I thought they wanted to relieve traumatic stress from soldiers in Iraq. Not make it worst...

Just as a curiosity, I wonder if the Justice Dept. would have done the same if it were the Left Behind books, instead of the game.

I'm sure military folks online could tell us what kind of "entertainment" is available over there.

I'm not too familiar with military life and work. But, from my perspective, when you work for the military, it isn't the same as a 9-5 job where you're at work from 9am-5pm, and "off the clock" the rest of the time. It's a lot more complicated than that for military folk. But I would think those who are out of country are "on the clock" 24-7, much like a business person who goes overseas for a conference or meeting.

So what I'm wondering is, do the soldiers really have computers for personal use with video/computer games on them or are the computers that they may have treated as "business" machines, limited to the entertainment they are allowed.

I ask all this in regards to potential Free Speech issues. If you've read my posts for any length of time, you know I don't dictate what should or should not be appropriate content in games for other individuals to play. If the games were Tetris (major commercial title), GTA (major commercial title), or even Ethnic Cleansing (Independant commercial title), this issue for me would be along the Free Speech Rights of the soldiers to have ANY game, not any specific game.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Isn't it curious that Osama Bin Laden called US the Christians that convert or kill, seeing his record...

@ Jack Thompson

I, uh... agree... with you.

I feel dirty.

"The people who made it should be sent oversees and not allowed to come back. The game is hurtful and it is absurd. Jack Thompson"

I agree that the game is absurd. And I don't believe that sending it overseas would be wise as it would only serve to impassion our enemies against us and prove that this is some kind of religious war.

Although I disagree with the game I support the creators write to make it. The people who should be sent overseas, to freedom impaired countries such as China are those people who are trying to do away with our freedoms and make us like said freedom impaired countries. For example people such as you Jack.

@Jack Thompson, Attorney

Funnily enough Jack, I agree with you on this one. Yes, the game was a colossal failure, and yes, it does completely contradict religious teachings

A game like this would not help the situation in Iraq.

I have to agree with all said above.

@ Mr. John Bruce Thompson
Careful with prideful statements like, "I was right, again." It is not good for the soul.

Hmm. In Left Behind, did you have to kill people who didn't convert? If not, then such a thing would be comparable to killing hookers in GTA. You don't have to, but you can.

Careful with the statements there, kids. ^^;

These individuals should be allowed to make the game however they wish be it accurate or not. They should be allowed to donate games to military over seas.

That being said I do not like the game. Its pretty terrible. I don't like the message of the game.

Every time Jack speaks its clear he doesn't like freedom.

"The people who made it should be sent overseas and not allowed to come back"

Are you kidding me? This statement alone shows how much you hate freedom. Just because someone does something you don't agree with you wish to eject them from the country. This country is supposed to be free. We are supposed to be able to do what we wish without fear of being exiled. This statement is infinitely more absurd than any other you've ever made.

Read the constitution. Try to understand the meaning of the words 'Freedom' and 'Liberty'. Then try to apply those ideas to your theories.

Why would one wish to take freedom away from his fellow Americans? This is exactly why I don't care much about the bogus "terrorist hate us for our freedoms" BS. Because we already have American citizens hating America for what little freedoms we have left.

Forget about the content for a moment, the game has been described as unplayable, buggy, and ugly as hell. We torture our troops alot, Bush is a Christian and believes in suffering to get closer to god, but I think that this game would be abu-grab-ass style torture. Totally inhumane.

RE: Zigs

Um, i'm pretty sure most Christians don't believe in suffering in order to get closer to god (even the president), but I agree with you on sending quality games to the troops.

I mean is it really so hard to send the brave men and women over seas Bioshock or Madden 08?

Question. I know it's based off the book but you know how sometimes cross media is not always the same (ex:Movie/Games don't mix well.)

Does the BOOK give off a similer message of Convert of die?

@LightWarrior
I know the Bible does, what with the whole 'convert or burn in hell' thing

im sorry but i have to side with jacky on this one

*cough*

what were they thinking. Why would you send a game like that to troops? It's stuff like this that doesn't help us put video games in a good light :( oh well like someone else said they got the right to do what ever they want with the game. I just saw a story this morning that suicide among troops has gone up this year.

@Jack Thompson


Anyone here could say that this game would loose money, in fact i'm sure a lot fo them did, Gamers tend to know what will suck, WE'RE the ones who buy them remember. which is why left behind failed.

one more for the gamers, two if you count people ignoring your opinions jack, we've said that all along.

Shoehorn brought up the same point I was going to. The books were not about a convert or die mission. The small band of believers were basically on the run most of the time or in disguise trying to set certain events into motion. I do remember a few of the main Christian characters being forced to kill a person here and there, but they always seemed remorseful after the fact. I think this game is the result of a phenomenon I noticed about the time book 7 came out, they are seriously milking this cash cow for all it's worth. The series easily could have been condensed to 6 books, instead they dragged it out to 12 for the core series, 3 prequels, and a sequel, plus a few movies. This game losing the message of the original series was bound to happen as the books became a multimedia project instead of a series of novels. The Christ Clone Trilogy was a much better series dealing in the same material for anyone that cares.

I also think games like this send the wrong message of christianity to non-christians. I have talked to several people of various beliefs on religious/faith based questions (always fun as long as no one takes things personally) and it's amazing how often examples like this game are brought up as proof of "See what the Christians are like".

In conclusion it is a horrible game for various reasons. Please send the troops something fun, like Shadow of the Colossus, that way if they run into one in Iraq they already are "trained" to look for the glowing weak point and kill it.

“[Left Behind: Eternal Forces] lost $4.3 million, and three people were fired over it.” –Thompson

Is that true?

The money bit I don’t doubt though I’ve no idea where Thompson got that number. Was anyone fired over the game? Honestly, I don’t know. I’ve looked around a bit online but haven’t been able to confirm it as fact. Maybe if Thompson would be so kind as to support his claims with links to the appropriate news articles or press releases…

Here’s what I do know:

According to critics, Left Behind just isn’t that great of a game.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/928956.asp?q=left%20behind

According to Left Behind Games, Eternal Forces sold 65,000 copies in its first 6 weeks.

http://www.leftbehindgames.com/archive/Storage_For_Press_Releases/PR%20-...

Analyst Michael Pachter predicted sales of 200,000 and a forthcoming sequel.

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/01/05/analyst-sees-gold-in-left-behind-eter...

A sequel is planned for July ’08.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162811.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6162...

Left Behind Games stocks spiked when the game came out and have been low ever since.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=LFBG.OB&t=1y

Andrew Eisen

I believe they did a business reorg early this year, perhaps March-April and let go one of the main execs.

It was over money, not the game content. How in the world could they have been surprised at the game's content? It's based on the book series, which is Left Behind Games' sole reason for existence.

This story has been kicking around the non-gaming blogosphere for a few days. Someone there mentioned the execs getting fired and apparently added 2+2=5. JT thus picked it up from erroneous reports.

@ Jack Thompson

Hey, Jackie boy, this would be a good site for you to visit.

http://www.godisimaginary.com/

I severed my relationship with Tyndale House over this game, warning that a) it would not make money, and b) it was clearly contrary to the Gospel.

Considering Jack himself doesn't seem to follow the Gospel despite his assertions, I find this statement hilarious.

The people who made it should be sent oversees and not allowed to come back.

Too bad we can't do the same to Jack. :p

@Sidewinder

Couldn't do much more damage than what has been done, I'd wager.

@Adaptor

They chose their fate. On a lot of bullshit information sure, but they still chose their fate. If you are over 18, you are legally responsible for yourself, even if you can't figure out why you should stay out of the sand trap.

Yes the game is in bad taste but should re deny people the creative freedom to make things such as this? Thats just basically where I'm coming from.

Is this the perfect game to send to the troops? Absolutely not, especially considering the extreme cultural and religious tension that is present.

Should we perhaps choose a different game to send them? Absolutely. I honestly think we should send more than one kind of game. I don't think its a marvelous idea to only send one kind of game, especially if in this situation but I'm not going to agree with trying to prohibit it. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do so.

But then again this is coming from a man who wants to return all military home yesterday.

@Adaptor

Do you even know what depleted uranium is used in?

Goddamn, you say some stupid shit.

As for PTSD, its a condition of the weak minded who can't come to terms with the fact that if you didn't shoot him, he would've shot you.

@Zigs and Adaptor

The Brookings institute, an institute that has done its best for years to say this war was going nowhere, has changed their tune recently, as has the media. Will we be leaving soon? No. Are we making progress? yes.

oh wow. 500 in one attack, the first of its kind in 3 weeks.

But lets have the people with no military knowledge whatsoever talk shit about a place they've only heard about.

@ Jack Thompson.
"Jack Thompson, Attorney Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Tyndale House published my book re video game violence and at the same tim gave the Left Behind rights to the Troy Lyndon group.

I severed my relationship with Tyndale House over this game, warning that a) it would not make money, and b) it was clearly contrary to the Gospel. The game lost $4.3 million, and three people were fired over it. I was right, again.

I applaud the decision not to allow this game to be sent oversees. The people who made it should be sent oversees and not allowed to come back. The game is hurtful and it is absurd. Jack Thompson"
---------
Your post here illustrates the one thing I take exception to. You've always maintained your stance that your goal is to keep violent video games out of the hands of children. When pressed on this, or caught in a contrary position you reiterated that you were not out to ban all video games or even all violent video games. Just their sale to minors.

My point is this..Who cares how violent this game is? Really? It's being sent to people in the ARMY. Last time I checked you had to be a legal adult to join the military. So, in conclusion..Why should we care what you think about this particular situation when it in no way applies to your legal crusade in video games? The answer is simple. (And if you give a different one then you really are a liar) Your legal crusade against video games has no basis with children. You have an agenda against certain companies and attempt to cover it up by dabbling in other areas. Your antics fool no one; you're less and less of an issue in any arena; political, public, legal or otherwise with each damning post, email and rant you spew.

Pat Tillman was a tragedy indeed, and I will make no excuse for the Generals in the DoD that let the poor Ranger's death be attributed to a mistake of his own; he was a goliath of a man and lionhearted as any.

All military personnel coming home from a war have a squelch order, and as for the media, there is no such thing so long as they don't discuss troop movements.

As for extending tours, yes, that does suck immensely, but it happens, and when you sign up you know it could.

@Mauler

Don't forget the Gears of War controversy the army (was it army?) was involved in not too long ago. Someone would shit a brick regardless of what gets sent over. Buying the shittiest piece of uncompiled code on the market and trying to send it was just sleazy though.

@ Picho
God that game is terrible.

@ Andrew Eisen

Your totally right I would be surprised to doubt Thompson and his figure. I personally would be surprised if it didn't make a profit there is a large audience for this type of game. Wikipedia has it down as turning a two million in sales but not making the developers a profit although the link they use to prove the fact is broken so I don't really trust that.

Also there making a sequel so somebody is confident in the franchises gaming future.

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbehindeternalforces/news.html?sid...

Ok, I just found this on gamespot saying that they have posted a $4.1 million lose after earning $2.2 million up to december 2006.

@Jack Thompson, loser lawyer

Okay, so we don't like Left behind Eternal Forces either. But still....

"The people who made it should be sent oversees and not allowed to come back."

Not only was that comment a bit too much in my opinion... it also shows your spelling ability is waning. You typed "oversees" when it should've been "overseas."

If you insist on posting here in GP, at least learn not to misspell. Thank you.

@Gabriel Celesta

It's WordPress we have to beg, their crappy software doesn't have previews for comments.

@ Miang
You have to understand the image of US troops being sent a game were the chief activity is coverting people to Christianity while they are ina Islamic country is horribel to say the least. It doesn't matter if the games were sent by an organizarion that isn't part of the governt ment or milatary establishment it would still end with US troops being sent those games.
Game content aside I'm appaled that anyone think to send sucha crappy low quality game to our troops.

Actually, it's more due to the fact there ARE Bibles in IRAQ. They had ENOUGH problems with Bibles, the last thing they want is a video game that further promotes that sort of thing. Because at least in the bible, you can choose what to read. In the game, converting others is pretty much the main objective and you have no other options other than killing them.

@ Falcon

I do understand that. But if we want to argue that games should not be censored because of content we can't just turn around and say this game shouldn't be sent to this group of people because of its content. I can understand that some people are sensitive to the politics of the situation. But I have to go with the freedom of speech issue on this. If troops can take bibles, or be sent bibles, or take korans or torrahs, or be sent any of these things there is no difference in sending this game. And even if they couldn't, if people can send the troops GTA or any other game then you can't restrict this one based on content.

Frankly most of the troops wouldn't be likely to play this game if it is as bad as I have heard but if people want to send the game to them they should have the right to choose to play it or not. Are we going to go through what literature is sent to the troops and see if it has appropriate content for the political situation of the country they find themselves in? Do you suppose if they can play computer games they can watch movies on PCs as well? Are we going to go through what movies can be sent to the troops? While I personally might think there are much better things to send that is not really the issue. The issue is should these people be allowed to send this game to the troops if that is their choice. I can't see a reason why not. After all they aren't protesting this group sending bibles, and I would be willing to bet that if they had included the book Left Behind instead of the game Left Behind this would never be an issue. Can anyone explain to me why a book on the same topic should be treated so differently from a game?

Now I can't see that sending this game should be such a big deal. I heard it suggested on another forum that if the troops play this game they will want to go out and kill more Iraqis because they are Muslim. I am very relieved that I haven't seen this argument here since in principal it isn't that different from saying that GTA encourages people to kill cops. I don't really believe that playing a game is going to be a primary motivation for anyone to do anything, especially our soldiers.

What makes me sad is that so much time and effort is being sent talking about what games should be sent to our troops instead of talking about what supplies, like decent body armor, they need.

Halo will be next you are fighting religious exstreamests in it......

You can choose what you read but you can't choose what you play? Again, this is treating game media differently than other forms of media. There is choice in video games as there is in movies and books when it comes to the consumptions of that media. If you don't want to convert or kill someone then you don't play the game. It is not any different than not reading the book. Banning the game for the message is absurd on any level. It just becomes harder to take that stance when you don't agree with the message. A ban on this message isn't any different than a ban on any message.

If you agree with banning a message then picking which message to ban just comes down to which messages you like and how does that make you any different from any number of state legistators or other public figures?