Of course JT likes anything that costs T2 lots of money in the hopes that it will shut them down.

As for the government sactioned ratings system, I think I speak for everyone here (at least from the US) that that is a terrible idea.

"I also think this is the greatest thing that the industry has ever done to get people like me off their backs…"

*sigh* If only it were true. Manhunt 2 may have an 'AO' label (For now), but this guy keeps annoying the hell out of the industry.

For a lawyer, JT seems awfully ignorant of the Constitution and the concept of precedent.

I honestly don't care what kind of response my next few statements are going to get, as I know what my stance is on game development and censorship (it's my livelihood and passion after all), but here goes:

As much I disagree with Mr. Thompson's opinions and agenda, I really have to admire his usage of something so many Americans take for granted: the freedom to protest, freedom of speech (ironic, I know), and the freedom to crusade against what he believes is wrong and harmful. I strongly believe I will never see eye to eye with Mr. Thompson, because I do not believe it is within the rights of any person or governing body to determine what I am allowed to consume or produce, but Americans are born with the gift of freedom and so few take advantage of this gift or even fight for it.

He will fight to get violent video games banned, and I will fight back against what I consider unjustified policing and censorship. Who knows, maybe our battlefields will cross consider we share the same state as our residence. The moment FL gets involved in game legislation, I will be there urging the rest of my fellow developers and gamers to do what Mr. Thompson is so passionately doing: making our voices be heard, exercising our right to protest, and being active in the politics that are meant to serve the people, not control them.

I would absolutely like to see the US and other countries following the UK’s lead. We don’t have a single law in the books that prevents a mature rated game being sold to a minor… I think eventually it will happen…


No it won't stupid. As long as we have the constitution, and basic human intelligence.

@GameDevMich

I think there's a fine line between making use of a freedom and flat out abusing it.

In other news, the ocean is large and salty. I love his anti-videogame crush on Clinton, didn't she stop associating with him cause he's a nutjob?

"have a national sanction hooking into the Government’s rating system."

What government rating system? Does Thompson realize that there isn't government age/content ratings for anything in the US? I mean, he clearly doesn't realize that plenty of countries other than the UK have government enforced content ratings; but I'd think he'd know by now that the US doesn't due to having such a strong free speech statute.

Jack Thompson?


the name rings a bell but i just cant remember who the guy is.

oh well maybe its because he aint important anymore that i cant remember who he is...

Yeah... yeah, Hilary is on our side now, or at least is willing to listen to our cause. I think we also have Joe Lieberman and David Walsh now, too. That's like all of Jack's friends have jumped onto the "maybe the parents are the answer" bandwagon.

Jack endorsing Hilliary... I wonder how she feels about that?..

"You rate a game and you can’t sell it to people if it falls in a certain category"

Idiot, they refused to rate it at all. Which means adults can't buy it either. That's not rating content, that's censorship.

Jack Thompson only maintains credibility among the ignorant at this point, and perhaps among other fascists who want to see anything they don't personally like banned from the world. Anyone who has followed his career and researched his arguments knows how little water they hold. Unfortunately a lot of people probably don't do their own research about the affects of video games and even what the games contain. Among his implications of racism and "gay sex" in Bully as well as his wild and unsubstantiated theories about the affects of shooters during the developmental years, his arguments actually seem to have merit... until you research them and learn that much of what he says is a flat out lie. It is the people who take his words at face value that we should be concerned for. He may have no legal power anymore, but the industry cannot underestimate his ability to sway public opinion, and more needs to be done to combat his seedy brand of propaganda.

He seems to forget that the game not being rated DOES NOT BAR CHILDREN FROM ACCESSING IT THROUGH MEANS OF IMPORT!

Man should be locked up for sheer stupidity, as he just seems to unload several tonnes of it every time his lips seperate.

@Jabrwock

Then Jack didn't get what he wanted, which is no one able to play the game by any means at all.

@MaskedPixelante

It's not that Hilary or Lieberman are on our side. It's that they've realize that they can get more by working with the ESRB and the industry than by legislating against it. The generic censorship inclined people will see them doing something for the children, and the rest will see them not infringing on their parental rights or wasting their tax dollars on known failures.

I'm still trying to figure out this is news. It is like saying, the sky is blue, or the north pole is cold.

Of course everyone forgets that Rockstar is also capable of producing the game without an ESRB rating, it won't get on a console without one anymore than with an AO, but they have the option.

"The UK does manage ratings much better than the US where you rate a game that’s inappropriate for minors and then they sell it to them anyway. The UK’s definitely got it right. You rate a game and you can’t sell it to people if it falls in a certain category – in other words the rating actually has a sanction, whereas in this county the rating means nothing…"


Okay, just wait one damn minute. At first it sounds as though Jack simply wants to keep hands out of the games of minors. Well I agree with that sentiment, though thats the parents and not the governments job. Then he goes on to say if it falls under a certain rating it can't be sold to PEOPLE, not minors, people. This pretty much sums up John Bruce's stance. He wishes to inhibit the freedoms of taxpaying adults and tell them what they can and cannot watch.

SCREW YOU JOHN. I am an adult. I pay taxes. How DARE you try to make my decisions on my entertainment.


Though on a lighter note I find it humorous that John Bruce goes after cartoonishly violent games like GTA (face it the violence isn't all that realistic), or railing against the ability for modders to remove the blur in the Sims 2 and show bare mannequins, but has no problem with the fact that children can buy the Saw trilogy, Hostel, or any other number of R or unrated movies.

He doesn't understand how the system works does he?
"rate a game that’s inappropriate for minors and then they sell it to them anyway. The UK’s definitely got it right. You rate a game and you can’t sell it to people if it falls in a certain category"
When WE rate a game we do not sell it to minors anyway, the rating is there to stop that. The UK's system of banning means NO ONE can get the game and that disallows people to chose for themselves which is archaic and wrong.

He needs to take Hillary's nutsack out of his mouth. I'm sure she reeeeeealllly wants his endorsement for president.

@robert

Rolling stone ran an article on him and he had a pro-bush sticker on his refrigerator.

Although if he has been following gamepolitics he should know that mitt romney view's on the whole thing are more in tune with Thompson's than Hillary's , although maybe he realizes Hillary has a better chance than Romney, who knows.

Must....resist....urge....grr.....
Since when do retailers sell M rated games to little kids? What happened to PARENTAL responsibilty?

@Jabrwock

i think when Jack takes about the Uk stopping minors from getting games i don't think he is talking about Manhunt2 in particular, but is talking about other 18+ rated games in the UK and laws that the UK has to prevent retailers from selling to minors (if the uk does have those laws, i confuse policies of different countries sometimes)...

Ofcourse, even if that is what JT was refering too he still fails so hard. He completly ignores that fact that whatever different laws and regulations are in place in the UK, minors are STILL getting their hands on 18+ rated games.

Just because a law exists doesn't mean it is being followed, especially if they don't do enough to enforce it... it's like bartenders who sell alcohol to poeple under 21; plenty of them get away with it and only a few ever actually get caught... it's not hard to think of a few lazy store clerks who just don't care to screw checking ID and just sell the game, especially when the chances of the day they do it being the day he was being subjected to the sting...

Furtharmore, The even bigger issue is that while Minors aren't supposed to buy the games themselves, parents STILL buy the games anyway... the high majority of minors in both the US and the Uk get their 18+ rated games through their parents, with their blind consent (buying their kids games whether or not they realize what the game actually is)... Between clerks not bothering to enforce the laws and parents blindly buying the games for their kids, the Uk laws have solved NOTHING!

As I've said before, and I'll say again, whether it is regulated or not is America's concern, but it would HAVE to be done to all media or it would be discrimination.

Oh, and anyone thinking that Jack Thompson wouldn't then use such a rating system as 'evidence' that games are dangerous and go on a sueing spree is under the wrong impression, it's the first thing he would do, as has been pointed out already, his moving goalposts and multiple standards are evidence for that.

I'd like to point out that the laws in the UK are poorly enforced and frankly don't do anything. The UK system should serve as a model why we don't need these kinds of laws. It won't make a difference if Hilary is elected or not because the courts will not allow it. I'm still flabergasted how this idiot got his law liscense given his complete and utter ignorance of the constitution. The UK rating system is a joke. The ESRB isn't perfect but they actually gave the game a rating instead of banning it. Granted Sony and Nintendo won't allow AO rated games on thier systems but it can still be released on the PC.

"We don’t have a single law in the books that prevents a mature rated game being sold to a minor…"

Same thing goes for R-rated movies and music with Explicit Lyrics labels, and yet those sell at a higher rate than M-rated games.

@chris

actually that's not exactly where i was going with that... what i was pointing out is how regulation on even purchasing games is rather useless. Just because their is a law in place does not mean a problem goes away. As MasterAssassin pointed out, the laws are poorly enforced and unless you can afford to pay poeple to make sure clerks are doing the job 24/7, there isn't really any good way to enforce it... This is why i brought up bartending... despite their being a law against selling alcohol to minors, but there are plenty of bartenders that still do it anyway, because their too lazy to enforce it, there is money to be made, and the chances of them getting caught is rather low...

Bringing in Parental responsibility through these regulations alone is also meaningless, because when it comes down to it, many parents either are ignorant and buy the games for their kids, being completly blind to what their buying or falsy believing there is nothing wrong with getting the game, not bother to consider what is best for the child... In the absence of educating parents on video games and ratings, regulation does nothing to stop them... 90% of the kids who would have bought the game themselves will probably be able to get it through their parents since their parents are just plain too ignorant to look into the game (and ofcourse a portion who actually do think their kids are mature enough... but these aren't the kids we need to think about)... so yes their is a benefit of bringing in parental responisibity, but that benifit is countered by parental ignorance/neglect

Overall, the UK's regulation does little to nothign to keep 18+ rated games out of the hands of minors... they are STILL getting them, even if they are not mature enough to play such things...

We don't need regulation, all when need is parently education... if parents were educated and responisble than we would have something stronger than any kind of regulation...

I don't believe that their rating system in the UK is that air tight when it comes to minors getting their hands on. I'm sorry but I just don't understand how their rating system is any different than the ESRB in the US. If someone can elaborate on this for me I'd appreciate it.

Look at it this way, in the Pakeerah case, neither of the boys were 'legally' old enough to own the game that Vaz is complaining about anyway, regardless of the fact the victim owned it.

Regulation just adds to taxes, and it's still down to parents at the end of the day, as has been said, Government regulation will do nothing to alter parents perception of Video games, in fact they will become even more lax in checking on what their child is ingesting because they will simply lean on the government and expect them to do it for them.

GP: "We’re not so sure Thompson is correct about Hillary. Although in the past the NY Senator has been a leading critic of video game content issues - most notably surrounding Hot Coffee - in more recent times she publicly praised the ESRB’s efforts at the retail level."

Are you forgetting that just one year ago, Rick Santorum was supporting the ESRB "Commitment to Parents" thingy? Yet today he's dueling with Romney about who's more censoriffic.

http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/311227.html

There is no doubt in my mind Hillary!™ will be back. It only remains to be seen whether she will make it a campaign issue, or if she'll hide it until she's elected so as not to scare off the youth vote..

Hmm, actually, looks like games are part of her campaign after all. Albeit a minor one for now..

Protecting children against violence and sexual content in the media and studying the impact of electronic media on children's cognitive, social, and physical development.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/family/

Off topic but from msn two parents neglected their children to play online game
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19855372/wid/11915829/

i wonder who didn't see this coming.

@hayabusa75

Actually my statement doesn't come from things you hear in the news, it comes from my own training in bartending (good part time job), of which i only recently got through, so i'm still wet behind the ears. The guys who trained me have great experience and did well to not only on teaching drinks but also protecting ourselves(they told us everything you mentioned). They were the ones that pointed out that while some do check ID and such, there are bartenders that don't... if i recall he also mentioned how a bartender can be in trouble even if it was the other bartender serving that night (hence why i aim to get work at Bars that require tips certification... which they all should, helps protect the people and saves the bar 10% on issurance; no downside there)... fines and how often cops check on bars probably varies from area to area; such as being more slacking in areas where accidents don't happen as often... could my teacher have been exagerating the truth a bit to help hit home his point about the risks that exist in bartending? maybe, i don't know, i lack the experience to be sure... just pointing out that i never meant to attack bartending in general (since i myself hope to enjoy it until i move on to my true career), and that my statements do come from a more reliable source than sensationalist newspapers

@monte':

I see. I think your boss was indeed trying to drive home a point. I do the same thing when I'm training new employees. Well, I'm sure you'll have fun with it. The money's good and the hours, while late, are short. If you ever want to swap stories, meet me in the forums. I've got a million of 'em. =)

I sincerely hope that there will never be a law restricting the sales of M-rated video games to minors.

Enforcement of the ESRB ratings should be handled by the individual companies. Wal-Mart, GameStop, and other major retailers should put forth the effort to strictly enforce policies prohibiting employees from selling M-rated games to minors. While many of these retailers already do have such policies, they aren't doing enough to make sure they're being enforced.

Ok, for the last time, Jack, ESRB RATES games, retailers "sell games to minors". Take your shit the retailers, the ESRB did its job.

I've got a question...is there a statistic about parents that buy their children M-rated games? Whenever I was in EBGames, when the parent would buy their kids M-rated games, the clerk would make sure they understood the rating, and explain what the game actually contains (I still to this day, don't understand why Halo gets an M rating. It could easily get away with a T).

Maybe Thompson would reconsider the effectiveness of censoring protected material after he's been happy slapped by a few hooligans.

"You rate a game and you can’t sell it to people if it falls in a certain category – in other words the rating actually has a sanction, whereas in this county the rating means nothing…"

If you're a DUMBASS that is. Apparently he thinks he's the only person that knows what the ratings mean.

And since Hot Coffee was brought up here too, there's something i wanted to bring up about how JT treated that. It seems to me that he thinks that video games are the only medium of art, expression, or entertainment in the world that has to be done completely right the first time and no edits or deletions from the product can ever be made before sending it out to the public. Producers can edit TV shows, movies, books, drawings and scripts in any way, but if a video game makes something obscene, they can't take it out while its still in development because it's a 'coverup.' Just like Devil Bottles in Banjo-Tooie, i guess. >_>

Seriously, this guy still doesn't know what he's talking about.