November 2, 2007
The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has joined the ranks of Manhunt 2 critics, according to The Gamer Gene.NAMI's executive director Mike Fitzpatrick (left) issued a statement on the ultra-violent game, which depicts a mental patient's desperate struggle to escape from the Dixmore Asylum for the Criminally Insane. Fitzpatrick said:
NAMI asks Rockstar Games to recall or further modify the videogame Manhunt 2 due to its irresponsible, stereotyped portrayal of mental illness. We also ask retailers to be responsible in responding to public health concerns.
Even though some people may consider Manhunt 2 to be only a game, it unfortunately perpetuates and reinforces cruel, inaccurate perceptions that people who live with mental illnesses are violent. The U.S. Surgeon General has condemned such stigmatization, identifying fear of stigma as a major barrier to people getting help when they need it. The overall contribution of mental illnesses to violence in society is exceptionally small. In fact, people living with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence...
We do not favor censorship, but we do ask for responsible exercise of creative rights when serious public health concerns are at issue. It is our right to demand a higher standard.
Comments
Like the Halloween series?
So....its your right to censor what you dismiss?
Next you will tell me evil is a mental illness that can be cured with lolies and teddy bears.......
This is the type of thing that makes our side look just as ignorant as Jack Thompson and his friends, the man says right in the article say he does not favor censorship. He is asking for voluntary corporation in avoiding the propagating of negative mental stereotypes. Some of the things he asks for are unrealistic which in it of itself isn’t unusually advocacy groups of all sort often ask for more than they know they’ll get, it is the old door in the face salesman’s tactic. This is not censorship it is good citizenship, this is in fact what we want people to do instead of turning to censorship! If asking someone to stop propagating negative and false stereotypes is censorship then Jack Thompson is right the whole world is trying to censor him.
ZOMG?!?! uuu mental too? 0-o
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic
At all.
- Warren Lewis
Now on a more serious point, honestly its just not right that they want to prevent people expressing a point and telling a story. And if they bring up the interactivity in the argument, then they just defeated their own "Perpetuating the Violent Mentally Ill" argument, for we are playing the guy, so are in control of him. We get to say what he will or wont do. Hell, we could make him just wander off. Besides, theres a bunch of monsters attacking him, id get violent too if it were me.
thanks for the correction. :)
@bloodharp
"We’ve gone through assassins, cops, murderers, thieves, dragons, wolves, random elf people, and the random Bandicoot and Lombax."
dont forget italian plumbers, hedgehogs, and even a dolphin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_the_dolphin).
"recall or further modify" "It is our right to demand a higher standard."
thats censorship. maybe not full blown censorship but its damn close. he wants the game to be changed just because he doesnt like something about it. if they give in to that sort of thing all hell would break loose and you would have these types lining up at the door demanding things that they dont agree with to be "recalled or further modified".
Does anyone have a thorough link to the entire storyline of Manhunt 2? Because the above is how I understood it from Gamespot.
At this rate, shows like the Six Million Dollar Man, Bionic Woman, and other "alter the physical abilities of people who have been terminally injured without their permission and indoctrine them into secret organizations" should be banned because they put a negative spin on the government, on the medical profession, and on people with serious injuries (who can be saved using secret super surgeries to turn them into supersecret agents of super secret government agencies).
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
RoboCop. 'Nuff said. :)
But seriously. I don't like this one bit. This is in line woth the Church of England demanding Resistance be changed to remove the Cathedral level. If game developers had to change their games to avoid offending any person or organization, then there would not be a game industry.
These people can be safely ignored.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
What's going on in our country? Is everyone offended by everything?
You said it yourself, it's just a game. A game people. A friggin' game! It's not an encyclopedia or the evening news. It's not a source of information for basing your life decisions on.
When is the Manhunt 2 critic bandwagon going to break down?
Your wagon sank. You lost 3 oxen, 4 pairs of clothing, and 17 bullets. Mike Fitzpatrick has Cholera.
2 posters in this article ( http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3798090&page=1 ) were already prattling about the NAMI before this guy said a word. Wonder if they are a branch of the LaRouche cult.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Does putting things in a movie theater make them less offensive somehow? Or is there a double standard here?
Yes: “Whether these images are found in TV, film, print, or other media, StigmaBusters speak out and challenge stereotypes. They seek to educate society about the reality of mental illness and the courageous struggles faced by consumers and families every day. StigmaBusters' goal is to break down the barriers of ignorance, prejudice, or unfair discrimination by promoting education, understanding, and respect.”
If you take at look at this page you can see from the titles alone they do practice the above http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Stigma_Alerts_Archive
Black Manta you may now begin taking them more seriously.
“thats censorship. maybe not full blown censorship but its damn close.:
Yes if you take an overly stringent definition of the word but that would RS be self-censoring themselves ,which is a practice done by and expected of every human being and human organization on the plant. The president of this organization (the person referenced in the post I was quoting) is asking for a greater, degree of self-censorship on Rockstar’s part, this is a request not censorship.
There is a big difference between asking someone to practice greater self-censorship and to say that a person himself or herself is censoring something. Again my example: Dennis and pretty much everyone here has asked Jack Thompson to practice grater self-censorship in his post, however we all agree that Dennis himself is not a censor despite the fact that he is requesting voluntary self-censor be done by another party. Let me put it another way I can (and have as a dietetic major) asked the many major food companies to basically do the above with products which implying that they are health but aren’t I’m I now a censor for doing this? No, I am voicing my opinion; it is their choice if they want to follow. When I no longer give them a choice, pushing game laws and mandatory government recalls, then that is when I become a censor.
Lastly, “give in to that sort of thing all hell would break loose and you would have these types lining up at the door demanding things that they don’t agree with to be “recalled or further modified”.
They are already lined up, and if Rockstars does so and other companies follow, that is an industry tread responding to public opinion, you may not like the trend but again the NAMI cannot be called a censor for simply triggering a trend. It would be as if saying a fashion designer make pink out of fashion is censoring people who chose to wear pink.
“It’s not a source of information for basing your life decisions on.”
It a source that should not be used for such thing that doesn’t change that people do make decision based on these hence why this is justified, I agree it shouldn’t matter what one game stereotypes but health care advocacy and really health care in general based on should be does work very well.
“What’s going on in our country? Is everyone offended by everything? “
Ok than post that in response to a poster here, calling out JT or someone else for making a gamer stereotype, after all it a double standard otherwise. I finding it seriously bizarre that people are complying that people find this offensive (being offended by people being offended?) the game was designed to be offensive to the average persons taste, this isn’t even close to being offended by everything. This is pretty much exactly the type of response rockstar want to invoke. An artist made a piece of art people responded to the art this good, this the way it supposed to be, if the artist changes his art to suit the taste of his public that is his right and his prerogative. Crazy lawyers wanting to pass laws stopping citizen from every being able to witness said offensive art, now that is bad.
I actually had a Ron White quote to back me up but I can't remember the whole thing. If NAMI didn't have all the facts before issuing the statement that's their problem. Look at all the half truths and out right lies that are polluting the social atmosphere at the moment. This whole dust up, as in the whole Manhunt 2 'public outcry', has very little to do with protecting anyone and everything to do with public image. I just wish all these people and groups would come clean on that regard. It'd be a very refreshing change.
By the way, is it just me is NAMI coming a little late to the party? How long has it been out there that the game was going to start in an mental institution. It reminds me of the Resistance: Fall of Man issue. Is selective ignorance a term that can be coined to sort of sum up this whole situation in a nutshell?
the game is fiction
and just to let you know now you are on the Ass hole of the year list along with Jack,Yee,Fox network, super conservative christans, etc.
hah hah hah.
seriously though, this is just another lobby group trying to get face time by inserting themselves into an ongoing event in the media. anybody remember the albino league (or whatever) that was very outraged by the davinci code?
same crap.
out of curiosity was this the same group that demanded Vince McMahon change the XFL team from the Memphis Maniacs to something else as maniac is not a PC term for a crazy person?
probably, but they were dressed like a 50 year old woman at the time and insisted that they be called the Forthright Grandmother Association.
El oh El at the crazies.
is NAMI concerned that people will find out that the Mental Health profession are performing secret experiments on the Mentally Ill
Actually, you might be a bit closer to the source of the flap then you thin. The mental health profession is still trying to shake off the memory of the terrible things they used to do, and are still trying to brush under the carpet the rather expletive things they are often STILL doing. So this is probably less about stereotypes of the mentally ill and more about the image of the bad apples within their organization.
That and the Resistance fiasco.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
And what's with the accusations about double-standards? Show me where it says that they are supporting movies with mentally ill killers.
"Does this remind anyone over that bullshit on Residen Evil being Racist?"
Right... This is hardly on the par with that reaction. What they are saying, judging from this, is "Hey, be bit more careful about portraying mentally ill people, because they aren't murderous maniacs and they get a lot of shit from media already".
I'll give you that they are probably trying to take advance from the whole sensation surrounding Manhunt 2, but they aren't saying anything utterly ridiculous here.
This is what kind of reactions take credibility away from gamers' opinions; Attacking anything that criticizes any game.
JT, Yee, and whoever else is against T2 in one group of 10 and 10 regular Joe's/Jane's. Now we evaluate them before they play, to get their mental thoughts. Then let them play for a few hours. After the time is up we'll evaluate them again. To find out if playing this game makes them prone to the violence.
Oh and these people saying that you are portraying a mentally ill man going a killing rampage. No, this guy is wrongfully being held in a cell even though, he is sane. They need to get their facts straight, and find out the story line before they assume the worse about the game. Am I right or what?
Oh and JT, it'll be a while before I have that second copy of Manhunt to so send to you. You should give it to your son, he deserves it for doing your dirty work.
http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/StigmaBusters/2000/NAMI_Campai...
Don't just assume hypocrisy. It's lazy and hypocritical.
kinda makes sense these would be the mean ones
Actually I would call the 'official' response pretty on-par. Granted there are not legions of pissed off bloggers chiming in so things are still faily polite, but NAMI still came in from a fairly condescending, hostile, and somewhat insulting tone. Considering this is starting from an official spokesman from a significant organization rather then some misc blog amplifies the effect.
Reading Ace of Seven's link, it looks like this is pretty common for them... a good way to play the victim and get sympathy/donations but a terrible way to actually effect any of the changes you are championing for.
In short, I stand by my original assumption that they are probably trying to protect the imagery of doctors and asylums. I rarely believe organizations like this actually care that much about the mentally ill.
No, people have always been this easily offended.
What has changed is:
(a) America has gotten better (somewhat) about looking down on 'victims' so people from small groups can now SAY they are offended and:
(b) Unfortunately, we have also developed the social construct that if you are offended it is 'ok' to offend back, since some groups are now 'allowed' to be offended and other groups are only able to 'be offensive' and thus do not have feelings of their own.
This is what kind of reactions take credibility away from gamers’ opinions; Attacking anything that criticizes any game.
Reading through, I think a lot of folks here are attacking the criticism because it is unfounded. If those people at the NAMI had actually played through the game, or even made their objections to actual specific narrative elements in context, I'd consider their comments more seriously.
But they did not. Instead, it seems they're calling for censorship of the game simply because they heard that part of it is set in an asylum (?).
The statement was made by someone who obviously has not played through the game or even given it proper respect as an artistic narrative. The statement is deceptive and exploitive, designed to capitalize on the game's current publicity and nothing more. If NAMI can't be bothered to take the game seriously, why should we bother to take their statement about it seriously?
To be clear, I think the idea of demanding censorship of a narrative you haven't even experienced is indeed ridiculous.
I don't think any particular subject matter should ever automatically be taboo for creative expression, and I don't think any organization should release political statements about products it hasn't bothered to research.
The mentally ill, including myself, may be crazy but they're not stupid and can think and speak for themselves.
Now if a group of mentally ill people came out and slammed this game I would view that as more noteworthy than any of these watchdog groups and activists because they would have a basis for their arguements.
Secondly I greatly dislike it that they issued their statement without reviewing all the facts. From what I understand the main character of Manhunt 2 is not acting out violently because he is mentally ill; he is acting out violently because people are trying to hurt or kill him. In the context of the game he IS the victim who is only trying to protect himself. (As I have not played the game I would welcome any corrections if my understanding of the plot is incorrect.) NAMI says that mentally ill people are "far more likely to be victims of violence" and that is exactly what is happening in the main plot here. If one assumes the spokesperson for NAMI did not know this then they just come off as ignorant or stupid. However if a reader were to assume that they DID know the details of Manhunt 2s plot making this statement makes it sound to me like it a person who is mentally ill cannot defend themselves from violence without people believing that it is not self defense that is the motive for their actions, but their illness instead. That thought is far more offensive to me than the idea of a protagonist with mental health issues.
Also as it has been said before the mentally ill are portrayed as violent individuals on TV and in movies all the time. Anyone else remember Identity?