If you are interested in checking out video game stories, you should definitely check this out. Somebody sent me a website which provides the real story behind Kane and Lynch. It's a very interesting site. www.peterstack7.com

@PHOENIXZERO

He was still approved by the state to carry and use a gun.

Jack Thompson visiting this site is like DEREK SMART traversing sites that post press releases for his games. To both guys do you honestly think you aren't going to receive grief from the same people you try and shill your crap to? People hate you and your scams.

“If you constantly get yourself involved in these video competitions, it becomes a way of life,”
.........
FUCK YES!

Finally the proof I have been looking for! MLG causes gang violence! MLG IS THE DEVIL! I CAN FINALLY DESTROY MAJOR LEAGUE GAMING ONCE AND FOR ALL.



Sorry.. yes bullshit. Bad word choice most likely. Still utter bullshit by someone who only understands the issue from one perspective, and doesn't even understand it fully.

I honestly think this guy is just looking for answers.

Of course! I can't believe we didn't see it before! The link between violent games and gang violence is just as strong as the link between bread and violent criminals! After all, anoyone who has committed a violent crime during their life has also eaten bread at some point, so there must but an undeniable link.

Idiot.

[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptGP: It’s unclear how Chief Jordan arrived at his conclusion regarding the supposed link between video games and gang activity. However, Grossman is a popular speaker on the law enforcement lecture circuit. … [...]

quite how these people manage to make the jump from:
'criminals like computer games'
to:
'games cause people to become criminals'
i'll never know...

Now if gaming was something that only criminals did he might have a point, but to say this when gaming is about as popular as tv viewing is for most people it gets idiotic.

the 'bread' comment above is spot on! Though maybe it should be extended to milk as well, all criminals must have drank milk at some point in their lives. Damn though violence-inducing cows ;)

*those*

damn typo :)

does anyone think over about what they say these days? i mean, does he realize how stupid that sounds? "i joined a gang because i saw it some dude in a video game do it!". if i said that as a reason for joining a gang i would get fucking shot.

Although I don't agree with this quote, I think he really has a point when he says parents should "watch what their kids watch and play what their kids play". He recognizes it's the role of parents to monitor their kids' screen time, and IMO we can all agree with him on this.

"1. Make it illegal for RETAILERS to sell mature games/books/films to children. Targeting developers is putting the ass before the cart. This has the benefit of not infringing on freedom of speech"

Whilst i agree on the targeting the developers part, i still fail to see how making it illegal helps at all.
(this is from a british citizen, where 18 rated games are enforced by law)

The vast majority of games that end up in the hands of too-young players are brought for them by their parents/relatives. Making it illegal won't change a thing except getting the occasional low-paid store clerk slapped with a huge fine.

As has said time and time again, the responsibility is with the parents, nothing else can help this.

Making videogames illegal doesn't help at all. Honestly, if age-inappropriate movies and music and books and other forms of art could not legally be sold to minors (they all can), there would be no problem with adding videogames to the list.

The problem is that individually targeting videogames to not be sold to children is just as illegal as targeting any of those other media forms, and contrary to this man's completely out-of-the-blue contention, there is considerably less data connecting video games to violence than there is connecting any one of those other forms of media to violence--and that despite all the recent efforts to demonize games.

Ok, scratch that, the real problem is idiots in positions of authority jumping on video games as the cause to crimes because they don't realize that a ridiculously small percentage of all gamers commit these sort of severe crimes--and don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure there was a study comparing the percentages of non-gamers who commit crimes compared to the percentage of gamers, and there was a statistically significant difference: the non-gamers are much more likely to commit crimes. Do I know this? No, I think I read it in an official government webpage, so I SAY that this is only what I THINK instead of coming across as stating fact.

Do we go around pointing to this type of data as evidence to criminalize NOT gaming? More importantly, do we use our professional positions as platforms through which to make unfounded claims which have no basis in reality or for which we have no conclusive studies? No, because it's downright immoral, and incredibly unprofessional (and, for a cop, a betrayal to those who trust you to be honest and informed about your subjects) to so wrongfully let people THINK that you know what you're talking about.

When a cop or a politician in particular says something like this, the people listening tend to assume they are saying something with the force of law behind it, something which has been conclusively demonstrated to be true, and something that they know a considerable amount about. This man, by making such a claim in the absence of actual evidence or studies, has just done an incredible disservice to the people he was speaking to, and all who will read that quote.

Thank you, Chief Jordan, for misinforming the people who trust you and furthering yet another bias so that even more people come to believe that video games are rare and inexplicable and that anyone who plays them is only a ticking time bomb and the most likely suspect in any crime. Jerk.

Ed Bradly pointed out to the national audience on the 60 Minutes segment about our GTA/Cop-Killing case that a gang of Oakland carjackers literally trained on GTA: Vice City, according to the Homicide Division.

It is clear from the above that the only person not paying attention in this debate is Dennis McCauley.

Jack Thompson

Another lie from Jack Thompson, why should we be surprised.

Jack, you're the one not paying attention, since there's still no absolute proof, only conjecture and hearsay.

Practice what you preach, Metropolitian Moron of Miami: Grow up and get a life.

"Shut the fuck up, you're out of your element." - Walter, The Big Lebowski

*DON'T REGISTER?

(damn no edit)

@JT

Yes. They learned to drive a car, load and reload guns, clean guns, handle recoil, all from a game which has no clear portrayal of any of that.

Pull your head out of your ass. Well, I WOULD suggest it if your anus hadn't permanently grown around your head.

Years playing video games: 8
Gangs Joined: 0
Murders of Police officers: 0
Ya, i definitely see a conection there. I wonder how much research he actually did, and im relatively certain gangs play video games because their IN the gang, not in a gang because of video games.

Jack Thompson,

playing a video game doesn't make me any more of a murderer than being an attorney makes you a moral, ethical, and professional person.

“If you constantly get yourself involved in these video competitions, it becomes a way of life,” he said."

Yeah, it becomes a way of life, the gamers way of life. A gamer and a gang member are quite different. Just listen to any rap song and then to the "teh noob song". Anyone else find a slightly different usage of words?

@jack thompson

It's October 8th
Tomorrow is important
Enjoy your last days

Grand Theft Auto has made me no more a car thief than Cooking Mama has made me a master chef.

The End.

Do even know yet if any of these gang members played video games? Or do they just hope they did?

So I take it that somewhere in the inner city right now, street gangs are having LAN parties?

Huh, I wonder why they're not advocating less biased and more accurate news in newspapers (and more on the internet) and television so young people will even remotely care about those oldsters' concerns?

Oh, yeah, we've all had this conversation. The desire is to legislate all childhood activities because the old folks don't trust or understand new-fangled shinies. Maybe if they started emulating the churches using Halo to draw the crowds, they would inadvertently witness how far-off their claims are.

I still don't see how there is clear evidence of a link between violent videogames and gang activity. Oh, wait, I know--the presence of video games is all that's needed to incriminate them in any violent crime committed by violent criminals in violent gang willing to ice all the cops before they ever played GTA.

Of course it's obvious to all of "them" that the mere existence of these infernal gaming machines is a threat to society and the youth. Just like, despite the impossibility, GTA is so obviously the tool to teach real-life violence and skills (such as shooting and screeching driving).

Who needs a degree from a fancy law school to become a lawyer? I've got Phoenix Wright!
Who needs hours of practice to become an NBA star? I've got a collection of EA Sports titles!
WHO NEEDS TO GO TO CULINARY SCHOOL, I'VE GOT BURGER TIME!!!

Look ma, I'm training for a career here!

I dunno, I've been playing a lot of Eternal Sonata lately and I've noticed that I've become a master pianist. Maybe Jack is on to something with his video game training!

Well, beyond the outlandish claim that games make gangs, he made a few good points about parental responsibility.

Simple fact of the matter is, though, too many people in the world (yes, the world) have played video games. The crime rate has gone down since then, and I don't really think that there's that many more gangs, either. Out of the millions of gameplayers out there, a, incredibly miniscule fraction of 1% of them have turned to crime and gangs. Therefore, games cannot be blamed. That many people with different lives and you're going to say that the least important factor in their life is the cause?

Take the nature vs. nurture argument? Do you believe that some people are born crazy and murderous because their DNA says that their brain should be wired in a way that says "Yay killing!"
Or do you believe that children learn everything, including their personality, from the things their exposed to? Videogames can't possibly fall into this since most children in the developmental stages of growth can't even comprehend videogames, let alone play them.

You're a parent, you let your kid out until all hours, to do whatever he/she wants, to join a "gang" and skip school...

On the other end you have a police force with a major problem of kids running rampant and you, as the chief of police, are charged with indentifying key factors in how to combat this problem...


yeah I can see how video games play a role... much the way weapons of mass distruction played a role in Iraq

"Ed Bradly pointed out to the national audience on the 60 Minutes segment about our GTA/Cop-Killing case that a gang of Oakland carjackers literally trained on GTA: Vice City, according to the Homicide Division".

"literally trained"? Are you sure you don't want to come back with a sentence that's even more ridiculous? Can I literally train with Simcity to become a mayor? Or literally train with Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney to become a lawyer? If so, you should pick up a game at your nearest Best-Buy Jack, it shouldn't be hard to find, it sold more copies than your book did.

Again this is another person saying games are bad with no solid proof.

It was a joke i love video games and voilence just not together

thompson, you suck at life.

@Conejo

Did you see the response to our posts on the news article?

And by "clear link" I mean I have a really strong gut feeling that I'm right about this.

Two things here that the police chief in question and JT should really consider before they run their mouths like idiots. The first is that what harvests an environment for gangs more than anything media can be held responsible for is an assortment of negative conditions that we as a society fail to address often that are specifically targeting young people. A lack of an adequate and supportive education system, a mostly non-existent system of low-income recreation programs around the country (or failure to make use of facilities and resources alloted to target these at-risk youths), a culture of work and parental responsibility leaving children to be raised by other children and in some cases their television sets, and any number of other societal issues that further affect the viable options young people see themselves having. Additional factors range from identity, peer pressure, youth culture, to self-fulfilling prophecies (the looking glass self). This last one, the creation of a version of themselves to fit what society expects (a cop out in the worst degree agreed) is in part shaped by how law enforcement and other adults treat youth in general. Assuming all youth are in gangs, are thugs, or are up to now good, generally assures a handful of them will live up to that diminished expectation. I have volunteered in both the at-risk youth and the recreation field so I know what I'm talking about. If you don't give youth options other than running the streets and causing mayhem (and no one forces them to if they lack restraint), then you leave them to the wolves. If their parents aren't doing their jobs and the school is reinforcing the notion that they have nothing left to lose, it only makes it easier to break the norms we try to enforce by laws. Most of the youth in the juvenile courts are there out of boredom, stupidity, or merely trying to get someone to notice them.

Secondly, the obvious fact that these mature titles are adult titles that are not made for youth should be underscored into each of the naysayers foreheads. Free choice of adults should never be compromised due to sloth by the parents, the retailers' occasional lazy clerks, and personal choice by the youth. The Goddess gave us all free will, but restraint has to be exercised otherwise some part of the population's free choice will eventually be curtailed. Many of the officers I've known locally and in other states were gamers, for many years. They played the GTA games and enjoyed them all the same. This is not empirical but anecdotal yes, but those who delegate videogames to inspiring violence or to be the pastime of weak-minded-violence-mongers are selling their supporting legions of staff short as well. If media (including videogames) really made people as violent as some falsely claim (without evidence, citations, stats, or methodology of the study in question) then we have leagues of killer cops, paramedics, doctors, nurses, educators, politicians, and so forth that have been brainwashed by videogames are are silently killing, beating, stalking, and maiming our population.

Until any of these critics genuinely uses scientific method in an unbiased fashion they are worse than a opinionated blogger ever will be. Critics forget that each of us have various role sets. 'Gamer' is one mere label amongst our myriad overlapping coats, and it does not rule us. We deserve to be disgruntled and even angry with the way we are represented, as there is no real truth, logic, or fairness to it. As a blogger we need not have to prove videogames do not cause societal woe. The weight of that burden of proof falls on the shoulders of the researcher, something that not one of these critics ever will be able to realistically calls themselves. Instead, they are champions of nonsense. Thank you for taking time away from real problems critics, and also for giving us a laugh during the course of our days working real jobs with real problems.

You are ever so good for a laugh, sometimes to tears.

So are the gangs using the game to bring in the kids like the churches?

Gotta love bullshit arguments in causality.

Hey, here's a thought:

Rational Person: Clear Link Between Poverty and Gangs

Hey, look, Pandralisk actually made a comment without calling atheistic jihad.

"Rational Person: Clear Link Between Poverty and Gangs"


Pandralisk, i think you have hit the nail on the head!

@G-Dog

Bad bad example since he was only 20 years old.

I knew Jack posted when I saw the post count....

When does this sort of thing coming from people interviewed become slander?

I feel like the general mindset is if these people fling enough mud on the wall there's hope that some of it will stick. Meanwhile the wall is stained beyond clean-up. I think it does a disservice to the community to frivolously blurt out information that's been proven time, and again, not to be true.

Georgia Tech is the most recent incident in which Jack Thompson, and a string of media celebs, got on the phone and vehemently claimed "video games were the cause," when it was factually proven that this simply was not the case. This shit happens all the time and because of the overwhelming bulk of ignorance it continues today. I think the only way this shit will resolve itself is if a not-for-profit organization proactively, and aggressively, goes after public officials that spout out erroneous nonsense. The organization would hold them accountable for what they say and if they can't back up their claims then demand their resignation.

That's my clear logical viewpoint on this matter. I now hand the floor over to my fellow gamers to present their responses.

Duh, Jack. You can't "literally train" on a video game. For one thing, humans are smarter than video games. Two, what are you gonna do when you go to Jack someone's car, press X? Come on!

Dammit! Hurts, not herts, hurts! And all has two l's!

Corpse desecration doesn't count simply because there is no perfect plan, my wiews may be a bit extreme but I, at least, admit to physical flaws in my Grand Plan.

Remember the ultimate truth. Life causes Turmoil. Death brings Peace. Welcome Death.

And Cleanse so that others may join our Way.

We will nanny you all the way through.

"Ed Bradly pointed out to the national audience on the 60 Minutes segment about our GTA/Cop-Killing case that a gang of Oakland carjackers literally trained on GTA: Vice City, according to the Homicide Division."


You keep using the word training, but I don't think you have any damn clue what it even means. How does tapping a singular button to initiate a carjacking in a fictitious video game give you any kind of skill at all, whatsoever for a real car jacking?

So by watching a character perform a carjacking after pressing a button that gives me the skill to do so? Wow that is a really idiotic statement. I also press the play button on my DVD player, and have watched just about every single Bruce Lee movie ever made. Holy shit! I know kung-fu!

But lets play a silly little game. Lets pretend for one moment that Jack was right, and that you can "literally train" on these games.


Well then I must request that all bow to me, for I am this century's renaissance man.

I am a master surgeon(Trauma Center: second option), I am a politician(SimCity), I am an expert at hand to hand combat(Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, etc), a master marksman(more shooters than I can remember), a counter-terrorism expert(the S.W.A.T line of games), lord of the dance(DDR), a peerless athlete(NFL, NBA, NHL, golf games), a business genius(tycoon line of games), a movie director(The Movies game), a military engineer(TF2), A military strategist(Command & Conquer), a scientist(Half-Life), and a literal god!(Black and White)

And this is the abridged version. In Jack's sick little world I would be the most impressive person to have walked the face of the earth! I don't think I'm getting the respect I deserve!

The other nite i attended a republican caucus (SP?). The big question and concern was on video game legistration. Now everyone had their 5 mins where they voiced their opinions. I heard more "Its should be moderated by the government" than anything else. I heard people state it encourages such acts as murder, rape, theft and grand theft auto. When it got around to my dad to give his opinion he gave a story. He stated he played everything from Pong to Defender, Pacman, tetris, Mario, MechWarrior, and almost everything and anything in between. "Not ever did anyone of those games inspier me to rape, kill or steal anything I'm not for the government telling me what i can and cannot enjoy" said my dad. As i got up to speak i cleared my throught and said what I've been saying all this time. "THERE'S NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE VIDEO GAMES CAUSE ANYTHING YOU CLAIM THEY DO! People who want to make video games moderated by the government are making a uneducated decisions. Its been proven people are afraid of the unknown. Educate yourself and then make a decision." After that a few people said they didn't know what to think. Then it was dropped and a new topic took its place.

Moral of the story is if you make such claims such as "There is clear evidence of a link between violent TV and computer games and gang activity" please back it up with some sort of fact of the link.

@ Malevolent - well done! I wish we had more people willing to speak out like that at political conventions.

*hands Malevolent an internets*

A winrar is you!

@ james gunn

Caps lock for cruise control huh?

You can say "clear evidence" over and over, but without any actual evidence to substantiate it, the phrase doesn't hold any weight. Don't tell us there's clear evidence - if you've got it, SHOW it.

@OtakuMan


no not the square button!!!!

@jack thompson, attorney

Yes Thompson, because pressing a single button perfectly simulates pulling a car door open and whipping a person from the seat. The victim will not fight back, their car door will not be locked instead of might be locked, and even if the person begins to pull away you won't get knocked over.

And since you fail so hard at humor and sarcasm, I am being sarcastic.

"It’s October 8th
Tomorrow is important
Enjoy your last days"

He likely won't even show up, wrongly assuming they came to their senses and dropped the charges.

I'd like to submit that Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall because of video games.

It's true.

I didnt know gangs like the Crips,Bloods and MS13 were founded by the evil of PS1....

Go figure......

Yet another out of touch and dellusional ignoramus from a generation that I personally cannot stand one bit.

This idiot needs to look at the broader issue here. People don't join gangs because of thier entertainment choices. Personally I'd be relieved if I lived in a high crime gang infested area and my kids were playing GTA instead of hanging out on the street. Also when you hear stories about cops going on shooting rampages and killing 6 people or killing thier wives and molesting 9 year old girls(This was on America's most Wanted), it's no wonder that respect for the police is at an all time low. I know most cops are good and uphold law but the media has decided to cover those who don't.

By the way jack thompson, attorney... whenever you conclude your postings do you disappear in a cloud of smoke, and mirrors?

Hey, Jack Ass Thompson...

Ever heard of Jonestown?

"Everyone, including the children, was told to line up. As we passed through the line, we were given a small glass of red liquid to drink. We were told that the liquid contained poison and that we would die within 45 minutes. We all did as we were told. When the time came when we should have dropped dead, Rev. Jones explained that the poison was not real and that we had just been through a loyalty test..."

I guess, based on your farked up logic, Jim Jones was lying when he said it wasn't really poison. Hey, he said it, it mus be true.

But of course you have nothing to say. You show up, drop in a comment and leave to continue hiding from the Florida Bar.

What a loser.

@Erik,
I think you might want to check your points against some of those people on xbox live, they might have you beat there almighty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21213352/


Quote:
“Violent foreign-born gang members and their associates have more than worn out their welcome, and to them I have one message: good riddance,” said Julie Myers, assistant secretary of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Of those arrested in the three-month sting, 1,053 are in the country illegally.

Quote:
The nationwide anti-gang initiative, called “Operation Community Shield,” has resulted in 2,444 criminal charges and 5,211 immigration-related charges, according to ICE. Agents seized 287 firearms and arrested 107 gang leaders across 19 states.

Whoops! Someone forgot to mention what video game systems and games were confiscated. After all, video games are to blame for gangs, right?

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software