"...they are more artistic than film."

"We are an adult entertainment industry"

Have you ever found yourself in a situation defending what you believe in? Ever seem to be making some headway when another person joins your side and begins spouting comments that you really wish weren't be said, despite the INTENDED message?

During my 25 years on this planet, any time I've heard the words "Adult Entertainment" my mind immediately made the connection to pornography, which is a word being used a lot in reference to game content lately.

I know what he was trying to say, and while I understand his intentions, I think he could have chosen his words more carefully.

No, I'm not going to play Manhunt 2 and No, I don't like being told I what and can and cannot play either. If they called it Saw or Hostel: The Game, would anyone raise such a fuss given what they get away with in the films?

I mean I hope R* gets the game out eventually, just on the grounds that this might actually bring the double standard of our ratings systems to a head. Will I ever play the game? nah

I hope they appeal to the ESRB as well.

***But if you look at a film like Man Bites Dog, it makes Manhunt look tame in comparison, but that film can be bought by anyone aged 18.***

And the Illinois governor's study that claims that a child can purchase an M rated game 69% of the time will tell you that they can get R rated movies about 80% of the time...or more. I can't remember.

But then, neither can the politicians since it would ruin their ability to pander.

Given Rockstar have done more to the detriment of the games industry than any other, asking everyone to rally round them is unlikely to be met with enthusiasm. Don't get me wrong, I love most of their games, but the management badly need a kick up the arse.

Uh-huh, and let's rally behind Jeffrey Dahmer's memory, too. Great idea, Gordon.

Rockstar is like the kid who pulls the fire alarm and expects his friends to bail him out when he's in trouble after pinning the blame on some other kid.

Protecting freedom is one thing, but defending Rockstar is another thing. Yes, Hot Coffee was blown out of proportion, but they're the ones who denied everything about its existence and tried to pin the blame on "modders". As a result, this mess.

"Adult Entertainment Industry"? Yeah that's ammunition for Jackie and politicians to use. I don't know the implications of the phrase in the UK, but in the US, it's definitely linked to porn.
And if I know news channels, this will be the headlines:
"Game Industry Links Itself to Porn"
"Game Publisher Admits He Targets Porn to Children"
etc., etc....

I believe that there should be as much support for the full version of Manhunt 2 as possible. I believe that the esrb is violating the constitutonal rights of America by having it set where if you put a certain amount of violence in a game it would get an AO rating that would make it difficult to play the game the way the game was originally made.

@Jack

That doesn't even make any sense. Not even in any context I can think off. What? He's dead, just that, a memory. It'd hard enough just trying to think of something decent to say, it's so ludicrous. And any how, Manhunt 2 is merely fiction. Dahmer was an insane murderer who was a bit cannibalistic, tried to make zombies, and kept organs in his fridge. That's real. That happened. Manhunt 2, has not.

Ok here's the skinny folks. Rockstar has every right to make whatever kind of game they want. Stores have every right to say "We won't sell this." Hardware developers also have every right to say, "We don't want this kind of material on our systems."

The break comes in at the ESRB. What's the point of an AO rating? It's the exact same as any other rating. To say this is what the game rates as based on content. Not based on interactiveness. Not based on how this will affect the games sales. ESRB is NOT there to help companies make money in any shape, way, or form.

Now I see all of you yelling about Hostel and Saw III as examples of things getting past ratings. Take it up with the MPAA they are the ones that rated those not the ESRB. Considering what I've heard of Manhunt 2 and its predecessor. AO sounds completely and perfectly spot on as a rating.

I agree with Rockstar 100%. The game industry really disgusts me, they deserve a nice kick in the pants. I love video games but the game industry is getting dirty. It is upsetting.

"Rockstar has every right to make whatever kind of game they want. Stores have every right to say “We won’t sell this.” Hardware developers also have every right to say, “We don’t want this kind of material on our systems.”

Yes on the first one, likely on the second one. The third one is a bit more problematic from a market dominance/anti trust perspective. But that is for another argument which may come up if Sony and N keep to that line.

As I have been saying for months - this is not about R*, Manhunt, Hot Coffee, AO or other minutiae. This is about the ability of a government to interfere in business relations by arbitrarily banning a product they 'deem' is inappropriate. There really are only 2 positions to take:

1) The government is in place to aid individuals and business by upholding the rule of law and by providing a forum for the expression of ideas.

2) The government is in place to replace the rights of individuals to choose what expression to listen to.

It really can't be any simpler than that. This is a product which contains computer code that instructs a microporcessor to disply various pixelated colours on the screen depending on the manipulations of the end user. There is nothing 'immoral' or 'dangerous' about it. It is as rediculous as saying that the internet, microsoft office or television cable boxes should be 'banned'.

As a taxpayer and citizen that will be eternally vigilent of the government's servants never ending desire to extend dominance, I am angry that no one seems to mind this terrific waste of resources while other more important issues or matters go unfunded or ignored.

orangekrush, are you referring to the British ban?

What you just wrote almost sound slik you are implying that the US government banned Manhunt 2, when it did no such thing.

@Jack Thompson,

I don't accept Dahmer's right to kill people, but if someone wanted to make a movie, a book or a game that analysed the mentaility, then I would not deny them the right to do so.

I recall you claiming that 'Love Me Tender' was different to modern day music styles in one of your interviews, that proves how vastly you miss the point, and I really can't be bothered to point it out to you. You might bear in mind that once upon a time 'Love Me Tender' was claimed to be 'nothing like Real Music'.

I don't see 'as long as it doesn't offend Jack Thompson' being tagged onto the First Amendment any time soon.

~the1jeffy
rockstar is not that bad, I separate the stock scandal from the manigment and game scandals LOL

anyway despite their issues the point they bring to the table is that AO has been changed from NC17 to a porn label and there needs to be a real NC 17 level for gaming.

The thing is, everyone already knows there are games for kids, most of our argument has been based around the fact that no-one accepts that adults play video games too, now someone does that, it seems like everyone is leery of it because of what the wording might 'mean' to one country that Rockstar Leeds isn't even based in.

I myself, as I said before, am not interested in owning the game, but I'm also not interested in watching Soap Operas or Politically Motivated talk-shows, I, to put it simply, don't like them, I'm sure Rockstar won't deny me my right not to buy something I don't like or approve of, and I don't deny them the right to make it.

"Rally behind this:"

Yeah like thats going to happen.

@Shoehorn

One thing Carlos Mencia said "If I can't tell a joke in front of the peopel it talks about, if I can't tell a jew joke in front of jews, if I can't tell an asian joke i nfrotn of asians, if I cant' tell a black joke in front of blacks, then I can't tell that joke to ANYONE, ever"

I STILL say it should be released as an unlicensed video game. Madcatz did it with their GameShark. No reason Rockstar can't do it for the PS2 and possibly the Wii.

Rally behind this:

John B. Thompson, Attorney at Law
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, Florida 33146

August 19, 2007

The Honorable Deborah Platt Majoras, Chairman
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20580 Via Fax and e-mails

Re: Television Ad for Mature-Rated Video Game on Program with Huge Teen Audience

Dear Chairman Majoras:

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., the maker of the hyper-violent Grand Theft Auto games and whose Manhunt 2 has been banned worldwide for sale not only by governments but by Sony and Nintendo as well, is aggressively marketing its newest Mature-rated video game to kids under 17 years of age. This predatory corporate practice was supposed to stop in the wake of “Columbine” and industry promises made to parents.

On this Friday’s night’s 8 pm Eastern time airing of WWE’s wrestling program “Smackdown,” there were repeated ads for Take-Two/Rockstar Game’s Mature-rated, incredibly violent BioShock set to be released on August 21.

A check of the demographics of the audience of that program reveals that teens under 17 years of age watch that program in huge numbers. The live audience in the arena containing thousands of pre-17 teens. That is precisely why Take-Two’s new chairman, Strauss Zelnick, who was recently called by Fox News’ Neil Cavuto a “marketing genius” is outlandishly marketing BioShock to kids.

The FTC has continued to express concerns about the continued marketing of Mature-rated video games to children, especially by Take-Two, as indicated by the FTC’s news release found at http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/06/videogames.shtm.

If there is any doubt as to the inappropriateness of BioShock for kids under 17 and thus the harmfulness of tv ads pitching it to them, you can see the content of the game for yourself at Take-Two’s site at http://www.2kgames.com/bioshock/bioshock.html. Video game enthusiast, web-based sites are thrilled with how violent the game is.

Remarkably, the video game industry is running ads for games like BioShock on teen-intensive television programs while at the same time its industry-captured “watchdog,” the ESRB, is running a self-congratulatory ad campaign to assure parents that the video game ratings system is working and that the industry can be trusted not to target their kids with these Mature-rated games. It is all a lie, as the BioShock ads prove.

This mendacious sleight of hand helps explain recent FTC findings that roughly 40% of the time kids under 17 can still buy Mature-rated games at major retailers with no parent in sight. The industry aggressively creates in kids a high demand for “Mature” games and then tells Congress and anyone else who will listen that they are doing “all we can to keep Mature games out of the hands of kids.”

This rampant fraudulent trade practice is precisely what “Big Tobacco” did with its “Joe Camel” and other teen-targeting ads, while at the same time lying to Congress that it was not marketing its adult product to kids.

Enough already. The Federal Trade Commission must act, finally, to stop the video game industry from routinely marketing Mature-rated video games to kids under 17, just as Take-Two is presently doing with BioShock.

Regards, Jack Thompson

Copies: Media
Governor Mitt Romney
Senator Hillary Clinton

"Rally behind this"

What the fuck are you? An eighth grader?

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