Dr. Phil Taping Video Game Violence Episode
Dr. Phil Taping Video Game Violence Episode
August 14, 2007
Will Dr. Phil be nasty or nice to video games?GamePolitics has learned that the popular TV shrink is taping an episode about game violence on Thursday.
Readers may recall that just one day after the Virginia Tech massacre, Dr. Phil made comments on the Larry King show which seemed to indicate a belief that violent games played a role in the killings:
LARRY KING: Why, though - OK, you want to kill someone, you’re crazed, you’re a little nuts, girlfriend drops you, why do you kill innocent people?…
DR. PHIL: ...the problem is we are programming these people as a society. You cannot tell me - common sense tells you that if these kids are playing video games, where they’re on a mass killing spree in a video game, it’s glamorized on the big screen, it’s become part of the fiber of our society. You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath or someone suffering from mental illness and add in a dose of rage, the suggestibility is too high.
And we’re going to have to start dealing with that. We’re going to have to start addressing those issues and recognizing that the mass murders of tomorrow are the children of today that are being programmed with this massive violence overdose.
As of this point, we don't know when the video game themed episode will air or who Dr. Phil's guests will be. There was some talk with the show's producer that ECA president Hal Halpin would appear. However, we've heard that Dr. Phil has instead lined up a "game violence specialist."
Uh-oh...
Comments
Ohhhhh, so the disappearing comments were your doing. And here I thought I did something that pissed you off and caused you to ban me. Glad to see I haven't joined that boat yet.
Also, I think the Dr. Phil is a quack and doesn't deserve to be a psychologist or whatever he is, nor should he have a tv show.
But then again, if this "Game violence specialist" is who we think it might be, and they invite on Hal Halpin as well...... It will be a TIVO moment for sure.
Anyone who's actually PLAYED a video game knows that points are no longer the bragging tools they once were.
Lost all of the comments here while doing a quick edit..
:-(
If Jacky shows his ugly face on the program: You gotta chug 6 beers.
Just shows his boundless ignorance.
Seems appropriate since Dr. Phil is as qualified a shrink as JT is as qualified a lawyer.
so true, I suggested it before that a statistician compare findings to try and prove out cause but comaring:
Gamer population/shootings that have some tenusous link to games (gamerviolence occuance)
AGAINST
normal violence occurance
(total population/all shootings)
Then youd have some statistical backing for whether games increase or decrease the chances of such horrible events.
Suppose that there is a correlation between consumption of media violence and propensity for real-world violence. (That's media violence, not just game violence, and I don't claim that there is any such correlation - I think the jury's still out on that one.)
Anyhow, presume that the correlation exists. Without knowing anything else, causality can work in one of four ways:
1) Consuming media violence causes one to be violent. (A causes B.)
2) Being violent causes one to prefer violent media. (B causes A.)
3) Some external influence causes one to have a preference for both media violence and real world violence. (C causes both A and B.)
4) There is no causal link - just a random coincidence.
Without a more thorough study it's impossible to tell which is the case. Rigorous scientists are very clear on this point - correlation does not imply causation. Unfortunately, not everyone is clear on this point and unscrupulous scientists can drum up support by showing off a correlation as cause.
"Father Time; Doesn’t common sense tell us that correlation DOES equal causation?"
No; no it really doesn't, science is in fact quite adamant on that point. Did you know there is a distinct correlation between ice-cream sales and murder rates; they both peak and ebb at the same time of year, on the same days. This is because of the heat; not because ice-cream makes people murderers. Seriously look it up.
I just keep out of it. I'm almost certain that it's impossible to convince someone, who believes this, of anything else. Seriously, has anyone ever convinced someone non-scientific who was FIRMLY of the belief that violence is caused by video games otherwise?
Trying to evade the spam filter...
I think most people, even here, agree that media has affects on people. The issue is one of degree. The surgeon general put media violence somewhere around eleventh on his list of issues that cause youth violence. The ones before it should be addressed well before.
Fuckin' massacre chaser.
One more thing
we can dismiss their arguments because it's the same old song and dance they've pulled throughout history. First it was rock and roll causing juvenille violence, next it was comic books, then it was dungeons and dragons and now it is video games.
I don't believe anyone here has ever said media has no effect on people. Its always been people asking for the same rules that apply to movies/books to be applied to other media like video games.
Not to mention that being desensitized to violence really doesn't say much. What exactly are you implying when you say that? That being desensitized to violence makes you more likely to do violence or less or neither? As for correlative evidence being more aggressive does not make you more violent. You confuse the two. Most studies I've read have noted a increase in aggression not violence two entirely different things.
I'm going to dismiss your argument based on the fact you cited nothing and are just spouting your opinions. So, yes we've dismissed their arguments because they are flawed and contain either no factual information or they twist what the studies say to fit their agenda.
O, and when you watch Dr. phil make sure he cites his information and his expert is an actual expert. Not a media dubbed expert. Common sense isn't always as common as people would like to believe.
How do you keep getting published in what feels like a Chinese Newspaper. Seriously, this entire website is giving me the FYAD response.
I just keep out of it. I'm almost certain that it's impossible to convince someone, who believes this, of anything else. Seriously, has anyone ever convinced someone non-scientific who was FIRMLY of the belief that violence is caused by video games otherwise?
A few of my 'more tasteless' comments in regards to the spam filter didn't get posted. /cry
Um, on the subject at hand... I dunno, he's not really a doctor? So what does he know? And why does the great unwashed listen to him?
One point that got erased here was that gamerdad said he got a call from "Dr." Phil's producers but they quickly balked when they found out he would not take an anti-game stance.
Funny, I didn't know Phil was on FOX... :P
Whoa, whoa, whoa, there sparky. No.
Violent media, or imagery, can desensitize people to more violent media or imagery. There have been no cross correlations between violent media and real life violence.
A person can watch 300 over and over and over, which can make them desensitized to say, watching Saving Private Ryan (and give them a warped sense of history), but then still get light-headed at the sight of real blood (say, a nosebleed).
Our brains distinguish between fantasy and reality from a young age (at least with the slightest bit of influence of a parental figure[s]). People who can't are the vast minority.
"One thing that I think we need to do is stop saying that media has no effect on people. We all know that’s a load of horse hockey."
Oh really all of us and a some professionals say otherwise
"Violent media CAN desensitize people to violence."
Assuming that you don't realize that the violence is fictional then sure it can. Also being in the military desensitizes peopole to violence, there's no question about that, but do we see a lot of veterans going on killing sprees?
"We also know that there is correlative evidence to violent behaviour and the consumption of violent media."
Common sense 101 tells us that that correlation does not equal causation so that correlative evidence is essentially horse spit.
There is no civil discourse, cause dr Dave has a black sharpie in one hand and his dick in the other and he's saying "Look'it me! I'm putting an end to civil discourse. Flag Flag Flag." The last thing we need is a filter with massive delusions of grandeur.
One thing that I think we need to do is stop saying that media has no effect on people. We all know that's a load of horse hockey. Violent media CAN desensitize people to violence. We also know that there is correlative evidence to violent behaviour and the consumption of violent media. Once those points are acknowledged and aggreed upon real, common sense solutions can be worked out.
Dismissing any argument other than our own out of hand does nothing but hinder civil discourse.
I want to TiVo this when I get the chance. Something I would like to point out in the discussion is that the number of people who grew up playing violent videogames is huge. I mean REALLY huge. I don't think I would be selling it short to guess in the tens of millions (again, just a guess).
Out of all of those people, how many have gone on a murderous rampage?
What would you make that percentage out to be? %0.0001 or something?
I think that the best defense of the whole "violent videogames" debate WOULDN'T be a psychiatrist, it would be a statistician. The numbers disprove what the rating mongers are trying to prove.
In fact, youth violence is on the decline. Why? Because videogames teach a number of things that previous generation couldn't learn in the same way:
1. Teamwork
2. Problem Solving
3. Consequences
4. Persistance
5. Patience
6. How to constructively channel your emotions
Earlier generation COULD learn these, but not as easily as a lot of games can hammer it into you.
echoing what I said before so that I don't look weird.
I can't believe people take this Dr. Phil guy seriously. He sits on a couch, talks to people, and gives them common sense advice. I could do that! But, apparently, if Oprah endores them, they must be more qualified than us mere mortals. Sad people can't think for themselves.
quick try to convince her otherwise before all hope is lost.
Anyway I live near los angeles and i semi-wish i could go there and call out the good doctor on the half-truths he's likely to continue to spout. Unfortunately I may be too young to enter and they may edit out whatever i say to him.
Have you brought up to this woman that no studies have drawn a causality between games and real world violence? Conversations like that can be fun. If you go in with facts and all she has is her own personal opinions on the matter and knee jerks reactions it will likely end with her raising her voice, as if you can't be right you may as well be wrong loudly. It can be quite amusing.
Have you brought up to this woman that no studies have drawn a causality between games and real world violence? Conversations like that can be fun. If you go in with facts and all she has is her own personal opinions on the matter and knee jerks reactions it will likely end with her raising her voice, as if you can't be right you may as well be wrong loudly.
quick try to convince her otherwise before all hope is lost.
Anyway I live near L.A. and i semi-wish i could go there and call out the good doctor on the half-truths he's likely to continue to spout. Unfortunately I may be too young to enter and they may edit out whatever i say to him.
Late this morning, we lost some posts and others were thrown into the maws of the filter. I have recovered all of those that I could find and deactivated SK2, reactivating Akismet, another filter, instead.
More info as it comes my way...
I'll just need an airdate and a time.
"Game violence specialist"... lol. Only Dr. Phil...
Heh cant wait for the "game violance specalist" to proclaim "THE ECA IS THE BRAND OF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY, THE FLORADA BAR HATES ME BECAUSE I AM RELIGIOUS!"
I just dont get it, how does Dr. Phil's common sense tell him; "Well those kids in school shootings couldnt possibly be insane, lets blame video games!!!!11twelveopra
What?
I second Zigs's, "What?"
There is no evidence Jack Thompson is involved, and GP only mentioned that the ECA was approached - not scheduled to appear.
I guess this would be clearer had all of the relevant posts not been WTFPWNED.
Um, well you see the problem with psychopaths are... they are psychopaths. Do you really think that if they aren't exposed to violent media they will be normal upstanding citizens? I mean they are psychopaths for crying out loud.
I put up a respectable, compelling story. It would be pretty slick if they decided to have my on the show.
@ phantomdata
To have proof you can NEVER claim common sense, even for something as simple as claiming corrolation equals causation. It's just not how scientific method works. How the general public thinks is a different matter though. But, David Walsh would laugh at anyone who tried to spout that off as proof.
Coming back to Dr. Phil, he does have a doctorate in psychology. The degree is one thing, but whether or not he's licensed, I haven't been able to find. But who needs a license to host a talk show?
If he does have He Who Shall Not Be Named To Avoid The Filter (say that five times fast) on this show, I'm not sure whether or not it'll shoot the topic in the foot. Personally I'm hoping for someone more reasonable like David Walsh.
Honestly, the growing research doesn't look to be in our favor. A study I found recently found that people who drove soon after playing racing games were more likely to drive faster or speed. Now, I realize there's a difference between speeding and violence, but it's still proof that video games can have an impact on real world actions.
A lot of opponents will cite this as proof. "He" most definitely would if he knew about it. He even cites his own unproven statements as proof.
There are entirely too many factors to consider, but most people try to make it black and white. To Dr. Phil's credit, he did mention already present mental instability. That's one factor. One I never hear considered is individuals being attracted to violent media because they're already violent. That is untouched research as far as I can find.
As for the instability factor, there are so many things that could be considered. Some of the more commonly known mental illnesses, such as bipolar, schizophrenia, and ODD, can have components of violence built in. Anxiety disorders commonly involve issues of control, which violence is generally accepted as a form of. Think war, corporal punishment, and rape for more generalized types of violent control. The list of instabilities goes on and on.
The final way I look at it? As long as there's a market for it, it'll exist. And that's just a general belief. Historically, no one has been able to get rid of anything there's a market for. Granted, it's usually things accepted as having a major negative impact, but many times because they're misunderstood. Maybe that's not the best reason for games to be around, but I take comfort in the notion that even if we don't win on the issue, we'll still have games.
Man that sounds bad...
Wait, would going on Dr. Phil count as a psych evaluation?
Uh-oh indeed...
Lots of people who recently purchased ice cream cones killed lots of other people. Ban ice cream cones. Bunches of Muslims murdered bunches of Americans - ban all Muslims and 40oz liquid containers. The general public uses common sense, not the scientific method. That was my point. I in no way, shape or form believe that correlation equals causation. Hence my bit about pirates. You did read the whole comment - right? Ramen.
Key word there is legitimate. I have no idea if psychology requires any of this.
You must not have been through airport security recently, both those things are banned.
The spam filter is gone, fyi, he switched it off. Akismet will still take you out if you happen to be Nigerian and are interested in sending me a check but require more information first.
When they see a graph that shows increasing militant Muslim activity and increasing sales of turbans, the general, uneducated public (when I say uneducated, I mean uneducated statistically) will assume that there is a causative relation between the two - maybe turbans inspire Muslims to be terrorists, or more terrorists are purchasing turbans. That's why in The Simpsons, they say, "The pie graph does not lie!"
When they show these graphs on TV or other mediums, it does not have a caption that says, "This is not a causative relationship." On TV, they will say, "As X rises, Y also rises." This is interpreted by the public as "X causes Y, so when X rises, Y will rise."
This has been How to BS with Statistics 101.
So, anyway... building on my second comment regarding ze lady in my office who believes that video games provoke violence... I'm pretty sure that Dr. Phil will have almost no direct impact on our community. His viewers already believe that video games are the devil and that the Internet is the anti-christ. I'd wager somewhere around 85% of his (usual) viewership to fall into that category.
These people, who are already convinced, are unable to be convinced of anything else - and as such Dr. Phil will not "re-enforce" their belief because there is no further hardening to be done to their arguments or beliefs. I'm almost inclined to believe that these people would have formed their beliefs totally independent of the current hostile-to-gamers climate.
So, the remaining 15% of his viewers are either on the fence or believe that video games do not cause violence. These are people who have not already been swayed by mass media. This means that they're probably resistant to this kind of illogical argument and won't be convinced by Dr. Phil anyway.
What Dr. Phil might be able to do, however, is attempt to call these zealots into action. I do kind of worry that it will bring a boil to the issue and remind these people that they don't like us and think we are destroying their world of cupcakes and butterflies.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to watch once this gets leaked to the Intertubes.
Am I the only one who thinks this sentence is a little weird? Larry states that the people want to kill someone, but then he questions why would someone who wants to kill someone kill someone.
I mean it really sounds like Larry King and everybody else in on the ban games bandwagon really thinks that crazy murderers won't kill without the influence of a game, though they will still want to kill and be psychopaths.
Do they Think that Klebold and Harris would have been choir boys without games? That they wouldn't be mental cases? I hardly see that as possible.
Maybe these psychopaths are killing people because, and I know this is crazy, because they are psychopaths.
Subjective, for one. Take that 3d Noah's Ark game built in the Wolf3d engine for SNES. It plays like a traditional (old ass) fps, but you can't really say you "get points for killing people."
It's Nintendo, for two. Most of their first party games have you playing tennis or bowling, which is hardly killing people.
Or were you just being ironic?
Actually, we know quite a bit about how video games factored in to Harris and Klebold. They most likely used games like Doom to set aside aggression and (some theorize) being barred from their games set them into active planning for their attack.
Harris was a psychopath, and Klebold was his bitch. No amount of outside tinkering would have been able to control Harris, he was doomed from birth. Klebold, on the other hand, would most likely have not carried out an attack without Harris's manipulation.
You know what makes people violent? Other people.
Incidentally, in response to Zigs question, in order to be a practicing psychologists, there's a required continuing education test as a minimum and some states may require a course be taken to keep up with the most current research to maintain one's license to practice. Dr. Phil probably does not have to do this since he has not actively practiced clinically psychology in almost 20 years. I'm not sure whether his forensic psychological consulting would have required continuing education or not. Regardless, it may be worse if he is participating in the continuing education and continues to spout complete drivel instead. Although I suppose it is drivel that gets good ratings, which I guess is good for him, but not for those who are on the receiving end.
I got a call yesterday, and they decided to take the show in a different direction, with the focuse on role-playing game addiction. They have a girl who has that problem.
Look, I'm giving you the straight scoop here, so knock off the flaming at least in response to this. Dr. Phil's people were very nice, very professional, and quite enthusiastic. Of course, Dr. Phil was spot-on after V-Tech, given the link to video game play by Cho substantiated by the New York Times and the Washington Post (you won't read about that here).
Gee, while I have your attention, I would solicit prayer for Norm Kent, who has spent some of the last 20 years going after me. He had serious brain surgery yesterday, and the prognosis is not known. Norm has always had the courage to put his name on attacks against me, and you all should take note of that courage.
Norm is my enemy, make no mistake about that, which is why I pray for him. I pray for his salvation in Jesus Christ.
Finally, I'm thrilled to report that the US District Court his going to have a hearing next Thursday on my motion for a preliminary injunction against The Florida Bar, to shut down The Bar's assault upon my constitutional rights. That's a start. I'll let you know what happens, through Dennis, which means it probably won't get reported correctly.
Best, Jack Thompson
Addiction is bad.
Like being addicted to sports.
People die in sports! And its not even those nasty violent ones.
Figure skaters! They are so addicted to getting first prize they cap each other in the knee caps!
And while your going to protect your freedom of speech, please shut down these gamers freedom. Even if they dress up in barbarin out fits and paint thier faces blue, i bet you can take thier freedom.
Marry me! kathxbye!
I find it funny how jack wants to protect his rights, but then turns around and says that we have no rights cause we are gamers.
It would also greatly help our cause to stop being so knee-jerk everytime someone questions the industry. All that kind of reaction shows is that we aren't people to be taken seriously.
JT...is it at all possible that there were other, outside influences that caused the unfortunate situation at V-tech? Perhaps the break up with his girlfriend? Or something along those lines?
I mean, if you think video games make violent killers...then why have I not commited a crime? Any crime? Other then speeding.
Please JT, I'd like to know.
You mean the link that was categorically denied by everyone who ever crossed his path at VT?
"I’m thrilled to report that the US District Court his going to have a hearing next Thursday on my motion for a preliminary injunction against The Florida Bar, to shut down The Bar’s assault upon my constitutional rights."
You're in no position to complain, considering you spend every waking hour trying to take away our rights.
"I’ll let you know what happens, through Dennis, which means it probably won’t get reported correctly."
Sorry, but Dennis isn't the one who only opens his lips wide enough to lie through his teeth.
...not sure I know how to take that last sentence. ???
I'm going to take a wild guess at it and say they are referring to John Bruce's constant claims that you are not a "true journalist" and how he constantly implies that you lie to us.
They may be throwing back in John Bruce's face his own claims against you.
Or at least that's how I take it.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software