i realy saorry to say this xbox 360 fans but micsof can not fix the red light any more all xbox 360 well probley die out thank for read this plz eamil me if you want any more ifo good by

@Chris: "First, if your 360 hasn’t died you should just shut the hell up. After all you’re getting a free extended warranty."

You lose any credibility that you might have otherwise had with this emotional outburst.

"but it’s not necessarily Microsofts fault. They may have just gotten sub-spec parts."

False. When putting together consumer electronics, the producers (MS, in this case) put together a design schematic that details exact parts specifications. Not, "a power supply," or even, "a power supply that provides 400 watts," but a specific power supply by a specific manufacturer. They knew exactly what they were getting. If they didn't know it was substandard quality (a laughable suggestion), then it is stillvery much their fault for not getting as much information as possible from their supplier. But it's much more likely that they knew exactly what the power supplies were capable of, and decided that they were within acceptible failure tolerances for the price being paid for them.

I have a 1983 Mitsubishi color TV that I bought new. It's traveled across the country and back with me; has been plugged in with and without surge protectors, has been unplugged during thunderstorms, and sometimes has been left plugged in during thunderstorms. It's been on apartment building circuits, house circuits, good and bad circuits.

It's still going strong.

So basically, I have to conclude that MS is using electronic technology that isn't even up to 1985 quality standards. Not surprising.

Hey, check out the section E exclusion in the 360's warranty... http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemsetup/xbox360/resources/warranty...
Says they don't cover damage from power surges... hmmmmm...

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Point the finger of blame elsewhere, (especially at the customer)

Classic Company PR moves when they are trying to dodge the real issue.

Real Problem: Shoddy component design in an effort to reduce the form factor (because everyone complained that the original XBOX was too damn big). Internals get too hot, warp the mobo, break the connections, red rings of death.

[...] Hot on the heels of the new Xbox 360 warranty for Red Rings of Death, Microsoft support is allegedly now claiming that it's surge protectors that are clambaking Xbox 360s. Gamepolitics.com has anecdotal personal exerience with the claim, and also reference an article on Law of the Game. [...]

@Randomd

Meh, I was just tossing out the only possible connection between surge protectors and overheating that I could think of. Personally I'm surprised that supposedly current changes can damage the 360's fans at all. Fan motors are usually a bit more sturdy than that.

"Hmmm... What can we blame this on so we dont look bad... anyone?"
This is what i think was said in all meetings at microsoft about the 360, but who knows. What it comes down to is: The box breaks to easy.. find the fault and fix it! Atleast stop selling the current fubar version until its modded/fixed to work outside the MS labs...

67Mod

Well, even with all the finger pointing and blameshifting that Microsoft is apparently doing here they still haven't said:
1)They have truly located the problem of the Red Rings and
2) that they can fix it, or have fixed it.

A recent news story said that the defects are costing MS $1billion dollars. Not saying that alot of that isn't overhead and R&D to try and fix the defect, but that kind of dough comes to 2,500,000 360's that they have taken a loss on, AND that number doesn't figure in the compensation checks that MS is having to write out OR the other defective units that are still out on the shelves and in the marketplace as we speak.

At this rate i'm willing to believe that MS is going to start losing more money on the defective system than they will make on it.

I smell BS from several thousand kilometers away. My 360 is a launch Premium version. I've had it plugged into a surge bar since I bought it, and it's never given me any trouble. And my house isn't new, it was built in 1899, and I don't even want to think about when the wiring was done (We've only managed to install new stuff in a few rooms). So blaming a surge protect is totally out of the question.

can anyone get a scan of the Xbox 360 manual where it says not to use surge protectors, I am not sure it is even in there.

@Randomd

The only thing I can think of is that according to the article, one of the things that undercurrent supposedly damages is the fans. So if the coolings fans pack in, you'd be looking at an overheat in short order.

Either way it's pretty sad that the 360's PSU can't keep normal current variations from damaging the hardware.

Completely unfounded and untrue. There is no basis to this. First off, I'm a veteran system builder. I know computer parts better than most people and I know electronics and circuitry as well. If this isn't possible for a computer, it's not for a 360. Besides that, you can easily kill this myth by testing your surge protector's output. The voltage fluctuation has nothing to do with it. If anything it would turn off your system. I had my system die out and it's on an expensive strip.

I would have investigated this myself to see exactly why my 360 died, but that would void the warranty. I take very good care of my electronics. I'm talking ventilation, dusting, not near electrostatic charged items and anything you could do to protect a piece of electronics. Yet my first one failed. I've never had a piece of electronics fail due to anything but manufacturer's fault or ware & tear aka. old age.

If you get a line like this, definitely challenge the person on the phone. If they can't give you proof, they have no reason to tell you. No piece of consumer electronics is so power sensitive that it would cause corruption due to a slight flux in the voltage or amps. If this were true, they'd put a clause in the warranty or on the instructions. If it were also true, they wouldn't sell it because a company would have to be stupid to sell something like that. It's nearly impossible for a consumer to get a device to use a constant, non-fluctuating power source.

I've read quite a lot of in depth analysis regarding the red-ring issue. Most of this analysis suggests the problem is entirely to do with over-heating. This over-heating can cause the mother board to warp, this warping can lead to broken solder joints and dislodged chips.

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I don't see how a loss of current could cause this level of over heating. Not that I don't think there is a power supply issue, I do. And I think Microsoft themselves have provided the explanation.

When we look back to Microsoft's recent statement regarding the red ring issues, Microsoft specifically admits that MULTIPLE design issues are to blame.

So if red ring = overheating, but red ring also = blown power supply, it suggests that red ring isn't associated with any specific failure cause, it's only associated with the end result. This end result is a hardware failure so massive that the built in diagnostics can't determine the cause.

My guess, red ring only means that the system has suffered a truly massive hardware failure. Red ring doesn't relate to any specific cause of that failure. High heat can cause a massive system failure, as can a blown power supply. Perhaps there are other causes of red rings, time will tell.

What seems clear is that the current design of Xbox 360 suffers from multiple, terminal design defects.

For the record, mine was plugged directly into the wall, and it died anyway

My XBOX 360 died within a few weeks of picking it up, and this was just after the release. Since then, six of my mates have bought a 360 as well, and 3 of them had to have them replaced. One of my mates had his replaced twice, and this happened to him as soon as he took it home, plugged it in and tried to turn it on. He got the same error twice on two different consoles. This is a joke.

Add me to the list of people whose 360 was never plugged into a surge protector. Further, let me say that I mainly played it at work in a mainframe environment (highly air conditioned to keep various industrial components, including high-speed laser printers, from overheating and breaking down). Basically, my 360 had no business breaking down due to external forces. That leaves three possible culprits for my situation: poor design, shoddy manufacturing, or me performing some as-yet unnamed activity.

While I'm thinking of it, what kind of permanent damage could possibly happen due to a sudden drop in power? If anything like that were to occur with any other product I can think of, a reset would resolve the problem.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that this is a distraction from some greater flaw in the design of the console.

@Xtrife

It could be both. The 360's PSU could be sub standard and they're trying to direct the blame onto something other than a 360 component.

Either way the surge protector thing is utter crap. I find it unlikely that a surge protector would generate significantly more power drops in the line than you'd get from just the power outlet on the wall.

Not to mention that "and probably 90% of the consoles they see have all failed in 6-12 months of being plugged into a surge protector." is utterly meaningless, it's a red herring. Afterall, most people aren't going to have their TV and game console being the sole things plugged in at a spot. They're going to plug their shiny new console into the power strip for their entertainment center with their TV, Tivo, other consoles, and their sound system. And they're going to being using a surge protector for all that as it's simply common sense to do what you can to protect your expensive electronics from sources of damage.

Caused by a surge protector? That's so bullshit it's pathetic.

The PC powersupply is designed to protect the system from damaging power fluctuations, it will burn it self out rather then letting the power get through to the sensitive components(A good psu that is)

So either the Xbox360 is using a substandard psu or they are lying to put the blame elsewhere.

I think the latter is more likely.

God damnit MS, just tell everyone about your RoHS problems.

Old news. I remember reading the manual that states you HAVE to plug it directly into an outlet. The news about them being sensitive to power changes is old, since the cooler units that'd plug into the back would suck power from the 360, and this also may have caused problems for killing 360s.
It wouldn't surprise me if surge protectors did the same, but it is a shame on MS for not making them compatible and another result of their "rushing" the system into retailers.

because I have other appliances that you can't use with a surge protector.

Sounds to me like a preemptive strike to deny their new 3-year warranty claims.

My 360 is always plugged into an UPS, and it never turned into red light.
But when i didn't use an UPS, after like 2 hours of gameplaying, the ring on my 360 turned red.
i think that the solution is to use an UPS, and my UPS value when i bought it, is about 80$.
what i hate about 360 is when i'm pull the plug and then i plugged it again i have to set the clock all over again. and it's disturbing me.
and BTW i also own a PS3.

The surge protector could be one possible cause of a dead 360, but mine wasn't plugged into one and it died (though, I do know people who do use surge protectors, and I think they went through 2 dead 360s).

They told me this when my Xbox360 died last year. It sounds like an excuse to attempt to move the manufacturing error to the power strip. If a system can't run from a power strip, that's a serious manufacturer's flaw, since it is supposed to run on house current.

"Red Ring" Xbox 360 Issues Caused By Surge Protection?...

I've heard a lot of staggeringly unbelievable claims in my life, but I think Microsoft's latest explanation for why so many of the company's Xbox 360 consoles die a premature death belongs somewhere near the top of the pile. Law...

Yea yea add this to the ever expanding list of things that are reported to make the bloody thing pack in.

My APC has four slots of clean power and four slots for battery back up. It was only 100$ at best buy and it has saved my ass repeatedly.

There is a difference between a surge protector and an uninterpretable power supply.

A surge protector is actually pretty useless. A UPS has an internal battery that cleans any dirty power coming out of the circuit, and compensates for fluctuation.

When the guy at best buy tries to sell you a $70 Monster power strip, just say no and buy a real UPS.

I have a friend who hasn't has his 360 die on him yet. He never uses a surge protector, then again, he could just be lucky, he keeps it away from the power supply and in a well vented area.

As for the thought of using a UPS, there are some key features to understand about them.

There are different types, Standby UPS which doesn't use the battery UNTIL there is a drop in power, which your system would already face and thus damage it before the UPS comes online. Thus the UPS you get at circuit city and things wouldn't fix your problem. The ones in the $40-120 range are this type.

Then there are active UPS, the ones that ANYTHING plugged in IS using battery power, and while the UPS is plugged in, it's constantly recharging the battery. Then if the drops or anything from the wall, it wont effect your system, since you are getting an always constant flow from the battery backup (UPS). These will cost $150-800 depending on your power needs. Ask anyone who runs servers or other equipment, they usually get active UPS systems and not standby ones.

Actually, it could make sense, even if the surge strip and/or circuit is not overloaded. However, it's still poor design, but not unheard of (I replace many devices a week that suffer from the same issue in a large entertainment/commercial environment).

Ever notice that when you turn on some appliances or things like the water heater kick in, the lights in the house/apartment/whatever will usually dim, then brighten a little bit, then go back to normal? This is because of the way electricity works. When an appliance turns on (such as a TV, dishwasher, water heater, etc), it usually takes in a large in-rush of currents (amps) to start up/turn on. These amps have to come from somewhere, and if the device/appliance is electrically connected before other things, there is a noticeable current drop to these other things when other stuff turns on.

The solution is usually at the breaker/fuse box, where appliances that require a lot of starting current are usually last in the box so they don't rob current from everything else. On a surge strip, the solution would be to put them last in the strip to avoid robbing current from sensitive devices.

It is possible, and not uncommon in some commercial environments, for electronics to be so sensitive that even a small drop in current can damage them. In a household enviroment, these drops can be large. Most consumer electronics these days, however, account for this which is why we don't all have to replace our power supplies or DVD players or TVs constantly. One would expect the same electrical protection in a $400 console.

Finally, make sure you don't overload your household electrical! An average household uses 15a branch circuits to feed outlets in the living room/den/etc. This means at most you may have 1800 watts (although running that high to the limit will damage your breaker), unless you had a good electrician, then the limit is closer to 2400 watts. Add up the wattage of all your connected devices to the power strip(s), if it comes close to this you are asking for trouble down the line.

I have one socket in my room. One.

My PC, 360, PS2, Gamecube, TV, monitor and speakers all use a surge protector when plugged in.

Only my 360 has failed. Twice. I've never heard of this problem with a PS3 or Wii, either.

So my 2 is my fault because...?

sounds like a load of horse shit to me. i've had mine from day 1, plugged into a Belkin surge protector of some sort for this entire time.

90 percent of them were plugged into surge protectors when they failed?

Well, maybe, but 100 percent of them were turned off when not in use. Clearly turning a 360 off is what causes the failure.

Quick, someone call Microsoft.

This doesn't make sense, they are just trying to push the blame onto the customers. BS. Even if it is the case, which doesn't seem very logical to me, it is still Microsoft's fault for not designing around that. Its extremely common for people to use a such devices to hook up all their electronics that it should very well support its use.

M$ = Fail and they just need to admit it and fix the problem so I can feel confident enough to buy one.

But even so, isn’t a surge protector design to counter reductions in power

The surge protector is designed to counter sudden increases in power (hence the "surge" part) without reducing power output. However, there are bound to be some transient power drops when another device on the same surge protector starts pulling more power. I agree with the OP, though: If your electronics can't deal with temporary drops in power without breaking, they're crap.

Well, that makes me breathe a little easier if it's true. I got my 360 a month or so ago, and with all the brouhaha, I've been getting a bit worried, even though I haven't had any problems outside of a few lockups.

Where I live, we don't use surge protectors. I don't know why, but I've never actually seen one - we just use regular extension cords.

Anyway, you'd think this is the kind of issue that wouldn't occur with a big honkin' external PSU like the 360's. Sounds pretty odd.

My 360 showed me her red ring of death yesterday... and I'm using an UPS as well. When it displayed the three red flashing lights, the UPS beeeeped, my modem restarted, all the lights on my house went down and up again. Two times in a row, since I tried to restart the console and it happened again.

Hey guys my cous has a 360 with the rings of death and has already purchased an elite..My question is , w/o any proof of purchase or sales receipts will microsoft gimme any shit about replacing it?I can get this console for 50 bucks..thanks

Every electrical component has a power rating... if a component is performing a sensitive operation and suddenly the power source fails to provide enough power, it can have unexpected and possibly fatal consequences.

The problem is poor design, MS didn't leave enough "wiggle room" on the power source... or the PSU was poorly designed.

With such a huge brick of a PSU I wouldn't initially suspect a quick power drop would get past the PSU. (Seems like it would level out any spikes)

My brother had a Xbox 360 that died a week after the warranty ran out. He tore the console apart and re-heated all the solder joints on the xbox's system board. Now the xbox works as good as it did when it was out of the box. Before the xbox actually got the RROD it was pluged into a outlet all by itself. So I seriously don't think the RROD has anything to do with power "failure", and poorly designed cooling is a major culprit. However Im not going to completely scratch out the power as a culprit, yet.

Check me out on Live playin Halo 3

dickandwichs 8===============D~~