October 16, 2007
...she's Dr. Susan Bartell, and she's a psychologist who does guest spots on Fox.
The talking heads on The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet trotted her out during last week's segment examining the use of Halo 3 to attract teens to church.
Smart move, because Dr. Bartell is such an expert on video games that she's written a book. Oh, wait. The book is actually called Dr. Susan's Girls-only Weight Loss Guide: The Easy, Fun Way to Look and Feel Good.
But still. It's a book, she's a PhD, and the needs of the television audience must be served. Dr. Bartell proceeded to trash violent games in general while Halo 3 footage played onscreen. Here's what she said:
GP: This is your brain. This is your brain on violent video games... Dr. Bartell is relying on a 2006 Indiana University study to condemn Halo 3 but even the lead researcher didn't link the findings to violent behavior.
Co-host Juliet Huddy then came up with a pretty good question, asking Bartell, "Well why is it dangerous though if you see a lot more activity [in the brain scan]?"
Bartell's reply completely avoided the question. Instead she grabbed onto the old it's bad because it's interactive argument:
GP: Ummm... say excuse me? Is she really suggesting that a kid is going to go postal under those circumstances? Apparently...
GP: By "yesterday" she's referring to last week's Cleveland school shooting. Apparently she knows of some video game linkage to that incident that no one else is aware of. Her rant continues:
GP: Pardon me for getting on my high horse about this, but I found Dr. Bartell's ill-informed, fear-mongering rant to be pop psychology at its worst. Perhaps she should confine her professional opinions to eating disorders.
The talking heads on The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet trotted her out during last week's segment examining the use of Halo 3 to attract teens to church.
Smart move, because Dr. Bartell is such an expert on video games that she's written a book. Oh, wait. The book is actually called Dr. Susan's Girls-only Weight Loss Guide: The Easy, Fun Way to Look and Feel Good.
But still. It's a book, she's a PhD, and the needs of the television audience must be served. Dr. Bartell proceeded to trash violent games in general while Halo 3 footage played onscreen. Here's what she said:
When kids play violent video games, we can see that their brains are different than when they play non-violent games. That they actually change and their levels of emotional arousal increase dramatically. It's remarkable. It's really remarkable to see... We can see a very big difference in their brains which tells us how dangerous these games can be.
GP: This is your brain. This is your brain on violent video games... Dr. Bartell is relying on a 2006 Indiana University study to condemn Halo 3 but even the lead researcher didn't link the findings to violent behavior.
Co-host Juliet Huddy then came up with a pretty good question, asking Bartell, "Well why is it dangerous though if you see a lot more activity [in the brain scan]?"
Bartell's reply completely avoided the question. Instead she grabbed onto the old it's bad because it's interactive argument:
No, it's negative activity that the child really has to get into the CHARACTER of the person that they're playing that's killing all these poeple. So when they walk out of the ROOM and they go out into the streets and someone might bump into them, what are they going to do?
GP: Ummm... say excuse me? Is she really suggesting that a kid is going to go postal under those circumstances? Apparently...
They're going to react in that same highly aroused, angry way and we saw what just happened yesterday...
GP: By "yesterday" she's referring to last week's Cleveland school shooting. Apparently she knows of some video game linkage to that incident that no one else is aware of. Her rant continues:
Well you know what, when we add violent games to all the other bad things that are happening in the world we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that's not okay. That's criminal.
And people who are leading churches should not be allowing such dangerous games into their churches. There are other ways to bring teenagers in...
GP: Pardon me for getting on my high horse about this, but I found Dr. Bartell's ill-informed, fear-mongering rant to be pop psychology at its worst. Perhaps she should confine her professional opinions to eating disorders.
Comments
*Cough*Scapegoat*Cough*
Hey, I never noticed your had the name of the military branch of the KG/B/...
Fox news is ful of Fail. And a stimulated zone in the brain is active, that's all we can say right now, we can't read feelings and thoughts. And talking about "negative activity" makes me think of a nice little thing called "negative energy" which always makes me laugh.
When talking about brains, please don't use table turning names. You would know what I mean.
The Brain?! It's nice to have research, but neuro-research isn't perfect or conclusive to say the least. Need more research.
“No, it’s negative activity that the child really has to get into the CHARACTER of the person that they’re playing that’s killing all these poeple. So when they walk out of the ROOM and they go out into the streets and someone might bump into them, what are they going to do? ”
Negative activity? To some neuroscientist, it means calming or lowering brain activity, or does she meant hostile activity? Get your words clear!
One question: do brain activity and cognition (what we are thinking) correlate? Based on previous research, it should be, but we should ask that question anyway.
Anyways, she's giving psychology a bad eye and bad breath.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:01 am
So is she the New Jack Thompson, since Jack is cruising to irrelevancy?"
Naah, it's just Faux News doing what they always do - spreading falsehoods and sensationalist news for the lulz.
What do you expect from the same "experts" that air drawl like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyR_90RdOg
And besides that, she's not a paid whore for the video game industry, like some people we know. Jack Thompson
"Why is she saying these things? Because the entire American Psychological Association is officially saying exactly the same things."
You accuse people of not heeding the findings of the APA reports. I find it hilarious that you in turn ignore the statements by the people who actually carried out the reports explaining that there is no evidence of any kind of causal link between violent video games and violent behaviour. At best they suggest some kind of correlation, that people who are predisposed to violence might like violent entertainment (who'd have thunk it?).
The APA is not saying the exactly the same things. They are saying nothing like this, yet YOU are attempting to put words in their mouth.
You saying the APA found a causal link is like me telling people "Jack Thompson himself says that violent video games are completely harmless for children". It's a stament that supports my side of the argument, but it's completely untrue, just like all of yours.
Please read the the explanations by Dr. Bushman and others where they CLEARLY explain the findings (or lack thereof) of their studies. NOWHERE in any study will you see the word "causal", unless the sentence reads "There is no evidence of a causal link".
What I'm trying to do, on top of contributing my opinion to the discussion, is prove the point that if you are going to mention scientific findings and clinical/psychological studies (like Mr. Thompson and Dr. Bartell) why not take the time to provide links to the study...a quote...the name of a doctor involved in the study...for the sake of all that is sane, righteous, and humane, mention something which backs up your statement!!!!
It's that allowance check from his wife for mowing the lawn, doing dishes, keeping religion out of the bedroom. You kow, usual stuff.
I believe he is married... I think. I don't know who would ever think about hooking up with JT but... Hmm...
Hopefully his Son doesn't believe in all this "VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES KILLED PEOPLEZ!" crap. Someone should call child services so that he can't use his son to get people to believe all the lies he has said.
"And besides that, she’s not a paid whore for the video game industry, like some people we know. Jack Thompson "
Even Christ treated whores with respect, perhaps you should take a lesson from your own teachings.
His wife's name is something along the lines of Petunia..
In the meantime, I will continue being a nonviolent video-game-playing statistical nonentity and keep a weather eye on the horizon. The time when we will outnumber them is not far off, and all this will give way eventually to rational laws and policies that make sense.
1. love that "nonviolent video-game-playing statistical nonentity"; though i would add a few more hyphens.
2.You can only hope that we will develop rational laws and policies...
3. and no, VRsims or Flying cars dont make kids violent... its all those hologram music videos promoting sex and violence.
xD [might want to disregard this comment xD]
http://nationalgaynews.com/content/view/1883/173/
It is sad that this shit-head wastes taxpayer money on this bullshit. What a fucking asshole.
What a fool to assume violent games lead to kids going on rampages. They SHOULD have already learned right and wrong for one. Even if you not 17 and you own a mature rated game, you should have at least reached a maturity level so that you can react to this and say, yea but its only a game. If you cant, then shame on your dope parents or whomever, for getting it.
that link was a great read. Thank you.
For anyone who missed it, thank HJ for this one:
http://nationalgaynews.com/content/view/1883/173/
JT gets pwned in court.
oofty, what does the scouter say about the brain's power level?!
Oh yes. I went there.
Don't feel bad, I'm 23 but people think I'm 18... or younger.. even with a five o'clock shadow.
You're a good example of what most of here are talking about. People like this "doctor" think "children" can not differentiate right from wrong, or real from fantasy. That is blatantly false. They can. Maybe even better than many adults can. The idea that a kid will play Halo 3 and then try to murder a person for bumping in to them is fear-mongering at its best (or is that worst?). The fact is, EVERYONE of those "children" who have gone off the deep-end and murdered people, all of those school shooters, and all those gang members would do the exact same things without video games. There are other factors at work in those people. To say otherwise is escapism.
And Greek and Roman Mythology is awesome! You should try to enjoy it more.
http://www.commonsenseblog.org/bios/drsusanbartell.php
http://www.commonsenseblog.org/entryListPage.php?author=Dr.+Susan+Bartell
Is there something wrong with me?
@ Soldatlouis
Why am I not surprised this doctor(who apparently got her degree in a box of Froot Loops) is a part of a pro-censorship group?
the same EXACT change in activity occurs when playing a nonviolent game
seriously, when the original HALO came out like five years ago, then shouldn't all those kids that grew up with it be out and about killing people?
maybe they're just having trouble finding a plasma rifle
Yeah. VERY GOOD.
This is the whole anti-games movement summed up in one brief, dumb statement. I don't have to get into the character of Master Chief to play Halo 3. Same as I don't get into the character of Ryu or Ken with Street Fighter. Games present challenges, and your character has a certain array of tools/abilities which must be used skilfully to negotiate and overcome the challenges, whether it be the range of moves in a fighting game, or the guns in an fps, the items in a Zelda game, etc. Does a carpenter get into the character of a hammer or a chisel? Does a surgeon get into the character of a scalpel?
"Well you know what, when we add violent games to all the other bad things that are happening in the world we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s criminal."
If you take away the violent games, you are left with "all the other bad things that are happening in the world we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s criminal." Which is exactly the same situation, except it doesn't have a hobby that might let kids blow of steam once in a while.
That would be the British study on violent media. They went around and questioned a bunch of kids about their feelings on different media. Video games had the least amount of effect on the kids.
But onto the article, I could not expect less from a Fox show. But just yesterday I wrote a damning letter to one of my local news stations about the sensationalism in their headlines. So this is not confined to Fox. They just mastered it.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Regardless, this woman has been saying the same things we've been hearing from the other talking heads that are radically anti-game - nothing coherent. There are three types of arguments that they use:
1. The reference a study done on violent video game behavior, yet reading the study shows that it was inconclusive.
2. They reference a study done on violent video game behavior, yet reading the study shows that there "may" be a link between games and aggression IF you factor in that the person is already damaged in some faculties, such as being predisposed to violent acts in the first place, or mentally ill.
3. They reference nothing, stating that "some study, done somewhere, at some time, certainly backs up my opinion...I think."
Unfortunately all of these cases amount to absolutely nothing. Usually when they aren't referencing anything, they are spouting baloney about how interaction automatically assumes that they person will emulate the behavior TO THE LETTER outside of the interactive device. I wholly agree with Shoehorn's first statement above in this regard.
As for emulating...anyone else think they were Superman after they watched a non-interactive TV show or movie when they were a kid? :)
It really pisses me off to think that politicians take these "experts" seriously and think that the pro-gamers are a bunch of people that don't know anything, including the pro-gamers that are college professors like Henry Jenkins.
One more thing:
Please stop with the interactivity argument. It's basically saying that a Playboy magazine or a XXXX movie are less dangerous for the kids than games like Halo or Metal Gear Solid.
i'm going to mental health ward to check to see why i'm not a murderer.
leads to loss in credibility.
I agree totally...
Why? why wont these boxes float when i press "e"? *sniff* :'(
of course, why didnt i see this before! children who think more are dangerous to society, one may never know when they may assault us with their intelligent conversation or understanding of complex ideas.
"No, it’s negative activity that the child really has to get into the CHARACTER of the person that they’re playing that’s killing all these poeple."
"Does a carpenter get into the character of a hammer or a chisel? Does a surgeon get into the character of a scalpel?" ~Shoehorn O'Plenty
"we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s criminal."
ive been playing video games for nearly 20 years with my own fair share of violent games and i have yet to feel anything remotely like what she's describing.
"So when they walk out of the ROOM and they go out into the streets and someone might bump into them, what are they going to do? "
egads, i can only conjecture the possibilities! ;we should be more careful when bumping into video game playing children cacuse they might do something drastic like say 'excuse me' or 'be careful'. the horror!
"And people who are leading churches should not be allowing such dangerous games into their churches. There are other ways to bring teenagers in…"
i dont know if im the only one that's noticed this, but those 'ways' are growing dated and less effective each generation. imo, churches need to evolve beyond the draconian thinking that many i've seen fall into. as people in this new age become more secular, religion begins to lose its influence.
Sounds like what happens to most people when they watch an action movie and get too absorbed by it.