when we could use them? This would make perfect fodder for a parody game... Hmm oh well.

The Church of England can go to hell.

Thats it. These smug assholes are gonna get it. I am going to learn to make a game that is just you and a rocket launcher and the outside of their Church. I will call it "Payback: Smug Assholes Getting What They Diserve".

"1. Respect our sacred spaces as places of prayer, worship, peace, learning and heritage."

Bullshit. You were the ones who burned thousands of Pagans after the CoE was formed to get popular support from the masses (who you wanted to convirt from Catholicism). Oh, and if they didnt convirt, you killed the Catholics too.

"2. Do not assume that sacred space interiors are copyright free."

I lost count on how many movies use sacred spaces as practicaly firing ranges for bad guys. You hipocracy knows no bounds. Hence the "smug asshole" comment.

"3. Get permission from the faith leaders who are responsible for the building interiors you want to clone."

And who would be the faith leader. The priest? The bishop? The fucking Queen of England? Who would you consider your leader? On top of that, is there any legal reason to go to the top? I am sure SONY did their homework and just backed down because you just happened to take advantage of a popular scapegoat in order to get easy cash by bitching like a choir boy sitting on your lap (and not in the good way... in his opinion).

"4. Support the work of those engaged in resisting the culture of gun crime and those involved in promoting the work of conflict resolution."

Wow, someone is a smug asshole today. How about this, SONY gets to make any game it damn well pleases and you and the dickless politician that gave you the scapegoat idea to get easy money can go to hell. Your hell. Because I am already in my hell having to listen to this crap. You know, Wrath may be a deadly sin, but so is GREED! That is all this is about, greed. Because I have yet to hear the same outcry over one of the many movies that have shootouts in churches. Movies make guns look cooler than videogames can, because the actors dont mess up and hit 10 people with 9 bullets. In game, you can mess up and miss. Hypocracy at work.

They forgot to add "copyright fees" to the first rule in their "digital code of conduct".

Imagine if entire cities had their own "digital code of conduct", baring developers from using the likes of New York City or Baghdad in their creation, instead of simply copyrighting the image, like the Eiffel Tower at night.

I still don't understand why they're still on this. It's not as if the section of the game involves mowing down Dad, Mum, and little Joseph on their way to Church. If war has anything to do with gun-crime, i'd be immensely surprised.

Well, if I made a video game, I'm not too concerned about what a church may or may not think.

The plain fact is, some buildings are excellent virtual playgrounds for FPS games. The Getty museum in southern Kali-phone-iya comes to mind...

Wow talk about thinking their all high and mighty, this will probably be one of those events where it will create a slight stir then just fade away. I mean apparently they are making mountains out of mole hills because the Catholic Church didn't even raise a fuss when the Anime Trinity Blood was created. I think they just want money to be honest.

The Church of England are hypocrites, considering that the Church was founded by King Henry VIII, who founded it because he wanted to divorce his first wife because she couldn't give birth to a boy, and the Catholic Church wouldn't grant him one. Then King Henry VIII had most of his other wives killed for the same reason.

They seem so unforgiving. In fact, they seem oh so driven by hatred. They're not acting very Christian. You'd think the CoE could at least act as if these apologies meant something. Yet they're still just as fiery as before.

Sony has apologized multiple times now. They remain so polite in the face of such blatant money-grubbing.
 
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Papa MidnightTerry Crews for Luke Cage. Make it happen, Marvel and Netflix :)09/02/2014 - 9:58pm
prh99I would be shocked if Nintendo said it was region free, or even made it optional like XBox 360 for that matter.09/02/2014 - 7:22pm
Matthew WilsonI should say the recent past.09/02/2014 - 6:58pm
Matthew Wilsongiven their past, I do not blame people for thinking they will not change. I think they will keep region locking too.09/02/2014 - 6:48pm
E. Zachary KnightMan. People have no confidence in Nintendo regarding region locking the New 3DS.09/02/2014 - 6:20pm
Andrew EisenThat doesn't mean there has to be a movie though. Having said that, I've no doubt that we will eventually get a Black Panther movie. But Stan Lee will probably learn about it around the same time you and I do.09/02/2014 - 2:34pm
MaskedPixelanteWell they have to get to him eventually. Captain America's shield didn't grow on a tree, the minerals to make it had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is Wakanda.09/02/2014 - 2:31pm
E. Zachary KnightYes, but it has never been confirmed as in development, or even pre-production.09/02/2014 - 2:21pm
MaskedPixelanteBlack Panther's been on the short list for a while.09/02/2014 - 2:18pm
E. Zachary KnightIt is possible that Stan Lee mispoke. I don't think he knows everything Marvel movies. But it is a sweet idea if true.09/02/2014 - 2:04pm
Andrew EisenSo says Stan Lee who almost certainly wouldn't know.09/02/2014 - 2:04pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.cinemablend.com/new/Marvel-Black-Panther-Movie-Confirmed-By-Stan-Lee-66993.html Black Panther is apparently getting a movie. And maybe one for Black Widow, even though I think it's too late for her.09/02/2014 - 1:53pm
Cheater87Look what FINALLY came to Australia uncut! http://www.gamespot.com/articles/left-4-dead-2-gets-reclassified-in-australia/1100-6422038/09/02/2014 - 6:49am
Andrew EisenHence the "Uh, yeah. Obviously."09/02/2014 - 12:53am
SleakerI think Nintendo has proven over the last 2 years that it doesn't.09/02/2014 - 12:31am
Andrew EisenSleaker - Uh, yeah. Obviously.09/01/2014 - 8:20pm
Sleaker@AE - exclusives do not a console business make.09/01/2014 - 8:03pm
Papa MidnightI find it disappointing that, despite the presence of a snopes article and multiple articles countering it, people are still spreading a fake news story about a "SWATter" being sentenced to X (because the number seems to keep changing) years in prison.09/01/2014 - 5:08pm
Papa MidnightAnd resulting in PC gaming continuing to be held back by developer habits09/01/2014 - 5:07pm
Papa MidnightI find it disappointing that the current gen of consoles is representative of 2009-2010 in PC gaming, and will be the bar by which games are released over the next 8 years - resulting in more years of poor PC ports (if they're ever ported)09/01/2014 - 5:06pm
 

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