There is a difference though between Public Free Speech and Censorship.

I understand that Free Speech on a Confrontational Public level will offend people, and thus precautions must be taken. People should never be directly harassed by someone then protected under law.

However.

Those who wish to exercise their opinions should be allowed to do so via their own limited medium. Websites, Newspapers, Group Meetings ... These are places where they should be protected by law to exercise their beliefs, no matter how heinous they may seem to you.

This carries over to protect people who wish to publish things ... Books, Movies, Music, Games, etc. There should be no-one who can say "No. You can not publish that".

Those decisions should lie with the Publishers themsevels, the Retailers who stock the product and the customer who has the biggest saying power of all.

[...] Rockstar and Take-Two are appealing to BBFC to get the game rated in the U.K. GamePolitics.com

The ESRB needs to take the lead and not be in the pockets of polis console makers or consumers they need to do the ebst they can to not block media to adults but rate them to keep them out of the hands of kids,its simple the ESRB needs to put its foot down.


1.Either the make a agreement to not rate games based on sex for 5 years if the industry will accept AO as a working NC17 level for games and console makers agree not to interfere with the approval process.(retail can still snub it as they see fit)

2.Create a M18 level and warn console makers that if they interfere with it they will lose their membership in the ESRB,with M18 in place content with extra violence can go here,they can even black box the M18 games (have them wraped in black plastic with the name and M18 on the front for 2 years) ,retail can of coarse snub it but with the temporary "black box" approach they should embrace it more than AO.

24 = 34, I wish it was still 24.....

E. Zachary Knight,

NTSC


Andrew Eisen

@father Time

i could be mistaken as i'm no expert, but i believe a European copy would only work if played in HD, this is due to the PAL standard that Europe uses that a slightly higher resolution then the standard def TVs register

(joystick has this in regards to part of the issue http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/07/ps3-is-region-free-but-theres-a-hi-def...)

should U.K get the uncensored version how much would it costs to get it imported from there, or would it not work on a game system built for the U.S.?

I think it's really worth noting that in the UK there is no right to free speech. If the BBFC refuses to rate somthing then there we go, it becomes effectively silcenced. I think that video games are still brushed as somthing that children play which is a stigmata that needs to be overcome. After the whole Manhunt 1 incident the name manhunt its self became tainted with the thought of children killing each over to copycat the actions. The simple truth is that the BBFC is acting like Big Brother and choosing what adults may and may not see. Then again this is the same BBFC that allowed Saw 3 and Hostel through so come to think of it they must of seen somthing that was so bad that it could not be classified.

E. Zachary Knight/Broken Scope

If you "join" the ESRB you are a "member" because you have "rules" to follow in order for them to rate your games.

In the end it is that "simple", however doing something about the AO fiasco is far from simple,all I can do is use my half wit thoughts to start a new line of conversation over how to fix things.

@Orangekrush:

Nope, thats the difference between the US and the UK. Personally if someone wants to stand outside a funeral waving a banner saying that the dead soldier deserved to die, then I want those people locked up for public disorder offences. If a group of sickos want to try and hold a rally supporting paedophila, then i'd like them to be arrested for encouraging an illegal activity. If I see someone make a game where you fly a plane into the world trade, then I want my industry to be responsible enough to say 'We're not publishing this shit'.

Its not about turning back time, its about enjoying the freedoms we do enjoy and not trying to push further and rip away every last measure of control and restraint. Sometimes those restraints are there for a reason.

It really struck me in the threads about MH2 how many people cared more about having a chance to play a sensationalist game and didnt give a damn about the potential damage such a game could do to the industry they constantly claim to love and want to protect. In a year where the anti-game lobby has grown ever more vocal, with prominant politicians and media figures speaking out against gaming, do you really think this is the time to start trying to shock?

@ Phantom

I'm British, and I still think it's a travisty. I hated the BBFC before now for bits they've cut out of movies, but this just takes it to a whole new extreme.

Zippy.... No one is an ESRB member. They are a seperate org that rates games on a contractual basis.

They have an 18+ category right? If Saw and Hostel get 18+, why not let the same adult consumers make their decision regarding Manhunt 2.

For the record I'm not interested in the above titles.

The fellow pictured doesn't seem like the type to be sympathetic to Manhunt 2's plight...but then again maybe my brain is still in stereotyping mode after reading all the RE5 comments.

@E. Zachary Knight:

There was some fighting a few years back about VAC's overturning BBFC rulings, and the extent to which the Home Office was interfering in BBFC policy, but I cant find any cases over the last few years of significant VAC reversals (not saying there arent any). A lot is probably going to depend on whats in the game. If the rumours about there being a rape scene are true, then Rockstar could well be onto a loser, as the rules on sexual violence are far tougher than in other areas.

As for the rating issue, I dont particularly agree with you. I think the free speech argument tends to be overplayed in these cases. Whilst the idea of censorship does send a chill down the spine, im not particularly happy about the idea of a whole underbelly of professionally developed games coming out that push each other further and further to test how much sick violence they can cram into their games. It could so easily become the whole 'horror film vs video nasty' thing all over again, and we really dont need that crap right now.


@GameDevMich:

I can only presume they'll argue on the grounds of creative freedom and draw direct parallels to movies. Cant see them getting anywhere to be honest, as with Manhunt 2 as their test case (going on what has been seen of the game so far) they're going to struggle to convince anyone that they had some deep creative vision in mind.

I think in time people are going to have to wake up to the idea that we cant simple say 'Saw has someone getting their eyeball melted by a blowtorch, so why cant we do it?!'. Being an interactive industry carries some extra responsiblities, and I reckon its better if we shoulder them and choose our battles carefully. Rockstar are doing us nothing but damage at the moment with their 'anything should go' approach.

I love anything vintage, especially old toys and cars.