How Fox Morning Show Sensationalized the Halo-in-Church Issue

Earlier this week GamePolitics was highly critical of an appearance by Dr. Susan Bartell on Fox’s The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet.

Bartell, a psychologist and author, ripped violent video games in general and Halo 3 in particular. Putting it mildly, we took issue with her comments. (see: Who is This Person & Why is She Saying These Awful Things About Halo 3?)

Apparently, GamePolitics readers flooded Dr. Bartell’s e-mail with protests following our coverage. A dialogue of sorts developed between the good doctor and longtime GP reader Hayabusa75. Eventually, this led to my own correspondence with the psychologist.

Dr. Bartell was gracious, especially considering the cirumstances. I learned that she does quite a bit of TV. Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC – she’s been on all of them multiple times. She’s written four books and does a good bit of public speaking.

That being said, I was fascinated – and concerned – by what she told me about how the Halo-in-church discussion went down. If you haven’t seen it, watch the clip:

Here are some excerpts from e-mails between myself and Dr. Bartell:

GP:  One thing I found especially concerning… was [an e-mail] comment that you only saw the [Indiana University] brain scan pix five minutes before air [of The Morning Show]. That being the case, do you think it appropriate to go on and offer a professional opinion based on the scans to the audience?

Dr. Bartell: That’s the way it is with TV — it’s just not a black and white thing. I am genuinely sorry that it caused such a sense that I was being so disrespectful [to gamers]. The scans aside I stand by my opinion that violent games should not be played by teens… As to whether I should have responded to the scans — my intent was going on air to discuss whether the church should be holding Halo nights, clearly that was derailed.

GP: In all honesty, I’m having difficulty reconciling “that’s the way it is with TV” to responsible professionalism. It smacks of sensationalism. Just being candid here.

Dr. Bartell: I can understand how you feel… there is an element of sensationalism to it I suppose, but no less, IMO than all the hoopla created by the GP posters in response to my appearance. I appreciate candor — it will always help me grow as a person and as a professional. I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan! I’m just not that much of a purist…

Nice person, Dr. Bartell. But that aside, I can’t condone allowing herself to be portrayed to the audience as a subject matter expert, yet in actuality trying to explain a study she’d never seen until a Morning Show producer handed it to her just before air time.

And while I don’t doubt that some gamers were nasty in their e-mails, I’m not sure that’s relevant. Flame e-mails don’t help the gaming image, of course. But who’s got the greater responsibilty here?

I’d submit that it’s Dr. Bartell, who made these remarks on national TV because… why? The show must go on?

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  1. 0
    ow the pain says:

    Yes everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and that I respect, but the sheer ignorance pouring out of this video clip, I am sorry to say, that just hurts and the fact that FOX set it up is not enough of an excuse for Dr. Bartell to be completely forgiven on this.

  2. 0
    Flak ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    American Television is always so sensationalist. Dr. Bartell had no right to say the things she said. She is OF THE OPINION that teens shouldn’t play violent games… well, if I wanted someone’s opinion lady, I could have asked anyone. I want facts. I want science.

    You clearly have neither.

  3. 0

    […] The issue eventually reached a ridiculous climax with a staged Fox News trashing of video games (see: How Fox dawn Show Sensationalized the Halo-in-Church Issue). With the Easter season well underway, the issue has now been been revisited by The Baptist Standard: What do warthogs, pelicans, energy swords and Spartan lasers have in common? And how do they relate to John 1:17? […]

  4. 0
    Danny says:

    The biggest problem with that assumption is that the area of the brain has anything to do with ‘anger’ or ‘killing’.

    From a quick five minute study of the brain I have come to the conclusion that the area in question is a sensory one, processing what is going on in the screen in great detail and reacting to it quickly. This is a very important skill in shooters and central to playing well.

    So rather than anything to do with ‘anger’ or ‘killing’ it refers to prolonged hand-eye co-ordination, a positive trait which should be nurtured.

  5. 0

    […] GP: If Dr. Snyder has any expertise in video games, it remains unstated in the KETV report. However, as GamePolitics has demonstrated, it is not uncommon for mainstream news organizations to pull an uninformed psychologist into their reporting in an effort to add credibility (see How Fox Morning Show Sensationalised the Halo-in-Church Issue and Fox News Smears Mass Effect). […]

  6. 0
    Haggard ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    You know, as an atheist strongly opposed to organised religion, I think the bigger issue is that the Church is trying to steal kids away by tempting them with Halo, rather than the fact that violent content is being used in the house of an imaginary being.

  7. 0

    […] Escáneres Cerebrales y Violencia en los Videojuegos Publicado el Sábado, Febrero 9, 2008 por Daniel Jiménez Desde que en 2006 Vincent Mathews, investigador de la Universidad de Indiana, publicara un estudio sobre la influencia de los videojuegos violentos utilizando métodos de resonancia magnética, los escáneres cerebrales se han esgrimido como “prueba” de que nos afectan. Fox News, un blog en español o la sección de noticias de KETV, entre otros, emplearon este argumento que parece ser la última moda en cuanto a criminalizar a los videojuegos se refiere. […]

  8. 0
    Sabbatai says:

    @ Jack Thompson..

    …Oh, Dennis, for Heaven’s sake. Brain scan studies at Harvard, Michigan State, and Indiana University all prove the same thing–that violent images are processed in a different part of the brain in teens than adults…

    Great. Now where are the studies on where teens process ..”first person roller-coaster ride” images compared to adults? Images of vegetables? Images of religious icons? Images of Jack Thompson?

    What study exists that shows me unequivocally that the area processing the images in the teen brain is less capable of discerning fantasy from reality, or that this part of the brain somehow inhibits the ability to distinguish right from wrong?

    Or the studies that show that this part of the brain is fine for processing images but the parts of the brain that send the “moral” and “legal” signals to the impulses created by violent images can’t get their signals through to the suspect “teen image processor” part of the brain?

    No, seriously, I am asking because if any of these things exist I want to know!

  9. 0

    […] Fox News es probablemente la cadena de noticias más sensacionalista de Estados Unidos, y el trato que ha otorgado al sector de los videojuegos es un perfecto ejemplo de ello. No sólo ha invitado con frecuencia a Jack Thompson a opinar como “experto en videojuegos” (incluyendo una aparición tras la Masacre de Virginia donde culpaba sin pruebas a Counter-strike) sino que recientemente realizó otra sensacionalista crítica del medio apoyándose en estudios sobre escáneres cerebrales que en realidad no indicaban lo que una “experta” aseguraba por televisión: que los videojuegos vuelven violentos a los niños. Dr. Bartell, la “experta” en cuestión, reconocería más tarde que desconocía el estudio sobre el que se basaban tales escáneres y que había sido obligada a hablar de ellos minutos antes de que empezara el programa. […]

  10. 0

    […] Nuestro discurso ha ido madurando a lo largo de los años, pero lo cierto es que no he conocido a nadie que se haya disculpado tras calumniar a nuestra comunidad cuando nos defendíamos de una manera más adulta y razonable. Visto el éxito que han tenido los aficionados con estas tácticas de acoso virtual (que sigo sin aprobar) creo que es algo que volverá a repetirse, ya que no es la primera vez que consiguen una disculpa mediante este método. […]

  11. 0
    Foster says:

    Why is it so absurd that the church used mainstream media to bring in youth? If it’s the fact that it’s “violent”, that is completely irrelevant. Violence has fueled religion for thousands of years. More people have died in the name of religion than for any other reason. Violence and religion go hand in hand. I mean come on, the bible says “do this or you go to hell, the most violent place in existence. Also, anyone who says this religion isn’t correct is also going to hell. We condemn people who are violent but we threaten you with violence if you don’t follow our proprietary rules.” If you think about it, religion has never really had a problem with violence, it’s one of the very things it directly causes and indirectly advocates.

  12. 0
    Zerodash ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Jack

    Please read the correspondences with Dr. Bartell. Despite her opinions on Games and Gamers, she is polite and willing to discuss this topic on a SANE level.

    Your lack of similar grace, manners, and professionalism is why you are so reviled by just about anyone who deals (directly and indirectly) with you.

    Learn something or you’ll wish you did.

  13. 0
    Pierre-Olivier ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    First, let me congratulate Mrs. Bartell for apologizing and explain herself. She seems like a nice lady that would actually listen to someone who brings a counterpoint (unlike someone we know). If only those who push and support game laws were like this (then again, maybe some are. Yee may probably listen, but he didn’t interact with the gaming community yet.)

    Thompson doesn’t even TRY. The only time I remember that a gamer asked him question about a counterpoint, he simply said “You’re a gamer. You can’t understand” (Note: I’m recalling that from memory so I apologize if I got it wrong)

    And she’s also honest. This is much more appreciable that a certain person-that-lies-so-much-that-he-believe-his-lies who shall remain nameless.

  14. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Yeah she is. Even if she skipped over the more important arguments, at least she presented herself very professionally and logically. I gained a lot of respect for her as a person, even if I disagree completely with her stance in relation to violence in games.

    She does however have an extremely good point about the Halo 3 Church incident. For the church to promote Halo 3 seems like a desperate last measure for a failing group, and I don’t believe it was the right thing to do.

    The fact that she recognised that maybe there wasn’t a whole lot of factual information behind what she was trying to say is respectable, but still doesn’t excuse the fact that it was said on national TV. Still, much more retional and respectable than JT.

  15. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Man, about 75% of her response to you was basically verbatim to the one she sent me! I guess I’m not as special as I thought. :(

    She IS a nice lady though, isn’t she?

  16. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Ugh. Sorry about that GP, is there any way you can fix my posts for more clarity and so the formatting isn’t all screwed up? I apologize, I don’t think the copy/paste worked as well as it should have :(

  17. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    And then there was one more. Short, and basically ending the dialogue. As a side note, I would like to thank Dr. Susan for remaining calm in the face of so much heat and providing some counterpoints. I enjoy debate, but must conclude by saying that it would have been nice if some of her claims were backed up by some sort of reference, but being that this was in no way a professional or acadamic debate I’ll let it slide :).

    Also, the italicised quotes didn’t get italicised. It is confusing to read, sorry about that.

    @Dr. Susan:
    Well, despite your concerns obviously the posters are not sick of you and I feel our dialogue was very valid and presented both sides far more clearly than JT ever has or could. As a result, I have posted all the emails here. Sorry for the long posts Dennis, the last one is awaiting moderation.

    Here is the last letter from Dr. Susan:

    Hi Christian,

    I very much appreciate your apology and your thoughtful response. I’ve actually been having a similar one with Mitch which I believe will be posted on GP. I think if you post ours too, the GP bloggers will be thoroughly sick of me. You make some very valid points. But personally, I don’t let my kids–or recommend to others–to play violent video games (I have no problem with videogames in general!), or watch violent movies or TV (including the news when they are younger). I do believe it has an impact on them in many different ways. I see it clinically all the time. But, I can very respectfully disagree with you and appreciate the enormous amount of thought that you have put into your response. As I said in an email to Dennis McCauley, I will say that I have about 30 or more really great TV appearances, on many topics that I haven’t put on youtube yet because I just don’t know how–I think I should send them to you!! You have amazing power on the net–I’ve been everywhere lately. And when my next book comes out, I’m sending it straight to GP for a great review!

    Very best, Susan
    Dr. Susan S. Bartell

  18. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    And my rebuttal to her email. All the references that I have here took about 2 seconds of Googling to find, I don’t like when people don’t take time to cite sources and still make wild claims.

    Dear Dr. Susan,

    Firstly, thank you for not stooping to my level. I must admit I was a little bit steamed and overzealous when I had written that letter and some of my comments were very insulting. It simply frustrates me when my profession comes under obviously misguided fire.

    Secondly, I would request your permission to post your response over on Gamepolitics as I think it really has some valid debate and merit to its construction. It’s not often that we get to see someone who takes the time to make logical arguments to those over on that site. Jack Thompson doesn’t count, his conduct doesn’t befit a goat, nevermind being a lawyer. That’s probably why he is soon to be disbarred by the Florida Bar, but that’s a different topic.

    I would like to continue this discussion as I still believe your argument is very weak and you still have no conclusive evidence, and continue to miss the larger picture. Allow me to elaborate.

    I applaud that you realise that games are not the sole reason for teen violence. If that’s the case, why would you go on NATIONAL TV, only making arguments against media? There is no way that media plays a bigger role in these tragic events than does abuse, mental instability and access to lethal firearms. This is precisely the reason why every single video game restricting bill has been struck down on First Amendment grounds. I made this argument in my first email, and it is a strong one. The reason why these bills were struck down, even with the report you have listed here (the APA study), it was still deemed there is no conclusive evidence that violent games cause violence in real life.

    As for the church, I have already agreed with you that it was a very stupid thing to do. However, if the church is restricting teens to the age limits set by the ESRB and monitors their play, I don’t believe there is a problem. Apart from the fact that Halo is violent (in a very cartoony sense), and the church is supposed to abhor all violence. Their hypocrisy is my only issue with that.

    Not all kids who drink will become alcoholics or die in drunk driving accidents; and not all kids who are new drivers will have accidents when you put too many of them in a car.

    Drinking is a chemical change resulting from a poisonous additive to your body, playing games is not. Also you are trying to provoke similarities between something that can be obviously fatal if a mistake is made (ODing or crashing the car), to an entertainment activity. This is a loaded statement, and I have been taught not to play with loaded guns.

    This is why we have laws about underage drinking and the like and why parents should (BUT DON’T) supervise violent video game playing (or TV or movies)

    There it is. This is the crux of the argument, and this is something that we have been saying since the dawn of gaming. Some games are NOT DESIGNED for children, some games have very adult themes, images and characters. Would you give your child a copy of Saw? Having said that, if there is a parent there to provide a guiding hand and point out all the inappropriate content to the child, it can be very beneficial to the child’s development. Myself, and many hundreds of thousands of gamers had parents who played with them during their upbringing. Violent games even, I played DOOM with my father when I was growing up. Not only did it provide us with a strong sense of healthy competition, which was only ever limited to the virtual world may I add, it also provided a stronger grounds to bond. We both had the same interests, that is not something that many children have with their parents: their interests are usually mutually exclusive. Games have the advantage of being able to break that boundary like no other media.

    Regardless of what you chose to focus on (obviously the picture of the brain!) during my two minutes on the air, the research is clear–violent video games are associated with violent behavior in teens and children whose brains aren’t yet fully formed, whose impulses aren’t developed and whose judgment is not yet good.

    Well, no, it isn’t clear is it? Otherwise there would be no debate and every video game bill would have passed unanimously in federal court. As it stands, not a single one has, even being based on the same reports you cite. And of course they can be associated with violent behaviour, every teenager nowadays plays video games. Reading, playing and watching sports and a bad home life are also associated. Why focus on games, where there is no conclusive evidence supporting your argument compared to other contributing factors? Further, these reports that you cite can be attributed to ANY MEDIA. Even the bible. Don’t believe me? Here:
    This report finds links between people reading The King James’ Bible and increased aggression. And guess what? The leading researcher on this report is none other than Brad Bushman who happens to also be a leading researcher in that APA report you cited. Oh dear. Why aren’t you up in arms about the bible and religious fanatics? Why are you not trying to limit access to Bibles to children and have restrictions imposed on the sale of the Bible? There have been far more religious killings in the history of this planet than there could ever be with video games, and yet you’ve somehow chosen games as your target. And just in case that wasn’t proof enough that simply citing ONE inconclusive report is not adequate by any means, here’s a couple more:
    Child care linked to aggression in children. Maybe we should sanction child carers and have age restrictions on that too.,23599,21517318-421,00.html
    Food additives linked to child aggression! Only adults should eat food!

    Do you see how ridiculous these reports are? The difference between you and I is that, forgive my assumption, you have never be a part of gaming culture and haven’t seen the obvious social and entertainment benefits that gaming provides. As a result, you are fearful of such a popular media, it is the unkown and all humans are wary of the unkown. Hopefully now you can understand why what you are doing is simply scapegoating the easiest target.

    Teen violence is increasing—you may not realize it because you don’t work with teens on a daily basis. I see it every single day.

    No. You are wrong. That may be your perception, but overall in America statistics prove that violent crimes have been on a downward trend since 1993. How ironic, that’s when the golden age of video games began. Proof, from the Bureau of Justice Statistics page:

    Here’s a quote directly from that link:

    According to the victim’s perception of the age of the offender, the number of serious violent offenses committed by persons ages 12 to 17 declined 61% from 1993 to 2005, while those committed by persons older than 17 fell 58%.

    In fact, overall for violent crimes in the US, including adults:

    Since 1994, violent crime rates have declined, reaching the lowest level ever in 2005.

    And regardless of those statistics, you still fail to acknowledge that these kinds of tragedies occurred long before video games were even conceived. Youth violence and crime has been an issue for far longer than video games have been around. Knowing this, why do you suddenly blame video games?

    So, Christian, without giving up one inch or your passion for what you do for a living, it would be helpful to me– if you, as someone in the industry, would take my side and advocate for safe use of violent games by adults only.

    No. That is not my decision to make, nor yours unless it involves our own children. And it ESPECIALLY is not the government’s choice to dictate what OUR children should be viewing. That is called censorship, and is protected by your First Amendment, because it impinges on the freedom which our countries hold so dear. Just like some parents won’t let their children play Ice Hockey, you can also make the choice to not let them play M rated games unsupervised. On the other hand, you can be there for your child at an Ice Hockey game, or you can sit down and play the latest violent game with them and guide them through all the moral implications and have a great deal of fun doing both. What kind of freedom are you supporting if you can be charged as a criminal for providing a child with ENTERTAINMENT?

    Now to address one more issue–I am not a celebrity psychologist–I am a psychologist specializing in the behavior of children and teens. Anyone who takes the time to look closely at my work, will see that I have written enormous amounts far beyond ‘eating issues’ (my most recent books), for teens, kids and their parents on many, many subjects, including kids’ emotions and I’ve been working extensively with teens for nearly twenty years and understand teen behavior. I am extensively published–as a book author, in parenting magazines throughout the country, and I am consistently quoted in many well-respected newspapers and magazines as an expert. I appear as an expert for many TV and radio outlets other than Fox–for whom I am NOT a paid contributor.

    I apologize for pigeon-holing you into that role. But you must understand, it is exactly BECAUSE you are so widely recognised, that when you make these comments and claims; which are completely opinionated, not factually based and without conclusive proof, that all you are doing is fear-mongering and scapegoating. I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion. I am saying you should not be jumping on national television and claiming absolute truth to your claims without evidence, promoting more fear in an already fear crippled country and slandering and debasing the most popular entertainment culture in the world today, exactly what happened to comic books, D&D and metal music in the past. Did you know that 9 million people play one game together in social groups online, World of Warcraft? 9 Million, and that is just one of the many hundreds of thousands of games available today. You can not even begin to imagine the number of people that your words have offended with this television appearance.

    I would ask also in the future, if you are going to make claims about things such as teen violence increasing that you please provide some sort of reference so I know you’re not just blowing smoke. It makes you look unprofessional if you’re caught in a lie. There is a lawyer who does exactly the same thing, and I’m sure you don’t want to end up being like him.


    Christian Carriere
    Level Designer Krome Studios HQ
    111 Constance Street Fortitude Valley, Brisbane QLD 4006, Australia
    Ph 07 3333 1768 Ext: 132

  19. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Apologies for the formatting of that last post, that’s not how it was supposed to look :P. In any case, here’s her reply. Included with her email was an excerpt from a study by the American Psychological Association.

    Dear Christian,
    I admit that I am responding to your email with trepidation given that I
    have followed the blog regarding my appearance and havereceived several extremely hostile emails to which I will not respond. But since it is my policy to respond to everyone who takes the time out of their day to write thoughtfully and respectfully, I will certainly respond to you, and since I noted on the blog that you spent an hour constructing your
    letter to me, I feel that I owe you a response.

    There is a great deal of solid neurological and neuropsychological research
    that demonstrates that violent videogames, TV and movies impact negatively on the behavior of kids and teens. These studies are far from inconclusive, in fact quite the opposite. I have provided you with a summary below of some of this research.

    That being said–I am NOT saying–and did NOT say that videogames are THE SOLE reason that violent behavior occurs—that would be ridiculous. But if you take a kid who is living in a tough world, or a family where he is not getting enough positive attention or supervision and then his church
    ENDORSES a very violent game–there is a good chance that this kid could
    bring his violence into the real world. This is not something of rhetoric.
    Kids and teens are impressionable, labile and very, very impulsive. Not all
    kids who drink will become alcoholics or die in drunk driving accidents; and
    not all kids who are new drivers will have accidents when you put too many
    of them in a car. But the odds increase dramatically because the brains of
    kids and teens are not yet fully formed and respond differently to stimuli
    than the brains of adults—this is a neurological fact. This is why we have
    laws about underage drinking and the like and why parents should (BUT DON’T) supervise violent video game playing (or TV or movies) and why the church shouldn’t be allowing it. If you or other adults choose to play these games, it’s your choice—I don’t have any opinion or judgment about that one way or another, and I certainly don’t claim to challenge your expertise in the field or undermine it. However, I do expect you to respect mine as a teen expert—not as a videogaming expert.

    What I don’t understand is the vehement reaction to my comments. The segment was actually about the church using violent video games to lure kids in–do you think that part is okay?–I saw only one mention of that in the blog and the poster agreed that it was wrong! Regardless of what you chose to focus on (obviously the picture of the brain!) during my two minutes on the air, the research is clear–violent video games are associated with violent behavior in teens and children whose brains aren’t yet fully formed, whose impulses aren’t developed and whose judgment is not yet good. And I want to really clarify this–violence isn’t only about picking up a gun and shooting someone. Aggressive behavior can be reflected in physical fights with peers,
    threatening to punch your mom, road-rage, cursing threateningly at a store
    clerk who didn’t move fast enough for you; scratching the car of a teacher
    who gave you a bad grade, etc. You may not notice these things as aggressive
    because you’re so focused on the guns because that’s what’s on TV and
    because you for some reason you’re not looking at the big picture and
    because you’re so intent on bashing me.

    I don’t know if you have kids, but if you do, don’t you want to control as
    many factors in their environment that could lead to them growing up
    healthily—both physically and emotionally? There are so many things parents can’t control—like war, for example. For that reason, it’s important to control the things we can. I am an advocate of parents and institutions
    taking responsibility for kids’ health whenever possible—very often they don’t. The ratings on videogames and movies ARE there for a reason—because kids ’ brains are still developing. But so many parents not only ignore them, they don’t even know what games are in their child’s room! And it’s inexcusable that a church would use a game like Halo 3, often without parental consent. Teen violence is increasing—you may not realize it because you don’t work with teens on a daily basis. I see it every single day. There are many components that contribute to this. Violent videogames is one of them. So, Christian, without giving up one inch or your passion for what you do for a living, it would be helpful to me– if you, as someone in the industry, would take my side and advocate for safe use of violent games by adults only.

    Now to address one more issue–I am not a celebrity psychologist–I am a
    psychologist specializing in the behavior of children and teens. Anyone who
    takes the time to look closely at my work, will see that I have written
    enormous amounts far beyond ‘eating issues’ (my most recent books), for
    teens, kids and their parents on many, many subjects, including kids’
    emotions and I’ve been working extensively with teens for nearly twenty
    years and understand teen behavior. I am extensively published–as a book author, in parenting magazines throughout the country, and I am consistently quoted in many well-respected newspapers and magazines as an expert. I appear as an expert for many TV and radio outlets other than Fox–for whom I am NOT a paid contributor.

    I thank you again for your genuine, albeit, not especially polite email and
    hope that this clarifies some of your questions.
    Best regards, Susan

    Dr. Susan S. Bartell

  20. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Good morning Dr. Susan,

    I have just read through the transcript from your appearance on FOX’s
    The Morning Show with Mike and Juliet. I was appalled and disgusted at
    your obvious scapegoating of the world’s most popular new media. First,
    let it be known that I work in the industry. I make these video games
    that are supposed to “train kids to kill” and promote increased
    aggression. Therefore I can say with the utmost certainty that your
    words do far more damage to our personal creativity than you could ever
    do to the industry in any meaningful way. And yes, games development is
    a profession and a career. University degrees in design are a MINIMUM to
    get into this industry, PhDs are common. Uninformed people like you who
    blast their views on national television without taking the time to
    research or make arguments based on selectively abstracted data are
    merely fear-mongers who are too close minded to accept the next
    evolution in entertainment. It has happened before with so many media;
    radio, comics, D&D, television, movies, metal and rap music..What you
    are doing is nothing new, it infuriates me that you can’t learn from
    past mistakes.

    I hope you can at least afford the time to reply to someone who’s
    profession may be damaged or tarred by your words.

    I feel I have to correct you on a number of your more ridiculous points.
    Maybe you don’t realise this, but the fact that you’re on a FOX network
    trying to censor violent video games is the most hypocritical knee jerk
    action I could envisage. Have a look at FOX News and FOX’s prime time
    viewing. It is rife with violence and themes unsuitable for children and
    yet you have the gall to blame video games for all sorts of teen
    violence? How can you possibly justify criticizing video games when
    there is footage of bombs and suicide bombers erupting all over the
    world; torture, murder, rape, executions and hundreds of innocent people
    dying in a war that even the American people realise is unjustified? And
    this is all REAL, and all on prime time news. Now you tell me that video
    games are the problem. Secondly, you realise that FOX owns the rights to
    advertise Halo 3 as well as many other “violent games” don’t you? This
    is hypocritical scapegoating at it’s worst, and all the many millions of
    people who enjoy the challenges and cerebral, immersive nature of video
    games demand an apology.

    Now let me expand a little on some of your quotes from the show.
    *“No, it’s negative activity that the child really has to get into the
    CHARACTER of the person that they’re playing that’s killing all these
    You are not a neuro-scientist. Your PhD is in a completely different
    field, your expertise is on /teen eating disorders/ no less, and your
    words are purely speculation. Players of video games no more get “into”
    their character than carpenters get “into” their hammer, or surgeons
    “into” their scalpel. Video games’ characters are a tool used to
    overcome challenges and explore worlds and stories. Each character in
    all the various games has a unique set of skills and traits that must be
    taken advantage of and used within the limitations of the game
    mechanics, decided by us: the designers. Further, if you had actually
    researched the study you are quoting at all, you would realise that,
    while there is a definite change in brain activity there is absolutely
    no causation between game play and violence. In fact, the study
    mentioned does not even mention a correlation, simply saying further
    study is required. You have come up with your own false conclusion and
    speculation about this report.

    */“…we can have kids who are aroused to that negative level that they
    might want to go out and pick up a gun and that’s not okay. That’s

    Interesting. So it’s not a problem at all that there’s a gun lying
    around unsupervised in the first place, it must be the video game that
    told them to do that? Did you ever wonder why there are so many
    shootings in America compared to the rest of the world, even though all
    of the rest of the world also plays video games? Further, how exactly
    does holding an ellipsoid controller and pressing the X button teach you
    how to fire, load and clean a gun? I have shot many guns before, and
    there is no game on earth that accurately replicates aiming and firing a
    gun. A game cannot teach you to shoot a gun. In fact, a NERF gun widely
    available in any toy store around America, is more of an accurate
    training tool than any game. This is a completely ludicrous statement to
    have made.

    /*“And people who are leading churches should not be allowing such
    dangerous games into their churches. There are other ways to bring
    teenagers in…”*
    Well, there actually isn’t a whole lot of other ways. Games are the
    national past time not just for children, but for adults of all ages as
    well. People now spend more time playing video games each week than
    watching TV, and who can blame them with all the tragedy and death in
    the world? I actually agree with your point about churches not using
    violent games, but for completely different reasons. It is a
    contradiction on the churches part, but the games are in no way “dangerous.”

    /*Interview Conductor: “…couldn’t it be the same if you were going to
    see a Broadway play.”
    Dr. Bartell: “Well, the increased activity was found around a brain
    structure called the amygdala, which is responsible for controlling

    You tried to completely dodge this question and yet, you managed to
    effectively contradict yourself. So games heighten emotions, why should
    that be suprising? So does playing with your child, watching an action
    flick or talking with a friend, going to see a Broadway play (see how
    your evasion was not very well executed?) or playing sport. Increased
    brain activity does not mean increased aggression, and if you had chosen
    to actually read the outcome of the report, then maybe you’d understand.

    Allow me to elaborate on the actual outcome of that study, found here

    /This fMRI study using modified Stroop paradigms demonstrated that
    following violent video game playing subjects produced relatively less
    activation in regions associated with executive function but more
    activation in regions associated with emotional arousal. Further study
    is needed to determine if this combination of effects could make these
    individuals more likely to engage in violent behavior.

    There is no mention of causation at all here, all it states is that
    those playing violent games make less strategic decisions and are more
    emotional. That does NOT say that playing violent games causes violent
    behaviour. And that is limited to one particular genre of game. What if
    the player was playing a Real Time Strategy (a tactical, decision making
    genre) or a puzzle game? You have abstracted and twisted the
    interpretation of this report to your own ends and as someone who has a
    little bit of academic credence, you should be ashamed of yourself. For
    not citing your sources, you have failed scapegoating 101. Ir’s obvious
    that you didn’t want people to read the reports themselves and find out
    the truth.

    /*We can see a very big difference in their brains which tells us how
    dangerous these games can be.*
    So what you’re trying to tell me is that increased brain activity is
    bad? You would rather all our children be brain dead and unable to
    function. Reading a book increases activity in the brain, as does
    watching TV, breathing, eating, talking, blinking, and coming up with
    uninformed and biased comments on national TV. Congratulations for
    making the least sense in any comment ever uttered in an interview.

    I think you can clearly see why I felt I had to write you this morning.
    Everything you said on that show was so very ignorant of the real issues
    at hand that I fail to believe they could realistically call you an
    “expert” on national television. You, like Jack Thompson who I know you
    have conversed with, are completely missing the point. Why in the hell
    are you people forcing CHILDREN to play MATURE rated games which are
    intended for adults? There are such a thing as ESRB ratings you know.
    They clearly label the kind of content found in the game and are easily
    viewable on the box. The most irresponsible people here are you, for
    providing children with entertainment deemed suitable for ADULTS.
    Further, ESRB ratings are a requirement for the box product to be sold
    in stores. Why are you letting children play these violent games in the
    first place? It is up to the parents to decide what their children
    immerse themselves in, not the government, like you seem to be
    promoting. That is called censorship and is precisely the reason why
    every single video game bill has failed under First Amendment concerns.
    Censorship is not freedom, which you are all so normally forceful in
    protecting when video games aren’t involved.

    That is the real issue here; not that games cause violence, which is
    unproven, and untrue. Video games have been around for the greater part
    of 25 years, and in that time there have been a few school shootings.
    Out of the millions upon millions of people who play video games,
    violent and not, I can count the number of tragic school shootings on my
    fingers alone. Know why video games are the common denominator? Because
    everyone plays them, and as the new most popular media they are easy to
    blame for close minded, ignorant, fearful people such as yourself. How
    about looking at some of the less sensational common denominators of
    mentally disturbed, violent individuals: abuse, bullying, violent
    upbringing, hereditary mental defects, access to lethal firearms. I
    challenge you to go to a school and find someone that has never played
    or watched a video game. Further, even though games have been around for
    only a quarter of a decade why is there such a violent history in
    America for the last 200 years? Did video games force you to take
    slaves, start wars and form gangs as well? The gamers and game makers of
    the world have had enough of your unresearched, biased rhetoric and
    request that you apologise before you, like Jack Thompson before you,
    destroy your career by trying to blame all of life’s tragedies on the
    easiest scapegoat you can find.

    If I’ve offended you, good. Your words have offended a great many people
    both as gamers and game makers, and it’s time someone pointed out your
    lies and hypocrisy.


    Christian Carriere
    Level Designer
    Krome Studios HQ
    111 Constance Street
    Fortitude Valley, Brisbane QLD 4006, Australia
    Ph 07 3333 1768 Ext: 132

  21. 0
    Juggernautz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    OK, so breaking away from the religious arguments here for a while (not the main focus of this article), I also had a dialogue with Dr. Susan and I must say she conducted herself very well and enlightened me on her side of the argument. It makes me feel bad because my first letter was… zealous, to say the least. I still stand by everything I said, minus all the ad hominem attacks and insults (I was angry) and I will post my dialogue here. These emails are quite large but worth the read, especially Dr. Susan’s first reply.

  22. 0
    Mnementh2230 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Jack Thompson – you’ve been pwnt again. And like the troll that you are, you won’t come back on to refute the argument. You’ve lost, and you know it, but you’ll be back sooner or later to spout the same crap that will be refuted the same way. After about ten rounds of this shit, you’ll finally come up with something new but similarly flawed, and we’ll start the cycle all over again. You know how this ends? You get disbarred and lose all credibility, you no longer go on television, and your ego crumples into a tiny little ball, taking what remains of your sanity with it.

    Face it Jack, you’re just wrong, and there’s no lie you can say to save your skin.

  23. 0
    Erik ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Dennis. You really should have asked her to extrapolate on the “bumping into someone and killing them” point. As if if she actually thinks thats anywhere a viable scenario.

  24. 0
    qAaRoN says:

    So…Dr. Bartell says that after playing HALO 3, if I went out into the street and bumped into someone, I’d carry that same rash behavior of wanting to kill them.

    Yeah, if that someone was an alien life-form of the Covenant or the Flood. Even then, being unarmed, I’d probably run for my life.

  25. 0
    BearDogg-X says:

    @ Jack Thompson

    The brain-scan studies are crap, since several federal courts looked at it and completely refuted that garbage. Here’s an idea, the next time there’s a school shooting, why don’t you go ask the Sports Legacy Institute(the same people that examined Chris Benoit’s brain) to examine the perpetrator’s brain and see if it was damaged?

    Any true scientist will tell you that science can’t actually prove anything true; it can only prove something false. Prof. Tremblay effectively proved the APA study to be false.

    Practice what you preach, gay porn distributor: Grow up and get a life.

  26. 0
    Alyric ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I do agree with the previous posters that she should never have tried to act knowledgeable about a subject she’d just been introduced to.

    That said – and I apologize if somebody else has pointed this out, I didn’t have time to read through the entire thread – as she herself stated she was handed the material five minutes before appearing. Five minutes. Given that she’s not exactly a household name, I imagine at that point she might have felt pressured into appearing – that she didn’t have much choice left in the matter. Perhaps she even felt she could steer the conversation away from that material.

    Either way, I believe the fact that she was willing to admit she knew nothing about the subject speaks to her character – of course, it could go either way. It’s possible she’s trying to be open and honest, or it could be that she’s trying to say “It’s not my fault – blame them!”. Really, only she knows her motivation, and under the circumstances I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt, even though I don’t agree with her ideas or conclusions.

  27. 0
    Erik ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “Dr. Bartell is a reasonable human being.”

    One who has never told someone to get “good at a suicide game”.

    Or tried to have us arrested by Homeland Security.

  28. 0

    @Coravin — Old Testament was ancient Hebrew (what you call “Arimathean”), the New Testament was written after Christ had left this world, in the common language of the world at the time, Greek. At that time, there already was a Greek translation of the Old Testament as well.

    My father was a Lutheran minister when he was alive, and would regularly return back to texts in the original languages, because translations fail (every English translation has some flaws in it). That said, if you look up the New Testament’s origins, you’d find that the books were originally written in ancient Greek — in an effort to make them somewhat “accessible” to the people of that time. And yes, even the four gospels were written in Greek.

    @jack thompson, attorney

    Cry more, please. I’d think you would have to spend more time preparing your defense in the upcoming court cases filed by the Florida BAR against you. But maybe you’ve already thrown in the towel on those.

  29. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    Dr. Bartell is a reasonable human being. Dennis McCauley is a very reasonable human being. Jack Thompson is not a reasonable human being.

    I, being one of the few who HAVE indirectly or directly threatened your person, am plagued with a complete intolerance of anyone more than a little right of the center. I, have cause outside of insanity for my actions. You, do not.

    Ever wonder why everyone hates you? Judges don’t agree with you and you can’t hold an arguement together? It’s because you insult those arguing against you, sue them in some cases and generally act like a five year old who’s parents won’t buy them an ice cream. Deal with it Jackie boy. Deal with it.

  30. 0
    Erik ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “because the scans at Harvard, Indiana, and Michigan State Universities prove the harm.”

    And just what “harm” would that be? You should know that aggression is a normal and healthy human emotion. As has been stated before even peewee sports leagues increase aggression.

    Anyways has this “proof of harm” ever helped you win a case Jack? Or has it ever helped any state pass anti-video game legislation?

  31. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Someone should do a brain scan study of individuals who’ve just read a typical Jack Thompson post. Bet you’d see a whole lot more color!

    @Jack Thompson:

    I can safely say that your constant sh_t-talking has created more desire in me to perpetuate violent acts than any video game ever could. Good thing I have my video games to channel my aggression away!

  32. 0
    DavCube ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Jack, practice what you preach. You’ve LOST. Deal with it, and get a life.

    You’ve wasted a decade of your life, not a few months, not a year, one DECADE, doing nothing but making a fool of yourself. Anyone with a brain stem aside from you can see that.

  33. 0
    jack thompson, attorney ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Dr. Bartell hasn’t had her life threatened by GP posters, and she hasn’t had Dennis McCauley file a Bar complaint against her. Just wait. You clowns will get around to going after her career and her medical license if you get sufficiently exercised.

    Finally, Dennis McCauley is totally incapable of rebutting the brain scan studies on the harm done by violent media on kids’ brains, because the scans at Harvard, Indiana, and Michigan State Universities prove the harm.

    You all are just upset that this evidence is now out in the public domain. Deal with it, and get a life.

    GP: Anyone who sends out a threat is just an idiot, an asshole, or both. No exceptions to that rule.

    OTOH, for you, a grown man, a parent, a self-proclaimed Christian to go onto game sites frequented by these impressionable adolescents that you claim you are so worried about, hurl nasty, generalized insults about gamers and attach your phone number & e-mail to it, aren’t you helping to incite that behavior? Does it suit your crusade in some way if you receive a threat? You’ve certainly issued press releases about those cases.

    I’ve received at least one death threat. Your buddy Dave Grossman has said the he’s received them. I laughed about mine and Grossman doesn’t seem fazed, either.

    As far as the brain scans, this “irrefutable” evidence has failed to persuade a single federal judge that games cause violence. Even the lead researcher did not draw that conclusion from the data.

  34. 0
    ooftygoofty says:

    Didn’t this used to be a game news site?

    Anyway, I’m wondering if Dr. Bartell showing an ounce of civility toward those who disagree with her makes her less “awesome” to JT.

  35. 0
    Coravin ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Not that it changes the intent or anything of your statements, but I’m pretty sure a lot of the New Testament was only later translated to Greek from Arimathean…or whatever language it was Jesus spoke.

    I have an original-languages-along-with-translations copy of the Bible somewhere, but each bound tome of that (there are six, I think) is bigger than a truly unabridged dictionary and thus not with me in my travels, so I can’t actually be sure of the language at this time of morning. So much for being a Biblical and linguistic scholar, ugh.

    So, I’m basing the “Arimathean” claim on sheer memory of my Arthurian studies, since the bloody Spear and the the man bearing it before Percival (in the original Percival stories to be adopted into the Arthur mythology, not the original Parsifal) were from Jesus’ homeland. Which should tell you something…other than that I do too much reading, anyway.

    If you want a more reasonable-sized Bible with original-language excerpts and examinations, look for a Hebrew-Greek study Bible; they’re much cheaper than the several hundred for the scholarly verion–like $30-$50–and go into terms with dubious translations and the precise meaning they bore in the (semi-) original languages.

    …and, probably you don’t care, sorry.

  36. 0
    OtakuMan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    You are right that she is nothing like Miami Jack (which sounds like a great tropical flavor from Bacardi!).

    The fact that she won’t budge on her opinion, okay. However, I think she owes the gaming populace an apology for going on National Television and MAKING IT UP AS SHE GOES how the research they present her with correlates to a definite proof. Plopping down the results of a study and forming an opinion on them in 5 minutes DOES NOT CUT IT in the scientific field. Furthermore, if she had not obtained that data herself through tests she herself had ran, and she had not read the results and white papers produced by the people who DID perform the study…

    …then what RIGHT does she have to even PRETEND that she knew what she was talking about?

    I will not ask her to change her opinion, but seeing as she admitted to not really knowing what she was talking about as far as the data and the correlation to what she was TRYING to prove…

    …I want an apology.

    I want her to ADMIT, here on GamePolitics, that she was wrong, that she did a dis-service to the gaming community by effectively LYING about the data, and that she is ASHAMED for sullying her professional career as a SCIENTIST by not acknowledging her familiarity with certain materials.

    @Jack Thompson

    As though you are one to talk about science! With all your unabashed preachings of how you are fighting a “Holy Crusade” on the game industry and your devotion to the Lord…

    …how DARE you act as though you know science like the palm of your hand!

    You act as though science and law are the same!


    1) Scientists do not manipulate data to fit their hypotheses
    2) Scientists who are not familiar with data should not be forming conclusions
    3) Conclusions brought by some scientists can always be countered by other scientists!

    As can be seen here:

    Quit trying to pretend you are a scientist you ignorant prat!


    P.S. This is an abuse of science that I can not tolerate!

  37. 0
    JustChris says:

    Pandralisk, you gotta assume that people are idiots, right? Well that’s how programmers think and they make their programs as idiot proof as you can. So maybe the Church should probably distribute patches for their Bible whenever someone stumbles upon passage they can exploit for their own personal gain. Rid the Bible of its “bugs”.


  38. 0
    FD says:

    ??? kids are not going to be bumping into alien monsters in the street, and if they are, maybe they should be prepared to shoot them. Hahaha.

    I love how a crowd will clap at anything. I’m sure watching a movie will get the same brain activity, those game studies are so biased, but the people in the crowd have no clue on the details of the study, so they clap anyways.

  39. 0
    DCOW ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    like it has already been said, numbers is a book of laws, deut is a sermon. and revelation is about the endgame

    try reading acts, matthew, john, ephesians, or even titus.

    using either old testament books or the only new testament book that talks about the future, is once again, SKEWING THE VIEW OF the religion.

  40. 0
    jccalhoun graduate student ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “Brain scan studies at Harvard, Michigan State, and Indiana University all prove the same thing–that violent images are processed in a different part of the brain in teens than adults.”

    And countless brain studies have shown that speech is processed in different parts of the brain by men and women. And that people who recover from serious strokes often use the brain different.

    So does that mean that women (or men) and stroke victims are all going to go crazy and shoot up schools?

  41. 0
    bayushisan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    That’s just it Pandralisk. SHE didn’t do the research, she was commenting on the research of others after only a cursory glance.

    Its also kind of hard for you to try and take the moral high ground about the turn the thread took when it was you who derailed it in the first place.

  42. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    @ DCOW

    …or endorsed by the God and explicitly contained in the religious text. I think the entire books of numbers, deut, and revelations amount to little more than a divine list of God raping, pillaging, threatening, and destroying just about everything in sight.

    Contradictions, anyone? Mmmm… delicious superstition. I’m done with this thread by the way. We’ve focused on one topic so much that we’ve ignored the other side of the coin: the crazy research this woman has done.

  43. 0
    DCOW ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    just because people raped and commited genocide in the name of the lord, does not mean that the religion is responsible. Nor does it mean that the religion condones such acts. Using a religion as an excuse for a war or genocide or whatever pain, is just a crutch used by cowards.

    I could go on a rampage in the name of buddhism and massacre a country, but does that mean buddhism is responsible? no, quite the opposite.

    don’t get religion, and abuse of religion confused, which you obviously have done.

  44. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    I suggest that those who respect my thoughts and their relevancy to the topic request that those who are intolerant of my fair and honest critcism kindly stop trying to strip me of my privledge to post here.

    Enforcing religious norms and raping people of their liberty and autonomy is one of the chief, if not the sole, motivating factors behind most critics of this industry. Religion is being used, as it has been in ages countless past, to strip away the rights of people to freely use their minds and practice moral autonomy. This is why I bring it up on topics where religious motivation is what causes a certain group of people to act the way they do.

    I am sorry if the truth so hurts you, =(. And please remember, 90% of Christian sects believe that Jesus is metaphysically linked to God (one in the same). And I would also like to remind Christians that they should not ignore the OT: refer to the book of Mark, in paticular. Even for those who do not believe in the link, Jesus was not an apologist for God. Even Jesus could not contextualize, acknowledge, or repair the genocidal, child killing, actions of a terrible creature of fiction.

    But, again, I am being too kind by not shifting my critique to a metaphysical level [aka, your beliefs are unjustified, epistomologically incoherent and contradictory (it makes no sense for you to not follow the Bible completely and literally; someone should not be able to possess enough knowledge of the divine to selectively cherry-pick throught he text), and should not be formulated — despite any content you might reference — in the first place].

  45. 0
    hayabusa75 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Guys and dolls, Dr. Bartell made a mistake in presenting a professional opinion based on that brain scan, but it was an understandable one. In a sense, she was ambushed and made the best of the situation. Who of us can honestly say that under the same conditions we wouldn’t have done the same thing?

    Dennis is right, this story provides a revealing glimpse into what really goes on behind the scenes, and why we should be cautiously skeptical of taking things at face value, especially on overblown talk shows. If anyone wants to see the e-mail exchange between her and I, give me an address and I’ll forward it to you.


    Thank you for derailing yet another thread.

  46. 0
    Coravin ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Jabrwock

    Jack’s not exactly capable of comprehending the mutually incompatible status of several of his brighter statements, but as far as I can tell, the more recent statement–while sheer bs–is closer.

    Children’s brains fire up over wider-spread areas in almost any learning situation, which includes videogames’ early stages. But even in other situations, scans suggest that brains not yet specialized show the same wide-spread bloodflow increases. Children’s brains lack the pruning-down to the most-used paths that comes through experience to give adults brains that do work in a more focused and efficient manner, but are more set in their ways (neuron pathways and association both).

    I presume Jack’s earlier statement was based on his utter ignorance in regards to the field of neuroscience as well as all other knowledge fields, and can therefore only assume he took the results of imaging showing the totality of brain bloodflow at normal levels versus at brain-damaged levels, the latter looking remarkably like the picture on the left in that Fox spot–because that picture showed not total bloodflow, but only levels of blodflow increased during a specific activity. Literacy could have kept JT from making THAT mistake.

    @ Derek

    I read a LOT of scientific journals, magazines, and other publications, and it just so happens that a bunch of recent studies delve deeply into brain activity (increased bloodflow) in various locations. The easy answer is that I’m extrapolating based on the precise shape and location of the “violent videogame player” image, which correlates exactly with the part of the brain that controls spatial awareness and learning.

    The longer answer is that the “nonviolent videogame player” image is exceedingly similar to non-language/non-spatial learning, and even more similar to background/scene perception, but without knowing the exact game, it’s hard to be sure what is causing that and what it means. The “violent” image is NOT in the “emotion” part of the brain OR the “inhibition” parts of the brain (both of which are theories thrown out there by certain anti-videogame people), nor even in the “pleasure/reward” part of the brain, although it’s at least near that last.

    Chances are, during gameplay the reward part would fire whenever a gamer succeeded, but after gameplay the parts that actually fired up as a requirement to play (spatial awareness and other aspects of conceptual learning) will reignite as they always do when remembering or encoding into memory the activity just performed. The spatial learning center is a generalization, as that part of the brain covers a great deal of very specific tasks such as facial awareness, something else highly likely to occur in a violent game (facing human or other characters with faces) and not likely in most of the casual nonviolent games.

    I can hand you nothing that proves my point, but I at least know people in the medical field, and someone who actually interprets such images as a living (fMRI assistant, I think) laughed off those scans as inconclusive of anything…literally, laughing so hard I got nothing more for awhile after explaining what was pointed out to be the utter impossibility of “negative brain activity”. While certain brain scans can show reduced activity (bloodflow) in particular brain areas, the image shown on Fox isn’t that type, nor is it possible to make a value judgment on what somebody is lerning–it can only be determined what TYPE of learning is taking place (basically left/right with several subcategories), not its QUALITY or MORALITY.

    Although the expert wouldn’t speculate without real images and scans from prior to the activities and during control activities including rest–fancy that, professionalism and responsibility–they agreed that what I’d picked out of the journals was a reasonable interpretation and at least the right brain areas. Although apparently with only that one viewing angle you can conclude zippo for certain, and even the myriad pictures they would use for evaluation are manipulated into a comprehensible image by computers before they can be made sense of by people. Then they’re colored for publication in journals and such, which usually includes some editing for clarification or contrast, hence the need for original images.

    Of course, every single brain is unique in its specific pattern of bloodflow (which is why every study of any value presents a composite image of numerous people subjected to the stimulus, averaging these to reveal the “general” regions activated by the activities). So without more details, and controls of the subject in various other activities as well as numerous other individuals going through the same tests, there’s not much the professionals could tell me save “that looks about right”.

  47. 0
    Tammej says:

    Cut her some slack, and let’s see if she does something like this again. Hope she realises at some point (if she hasn’t already) that it is somewhat pointless to talk about how bad violent videogames are for kids – and then blaming the games. They are not supposed to be bought by kids, sold to kids, given to kids, played by kids.

    The whole jibberjabber about kids suffering because of these games is like saying that your walkman died on you because you put in the wrong type of batteries, so it’s the battries that deserve the blame.

    Kids will be kids, they’ll want what’s forbidden, it’s always been that way. But that still doesn’t make the games bad. It’s the people that give the kids access games they’re simply too young to play.

  48. 0
    VenomandCarnage ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I would also like to point out one other thing. Need I point out to you that Christians follow they word of CHRIST who is in the New Testament rather than the Old Testament, where you are probably getting most of your information.

  49. 0
    VenomandCarnage ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Since Pandralisk is insisting on repeated posting of his intolerant and flat-out insulting bullshit, I say we make a call to ban him from the servers. I mean come on, how many times has he broken the rules around here? I lost count. Who’s with me?

  50. 0
    VenomandCarnage ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m going to prove once and for all that God is not a monster through one simple observation, the fact that Pandralisk is still alive. Since God is such an evil murderer, what’s one more life to the pile gonna matter?

  51. 0
    Chalts ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I’m going to make “Proud worshiper of a genocidal, child-killing monster” my new signature at some forum in honor of Pandralisk’s monumental wisdom and tolerance.

  52. 0
    Phoenix, Filmmaker says:

    I would respond to you Pandralisk, but quite frankly, I’m just going to let you preach your hate somewhere else, something you have said about another certain religion. Besides, I believe that Mad_Scientist has all the bases covered and I find it interesting that you have failed to respond to him. When reading the bible, you have to consider the historical context as well…remember, He did have to deal with a bunch of primitive desert wanderers who bathed in the same water as the pigs…ew…anyways. It’s like the smartest man in the world having to babysit the dumbest baby in the world, He had to give humans rules that they could understand at the time. Anyways…I’m too tired to think of an intelligent argument anyways, besides, I’m labeled as a Christian Agnostic Theist, so on principle I don’t give a flying shit one way or the other. How about you just respond to Mad_Scientist once your done with your research, only use an open mind this time…*yawn*

    ….oh, and when your done…suck my balls, since you obviously have a big enough mouth for that monumental task.

  53. 0
    Majestic_12_x ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Is this really the place to discuss the merits of religion? What exactly is going on here? Just because people who call themselves “Christians” believe that the First Amendment should be trampled on doesn’t mean that all Christians share the same belief. Take this discussion elsewhere because it has very little to do with the specific and general topic at hand.

  54. 0
    Baggie ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Okay, I’d like to see some quotes. I see where you’re coming from, and I respect that. However I’d like to see some quotes so you’re not being misdirected by metaphors or something as such. (BTW which version of the bible are you getting this from?)

    Also, you have to keep in mind that by our (Christians, as is referred to the rest of this post) beliefs god is the righteous power, and, having created us, has control. He can choose what happens to us, and he has, yes, made murder on people that have turned away from him. He has threatened, and done things that would be unacceptable by a human. Which is okay with us because he’s god, he knows what’s best. However more recently our god told us to love thy neighbor and love god, he loves us and also to obey the law when it doesn’t go against us and such. And we obeyed, cause he’s the person who created us, we should respect him. Our intentions should be to follow good, however good is what god has decided is good. You also have to consider that we don’t actually know what he accomplished by doing these various acts. It’s kind of like the trouser legs of time, if he did do x then would y have happened and would z have been necessary?

    I agree with you thought that disproving a higher power is impossible, by very definition, however proving is easy when the higher power comes in and does things. Also I don’t like you calling my god names, it offends me. And I never said I you called me evil, I said you called my belief system evil, which again offends me. When you argue against censorship and such, surely you can understand that.

  55. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    Well assuming you believe in the Bible, I’m sorry if you do, BY ANALYTIC DEFINITION, worship a genocidal, child killing, monster. I am not calling you evil. I am calling your dark God of murder, rape, and hate evil. Please note the distionction. Even Christians who are beyond hope can still acknowledge that the murder of a child and systematic elmination of an ethnic groups are universally evil acts. I am sorry your god is such a vindictive, petty, and terrible monster. I hope you at least acknowlede this fact, and look humbly on your own religious convictions and moral authority. But you seem wise enough, zealous religious fanatics are the people who really need to consider my message.

    On a more personal note, I’m sorry, but no superstitious object of fiction has given me, or anyone else, anything. Please provide evidence for your beliefs if you claim someone gave me something, thanks.

    Secondly, read your Bible. Note the actions of God. Fairly consider and contextualize those actions. You have already assumed superstition to be true, despite it lacking even a fraction of evidence. So the only thing left is to at least point out the true values, as demonstrated in your holy text, that comprise your religion. And among those values are: genocide, ethnic clensing, torture, threats, fear, intimidation, child murder, etc. Humans do not derive ethical value from the Bible. Social forces instead cause you to interpret the Bible in such a way that it remains relevant to societal norms and contemporary ethical systems. Remember, at certain points of time, rape, murder, religious repression, slavery and countless other horrible acts were interpreted as biblically supported moral virtues.

    Third, I can look at the religion itself, how it is spread, and the values of the religion, and develop a rationalized disgust with it. People cherry pick through religious superstition, terrified by the thought the evil lord of murder will torture them for all eternity if they do not bow in submission, and selectively chose what things they want to believe in. Such an act justifies one of my core claims [that I rarely state here]: people who derive religious knowledge from the Bible, on any level, possess no validity whatsoever unless they believe the ENTIRE text, literally.

    In short, I will continue to posit values about your belief system that are contained within the system itself. I apologize if your god is a genocidal child killer, but you have made a choice to be deluded by a system of metaphysically impossible lies up to a point where you no longer acknowledge fact.

    And for the last time, I am not an atheist. Disproving the idea of a higher power [not the petty, vindictive, self-contradictory monster described in Christian superstition] is just as metaphysically impossible as proving the idea of some type of higher power.

  56. 0
    Baggie ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Firstly, Screw you. I don’t call all atheists assholes and evil in their beliefs, you shouldn’t do it to me. I recognize that some people who share my broad beliefs say bad things about what you believe, and that’s wrong. God’s given you a license to make choice, you should be allowed that.

    Secondly, I don’t see your reasoning that Judo-Christian religions are evil. Even by your views, it restrains us and does nothing else, but maybe that’s a good thing. Because human beings are idiots and we need some sort of moral boundaries otherwise we’d have never have gone very far.

    Thirdly, you can’t base a belief hate on a single or two persons. I know some Christians I don’t like, I have plenty atheist friends. I believe that Gay people were made by god as they were meant to be, and I believe in choice of what people view, I believe that god COULD have made people by evolution. I don’t like manhunt, I think it’s actually kind of disgusting, but if people play it I think that’s okay. Cause it ain’t me playing it, and if it doesn’t cause any problems it’s fine by me.

    In short, please stop insulting my beliefs based on other people. As I said before, people are idiots, and the likely hood is that people that are atheists have done some bad things e.g. killed people. That doesn’t make you all evil. Same applies to Christians, we aren’t all freedom oppressing assholes. So please apply some common knowledge here.

  57. 0
    kurisu7885 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Then explain this. The religion has been aroudn for literally thousands of years, why hasn’t this happened already? Hmm? How did science ever progress in the face of religious opposition? How did art make it to the public that some had problems with? How come we aren’t still in europe living in castles being beaten for believing any differently? How did witch burnings stop?

    By your logic, all this should have come to pass.

  58. 0
    chris says:


    Heres a simple fact I’d like you to grasp before you go on another religion rant.

    Some people are just assholes, simple as that.

    These people will take a position as their own and consider it the right one and try and force everyone else to conform to their viewpoint.

    This is not exclusive to religion… that?

    Take yourself, you sit there ranting and saying how god isficticious and that you should attack religion to get your way, showing nothing of the reconciliation you claim to hold. youre being an asshole and it sure doesnt look like your religious.

    geddit? There will always be assholes that try and make things the way they want without concern for other people, regardless of religion, race or creed.

  59. 0

    You said: “I wonder if this lady understands that the difference in those scans is very similar to the difference in scans of people who have just finished a mental learning task and a physical learning task? Would she be equally horrified to learn that there was a difference in the brains of people who have just played Scrabble and those who have just played football?”

    Can you show me where you found that? It is very enlightening. 😀

  60. 0
    sabin_blitz ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    It doesn’t. This is just what happens with the vast majority of Pandralisk’s posts. He posts anti-Christian sentiments like this and then it just snowballs into something ugly without fail. Case in point, this discussion.

  61. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Brain scan studies at Harvard, Michigan State, and Indiana University all prove the same thing–that violent images are processed in a different part of the brain in teens than adults.

    Wait what? Since when? The only studies you’ve been touting as of late (oddly enough, the same damn studies) you claim showed that violent images caused reduced activity in the same areas as teens with brain damage.

    So which is it? Make up your mind!

  62. 0
    Monte ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Y’know, When you point out that you hate it when the the religous try to force their morals on us and are trying to take away are freedoms and all that jazz, i’m reminded of a political cartoon i once read,

    So… are the political poeple who try to force their morals on us, religous politicans doing what they think is right in the name of God, or are they non-relgious politicans that just us the name of lord as a method to get religous poeple on their side, exploiting relgion for political gain? Ya, i know, it’s probably not that black and white and much more gray, but i don’t feel like thinking of all the possibilities and poeple should get my point and it should make some poeple think about religion and it’s relation to politics; especially those you realize the world isn’t black and white.

    I mean really, from watching all this game legistlation and what-not, we know damn well that the fastest way to get the average American on your side is to scream “save the children” and to pander to certain morals(especially the ones supported by the religous); wheather or not you actually believe in said morals. their are plenty of politicans who just exploit what poeple want just to gain the vote of those poeple, it’s pretty much the greatest driving force of these legislations. And for those that actually do believe in those morals, one must remember that one does not at all need to be raised in a religous home to have those morals. People what to protect their children and they want them to live good lives, anykind of morals that support that way of thinking can be believed by a person; and it doesn’t take a religoous person to take those “good” morals to extremes like wanted to keep poeple away from violent media, nor force those morals onto others.

    in short, the religous are NOT the only ones with those morals and beliefs… as it’s been said time and time again, Christians and Athetists are on BOTH sides of the video game issue! (and no, the christians that are on the gaming side are not all just ignorant)

    one major reason i though i’d bring this up, is because your reasoning for turning this thread into a religous issue seem to stem from the idea that the religous are the ones trying to force these moral beliefs on us, and yet the article was about Dr. Bartell and her take on the issue and she DID NOT ONCE mention religion, god, or ANY of that in justiying her stance… it’s a simple matter of her wanting to keep kids and teens safe… nothing says she says this as an extension of religous belief or any of that… wheather she is indeed relgious or not, her views would proabbly be more or less the same

  63. 0
    Coravin ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I wonder if this lady understands that the difference in those scans is very similar to the difference in scans of people who have just finished a mental learning task and a physical learning task? Would she be equally horrified to learn that there was a difference in the brains of people who have just played Scrabble and those who have just played football?

    Not in my family, of course–despite all the “adults” having grown up without videogames, they make every boardgame or card game violent, down to blatant cheating and switch-knives, though I don’t recall seeing any blood shed yet. Anyway, on to Jack’s ignorance.

    What kind of idiot gets upset and scared when they see that children’s brains react differently to videogame play than adults’ brain? Children’s brain react to EVERYTHING differentlt than adult brains. They don’t contain the same prefrontal cortex development and specialized gray matter as adults until their mid/late twenties, which means that thought processes which fire up a few places in adult brains will inevitably fire up more in children, which is EXACTLY WHAT THE STUDIES SHOW, you moron.

  64. 0
    Korax ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I know it’s off topic, but there’s a lot of truth in what Pandralisk just said. Religious fundamentalists do not want to reconcile with anything, and it goes way beyond video-game laws. See controversies like stem cells, abortion, HPV vaccines, condoms, gay marriage, you name it.

  65. 0

    I find it abhorrent that a so-called “professional” could stoop to such behavior. Congratulations are in order for exposing it. If she really isn’t an expert, she could merely state its her “opinion”. She doesn’t need to pretend like she knows what she is talking about and make video games look worse in the media than they already are.

  66. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    For the last time, one enormous fact distinguishes me from religious fundamentalists:

    1. While I believe Judeo Christian religious beliefs to be intrinsically evil and superstitious, I WANT to reconcile this fact [aka, leave them to freely preach and practice their hate] with the religious under the condition that they leave society alone. No more censorship laws. No more obscenity laws derived from Judeo-Christian vales. No more game legislation, etc. I want true individual liberty so a person can do what they want: be it worshipping a genocidal, child-killing, “god,” OR enjoying an incredibly violent and sexually explicit video game. We should be free to choose what we believe is good.

    Religious fundamentalists do NOT want to reconcile freedom and moral autonomy. They do not want freedom. They will use every tool at their disposal to rape us of our rights to freely enjoy content. Therefore, I often feel that the only way to combat them is to directly critique the lies that support their absurd and ridiculous positions.


    WRONG. I can’t tell you the number of ethical and religious systems that see nothing wrong with fictional depictions of violence and sex. JT and many other critics are CLEARLY movtivated by their fanatical desire to oppress freedom and enforce Christian norms. JT, himself, has acknowleded this fact.

    Religious fundamentalists do NOT want to reconcile

  67. 0
    kurisu7885 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Do you realize that if you replaced the word atheist, bhuddist, pagan, whatever whenever you made a post like that, you’d sound exactly like them, and you do.

    I happen to have a belief that is steadily going toward paganism. Is the religion I may chose guilty by association, for being a religion?

    Guilty until proven innocent doesn’t work, PERDIOD,.

  68. 0
    Sean ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    true, but at what point does objectivity become bigotry? My comparison to JT comes from the fact that some of what JT does is funny, what Pandralisk does is nothing of the sort.

  69. 0
    Coravin ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    It IS off-topic; it wouldn’t matter WHAT people like Jack believed, they would still push the same agendas, and hence bringing up religion repeatedly, hatefully, and pointlessly gets called bashing. This is not because we’re all “teh Christianses censoring” you, it is because you are being off-topic–ranting about “evil religion” much as the ignorant political sorts rant about “evil videogames”, as if these are the cause for the idiotic actions for a few people who are just naturally crazy.

  70. 0
    SounDemon says:


    Pandralisk may attach “Bronze Age Genocidal War” as a suffix whenever he speaks of God, but he isn’t a media attention whoring, massacre chasing sociopathic anus like JT is.

    I agree with him about indoctrinating children with religion at a young age, since I had the VERY SAME experience and it nearly ruined my teenage years. I also agree with him that religion should not be a motivating factor in legislation in any circumstance.

    However, I do NOT condone his way of expressing this view, which primarily consists of making his posts consist of one half on topic, one half Christian Rant.

    Pandralisk, your criticism is honest, but it isn’t fair, since you don’t like to keep on topic; you like to devolve your posts into the textual equivalent of a monkey throwing poop. Your dislike of Christianity is noted, and if you express it in every response AND post, I shall have to invoke Thompson’s Law, which states: “Any who repeat the same information for more than a year, argue against a topic not neccesarily related to the subject on a regular basis, or engage in unjustified Ad Hominem shall be stripped of their credibility.”
    Or in more simple terms: “Your posts must be on topic, untainted by hatred, and untainted by gay porn.”

    And Sean, even though Pandralisk can be an anus when expressing his views, it takes all kinds to make an objective community; just not the kind that chase massacres.

  71. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I think this may be my final post to you Pandralisk, as I don’t think I will reach you very well, regardless of what I type. I had hoped to at least encourage some civility from you, but the hatred you have for Judeo-Christian theology is apparently too great. Though I suppose “I’ll tell you what, I’ll try to stop positing true value judgments on the hateful myth that is Christian theology…” is something of a concession coming from you.

    I suppose I really should be thankful to you in a way, though. You hate comparisions to Jack Thompson, but the fact is, you’ve served as a nice counterpoint to him. Before you, many times on these boards I’d see people make what I thought to be fairly ignorant comments on Christianity and unfair generalizations about Christians. But now, your comments are so extreme that even some atheists who dislike religion in general are growing unhappy with you and starting to DEFEND Christians. You’ve served as a good reminder that ignorance and hatred can apply to atheists as well as religious people. You may not like that fact, but that’s the way many people here perceive you: as hateful and ignorant.

    But since you are annoying so many people here, I will make a different argument to you. Your posts aren’t working. Even people who agree with you on some points don’t like the way you present yourself. Surely you must realize that. I believe there is a famous quote that basically says that one of the best ways to hurt a viewpoint is to have someone make a bad argument in favor of it. And that is essentially what you are doing. Your posts on religion are just making people give Christians MORE of a benifit of a doubt while painting athiests in a bad light. I doubt that’s what you want. Since you are doing the opposite of what you intend, those no point for you to continue in such a manner.

  72. 0
    Sean ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Pandralisk says:

    “I am sick of watching my honest and fair critcism of the chief motivating factor of those who seek to rape our freedom and right to play games [religion] be considered as off topic. I am tired of religiously indoctrinated, excessively sensitive, posters on this site denying the evil nature of their God, as it is clearly described in their religious texts. I am tired of giving a “subjectivity” pass to religious fanatics who actively hunt our freedoms, and offering them the benefit of the doubt”

    Then leave, because quite frankly, you’re even less welcome here than JT (at least he contributes…Sorta).

  73. 0
    Erik says:

    I see that Pandralisk still thinks that this is a religious issue. Its sad really.

    But the last line “Their attacks on us” is really telling of his black and white view of the world. In his world all Christians seek to deny freedom. No atheists seek to deny freedom. Everyone who is against video games is a Christian and everyone who plays them is an atheist.

    Pandralicks, a little things to blow your mind: Some video game makers are Christians. When you wake up and see that there are people from all walks of life on both sides of the issue, only then can your mind open.

    Until then your remarks come off little better than the racist: “Black people are all criminals.”

  74. 0
    VenomandCarnage ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    fair criticism my ass! How is calling all christians bible thumpers and freedom hating rapists fair? You have no proof what so ever to back up any of your outrageous claims. Not all christians are as evil as you want to believe they are whether you like it or not. I’m a christian, I don’t hate freedom, I embrace it. I don’t seek to legislate, I wish to leave it be. I’m no fan of censorship, I appose it. I never shove my religion down other people’s throats, I find that it doesn’t get the point accross. Why is it off topic? Because there is absolutely no mention of christianity anywhere in that article or 99% of the other articles you feel a need to fill with your intolerant bullshit. It would not surprise me that you post this shit solely to piss people off so you can talk about your agenda more. You want to talk about this crap so bad? How about you take it to people who actually want to listen to it, because as far as I see it, what you are doing is nothing short of hypocracy. You claim that christians are hateful people who shove their beliefs down people’s throats, and what are you doing? Shoving your beliefs(of which you have few supporters here) down all of our throats with hateful speeches against christians.

  75. 0
    Korax ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @jack thompson

    And what do YOU know about science? Your distortion of data and misuse of studies are a mockery and disrespect to a community which I and many others hold in great respect and I’m working hard to be a part of it. The scientific community has a system that works very well to avoid fake studies from spreading false data, and so the articles you mention so much should conclude ALWAYS that the data they gathered is INCONCLUSIVE in creating a correlation and/or causation between playing violent games and increased aggression/violence. Scientific data can’t be sensationalized, because it’s quickly torn apart by the community itself. And your arguments, as always, don’t hold water in court because the judges, in order to be unbiased, must ask for the opinion of one or more specialists in the scientific area, people who know what they’re looking at and talking about. Certainly they wouldn’t ask it from a hack lawyer who’s drawing the conclusion he want’s to have. Learn what is a theory, a hypotesis, a fact, and a conclusion and you may one day talk about science. Though I doubt it would happen in my lifetime.

  76. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    I have every right to point out cotradictions in thought and the evil nature of Judeo Christian religions when someone uses the religion as a moral grounds to strike down my rights. I am tired of the fact that some people think religion is immune to critcism: like any other form of superstition, it should be critiqued and acknowledged. I am too the arguments of most Christians. I entertain their dogmatic, ridiculous, supernatural claims to illustrate contradictions. I posit value judgments only on the superstitious figures that they claim to understand and worship.

    If I wanted to strive for truth, I should simply denounce their ridiculous, backwards, metaphysically impossible beliefs and any type of moral principles you derive from such trash. But, I offer them the benefit of the doubt. I’ll tell you what, I’ll try to stop positing true value judgments on the hateful myth that is Christian theology. Those who truly need to learn about the genocidal, child-killing, entity they claim to worship are already impervious to morality, free thought, and fair critique.

    I am sick of watching my honest and fair critcism of the chief motivating factor of those who seek to rape our freedom and right to play games [religion] be considered as off topic. I am tired of religiously indoctrinated, excessively sensitive, posters on this site denying the evil nature of their God, as it is clearly described in their religious texts. I am tired of giving a “subjectivity” pass to religious fanatics who actively hunt our freedoms, and offering them the benefit of the doubt. Their beliefs are superstitious, invalid, and have no bearing on anyone intellegent enough to acknowledge them as a hateful pile of lies.

    As I’ve said before, I strike at the heart of the beast. So many of you seem content at clumsily flailing at the tentecles when they rise from the depths of supersition to rape your freedom. Wake up.

    These people will not stop until they shove their superstition down our throats: they don’t want mutual respect, moral autonomy, and individual liberty. This is why I strike at the evil, hateful, lies that motivate their attacks on us.

  77. 0
    MR.B says:

    The show that John Bruce will be appearing on is called “Cashin’ In”.Here’s the real question,why is he appearing on a personal finance show?It just does not make any sense.The host of the show is Terry Keenan.Heres the show’s contact info.

    Email “Cashin’ In” at ;

    Or you can call 1-888-369-4762 (general Fox News contact phone number)
    Feel free to ask any sort of video game questions that you have :)

  78. 0
    GryphonOsiris ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    “Brain scan studies at Harvard, Michigan State, and Indiana University all prove the same thing–that violent images are processed in a different part of the brain in teens than adults. The Supreme Court decision in Roper v. Simmons in March 2005 says the very same thing!”

    But they have no conclusive evidence about what said images do. Case in point, a teenager plays an hour of football, after said hour does he go tackling every individual he sees? After all, it is a violent sport where players clash at one another like charging rams, and has a high number of injuries related to it. Or, better example, teenager takes part in a wrestling tourney for an afternoon, is his first thought when he is done to put the first stranger he sees into a submission hold? This is an even better example, because wrestling IS derived from a form of combat. Last example, teenager takes fencing lessons (i.e. the Olympic sport) for 2 hours twice a week, does he start stabbing people at random with a foil or rapier?

    Riddle me that, ‘Batman’.

  79. 0
    DCOW ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    using specific instances in the bible to generalize the entire religion IS religion bashing.

    using the book of exodus (i.e. the plagues) as an example of what god is really like is once again, religion bashing. because the bible also says, in the new testament, to always love everyone, even the person that hates you, even your enemy.

    now is that the same “genocidal” god pandralisk talks about? yes it is.

    read the new testament pandralisk. and stop using only the old testament as an example.

  80. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    One other thing regarding your posts here. You say that you are trying to point out a contradiction to people who want to ban video games with certain themes and images because they don’t like them/believe they are harmful, when there are things those very people consider perfectly fine that others would try to ban because they believe they contain certain themes and images that they think are bad or harmful. Such as the Bible. And the odd thing is, I agree with you there. It’s one of the reasons why I am always hesitant and concerned about anything that bans or restricts a form of speech just because of the ideas expressed within it. I’m just waiting for the day when some country that bans “hate speech” bans the Old Testament because of comments about homosexuality in it.

    But you seem to either express your arguement poorly, or you perhaps are really more interested in annoying religious people then you are in expressing that arguement. It wouldn’t be that hard to change your posts to make that point clearer.

    “I believe the Bible to be more harmful than any violent video game, as it depicts what I find to be a violent, petty, child-killing ‘god’ that is quite horrible. So, if video games can be banned or at least banned to minors because someone finds them to be ‘harmful’, why can’t we get the Bible banned to minors because I and some other people find it far more harmful? Perhaps ‘christains’ like Jack Thompson and his ilk should really think about what the precedent they’d set would be if they actually succeeded in one of these laws. Because if they take away what I like simply because they don’t, I’ll be sure to return the favor and use the legal principles THEY established to get what they like taken away.”

    The above would have still riled some people, but I think many would leave you alone, and I at least would probably defend your views, although I’d still disagree with your views on God. But you really come off like someone who just hates religion and wants to use these stories as an excuse to vent, rather than someone trying to make a legitmate point about the dangers of allowing speech to be banned or restricted.

  81. 0
    F**ked Up says:

    @The retarded idiot Jack Thompson who is NOT a Psychologist, Neurologist’s, or any type of specialist on the brain.

    So even if violent images are process differently in the brain from teenagers to adults what does that mean? No brain scan or any brain study has been able to predict behaviors of humans. If they were Economist would love to get their hands on that data.

    All Brain Scan studies have shown is where parts of the brain is activated and specific Patterns associated to different illness such alzheimer’s or those who have brain damage. IT DOES NOT PREDICT HUMAN BEHAVIOR.

    PS. I just recently got involved with an MRI lab that does brain scans so I may have more information in the future.

  82. 0
    mybad4990 says:

    Jack, where is this so called “science” that shows that violent entertainment can do harm. SHOW ME. I’m calling you out right now. Show me for once instead of spouting wild claims with absolutely no evidence to back them up. But knowing you Jack, you’ll either:

    A. Tuck your tail between your legs like a girly man and not respond to or address my post at all.


    B.Make up evidence or cite studies that have long since been discredited.

    We’re waiting.

  83. 0

    @Pandralisk: Only going to say this once — it is people like you which makes me less and less motivated to post/comment on GP, or in the forums. You are horribly misrepresenting and over-generalizing religions, lumping all religions together with gross over-exaggerations and stereotyping, to push whatever agenda you seem to have against them. If you had bothered to read the Bible you so strongly object to, you’d find that your own arguments against it are baseless. But then again, your arguments are so vehemently against the Bible, and by proxy, Christianity, and all other Religions in general, that leaves me to believe that you once were Christian, and were hurt by someone who professed some kind of Christian belief, which is a shame.

    Now please, can you take the religion bashing/attacks out of these posts? You do seem to make incredible strides to make sure everyone knows you dislike religions, we all get that now, can you please move on from it? Maybe let go for once, and talk about whatever the topic was at hand, rather than…. “Jack Thompsonize” a discussion with irrelevant statements?

  84. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Ok, for those who don’t want to read a long post involving rape in the Bible and whether God ever commanded or supported it, please just skip this post, and my apologies for letting this go so off-topic. But since Pandralisk did provide some verses like I asked, I feel I should respond with something.

    I believe you meant to refer to the entire chapter of Judges 21, rather than just verse 10, as that particular verse doesn’t have anything involving rape. There are 2 cases in that chapter which you might be talking about. Interestingly though, it never stated that God sanctioned any of the actions in that chapter. In fact, the chapter ended with “In those days there was no king in Isreal; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.” Since the Bible doesn’t make it clear what God thought about the people’s actions, it’s not a good example, especially compared to some of the other cases you provided. (Getting to those soon.)

    Zech 14.1 was part of a prophesy describing horrible things that were going to happen to Isreal, including rape. It did describe God having a hand in directing all the events that occured, and that leads into the whole question that if God is all-powerful and if all events that occur in this world work towards good and are part of an all-encompasing plan, then does that mean that God is himself responsible for every bad thing that occurs? And that is not a question I really want to get into in this thread. Partially for the sake of other people who don’t feel like reading a huge religious discussion when it’s rather off-topic, and partially because I will admit that it is a very tough question and I am unfortunately not the best person for trying to explain those things to an unbeliever.

    Numbers and Deuteronomy 21 are interesting examples, and both deal with the treatment of captives of war. Both involve the female virgins being spared and “taken as wives”. In Numbers it was Moses talking, but in Deuteronomy it was stated to be part of the law given to Moses by God.

    Deuteronomy 22, I think you must be refering to the case involving the unbetrothed virgin. And once again, this was the Law of Moses, that was said to have been given by God.

    These cases are tough to answer, I’ll give you that. In these cases, God seemed to allow rape/forced marriage, at the very least, and while there is a subtle difference between that and agreeing with it, it’s very subtle.

    What I am going to say is that I believe that in some cases the Law of Moses allowed things that God himself considered horrible. Yet I also believe the Law of Moses was given to him by God. So you would be right to ask both those can be the case. Well, I believe it’s because the Law of Moses was not actually the true Law of God, ie what God really considered purely just and right, but rather the law of a country/tribe in a brutal time, a law that was still given by God though. What’s the difference? Consider the following analogy.

    Imagine that I become a politician and become President of the United States. And imagine that I am given by God in a dream an idea of what the law of the United States should be. And imagine that this truely is a divine revelation, and so that when I reveal it to people, they all see the wisdom behind it. (I know you don’t believe in God and would probably want to impeach any President who claimed to have a divine revelation, but work with me here, and imagine that my ideas on United States law are so good that you don’t really care where I got the idea, you just want the law to be the way I describe.)

    Now, I believe that God abhors adultery, that it is something amoral and not the way God intended sex to be. Yet at the same time, if the above situation were to occur, I do not believe the Law of the United States as given by God would outlaw adultery. Would you find that odd? Would you believe that the fact God didn’t tell me, as President of the United States, that I should outlaw adultery in this country, meant that somehow God considered adultery a perfectly acceptable thing?

    I do not believe that the Law of Moses was the true Law of God. I rather believe it was a system meant to keep a corrupt tribe in a brutal period of history somewhat in check. Compared to many other tribes living at the time, the Isrealites treatment of women was actually much better, I believe. And thus, I do not believe God ever really condoned rape.

    Wow, this response took while to type. I’m still not sure I got my thoughts down properly. Oh well, I’m sadly no debate champ.

  85. 0
    jack thompson, attorney ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Oh, Dennis, for Heaven’s sake. Brain scan studies at Harvard, Michigan State, and Indiana University all prove the same thing–that violent images are processed in a different part of the brain in teens than adults. The Supreme Court decision in Roper v. Simmons in March 2005 says the very same thing!

    Your problem is that when science proves your theory that “violent entertainment can do no harm, you go bonkers. Deal with it, it’s called science.

    Finally, I’m on Fox News at 11:30 am Eastern on Saturday not 11. Tune in, you might learn something, but I doubt it.

    GP: I doubt we’ll hear anything from you that we haven’t heard 100 times before.

  86. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    The one where they were looking for WoW addicts to add soundbites? Did it fall through when no addicts came forward?

    That and WoW addicts are boring. They just sit there. They don’t flip out like druggies, they don’t go through physical “withdrawl”. They’d just have a bunch of soundbytes of concerned relatives… and about 30 seconds of footage of someone sitting at a computer.

  87. 0
    Timmy says:

    Whatever happened to that “WoW addiction and Teens” show CNN was planning? The one where they were looking for WoW addicts to add soundbites? Did it fall through when no addicts came forward?

  88. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Jeremiah 47:4 supposedly specifically mentions God personally laying the smaketh down on Philistines and the people of Caphtor.

    That and he ordered the complete destruction of the people of Canaan.

    “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations…then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.” Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV.

    “…do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them…as the Lord your God has commanded you…” Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV.

  89. 0
    Neeneko says:


    Yes, Old Testmant does include some rather nasty bits like that, including taking young girls and mothers as property after killing all the menfolk. And these were specifically ‘commands from God’

    There was also a nice bit about taking a rape victim, slicing her up, and sending her parts to various groups.

    However, the OT is mostly ignored by modern Christians so using icky bits as examples of ‘why isn’t THIS ok’ doesn’t work all that well.

  90. 0
    Icehawk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ E. Zachary Knight

    Understand you there. This site is… distracting even from such frivilous things are work.

    To swing back on subject. Do any here think there is a snowballs chance surviving in a blast furnace that Dr. Bartell will actually apoligize publically?

    Rather doubt it myself as it would lower her value as an “expert” on various talk shows. And as much as we dislike it the bills do need to be paid. On the upside though it would seem she actually has a clearer understanding and “might” not get on more of said shows to sling BS around about things that she knows nothing about.

  91. 0
    Pierre-Olivier ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @E. Zachary Knight
    Very good resume. I don’t have access to a full bible (only the new testament, much more reasonable to today’s standards in my opinion) but it creates quite a few arguments, showing that the Christian religion did not promote killing and genocide. A lot of murders were made in the name of God, but those murders were made by MENS. Mens who interpreted the bible as a tool to archeive their goals (reminds me of someone we knows). Churches represents God, but the Church is not God.


    You could have simply said that you don’t agree with the Christian religion instead of making hate speech. Like you, I hate peoples who hide behind their bibles to justify unacceptable acts (Fred Phelps comes to my mind) but that doesn’t give you the right to brand the religion as hate propaganda and brand christians as “superstisious and ridiculous”. You sound EXACTLY like Thompson who brands video games as violence propagenda and gamers as stupid an addicted.

    Returning to topic now

    I agree that was a bit unprofessionnal from Mrs. Bartell to try to explain something she don’t know about, but I accept the apology. Everyone wants to archieve great goals one day. Call me too soft or too forgiving, but the fact that she did admit her mistake and accepted to tell it makes her much more reasonable than Jackie T. If she spends some time to study this topic more seriously, she could have a completely different position from now. Even then, it shows that she’s willing to listen instead of someone we know.

  92. 0
    Jer ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ pandralisk
    Which version of the bible are you reading? New American, New Jersulam? Each publisher words it slightly differently, and some other Christian denominations has removed certain books of the bible.

    Just want to get on the same base as you.

  93. 0
    Dog_Welder ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @Mad_Scientist — I don’t have a Bible handy, but there are parts of the Old Testament where tribes of “unbelievers” were wiped out at the command of God. This would include women and children. And I want to say that there were instances where women were taken as concubines, but my memory is a bit hazy on this (and these generally aren’t the passages that get brought up in Sunday School). The books Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings would be the places to look for this, if it’s in there at all it will be during the times of conquest.

  94. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:


    Fine, that’s up to you. Not my view of course, but it’s also no right of mine to attempt to change that.

    By the way, have you ever thought about updating your website?

  95. 0
    E. Zachary Knight ( User Karma: 2 ) says:

    @ BlackIce

    I beleive that the Bible is the word of God as long as it is translated correctly. For the most part, the book was written by people who spoke directly with God as his messengers. There have been stuff neglected, changed and deleted throughout time and Constantine’s efforts were part of it.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  96. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Well, this was related to the Halo 3 in churches story Fox News ran. But mostly we got on the topic because of posts by Pandralisk and people (including me) responding to him.

    I’ll check out those verses now.

  97. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    In response to paragraph one: of course I do not believe such a creature exists. People are fundamentally unable to understand supernatural claims. For the sake of argument, I assume that their beliefs are NATURALLY TRUE, and THEN posit values on the diety using the religion’s holy text as my primary source. I do this to point out a contradiction: how can people who worship a genocidal, child-killing, entity take away the rights of people to enjoy fictional media?

    Para 3, not all people are brainwashed. Some are simply ignorant, or refuse to acknowledge, the negative aspects of their religion.

    Para 4, I realize that trying to get these religious nutcases to respect a right to moral autonomy and individual liberty is pointless. They will not listen. They care nothing for freedom. I find that pointing out explicit, and terrible, aspects of their religious tradition — in hopes of generating a contradiction and censoring their practice of beliefs — will somehow allow them to realize why liberty is such a great thing.

    Para 5: Pick up your Bibles: Examples of God-Sanctioned Rape: Judges, 21:10. Numbers 31: 7-18. Deut. 21-22., Zech 14.1.

    There are more examples, but I’m not in the mood to dig.

  98. 0
    E. Zachary Knight ( User Karma: 2 ) says:

    @ Jer

    Well the thing with Moses and the curse, The king at the time when Moses was only an infant orderd all male Isrealite children under 2 or something like that be killed. When Moses became the prophet and the curses were coming, the first born curse was sent by God and as you said all the believers had to put lambs blood on their doors while feating on said lamb. That is the origin of the passover supper.

    @ Mad_Scientist

    I missed his God Rapes stuff. I can’t think of any instance where god raped anyone or commanded or condoned it. The closest I can come is the Virgin Birth, but that is not anything close to rape.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  99. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:


    Inclined to agree, but there might yet be something beneath the hate. I am willing to give one final chance, as I believe it good to be forgiving.

  100. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    @Jabrwock, E.ZK

    There is one fundamental problem with both your arguements. The Bible is a book, written by men, approved by a pagan, Emperor Constantine the Great.

  101. 0
    CowboyBeboper says:

    Huh, 111 comments and it’s not because of Jack.

    Anyways, if this woman is apologetic, I hope she will consider a public retraction of what she said on the show.
    It seems like the right thing to do.

  102. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    Might I remind you that the Egyptians killed all male Isrealite children at one point and was currently oppressing the Irsealites and not letting them leave the country.

    What happened to “turn the other cheek”? Since when has “well he did it first” EVER been proper justification for anything?

    God Commits Genocide: I guess he is refering to the Flood

    I doubt it. Anyone who wasn’t an Israelite was fair game for slaughter when David was leading the pack. With God’s blessing of course, because they were the chosen ones, and any other prat who currently lived in Israel’s future location was up the creek.

    This one is odd. God recieves no perverse pleasure from people’s suffering. He does use suffering to humble his people when they turn from him

    Or to win an argument. “Gosh, look at how devout MY followers are. Watch me torture the poor bugger, see how great a leader I am. Now kill your son.Oh just kidding, all’s well that ends well, right? Teehee. Here, have a bunch of children, forgive me?”

  103. 0
    Jer ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Thanks EZK.

    With the story of Moses, it was the King of Egypt that promoted that curse. And those who wished to be saved, ie believed in God, had to put lambs blood on their doors to show faith.

    and you hit the nail on the head with the Great Flood.

  104. 0
    DarkTetsuya ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    “To ere is human, to forgive divine.”

    Yes, what this woman did: speaking about a subject she didn’t really know about while feigning knowledge, was indeed reprehensible.
    The fact that she owed up to it, and that she was polite in her responses, does make me have a bit of respect for her.

    Really the only difference between her and Jack, as far as I can tell… I mean, when was the last time JT owed up to anything?! Yeah, never.

  105. 0
    GamePolitics ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    She’s nothing like Miami Jack. You know, she seems like such a nice lady that I really thought twice about putting this story up.

    However, I think what happened here reveals something important about the process behind the mainstream’s habitual slamming of games.

    So, the story gets told. She’s a grownup, and has to bear the responsibility for what she does.

    Going forward, I wish her well.

  106. 0
    Mad_Scientist ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    A couple of questions Pandralisk. You often refer to God as both fictitious and at the same time as “genocidal, child killing, etc.” You do realize that if God doesn’t exist, he isn’t child killing or anything because… he doesn’t exist, and therefore isn’t anything? I suppose you are trying to say that God doesn’t exist, but if he somehow did exist as described in the Bible, he would be child killing, etc, etc.

    The fact that you claim yourself to be unbiased is absurd though. No one is entirely free from bias, and you certainly are not. A more unbiased way of making your same points would be to say something like “Look at these Bible verses here where God, according to the Bible you believe to be true, told the Isrealites to wipe out this tribe completely. How does wiping out a nation, including children, square with your idea of a loving and just God?”

    What you say is basically “You believe in a murderous perverted evil raping ‘god’ that doesn’t actually exist, but you’re just superstitious cause you were brainwashed as a child.” And do you honestly believe that to be an “unbiased” comment, and wonder why people get upset at you?

    Also, whatever you say, you do push your agenda. You automatically assume just about every attempt to regulate video games is entirely an attempt by Christians to push their religious beliefs on you, and therefore go into a whole speil about how you think Christain beliefs are a thousand times more damaging than violent games. It does get a bit old.

    And by the way, could you reference the specific Bible verses where God condoned, committed, or otherwise approved of rape? I notice you often throw rape in in the list of your charges against God, but I can’t seem to recall a single case in the Bible where God even came close to condoning that particular act. Now, I haven’t read every single verse in the Bible yet, so perhaps there’s something I’m missing, or perhaps you got a bit confused about things?

  107. 0
    E. Zachary Knight ( User Karma: 2 ) says:

    @ All those Who are arguing Pandralisk

    I don’t have a Bible in front of me so I am working from memory. I also do not like Pandralsisks views but I will put some meat behind the broth he spews:

    God is, indeed, guilty of killing children, telling people to hate others, committing genocide, and using the suffering of people for his own perverse pleasure

    Let’s start from the beginning:

    God kills children: One of the plagues sent to the Egyptians was the death of all their first born sons. Might I remind you that the Egyptians killed all male Isrealite children at one point and was currently oppressing the Irsealites and not letting them leave the country.

    God tells people to hate others: I am not sure where he gets thid from. I do know that the Pharisees tought hatred toward the Samaritans, but that was debunked by Christ himself as man made doctrine. I cannot recall any instance of God telling people to hate others. Maybe you are referring to the “Gentiles” and how they were not God’s chosen people. But he never told anyone to hate them.

    God Commits Genocide: I guess he is refering to the Flood. At this point everyone in the world had turned completely against him and he needed to start over. Considering we were created to Serve God, I think he was plenty justified.

    God uses the suffering of people for his own perverse pleasure: This one is odd. God recieves no perverse pleasure from people’s suffering. He does use suffering to humble his people when they turn from him. It is not recorded, but I figure he tried much of this before the flood. He did use invasions, famine, pestilence, and allowing his people to be taken over by foreign bodies to get his people to turn back to him.

    Now dispite all this he has always:

    Made his people prosperous when they did serve him. They were rich, healthy, had large families, and lots of land. He tought love throughout the Bible. Love not only for him, but for all people.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  108. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    (In no particular order..)

    “Of course not. As I’ve said before, as long as we respect each others right to liberty and personal freedom [in this case, no more game laws/censorship/etc] I am perfectly fine with allowing people to be superstitious and ridiculous.”

    You aren’t holding fair though.

    “Arguing for mutual liberty and individual autonomy”

    ..Could have fooled me.

    “Respect our mutual right to liberty and moral autonomy. Let us not censor each other and force each other to do things.”

    You haven’t been censored yet. I must direct you to the comments policy. Specifically the part about staying on topic. I expect my posts to be hidden, you should also.

    “If you chose not to, please enforce a standard moral maxim against violence and hate. Judeo-Christian theology sits on a throne of murder, hate, threats, and lies. If you wish to censor violent the forms of fiction that I enjoy; pleae allow me to censor violent the forms of fiction you enjoy. At the least, we’ll wipe out violence and hate, together.”

    Judeo-Christian theology sits on a throne of murder, hate, threats, and lies – So does every country in the world minus very few exceptions. You cannot blame one thing without taking into account the others.

    If you wish to censor violent the forms of fiction that I enjoy; pleae allow me to censor violent the forms of fiction you enjoy. At the least, we’ll wipe out violence and hate, together – I would dearly love to do so, but it is absolutely impractical.

    “in this case, no more game laws/censorship/etc”


    I believe that is all I have to say so far. We can work together, but you must realise that you need to drop this agenda, if not keep it off this site. Until that happens, no progress is possible.

  109. 0
    Icehawk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @MR B.

    You are correct. I mis-stated (mis-typed) myself. I was thinking of GameSpy (my first internet gaming info source). Now I spend a good deal of my current time on Gamespot (which is better imo).

    Sidestepping the whole religious arguement (think we lost the topic a ways back). In my opinion Robert Heinlein put it best: “One man’s religion is anothers man’s bellylaugh”

  110. 0
    GoodRobotUs ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It’s not about religion, that much is certain, the recent schism over Halo 3 itself has already proved that. However, if it is to be argued that Halo should not be allowed into churches, then I would say that I agree unless it is being played by a Mature audience as recommended by the ESRB. Which, I suspect, is all anyone really is asking, on both sides of the debate.

  111. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    And you are doing.. what exactly to seperate yourself from them?

    Arguing for mutual liberty and individual autonomy; if such an argument is ignored, demanding that such individuals protect children from the violence, hate, and immense cognative responsibility that comes intrinsically woven into their religious tradition (otherwise their values would form a logical contradiction and serve as an enormous double standard).

    “Which I find funny. Very funny. You yourself qualify as a conservative/facist pig yourself. Adolf Hitler, as you managed to bring up, was not forgiven for his acts. One of which was to try and shut down the Protestant and Catholic churches. Exactly what you are doing, no? “

    Of course not. As I’ve said before, as long as we respect each others right to liberty and personal freedom [in this case, no more game laws/censorship/etc] I am perfectly fine with allowing people to be superstitious and ridiculous.

    However, if they create a double standard and shove their own bullshit perception of morality, I will attempt to argue one of these two things:

    1. Respect our mutual right to liberty and moral autonomy. Let us not censor each other and force each other to do things.

    2. If you chose not to, please enforce a standard moral maxim against violence and hate. Judeo-Christian theology sits on a throne of murder, hate, threats, and lies. If you wish to censor violent the forms of fiction that I enjoy; pleae allow me to censor violent the forms of fiction you enjoy. At the least, we’ll wipe out violence and hate, together.

  112. 0
    Matt Lucky says:

    this show irresponsibility on her part.

    more importantly it shows a larger lack of responsibility by Fox.

    and she can’t use the debate side track as an excuse if she’s the one who side tracked the whole thing. in fact she was the only one talking.

    i’m sure she’s a great lady but what she did is plain black and white wrong.
    this is in reference to blasting gamers and implying that she had a grasp of what she was talking about.

  113. 0
    Kincyr ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ all naysayers

    Pandralisk’s post at October 19th, 2007 at 3:28 pm wasn’t as focused on religion-bashing as his norm, but rather comparing the violence between the Bible and Halo 3. This is on topic since the topic has a bit to do with the Halo-in-Church issue.

  114. 0
    jds ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Pandralisk – God gave every man and woman free will, so he’s still got you covered, even though you are so mad much against Him. You are just exercising your God-given right.

    Amen, brotha!

  115. 0
    Jer ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    YOu keep spewing the same stuff yet never point to the passages that state what you are saying. From what you are saying it tells me that you have NEVER read the bible and have NEVER understood it.

  116. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    “I might come across as such because I am absoutely fucking sick of Bible thumping fascist pigs attempts to rape me of my autonomy and dictate how I “should” act.”

    And you are doing.. what exactly to seperate yourself from them?

    “and value the right a person has to decide their own mind on all choices in life, and get quite offended when someone who worships a child-killing, genocidal, dictator tries to tell me what is “morally correct.” “

    Which I find funny. Very funny. You yourself qualify as a conservative/facist pig yourself. Adolf Hitler, as you managed to bring up, was not forgiven for his acts. One of which was to try and shut down the Protestant and Catholic churches. Exactly what you are doing, no?

  117. 0
    jds ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I can’t help but think this stinks of the Rather-Gate documents… Regardless of your political opinions, Dan Rather used obviously-faked documents to attack the President of the United States. Again, political opinion aside, this was just wrong.

    Dan’s response to the fakes was along the lines of: Even though they are fakes I believe the spirit of them.

    Well, even though she doesn’t know how to analyze them, she agrees with their use and juxtoposition with violence in teens.

    Just sad.

  118. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    I do not want to delve too deeply into theology, but please understand that my comments on “God” are not directed at the idea of a higher being that somehow created the universe. My critiques against the nature of God are only applicable if you posit those values on God (which most major world religions do).

    By, “God,” I am referring SPECIFICALLY to the child-killing, genocidal, entity describe in the Judeo Christian tradition.

  119. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    Sorry, I do not need to try to telepathically communicate with a ficticious being that never answers the pleas of humans and has been guilty of the following crimes: genocide, child killing, torture, coercsion, bribery, etc.

    Why do I seem so hateful, you probably wonder?

    I might come across as such because I am absoutely fucking sick of Bible thumping fascist pigs attempts to rape me of my autonomy and dictate how I “should” act. I love games, and value the right a person has to decide their own mind on all choices in life, and get quite offended when someone who worships a child-killing, genocidal, dictator tries to tell me what is “morally correct.”

  120. 0
    PHOENIXZERO ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    IGN? That place has pretty much been dead to me for several years, pretty much since they killed the wrestling section and then with whole “Insider” thing was rolled out in a sudden and insulting way with a big FU to those of us that were there from the start.. It took my awhile to go back and by then they allowed the game boards to be open and still I’ve only been back there on a few occasions, last couple times I spent any significant time there was before GTA:VC’s release and the same for GTA:SA’s release so I guess I really haven’t posted there in almost three years. O_o Of course now I know they’re a part of News Corp…

    Annnyway, at least this woman admitted to this though it does nothing since no one outside the people who visit this site will know or care. But Fox News shouldn’t be singled out in this, all the news networks are guilty of this sort of thing.

  121. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    “I am so sorry if your indoctrination in a religious tradition [”god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good”] has blinded you from the crushing reality that tends to follow fair critcism.”

    Go fuck yourself. I chose to believe in a God. I have never so much as spoken to a local Priest. It was my choice.

    I believe in evolution, I recognise Science as fact and the rights of other to believe what they want.

    I do not however, recognise your rights to push your views into the minds of others. You attempt to fill others with hate, in complete correspondance to everything you say Organised Religion has done to others, and you act as if you have the moral high ground.

    That is my problem with you. If you care to look at the few atricles in which you have not brought in religion, you will notice that I side with you where others do not. What right do you have? What right?

  122. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    And no, I think the claims I posit onto religions beliefs are incredibly fair and honest. God is, indeed, guilty of killing children, telling people to hate others, committing genocide, and using the suffering of people for his own perverse pleasure. All of these claims can be found in the Bible. It is also true that the Bible says God is loving, but the negative actions of God form of an over-ruling contradiction against the claims of a good God.

    Do we consider Hitler a moral person because he showed love during parts of his life and forget his most evil acts?

    Christians get so offended, and tend to see my arguments as “religious bashing,” because they have been spoon-fed the notion of God as good so much that they have lost touch with unbias consideration.

  123. 0
    GoodRobotUs ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It merely helps if one does not deal with a minefield by using a pogo-stick, I think that, at the end of the day, is all I’m saying.

  124. 0
    Jer ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Maybe you need god in your life then maybe you wouldn’t be so hateful. You are SO blinded by your hate.
    I wonder what version of Christianity (protestant, mormon, etc.) caused you to become so hateful.
    You are reading what you want to read, not what is actually being said, aka meaning of the text.

    Prayers should go out to you that you diminish your hatred and that you try to understand.

  125. 0
    Pandralisk says:


    I drag religion into threads that deal with game legislation that is motivated from the perspective of religious fanatics trying to codify censorship laws [either explicitly or implicity] to force their version of morality down the throats of others. Religion is a relevant topic in a thread like this. It is the core motivation of those who seek to rape us of our rights and autonomy.

    Check out my responses to threads that have nothing to do with religion, and you’ll see that I do not bring it up.

  126. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    For the last time, I am not bashing religion. Every value claim I make about religious can be validated by the following process:


    Religion, double standards, and enforcing moral “norms” is at the heart of this news article. I have every right to discuss the topic.

    I am so sorry if your indoctrination in a religious tradition [“god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good, god is good”] has blinded you from the crushing reality that tends to follow fair critcism.

  127. 0
    Meggie ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    GryphonOsiris Says:
    “@ Meggie
    Simple fact, Jack Thompson will not get involved in an honest debate after the devastating loss he had to Adam Sessler on G4 tv. He knows that ‘we’ the games will win everytime on a level playing field, so he makes sure the odds are stacked in his favor.”

    Hence why I don’t try to contact him. The man won’t listen to logic if it contradicts his views, no point trying to offer it to him.

    Same song different thread, you always find a way to drag religion into something and how much you hate it. For once can you leave it be?

  128. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:


    I am talking about the parts where he fails to realise that religious people have a right to post here without beratement over their beliefs on a topic which has nothing to do with Religion in the slightest.

  129. 0
    Neeneko says:


    Actually, I had the exact opposite reaction.

    She knew she didn’t know enough, but she went on the air and pretended she did because it made good TV. And doesn’t seem to feel the slightest real regret over it.

    No professionalism, or at minimal she is not a professional. You try that excuse in ANY real profession not only would you get laughed at but you would probably loose your lisence.

  130. 0
    Pandralisk says:

    Why do people not see the real problem here?

    The Average American Mindset:


    1. Teaching a child who is barely capable of reading elementary text books about an insanely complex religious tradition that venerates a “REAL” God that kills for pleasure, commits acts of genocide, threatens free people into submission, and is not supported by any emperical evidence, whatsoever…. (all done while the child is often forced to attend services, does not learn of the negative aspects of the religion, and does not have access to other religious theories. PERFECTLY OKAY!


    2. Allowing children to play a fictional game that depicts a man fighting to save life on the planet earth from swarms of evil intergalatic aliens. NOT OKAY!

    …Does anyone else see a MAJOR problem here?

  131. 0
    MR.B says:

    I just found video of the Manhunt 2 story.I found it on their web site.The link is too long to post.According to the story aired on Oct. 16. Since its a long link to post, just type in “Manhunt 2” in their search bar and click on the “Video” tab.It’s the top-most story on the list.This is the story with the watermaked “IGN.COM” Manhunt 2 screenshots.

  132. 0
    general531 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @BlackIce, Leftie
    Do you really hate anything involving News Corp that much? I know Fox News is not the best ever, but I’m not blowing off IGN because their staff has something in common Fox News (Rupert Murdoch’s ownership).

    I did not see that segment.

  133. 0
    Zerodash ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ BlackIce

    You are aware that communism would limit your rights in ways that even the “stupid conservatives” can’t?

    Read up on your history plz.

  134. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:


    The cause of Communism. I’m giving up Nescafe and IGN. I didn’t watch Fox to begin with. Aside from the occaisional Simpson’s Episode, but I get that on Sky One and Channel Four..


    Will do. Will need a link though. I can’t watch Fox to save my life. Stupid conservatives..

  135. 0
    MR.B says:

    The screenshot was the one with the guy holding a axe ready to hit someone laying on the ground.The watermark was in the lower-right corner.

    The reason why I said to watch for it was the possibility of the same screenshots to be used in the Jack Thompson interview tomorrow on Fox News.If the watermarked screenshots show up in that interview and that interview hits the web,it could really effect the cred of IGN in the gaming community.

  136. 0
    Icehawk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    So you are giving up Coffee (Nescafe. Didn’t know they still made that… shudder), IGN (which would also include Gamespot which is a pity) and FOX? The sacrifices you make in the name of….. er what is it in the name of?

    Guess that leaves All the more time for you to spend warping your greamatter into something violent and making odd posts here.

  137. 0
    hilaryduffgta ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I loved watching adam sessler Pwn Jack..Only thing that would of made it better was if adam and morgan tag teamed jack…

    as for this lady i have no comment

  138. 0
    Zerodash ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Dog_Welder

    True, MSNBC and (especially) CNN have their own bias and left-leaning agendas. Fox gets a bit more of the hate lately because of:

    A) Liberal types are still coping with this “new” media. People typically label outlets of opposing viewpoints to be “biased”. It happens everywhere.

    B) Fox News constantly claims to be “fair and balanced” to the point of redundancy and they really wear it on their sleeve. The fact they are anything but “fair and balanced” highlights the irony.

  139. 0
    MR.B says:

    @Tom,general531 and BlackIce
    On a news story on Fox News about Manhunt 2 (this was a couple days ago),the screenshots of Manhunt 2 they used had the “IGN.COM” web watermark on them. Make sure that when you see any new news storys about the game on Fox News that you look for that watermark.

  140. 0
    chris says:

    At least her correspondance seems civil but aside from that her reasoning that behind her actions is drasticaly opposed to the entire nature of professionalism. shame on her.

  141. 0
    daniel3 says:

    “changing kids’ brains” is inappropriate language… (+that was one sorry=ass map of the human brain with ‘t-storm’ splotches)

    that would be like saying if someone had a sip of beer and felt slightly tipsy, the brain was ‘changed’ -it’s a temporary emotional thing

  142. 0
    Dog_Welder ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    For those blasting Fox News, do you really believe CNN or MSNBC are any different in the way they present “news?” Fox might have a conservative spin, but if you’re thinking they’re any better than the other 24 hour “news” stations, you’re incredibly deluded.

    I limit any news station viewings for when a big event happens to get actual news. The moment a so-called “news” show featuring opinion comes on, I change the channel. I can decide what I think for myself, thanks.

  143. 0
    Da Vinci says:


    It’s because she doesn’t appear to be on a religious crusade against us lowly sinners.

    She also doesn’t appear to be trying to replace the parents of America.

    Lastly, she’s not filing gay porn in her report. That one’s key.

  144. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:


    Me? Flagged? Pah. It’s the snails. Snails everywhere. But i’m ready for them! I’ve built a fort up in the mountains. The secret entrance is under the floorboards, but don’t tell anyone. It’s a secret.

    Maybe I am flagged.. Must have… Gunpowder..

  145. 0
    Lovely says:

    to retrogamer: Well, her chance to admit what she did on tv has already past. I sincerely doubt that Fox will put her on to make such an admission. Considering they are the one who partially put her up to it.

  146. 0
    Lovely says:

    “To ere is human, to forgive divine.”

    Yes, what this woman did: speaking about a subject she didn’t really know about while feigning knowledge, was indeed reprehensible.
    The fact that she owed up to it, and that she was polite in her responses, does make me have a bit of respect for her.

  147. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    Sweet Home Alabama… Lord i’m comin’ home to you…

    ..Did I just say that..? I’m never going near Coffee again.. Well, not Nescafe certainly..

  148. 0
    mary says:

    She could of easily given her opinion with out the use of the brain scan but because it backed up her beliefs she used it. If she has been on other T.V. programs she should of come off more professioal.

  149. 0
    startrekmike says:

    It is this kind of thing that makes me want to back off from my dreams of becoming a journalist.

    Her panicked and crazed rants on that segment pretty much show how much she understands the issue beyond her personal opinion, it is sad that most people still think that if it is on TV it must be true.


    I am amazed by the fact that you turned down a opportunity to go on national TV so you could maintain your personal integrity…that is a amazing thing and the reason I look up to you as a journalist.


    I would not go on TV to play into a hack job…there are many people in this world who still hold integrity higher than money or fame.

    This “expert” has no excuse at all…I don’t care how nice she is as a person…she still is helping to perpetuate a view that has little or no merit in todays society.


  150. 0
    mary says:

    The whole thing in a nut shell she did what they asked to gain more noteriety and get paid for her time. Any true professional would of stated I can not comment on that because it is the first time I saw it and even if it is true I need to investigate it further. Instead, She just did what they told her to do. I as a R>N. would call her a quack

  151. 0
    GameDevMich ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “You’ve got to be able to look yourself in the mirror after the networks have milked you for whatever purpose they have in mind for the moment.”

    Thank you Dennis. I respect you for that comment, and believe you mean it 100%.

  152. 0
    Saint13 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “…it will always help me grow as a person and as a professional. I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan!”

    Call me crazy… but commenting on something that you had no prior information about and no chance to research while pretending to be knowledgeable about it? That’s probably not going to contribute towards personal or professional growth.

    This is why I prefer “my side” to “their side”. My side admits that there is violence in games, insists that if you’re going to bash on a game that you at least have the correct information, asks for actual proof that the violence in the games causes violence in the real world on the scale “they” claim it does, refuses to accept propaganda as legitimate reporting, admits that we do have many on our side who have an unfortunate tendency to flame people when angered…

    Almost smells like… integrity.

    Their side, on the other hand, does whatever it takes to get on television and stay there regardless of how it may compromise their credibility. I agree that Dr. Bartell’s responses seem to be much more reasonable and pleasant than those we see from many others. She has pleasantly admitted to a rather appalling lack of personal and professional ethics, unfortunately.

  153. 0
    kurisu7885 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    After all this, in my opinion, she is far better than JT. Not only did she actually respond to criticism, whereas JT won’t even give an opponent the time of day[backing out of debates anyone?] but from what I see she was very respectful about, as opposed to JT’s one or two sentences spewing insults at well written counterpoint emails.

  154. 0
    Skylar ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I just gained some respect for Dr. Bartell. At least she realizes that misrepresenting facts is wrong, even though she did it anyway. Sure, it’s unprofessional to claim youself as an expert on a subject of which you know very little, but at least she fessed up to it.

    That said, perhaps professional ethics should be a required course in college, because clearly many “professionals” have no idea how much responsibilty comes with carrying that title.

  155. 0
    Luke J J says:

    At least she admitted she didn’t know what she was talking about… in a way that makes her less of a douche than JT. Then, I guess, in another way, more of one.

  156. 0
    Zerodash ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Dennis

    While I agree with your asessment (sp?) of said doctor and the interview, would you not agree it is tough to back down from a national TV appearance? Everyone wants exposure for various reasons (career, fame, etc) and it must be quite tough to avoid the temptation.

    I know I’m not the only one who would have done the same thing in her shoes…

    GP: I suppose it can be tough. But let me tell you a story. In 2005 GP gained quite a bit of notoriety due to our coverage of Hot Coffee. Right on the heels of that, you may recall, came a brief tempest in a teacup over a nude mod for The Sims 2, showed the blurred-out bits when The Sims went at it… Jack Thompson got involved (actually, I believe he was duped into it by a gamer… a gamer who frequents here, in fact)

    Anyway, I got a call from Good Morning America. The correspondent (I believe it was Jake Tapper but it’s been a while) wanted me to come on and talk about what a danger The Sims were, relating the nude mod to the hidden content of Hot Coffee. Would have been a big break for me at the time, but I just wouldn’t do it because it was nonsense.

    You’ve got to be able to look yourself in the mirror after the networks have milked you for whatever purpose they have in mind for the moment.

    (adding this in as I think back)…. been trying to recall that ABC thing. I believe it was a producer for ABC News trying to line up guests for Tapper’s piece, not Tapper himself. The producer was actually pretty cool about it. They were looking for someone to trash The Sims, I said I couldn’t (I love the damned Sims and the story was a non-issue), he was okay with that, advised me not to let anyone pressure me into it if I didn’t believe in it. Wish I could remember his name.

    Pretty interesting though, they would have done the spot from my home, would have brought all of this camera and sound equipment in…

  157. 0
    ZippyDSMlee ( User Karma: -1 ) says:

    Dr. Bartell more like DR.Belitle facts and current logic of the psychologist assations or what not all call her a flake on this subject, do please try again.

    bayushisan ni san *pounce cuddles* how uu been?? ^^

  158. 0
    CowboyBeboper says:

    “I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan!”

    What a freaking cop out. She should most definitely be ashamed of herself for saying this. No professionalism whatsoever.

  159. 0
    GryphonOsiris ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Meggie

    Simple fact, Jack Thompson will not get involved in an honest debate after the devastating loss he had to Adam Sessler on G4 tv. He knows that ‘we’ the games will win everytime on a level playing field, so he makes sure the odds are stacked in his favor.

  160. 0
    DCOW ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “I appreciate candor — it will always help me grow as a person and as a professional. I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan! I’m just not that much of a purist”

    so you admit to lying about an issue you have no clue about?

    I don’t know about you, but for me, I don’t promote something unless I have details.

  161. 0
    Werrick ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Anyone who watches this kind of thing and believes this stuff has other reasons to be worrisome beyond gaming.

    The only thing that concerns me about this is the fact that some of my gamer brethren behaved badly by flaming someone who is in a position to speak very publically about us. I think we owe ourselves more than that.

  162. 0
    Conejo says:

    “I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan!”

    so… you admit to not being a professional?

    a professional is someone who does not lie about things they do not know.

  163. 0
    GryphonOsiris ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Marlowe, except that would derail the idea of her being an expert. Everyone who tuned in assumed that she had brought this material with her, which lent her more credibility that she had. Remove that illussion and the possibility of more uninformed people saying, “Hey, you mean she isn’t familar with the stuff she is talking about?” and would set in some lingering doubt, not to mention make her look bad on national TV.

  164. 0
    chuck ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    So, Doc Bartell’s defense is “well you guys on GP sensationalized it too!”.

    Not to diminish Dennis’s work, but really, this is not the kind of argument on which you set high standards. Otherwise, they may as well have had random bloggers on the show (which, actually, they do whenever they need to dangle them like a curiosity, “lookit the widdle citizen journalist and his widdle opionions, awww!”)

    Look, TV news shows are entertainment first AND last, any actual professional journalistic value you’re perceiving in it is PURELY the result of overt manipulation, and any facts you receive are simply by accident. You may as well be analyzing the arguments on WrestleMania.

  165. 0
    nightwng2000 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan! I’m just not that much of a purist…”

    Nor a professional interested in The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth.

    I know I sound like a broken record, but that’s what it comes down to.

    NW2K Software

  166. 0
    Meggie ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    The hostess even began with comments about “shooting and death,” the person the steered the conversation back to the church groups and Halo was Bartell. The whole thing was just meant to be a “oh nos!” segment, not any kind of real discussion.

    She responded to an email I sent as well, and we had a short back and forth. While I’ll agree that I can’t stand what she said on the program, at least she responded at all, and in a polite manner. All the media critics and politicians I’ve mailed or emailed never gave me the time of day.

  167. 0
    Arch says:

    You know, working for a book store kinda puts me in a position to help my customer. They ask me what books do I think so and so should read, or if this author is any good. I know most of the people who come into my store, and I know they like to believe their authors are true to their words and brave enough to stand up and correct faults if they’ve made them.

    Though it’s small, I’m not recommending her to any of my customers.

  168. 0
    Marlowe says:

    She should have at the very least said something to the effect of “now I only just saw this study, however in my professional opinion I feel this way” etc. Made it be known she’s not entirely familiar with the study in question but still be able to give her opinion as a psychologist on the matter. The study was more of a backdrop, her opinions as a psychologist were more important anyway so it really wouldn’t have taken away from her message while still giving more of a fair and honest context to the audience.

  169. 0
    Dregnarg says:

    Any legitimate professional in psychological, medical, biological, etc. fields do a great disservice to the respect, trust, and legitimacy of the field as a whole whenever they do something like this, especially for those reasons.

  170. 0
    GryphonOsiris ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Considering that the whole show seemed to be distinctly set up to give a slanted point of view I’m not at all surprised that the material was handed over a few minutes before she went on air.

  171. 0
    Icehawk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Hmm So she is human and with her own mind? She just said those things the other day because? Well l suppose we all need to be paid. Point of contension would be that she will never actually admit that she was wrong in the format she used to bash games without a clue.

    Also I noticed in discussion with Dennis that she is still says:

    “The scans aside I stand by my opinion that violent games should not be played by teens…”

    The rating arguement again it seems. Most here agree that the “violent games” should not be played by children (say under 13) but for teens? Oh well.

    Still it is better for Her not to be an ally to JT. He has this tendency of turning on, betraying and eventually sueing his “allies”. Just look at Alabama where he had “Won” not long ago.

  172. 0
    Tom ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Why is this surprising? First of all, Fox isn’t a news station anymore and secondly it has an established anti-game and anti-gamer agenda. Remember, anything Murdoch says is gospel on Fox and that old fool is probably not a fan of games.

    They’re also going to pander to their religous right audience in the worst way, so of course they’ll ambush someone who agrees with their POV with an uncontextualized excerpt from a study that could questionably be percieved as supporting their agenda.

  173. 0
    Eric Lamy says:

    @Blackice, Leftie

    I don’t think anyone was asking her to make a better judgment. The thing to do would be to not pass judgment. If you don’t have the information to give intelligent commentary on a scientific study, don’t comment.

  174. 0
    Jabrwock ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan! I’m just not that much of a purist…

    But then, YOU’RE supposed to be the expert, come to tell Fox about these studies, not the producer… By just regurgitating whatever the show tells you to, you lose all credibility for being there. Heck, even a “I just found out about this study…” preamble would at least have let people know that YOU YOURSELF are recently aware of this, and so would assume that you are not 100% familiar with it, but perhaps familiar enough to comment. Instead they got the impression that you came after fully researching the issue (including the study they just happened to have a screenshot of…)

    Instead you get labeled as a mouthpiece for the station, essentially a trained monkey handed some talking points.

  175. 0
    BlackIce, Leftie says:

    Look, I doubt she had much to go on. She was handed the study five minutes before she was on the air.

    I doubt anyone can do better. Infact, I invite them to do so.

  176. 0
    E. Zachary Knight ( User Karma: 2 ) says:

    Yeah, she has no guts. How many serious professionals will act knowledgable in a subject that they were only introduced to five minutes prior to speaking on it? None that’s how many. She was merely concerned about securing a client so that she could be invited back again and gain more “credibility”.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  177. 0
    bayushisan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    More of a Fox affiliate actually. Something that’s been pointed out,repeatedly, by others.

    That being said I think the good doctor maybe SHOULD have been that much of a purist. It seems like she was more concerned with how she would look walking out on a show than be honest.

  178. 0
    Turthan Natner says:

    I being a teen who likes halo am happy to see this… and hate jack thompson
    also what the hell is that crap about churches “using” halo to promote religion?!!!
    these retards know nothing about halo then! “halo” does not refer to the crown of an angel but a giant space ring that can kill a whole galaxy!!!
    that sounds like they made up that fact just to catch some extra interest

  179. 0
    ooftygoofty says:

    Hehe I think I drew him out.

    Seriously, Jack, have you noticed that neither Dr Bartell or Dave Grossman or any of the other people you fiercely cling to are posting here? Maybe they have better things to do. I should think you’d also have better things to do if you’re on a crusade to save the world, but doing a piss-poor job of something requires little prep time, I guess. Anyway, I predict you’ll quickly alienate your comrade-in-arms doctor with your childish antics, possibly even before you’re disbarred. Really, man, do you ever look yourself in the mirror and realize what a complete loser you are? Have you actually accomplished ANYTHING? All bluster and hubris aside, do you really believe you’re going to accomplish anything? Does it bother you in the slightest that even your own son probably sees you as the buffoon that you are? I know it’s not within you to admit mistakes, so I’m not expecting you to back down or anything, but I’d like to think that, at some level, you’d have to acknowledge that you really are a ridiculous and increasingly irrelevent old man. Maybe that irrational anger you thrive on is just inwardly directed shame. You can get treatment for that, but I wouldn’t recommend the quack you went to for your preemptive examination.

  180. 0
    Erik ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “…or endorsed by the God and explicitly contained in the religious text. I think the entire books of numbers, deut, and revelations amount to little more than a divine list of God raping, pillaging, threatening, and destroying just about everything in sight.”

    Isn’t taking things out of context fun? You know who else are murderers? Those police, going around and shooting people. Mind you lets ignore the justification for said shooting.

  181. 0


    Funny, Numbers is primarily a book of Law. Deuteronomy is primarily a sermon given by Moses, and Revelations is primarily a description of the End Times, which in the rest of the Bible, is defined as every moment since the ascension of Christ (Revelations is also horribly misinterpreted by the mainstream Christian movements, what some here may call “Evangelicals”)

    The Old Testament *primarily* is focused on pointing toward Christ, a specific group of people given the opportunity for material wealth, if they followed the laws they were given precisely — and they couldn’t. It really shows just how much humanity on a whole, cannot follow the rules, and how laws cannot save, only condemn. When Christ walked the earth, the Old Testament laws were declared to no longer be required. The entire *point* of the New Testament (like, maybe check out the book of Hebrews, if you are *so* self-assured that you are right) is that the Old Testament laws no longer apply, and there is one, and only one way to be saved (through belief in Christ).

    Now, I will agree, there have been *many* people who have misinterpreted or exploited the words of the Bible for their own ends, through history (the Crusades, etc.) — but that has all been mostly a deliberate misuse of what is written. The Book of Revelation now is often pointed to any a number of people, but the interpretations are…. bizarre. The only interpretation that I’d trust, is one which the only thing used to interpret that book is the rest of the Bible — no human bible scholars digging through it for some “hidden meanings”, just using the original Greek words, finding the same original Greek words (or phrases), how they were used, in the rest of the Bible (particularly the New Testament), in order to get an understanding of what is said. The English translations fail, return to the original Greek, or find interpretations of Revelations which do *just that*, and you’d find that the so-called “Evangelical” movement’s ideas on it (like found in the whole “Left Behind” series of books) is rather incorrect. Heck, that particular interpretation makes no logical sense to begin with.

    Now please, do pay attention to the difference between what people have done in the name of a religion, and what the religion actually professes. There is a huge difference.

  182. 0
    DeusPayne ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “I couldn’t — five minutes before going on air — say, sorry I won’t do it, I don’t have enough background information about this brain scan! I’m just not that much of a purist…”

    Wow… wow…

  183. 0
    Pierre-Olivier ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    This is inevitable. There will always be extremist (from both sides). Pandralisk, however brands every Christian as bible thumpers.

    A lot of religious persons will never change their point of view (sometimes, it’s because they grew too comfortable with it), but that doesn’t mean that everyone are that stubborn. A concept that Pandralisk and Thompson seems unable to accept.

  184. 0
    SounDemon says:


    Oh, and there are a LOT more verses in the bible than what you quote to support your viewpoint. Don’t be like Bill O’Reilly; don’t be a cherry picker.

  185. 0
    Mauler ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Much like believing that something is true because you want it to be true, be it a brain scan proving games are bad or that the laws of God somehow don’t apply, doesn’t make it true. You have to come up with some kind of evidence for either.

    As for that analogy, it’s off the mark by about everything. To make it the same you would have to, after the dream from God saying adultary was bad, turn around an enact a law that says everyone should commit adultury.

    The only reason that the Bible is worse than video games is that there is a contingent of people out there who don’t see the Bible as a work of fiction. That is the one defense that video games have. They are fiction and everyone knows it. Well, almost everyone. But far more people have trouble seperating the fiction in the Bible than the fiction of GTA. That and nobody looks to Rockstar as an infaliable source.

  186. 0
    Icehawk ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ Raziel3024

    True she is not. Nor apparently as clueless.

    As for JBT…. He has a long history of turning on those that at one time supported him then were no longer of use. So I doubt she is any worse off now with her partial retraction then she would have been later.

  187. 0
    Marlowe says:

    I mean I’m gonna give her the benefit of the doubt, I understand if the show producer go “comment on this” 5 minutes before you go on, you kind of would want to just go “alright fine.” I feel like the main thrust of the argument wasn’t observing a study, it was interviewing an expert, whether or not you agree with her, I sure as hell don’t, she certainly knows a thing or two about psychology and that would qualify her as such. Now the show itself was insanely biased, I find that to be a much larger problem than this woman they got on, she was just doing her job and giving her opinion. The fact is the show should have had a counterpoint to her claims, that would’ve sure as hell kept her from commenting on a study she wasn’t familiar with and it would have forced her to be more prepared and less sensationalist or she would have looked like an idiot in front of everybody.

  188. 0
    Benji says:

    I’m kind of struck by how the standards of being an ‘expert’ on TV seem nonexistant and you can basically claim to be an expert on whatever you want if you have a couple of degrees. I’m studying for my EIT (engineering licensing exam) and one of the important ethics issues is that you don’t talk about what you don’t know – if you do you risk being thrown in front of an ethics board and having your license revoked. We have exacting standards for claiming to be an expert in court cases and other legal things, but TV seems to have no such standards at all.
    Not that I’m knocking Dr. Bartell – I’m sure she’s smart and all, and if it was improper of her to act the expert on TV it was more improper of Fox to put her in that position.

  189. 0
    chris says:


    No matter what your opinions or the opinions of others on religion the basic fact is that you have shown without doubt your hatred for religion in this thread, and made a clear attack on it that was not aimed at any particular basis in the story, you can play your ‘christian morals’ schtick but it wont fly.

    You have preached hatred simply said, and I fail to see the christians in the thread returning with their own hatred.

    The point is its out of line, clearly biased and verging on bannable, so in future stick on topic because youre schtick is as old as jacks by now, just like your bias and hatred is as clear as his.

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