You know it could be believable argument except that I don't try to become god after too much RTS, I don't become a master of stealth after splinter cell, and I don't get better at driving after Need for speed.
*Cough*Scapegoat*Cough*

While I find her comments on the far side of 'goofy'. This is some goofy morning show, no different from the other garbage shows like The View or Montel Williams. They're all fluff with no hard news value so why give them any credence? Or should we all put 100% faith in the ramblings in the likes of Rosie ODonnell (who has also negatively commented on video games) and Whoopie Goldberg (who think Vicks practice of dog care comes from his cultural upbringing)? If I hear Shepard Smith talking about it I'll pay some attention. Until then, it's fodder in the same vein of Jerry Springer. IMO, YMMV.

"Rich Says:
October 16th, 2007 at 10:01 am

So is she the New Jack Thompson, since Jack is cruising to irrelevancy?"

Naah, it's just Faux News doing what they always do - spreading falsehoods and sensationalist news for the lulz.

What do you expect from the same "experts" that air drawl like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyR_90RdOg

Another "expert", another day...

@ Jack Thompson:
"Why is she saying these things? Because the entire American Psychological Association is officially saying exactly the same things."

You accuse people of not heeding the findings of the APA reports. I find it hilarious that you in turn ignore the statements by the people who actually carried out the reports explaining that there is no evidence of any kind of causal link between violent video games and violent behaviour. At best they suggest some kind of correlation, that people who are predisposed to violence might like violent entertainment (who'd have thunk it?).

The APA is not saying the exactly the same things. They are saying nothing like this, yet YOU are attempting to put words in their mouth.
You saying the APA found a causal link is like me telling people "Jack Thompson himself says that violent video games are completely harmless for children". It's a stament that supports my side of the argument, but it's completely untrue, just like all of yours.

Please read the the explanations by Dr. Bushman and others where they CLEARLY explain the findings (or lack thereof) of their studies. NOWHERE in any study will you see the word "causal", unless the sentence reads "There is no evidence of a causal link".

@Black

It's that allowance check from his wife for mowing the lawn, doing dishes, keeping religion out of the bedroom. You kow, usual stuff.

@JT

"And besides that, she’s not a paid whore for the video game industry, like some people we know. Jack Thompson "

Even Christ treated whores with respect, perhaps you should take a lesson from your own teachings.

of course the did xD

Why did she bring the Cleveland subject up? I see no relation to it. Obviously the subject title is at the bottom of the screen in big bold white words "Halo 3 Church Controversy." Maybe the thought of violence is only present when someone is exposed to a lot of it? I don't know. I enjoy Halo and I don't know why someone wants to ruin it. Its like saying Star Wars is violent and can make kids go out and shoot someone....with a blaster rifle...or a light saber...If she tries to mark Halo as wrong or bad, or too violent to be sold, its like saying Star Wars is bad, and its not as violent as Halo. What about schools teaching about the KKK or WW2. Wouldn't it make someone curious to see what it was about? And what if they agree with what happened? I don't know. I want people to stop mixing politics with games. This Halo 3 topic or any video game topic is just some attempt for more viewers. What happened to stories about Gears of War? Did that Thompson guy say anything about it? What about this lady who got some random PhD? If anyone found out about any type of GoW news mixed with politics email me at vincecalhoune@yahoo.com

Check here for JT's latest failure:

http://nationalgaynews.com/content/view/1883/173/

It is sad that this shit-head wastes taxpayer money on this bullshit. What a fucking asshole.

@HurricaneJesus

that link was a great read. Thank you.

For anyone who missed it, thank HJ for this one:

http://nationalgaynews.com/content/view/1883/173/

JT gets pwned in court.

@ Sebasman2

Don't feel bad, I'm 23 but people think I'm 18... or younger.. even with a five o'clock shadow.

You're a good example of what most of here are talking about. People like this "doctor" think "children" can not differentiate right from wrong, or real from fantasy. That is blatantly false. They can. Maybe even better than many adults can. The idea that a kid will play Halo 3 and then try to murder a person for bumping in to them is fear-mongering at its best (or is that worst?). The fact is, EVERYONE of those "children" who have gone off the deep-end and murdered people, all of those school shooters, and all those gang members would do the exact same things without video games. There are other factors at work in those people. To say otherwise is escapism.

And Greek and Roman Mythology is awesome! You should try to enjoy it more.

What the hell?!

Enjoyable rant Dennis, but like I said previously, did you seriosuly expect anything better from Fox?

Why the hell haven't i killed anybody yet?
Is there something wrong with me?

Another anti-game moron spouting her lies. No surprise there.

@ Soldatlouis

Why am I not surprised this doctor(who apparently got her degree in a box of Froot Loops) is a part of a pro-censorship group?

ah, yes, i remember that "brain difference".

the same EXACT change in activity occurs when playing a nonviolent game

seriously, when the original HALO came out like five years ago, then shouldn't all those kids that grew up with it be out and about killing people?

maybe they're just having trouble finding a plasma rifle

"No, it’s negative activity that the child really has to get into the CHARACTER of the person that they’re playing that’s killing all these poeple. So when they walk out of the ROOM and they go out into the streets and someone might bump into them, what are they going to do? "

This is the whole anti-games movement summed up in one brief, dumb statement. I don't have to get into the character of Master Chief to play Halo 3. Same as I don't get into the character of Ryu or Ken with Street Fighter. Games present challenges, and your character has a certain array of tools/abilities which must be used skilfully to negotiate and overcome the challenges, whether it be the range of moves in a fighting game, or the guns in an fps, the items in a Zelda game, etc. Does a carpenter get into the character of a hammer or a chisel? Does a surgeon get into the character of a scalpel?

"Well you know what, when we add violent games to all the other bad things that are happening in the world we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s criminal."

If you take away the violent games, you are left with "all the other bad things that are happening in the world we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s criminal." Which is exactly the same situation, except it doesn't have a hobby that might let kids blow of steam once in a while.

Even the way this woman forms her sentences sounds to me like a desperate attempt to grasp straws. Negative activity in the brain? More does not necessarily equal "negative" activity. In fact more would imply to me (granted I'm not a scientist, but still) that the person is having to engage in a higher degree of concentration in one game than they are in another. Besides who was it that said not long ago that interactivity actually distances you from the images on the screen because you are not processing the actual digital killing so much as focusing on the actions you have to take to effect the game? Wouldn't that imply a higher degree of concentration and thus more brain activity?

@ Miang

That would be the British study on violent media. They went around and questioned a bunch of kids about their feelings on different media. Video games had the least amount of effect on the kids.

But onto the article, I could not expect less from a Fox show. But just yesterday I wrote a damning letter to one of my local news stations about the sensationalism in their headlines. So this is not confined to Fox. They just mastered it.

Man... ignorant people who refuse to educate themselves on a topic are annoying as hell...

ye gods, there must be something wrong with me, 8 years of 'negative mental activity' and i haven't tried to emulate any game above and beyond a mock light sabre fight with some friends!

i'm going to mental health ward to check to see why i'm not a murderer.

Ive been playin games since the mid-late 80's alot of them can be classed as violent. Guess that makes me a murdering phsycopath huh.

Ok..I'm calling BS on this one. We just had a pretty good sized LAN party of Halo 3 this weekend, and my six year old was involved in the whole thing. As a parent I made the decision that he was ok with at least the multiplayer part because even at his age he understands that it's a game. We played for literally the entire day..and you know what happened when it was over...NOTHING. Everybody was happy and relaxed after all of the fun. My son didn't do anything different, didn't shoot anybody. At worst he did was a six year old does and jumped around excited about the hillarious stuff that happened. It's people like this that bother me because they live under the whole "they know what is best for my kids" attitude that I find insulting as a parent.

"No, it’s negative activity that the child really has to get into the CHARACTER of the person that they’re playing that’s killing all these people."

Sounds like what happens to most people when they watch an action movie and get too absorbed by it.

Well lets see, between Heavy Metal, D&D, Violent Video Games and Sci-fi/Fantasy books, according to the so called experts and Fox news, I should be a virgin sacrificing, baby raping, devil worshiping, mass murderer with a swastika cut into my forehead.
Funny that isn't it?

Shouldn't she spend more time writing crappy books that prevent girls from being anorexic than going on a biased network and spitting out fake crap like another Halo 3 basher *cough*Jack Thompson*cough*?

Also I do like how people are blaming video games for violence, but you know, they don't try to do anything about the war... Hello? The war where people are killing people and dying? Instead of going and blaming violent tendencies on an unrealistic entertainment source, you could always go after the confirmed violence? You know, just to show that you're really serious about your anti-violence beliefs.

I for one am very anti-violence, but do enjoy gaming quite a bit. Have been since I was going after zombies in Doom when I was 3. Maybe you should reconsider your objectives here and think about what you really want to do, cause it don't make much sense to go after a supposed cause of violence when actual violence is happening?

You know, with the way this is going, I was half expecting her to tell me I can protect myself from those evil games by placing a line of salt around my consul, or chanting this handy spell to keep those gamers at bay. Because she seems to be going in that direction here.

So at the risk of sounding pompous, I feel I must point out how violent video games have affected me during my life...

My earliest memory is of the Christmas when our family got an NES, and I played the NES port of the 1989 TMNT Arcade game. From there, I've been playing video games throughout my entire life, funded initially my my father and his shared love of video games (It may be noted that he was a pilot during Vietnam, a violent background indeed).

Having spent an entire lifetime playing violent games, from Brutal Sports Football on the Jaguar, Doom on the PC, up to GTA, R6: Vegas, and Halo 3, do you know how many violent crimes I've committed? 0, Zero, None, Nada.

But how have video games affected my life in other ways? Obviously my grades in school must have suffered due to this evil phenomenon, right? The Dreamcast and PS2 launching during my high school years? Wrong again. A 4.0+ GPA (weighted) AND I managed to play football, despite being a gamer, and therefore obviously a social outcast who dwells in dark places and plans to reenact video game misdeeds.

But what about college? Playing so many games must have made me homocidal, and I must have gone on a shooting rampage, right? Wrong, despite spending every possible moment between classes beating GTA: VC within 5 days of its release, and playing many other games with friends, I managed not to kill anoyone, and graduated with a 3.47 GPA in Electrical and Computer Engineering.

But now I must be a maniacal shut-in, right? A gamer can't be an important member of adult society, surely. Well, working as an engineer for a leading multinational aerospace manufacturer and advanced technology company, I guess I'll leave that decision up to the "experts". Meanwhile, I'll get back to work helping advance and protect our country, including people like Dr. Susan Bartell, who knows what is best for me and my family.

@Darrell.

There's also two types of fox news: the stuff on the FoxNews CHANNEL, and the news on Fox.

@hayabusa75 :

Thanks for your initiative, I was about to do it. At worst, you won't have any reply. At best, she may come here and clarify her position, like Frank Borelli or Eric Greene did, and it was a success. It's always better when we can discuss (as long as it's a honest and civil discussion).

"No. It's really negative activity"

I'm sorry, but her profession is that of a psychologist, not a neurologist. Also, she did not administer these tests and clearly played "picky choosy" with the details. In other words, she abstracted data and jumped to her own conclusions.

GP was right: she avoided the question by simply spewing her own INTERPRETATION of a scientific finding. I would be less likely to dismiss her as an ill-informed quack had the question/response went something like this: (purely hypothetical, btw)

Interview Conductor: "...couldn't it be the same if you were going to see a Broadway play."

Dr. Bartell: "Well, the increased activity was found around a brain structure called the amygdala, which is responsible for controlling emotions...."

See how the interview could have gone had she actually taken the time to read the findings? I'm trying my best to find a copy of the findings (Help me out GP?), so while I haven't read it yet I'd venture a guess that the study found the following:

-Increased activity involving the amygdala
-Since the amygdala structures play a vital role in emotion control, it can be concluded that aggression would be one response brought for from increased activity.

Aggression is typically divided into two categories: reactive and proactive. Reactive is generally tied into chemical responses, usually associated with bipolar mood disorder, whereas the other is a learned behavioral response. In essence, studying the increased brain activity of an adolescent playing a violent video game could be more useful for diagnosing and treating problems rather than abolishing a product unrelated to the problem.

Aggression: an emotion.
Violence: an action.

You've got to be kidding me. It's bad enough that she invoked the Cleveland school shooting, but she can't even get the day it happened right. Did she bother to do ANY research on this? Did she just wake up that very morning and think "Oh crap, I've got to comment on Halo 3 for The Morning Show, and I only know about eating disorders. I know! I'll just pull some brain scan pictures off the Internet and say a bunch of nonsense while showing them to look smart."

Have the standards for getting a Ph.D in Psychology become that low? Do the people who hand them out ever think "Wow, this person has no damn clue what he/she's talking about, and I'm about to give him/her credibility by awarding this doctorate. Oh well."

I guess I don't have a point to this. It's early, and nothing makes me more angry than a boffin. Maybe TV stations should not be allowing such idiotic people onto their sets. There are other ways to bring viewers in...;)

Honestly, as much as I agree that this is definately news and that Dennis is right to post it, how much discussion can there possibly be? We're all just sitting around nodding at each other at how wrong she is.

This is a similar argument, and it's really a very simple one, and it comes from a simple place. People almost always think that it's "Them" who do bad things and influence people to do horrible things. It's got to be "Them" because "We" don't do that. We're not Them, we're Us. And if They did'nt do it, then one of Us did it. And that's a very uncomfrotable fact for many many people to accept, as we're all Us. That's why they need something to put the blame on that's not one of Us, it's one of Them. Because if one of Us did it, what's to stop you or me from doing it? We're part of Us as well.

if video games make me violent, shouldn't watching Fx make me biased?

Well, according to this expert, it's getting into the character that is bad, right? Well... I'm a stage and voice actor, so I get into character a lot. Characters that murder and kill and are generally immoral. Obviously acting on stage is FAR more interactive than a video game, right? I should be... hmmm... A mage, a nazi, an old scottish guy, a little boy, a crazed scientist, a military member with an annoying voice, Jack the Giant Killer, a detective, a street cop, a singing mailman, a French bartender..
Wow. I should've killed someone a long time ago. While speaking French in a Scottish accent, while making drinks. Or I should've murdered someone in the name of the military while Heiling Hiter and doing odd experiments.
God help us all the moment I get set off! I play games, so I know how to use weaponry better then an entire platoon of the army, I've played a police officier, so I know their tactics, so I can take them down just like in GTA, while singing. Yeah. Go logic.

She keeps saying "arousal" as if this is the similar behavior to what a rapist performs. She's trying to insist that if a kid plays violence depicting games, they'll be like rapists and enjoy dominance over a person by killing or maiming.
I think she's just trying to be an attention whore at the moment. Also, activity in the brain doesn't mean its bad, it means the damn thing works. If the damn thing doesn't have activity, you're brain-dead. -.-
She probably would've had a better chance if she edited it to show holes in the brain by borrowing drug-damaging image of the brain.

When people insist on something, they probably see a self-projected image of what they perceive to be wrong. In other words, she is always aroused when playing Halo3.

Oh yeah, please Dr. Susan, there's a reason why psychologists stick to one field, and you apparently took those classes. If you are done whoring yourself for attention, please retract your statements and go back to your field.
One more thing, if Halo3 is arousing you, seek help, from a psychologist that deals with violence, not bulimia and anorexia.

It looked to me like all the orange activity (is it the color they're worried about?) was more spread out in the non-violent gamer's head. If it's the level of brain activity they're worried about (that's right, folks, they don't want kids to show brain activity!), it seems that Halo is better than games like Katamari. f See? I always knew Katamari would cause problems!

It would be really nice if someone who gets floor time and is anti-gaming actually had a GOOD point.

Like... kids who play games too much have their school work suffer -- you know, something where being in the public eye putting out your message might have some POSITIVE result. At least then there would be a place for actual rational conversation about the problems.

These kinds of 'the sky is falling' arguments don't do anything positive -- they just scare ignorant parents and anger rational gamers.

Excuse me if this has been brought up already, but I have a bone to pick...

I've played various sports in my time, and they all hold one common theme: competition. In the case of some of them, like Wrestling, Rugby and Football, that's *violent* competition. During the game/match I'm in an "emotionally aroused state" and I usually want to rip someone's head off.

Thing is, when the game is over, that goes away. It's a momentary thing brought on by competition. Video games are no different. When I play Halo 3 there are times when all my senses and emotions are heightened, when my heart is pounding and my palms are sweating and my only thought is how to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as I can.

Just as with sports though, when the match is over, it goes away. I don't get into fights with the guys that I play with at the LAN parties, and I don't walk away looking to kill someone. The transient state goes away...but why is it always assumed that it *won't*?

I've seen very little data regarding long term affects hours, or days, after a game is played. My bet is that when you look at data like she was showing, both sets of children will be normalized within 2 hours of quitting.

Double post

Jack, could you provide me a link to the study on these findings? Humor me and allow me my delusions that my unenlightened, gamertard brain is in fact able to process the studies in which violent games have a causal link to violent behavior in real life.

I honestly haven't read these studies before and would like to see them with my own two eyes, but aside from your assertion that they exist and GP's assertion that the context proves otherwise, I've yet to see the evidence with my own eyes.

GP: If Jack doesn't provide, do you know where I can get those studies?

"Why is she saying these things? Because the entire American Psychological Association is officially saying exactly the same things.

And besides that, she’s not a paid whore for the video game industry, like some people we know. Jack Thompson"

I think what makes me angriest is that statements like this are constantly made with no consequence. He really should be held accountable for every malicious lie he puts forth with the express intent of misleading the public.

As should the rest of these incompetents, like Dr. Bartell.

The Indiana study that is mentioned was funded by the Center for Successful Parenting, and a report (in html and Word) can be found on their site :
http://www.sosparents.org/Brain%20Research%20Study.htm
http://www.sosparents.org/brain%20Study.doc

By the way, the "violent game" chose for the study was "Medal of Honor : Frontline", while the "non-violent game" was a "Need for Speed" game.

@Jack Thompson

Pardon me if I don't:

A) Believe a word you say
B) Believe a word the APA says
C) Believe a word that this woman says

Why don't I believe it? Same shit, different day. That and I find all Americans intellect questionable IF they are paid by the US Government.

If it wasn't for the fact that she was so adamant about it, I'd say she was joking. Y'know saying absolutely ridiculous things to be funny. But it seems she's just a crack pot.

I think I know her favorite song, though. "Teenagers" by My Chemical romance.

@ Jack Thompson

Yeah. Sure. That's it, Jack. By the by, I've still seen no conclusive evidence of video games making people violent killers. It would seem to me that IF they did, we'd see far more school shootings and the violent crime rate amongst youth would be sky high.

Why don't you just join "Dr." Susan Bartell in the Chorus of Teenagers. Here it is for you:
"They said all teenagers scare the living shit out of me
They could care less as long as someone'll bleed
So darken your clothes or strike a violent pose
Maybe they'll leave you alone, but not me"

@ Everyone

Can't you picture the Dr Susan Bartell and Jack singing that together? Of course, they're meaning would be totally different than ours.

Heads up guys, Fox just ran a piece on Manhunt 2. I only caught the tail end, but it includes mention of kids being able to use the Wii remote as an axe or knife. Maybe GP or someone else can get a video feed of this, but it looks like Fox might be moving against Rockstar? :/

@ SoldatLouis

By the way, the “violent game” chose for the study was “Medal of Honor : Frontline”, while the “non-violent game” was a “Need for Speed” game.

Medal of Honor is hardly violent. It is only slightly more violent than Need for Speed. So pardon me while I donn't jump all over the conclusions these studies come to. If they wanted a violent game they should use Unreal.

By the way, thanks for the links.

@Jack

Run along, the grown-ups are talking. When you learn about reason, logic, evidence, and actually understanding what the APA is talking about, you can join in the grown-up conversation.

Spam!

“Well why is it dangerous though if you see a lot more activity [in the brain scan]?”

Bartell’s reply completely avoided the question.

Standard pundit tactic. If you don't have an answer, change the subject.

Dennis...

@ BlackIce

I have already sent an email.

"Conclusion:
This fMRI study using modified Stroop paradigms demonstrated that following violent video game playing subjects produced relatively less activation in regions associated with executive function but more activation in regions associated with emotional arousal. Further study is needed to determine if this combination of effects could make these individuals more likely to engage in violent behavior. "

While I can't argue the effectiveness of Stroop Effect testing, the study does not mention AGGRESSION/AGGRESSIVE anywhere in the findings. Further more, it flat out says there is currently NO CORRELATION between the findings and violent behavior.

She herself seemed pretty angry about games (didn't even let the host speak)..I would like to get her brain scanned. =)

When did we hit the Kindergarten?

You know, I remeber a study that which compared brain activity between subjects, whom were playing with video games, rubik's cube's, and a few additional assorted board games.

Brain activity did increase in most of the subjects. The few whom did not have increased brain activity were the kids who were not paying attention to the games.

Now then, the situation that makes this relevent.

There was a boy who got frustrated, as he did not understand the Rubik's cube and he began throwing it against the wall.
A few children got upset with their peers because they lost at their particular games.

No matter if it's video games or not, Kids are kids, I may be out of my mind, but more and more I think it's a parenting issue.

Amazing that one would see increased brain activity while doing something that requires concentration and thought. I suppose watching TV is absolutely wonderful, then, because it makes people not use their brain one iota?

@ BlackIce

It all depends on whether he is at the computer when the email is sent. If he is there the moment he gets it, it does not take him long. But it appears that he is away from the computer at the moment.

@Baramus,

Exactly, apparently 'increased brain acitivity' = 'Violent', so apparently all kids should be sitting round in a vegetative state. Kind of unusual as the usual other complaint about teenagers is that they sit around in a vegetative state.

Umm, I'm not exactly sure where all of these Blaine high school juveniles came from, but I'm gonna void the idiocy they are spewing all over this thread like molten lava.

I'm reading through some studies Janarius sent me (thanks). I'm currently reading through the "Media Violence Exposure and Executive Functioning in Aggressive and Control Adolescents" findings from Indiana University School of Medicine.

I can see why Mr. Thompson and Dr. Bartell are jumping to their conclusions:

"Additionally, a considerable amount of evidence points to the prefrontal
region as a key brain area responsible for executive functioning (Lezak, 1983), and prior studies have provided preliminary evidence of the importance of this area in violent behavior (Filley et al., 2001)."

As I mentioned before, the findings are discussing the areas of the brain (amygdala, cerebral cortex, prefrontal lobes) vital to emotional control and executive functioning and how they are affected by violent media (both TV and games).

However, by the quote I just posted, it clearly states that past studies have found a correlation between the functionality of that brain area to violent behavior. It DOES NOT say that past studies have found a correlation between violent media and violent behavior. Could further studies prove this eventually? Anything is possible, but until said studies are performed certain people are skipping vital studies and making up their mind before the other shoe drops.

Science == A-B-C-D...Conclusion. Going from A to C and making up your own Conclusion is not proper science.

@Michael Perry,

But it's Science that gets people's attention, and that is what is important to these people, not the facts, but the airtime.

By this foolish womans logic, I must be a mass murder from all the violent video games I've played.

@jds

Pest Control issues.

Hay, let me be an expert. Do you know that the use of video games increase hand eye coordination. It helps children to interact with others in a safe enviroment. It encourages concentration, problem solving and some socialization. Yes if a person who has a precurser to violance plays a violant game it may increase the possiblity to violance but only a possibility. I have a son with a learning disability and even his psychologist stated there is no true studies out at this time that proves violant video games increase violance in children it is more apt their enviroment than the game. Stop looking for an excuse for bad parenting and ignorance. What about the so call stars that kids look up to like Brittney Spears who has ignore the law and continues to drive and drink.

@Michael Perry,

Agreed, certainly from an academic viewpoint, citing without sources is an instant dismissal of the data cited, people have failed their degrees for it.

GP- Thanks for deleting those juvenile vilgar posts. What actually seems to be lost is that the segment involved a church using these games to get teens into church. It seems like a contradiction to use a game based in shooting, killing, etc. to bring teens into church. While they were holding Halo nights at church for the teens maybe they should have beers and strippers in another room, this way the dads would also come to church.

Lot's of death and shooting, teehee! At least she asked a decent question, even if the good doctor's response of "No, it’s negative activity" is total bull. Are they any conclusive studies on which section of the brain responds to solely "negative" activity?

Anyone have the rest of the clip, what do these people have to say about "Microsoft" (not to mention, it seems Thompson was only on screen to nodd).

I pretty much agree with the tension release idea of Video Games, there's been days where I've had a bad day at work, and I'll take it out on a Video Game, and feel much more relaxed afterwards.

People like Thompson don't take into account, for example, the spate of 'booth killings' that happened in America a few years ago, where disgruntled employees were shooting up their workplaces in anger, people who didn't play video games, but had no outlet for their anger. Is it possible that being gamers might have helped them, anti-gamers would say 'No', but then, they would, but I wonder what research would say?

@mary

That's all the government needs, people being able to solve problems on their own and not need them.... No wonder they're really so afraid.

@ JDS and Gym

It is specifically because of immature individuals such as that who have neither the emotional maturity nor the manners to function in a subject matter such as Halo or any other 'M' rated game. This again comes back to the parents being aware of their child's level of maturity BEFORE buying them the game they want. It is partially for that reason when I was in High School I didn't play FPS games, rather I was an avid Wing Commander, X-Wing Series, and Quest for Glory player. Yes I did play the shareware version of Doom, but I didn't really care for it at all, mostly because it made me a bit motion sick after a while. My parents made sure though to check out the game before they would buy it, and if there was something in it they didn't like, the answer was a flat out no.

Having joined the world of the online gaming community, I've notice quite a few of the homophobic, anti-semitic, sexually obsessed, bigots who do play and love to share their rather profane ideas about everyone else. Now, the majority of these I've discovered through Xbox live to be juveniles, probably around 10-15 years old; I also discovered they love to scream at the top of their lungs. Now the problem here is once the parents hear that kind of language coming out of their child's mouth they should take the switch to them right off. Secondly the parents should be aware enough of their own child's maturity level to know that they should not be playing some types of games, Halo included. Brains scans can be interpreted in a dozen ways by a dozen people, however there are some base lines for being a good parent and that alone would do more good.

In odd irony, Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein actually touches on this subject even though it was written in the 60's. Basically he said that if a child doesn't learn from a parent that the actions they took were wrong, they will continue with because they think they can get away with it. Mind you the context of that also advocated flogging as corporal punishment, for both adolescent and said parent for the child breaking the law, but it still holds true. He also had some nasty things to say about social workers and child psycologists.

The problem with everyone that claims video games are the cause of violance is that they then can sit back and say it is not my fault that my child is an ass. Put the blame on anything but themselves to relieve their guilt that they may be at fault

@GryphonOsiris

Really..? Was this man Right or Left of the centre? (Politically)

@ Iniquus

use "computer games" as subject, then "aggressive behavior" or "aggres*" as your second term. I also use Elsevier sciencedirect, good stuff in there. If you know some authors who research video games, it will help a lot to find related studies.

@Gryphon,

Indeed, it's also a wonderful example of how one person acting like a six year old can make life unpleasant for a large number of mature people, it's that kind of behaviour in particular that Anti-game lobbyists count on, they'll ignore the thousands of perfectly normal, intelligent people specifically to point fingers at the exception rather than the rule.

@BlackIce

I'd say Heinlein was pretty Libertarian. He strongly supported free speech and equality between races and genders, but he also firmly believed "there's no such thing as a free lunch." I'd call that pretty orthogonal to the spectrum with the nanny state, PC Dems on the left and the moral high horse, corporate crony Repubs on the right.

@Black

Closer to conservative, but it was also based in the context of the book as well, where public floggings we used a deterent for crime, and in fact seemed to work. But the government was different in the book as well. Citizenship didn't occur when you turned 18, rather it was earned by Federal Service. That could be Fleet, Mobile Infantry, or they would make something for you if you were physically incapable of doing any 'normal' service. The idea was it could not be denied to you, however they also gave the applicant quite a few chances to back out if they had second thoughts.

Don't judge the book by the movie, the movie had them as facists and neo-nazi like. In the book they were more akin to modern society with less crime and having to earn the right to vote.

you were trying to get your child to work his mind to possibly increase his test scores in school. Oh what will the parents do if their children become smarter than them.

@GrypohonOsiris

To me, Conservatives like Cameron and Arnie are Bootlicks to Goering and Himmler. Yes, I did just say that. I have a deep hate of the right.

Uh.. That was a bit off topic right? Anyway.. Uh.. I haven't read the book or seen the film..?

@BlackIce, as far as Schwarzenegger is concerned, he's just too used to putting image above context, he did it in every single one of his movies, and he's still doing at as a Policitian. Let's face it, the closest thing he ever did to a 'human perspective' movie was 'Twins' and that's a comedy involving him getting pregnant... He's made a career out of made-up stuff, and he still is.

No comment.

Why no comment? It is a good question. Know the next defense will be I play video games and mom gave me the gun so I guessed it was OKay

Or is the truth stipid parents encourage violance

^^ Again, why does it do that to my post?

You let your kids play Halo!!!!11one? Oh Noes.. Watch out for the white van people!

@ GoodRobotUs

Actually you are thinking about "Junior" Although both movies starred Arnold and Devito.

I have never seen twins, so I am not sure what it is about.

"Mario" not "Marion." Just to be clear. My fingers haven't learned to spell yet.

@ Iniquus

I get the same rge. I just want to stopm and kick them. I also want to destroy private property after playing Mario as well.

Whatever happened to the days when media outlets would actually pause to check the credentials of the "experts" they bring in? Fox decides to bring a failed attorney who's chased the game industry for nearly a decade without success, and someone who writes FITNESS BOOKS. Probably because they're the only ones who'd be willing to fly out to New York in exchange for five minutes on TV and two nights in a Best Western.

Halo 3 is rated M, meaning no damn kids allowed, her argument is rubbish, it's the parents fault if a kid is playing violent games not the developers/publishers

"Iniquus"

Welcome to the club, Commrad.

I'm having issues as well - after playing Sonic for so long, I feel that I'm compelled to run around at breakneck speeds, to attack anything remotely mechanical by rolling up into a ball, and to rip off every gold ring I see.

Damn you Sega!

@Twin-Skies

If there's a Communist here, it's either me or GoodRobotUs (That name was so bloody clever, totally threw me over it.. GRU!).

@mary

Please, Cardiac Arrest.

One, Two, Three.. ARGH SHIT!! That good enough for you, Doktor?

The bible has much violence. Yeah yeah hate me if you want but I ask anyone that has watched the 10 Commandants. (aka the Killing of thousands). Mostly violence is downplayed now but yes Christanity exists because it was more agressive then the other religions of that time. Look at the old testament. Most modern churchs preach only from the New Testament but the bible itself claims that it IS the word of God set forth. The whole bloody book.

Yes I am!!!!!!!!

@Matt

This is also true, these 'studies never seem to take that into account. where was the parent when this game was being purchase? Were they greedily wringing their hands like Mr. Burns while they sat in the car *cough cough, Jack Thompson*. Were they totally indifferent because buying the little brat the game meant that they could get back to martinis by the pool side and casual sex with total strangers? They only look at one side of a multifaceted discussion, since the issue is more than just video games; it's about parental and social responsibilities. With all the cases of the school shootings there was more happening that just these kids playing Doom, or Counter-strike. Most were bullied, all were social outsiders with anger issues and a frail grasp of reality. Hmmmm.... using the scientific method, and Occums Razor that seems to be a more plausible explanation.

But it's not science they want, it's pseudo-science. The same kind of science that promoted Eugenic in the beginnings of the 20th century, and the sterilization of mentally disabled, alcoholics, the deformed, and anyone considered 'inferior'. FYI, this idea wasn't just in Nazi Germany, it was promted in Britain and the US by many people and institutes of prestige. In fact the Nazi's took the idea from California, who had the highest rate of sterilization of inferior people than anywere else in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#Eugenics_and_the_United_States.2C_...

Gotta cite sources, the things you learn writing reports in school.

p.s. that is one thing I do like about GP comments, a serious and intellectual debate can take place and real points can be made. Shame that 'others' don't seem to be interested in making progress in a similar manner.

seriously being a doctor does not make you write. There at many times that you may be book learned but are stupid when the common sense is needed

correct!!!!!!!!!

Or to put it metaphorically

100 travel books are not worth one good trip.

"I am I doing a Jack Thompson"

Don't you mean why? :P

*sigh*

Why is anyone acting in the slightest bit surprised that the so called "mainstream" news agencies use folks like this? CNN isn't as guilty as Fox at the moment, but it's getting there - it's the only way they can bring people in, and keep them watching TV instead of going to the internet, where you can find out anything at any time, rather than when they want you to.

Also, to John Bruce, a) this isn't about you, noone cares what you have to say, and b) all these studies you hacks like to talk about have been found to use unscientific and uncomplete data, and therefore cannot be supported. Now go away, adults are talking.

@ mary

Oh I noticed write, but last I checked (checking again) we are human and prone to mistakes... that and typos. Would you want to be perfect? You could then join the ranks of those that cannot seem to find to the ground falling from a chair

Oh, heavens and all the crap from there to hell.

You can never blame someone else for making you do something. Everyone is in control of their own actions and if they don't realise that killing people is frowned upon, then the playing of violent games is way down on their list of problems & causes. Of course we get affected by many types of media from commercials to video games, but this lady is basically saying that Microsoft has invented mind control.

@Mary, it is normally, but BlackIce noticed that the initials of this name are GRU, which just happens to represent this :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRU

They passed a test to be a doctor and get a license that makes them think they are experts.
@icehawk
Here I go, oops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is two teenage boys you try to calm down.

@ Mary

There are only two reasons that people's spelling gets corrected:

1. The person being corrected is a jerk and avoiding answering questions.
2. The person doing the correcting is a jerk.

You do not fit #1 and so far no one fits #2.

Sorry number 2 should read:

2. The person doing the correcting is a jerk and avoiding answering questions.

@ E. Zachary KNight

My now who does that bring to mind?

Cannot seem to be able to put on finger on it. Or be be more honest: To be able to smack him.. errrr it, upside that head with my controller. :)

I ment Gamer vs Non-gamer

Now for something totally different:

I think I scared spartanmichael away for a while.

You know that could be a picture of JT before he comes onto the site and after he comes onto the site. They did say if proves increase in violance

Thats right he would show some atrophy on his scan

Jack Thompson VS Susan Bartell

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!

Except, JT never will see the error of his ways..

Dear Skylar: Try to pay atttention:

One is a pretty small statistical pool, so the fact that you haven't gone Columbine is fascinating but not really useful.

Secondly, the American. Psychological Association has found, as a matter of fact, Professor Jenkins' pontifications notwithstanding, that the universe of teens and adolescents who play violent games are, as a group, made more aggressive.

Finally, not all harm is in the form of extreme violence like Columbine, V-Tech and so forth (he trained on Counter-Strike, kiddies; sorry you missed it). Those responses are on the margins. The fact that you have not gone "postal" means nothing. You've been affected by the games, and you, sweetie, would be the last to know.

Honestly, do you people go to school and learn anything or what?

Jack Thompson, Attorney and You're Not

PS: Hooah!

By the way, I spoke with Susan earlier today. She's awesome.

Seeking attention under unjustified motives on national television really does stick out like a sore thumb.

@Neeneko

You mean complete professional idiocy? Because she has A LOT of that.

Of course we are. Spend 5 minutes with any "Doctor" that has appeared on television and you'll realise how the world goes 'round.

WE KNOW!!!!!! Really now, what would your children think if they knew their mother was going ape on the net?

Probaly tell their father and get me in trouble. Don't care.

@the JT haters

Don't let him bother you. Five bucks says he didn't even read thee article.

Any takers? No? Well, my £5 ($10) says he did, but didn't give a flying so and so..

So Jack, why is one example of a person unaffected by vilolent games insignificant, wheras a sting of a stingle store in a chain proof that they all violate laws?

I like how they relied on a completely one-sided argument for this topic. They didn't bring in someone to debate the subject or someone to at least play the devil's advocate in this situation, they just let some attention-starved psychologist run her mouth. More importantly, most Psychologists don't actually have an expertise in identifying 'good' brain function and 'bad' brain function. She simply showed two random brain scans and said, "This are god, that area bad." leaving them completely unidentified and making her argument drastically weaker. If I'm not mistaken, most psychologists specialize in identifying mental illnesses. Playing a video game is not a mental illness, so yet again, I have to ask, why is she even talking about this?

Easiest way to shatter her argument? Too many people own a copy of halo 3, and the only incident that's happened since it's release is a school shooting that has no link. Therefore, due to the drastic lack of evidence or activity, it can be determined that Halo 3 and games like Halo 3 are not the problem within society. One could argue that idiotic 'professionals' touting their PhD's cause people to go out and kill. I'd support that argument.

@jack thompson, attorney

"Dear Skylar: Try to pay atttention:

One is a pretty small statistical pool, so the fact that you haven’t gone Columbine is fascinating but not really useful."

Key wor,d useful. any gamer who doesn't go Columbine isn't useful to your and your cause. You'd knowall about using people, wouldn't you?

""Secondly, the American. Psychological Association has found, as a matter of fact, Professor Jenkins’ pontifications notwithstanding, that the universe of teens and adolescents who play violent games are, as a group, made more aggressive."

Yeah, flipping the graph over really proves your point. Wasn't that study inconclusive?

"Finally, not all harm is in the form of extreme violence like Columbine, V-Tech and so forth (he trained on Counter-Strike, kiddies; sorry you missed it). Those responses are on the margins. The fact that you have not gone “postal” means nothing. You’ve been affected by the games, and you, sweetie, would be the last to know."

The Counter Strike bit was retracted, we're sorry YOU can't see that. And what do your statements even mean, that we're ticking time bombs? I dunno about you but I've never known a time bomb to tick for over twenty years

"Honestly, do you people go to school and learn anything or what?

Jack Thompson, Attorney and You’re Not

PS: Hooah! "

We won't learn anything in school if people like you have anything to say about it. Our education system does need a massive overhaul that is unlikely to come, but that is another topic entirely.

"By the way, I spoke with Susan earlier today. She’s awesome."

And if she was, you know, sane, and not your standard of sane, she would have said the opposite of what she did. And if she did say anything to the contrary of games = violence, you'd be trying to have her medical license revoked.

@jadedcritic

I don't think anyone here hates Jack Thompson, I for one feel quite sorry for him.

@JT (even though he won't read this)

You claim to be an educated man yet you seem to have a bit of a blindspot where your so called crusade is concerned. The tragedy at Virgina Tech was NOT caused by videogames. It was caused by a young man who fell through the cracks in the system. He was supposed to have undergone court ordered treatment for a variety of issues. That no one in the system ever tried to keep up with him to make sure he underwent that treatment is unsettling. The Washington Post even went so far as to retract a story wherein they had claimed Counter Strike was a motivating factor because Cho hadn't played those kinds of games.

You say that the fact that the majority of the gaming community hasn't spontaneously lashed out violently doesn't matter. That only goes to show your own bigotry toward us; and bigotry is just another kind of hatred and anger. This is a problem because, as I've tried to communicate to you before, Christ Himself said that if you hold anger in your heart toward your brother then you are guilty of murder in the eyes of God.

Most of us are normal everyday citizens. We have jobs, many of us go to school,, have families. We're every citizen you see on the street from the greatest to the smallest and all we want is to be allowed our pursuit of happiness; a right guaranteed us by our Creator in the Constitution.

As to the woman who appeared on the Mike and Juliet show, I have to say that I find her comments spurious at best. Her only credentials seem to be that she wrote a weightloss book for girls. I fail to see how that qualifies her to speak on this issue in particular.

Again, Jack thinks repetition creates truth.

I cannot wait until Jack is on a panel with some folks that disagree with him and have the facts to back it up. How will he react? I'll give you three-to-one that he throws a hissy fit.

This guy is like Al Gore and his man-made global warming nonsense. Repeat it enough and everyone thinks you are right. Next thing you know Jack will get a Pulitzer for his writings in this comments section, akin to Al getting a Nobel Peace Prize for all the good he has done for world peace and reducing military numbers via man-made global warming.

But they sure are making money. Hmmm, come to think of it, I wonder if the money is worth more than the cause, eh, Jack?

@ids

Jack is making money... how? No win, no fee. That $10,000 must be drying up by now..

@ JT
"By the way, I spoke with Susan earlier today. She’s awesome."

what did you two do? Yoga and exercises?

@BlackIce

He makes money the exact same way Dennis makes money from this site. He doesn't, but he does, even though he doesn't.

For Jack, it is my opinion that his remaining two minutes of fame are pricele$$.

;)

@Massacre-Chaser

"(he trained on Counter-Strike, kiddies; sorry you missed it)"

He did NOT train on Counter-Strike, Jack. When will you stop spewing your lies at us and the world?
Oh, that's right, you won't.

Oh yeah,and the only one being childish is you.If you reply to this post and insult me, you're just proving me right.

@Paul Kerton

Thanks, Paul.

@Massacre-Chaser

Scroll up the page and click on his link. You might learn something.

Once, just ONCE I would love to see someone that's against violent video games while not being mentally disabled.

Seriously, all they ever do is make up stories about how video games cause children to grow up to be psychopathic killers.

If they had someone who was intelligent and had atleast one true statement about violent video games then maybe they could actually be respected. But seriously, there's no facts supporting any of this.

@Jack Thompson

Can I refer you to this part of the V-Tech report:
"Most persons who submitted information to the
web site appeared sincere about making a
contribution. Some lobbying groups on issues
such as gun control, carrying guns on campus,
and the influence of video games on young people
clearly urged their members to post comments."

I wonder who... THEY... COULD... POSSIBLY... MEAN...

@ jack thompson, attorney

“Secondly, the American. Psychological Association has found, as a matter of fact, Professor Jenkins’ pontifications notwithstanding, that the universe of teens and adolescents who play violent games are, as a group, made more aggressive.”

Interesting. Even is this is proven (still waiting on jury on that) I am curious how much.
Lets break this down a bit more:

"that the universe of teens and adolescents who play violent games are, as a group, made more aggressive."

I must admit I am impressed and curious how you can speak for a "universe" then ignore the individuals that you are claiming to try to protect from said violent games but I digress.

No my interest in the "Teens and adolescents made more aggressive." part

1: Aggressive is not violent. You Sir are aggressive. Probably to subtle for you to understand.

2: If you intended to mean more violent then I want to know how much. There is not scale for this of course but lets invent one. 0 -- 99 with 99 being a born again killer of kittens and 0 being meek. Ok were is the average person on this scale? Lets say 20-25. Now when you say "more aggressive" I want to know how many points. Ah but it is not an exact science (you are claimed this) so I want to know.

How can you have it both ways?

There are so many holes in your argument (or the arguement of another that you have claimed and do not understand) I wonder if it whistles when the wind blows. I am curious how you do not see it. Ah but of course, as you yourself have claimed of Us. You are an anti-gamer and would not know of truth of it.

Wow, that story read like a cheap horror flick. Just label it "Bride of Jack Thompson" and move on to real stories.

@JT

"Honestly, do you people go to school and learn anything or what?"

I learned plenty, between law, psychology, and sociology classes for general education requirements I would put money on me being a better lawyer than you should I care to go back to school to change my profession. I also can read these studies and understand what they're saying instead of making up my own conclusions, and having read over these recent studies, the only ones that support your view point have absolutely no credibility due to numerous failings in their methods.

The other studies that are scientifically sound only conclude that people already predisposed towards violence will enjoy violent video games more than non-violent ones. Such a damaging conclusion, and certainly not one any sane and ration person would find obvious.

Obviously you didn't goto any school like my own since you would have failed 6th grade English, nor even have a chance in a college level class. You also fail to properly conduct yourself in a trial, failing even basic legal procedures that any sane and rational person off the street would be able to perform correctly.

As to the "One is a pretty small statistical pool, so the fact that you haven’t gone Columbine is fascinating but not really useful." By my count there's more non-violent posters here than there have been shootings where video gamer were even suspect as a cause, so your argument only detracts from your own side. If you had passed Kindergarten math you would have been able to count properly, but even this seems past your level of comprehension.

You might not be aware of this, but a study was done showing that the best and brightest were people who listened to heavy metal and played video games. So as you attack video games, you are attacking people smarter than you. In your brain damaged view of the world you might have missed this, but so far just about everyone here who has deigned to answer your posts have managed to disprove everything you've said with solid facts. They also generally do this without attacking you per se, and they also manage to use better language than you. Now, you are facing several problems, and there is one solution to your situation that will not end badly for you, the question is, are you intelligent enough and mature enough to find that solution?

"By my count there’s more non-violent posters here than there have been shootings where video gamer were even suspect as a cause, so your argument only detracts from your own side."

should read

"By my count there’s more non-violent posters here than there have been shootings where video games were even suspect as a cause, so your argument only detracts from your own side."

dang typos

hopefully this isn't a double post but it probably is >.>

@ Ix

Nicely said (and fewer typos than mine) and a well founded arguement.

Tis a pity he rarely if ever addresses solid arguements. (We used to call that being a yellowbelly chickenshit or a bit stonger in the Navy)

You hit him high and I'll hit him low.

No, that's the average gameing age. For every 33 year old, there are legions of under 13's.

@BlackIce, Leftie

Legions of under 13s who use foul language on Xbox Live

In the UK, the average gamer is 28.
There are plenty of young gamers, but there is also 3 generations of people who have been brought up around video games.