October 9, 2007
School safety - it's a critical topic for parents, students, educators, youth advocates, public officials and police.But, do video games deserve the blame when a school shooting takes place?
They do, according to longtime video game critic Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
A presentation the speaker and author gave to a group of law enforcement personnel and educators in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania yesterday was covered by local station CBS-21:
Part of that prevention is recognizing the reasons for the spike in school violence.
Col. Grossman says it comes from what our kids see, like violent video games and TV. He says it’s our jobs to deter what our kids take in.
Grossman has been spouting this line for years. He's got a book out on the topic, Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill, reportedly spends most of his year on the lecture circuit, and is a (presumably paid) expert witness in Jack Thompson's Alabama Grand Theft Auto lawsuit against the video game industry.
The ironic thing about Grossman's message to yesterday's audience is that the Lancaster County seminar was largely generated as a response to last year's horrendous massacre at the Amish schoolhouse in Nickel Mines, PA... the one committed by a 32-year-old non-gamer.
Comments
I'd love to see Grossman's findings be provable here in my home country. Majority of the thugs here - mostly underage, and hence kids - don't even have access to a console.
It is appropriate to refer to him as LT Col (ret/retired) or former LT. Col, but not simply LT. Col. as if he was still enlisted.
The basic rules of solving these things is to find a common denominator, the value of X and Y are variable, they change depending on the message being broadcast, the common denominator is, always has been, and always will be [u]obsessive[/i], it is unhealthy to allow one thing, be it violent media, guns, conspiracy theories etc to become an over-arching part of your life, it's mentally unhealthy, we've known that for years. It's not a perfect flag, some people just like their own company and mean no harm to anyone, others are trying to find a way to justify the thoughts that are [i]already[/i] in their heads, sexual offenders will seek out certain kinds of pornographic material, violent offenders will seek out media that incites or represents violence etc, yet people insist on looking at it arse about face, pardon my language.
We hear so much about the training that 'teaches soldiers to kill', so who taught them not to? How many people in Iraq [i]haven't[/i] been shot by American soldiers I wonder?
Me too...I live in Wisconsin, and they talked about it at my local high school.
Sucks because they probably will...I mean, a 20 year old deputy with a promising career goes apeshit and kills six people? Of COURSE the games caused it...
Just because you see a video game system in a majority of your drug raid houses doesn't mean that video games cause people to (ab)use/sell drugs.
That's what I should have said first, oy. That's what was stated in Psychology.
Anyhoo.
I was thinking the same thing.
Seems like JT is on his way out, what with numerous judges breathing down his neck.. so this guy might take his place if JT is to fall?
|by an agenda derived from explicitly ""fill in the blank" values.|
try it like that,things gain a wiser perspective, and a wider one too LOL.
That way he'd look just like any other Hooker on the roads.
http://www.killology.com/on_combat_ch2.htm
http://www.killology.com/on_combat_ch7.htm
(btw, he's got a scary face on this picture)
Col. Grossman calls himself a cop? I hope he loses his badge, as well as his license to practice law. I think he is another antigamer, who might side with Jack Thompson and Lyndon LaRouche, but I don't think that he is a leader like them. He is only a member of their antigamer crusade. Col. Grossman is a disgrace to be called a cop. I'm sorry that I have to say that, but it's my freedom of speech.
I'm going with the monkey on this one.
In fact, he's not a cop. He's a retired Lieutenant-Colonel, and he occasionally teaches and trains law enforcement members.
Haha, fail!
Look. Violent games do not turn normal kids violent. If a child is prone to violence then they will turn to violence regardless if games are involved or not.
Games do not turn children stupid/violent they are born that way. I hereby move that stupid, ignorant, violent etc etc people should not breed.
He is not a cop? I did not know that! Thanks for the information!
Even better!
Grossman may legally be allowed to use the title Lt Col, but he embarasses the services by doing so in his constant misinformation whoring.
Clarification on the first statement: Much of Grossman's early work is based on data concerning fire rates (how many soldiers actually face the enemy and fire their weapons) among soldiers in wars. Some of this information was given to him by a superior, who later admitted to completely fabricating the figures. Despite this public acknowledgment that the figures are completely false, Grossman still uses them.
Even so, I don't think there's much we can do about :/ .
Anyway, anyone notice that in the pic GP posted that Grossman looks like Anthony Perkins?
You wouldn't say that if he was still in service.
Also, from all known sources to date, his statement about blaming TV and games is wrong. How long before the ESA starts suing for defamation? It couldn't be too soon.
And there was something else, but I can't remember.
This guy's following in the footsteps of JT a little too closely, and me thinks some of JT's insanity wore off onto him.
More seriously these guys are sick, what sort of person shows up to a place where kids were killed, and then spouts off some nonsense about how "the video games made them do it". Even worse is this guy's up there spouting crap as if it's fact, knowing it's wrong. People who show up at a place of tragedy or in response to a past tragedy and say video games are responsible should be locked up for a long time and be required to take psychiatric evaluations unless they can completely prove 100% that the video games did in fact cause it and that it wasn't at all related to them already being violent or abused.
Back to being less/not serious I think that if they spout that crap, including outright lies, then police brutality should be involved when bringing them in. A little incentive to not lie the next time they talk.
Kid shoots up a school and it's video games fault and the kid is sane.
Mom tries to drown her kids, claims she is christ and the kids are the anti-crhist, and she's found innocent by reason of insanity and no ones blames religion (in general or specific religious beliefs).
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14298285/detail.html
Eric Rudolph kills a lot folks, brags that it was done because of his religious beliefs, he's held responsible, found sane, but no one screams "It's the fault of religion! Regulate Religion! Protect our children from religion!"
And how many other crimes have been commited where the criminal claimed a religious foundation, was found sane or insane, but religion wasn't "to blame"?
And how many times have kids been exposed to extremist religious beliefs over long periods of time, gone to school, and abused other kids verbally, mentally, and even physically and sexually, but you still don't hear the cry "Protect our children from religion! Regulate religion! Religion is harming our children!"?
This isn't a rant to ban religion, mind you. It's an issue of consitancy and intelligence. Seek to ban or limit one thing while MANY others effect individuals similarly just shows the actual agenda the "opponent" is actually fighting for. And certainly striving to ban or restrict EVERYTHING is impossible, not to mention stupid.
But acting intelligently as both individuals and Parents and recognizing where the REAL problems are and working to correct the problems and not waste time on peripheral issues will make society far better than anything else.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Four Words: Jack Thompson, Virginia Tech
Mmm... yeah, that would be a tasty level of police brutality if I had been serious.
I just realized that I sometimes like to play Stair fall on addicting games (stick figure man you somewhat control falls down stairs leaving unrealistic blood spatter behind), does this mean I am training to kill someone by pushing them down a larger flight of stairs than I've seen in my life?
Or maybe it just means that I, like most normal people, find people falling down stairs funny, and can enjoy it more when I know no one is getting hurt.
Don't take the word of a human on the subject of Causality seriously.
http://www.mercenary.net/blog/index.php?/archives/5-Causality.html
Someone once said "People are like Slinkies. Useless in life but fun to push down stairs". I can see pixels testify to that.
Oh noes! Pixels lead to people! Ahh!!!!11one.
Your job has already been outsourced to the Space Robots. They're here to protect you from the Terrible Secret of Space.
I'm not 100% sure, but the Amish Schoolhouse murders were perpetrated by a commercial milkman. Even though he was not Amish, his influences were not sited much. I think they claimed "sexual abuse," which may have been a factor, but it doesn't take any of the blame away from the murderer.
"Clarification on the first statement: Much of Grossman’s early work is based on data concerning fire rates (how many soldiers actually face the enemy and fire their weapons) among soldiers in wars. Some of this information was given to him by a superior, who later admitted to completely fabricating the figures. Despite this public acknowledgment that the figures are completely false, Grossman still uses them."
I suppose you're talking about Brigadier SLA Marshall's statistics. Here are all the links to the controversy regarding his work :
http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/SLA_Marshall/Main.htm
http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/SLA_Marshall/Bad-Firing-Data.htm
http://www.warchronicle.com/us/combat_historians_wwii/marshallproblem.htm
And concerning Grossman, here is a refutation of his work by Officer Thomas Aveni from the Police Polisy Study Council :
http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm
(if you want to know more about Thomas Aveni, go there : http://www.theppsc.org/Staff/Aveni/Tom.htm )