Wait, they are afraid the mere presense of decapitations will result in an AO-rating? That's riduculous. I know for a fact the Gears of War and the first Manhunt had decapitations and dismemberment and they still got M-ratings. If a game can get AO for that now, it will just prove the the ESRB has become more reactionary after Manhunt 2. A good ratings board's guidelines should be clear and persistent, and should not be radically altered every time people get upset at the industry.

Heck, at this point, it no longer matters if the ESRB would or wouldn't give an AO rating to more games. The mere specter of that possibility is going to cause developers to tone everything down. I wouldn't be suprised if, eventually, developers start get nervous about putting blood in their game at all. Even if the AO rating wasn't a de facto ban, this would still upset me because, again, lack of consistency.

What is happening to our games?

@Brokenscope & E. Zachary Knight

Thanks for covering my opinion as well. Although I do think it is within a console manufacturer's rights to put not put their name on a title if they don't want to.

Brokenscope covered it very well with the industry developing into areas where PCs can not compete. Else they would have a market for these games, since there is already a unified platform for them out there. That's right folks that what an open source gaming console would get you, a PC running Windows or something like it with all the same bugs.

Really how is that?

@ Everyone Who Thinks that the ESRB bans games by giving them an AO Rating

The ESRB does not ban games. The AO rating was and is not meant to ban a game. It is the console manufacturers that ban the game. It is the retailers that ban the game. The ESRB has no such power. They do not pull the strings of the other organizations and companies. They do their job and supply the information in the form of a rating. What other companies or organizations do with that knowledge is not the ESRB problem.

So don't blame the ESRB for doing their job and supplying these other companies and organizations with the information. If you want to gripe at someone, gripe at the console manufacturers for not liscencing the games and the retailers for not stocking the games. I am sure that if enough people contact the console manufacturers and retailers, then they could be persuaded to change their minds.

I will say this one last time and hope that it sticks with you guys:

The ESRB has never banned a game, nor will they ever. They do not have the power to ban a game.

@Pandas

"1. Draft immediate laws that protect the sale of adult-oriented video games in retailers that sell other forms of adult-oriented entertainment.

2. Destroy licensing agreements between console developers and game developers. A publisher and developer should be able to produce anything, for any console, that they wish.

3. Disband the ESRB and ESA. "

1:So... We need number 1 WHY? You can't force a private enterprise to stock an item they don't want to sell.

2: Sooo how much more money are you willing to spend on your new, completely open console? Please don't expect any type of hardware support or anykind of updates on the firmware. Be prepared for windows like DRM and Anti Piracy measures. Enjoy your completely unmoderated online, now with even more cheaters, hackers, and aimbots. Don't expect any kind of unified development kit, heck don't expect a dev kit of any kind anymore. Thats going to end really well.

3: Awesome, then we can really bitch when a law goes through and no one files suit against the state and then games do get banned. Wow your plan kicks 20 kinds of ass!


I have a better plan. Maybe the developers shouldn't have hurt the PC market by constantly developing titles that didn't scale down well to weaker hardware. Maybe they need to grow some collective balls and tell the big 3 console makers to fuck off and license AO games. Maybe they need to work with the ESRB to define a new ratings label to denote Adult Violence. Maybe they need to tell the ERA to stop being fucking stupid and sell AO games.

Oh sorry I forgot, its much simpler to blame the ESRB for following guidelines they agreed to.

Just out of curiosity, don't we tend to allow VIOLENT games to be rated when other markets outight ban them or refuse classification?

DAMN CHILDREN!!!!!!! Why must we censor games for them?????

So, the actions of companies make us ashamed to be Americans?

Awesome, I was looking for a new source of unwarranted guilt.

Hit the button too early.

This makes me absolutely ashamed to be an american, when our most sacred right, freedom of speech and expression, is circumvented because some seem to believe that pixels or polygons on a TV screen are worse than murder one, child molestation, drug trafficking, basically worse than every real crime combined.

You could see this coming after the Manhunt 2 fiasco, developers now in a panic to make sure their latest product doesn't receive the terrible AO rating (what's the point of having a rating that no-one can use). I'm sure here in the UK we'll still get the censored versions too, even though we have our own AO rating (or 18 as it's openly called), yet our AO rating is acceptable by Nintendo and Sony so it's okay (now that's confusing).

I know the ESRB is being blamed for this (having the AO rating) but surely it's the console manufacturers that are dictating what is and isn't released with their 'we don't allow AO games on our systems' line. Someone needs to inform Sony and Nintendo that people over 17 play their games and buy their consoles...

Welcome to the institution for cultural and artistic censorship. Before you place the product of your intellectual and artistic "freedom" on the table for examination, I must request that you first ask yourself -- "what about the children?" As you know, the strong wings of liberty must always extent to muff out any content that might, somehow, filter down to the little ones. Never mind incompetent parenting -- or the double standards that exist all throughout contemporary society (remember folks, force those little ones to attend religious insitutions and revere religious texts before they can read) -- the evil of video games must be subjected to a unique form of censorship.

Even though the definition of obscenity reeks of relativism and uncertainty, we have worked hard to ensure that only violent TV programs, movies, literature, and art remain free of censorship and easily avaliable for consumption. Video games are a unique evil that must be weeded out. Since the subtle communist propagando introduced within the "Super Mario Brothers" franchise, video games have directly contributed to the moral decay of society. Let us utilize our friendly ESA-sponsored "rating system" to create a "safety-net" that effectively bans content that only some consumers -- who are not even exposed to such products -- morally oppose. Let us use our faith-based lobbying power, and abuse trial lawyers and tax-payer dollars, to crush the freedom of expression in our great nation. Continue supporting the ESRB and ESA. May the light of democracy forever protect our god-fearing land.

...Yeah, I've just about had it with this sick and disgusting industry. Gamers are exposed to the most regressive, static, franchised, and "family friendly" trash in the multi-media market. And we can thank the traitors at the ESA, the retarded Bible-Belt Soccer moms who can't raise their own kids, and a handful of power-hungry politicans for completely effing over the potential for games to become a true artistic medium.

1. Draft immediate laws that protect the sale of adult-oriented video games in retailers that sell other forms of adult-oriented enterainment.

2. Destroy licensing agreements between console developers and game developers. A publisher and developer should be able to produce anything, for any console, that they wish.

3. Disband the ESRB and ESA.

I'm sure this isn't really a big deal, but I don't think I like what the ESRB has become. Basically, if a game is given an AO rating it can never be sold. Technically it could be released online, or sold anywhere that cares to stock it. But realistically it's the kiss of death for a game at retail. The ESRB is dictating what I am allowed to purchase. They are the ones that decide what is appropriate for me, even though I am an adult. I think that ideally the ratings should be used as guidlines, giving you some idea of what content to expect. It's a great tool for parents, and it keeps a dishonest publisher from marketing a game for children that was developed with adults in mind. But instead they are thought of as rules that are set in stone. AO wasn't originally intended to kill games outright, but store policies and political pressures have made this so. Because of this I think the ESRB has a bit too much power in deciding what can and can't be sold.

The Baron
Not really look at movies 20 or 30 years ago all forms of media go threw it but some like comics get their knees removed for a decade or more.

When will change come that is the question because ti must come because time waits for none.

AO it K'o'ed for now with the conversivies afire nows not the time to rebuild the adult level of gaming,can anyone think when that time will be? prehaps after the election when the spotlight has shifted?

Its obvious games will go threw a movie like growing faze its as obvious that AO is the new X and games need a real NC17 level but when will it come?

@Tom

Gamers need to stand up? Well then I suggest you contact Hal Halpin of the ESA and ask him why he has not yet stood up for the consumers on this issue.

What about developers? Why isn't the IGDA raising this issue? Why should the gamers fight the battle for the consumers? Let me restate that, why should gamers, most of whom won't give a flying fuck about the fact that condemned is changing its rating, do this? Hell most of them can't be bothered to go beyond "Jack Thompson is a Douche bag" before their 5 second attention span jumps back to halo, WoW, or what ever shitty sports game EA craps out next. Why should they care? Go find a way to convince them to care, because most of them don't give a fuck. Most of them just want to play the game they are playing at the moment.

Guess what else. Gamers can bitch all they want, if the developers don't grow some fucking balls first though it won't matter much, since I seriously doubt most gamers would stop buying games because "The artists are being kept down!!!!". They are going to play what ever is put infront of them if its what is cool.

Stop shifting the weight off the developers who made this situation in the first place. They are the ones who bear most of the blame. If its that important they need to fight there own fucking battles. Until then they don't deserve one fucking iota of sympathy.

The ESRB exists to rate games, regardless of the result of their rating. They should not bend to political pressure and rate a game incorrectly and they should not bow to industry pressure to give a game a lighter rating.

They have far more weight than we do and they should do the work.

There shouldn't be an AO rating. Don't say the ESRB is just "doing it's job" when the entire purpose of the rating is to give it the kiss of death. MPAA anyone?

Be honest, there is now level of maturity difference that would prevent a 17 year old and an 18 year old. It's not magic OH NOW I AM 18 I CAN PLAY THESE GAMES SAFELY, it's putting it on the same pedestal as obscenity and pornography

YOU FOOLS, PEOPLE LIKE JACK THOMPSON HAVE WON THIS BATTLE WITH YOUR SYCOPHANT ALLEGIANCE TO THE ESRB!


See This Film Is Not Yet Rated and maybe you guys won't blindly and foolishly support the treachery of the ESA and ESRB.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0493459/

well as long as condemned two is nice and violent then i'll be happy

@ E. Zachary Knight

I'm not saying that the ESRB is soley to blame for any of this. But circumstances have given the ESRB the ability to keep a game from being sold. The ESRB was never intended to have this power, and technically they do not. But when they gave Manhunt 2 the AO rating they knew it would never make it to shelves. I'm just saying that I don't like what the ESRB has morphed into.

I do think this is partially the ESRB's fault. Condemned 2 and Manhunt not so much, but in the case of Indigo Prophecy and San Andreas the sex scenes were quite tame compared to a lot of R movies. I don't really think they're in line with community standards there.

Ugh, this seems to be the bad effects of the AO rating that Manhunt 2 got along. ****ing soccer moms, politicians and such. They need to all keep their noses out of our business.

I'm sick of the children, children have their games, and adults have their own games, and the politicians and soccer moms don't need to say what adults can play.

@ Brokenscope

I think he means the ones that have failed. As in he is saying that they were influenced by the threat of legislation.

Personnally, I would not feel threatened by something that I know is wrong and has been proven wrong multiple time, but there are people who have been.

That sucks. But it's not the ESRB fault, and even if there was a special rating to denote adult violence, retailers would treat it the same way as the current AO rating, and console developers too. We have a clear chilling effect going on here, all because of the stupid amount of laws to restrict the sale of games, and the outcry of soccer moms and stupid politicians. Because of that, neither the retailers nor the console developers want to take the heat of accusations that always come with the more controversial games.

For instance, Indigo Prophecy and the cut sex scenes that were mentioned here. I didn't play the game, but I can imagine those scenes wouldn't be any different than equivalent scenes in a blockbuster movie. Yet it's the evil video games, they must not influence the minds of the children (or anyone for that matter), so it can't have such "obscene" stuff. So, guys, if you want to smack down on something, get the club and aim for the console devs and retailers. They gotta grow a pair and stop bowing to this stupid double standart, so we can have games with the freedom we see in movies, books, plays, and all the other kinds of media.