Why the hell is Dudley Moore attacking video games?

... um, what?

No, they're not pulling it from shelves, Jack. All you've done is opened yourself up for more lawsuits... and caused a few retailers to put it out a day early. Plus, you advertised the game, so now it'll sell more copies. You lose. Again.

And stop with the disrespectful Hooah.

Kendra Kirai: Society has turned into a bunch of pussies because of all the advanced technology that has helped us live safer lives. We have more types of vaccines, anti-lock brakes, even that damn seal that won't pop until you untwist the cap from your bottle for the first time. Face it, we have gone soft. I remember watching Mighty Max and in retrospect a lot of parts were pretty dark for a kid's cartoon. Our grandparents were raised to be tough, now you can't fathom lifting a finger at spanking your kid because it is too harsh. We have blown our chance at finding a middle ground at everything. We have developed an obsession for a perfect society and are unaware at the diminishing returns that come from placing "just one more" safety net. Choices in life are involved multivariable deduction. You cannot go either all the way in one direction nor in the other.

Okay, now that's out of the way check this sample quote from a GameFAQs forum troll:

"Whoopsie, another FFFlop of a game hyped by the drones.'

That's Jack Thompson's writing style when he claims a victory. Tongue-in-cheek and rubbing it at the opposition.

Because of the change in Manhunt 2’s rating, it’s a given that this ultra-violent game will be sold to children.

As much as I agree that children don't need to play Manhunt 2, I think Mrs. Linn overestimates the popularity of the game among children. Also, the problem isn't Rockstar producing violent video games, the problem is stores not enforcing the ESRB ratings.

Ugh. The stream of people saying "Listen to me, I'm relevant!" isn't going to end today is it.

*Yawn* And the pundits come out to play. I still think I ought to go out and buy 25 to Life out of spite.

@EZK

I don't know, I want this controversy to end already.

@ GP

Why don't you have a video clip of this?

Not going to. Thank Rockstar for all this nonsense, they're the shock jocks of the video game biz, they're not doing it out of horror, or art, or any of that other nonsense, they're doing what they know how to do, and that's stir up controversy. I actually wouldn't cry about it one damn bit if they shut their doors permanently. With that said I'm ambivalent about MH2 as well, it doesn't even look that good for crying out loud. Seems to me like it doesn't bring enough to the table to justify the bad press it's costing the industry. Maybe we'd have been better off if the ESRB had stuck to the MO rating.

It's official, no one at Rockstar can even take a crap without the media talking about it.

Here, I'll fix this:

Tomorrow's release of the 'Saw Trilogy' epitomizes much of what’s wrong with the movie industry’s current system of self-regulation.

Research clearly demonstrates that watching violent movies can increase the likelihood of aggressive behavior in children and youth. Yet even as the industry claims it wants to keep its most violent films out of the hands of children, it virulently opposes any legislation that would give teeth to its often unenforced guidelines for sales and marketing of R-rated movies.

@ Zen

No one disagrees with you (accept maybe certain nanny wannabes).

I am getting tired of the free advertising that Manhunt 2 is getting. I doubt that this game would have sold half of what it will sell tomorrow if these people had not complained about it.

Jabrwock, the bandwagon leaves tomorrow, IIRC. I was thinking of Mel Blanc from a Looney Tunes cartoon saying "ALL ABOARD" when you wrote that.

LOL

@ DoggySpew

Because then they will be ignored.

@ Dread

there is nothing wrong with that statement per se. One could ask how exactly it is virulent, but grammatically it was sound.

Anyway, I'm not worried about manhunt 2 or saw IV. I'm more worried about anyone actually interested in them.

"Tomorrow’s release of Manhunt 2 epitomizes much of what’s wrong with the videogame industry’s current system of self-regulation."

Before you start throwing stones at one industry miss Linn perhaps you should consider putting some regs on your own industry? Just a thought.

"There is no transparency in the ESRB’s ratings process; no explanation was given why the rating for Manhunt 2 was downgraded from Adults Only to Mature."

No explaination was given. Question... Did you even ASK Rockstar for the stuff that was cut? Not to mention if you do start down that path I highly suggest that you do the same with Saw IV and the rest of the horror movies that are being released at this time. However, I'm sure that you're ignorant or simply omitting that you're aware many films change their contect to get a desired rating as well.

Am I the only one who thinks this group is beating a dead horse? These seem to be the same ones who we have on our "news" channels that have the same lines everyday: "News at 11, people died."

*content not contect.

Stupid rented fingers ^_^

Yeah..
Except for that whole thing where research HASN'T clearly shown that violent games promote violent behavior, and if children get their hands on M rated games it's the fault of stores and lousy parents, not the creators...

"Tomorrow’s release of Manhunt 2 epitomizes much of what’s wrong with the videogame industry’s current system of self-regulation."

Indeed. What kind of sick industry would label a game only meant for mature audiences as 'Mature' rated? It makes me sick.

Listen here 'Doctor', you're not the first hack to come along and think you're an expert and you won't be the last. You'll be joining a queue of hundreds like you who are wrong and have failed and will fail time and time again because they spout the lies they've been fed ad nauseam and just plain fail to learn the rules of the game, or from their mistakes. You, and everyone else like you (Leland Yee, JT, 'Common Sense' Media and the rest of the fascists), are missing the point entirely. I am about to summarise your entire argument in a sentence:

'The ESRB, which is owned by and paid for by the entire video game industry (so here we are assuming the industry exists as a single entity and not a vast system of thousands of publishers and developers), is failing to keep mature-rated games out of the hands of children and is thus failing parents.'

Firstly, the ESRB is an independent board that regulates itself and is not owned by or paid for the video game industry. You assert that the industry pays for the ESRB. Are you seriously saying every week, each reviewer gets a payslip signed by 'The Video Game Industry', and some guy goes around to EA, R*, Activision, THQ etc. with a whip-round to pay for the ESRB? I guess 'doctors' aren't always as clever as they think.

Secondly, the ESRB is a rating board, not a police force. You might be surprised, but a quick look on their website or on Wikipedia and you'll be astonished to find that ESRB isn't just a fancy name but an acronym, which, when decoded, actually reveals this fact! Therefore, as a rating board, and not a police force, it is somewhat far-fetched to expect that they go around following children to make sure they aren't buying games unsuitable for them. Strike 2, 'doctor'.

Thirdly, lets compare an example of a child buying an M-rated game and a child buying a pornographic film, since you and your ilk consistently say that Manhunt 2 and games like it are as bad as or worse than porn.

A child buys a porn film, sits down in his front room and watches porn film. Parent walks in, confiscates the film and punishes the child for watching porn.

A child buys a game intended for mature audiences and plays it in his front room. Parent walks in. TV screen shows a man brutally murdering a woman with a chainsaw. Parent asks, "What are you playing?"
Child replies, "GTA."
Parent walks on, takes no notice.

If there is anyone to blame for failing the parents, my guess would be the parents.

QED.

@ Jack Thompson

I have been working with Susan Linn on this. Great job by her. Oh, and we’re winning this one, if you couldn’t tell. Hooah!

Jack Thompson

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Is that what you are saying here?

I also can't tell what the victory is. Are you saying that you are victorious in that you have created a media storm of free advertising for Manhunt 2 and guaranteed its success in the market, then yes you are winning. Other than that, you fail.

"Tomorrow’s release of Manhunt 2 epitomizes much of what’s wrong with the videogame industry’s current system of self-regulation."

The only thing "wrong" with the self regulation of video games is that it is not being heeded by parents. The ratings are there but are not being heeded. The parental controls are available on all consoles but are not being used. The authority to stop your children playing/watching/listening to things that are inappropriate is there, but is not being put into action.

"Research clearly demonstrates that playing violent videogames can increase the likelihood of aggressive behavior in children and youth." Debatable, and depends on your deinition of aggression. Aggressive does not mean violent.

"Yet even as the industry claims it wants to keep its most violent games out of the hands of children"
The industry cannot keep games out of the hands of YOUR children. That is YOUR job. They provide you with ample tools and guidelines with which to do this job but they are ignored.
"it virulently opposes any legislation that would give teeth to its often unenforced guidelines for sales and marketing of M-rated games. "

Unenforceable and impractical laws will not give any teeth to enforcing of video game ratings. Parents being educated and informed and having a spine would. Also, the industry is not the only thing opposed to these laws, the Constitution is as well, as has been proven many times already.

"There is no transparency in the ESRB’s ratings process; no explanation was given why the rating for Manhunt 2 was downgraded from Adults Only to Mature. A recent review in the New York Times says the resubmitted version “seems to retain at least 99 percent of the original content”."

I write a novel in which 3 people are murdered. One is killed by an acid bath, one by stabbing, one by mauling from a rabid dog. Originally the descriptions of the deaths are incredibly gory. I decide to tone down the descriptions. I still have a novel where three people are murdered in these ways. That is what the New York Times is referring to. The story elements are still there, but the depictions of the violence are toned down or faded out/blurred.

"Because of the change in Manhunt 2’s rating, it’s a given that this ultra-violent game will be sold to children."

Take it up with the retailers and the parents buying it for their kids.

"Forty-two percent of underage shoppers in a recent study by the Federal Trade Commission were able to purchase M-rated games."

Which we have noted before is much better performance than the study on movies, where 60+% of kids were able to buy inappropriate movies, which I would argue are worse for kids.

"The ESRB has confirmed that its allegiance is to the industry paying its bills, not to the children it’s supposed to be protecting."

Christ, how many times do people have to be told before the message sinks into their thick skulls? The ESRB IS NOT SUPPOSED TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN! It is supposed to give parents the tools and information they need to protect THEIR OWN children. It has no allegiance to the industry.

The ESA pays the bills for the ESRB, but that is because they are putting money into providing these tools and information for parents.

2 more days till November, hope you will get the boot, Jack.

"I have been working with Susan Linn on this. Great job by her. Oh, and we’re winning this one, if you couldn’t tell. Hooah!"

The game is out tomorrow, what have you won again? Or is this another victory like your one against Halo 3? *snigger*

Is your victory the riling of soccer Moms into thinking this game will be the downfall of society? If it stops some dumbass parents from buying the game for their kid, then I suppose it's a victory of sorts, maybe...

"Oh, and we’re winning this one, if you couldn’t tell. Hooah!"

LAAAWWWL! Winning? What kind of idiot are you?

1. TakeTwo/Rockstar Released the game. YOU LOSE

2. Our right to choose our own entertainment is still intact. YOU LOSE

3. You can't even attempt to declare it a public nusiance. YOU LOSE

4. The media attention is increasing parent's awareness of game ratings. YOU LOSE


Go and have a few drinks tonight- you have a rough couple of weeks coming up.

do these people even know what responsible parenting is?

"Its a given that this game will be sold to children"
I hope you never EVER work in a retail shop.

@Jack Thompson

Have you ever been any armed service, sir?

That "Hooah" line's a rightfully earned privilge among the marines, and quite frankly, your using it so liberally is an insult to their service.

Nope, I've never been in the service either, but at least I'm smart enough to know it'd amont to disrespect to parade around using a line or logo I never earned.

@Jack Thompson

Working with her on what exactly? A press release? Congratulations I guess, but I'm not sure what exactly it is you were trying to accomplish. Frankly, there's already huge quantities of people that will boycott Manhunt2 for various reason; and frankly, they probably should.

@ DoggySpew

Actually, it has been pushed back to December, unfortunately.

"A half truth is a whole lie."

True. But it is more dangerous in that it holds some symblance to truth. In this case take the following:

Manhunt 2 has been rated M - True
Manhunt 2 will be sold to kids - False

Simple Bollean logic states that if one statement returns false the whole statement is false. But in soccer mom logic, if one statement returns true then the whole statement is true.

See why half truths are more dangerous.

@ Zachary

Yeah, my oldest is 6, so he's a bit wider on what he can play. My 3 year old has vision problems, so all she is worried about is the music, and my little one is 2..and damn if he doesn't try to play anything his older brother is playing. My oldest LOVES the comic movies that we watch, along with Star Wars and such. But even for theater releases we've made it a habit to go watch it ourselves before he can, just in case. Spider-Man 2 is a great example of this. The scene, which was a classic take on the same style from his Evil Dead series, where they try to remove Doc Ocks arms, then he goes nuts and kill the other Doctors. We decided that he could not watch that and made him wait for the DVD release when we felt he was more suited for it. He didn't freak out, or do anything violent, because he knows that I limit his exposure for his own good. And I think he will actually appreciate it when he's older and hopefully follow the same path with his own children when he's old enough. But I did let him play the xbox version of the Spider-Man 2 game because he LOVED to just swing around town all day.

@ Jack Thompson

What have you won? The game is still available to sell today or tomorrow, and most people are smart enough to know what their own kids can and can not play. The big M on the front is a pretty easy way to tell (my SIX YEAR OLD can shop around for games and knows he can only play up to a T rating WITH MY PERMISSION ONLY). So if a 6 year old can figure this out because a parent helped, why in the hell can't an adult that gives a damn figure it out? I don't want to be punished for some stupid parent that can't take the time out of their lives to raise the child beyond the time it took them to make him or her. I don't even really want to play the game, but want that freedom for others to do so as they please in regards to what they play, read, watch, and listen to.

Jack Thompson, I hope you read this, because I want to pose a couple of good questions for you... Honest questions.

1. How will you measure your success, or victory? sales numbers? game being banned? low review ratings?

2. How have you won anything with your Manhunt 2 rabble? The game is being released.

3. Don't you realize that you have hyped this game up in every child's mind so that they are going to stop at nothing to get a copy? All the media attention, when parental guidance would suffice, is only making children want it more.

4. How have you done anything to reduce this game's affect on the videogame industry and keep it away from children.

A little root cause analysis would take you to logic-world, where parents are the problem here, not some industry.

How is this a victory?

@ Jack Thompson

How the heck are you winning? Because of you and people like you, you've actually increased the media hype for the game and ultimately they will sell MORE copies of the game and make MORE money. Dam Jack can you start fighting against me so you can "win" and I (not you) can get a ton of money.

99% is still there, eh? I guess you would be happy if 99% was edited out and replaced with fluffy bunnies, right? I guess it goes to show you the fin line between AO and M when only a few scenes needed cut/blurried.

Remember, kiddies, Jack is a TTWO sharholder, so of course he's winning! Free publicity is ensuring than kids who have no other interest in the horror game genre (they are too busy trying to play Halo with their older siblings) will want to know what all the fuss is over! Instant best-seller!!1!

Despite the fact that early reviews of the game are mediocre, and the un-edited version is freely available (since CSM has it) so the concerned about ESRB crowd can see exactly what was cut. Reality doesn't sell TV ads or get idiot, lazy parents to pay dues, now does it? So have another chardonnay and let the Feds handle raising your brats. You seem to be incapable, so why even try, right?

"Can you open my milk, mommy?"
"My name's Ms. hoover, Ralph, not mommy"

It's sad how true that joke really is.

@ BlackIce

Yes they are.

@ the1jeffy

Ralph is the best.

@JT - If by winning, you mean, "Letting Manhunt 2 be released tomorrow," then yes. Congratulations, your plan worked to...er, wait. No, you failed.

But back to the article -

"Research clearly demonstrates that playing violent videogames can increase the likelihood of aggressive behavior in children and youth."

Wrong. And look, she's even citing sources like a certain lawyer I know. Show me the evidence, and I'll show you where either the study fails to find a correlation/causation, or I'll show you a different study that refutes whatever biased study you've got.

"Yet even as the industry claims it wants to keep its most violent games out of the hands of children, it virulently opposes any legislation that would give teeth to its often unenforced guidelines for sales and marketing of M-rated games."

When the MPAA does the same thing, sure. Until then, retailers are responsible for selling the games, just like each movie theater is responsible for letting the correct people in to each movie. Legislation, in its current form, has been unconstitutional. God forbid the industry oppose anything that goes against this country's ideals.

"There is no transparency in the ESRB’s ratings process; no explanation was given why the rating for Manhunt 2 was downgraded from Adults Only to Mature. A recent review in the New York Times says the resubmitted version “seems to retain at least 99 percent of the original content.""

And 99% of it was probably well within the M range. All it takes is one or two scenes, lasting all of two seconds each, to raise a rating higher. Take any chick-flick that's rated R. You add just one 5-second sex scene that shows EVERYTHING, and it gets an NC-17. Simple as that. 99% of that same movie is still rated R.

"Because of the change in Manhunt 2’s rating, it’s a given that this ultra-violent game will be sold to children. Forty-two percent of underage shoppers in a recent study by the Federal Trade Commission were able to purchase M-rated games. The ESRB has confirmed that its allegiance is to the industry paying its bills, not to the children it’s supposed to be protecting."

Right, blame the ESRB. They're certainly the ones behind every single GameStop employee's hand, whispering in each of their ears "Do it. Go on, sell GTA to that five-year-old." Wrong again. Blame the parents for not knowing what their child is doing, and blame the retailers for not enforcing THEIR OWN POLICIES. It's not the ESRB's fault.

Now please stop being a random talking head that has no clue what she's talking about. Go back to your hole, go play puppets with your kids some more, and then come back when you have something intelligent to say.

Has jack ever said why he doesn't fight the movie industry? I know he says games are worse because of their interactive nature, but surely he doesn't think it is ok for kids to watch a steady steam of gore torture films like saw does he? Why not a peep when a new Saw movie comes out? I don't get it.

@Dave

We already know why he doesn't fight the movie industry.. They're a much stronger target.

Hey, BlackIce... what's the "NKVD" stand for?

Case No. 07-21256, US District Court, Southern District of Florida:

Dennis McCauley to the rescue, helping Jack Thompson!

Thank you, Dennis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GP: That's interesting, since you have habitually referred to me as a "game industry stooge."  The truth, of course, is that I simply report on what's happening and let the chips fall where they may.

@jds

Thank you, thank you. I'm here for God only knows how long.

Waht's the next interesting day coming up? I might do a Spetsnaz one then.

Jack, you ALREADY LOST. For god's sake, the game's out. It's done. Over. Finished. Manhunt 2 is out and once again you've failed. I mean, not like I didn't see this coming but hey, I can gloat as much as I want.

I stopped reading her remarks after one sentence. She might as well of appeared on a show on Fox, bleeding idiot...

@Tristram

Agreed, the sentence is grammatically correct, but it's easy to create grammatically correct sentences which make no sense (ie "He climbs like a fish."). As you say, my comment addresses how it actually makes sense. Here's some variations Ms. Linn could try on for size:

“it aquatically opposes any legislation”
“it gubernatorially opposes any legislation”
“it angularly opposes any legislation”

One could go on to have great fun at Ms. Linn's expense, but I think the key here is that really, she chose a word without really knowing what it meant. It didn't make any sense in the context, but it sounded derogatory and emphatic, so hey, that's good enough, right?

I think that makes an apt metaphor for how these anti-game activists work. They don't understand games, and they don't care if what they say is accurate or even makes sense, as long as it gets people worked up and generates press.

CBS evening News is going to to do a story on this today, in their preview summary's description of the video clip it reads: "Only On The Web": Daniel Sieberg previews a story about "Manhunt 2," an indiscriminately violent video game that, to the dismay of advocacy groups, has many kids waiting in anticipation.

Yeah, fear the stupidity

Heh, That_1_Guy over in the New York Times article comment section said:

"They say: 'seems to retain at least 99 percent of the original content.'

JT says: See I told you they didn’t change anything!"

He was wrong in that it's actually not Jack Thompson who is first using that article statement to condemn the game, though he may have been involved in CCFC's decision. Still, pretty good call. Even positive articles about the game get taken out of context to condemn it. I wonder why they aren't mentioning the fact that the same guy who made the 99% comment also said the game was no more violent then the Saw or Hostel films? Wait, no, I don't wonder why they are ignoring that.

Hehe, this is amusing in some twisted way. I've noticed that places like the CCFC are actually taking notice of the FTC reports on ratings enforcement now. I wonder if they actually bothered to read how the same report rated the enforcement of other media types. Are they just willfully ignoring the fact that the report they are quoting pretty much states that the video game industry is doing the best job out of all of them? Probably.

Um... just how does that filing "help" JT? And just how does that tie in with the current conversation?

Please stop "hijacking" the conversation, Jack.

Notice how Jack "Attention Whore" Thompson's posts are never more than two lines? He never thinks of anything valuable to say. And if it isn't happening here, it's certainly not happening on tv and crap.

@ Jack Thompson

Case No. 07-21256, US District Court, Southern District of Florida:

Dennis McCauley to the rescue, helping Jack Thompson!

Thank you, Dennis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does that have to do with anything in this discussion?

@GO

What the hell?

@GO

It's an INTERNET Halloween Costume. A.K.A, A special edition screen-name.

And i've already actually got one.

I do have to wonder what kind of granola ol' Laddy Jack's smoking to actually believe he's getting anywhere.

@ E. Zachary Knight

I was thinking the same thing. It appears to reference another one of his requests to recuse a judge.

@ Zerodash

I read it and it is from a couple of weeks back. It is the Judges refusal to recuse himself from the Disbarment trial. So how that is Dennis helping Jack or a good thing for Jack in any way is beyond me.

Never Going To Get To France!

"Because of the change in Manhunt 2’s rating, it’s a given that this ultra-violent game will be sold to children."

Ooooh, so close. Here, let me fix that for you. I think you'll notice the subtle but important effect of the change:

"Because of the change in Manhunt 2’s rating, it’s a given that this ultra-violent game will be bought by children."

@JT

Oh, and we’re winning this one, if you couldn’t tell. Hooah!

Yeah, you're so winning, it's out in stores a day earlier!

Um. Good job?

'Long as Dennis doesn't have a problem with it, we can say whatever we want about a topic.

@vellocet

They're not aware such things exist. Stupid Soccer Moms..

@E. Zachary Knight

I think maybe you misunderstand, I, for one, wouldn't boycott the site if he wasn't banned. What I had in mind really, wasn't a threat-style-petition so much as a clear declaration of public will. "We, the readers of GP, want Jack Thompson banned for reason of immature behaivior and multiple code of conduct violations". (I'm oversimplifying the list there, but it isn't necessary to go into it.)

My point is, I wouldn't necessarily want to get into the "OR ELSE" mentality. Put simply, a petition to ban Jack should just be a clear declaration of public will. The ECA loves to trumpet how it champions the public will, I say we give them that chance. Essentially Dennis and Hal would have to sit down and decide where their priorities really lie.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

@jds

Then shouldn't the industry be shouting it as loud as they possibly can? It would take every argument away from the other side.

Unless the argument is worth continuing (for the industry and politicians). Perhaps none of this is about protecting the children after all...

@GRU

I like idiots better.

I actually had no interest in this game before... Now I think I'm actually going to buy it.

@BlackIce

Independant
Draconian
Instition for
Overtly
Tripling
Sales

Ahhhh... takes me back to the old days in the Motherland, he who controls information, controls the world :)

Pity I mis-spelled institution, but html tags make things confusing.

@ Oni, thirded (?)

I'm tired of him too.

@Zerodash, Pixelantes Anonymous and Oni

He can't be banned. He uses a site to scramble his IP.

Where exactly has Dennis given Jack a hand.

@ BlackIce

It could simply be a matter of marking all posts claiming to be from him (Name and/or email) as requiring moderation.

Never say never. I will give him credit though, I never expected him to be computer saavy enough to scramble IP's.

Jack, with all due respect, what the hell are you going on about?

As for winning, well, you're not. You haven't won in a long time, sir. Did you win concerning Bully or Halo 3? Tell us how exactly you are winning/have won, and, by implication, how we are losing.

I might drop by your old friend Best Buy today and take a look at the game on the shelves. But I doubt I'll buy it, as it doesn't appeal to me. Don't think too hard trying to figure that one out, Jack.

*edit* opps, I meant "It may or may not", not "I". My bad.

@yuki


its jack thompson you know he will complain for any reason at all...Im use to it now so its just another day at gp when he makes those posts

@jds

Did you notice how CNN kept refering it as a "free internet download" instead of "illegal internet download"?

I swear I think I've heard that EXACT same crap-spouting rant before, and I mean word for word.

It's really sad, it seems as if they're like parrots; shouting out the same crap without knowing what they're saying.

@jack thompson, attorney
"Oh, and we’re winning this one, if you couldn’t tell."

If you have to tell people you're winning, it means you're probably not.

@kurisu7885:

What about all those illegally leaked copies of the uncut version? Did he get rid of those? ... Didn't think so.

@ beacon80

Ba-ZING!

The esrb does not exist to police children, it exists to provide guidlines based on content thats it. After that it's up to the stores to check I.D.

Far more important than that and of course lost in Dr.Linns idiotic rant, is that it's a parents responsibility to know what there kid is playing. The parents bear the brunt of the responsibility here.

@Jack

Winning what? The game isn't for kids, everyone agrees with that. It's like standing up and yelling "the sky is blue!", then thinking you're winning an argument.

Plus.. since when have you "won" anything?

Why is she attacking the ESRB? It's the distributors who are at fault, not the ESRB. Best Buy sells videogames to minors, not the ESRB.

In not that long we will be seeing a story of Jack Thompson sending his son to get Manhunt 2 from a store to prove a so called point.

I have got this on the news. You can't get this game. I win, you lose! Hooah!

Children want the game, including many children who are mature enough to play it. The ESRB's action is something they like. What they have no allegiance to is lobbies who want to put parenting in the hands of the government. And that's a good thing.

@Jack Thompson
You are so stupid and egotistical it's funny as hell.

@Jack:

The only people who can't buy Manhunt 2 are either underage or not in your country. How is this even remotely close to a victory for you?

Stop it Jack. It's not funny anymore. Seriously, the day you'll win a case will be the day when I turn into a seagull.

Sadly, it seems that the only person you'll ever listen is yourself.

Jack, face it, in the end, you still lose. Why continue fighting a battle you've already lost?

That doesn't even sound like Jack. His logic may be bad, but his grammar tends to be decent.

@Xlorep

I'll wait and see, but Jack tends to be like a newb in an AOL chat room, look at some of his legal documents. The more excited he gets, the more he just mashes his fingers against the keyboard, thinking that the harder he hits the keys, the more emphatic his response will look at the other end.

I've never figured out the reasoning behind this kind of behaviour.

@ JT

Stealing the empty boxes from your local Blockbuster does not constitute being unable to play this game.

Pssst! BTW, the boxes are empty Jackie :D

Why the hell do critics keep going after the ERSB system? They didn't rate the game as E10 for kids they rated it for adults. That's like complaining that Saw 4 got rated R.

Hmmmm.....funny when I check Best Buy's website it has it for the Wii in 5 of my 6 local stores. But I guess I can't get it.

... well, at least the clerk tried. Thanks for the laugh, Dab.

the Campaign for a Commercial-free Childhood should be called the Campaign for a Communist Childhood since the two are synnonymous

People like this one are such pussies. We should keep our current pace until something blows up in our face. It's how our brazen ancestors did things in order to see what was good and what wasn't, and the human race is still alive and kickin'. But lucky for her, she doesn't have to do anything. Manhunt is already rated M, so it is already illegal for a kid to buy it.

Jack Thompson sounds like an internet troll. He'd actually fit in well with the bottom rung of the GameFAQs forum members. All we get in GameFAQs are trolls that hate certain consoles. I think a troll that hates all game consoles will certainly put some spice into the mix.

Jack Thompson's afraid that he's up against millions of gamers that are out to get him. In his words, "it only takes one." Yet if you think one is too much, you are a pussy.

Good one Loudspeaker!

one more thing. Take Two probably had a second version ready to submit at the time they submitted the first one in case of any rating problems. or just for the media they could create by making it AO and then M.

"I have got this on the news. You can’t get this game. I win, you lose! Hooah!"
Lol, what are you talking about? You sound like my little brother.

@ Paul

were you here when he did that interview on GameTwat? That should get rid of most of your doubt.

"The ESRB has confirmed that its allegiance is to the industry paying its bills, not to the children it’s supposed to be protecting."

The ESRB was never designed to protect children, woman! Do you not know anything? All self-regulatory bodies, including the MPAA and the Comics Code Authority, were created to protect the industry from government censorship and public backlash. If the parents or the stores don't heed the ratings, it's not the ESRB's fault, nor is it the fault of the game industry.

It's incredible how naive these people are, dont'cha think?

@ ThriceFallen

Agreed. I have seen several instances in which parents buy their child "M" rated games despite warnings from the store clerk. Hell, I (as a fellow customer) even had some guy threaten to "demolish" me when I advised him about the content of MK:Armaggeddon he wanted to get for his 10(ish) son.

People, people, please.

Jack Thompson is in severe, severe denial right now. Give the man some space. He needs to go to his happy place. He feels uncomfortable here.

...ok, i'm running out of cliche psychiatrist lines.

I can't wait for the NPD numbers for October and November!

'Research clearly demonstrates that playing violent videogames can increase the likelihood of aggressive behavior in children and youth. Yet even as the industry claims it wants to keep its most violent games out of the hands of children, it virulently opposes any legislation that would give teeth to its often unenforced guidelines for sales and marketing of M-rated games.'

That's fine, except...the research *doesn't* 'clearly show' that playing violent video games increases aggression unless the kids are unstable to begin with, it's 'vehement' not 'virulent'...and she never lays any responsibility on the parents for knowing what their kids play. Who besides the parents who don't give a damn about their kids, or the ones trying to show the flaws in the rules give their kid sixty bucks and say 'Go buy the most violent thing you can find'?

Also, like movies, there are levels of what's rated 'M'. A game with some bad language and rather intense scary scenes, without gore, can get an 'M'...and games that are just short of pornographic snuff films can get an 'M'.

Who here besides me remembers going to the Transformers movie in 1986? Deaths everywhere, a couple cases of bad language, a couple fairly gruesome scenes where somebody (Who cares that it's a robot) gets torn to pieces by other robots, or melted in a vat of acid? And it was rated PG. A couple provinces in Canada even rated it *G*. Even if it was the 80's, and people weren't as terrified of everything, it was rated that way because the rating board didn't think it quite deserved a PG-13. Other movies that had a *single* death or a couple bad words *alone* were also rated PG. There's a spectrum to each rating milestone.

There isn't much of a difference between 'Mature' and 'Adults-Only' at this point, by the way. The Morality Police try to claim that 'Nobody under 17 should play this at all, no matter what!'....that's kind of the definition of 'Adult Only', isn't it? Also, I wonder how many of those 42% underage sales were stings, and how many were allowed because the parents were there to okay the sale. She only says that 42% of underage shoppers were able to buy the games...not the circumstances around the sale. How many of those were actual game stores? How many of those were places where the person behind the counter barely knows how to work the cash register, let alone the difference between a T and an M rated title?

For that matter, lets card everyone under thirteen! Keep those T-rated games out of the hands of pre-teens!

@BearDogg-X

Oooooh, is that all? That makes no sense in the context of this story. I guess I was looking for some kind of zing from Dennis toward Jack personally or something. Eh, thanks for the enlightenment.

Somebody tell this nosy bitch to stay out of our bussiness. Where was she when the Halloween remake came out two months ago? This game is no different than a movie like that yet for some reason it's ok to watch a serial killer murder innocent people in gruesome and creative ways yet it's not ok to see animated pixels do the same? Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in this? We let our kids watch Michael Myers slice and dice innocent people in horrific ways yet it's some how wrong for them to see the same in this game?

I always want to ask these hyped up anti-video game activists where they think their small children will be getting the $60 to pay for the game.

Jabr,

You forget, he believes all GP posters are little kids, who now can't get the game due to his victory. Not withstanding the fact that kids by-and-large couldn't buy it before-hand . . .

Don't get me wrong - I'm not necessarily in favor of banning JT (even if 'twere possible - someone said he uses an IP scrambler to get around IP bans). I just think that if he makes a post that's completely irrelevant (a press release talking about his latest legal actions or whatever) the post should be deleted.
His posts in this thread are... I dunno. By my count he has three in this thread. The first was okay. The second was vague and probably irrelevant and should be deleted. The third is relevant but also completely nonsensical, it seems.
If JT makes news, fine. If something happens in his court cases, he's still an active player in the game debate, so fine. If he wants to contribute something useful to the discussion, great, insider viewpoints are always nice. But I'm very tired of him using this as a soapbox to talk about things completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what the age demographics are for GP. Future poll suggestion, maybe? Or would that be a little too personal?

Given the number of times posters on here refer to their job, their experience as a parent, the fact they "grew up on Doom" and so forth, I think it's frankly stupid to assume that everyone here is a fourteen year old girl from Florida.

@Yuki
@ Arch
maybe he thinks just because some stores aren’t selling the game now and waiting for tomorrow, he believes he won?
I think it is that he feels everyone posting is a kid, but that wouldn't surprise me. He is known to lie about such matters and take credit for things he didn't do......

My take is that JT thinks he is largely responsible for getting this "disastrous" information out(which he wasn't, again with crediting himself with other's work), and that because of this "damaging news" us "kiddies" here can't get this game.