Racial Comments Trouble Philly Games Writer

My buddy Rob Watson, with whom I share video game coverage chores at the Philadelphia Inquirer, is concerned about some gamer reactions he’s read online concerning Black College Football: The Xperience.

The new PC game from Baton Rouge-based Nerjyzed Entertainment is based on the Unreal 3 engine and should launch this fall. Writes Rob:

I have always bragged about how smart you gamers are and how open-minded and kindhearted you’ve been in terms of how the world works. Some of you let me down over the last couple of weeks…


Various forums and message boards were littered with "Why do they need their own game?" or "If there was an all-white football game, there would be an uproar!"




There was once a time when these schools were all that African Americans had in terms of higher education… this new game… includes some things EA (makers of the NCAA Football series) probably never even thought about when it comes to black schools; annual classic match-ups and a Battle of the Bands competition…

Stop the hate and investigate.

GP: We haven’t been tracking BCF:TX up until now. However, after reading Rob’s column we did check out some postings around the Net.

While some gamers have been quite supportive of the game concept, as Rob says, others have been less than accepting. Not to single out Joystiq (whose coverage was very fair), but the 200+ comments to Justin McElroy’s article on the game are a good example of the various reactions to BCF:TX.

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  1. 0

    […] The article can be found here. Basically, there is a game called “Black College Footbal: The Xperience.” Xperience is the correct spelling. The game involves exactly what is sounds like; Black, as in African American, football players, and their….Xperiences. It is a football game that may or may exclusively include black players. Apparently, a friend of Dennis (which makes me immediately respect the man, for the record)named Rob Watson is not happy about the negative press the game has been getting- namely, people calling it out as racist, and that no one would tolerate a white college football experience. Rob puts it thusly: “There was once a time when these schools were all that African Americans had in terms of higher education… this new game… includes some things EA (makers of the NCAA Football series) probably never even thought about when it comes to black schools; annual classic match-ups and a Battle of the Bands competition… Stop the hate and investigate.” […]

  2. 0
    Ronan says:

    So where is the problem? I went to FAMU and still get that feeling every time I hear a band strike up, or see Orange and Green. There is nothing like my college football experience on any of those other games I have played. EA wasn’t there and couldn’t catch that feeling if they tried. If this game doesn’t do it for you, then whatever, don’t play it!

    HBCU’s were all black once, cuz white people didn’t want us in their schools. White people made the schools — now they want to get mad that we still enjoy them, and want to promote the experience. It’s seriously time to get over yourselves. I don’t watch your white world and count how many all white activities you guys do every day.

  3. 0
    Mulk says:

    Not to derail the topic at hand but did anyone catch the NBC Nightly News on the 19th? It seems traditionally black colleges are getting more white and Hispanic students because African American students are choosing to go to other schools since they can pick and choose now.

    Well anyways figured it might be relevant to the topic at hand.

  4. 0
    monolithic says:

    Funny that a lot of the people telling black folks to “stop whining” when they cried racism at the RE5 trailer are more than likely the same ones complaining about this historically black football game. Not trying to get into a debate with anyone, just thought I’d throw that out there.

    Frankly, I think both sides are wrong.

  5. 0
    HenryFan#12 says:

    To me, the article on hand that Dennis cites is really discussing the reaction to the game, and much less the game itself. Really, with the RE 5 debate, and this, I think that as the industry becomes more mainstream, these are the growing pains that accompany a growing medium. We won’t be able to escape these sorts of debates anymore, and even though we’re united by a similar hobby, we all have very different outlooks on life. This argument, in particular, strikes at the core of a very uncomfortable topic for Americans.

    To me, it’s not so much about “why isn’t there a White College Football Game?” It’s more that if some other sports division wants to make a game, then hell, they can, and should. To me, HBCUs have a distinctive culture to them, such as the Battle of the Bands, which you don’t really see in the sorts of college football that’s on ABC on Saturday afternoon, or in the bowls on New Years Day.

    For example, I like soccer. If I want to make a game recreating the “Saturday Afternoon in My Local Park Xperience,” but except for a small number of white people, because most of the people in my neighborhood are black or Latino, and I want to recreate said experience in a game, is it “reverse racist,” just because there’s one or two white people? Or is it the French National Team? 😛 Would there be a similar problem if EA did a FIFA Women’s World Cup 2007?

    I think we should be encouraging more indie game development, and somehow, I don’t think that a sports game that’s based on a very real school conference that’s been ignored is somehow on par with FPS’ designed by neo-Nazis to stomp skulls in. Hell, I’m happy that ANYONE is bothering to make something besides EA and Visual Concepts.

    I say, save the knee-jerk reactions for something that really matters, like your local politician preening for votes by trying to “save the children,” while they can buy unrated splatter flicks at Best Buy.

    Really, I think the root of this is a misunderstanding regarding Historically Black Colleges and Universities. There’s no discrimination against any one else who wants to attend, and honestly, if you’re a high school senior who has the choice between a free ride at a school like Howard or Hampton or a partial scholarship at a state school, regardless of your background, what would you take?

    I’m assuming that many of the “OMG, this is racist” crowd has never had friends who went to an HBCU? Years ago, I visited some friends at Morehouse, and found that A: a white guy was the class president, B: there were lots of people there of Indian, Pakistani, and Burmese descent, and C: it was an all-male school.

    No one cared about color; they just cared about girls, because they were across the way at Spelman. Sometimes, it might not be as cut and dry as self-segregation; it might be all about what school offers you the best scholarship. If it’s one that has historically had lots of black students, then so be it.

    When you think about it, however, it’s all kinda moot. I bet EA swallows this fish whole like a whale come NCAA 09 and adds these smaller conferences to maximize the profits and crush the competition.

    And at the end of it all, we’ll still be arguing about racism.

    Some of us will say that it’s racist, because we should live in a color blind society.

    Some of us will say that it’s not racist, because historically, this has been an institution that’s been around for a long time.

    Some of us will use this as a launching pad to talk about what they hate about people who don’t look like them, while saying that they have friends in that group, so it’s okay.

    Others will use it as a launching pad to accuse other people of discriminating against others.

    All of them are very real responses, and all of them, whether we like it or not, divide us from the very glue that binds us to this message board. But it’s necessary, as games mature with us.

  6. 0
    Demontestament ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Wow I don’t know what all the hubbub is about. We all know this game isn’t going to sell very well, it looks to me like another crappy football game now with the movie drumline made into a game mode. My whole stance on it is, White football game, Black Football game, it is going to suck no matter what in the end.

  7. 0
    Werrick ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    The thing the concerns me is that seperation often leads to segregation. I think it would be very hard to convince me that in other pro or semi-pro football organizations black players are discriminated against.

  8. 0

    “And why sould I stop paroding bad arguments with “interweb” speak exactly?”

    Because in reading your actual arguements you only parody yourself, which really makes you look pathetic, and looking pathetic takes away your credibility.

    Father_Time has been right time after time, yet you respond like a difficult, petulant, child. I’ve been in staples at the immaturity and dewy-eyed ignorance you’ve displayed.

    As for my opinion? I’m not really sure. I’m having trouble wondering just why there needs to be one. Aren’t other football games fun enough?

  9. 0
    Predatorian234 says:

    The game isn’t racist unless the creators of the game meant it to be racist.

    If they wanted to make a football game that was devoid of whites because they don’t want them to be in their game, then its racist.

    If they wanted to make a football game that followed the black culture through there schools, its not racist, but it is SOMEWHAT wrong.

    Mainly for the points already said.

    If we really want racism to end, do you think SEGREGATING ourselves even MORE SO is whats gong to end it? Or do you think we should finally grow the hell up and consider us all the same damn thing.

    There shouldn’t BE a BET or a black history month, just as there shouldn’t be a WET or a White history month. There should simply be ET and History.

    If we keep segregating ourselves, how the hell are we going to learn to co-exist?

    This game isn’t racist, and to a point it isn’t wrong…but it sure as hell not helping the situation. And if there is a reverse racist backlash from this, the blacks only have themselves to blame.

  10. 0
    Doctor Proctor ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    You know, this is a great opportunity really. It’s a PC game, right? Well, once the mod community gets ahold of it, I would love to see someone change it to “White College Football: The Xperience”. That way, we can observe the reaction.

    Personally, my bet is that it’ll get some kind of media/blog attention and be decried as vile and racist.

  11. 0
    aerix says:

    I remember Chris Rock had a bit about affirmative action in one of his stand up acts-something along the lines of “I don’t want to get a job over a white man just because I’m black. If there’s a test that proves who’s better for the job, and he does better, give the white man the job, if I do better, give me the job. But if it’s a tie…f*** him! Mother****er had a two-hundred year head start!”

  12. 0
    grombar ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @David D.

    Special treatment is unequal by definition. And affirmative action — lowering standards for an entire group of people, just on account of their skin color, isn’t just unequal; it’s insulting. So is raising standards on account of skin color; did you know that the same admissions systems that give extra points for being black take points away for being Asian?

    What’s next? Should white basketball players’ points count double? If Hillary and Obama tie, should we just give it to Obama? (Well, I would say yes, but not for that reason.)

    Holding everyone to the same standard at work or school; that’s equality. Moving that standard up and down depending on skin color is condescending, it paints millions of people with the same brush, and it’s racist. Pure and simple. It says, “Oh, you’re black, so you must not be as good in school as white kids. Here, have some free points. You’ll need them. Say thank you.”

    Seriously, to hell with that.

  13. 0
    Jack says:

    This is based on teams that actually exist/ed. I don’t get what everyone is up in arms about. When you play madden do you care which of the digital players are black or white?(if you do then you got issues) Then so what if all the digital players in this game are black.
    Why not worry more about whether or not it will be a good game. Isn’t that the argument used when discussing a game linked with excessive violence?

  14. 0
    David D. ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    I’m not sure you’ve noticed, but for races, genders, cultures and sexuality who have traditionally not experienced equality…being treated equally (particularly in the face of institutionalized prejudice and bias) often requires “special treatment”.

  15. 0
    aerix says:

    (I didn’t have time to read all the comments up to this point beforehand, so my thoughts may have already been voiced by someone more articulate) I could be wrong, but this seems a little like the “exploitation theater” of video games…
    From those cats who brought you “Blackula, Caddyblack, and Black Kramer vs. Kramer”, comes a funky game so fly, you’re gonna say “Damn, that’s funky!”
    I apologize if my modified Family Guy quote offended anyone, I just wanted to insert myself into this conversation.

  16. 0
    LoopyChew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I don’t know. BCFX looks like the ONLY thing going for it is supposedly that it’s “black.” I’m not so much offended by the fact that it’s targeting black people so much as it’s exploitative. The feeling I get from the marketing is the same thing I get when people market stuff as “EXTREEEME TO THE MAX!”, e.g. this game was conceived when some guy in a suit decided that they really wanted to get gaming to “the blacks,” so maybe “the football” would be the best way to do so, and hired out to the lowest bidder.

    Basically, I think the game itself is racist and derogatory, by thinking that adding a superficial race component to an inferior product is going to make it that much more marketable, instead of pushing a quality gaming experience.

  17. 0
    Majestic_12_x ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Technically speaking, developers can make a “White College Football” and focus on the early 1900s style of play (with leather helmets or other rudimentary protection). I’d be willing to bet that Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the rest of the NAACP would be foaming at the mouth, even if it was historically accurate.

  18. 0
    Austin Lewis ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Oh yea, its the famed Jena 6 line again. Wow.

    Go to Ohio, where I used to go to college. Go to Over the Rhine with me. Watch as the second you walk into the area, the Black people living there leer at you. Watch as within four minutes of walking in, you’ve got at least 2 people following you. Watch as you turn around, the stupid fucks attempt to mug you.

    Then, realize that this is an every day occurence in Over the Rhine.

    As for Louisiana, there’s plenty of racism from the black community down there too. Just because its not as publicized as one incidence of racism, doesn’t mean its not occurring.

    But of course, we should listen to what the UK has to say about occurences in our country. Because they’re so well informed about it.

    If you don’t notice the persecution of white people in our society, than you’re a fucking retard. Theres no affirmative action for white people, is there?

  19. 0
    Fandel says:

    Listening to some of the comments here… it’s no wonder why gamers are stereotyped as a bunch of white, whiny 15-year old kids.

    One things for certain — our school systems need to do a much better job of teaching US (and world) history.

    Oh, and for the idiots out there who still believe that white people are persecuted in this country. Take a trip to the rural south — poetically Jena Louisiana.


    One thing that many gamers and Jack Thompson have in common: They both have a talent of making an ass out of themselves on the Internet.

    Oh, and Ohma: You’re not helping either with your “I’m right and everyone else is a racist attitude”.

  20. 0
    shady8x says:

    Couldn’t care less about this game but it is true, a whites only college basketball game would have a huge backlash…

    As for racsism in America the whites are not on top any more (except the rich elite)…Racsism against white people is all the rage…
    Though most of the rascism is in the communist like government job industry…

    ex:You have been working here for 5 years saved us millions of dollars have the support of your boss and haveonly great job reviews and you are white?
    Thats great but there is this black person that has worked here for a whole year, doesn’t have support of their boss and has average job reviews at best so we are going to have to hire the black person,
    sorry, maybe you will have more luck next time?
    If you don’t think this is rascism against a white person then go dunk your head in the toilet and wake up…

    If you think I am a typical american rascist then you should probably know, I wasn’t born in america and there has never been rascism against black people or even slavery of black people in my native country…
    The example above happened to a girl I know….

  21. 0
    DKH says:


    I do not exactly agree with your definitions of prejudice and racism. It isn’t because they’re bad, wrong, or anything like that. It’s simply that they’re too individually esoteric. They are, however, EXCELLENT as far as operational definitions are concerned. It is a shame that such definitions are not more frequently used.

    Also, the definition of privilege… I’ve heard it, I’ve used it, but I’ve never seen it put so simply and effectively. Thank you very, very much for it.

  22. 0
    Dave says:

    Perhaps it is useful to make a distinction here between racism, prejudice, and privilege. I offer this as a way to hone and focus the debate. Those who study such things often find this distinction productive as it parses out two very different social events.

    Start with prejudice: Prejudice is a belief about another based solely on that individuals identity markers. Thus if I believed that someone I met was a bad driver solely because they were a woman (without having watched them drive) I am prejudice. If I believe that black people are inferior or inherently different from white people solely because of the pigmentation in their skin, I am prejudice. My guess is many of the people here who are saying “I am not a racist” really mean I am not prejudice. That is I do not harbor preconceived notions about another based on identity markers.

    Racism is far more complicated: Racism is the collection of institutional, cultural, and historical forces that benefit discriminate against individuals based solely on identity markers. For example, I as a white male, recently rented a new apartment I was treated much differently, the same for car loans, job applications etc. I get the “privilege” of being white, and the many benefits are society associates with this (from not being monitored in a store by security guards to being assumed to be a good tipper at any business and thus getting good service). Thus I take advantage of a society which still has rampant racism. Forget the fact that my ancestors were not slave owners (came over after slavery) I still benefit from a history of white people in power discriminating against people of color . . .no choice of mine, i am not trying to feel guilty about this . . . just a fact.

    A person once told me the briefest definition of privilege I have ever heard: Privilege is not having to think about what privilege is. As someone who is white it is an exception rather than a rule that I am confronted with my race (sure when I go to to a predominately hispanic neighborhood I am reminded that I am white–but the fact that this is an unusual occurence proves the point).

    The game isn’t racist, rather it reflects a complex history of a once horribly racist, still predominately racist society. (Think about it this way if we made a historical baseball game set in 1940 we would have to have two separate games, one for the Negro Leagues and one for the Major Leagues . . .would the games be racist, no, rather they would reflect the racism of the time.)

  23. 0
    Seiena ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Actually Aces of Sevens I’m not even going to bother and point out that it’s not so much the game as the statement…it is infact -TRUE-! And has been proven before if you put the words ‘White Only’ in anything it’s -RACIST- if it’s any other Race only it’s praised for standing up…and I have good cause to say that stuff cuz I’m a Catch 22 in Real life…my -parents- are loaded, I am -POOR- (as in 0 income.) and Because my -Parents- are loaded the world expects them to support me…but what happens when I wanna go to college and they say go get Financial Aide? FA says “sorry…your -parents- are rich…get them to support you…oh they won’t? well thats too bad guess you aren’t going to college…” Yes my FA told me that seriously.

    I wish people wouldn’t twist my words I’ve been reading and all I see is a bunch of bashing of stupid crap -_-;

  24. 0
    Ace of Sevens ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @Seiena: Again, these colleges are not restricted to black students and I’ve seen no indication that game is restricted to black characters either. Their blackness is a matter of history, not policy. We have a game for the white schools. It’s called NCAA Football. It’s liek peopel aren’t reading any comments and continuing to make the same statements, many of which were already debunked in the OP.

  25. 0
    Austin Lewis ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Actually, that wasn’t an assumption.

    Julia Carson has showed up to 12/672 votes.

    The only reason she still has a job is because she’s black and lives in a mostly black district.

    Her time as a representative has been marred with scandal and ‘missing funds’, as well as abuse of power.

    Now, if this was anybody else, say, Richard Lugar, everyone would jump down his throat.

  26. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “As to Black folk being underrepresented in government, it would help if the people who did represent you actually showed up (like Julia Carson, D Indiana.) “

    And again the assumptions, you guys just live in your own universe don’t you?

  27. 0
    Austin Lewis ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    As to Black folk being underrepresented in government, it would help if the people who did represent you actually showed up (like Julia Carson, D Indiana.)

  28. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I love how you guys always assume that I embody everthing you hate. You do realise that you *don’t* actually know anything about me beyond what I’ve said here right?

    So why is it that everyone who attacks me assumes I *MUST* be an EEEVIL black lesbian out to oppress the poor disadvantaged white man (I hear that they’re *SO* underrepresented in the government).
    I just find it very funny how everyone just jumps to that conclusion (granted it is about…mmm…25% correct) and then declares “Ugh, I can’t beleive you! You’re just proving every negetive sterotype I’ve held-err heard about you people”.

    Whereas I (and the few others who posted similar arguments), have only said that whinging like a spoiled child just because you don’t get the same treatment as a group of people who are (both historically and currently) disadvantaged*. Yes, in an ideal, magical happy land, full of rainbows and puppies, we wouldn’t have to treat people differently because we’d all magically have equal opportunities and social standings in life. However, we don’t live in a magical land of blah blah, so we need protections and special considerations in place (both societally and socially) for people who do not have the same opportunities/social standing in life through no fault of their own.

    *and been a bit of an ass, which I *suppose* I should apologize for, though my assyness does not change the validity of my arguments in the least.

  29. 0
    Seiena ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @Ohma I say this with all do love and affection because 90% of my friends happen to be African American….you’re the Racist one…you’re bashing people and putting words in their mouth…and to be honest my friends would be ashamed of you.

    I am Far from Racists as it takes hate to be Racist but I do see that it’s a Valid point. If there was a football game based solely on White players and called the White college whatever then yeah…there’d be a political uproar about the Racist Video game…and The proof is in a College.

    A group made a white only Scholarship for one reason, they wanted to show the hypocracy of the world today. they showed the facts that there was no scholarship that assured a white people went to college but there were plenty that assured other Races went…to me that is Racism that one race is left out or treated as a lesser entity…and thats just idiotic….

    Though the one thing that even -MORE- idiotic is to call Racism on a Logically valid point…thats like calling a person Racist against Mexicans because they are against -illegal- immigration o_O;

  30. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Ugh, I’m glad I ended up having better things to do yesterday, because all that “Well, your analogy is wrong ’cause it isn’t perfect in every single little detail, so I win the argument” crap is exactly why I said I wasn’t going get dragged into an argument over the analogy unless people could provide a legitimate argument against it.

    In my analogy the sponsor represented an ethnic/social majority, the add-ons and modifications were institutions and cultural traditions that favored the majority, and you’ll even notice that I said that only *some* of the sponsored drivers drove aggressively.

    In the more succinct analogy I posted, the bully wasn’t even representing every middle-class white male, only those who chose to use racial epithets as insults; the weak kid was the portion of the ethnic/social minority who opted to create their own slang in retaliation. In the context of the discussion that analogy was from, Person B suddenly decided to be *DEEPLY* offended by a gay member of the forum’s use of the term “Breeder” to affectionately refer to two of their friends who were planning to get married.

    And so, the reason why you use analogies in the comments section of a news article, is because it’s generally expected that anyone with the reading comprehension skills to understand the analogy, will also realize that it isn’t (and never will be) a *perfect* encapsulation of your argument, and that unless you have said something like “I want to kill whitey”, they also won’t assume that you are crazy.

    …and you don’t want to post a frigging wall of text that no one wall probably read.

  31. 0
    Jay says:

    It’s protected speech for them to have this racist game. It’s also protected speech for honourable people to attack this game for being racist.

    The moment it stops being something reasonable is the moment where the people exercising their right to say they find it offensive and segregationist decide to get the government to shut their opponents up.

    I’m thinking along the lines of a black John Thompson. “Black basketball is the devil! We need to ban it!”

  32. 0
    Kirk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Okay, again a history lesson. The Black Football Game is created around the historically black colleges in the US that were created during the time of segregation

    (Here is a list http://edonline.com/cq/hbcu/alphabet.htm)

    Yes there is a double standard. I can be called a cracker (This does not mean saltine crackers, but the slave driver who would crack the whip) and a honkey (during segregation the KKK would drive through black neighborhoods honking horns late at night) and I can’t do a damn thing about it. Yes it is hate speech, but when was the last time you heard of a black person being charged on hate?

    The NAACP is a double edged sword in my opinion, they do a lot of good, but they also claim racism when there was none.

    Just to remind everyone again. Think how much speech is limited for a white, straight, christian, male compared to a black, lesbian, aethiest, female. The more of a minority you are, the more protection you get in what you can say.

  33. 0
    FroggersRevenge says:

    Oy, don’t use Colbert as a model of behavior. The guy is a walking parody. The flaw in his haughty exhortation, “I don’t see race!” is that, even if his character wasn’t lying, being dogmatically “blind” to race also allows you to ignore racism.

  34. 0
    JJmug ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I think one of the biggest problems is schooling. In school we focus on only slavery in the south and it seems only African’s were slaves. When that is horribly untrue. Lets not forget that the Roman’s had 99.9% white slaves(Celts, Germanic tribes, Goths), and were sent all over the empire. Not only where these white slaves used for farming, they also were used for sex, fighting, among other things. Also lets not forget Serfdom hell i would rather be a slave than a serf.

    Another problem is we see race as in “white, African, Asian and so on” American instead of just American. For some reason it is wrong to be just a American. Stephen Clobert said something to the likes of i don not see color only Americans. Until can drop the race things like this will alwys happen.

  35. 0
    Jay says:

    Listen, I’m of English descent. I’m making Extreme Limey basketball 2008!

    I don’t want any Polacks, Bohunks, Krauts, Spics, Dagos, Wops, Frogs, Chinks, Japs, Squareheads, Gooks, Micks, or Wetbacks in my game. My intention is to create a game to celebrate my Limey heritage.

    Or…maybe….it’s just easier to stop segregating. It’s really romantic to segregate like it’s 1950, but all it does it make it harder to accomplish what we all really want out of life, to build a strong, safe life where we can get what we really want. I know it’s also not politically correct to point out when segregation is pseudo-racist(It’s not really racist, since ‘black’ isn’t a race, it’s a poorly defined lower limit on the amount of light human skin reflects compared to how much it absorbs), but it is. Dwell on how different everyone is, and you’ll just end up burning the bridges which all lead to the future.

  36. 0
    Ace of Sevens ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Baramos


    I don’t think you know what historically black means. These have never been racially exclusive colleges. They were established specifically for the benefit of black people and still have mostly black students, though. I suppose you could pretend away the racial angle and Name it SWAC SIAC CIAA College Football: The Racially Agnostic Xperience. That sounds like something I would buy on impulse.

  37. 0
    Baramos says:

    Negro League Baseball: The Battening is going to be the sequel? I’M THERE!

    Personally I think everyone should be offended by something titled Black College Football: The Xperience. But maybe that’s just me. I mean, okay, historically they used to be black colleges. I can dig that. Is the game set in the 1950s? Oh, it’s not?! You mean they aren’t really black colleges anymore?! Then what is the point of the title.

    Then again it’s not like this is a high-profile release. I don’t think it’s going to beat the NCAA game or the Madden game.

  38. 0
    Lavarock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    White people aren’t the bully. They’re the kids and grandkids of the bully. Can I walk up and kick a little kid because his dad kicked my dad’s ass in elementary school? No. Can I walk up to a big kid and kick him even if he’s minding his own business, because his dad was a dick? No, that’s wrong too.

    You can’t profile people like that. We are all individuals. If we were all exactly like our ancestors then black people would be exactly like they (usually) were during slavery, ie uneducated and conditioned to be subservient. That’s obviously racist bullshit. And so is the notion that white people need to be punished for the racism of dead white people they’ve never met and couldn’t have stopped from being bastards.

  39. 0
    RyanT says:

    “Oh bullshit. That;s just a way for you to try to paint anyone who disagrees as a racist so you can ignore them and make them feel like crap.

    It’s pathetic, is all it is. It makes YOU the bad guy in this debate. “

    No, it’s you who now feels like bad guy because you’ve actually just ignored what he said, focused on one part in particular to try and disarm is argument, and made yourself look pathetic. That particular part may have been a bit off, but the overall argument seemed pretty solid and fine to me.

  40. 0
    JimK says:

    People who are complaining about racism are are really complaining about the existance of historically black colleges,

    Oh bullshit. That;s just a way for you to try to paint anyone who disagrees as a racist so you can ignore them and make them feel like crap.

    It’s pathetic, is all it is. It makes YOU the bad guy in this debate.

  41. 0
    Ace of Sevens ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    An addendum to the above (GP, please add edit function): This sin’t a matter of black people were victimized so they’re getting their own college football video game as part of reparations. It’s a matter of historically black colleges having a rather different football culture than the schools in NCAA Football, so it might be interesting to cover that as well. It’s no more racist than Madden is nationalistic for featuring American football.

  42. 0
    Ace of Sevens ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It seems commenters here every bit as bad as Kotaku as the same reason. Can I see a show of hands for everyone who actually read the article about the context? This isn’t “all black” football. All Black football has mostly white players actually and will not be featured here.

    This isn’t about football with black players. It’s football at historically black colleges. These are colleges established during Jim Crow days because black students were excluded from almost all existing colleges in the Southeast. Anyone can attend and it’s always been that way at most of them if not all. When the historically white colleges finally broke down and allowed black students, there was no reason to shut down a bunch of perfectly good schools. We already have a game featuring these historically white colleges: NCAA Football.

    There’s plenty of reason for creating this game. Beyond the millions of alumni, students and fans who might want a game featuring their school, it’s culturally different, thus the battle of bands mode.

    People who are complaining about racism are are really complaining about the existance of historically black colleges, which is an issue that has nothing to do with this game.

  43. 0
    Jargon John says:

    I don’t see why people get so tied up over these pointless issues. If this developer wants to make a Black College [Soccer] game, who the fuck cares?

    It disappoints me that people have such an issue with it. And so much controversy is created because of it. It’s the same thing when GayGamer got raided and shut down, and all a lot of people could say is ‘lol y do teh gays neeed thar owne site lol’.

    Seriously, if you don’t like the content in the game, or on the site, or in the book, movie, tv show, etc…

    Don’t. Fucking. Play/Read/Watch It!

  44. 0
    koichan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    A lot of people don’t seem to realise that racism goes both ways.

    to me, all of the below sound equally racist:
    Black College Football
    White College Football
    *insert race here* College Football

    Doesn’t matter which race is the most common in said country, it still sounds racist.

    (above post ate my bracket tags, edit button needed :P)

  45. 0
    DoggySpew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    To answer your question about Indonesians: How the heck should I know ? The amount of Indonesians living in the Netherlands is percentage and number wise WAAAAAAAAAY lower then “Blacks” living in the US.

    So on point, there just aren’t enough Indonesians to be proportionaly represented in every profession.
    Better example would be Morrocans and Turks living in the Netherlands. There I can say this about it: No they are not proportionaly represented in every profession.
    Mostly because of the reason Gavin said: Substantially higher pay. Most work done by immigrants is low-education work (Working in factories, in the fields and stuff).
    Not that the Dutch won’t do this kind of work, but simply because immigrants are needed to supplement our workforce.

    Immigrants have the exact same rights here as anyone, ias well in terms of education. It is not surprisingly that children of immigrants have on average higher education jobs then their parents. Considering that most immigrants came to the Netherlands right after WW2, alot of immigrants have settled here. People from Suriname, Morroco, Turkey and Indonesia mostly.

    I’m not saying that there are no racial tensions in the Netherlands, but it is far, far less then in the US.

  46. 0
    Tristram says:

    @ Gavin

    I am not necessarily responding to you with everything I say. I am not offended by any means, just frustrated…and not particularly with you.

    My claim that black people were victimized has to do with my sense of history. If you think it was the NAACP, so be it. Whatever. This does not change the fact that they do not have the same opportunities at the same level yet. If saying that means they should not try because it doesn’t matter, then something is seriously wrong. What that should mean is that each should try as hard as they can to overcome this and change things for the next generation. But, clearly the kids ion the school you mention are not trying because the NAACP has told them they have no chance.

  47. 0

    @ Tristram

    I’m not sure I follow you’re response. I have not suggested making an all white football game anywhere today, nor have I said black football has no place as a game.

    I am not sure why you brought up black people in sports either. If race doesn’t matter in sports, why doesn’t it matter elsewhere?

    As for Indonesians in the Netherlands, I worked for a Dutch Toko many years ago (selling Indonesian kites around europe). I certainly can not speak for the whole country, or the legal system, but my coworkers (who were all originally very poor) felt it was going well enough.

    Like hispanics entering the USA, many of them joined the Toko for work — for pay substantially greater than what they would get at home, without an expensive (and unavailable) education. Again, I am not an expert, but this seems more like an attack against Doggyspew, and less on topic

  48. 0

    @ Terminator44

    It is funny how topics can balloon out of control on the net. I think I got here because I was concerned that people were just going to start shouting, and brainlessly attacking each other (and repeating ‘why not white foot ball’ over and over).

    I enjoy game politics’ and wanted to see if I could help keep the conversation from going too far down the toilet

    @ point09micron Says:

    good point 😉 though I’m unfortunately find more racist 14 year olds on the PSN too.

    @ Tristram

    I apologize if my part in the debate has offended you. That was not my goal.

    My goal is to express a complex idea, which is difficult for most people to accept because of semantics.

    For example, the NAACP certainly does not literally say “Blacks are victims”. However, the vary nature of your response:

    “Black Americans have done many things and achieved a lot but they WERE victimized and still are. “

    Proves my point. You feel blacks are still victimized today, and that is partially because of how the NAACP (and the greater USA culture) presents it.

    I am not saying the NAACP is not needed, nor that it does not do an important job. I am just saying, culturally, the NAACP (and most of the USA’s culture) presents this image of victimization, which results in a cyclic oppression of blacks.

    It is a huge problem in our culture. It is used against everyone, in every life style group, ethnic & racial group, and economic class.

    My point is to point that out.

    and hope one day (or perhaps over time) we find a solution that addresses the problem.

    As for RE5, think of it this way: Where blacks feel victimized, Whites feel villainized. Where it is reasonable to feel a game about a white man killing endless black people is bad, it is equally reasonable to feel ‘blaming whites’ for being represented as the killer of those black zombies is bad.

    As for Not being barred because you are White: If you spend time in Baltimore and DC, I would gladly take you to places where I would be turned away (if not shot) for being chromatically out of place (unless escorted by black friends). Some of those places would turn away my black friends for not being ‘black enough’.

    These cultural situations only exist because of the racism we’ve been talking about today: that people feel so victimized, because of how our culture presents the situation, that they would take it out on a random white passer bye.

    That’s no different from racism in the south, where poor whites may take out their hate on blacks in the same way.

    Does that makes sense to you?

  49. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m guessing most of the complaints against this game were simply due to ignorance. I have to admitt, had I simply seen the title and known nothing else, it would not have made a good impression on me, but that’s because I know pratically nothing about College Football and its history and the different leages and divisions and stuff. After reading a little bit more about it, it makes more sense now, and I have no problem with the game. Though I think they should change xperience to experience, but that’s just a pet peeve of mine.

    I’m not happy with the trend of some people here to catergorize anybody who had even a brief qualm about this game as racist or stupid, though. Sure, some of them are, but I’m sure many just didn’t understand the context. If EA were to make “Maddon Black Edition”, and have it be exactly like Maddon, except every non-black player is replaced by a fictional black player, how would people feel? I think many of the people commenting on this game at first assumed it was something like that.

  50. 0
    Tristram says:

    Father Time, no. The analogy was talking about power structures, not individuals. There is a powerful white power structure. The analogy was supposed to represent each group as a person. Yes, stretching it, that is what analogies do. they are not literal. His or her point stands firm. If you cannot see that point, I’m sorry. Your argument against it shows that you clearly didn’t.

  51. 0
    Questionmark ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I think it’s a little wrong to get upset over one of the statements mentioned.

    Paraphrased: “If there were an all white game there would be an uproar!” This is something thats been talked about with things like BET and the Black Entertainment Awards. I don’t thin it’s a racist statement, it’s simply pointing out how in some instances we’ve gone beyond treating people equally and fairly to giving them their own special arenas no one else can compete it.

    That being said I do believe there is still a lot of racial discrimination and a lot of racist people. But I also believe that those people exist in all cultural communities be it black, white, or any other. Another aspect of this is that if the game in question was simply trying to show the reality of historic schools, then of course it’s racist. It’s showing something that was racially motivated in the past. That doesn’t mean the people making the game were racist or people buying/playing it are racist just like reading about the civil war doesn’t make you racist.

  52. 0
    Father Time ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    My God what have I done, I have inserted myself into an argument that will get absolutely nowhere fast and will result in an unholy mess just like it did before. (Shudder)

    Now if you’ll excuse me I’m getting out of here before this turns into the Resident Evil 5 argument again.

    Oh and as a final word, remember boys and girls, this is only a freaking football game, the all black teams were real. Now if there were all white teams in the recent past and someone made a game out of it then I’m pretty sure most people would not complain. Any discussion on double standards, the n word, al sharpton and the like is very much off topic and will result in this thread becoming no more than a shouting match.

    You have been warned.

    Oh and if you are offended or insulted or whatever by my previous arguments feel free to ignore them or assume I was mis-informed because I probably will not be coming back here.

  53. 0
    Yuki says:

    I personally have no issue with the game itself. What I have an issue with, and what many of my friends, including some of the african americans, have an issue with is the double standard as it exsists.

    A game like this is fine, as long as it goes both ways. Lets have a black collage Football game, sounds great, could be a real eye opener to people not familiar with this history. On the other hand, lets have a white game as well for balance, seems fair right? But oh, if anyone ever were to try that, you watch how fast Al “Im a flaming dirtbag” Sharpton jumps on them.

    If anything ever proved the double standard in this country it was the DUKE Lacrosse case, and to this DAY, Nancy grace, AL Sharpton, and all there Ilk never once apologized for being scumbags and judging the players GUILTY long before the evidance was known.

    The issue here isn’t the game, it’s the horrific double standard that has been created by the media, our society, and our politicans, on both sides.

    Scum bags ALL OF THEM!

  54. 0
    Tristram says:

    Double post.

    A wall that twists every little thing you say into some bizarre statement. This is almost surreal. Gavin, no crap there are few games with a Latino or Asian main character. All my arguments could extend to them.

    Main point: These all black colleges exist, the players are real. To make an all white game you would have to invent all white teams, all white colleges. does this difference mean anything to anyone?

    Oh, and has anyone considered that the reason there are so many black people in sports is because it might be one of the few places where they can achieve and their race doesn’t matter?

    Doggyspew, how are the Indonesians in the Netherlands doing? Are they proportionately represented in every profession? Or is there a legitimate reason that they aren’t?

  55. 0

    @ DoggySpew

    part of the concern with scholarships like that is that there are more caucasians in the USA over all. Rich, Poor*, and middle** class. So a scholarship based purely on income would still be majority white-aiding. In an academic vacuum that is fair, but emotionally not so much.

    *I have to check the exact numbers with the USA Census department to confirm this statement. It is possible that there are fewer caucasian-poor than other racial & ethnic groups.

    **Likewise, the latino population may now have a higher household income base (in the middle class) than caucasians. It can be argued that this may by due to having larger families / more people per household (which makes reduces living conditions), but that’s a cultural debate, and would not count in a dollar-value scholarship debate.

  56. 0
    point09micron says:

    @ Gavin Schmitt

    “I am curious why Rob feels gamers are generally smart, open minded, and kind people?”

    He doesn’t have Xbox Live. It’s the only way he could come to that conclusion.

  57. 0
    Terminator44 says:

    Ah, the masses on the Interenet are once again called to action. All it has taken now is for a game to be called Black College Football. Now, watch the two sides of race discussion erupt between white people who complain about a supposed double standard and politically correct white people who will play the history card to attempt to justify said double standard.

    Clearly, expanding the argument past its boundaries must be our highest concern. The War on Drugs and equal treatment? The issue of racial quotas in colleges? Bah! There is no time for the forums to address those topics! Somebody on the Internet called a sports game we’ve never heard of racist!

    Seriously, this is getting montonous. This has come up when somebody with nothing better to do came up with a list of “racist” games. It’s come up with the RE5 trailer. Now we’re seeing it again! Have relationships become so tense lately that the mere mention of race in video games ignites them?

    I should probably stop here, as no doubt someone from at least one side is miffed at my comments. In closing, I leave you now with Family Guy’s words of wisdom on the subject:

    Peter: “For whistling at a white woman, go directly to jail. Aw man, does anyone ever win at this game!?”

    Cleveland: “You don’t win. You just do a little better each time.”

  58. 0
    Tristram says:

    My level of frustration is rising, so perhaps it is time for me to end my part in this, for the time being. One little thing that gets me:

    ARG. For the love of God why do people keep saying “if this was a white only game Sharpton and Jackson would be…” Seriously, this has been said a dozen times by a dozen different people. Stop saying the same thing again and again. Reads the effing argument that is being that is being presented by everyone on the board and then add to it, don’t just toss your two cents in.

    Gavin, the NAACP does not focus on black people as victims. The ideology does not focus on them as victims. What is does is try desperately to force people to remember the history and the perspective. Black Americans have done many things and achieved a lot but they WERE victimized and still are. The “I’m never gonna get any where, I’m just a black kid” is exactly the type of idea that the NAACP is fighting against, not promoting. these kids don’t have this attitude because they are told they are victims, they have this attitude because they still see a U.S.A. where they are still kept down. How would you feel if you grew up realizing that the only reason many employers would hire you is because they are forced to by law. Seriously. How sad is it that we NEED affirmative action? And yet if it were eliminated you would watch black employment drop…hell, things aren’t even equal with laws in place.

    What is so threatening to everyone about this game? And why the hell do people feel their race was attacked when RE5 was criticized. Most people posting here have comfortable middle class lives never facing problems beyond the normal everyday issues. Why do you resent the blacks for having a game that focuses totally on them? You want one that focuses on you too? You don’t feel like white achievement has been celebrated enough? Well go celebrate it. Have fun. Make your white only basketball game if it makes you feel any better. But just remember that there is nowhere in the U.S. or Canada that you will be barred from just for being white. Think about that, and then decide you are so under privileged that you need a game focusing solely on your race. I swear, I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall of people making the same argument again and again. “Duuur, if this were all white there would be outrage, durrr.” No shit. All white and all black are not the same thing. Live with it.

  59. 0

    @ Tristram

    Actually, from a legal stand point, you are correct. Equality is expressed as different elements of total equal value divided among the parties (Jack Thompson coul probably give a better text book description than that). For example, when dividing an inheritance, my brothers and I could agree to split our parents’ properties, cars, and cash any way, as long as the total each of us got were roughly the same.

    Still, the goal is to give all parties the same thing (approximate total value). It just avoids parity, where everyone would have to receive exactly the same thing (equal parts of each property, car, and cash).

    Om default race topic

    I can think of a few games, but I think that misses an important point:

    How many video games have a latino main character? A native american character? An eskimo, or hawaiian? (I don’t know the answer to that).

    How many main characters are not ‘white’, but ‘asian’? How many are ‘white’, but not ‘american’?

    Also, how many video game companies are owned or operated by minorities?

    I do not know the answer to those questions, however based on the number of non-US publishers and studios that produce games, I suspect the answer is “Proportionately small”.

    Still, it’s a dangerous assertion to make, because it expands beyond the US, and potentially claims Europe and Asia are anti-Black as well…

  60. 0
    DoggySpew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I applaud Gavin here, *Gives applause*.

    Also, to comment a bit on “Affirmative action”. This is something that is totally inconceivable here in the Netherlands.
    As per law, racism is not allowed. It is actually are “First amendment” if you will:
    “Allen die zich in Nederland bevinden, worden in gelijke gevallen gelijk behandeld. Discriminatie wegens godsdienst, levensovertuiging, politieke gezindheid, ras, geslacht of op welke grond dan ook, is niet toegestaan.”

    Which means: All who are present in The Netherlands shall be equally judged at equal circumstances. Discrimination of religion, lifestyle, political views, race, sex or on any other grounds, is not allowed.

    So a system where someone gets a scholarship, based on his race is out of the question. However, a scholarship based on the amount of income IS allowed. Because “income” is something that is seperate from who you are.

    Such a system could be implemented in the US as well, and it still would help “poor” black people. But it will also help “poor” white people.

    These systems however are hampered from being introduced in the US, because of the ol’ fear of communism.

  61. 0

    @ Ohma

    per: whites feigning outrage.

    My issue is equality, as an academic discussion. My concern is that by focusing on being victimized by whites, blacks can oppress themselves. This puts them in an understandable, but very real damaging cycle.

    That’s the issue. How to solve it is an entirely different story, completely out of place for this forum

  62. 0

    Uh…where to begin, where to begin…

    Look, I am no racist. But it even strikes me as a little biased that it only features black players.

    If this were a game featuring exclusively white players, Jesse Jackson, and Rev. Al Sharpton would be up somebody’s ass screaming their heads off.

    If it was supposed to be a part of the game, and didn’t involve anything to do with making a statement about race, I apologize for the misunderstanding. But the developer has said nothing about why there are no white players in the game, so naturally, the mind assumes these things.

    Do I think I’m a racist? No. I think that I’m a rational person, who’s trying to figure out why they’d done this, be it a choice in how to develop the game, or a statement on race.

  63. 0
    Kirk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Is this game racist….no

    Does this help bring to light the double standard in America…You bet your ass it does

    In the end this game is being made representing the historically black colleges in the US. To be a historically black college it had to have been founded bfore Schools were forced to integrate. Any university created after is called a “Predominately Black University”.

    But I digress, on both sides of this issue are morons. Those who claim racism without knowing the history, and those who claim no racism because they think we want to say words like “Nigger” and “Fag”. Well I don’t like to use those words. But I don’t like being called a “Cracker” either. Partially because I’m part black and indian, even though my skin is white, and partially because I don’t think anyone should be given preferential treatment to call anyone a racist name.

    AKA (I can’t use the “N word” and minorities can’t use the “C word”).

    But think about it like this. The greater the minority, the more you can get away with. If you are a black, aethiest, lesbian woman you can say more than a white, christian, straight male can.

  64. 0

    @Paul, Brian, Tristram (and DoggySpew)

    (This is a very long comment)

    The problem isn’t even the games themselves, but the greater underlying social tension between african americans and caucasian americans. The games just set those tensions off / give them an outlet to be expressed.

    Like when Jack Thompson or Yee go on a ‘moral’ rampage, there is nothing to really say to them about the game, or gaming in general to make a point. They have their beliefs, and those beliefs are the point of argument.

    look at the game we are talking about. I haven’t seen anyone say a game about black college foot ball teams should not be made (though I am sure some people think that). What I have seen is many people argue that a social double standard exists. Then we see two sides try to qualify why the game is/is not legit based on two different criteria: Contextual value (historical reality) vs. Social impact (Double standard against equality)

    I think this is a social debate, which the video game is stuck in (for no fault of its own). We can all agree there is social tension between blacks and whites in this country, and we can all agree that this topic has been the center piece of many comments in this thread.

    If we don’t look at the larger issue (social equality) and instead focus on a completely legitimate game, that we have nothing to debate (because the game is legitimate for it’s own non social reasons).

    @ Tristram specifically

    I’m not sure I understand what you are disagreeing with? I support this game as a cultural outlet designed for the AA consumer.

    The double standard that I find dangerous is when the AA community raises complaints (per Resident Evil 5). In doing that, the AA community makes the Caucasian community feel threatened and / or insulted, which results in more racism.

    This is not an issue of being muffled, but rather being insulted. Resident Evil 5 (and I apologize for using this example too much) was not created with racist intent. If Resident Evil 5 was set in Los Angeles, I would be out there with a protest sign myself, but it wasn’t. No more than BCF was. Regardless it was attacked as such, and the result is that whites feel labeled as racists unjustly.

    What concerns me, is this feeling that blacks are everyones’ target. I agree that blacks face a great challenge, but presenting the community as a target of other communities promotes the idea that blacks are just victims.

    As I mentioned before, I live in Baltimore City and my family is involved in the public schools and one of the greatest challenges black children face in our education system is themselves. Regardless of race, If a child feels that he is a victim, and will never amount to anything no matter what, he will not try hard in school, and thus fulfill his own expectations (of failure).

    Again, my concern here is that the black community oppresses itself by accepting (and promoting) the double standard. By saying: we are held down, we are the victim, and making that the justification for being treated differently from the rest of the population, the community stays different, stays feared, and subsequently stays oppressed.

    This is the cyclic nature DoggySpew is touching on: by focusing on the community as a victim, and promoting that community’s advancement only, the presenter is making a racist statement. He is saying the NAACP is bad because it approves discrimination and race-focused matters (which are racist by book definition) in order to bring blacks “up”.

    I do not oppose the NAACP because US politics and culture is set up the same way, so the organization has no other way to go forward. Still, by book definition, it is technically racist (even if “in a good way”).

    Does that make sense?

  65. 0
    Neeneko says:


    I think the real core here, when you get past all the stereotypes, rhetoric, etc, is people do not like being told how to feel. And that is exactly what happens in these situations.

    One has the right to be offended by something, one does not have the right to tell others that they have no right to be offended.

  66. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    No they don’t, for exactly the reasons both you and I posted. An analogy isn’t supposed to be perfect, it’s just supposed to get the pertanent facts across without nessesitating a freaking wall of text.

  67. 0
    ZippyDSMlee ( User Karma: -1 ) says:

    I find the racial arguments over this to be race card burning to just burn something, if ti was whites only I’d say the say thing.

    In the end its a Ethnic/Social/Cultural Football game thats no worse than the “standard” Football Culture, and if its hiphop based it might even be damaging to it, then again hiphop is like country for white people :P.

  68. 0
    Father Time ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    but those arguments do apply. Just because the weaker ones had been picked on before doesn’t mean they get to turn around and do the exact same thing. Two wrongs do not make a right, as the saying goes. Also your analogy is flawed because not all white people are bullies who pick on the blacks, and not all white people are superior to blacks, there are a lot of white men who are worse off than your average black man and vice versa.

    Also you shouldn’t use internet slang to parody our arguments because you are implying that we are brainless idiots who would use that kind of slang and that is rude (it’s also an ad hominen attack, which is very frowned upon in debates).

  69. 0
    nightwng2000 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “Stop the hate and investigate.”

    How about this:
    Stop the hate, don’t segregate.

    But, hey, if you TRULY want to segregate yourself based on race, religion, gender, sexuality, or any other group of Humanity, be my guest. I’ll stick with the segment of society that prefers Unified Diversity.

    But, also understand, that those who chose to segregate have absolutely ZERO argument points to make against any other group that chooses to segregate. Anyone attempting to do so, makes themselves look hypocritical, ignorant, bigoted. There is truly no logical, intelligent argument that can be made to advocate the segregation of one sub-group (such as one race vs another or one gender vs another, for example) while condemning the segregation of another.

    As for me, I don’t hold one individual’s negative opinions, beliefs, or actions to be a negative impact on any segment of the rest of society. I don’t hold Fred Phelp’s actions against heterosexuals. I don’t hold Eric Rudolph’s or John Bruce Thompson’s actions against Christians (though I have used John Bruce’s actions to make “Devil’s Advocate” arguments).
    I don’t hold Al Sharpton’s actions or the NAACP’s actions against the African American community. I don’t hold David Duke, the KKK, or the Neo-Nazi’s actions against European Americans. I don’t hold Osama Bin Lauden’s or any of his followers’ actions against Muslims. And many others I could list as well. They are solely responsible for their own actions, irregardless of WHAT justification they want to pass the responsibility of their action on to.

    Segregate if you want. But don’t expect sympathy or support if someone else chooses to segregate as well and you don’t like it.

    If you want a Black Panthers FPS that rivals the Neo-Nazi “Ethnic Cleansing”, be my guest. I wouldn’t be interested in either anyway. But, hey, knock yer self out. Ya wanna make single race football games? Knock yer self out. Ya wanna make a women’s only football game? Knock yer self out. Ya wanna make a football game that includes ANY type of individual, including men AND women? Knock yer self out.

    But don’t bitch and complain because you only want it YOUR way and your way ONLY.

    NW2K Software

  70. 0
    Tom ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m greatly offended by this game because it spells “experience” “Xperience.” Where is the outrage!

    As to the rest, though: anyone who says that someone can’t say something for whatever reason is an idiot. Ohma, I’m looking at you. Certainly certain people saying certain things is offensive, ignorant and unacceptable in polite society, but it is equally offensive, ignorant and unacceptable to suggest that there are things that certain people can just never say.

    The game itself is actually a great stride for games in that it presents a ubiquitous aspect of society, football, from the unique cultural standpoint of the black experience. I like that idea because it expands the scope of gaming and, hopefully, will expand the perception of what gaming is.

    As to the racial debate – murky waters to step into if there ever were any – haven’t we reached a point where various racial, cultural and economic groups can stand up and debate for themselves without requiring “champions” to continually modify the playing field and change the rules so that there is an illusion of equality? The ugly truth is that the propensity to be racist and to stereotype is an innate aspect of human nature but the beauty of the stronger socializing aspects of humanity is that they can make a person exist beyond the bounds of the worst of themselves. It isn’t wrong that we see a certain type of person and have an immediate reaction, it’s wrong if we act on that reaction without any consideration of its merits.

  71. 0
    Sharpless says:

    Personally, I think it’s your friend who is overreacting. While black colleges were once necessary, they aren’t anymore. I think they subtly encourage segregation, or at least a subconsciously segregating frame of mind. If we are supposed to be equal, shouldn’t we all be in the same schools? In the same video games? I don’t think this does anything positive, much in the same way that people like Al Sharpton can overplay their hand and do more damage than good. Essentially, I feel there are double standards at play, here. I’m tired of this nonsense. It’s 2007 and we don’t need this anymore. It’s bullshit.

  72. 0
    jccalhoun ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Do any of you saying things about “white college football” know anything about historically black colleges and the experience of their football games? The reason why there is going to be a game about Black College Football is that the culture of football games at these schools — the experience of them if you will — is pretty different from the culture of football games at most other colleges.

    I hate college football and I hate most sports videogames but this game sounds like it might be interesting to be because, at least from the title and splash page of the website, it looks like it is going to be about more than plays and touchdowns. That sounds a lot more interesting to me than Madden 08 or whatever football game.

  73. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “Well if you base your argument off an analogy and he points out several flaws in it and blasts the analogy then I say that’s a good counterpoint.”

    Only if the flaws you point out actually apply to the real life situation the analogy is describing. Since “The Ethnic/Social Majority” and “Ethnic/Social Minorities” are not in reality just two kids who can be watched by a single adult or givin a time out (they are millions of people watched over by their fellows who happen to be in positions of power), the the idea that that is what should happen isn’t a valid critisicem.
    If it were than the whole point of distilling an argument into an analogy (to provide a succinct, if not entirely accurate summary of an argument, rather than a long dissertation on all the different variables involved) would be defeated.

    And why sould I stop paroding bad arguments with “interweb” speak exactly?

  74. 0
    Kyouryuu says:

    Oh, so that’s what Nerjyzed is working on. Hmm. Unreal 3 might be halfway decent at a sports game… who knows.

    While at first I would agree that the “Well, if you called it White College Football people would be up in arms about it” (and don’t deny it, people would be), I don’t see them as having much choice. That’s the name it has been given. That’s how people refer to it.

    Nerjyzed’s workaround, an entirely plausible one, is to emphasize the BCFX initials on the box. Acronyms hide the meaning behind things. See also NAACP and BET. If the game became popular, you can bet people will refer to it as BCFX.

    The Battle of the Bands is a really cool idea, I’ll give them that. :)

  75. 0
    Father Time ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Well if you base your argument off an analogy and he points out several flaws in it and blasts the analogy then I say that’s a good counterpoint.

    Oh and so far the only person who is saying stuff like “I r teh win” is you so I suggest you stop.

  76. 0
    J-Guy says:

    I think that those gamers were getting back for the RE5 dilemma. I don’t condone the way they went about it, though. Insults and accusations don’t paint a good image for gamers, and we cannot afford to have another person (journalist, in this case) against us.

  77. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    *sigh* I’m not getting into one of these frakking “well if your analogy is completely true then blah blah blah lol I r teh win argument” arguments.

  78. 0
    DoggySpew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    I don’t know what exactly you mean with it. Person B says only one thing: That people should have equal priviledges.
    But Person B should also add that everyone has to obey the same set of rules.
    The Bully is not allowed to kick the weak kid, but the weak kid is also not allowed to kick the bully.
    Sure, the bully should be punished for his behaviour. But that does not mean that the weak kid is allowed to do more stuff then the bully if the bully has stopped bullying.

  79. 0
    CrazyBlue ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “If there was an all-white football game, there would be an uproar!” Says it all! And it’s not a racist coment either! I am sick of how political correctness is going! It should go both ways! The blacks can’t have it all! We’ve changed why can’t they!? I’m just glad the whole thing with Resi 5 has died down!

  80. 0
    Paul ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Damn, who wants to bet that now we’ll get a Jack Thompson comment saying “aghhh video games obviously make you a racist prick! It’s been scientifically proven!!!”

  81. 0
    DoggySpew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    I meant their name. True, from their background it is understandable, but that does not change the fact that if such racist injustice happens to “non-coloured” people, the NAACP is not the organisation to call to.

    But better yet, there is no such thing as a non-coloured human. Everyone has a colour. White people are not “white”, just look at them. It is more a light beige, with pinkish undertones.
    “Black” does also not exist. Even the blackest person I’ve met has got more of a very dark brown, with beige undertones.

    It is only pigmentation. And it is quite idiotic that people have been discriminated against, just by higher concentrations of melanin in their skincells.

  82. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “The concept of “Because we got punished, we deserve better treatment then the rest” is plain BS. You deserve EQUAL treatment, not better treatment.”

    And see here’s the thing, if you had a race where the majority of the drivers advertised for this one brand, and that brand wouldn’t support any of the other drivers, and furthermore some of the supported drivers intentionally sabotaged or drove really offensively around the non-supported drivers, and the brand gave the supported drivers a bunch of crap to add onto their cars (nitrous oxide ect.), while at the same time the non-supported drivers couldn’t even afford that because they aren’t supported by that brand, you wouldn’t get a fare race.

    To quote a conversation where someone said it less disjointedly than I:

    Person A:”What the fuck is it with members of the most powerful, privileged group in America feigning moral outrage over “double standards” that don’t go in their favour? For years, we have treated whites calling blacks “niggers” differently than blacks calling whites “honkies” or “crackers”, for the simple reason that when a bully kicks the weak kid, you react differently than when the weak kid kicks the bully. Is this really so hard to comprehend?”

    Person B:”Except, and here’s the thing, I’m all for everyone having the same priviledges as everyone else. “

    Person A:”Gee, that would be a wonderful sentiment if people actually started on a level playing field, wouldn’t it? But since they don’t, then your attitude merely helps preserve the status quo. “

  83. 0
    Father Time ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Watch as the Resident Evil 5 debate rises from the dead. It’s the monster that will never go away.

    Anway if there really were black only football leagues than what does it matter that we make a game out of it. Yes a white college football game would cause an uproar, but oh well.

  84. 0
    Hadradi ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    The only surprise I can see in this debate is that Rob Watson has “always bragged about how smart you gamers are and how open-minded and kindhearted you’ve been in terms of how the world works.” Wow, what a great way to set yourself up for a disappointment! Gamers are not a monolithic society that miraculously lacks basic, ignorant human fallacies. How can mutual interest in a hobby affect one’s opinions about the world, or even eliminate preconceived biases unrelated to that hobby? Has he just now glanced at gamer forums? The objections to BCF:TX are based on plain ignorance of the valuable role black colleges played in American history, even if some scholars think that they have become obsolete (an issue I’ll let black folks and relevant academics debate as I’m in no position to have an opinion on the subject).The internet is a nasty place, and with all due respect, it is Rob Watson who looks ridiculous for saying “Some of you let me down over the last couple of weeks.”

    While you are correct in pointing out that objections to this game are based on false logic, you ruin your argument by resorting to name calling and questioning the legitimacy of those with whom you disagree. There can be no intelligent discussion of an issue if terms such as “idiot WASP gamer boys” are thrown into the mix. In future it’s best to use the golden rule in debates, especially online ones: don’t treat those you disagree with any differently than you would want them to treat you. Every time I’ve gotten into trouble online is when my emotions have caused me to forget this basic rule.

    I was thinking of posting something along those lines, but I clearly couldn’t have said it better. Bravo!

  85. 0
    GoodRobotUs ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Personally, I’d say three things from watching the in-game video…

    1: The only colour issue in sport is stay away from guys with different coloured shirts.
    2: The UT3 Engine has looked better.
    3: Nerjyzed need a name that doesn’t sound like a Dr Who. bad guy.

    Other than that, I’ll say no differently from the Evil Dead Africa scene, if you’re playing a game where either the social or environmental format means a lot of non-whites, then I don’t really see a problem with it.

  86. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “As long as we do not allow legitimate complaints from both sides, we’re just perpetuating this view point (and letting that community oppress itself through ignorance)”

    And once the “ZOMG REVERSE RACISM111” side has a legitamate complaint, I’ll listen. But so long as all they have is “well why can’t white guys do/say blank???111” then I’ll keep responding with “Well guess what! ZOMG CONTEXT!”.

  87. 0
    Tristram says:

    @ DoggySpew

    Your logic is flawed, good sir. The advancement of colored people is not inherently racist… to approach equal rights one must advance from ones position behind. Since things are arguably not equal yet, there is still a legitimate reason for “advancement.”

  88. 0
    DoggySpew ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I have a more “Dutch” point of view here, considering that we have not dealt with the same racial issues as the US did.

    Considering the concept of an “Blacks only” game, it is inherently racist from the start. However, comments like : “Why do they need their own game?” are also counterproductive.

    The concept of “Because we got punished, we deserve better treatment then the rest” is plain BS. You deserve EQUAL treatment, not better treatment.
    This is also the reason why I am against the NAACP. Not because they fight racism, which is good, but because it is inherently racist to organisations name: National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
    It should be: National Association for the Advancement of All People, or National Association Against Racism.

    The most obvious counter to racism is plain simple: Mingle. Mingle alot.

  89. 0
    EOTD says:

    I’m not gonna comment on the racial stuff.

    But I am going to say that, as a marching band performer all through high school, that “Battle of the Bands” feature makes me happy. Like REALLY happy. Marching band is just as tough as football, if not tougher, especially at the college and professional levels. Maybe this will give it a little more exposure (though I’m still holding out for a separate game – I can hope).

  90. 0
    Tristram says:


    I respect that fact that you write intelligently, without resorting to rhetoric, and avoiding logical fallacies as a point of argument. As such, I respect your argument. I do not, however, agree with it. This is because black people still need boosting. White people do not. There may come a day when we do, but it is not today.

    Blacks were discriminated against by the white majority. We all know this. Interestingly, as the number of people of Hispanic origins grow in the states, they too are discriminatory against the blacks. While Hispanics do not have control of a power structure with which to marginalize blacks, it still exists within the community. Black Americans seem to be a target to everyone.

    You speak well of black kids in schools. It is even worse that often the black community itself keeps kids from performing well in school. To be educated is to “try to be white” etc.

    How does this relate to the game? It doesn’t. What it relates to is your argument that complaints from both sides are legitimate. The white voice is not muffled. The white perspective is not hidden. Therefore, there is no reason for the white voice to complain about being muffled or hidden. This game is not stifling the white voice; it is projecting the black one. A white College Football game WOULD be stifling the black voice, especially because there are no “white” colleges, at least officially.

    As for RE5, the game itself was not racist. The problem was that the it evoked racist imagery in the minds of some people. This is a fair criticism. the context response was also fair. The scary part was how many people resorted to racist rhetoric to attack the woman from Black Looks.

    @BB You have it exactly right. “Black-College Football” is different than “Black College-Football”. Since there are no white colleges, you could not have “White-College Football”… so it would have to be “White College-Football” and this would be excluding.

  91. 0
    Volcanman says:

    I don’t find it racist, I just find it slightly arrogant. I mean, look at what happened with RE5, there was a conundrum about how “the white man is putting the black man down”. I mean, why is it that with that game, it was called racist by black people, yet this one it’s praised? It’s a double standard I hate. I say that if black people want to be treated equal in media, then STFU when they’re represented in any slightly negative way (i.e. RE5), and then I won’t say jack when a game like this pops up around the corner.

  92. 0
    Brian ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Gavin

    I think that people are making a mole hill into a mountain over this. This isn’t a racial debate, this is a video game that features African American Sports Conferences that aren’t featured in EA’s NCAA game. I can only speculate that these conferences aren’t in EA Tiburon’s game due to they’re smaller conferences. The irony is that the match up I mentioned earlier, FAMU/BCC, is played annually in the same metro area that Tiburon is located in, Orlando. This has nothing to do with racial tensions, it’s purely about an alternative video game coming out that showcases the teams that EA didn’t put into their product.

  93. 0
    Paul says:

    I think I agree with Tristram over this. That, yes, it’s a double-standard (an all-white game would cause some kind of outcry) but one with historical basis, one that (as a mixed-race person) I think hardly really affects us.

    Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but in our country’s history, blacks have had it pretty bad. As a result, even after the problem was “solved” (with Civil Rights, etc.) they still hung onto traditions, and many of the communities and traditions they formed remained.

    So guess what? They had colleges almost entirely comprised of other black people, and their football games had different cultural elements than NCAA Division I did at the time. What’s wrong with making a game about it?

    Would you feel better if we added white people? Balanced it out? It would look really silly and completely tacked-on, because truthfully, there weren’t many of them there.

    Besides, how would you form an “All-White” college football game (the hypothetical one we keep referring to)? Wow, it would look a lot like our NCAA games, but with white players. This game isn’t so much “our players are black!” but more “this is football in mostly-black colleges! Oh yeah, and the players are black.”

    This is the USA, we can make any games we want. There would be an outcry over our all-white game, but really, no one would stop you from producing it.

  94. 0
    Thefremen says:

    I hardly think this is anymore offensive than making a football game which glorifies OJ Simpson and his murderous antics.

    Besides, Football is already 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% black.

  95. 0

    @ Tristram

    I understand the context of the game, and support it for that reason. My assertion is that if we support the double standard (by not letting white gamers criticism a black only game) we are still supporting the double standard which hurts the USA so badly.

    I also assert that part of the problem with the argument in general, is that the two sides rarely argue the same thing (see my last post).

    I’m more interested in the discussion from an academic perspective. As Ohma rightly points out, as a upper class white business owner, this game doesn’t really effect me socially and I’d I hope I am educated enough (and liberal enough) to know that

  96. 0

    @ Ohma

    I agree that it is silly for white males to complain, but the greater issue is that we perpetuate the idea that blacks/gays/women ARE second rate, by letting them complain in a double standard.

    We see it here in Baltimore’s Public School system all the time: kid’s choose to get in fights, skip class, and not work because they feel (and I’ve witnessed this testimony) “Because they are black, they aren’t going to be able to get anywhere anyway”.

    As long as we do not allow legitimate complaints from both sides, we’re just perpetuating this view point (and letting that community oppress itself through ignorance)

    Still, half of your comments have been intentionally inflammatory / out to start a fight which does not help your case. If you present yourself as a blustering ignorant person, it is difficult for people to see your points past “you as an enemy”. That perpetuates racisms (by justifying ‘white fear’) as much as ‘white power’ does

    @ Brian

    there isn’t anything wrong with the title, or even the subject matter. A game about black football players is completely fine. So is a game about white football players, or frnech soccer players.

    The issue is from the racial tensions associated with the represented. Whites are privileged in the US. As the privileged class, whites are supposed to accept that promoting their own racial group, in any way, will lead to conflict. Likewise, whites are supposed to accept that non whites are free to promote their own social groups in ways whites cant. This is an “Okay, we’re on top. So you get some freebies” principle.

    Over time, the white community has gotten tired of the systems impact. Look at the Resident Evil 5 debate: non whites complained the zombies were black, being killed by a white character for social reasons, whites found this ‘over the line’ because the game is set in Africa (where white zombies would be less common).

    The big problem with the RE5 debate is that there are two totally unrelated view points. Non whites argue social injustice, Whites argue contextual logic. Since they aren’t talking about the same thing, the debate leads no where, and then crops up again here with a new game. Now its non whites arguing contextual logic (black colleges with black football teams exist in a historical context) and whites are arguing social injustice.

  97. 0
    Tristram says:

    Double post maybe.

    @Gavin Schmitt, MacBoy, and others

    The reason is a point of history. If historically African nations had populated North America using European criminals and war prisoners as slaves, and created an institution of slavery and discrimination designed to keep white people out of most of the opportunities available to the black majority that has lasted unto the present, then there would be no outcry for a white only game and a black only game would be met with public outrage. Assuming history has taken the same course.

    But this is not the case. The difference between these, then, is that never has a black only anything within the mainstream been created to exclude white people. They were created as the only places where blacks could do the same things as whites. As Ohma said, these are traditions that have endured and hung on. This game is ABOUT those traditions.

    It is a double standard. But, it exists and it exists precisely because of all the double standards that used to benefit white people. A white College Football game would serve not to bring white people into the forefront of an issue, but to marginalize non white people. A black College Football game is not marginalizing whites because whites do not exist in the margins. This is because of history. Instead, a Black College Football game serves to put black people at the forefront of the issue and to show something that has historically existed in the margins.

    Also, I suspect there is a huge cultural difference between all black colleges and the majority of colleges, which tend to be mostly white by sheer force of proportions. In this way, this is not a “black race” game but a “black culture” game.

  98. 0
    truepatriot says:

    you have to be stupid to think that this game is about them being black.it has schools that are historically black and cant make into EAs ncaa games.whats so bad about them wanting to be noticed?hell before this game was announced i didnt even know most of these schools existed.If some of you want schools that are historically white to be feature go buy ncaa games lol.

  99. 0
    Tristram says:

    I don’t think black is modifying “football”, I think it is modifying “college.” There are still black colleges (I think)…not white ones. So instead of getting hung up on the race thing, see that it is just focusing on these colleges and not trying to oppress white people or “remove the white perspective” or whatever.

    For the record, this is a sports game I would actually buy.

  100. 0

    I am curious why Rob feels gamers are generally smart, open minded, and kind people? As individuals that may be the case, but as a collective, gamers are deeply divided by brand loyalties and personal preference. This isn’t specific to gamers — almost any multi-factioned community is the same way. Just watch a Democrat “fan boy” go after a Republican “fan boy” and watch how stupid / rhetorical the arguments get.

    I suppose we gamers may have a slight advantage in that when we are ‘under attack’ by Conservatives, the arguments we have to make to defend the media are more “just”. Our argument is that we should be free to play whatever games we want, the same way we can worship (or not) whatever theology we want.

    Where it gets rhetorical, is when you bring in “as long as no one else gets hurt”, because no one having this argument is a research scientist, and no one credible is paying to have research done.

    Still, gamer’s are generally under fire from an oppressor, and not an equal (like Democrats vs Republicans). That should slants the righteousness in our favor, but judging by how the anti-Gay, anti-Black, anti-Mexican, anti-war, anti-education fights are going, I guess the general public doesn’t think so.

    As for the actual topic at hand, I can understand Rob’s dissapointment to how the points were probably worded (having experienced plenty of 15 year old racists turned ‘critics’ on XBox live), but I think PlayItBogart said it right (and first): Why is it not legitimate to make these points?

    There is no reason an all African American Football video game can’t be made, but then why cant an all black-zombie game be made without complaint from the AA community?

  101. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Yeah, because historically, the only reason for whites-only leagues has been to *oppress* black people and keep mainstream sports free of them. Black-only leagues were formed so that black people would be able to play basketball too, and have lingered out of tradition (whites-only on the other hand, was rightly abandoned and now sports are a rainbow morass of corruption and violence instead of a solely white one).

  102. 0
    Sidewinder says:

    I guess this is the revenge for RE5’s “white man killing black people” gameplay.
    (Note: the above statement is a joke. I personally could not care less about an all black American Football game. Frankly, I don’t care about sports games in general.)

  103. 0
    Rob says:

    Just for the hell of it and to see what kind of reaction it would get someone should start work on an “White College Basketball” game or something and see how that works out. I guarantee there would be a huge backlash over.

  104. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Please what?

    All I said was that there are many “Intartubez Tuff Gaiz111” online who scream “reverse racism111” at the drop of a hat. Furthermore the points that mostly get screeched about are stupid crap like “why can’t I, a 13 year old while male, use the word nigger?!” or “damn, those gays are out of hand, how dare they bar a group of women who had been harrasing them from entering a bar111”, and that those are not the right sides to be on in those arguments if one does not want to be labeled as a bigot.

    Also that everytime I (or anyone else) bring this up, someone helpfully proves the point by posing some baseless accusation along the lines of “Oh, well you’re just an agent of the gay/feminist/black/liberal agenda111 You just want to keep the white male power structure down111”, and that posts like that don’t do much to demonstrate how bigoted I (or whoever else it gets directed at) am (are).

  105. 0
    Dave says:

    Come on now, judging gamers based on forums? You can just as well judge humanity the same way. I dare the author to go to youtube and read comments to the popular videos. Anonymous posting has brought out the worst in society. People say things they would never say in person and it is awful what is said.

    So to do this in a tone of “I thought gamers were smart and open minded…” is out right wrong. Trying to paint ANY one group as less than what they are because of net postings is weak journalism. And here I thought journalists were supposed to be smart and open minded…you let me down… (zing…see what I did there?) :)

  106. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Why yes I do, oh noes, you seem to know everthing about me111 I suppose your next bit of phail will be to tell me that I make the whole black community look bad hmm? Oh you should try a new one, how about: “I bet you like carpet bitch111” or something else equally wrong.

  107. 0
    Brian ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I don’t understand why there is any backlash to a potential college football game. Why call it Black College Football? Well because that’s what it is. These schools and conferences aren’t in NCAA, which is a disappointment. I’d love to be able to play the annual matchup of BCC vs FAMU on a videogame, but at the moment cannot.

  108. 0
    BB says:

    The only thing I see is the word, “football”, but maybe it is more about the “footbal experience”? I don’t think it will boil down to just another football game but that is going to be the main theme.

  109. 0
    Ohma ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Well that’s not surprising. Every time something like this gets covered I get an opportunity to chime in about the fact that there are plenty of idiot WASP gamer boys who eagerly fill nearly every negetive sterotype about them.
    Not even just gamer boys, pretty much any jackass WASP teen who has suddnely realised that *GASP* while it may be acceptable for gay people to affectionatly/jokingly refer to straigt people as breeders, the same is not true of referring to gay people as fags (or something else along those lines), will eagerly post a gorram screed about how “unjust” it is, and how the gay/black/feminist community are just *way* overstepping their bounds.

    Well let me say one thing before I continue to post seven more rambling paragraphs:
    If the greatest injustice you suffer in life is that you can’t use a word that has historically been used as an insult towards the group you would be using it to refer to, then you’re doing pretty gorram well in life.

  110. 0
    chadachada ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    (sry for double post)
    What i meant by the first part, that i don’t like having “Black” college football. It could take place in a place that is mainly black, sure, like detroit or something. But once you stick the word “black” to it, it becomes inherintly more racist, IMO

  111. 0
    chadachada ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m just not very supportive of any game that features any race, purely for the sake of having JUST that race. And I’ve never liked football games anyways, gimme a real pigskin

  112. 0
    PlayItBogart says:

    I don’t see what’s wrong with those kinds of points. Frankly they’d be right, if there was White College Football: The Xperience, there’d be an uproar too.

  113. 0
    F**ked up says:

    As long as the topic of race and creating race related products, racism will always exist.

    Race is such a hot button issue, next will probably be religion, that any instance where there is that superiority complex or social injustice can be read. Racism will always exist.

    And in these days in times I have seen and been on the end of direct racism and indirect racism. I could careless about indirect racism RE 5, This football game, black exploitation movies, etc where it can be seen as racist. And there is direct racism, KKK anyone? Thats the one I care about.
    Can scream racism at every instance of indirect racism where people did not think that it would be racist provided the context. But direct racism is a different story.

    In other words use the Race card when it is necessary, not for every damn little thing because then Racism will always be a hot button issue

    Why do I keep having thoughts from that south park episode “Nigger-man”.
    Or reruns of All in the family

  114. 0
    lumi ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m guessing most of the complaints against this game were simply due to ignorance. I have to admitt, had I simply seen the title and known nothing else, it would not have made a good impression on me, but that’s because I know pratically nothing about College Football and its history and the different leages and divisions and stuff. After reading a little bit more about it, it makes more sense now, and I have no problem with the game. Though I think they should change xperience to experience, but that’s just a pet peeve of mine.

    I’m not happy with the trend of some people here to catergorize anybody who had even a brief qualm about this game as racist or stupid, though. Sure, some of them are, but I’m sure many just didn’t understand the context. If EA were to make “Maddon Black Edition”, and have it be exactly like Maddon, except every non-black player is replaced by a fictional black player, how would people feel? I think many of the people commenting on this game at first assumed it was something like that.

    Everything Mad_Scientist said, to a T. This is precisely what I was going to say.

  115. 0
    Austin Lewis ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    You know Ohma, a lot of the things you have to say indicate that you live either in a completely different world than the real one, or that you’re either A) a complete bigot, on par with the Black Panthers, who were JUST AS WRONG as the KKK, or B) just willing to remain willfully ignorant of changes.

    Its true, there aren’t as many black people with PhDs as there are white, and part of that is the culture; when you have children believing you can make millions off of playing crappy music and talking fast, people are going to go the easy road. Its not only that there’s not as many opportunities (although there aren’t) its that for the most part, black people from all walks of life show more of a disinterest in learning than any other race in America.

    And this isn’t something I made up; this is something that has been proven in 6 school systems observed from a Criminolgical/Sociological perspective.

  116. 0
    Austin Lewis ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “I suppose we gamers may have a slight advantage in that when we are ‘under attack’ by Conservatives, the arguments we have to make to defend the media are more “just”. Our argument is that we should be free to play whatever games we want, the same way we can worship (or not) whatever theology we want. “

    Check the facts Hasselhoff; more anti-gaming legislation has been put forward by the Democrat party than the republicans.

    I have a few things I’d like to say, but first, a little background on me.

    I’m half Native American. You know, that group of people that got marched across our own land and lost thousands along the way.

    The other half is Irish. We were thrown out of our home about 1916 by the British. We came to America and worked on the railroads as they went out west. We would have stayed on the East coast, except we were chased out by the KKK.

    So here’s what I have to say about the whole racism thing.

    Its not nearly the problem its made out to be by minorities; and white males are the most maligned group in America. In college, it was okay when black people called me a cracker, but when I got fed up with it and responded to ‘hey whitey’ with ‘hey blackie’ damn if I didn’t get in trouble.

    Racism is just the ultimate double standard, and here’s the kicker; the people reaping the benefits are the same people who never did anything. You weren’t the one who was forced to work in the fields, just like I never nailed a railroad spike, blasted a mine, or marched with thousands of other Native Americans. While I refuse to demand special benefits because I’m part native american (including turning down 4000 dollars a semester in money for college) I’m still proud of my heritage and the things I learn from it.

    Dr. Martin Luther King worked for EQUALITY, THAT ALL MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN BE EQUAL. He didn’t work for affirmative action. He didn’t work for special treatment. And, pardon my language, but he didn’t work so that BET and hip-hop artists could spout the word “nigga” every 3 seconds.

    As to this game, I do think its wrong. The reason is mainly that if there was a White College Football: The Xperience you know damn well that Jesse Jackson would be marchin around town screaming “RACIST” as loud as he could. But because its for black people, its ok.

    Equality. The one thing which all of us should work towards. THAT PEOPLE BE JUDGED BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER, NOT BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

  117. 0
    RyanT says:

    Methinks Tristram won on the football game front.

    Basically: This is a basketball game that has chosen to represent black college football. I’m in the UK, so I don’t know or get most of the history behind it, but reading most of these comments appears to be pretty informative.

    From what I can gather, this game is focusing on teams/league/whatever that was created to give a particular race a word and some form of expression via sport via colleges that were created to do the same, and that often don’t get this kind of treatment, and don’t get the chance to. There is nothing really inherently wrong or racist about this game I can see. It is simply giving a look in to something the majority often don’t see, and really by no fault of the game creators themselves focuses on racial issues. None of the debate is or has been (even in the comments here) about the game itself, but simply about outside issues and others that really don’t have fuck all to do with the game itself other than it’s particular focus.

    This debate appears to have nothing to do with the game itself, just outside circumstances and opinions.

    Although Ohmas analogy was spot on earlier. There’s no point trying to pick out logical in context or out of context flaws, because then you’ve obviously missed the point.

  118. 0
    Father Time ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    That argument was based off the assumption that Ohman assumed that all white people were better off than the blacks (hence why they were compared to bullys). When I said a lot I was not talking about percents, I was talking about shear raw numbers. I do not know the exact numbers but there are white guys (and girls) who fall under the extreme low end of the wealth spectrum. Whether they out number the blacks that are in that state or not is different (and if blacks only make up 12% of the population that does not seem likely). My point is that not all whites are in the position to even be able to pick on the poor defenseless blacks (if we go back to the bully analogy).

  119. 0
    Conejo says:

    i’d heard of the game prior to GP announcing it.

    you are in an all-black football league.
    you work yourself into a frenzy they call getting “Nerjyzed.”
    during half-time, it’s no time to rest. you have to get out there in the drumline!

  120. 0
    Velkrin says:

    Considering they’ve spelled experience with an X rather than an E I’m more worried about the Game Producer Spelling Experience (to the EXTREME!!).

    Seriously, it was just as stupid in the 90s as it is today.

  121. 0
    Tristram says:

    Ohma’s analogy was actually perfect. The analogy does not rely on all white people being bullies.

    @Father Time
    Your claim that “there are a lot of white men who are worse off than your average black man and vice versa” is dubious at best. 12% of Americans are black. By sheer force of numbers, your claim does not seem to be able to hold up. Unless you are saying that, proportionally, blacks have a much higher representation in the middle classes than whites, your statement cannot be true. There may be a “lot of white men” who are worse off then “your average black man” (which semantically ignores the women of both populations) by sheer number, but per capita this is almost impossible. The poorest places with the highest population in the U.S. are mostly black (and Hispanic). Also, he was technically attacking the argument with his (or her) net speak, not the speaker. Still a logical fallacy if used as proof of its incorrectness, but that in itself was not put forth as proof. While it is not helpful, it is sometimes what it feels like hearing people (not you) post the same arguments again and again without actually advancing them in response to the discussion.

    Resorting to name calling hurts anything else you say. this really goes for everyone.

    I get the feeling that people here do not really understand the concept. Equality does not mean the same thing as “sameness.” Look at it numerically. 3+3 = 4+2. The two sides are not visually identical, but the equal the same thing. In terms of the current debate, equality between the races does not mean identical treatment. Those people who say they want equality for races and want each race treated in the exact same way are suggesting that the circumstances of each race should mirror each other. A group of people who are still statistically marginalized, even in 2007 after years of fighting for equal rights, benefit from a game devoted to their perspective. Why is this? Because their perspective has not been told. The history of early sports tells the white perspective. The history of early colleges tells the white perspective. The perspective coming from these real life black college teams has never been shown before.

    To make this slightly more simple, a white only football game would be more of the same. Maybe not in the case of football, which has a lot of black players, but in general. But a game from the black perspective is something not done before. That is why it is a different situation.

    Another thing to consider: go play some of your games again and look at the race of each and every character you run into. You will find that, generally speaking, they are disproportionately white. In fact up until recently, I cannot think of a single main character from a game that was black outside of a black context. In other words, unless the person is black for the context of the story, they are not black. White is the default race.

    Showing an all black game, therefore, is not racism because it does not serve to marginalize. It serves to bring someone out of the margins. Any claim of racism towards non blacks must show how it serves to marginalize non blacks. A quid pro quo argument is not enough; it is not enough to claim that because it is racist if done by one group then it is also racist when done by another. You must show how it is racist when done by each group. It has already been shown how it is racist when it is done by whites. It has not yet been shown how, when done by blacks, it serves to marginalize whites.

  122. 0
    Kylock says:

    The only thing I have to say is this: There is no such thing as ‘reverse’ racism. Reverse racism implies that whites are the only ‘race’ whom ever committed any acts of racism in the U.S.

  123. 0
    DKH says:

    Tristram, if I may?

    You are right that “blacks” do need boosts and that “whites” do not. That is absolutely true. The problem is that what constitutes blacks and whites are millions upon millions of individuals. As a white male who’s suffered discrimination based on both gender and race, it’s difficult for me to listen to people talk about discrimination in broad terms whether they be white, black, whatever, and whether they’re saying something I agree with, disagree with, whatever. I know many other people, unfortunately mostly white, who tend to agree with me.

    I do NOT deny that I’ve had MANY advantages given to me because of my race, whether it’s immediate or historical, but it does nothing to diminish the sting of racism. When people act as if I could not have suffered or am lying or exaggerating, it makes me that much more entrenched in my own wellfare and makes me that much less inclined to help other groups. It’s ugly, it’s a flaw, and I hope you understand I don’t mean to say it’s acceptable. It is, however, an unfortunate personal truth.

    The white moderate like myself IS muffled because we’re overshadowed by jackasses who simply pretend that discrimination against blacks is all but a thing of the past and we need to get rid of affirmative action, etc. Christ, no! I think all people in this country must work hard to bring people who are stepped on up, but I still want a voice of my own. I want people to understand that I’m not pretending I have it hard but I HAVE had hardships due to racism.

    The moderates are muffled and it becomes necessary to simply be louder, angrier, and ruder to get people to even acknowledge you.

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