I'm surprised Cannibal Holocaust isn't on his list of movies.

Still, his disclaimer won't stop anti-game morons like JT, nor narcissistic 'Culture-Warriors' like Bill O'Reilly, nor pro gun control morons like Hillary Clinton from shooting their mouths off.

Cue Jack Thompson saying the games did it in 5...4...3...2...

I think this is probably the best example I have seen that showcases how violent people seek out violent media.

Clearly, the movies he watches, music he listens to, and games that he plays didn't make him violent, they are just his outlet for exercising his already violent personality.

His list of favorite movies, (while including many "classics" that even I enjoy), are exclusively violent in nature. Yes, my favorite movies include We Were Soldiers and Shooter, but my all-time favorite movie is The Land Before Time. (You know you love it too...)

He also lists Mass/Serial Killers as an interest. Shouldn't someone have seen the signs?

"Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post."

This statement was subsequently retracted when it was found to have no basis in truth. Shouting at a wall to hear an echo doesn't make the wall a citable source.

Auvinen here provides a convenient list of everything he likes. Why are the games the only ones that matter?

John Bruce is a lying lier as is very apparent by his letter to the Police Officers.

He lies about the goals and purpose of GTA. He lies about what motivated Dennis Moore. He lies about only CCing the letter to one other person.

John Bruce cannot stop lying. He is a pathological lying narccisist.

"…Don’t blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth!"

This pretty much sums it up. A hate filled man that decided that those he hated deserved to die, and wished to send that message to the world by following through on it himself. The problem is the person, not with what they seek out.

Broward County Deputy killing that Thompson refers to in his "letter". (I use the term loosely)

http://www.theledger.com/article/20071108/NEWS/711080534/1039

As you can see from the article, the incident had absolutely -nothing- to do with video games. Thompson, by forming that assumption, just proves that he is a severely mentally ill man.
AKA- A "Signal 20" is what we who work in Law Enforcement offices call it.

Though not Broward, I do work in Sheriff's Office and I deal with mail from the public. Wacky letters like Thompson's often get ignored. For obvious reasons.

@ Gryphon

I was always the top marksman in my Boy Scout troop growing up. I improved tremendously when I switched to my dominate eye.

I don't do much with guns other than target shoot on occsion. I would like to go hunting some time, but I don't own a gun.

Linking the murder of a deputy by a 40 year old man to videogames? Jack Thompson will exploit any tragedies truly deserving the title "Massacre Chaser". The depths to which he is willing to sink disgusts me. Jack Thompson is truly going to hell if he does not change.

@Dark Sovereign

I'll agree, with the following caveat: Weapons from different manufacturers will tend to reload differently. Further, different kinds of weapons reload differently, and weapons built for different circumstances will tend to reload differently. However, weapons built for the same kind of situation/purpose will tend to reload in similar fashion. Like an M-16 and an AK-47, both are assault rifles designed for military use. Both are made by different manufacturers, but they both tend to reload in a similar fashion. They clear jams differently though.

Going by the username Sturmgeist89, Auvinen posted a home-made film called "Jokela High School massacre 11/7/2007" on YouTube showing him pointing a gun and declaring himself a "social Darwinist" who would "eliminate all who I see unfit".

So:

- he knew how to differentiate between fantasy and reality
- he knew he was killing actual people
- he was using his personal philosophy to justify killing
- he used his marksmanship training from the gun club to help him kill

How is this games' fault again?

@Dark Sovereign

If anyone knows how to sue dead people, it would be Jonathan Lee Riches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Lee_Riches

@Mysticgamer

JT says he played Counter-Strike. The Washington Post's article originally was going to assert that claim, but it was pulled because there was no evidence of it whatsoever, the only game that ever had been identified as something the VT shooter played was Sonic.

This is a tad off topic, but the kid's understanding of philosophy is both contradictory and pathetic. As Jonwanker pointed out, existentialism is one of modernity's most ethical, empowering, and intresting philosophical theories. In an existential consideration of the world, theistic dogma that Hume and Nietzche demonstrated to be contradictory and metaphysically impossible is replaced by realizing that humans are the authors of their own destiny. One need not pray to mystical creatures for aid or blame society for their failures in most circumstances.

Nietzche, along with countless other ethical philosphers, have demonstrated why religious dogma cannot serve as a consistent, desirable, or sufficent form of moral or metaphysical theory. Virtually any action can (and will) be "morally" justified through the process selective interpretation. The "moral compass" people claim to gain through religion amounts to little more than an articulation of secular values that have been posited into law. Bibilical values and religious dogma then form about the values posited by society and offer dynamically different interpretations. If anything, kids today are discovering a painfully obvious fact of the world: religious dogma tends to be as artifical, superstitious, and absurd as the bronze age tribesman who dreamed up the creatures of religious fiction. Perhaps we focus on instilling religious virtue too much in this nation: in actuality, kids need to be exposed to a wide range of belief systems that advocate ethical behavior. The possibilities are endless, but I've managed to digress even further off the point...


The values that intrest him (freedom and truth) logically contradict his terrible actions. The kid does not even know what he is talking about when it comes to philosophical systems! Do not attack a philosophical system that you scarcely understand, let alone judge the system by the actions of a foolish child.

@thompson

this is a complete readout of this shooters youtube profile (quite long i might add):

"I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist.

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM! JUSTITIA SUUM CUIQUE DISTRIBUIT! SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!

I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.

You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.

I have had enough. I don't want to be part of this fucked up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.

Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can't alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.

I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don't blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don't blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don't blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks! "

now thompson, for once in your life why dont you just shut the fuck up and LISTEN to the reason of someone who was directly involved in this incident rather than trying to create a reason for him. obviously this guy was very messed up in the head, however even he states HIMSELF that what your trying to connect his actions to is irrelevant. why dont you take his words and accept them as the real reason for this and go back to living with your bullshit ideology under that rock you fit so well with.

and if you are so in-the-know on the subject of this guys reasoning and what influenced him to do such a thing, why dont you explain to us all which game will "train" you into thinking the way this guy thought? halo 3? manhunt 2? the sims? pokemon? i think everyone here would like to know what game caused this guy to go bonkers. because as we all know for a fact now, that if we can get it banned we can prevent this from ever happening again, right?

Nobody expects Monty Python!

CNN: He practiced sharp-shooting as a hobby at a shooting range in Finland, police said.

Needless to say there will still be people who say that his “training” in video games made him able to kill so efficiently.

Even though he comes right out and says "don't blame games" etc. for what he did (and in fact I'm glad that for once we get a guy who actually holds himself as responsible for his actions), it's still not going to shut up anti-game critics and especially you-know-who and keep them from assigning blame. To JT, he'll just use it as another example of how gamers are socio/psychopaths. That and his interests and philosophical ideaology (i.e. secular humanism) encompasses a lot of things that stand against JT as a Christian also doesn't help. :(

You can link Counter-Strike to millions of people. Chances are, one of those people will be crazy enough because of any other number of conditions (this guy was bullied at school, for example. Oh, and he read Nietzche, which rather messes you up). Because of it being widespread, CS can hardly be called a cause for this.

Videogames only exacerbate the aggressiveness of people who are already unable to distinguish reality from fantasy. They aren't the catalyst.

And, like the Robida case, there will be plenty of folks who will try to bury the large amounts of Nazi references and propaganda that he was into.

His comments, both YouTube and otherwise, show a clear and deep ingrained belief in bigotry and domination over others.

Of course, all we've seen so far is his recent life. He still had 18 years worth of life that we don't yet know about (and yes, I'm sure the abusers of tragedy will try to focus on one or two tiny things in his overall life while ignoring the rest).

Even limiting our arguments to his bigotry and the Nazi influence still doesn't paint the WHOLE picture of this guy. What various paths he followed to get to this point is just as important. Many are following, even in part, similar paths that are either taking them towards the same end or may be taking them down less violent paths, but still similar. Those differences, small or large, are a definite key that many so-called experts try to ignore while keeping the stereotypes and "profiles" alive.

Not everyone who has the same beliefs will come to commit the same actions. And that's what a lot of Massacre Chasers, Agenda Seekers, and Sensationalists ignore for whatever reason. Even we just simply call the guy crazy or insane. But there really is a lot more to it. Certainly more than any post or article can cover, but we still need to be aware of it and not simply think it just comes down to "crazy".

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Black Manta,
Actually, a number of school shooters have done the same. Even Eric and Dylan made a video saying not to blame their Parents or the music or other such for their actions.

But, as many have said, the Massacre chasers and Agenda Seekers ignore the WHOLE Truth for their own perverted, obscene goals.

NIghtwng2000
NW2K Software

Gotta give this guy a little credit, he was brave enough to hold all responsibility for his actions and not pass it on. But otherwise, he really needed help and i have no idea if he could have gotten it or not. It is sad though to see yet another mass-homicide in a school by a student. It kinda makes me wonder, have the system yet figured out the links between the mental stability, interests, and rough treatment that most shooters have? If so, they may finally be able to stop the things before they start by preventing bullying and administering therapy. (please, no drugs though unless seriously needed, dont need me to bring up the abuse of "miracle cure" drugs when none are needed argument).
@ BearDogg-X
Nice stuff there, good heavy evidence and support for the cause.
@ Bear

I do like the "Humanity is Overrated" shirt though. Even if it reeks of counterculture BS.

This guy was on 7chan talking about killing people, if memory serves. But like most people, everyone thought he was joking.

Another guy who pass to the dark side.

He same say it: Dont Blame Video Games.

See, the thing is, you rarely hear about when people actually DO catch this.

A bunch of guys on 4chan called the cops after this guy posted about using pipe bombs at school.
http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=191790

Another poor, disturbed individual. Another tragedy. And once again the media will jump on the bandwagon and discuss why he did what he did and who is to blame.

@ BearDogg-X

I love that second quote. Sums up my opinion of most media (and massacre chasers) in general.

Or "X trained them and demonstrated to them how to do it!"

@ BearDogg-X

Excellent quote.

@ApokalypseNow:

Because that would make sense, and the media wouldn't be able to make a frenzy out of it.

@Bloodharp
I can't really speak for the Finnish school system but at least here in the U.S the mental health system in terms of college is kind of hit and miss. Part of it is that privacy laws prevent disclosure in allot of cases even to parents unless the child (over 18) gives there consent, so even if schools are trying to get mental help for a student parents might not be aware of it.
Also mental health services are also kind of hit and miss depending on the size of the university and surrounding area. So the health services can be good or bad dependent.

As for drugs, at least in my experience (only as a patient) once you get into more sever mental illness it get fairly easy to tell if you need drugs or not, the bigger problem is what drugs work the best with the least side effects and at what dosages. I was lucky I had (he's since passed away) an awesome psychiatrist that got a really good combo of drugs for my depression and anxiety early on, so I could actually talk to people. Again though that's a matter of finding a therapist and psychiatrist (if needed) that fit you. I've gone through 4 therapists before finding one I could work with.

Still though the mental health aspect will of course be ignored by everyone over here because that doesn't bring in ratings or sell newspapers.

Looks like my hopes of this incident being scapegoat-free like the SuccessTech shooting in Cleveland were wasted.

Back when GP still used the LJ format, someone (I can't remember whom), said it best when mentioning media coverage of these events.

'Sources say his favorite games were BF2 and CounterStrike.'

'These sources also say his favorite cerals were Captain Crunch and Fruit Loops'

"Once all the public fear of video games is over, both statements will be treated as equally irrelevant."

Janarius,
I think the final quote of Beardogg's post is the most significant. I suspect that that quote is the most true of all such individuals as this one. It's not that he sympathizes, but rather understands, in his own way, that they all have feelings which they feel they can't express for one reason or another. Very similar to the old "children should be seen and not heard". A lot of young folks feel angry, for a variety of reasons, and even expressing that anger verbally by actually saying WHY they are angry, comes off as a threat and they end up getting arrested or shoved into mental institutions or even ostracized for their thoughts. Even HE said he bottled up and spoke to no one about his feelings.

The moment people hear "I feel pissed", police are called, schools are locked down, and letters go to anyone and everyone about the evils of "pop culture". Nobody bothers to listen, let alone give a crap, as to WHY the person feels pissed. Yeah, we don't like his Neo-Nazi beliefs. Ok, so how did he get to the point of wanting to follow the Neo-Nazi beliefs?

We talk about the LaRouches and how they are a cult sucking young people in, brainwashing them with a line and that they can't argue their case beyond that line when counterarguments are made. But not everyone is like that. Many followers of the Neo-Nazi party blindly follow one another, ignoring, because of brainwashing, any counterarguments. Was this kid the same way? Or did anyone even TRY to counterargue him? The moment people heard his beliefs, did they merely threaten to call the police? Or did they try to intelligently argue against his arguments first?

A lot of young people have recently heard plenty of "Oh my gosh! They said how they feel now they are being arrested or suspended! I need to bottle up my own feelings and beliefs too!"

Children should be seen and not heard.

Yup, congratulations to soceity. Hurry up and blame "pop culture" before people realize where some of the REAL problems started.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Good one Beardogg.

I am very curious as to how the media and anti-game people/groups will address his admission that movies/music/games are not to blame.

My gut says they will say he didn't know what he was talking about because he was in a hyper-reality state and not making clear decisions.

Even though this guy took responsibility himself, that will be stripped out of the equation.

inb4jacko!

this kid does look troubled, even kinda emo in a way

it seems he likes violent movies and music more than violent videogames. (battlefront 2 ain't that violent/bloody)

guess this is proof that there are other factors besides video games that could possibly cause some troubled kid like him to go on a shooting spree.

Yikes, judging by his media interests, this kid had a bleak look on life. Existentialism?

I'm sure some idiots will jump on the school map thing, even though it was apparently not made by the killer. You map what's familiar. If I was any good at modding, I would have mapped my university's engineering & agriculture buildings. Eng is a maze of small short hallways, and Ag is a series of hallways all surrounding an 8-story atrium. With both connected via outside paths and skywalks.

He probably liked 2 Live Crew, too.

"Yup, congratulations to soceity. Hurry up and blame “pop culture” before people realize where some of the REAL problems started. "

*grin* Mr. Nightwng2000, you win the Internet today.

I should have that printed and framed. In bright neon letters so dumbasses will read it.

According to his YouTube account (before it got suspended) he is a clear supporter of Stalin. Video Games aside, forget about the music he listens to, since it's irrelevant as well. I know a few people that listen to the bands listed above, my brother included. And interesting, some ancient Greek stuff as well. Ironic since recently Thompson mentioned the Greeks in defining art. Not that I blame the Greeks but it's just a strange coincidence.

If anything, non-fiction political works would have a bigger influence on his way of thinking.

"And that’s really going to stop people from citing them…"

Aren't there rules keeping legit journalists from acting like "scoopers" for supermarket tabloids?

There was also another convicted criminal that said "don't blame games" after he appeared in court a few years back. Don't know exactly what happened to him...

I dont think JT will blame this on videogames because Battlefield 2 is a T game that represents soldiers (that's the important part) killing enemy soldiers. People in America generally have a high respect for soldiers, especially the people that support what JT says (conservative Christians). I hope JT has enough sense not to blame this one on videogames.

However, there's an old saying:
"Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself"

I dont think JT wants to be that man

@ Nightwing2000

I do remember that. But if I recall correctly, it wasn't widely reported at the time, unlike in this case, and it wasn't known until a few years after the fact.

I'm right with you on your earlier posts, but I don't think we really have to look that deeply. The common factor in the personalities of all these people is an extreme case of nihilism. They feel alone and angry, and that there is nothing in the world for them. They look around and see idiocy, hypocrisy and people asserting their superiority over others. They're sick of it and want to lash out. And because they've largely eschewed religion, they probably don't realize the value of human life; believing as some extreme secularists and atheists do that humans aren't really that much different from animals (Which is true to a point. There are key differences, however). And because they're still relatively young and blinded by anger, they haven't thought through the consequences of their actions. If video games contributed anything at all, it's that they merely fed and reinforced these individuals disregard for for human life. But I have to stress, these people were alredy disturbed well beforehand.

I think that's also why all of them commit suicide later, as the consequences of their actions haven't hit them until after the fact. They realize what they've done and, realizing that their life is totally screwed now, see no other way out and kill themselves. That or they know beforehand what they will do will totally mess up their lives and are prepared for it later. This kind of mental preparedness to die seems much like the mindset of a suicide bomber, minus the faith aspect of course.

Chris Cornell actually wrote a song that tried to address what makes people go out and do these things, it's called "No Such Thing." Check it out.

And this is really what it's all about. This has not been about video games and never was, at least not with JT. It's his belief our so-called "Godless society" and what it stands for that he believes breeds people like this. And it's also why he continually goes around saying he's persecuted for his faith because he sees his religion as under attack by it. Remember what he said about the Metalgearsolid.org suicide? "You can fill your heart with things of God and things not of God." So according to him and people of his ilk, living a secular lifestyle is what creates these people. That's why he hates us too, becuase he sees us as like them and makes no distinction.

Like I said, I used to be religous myself. I was born into a Catholic family that later converted to Episcopalianism. In my teens I became "Born Again" and ran around with Young Life and Campus Crusade for Christ for a time. Then one day I woke up and realized that it didn't fit in with how what I had experienced of the world worked. It was limiting me to other points of view that might be better, and it was making me look like a narrow-minded asshole. When I realized that, I walked away and never looked back, and now I live a lifestyle that I think is more honest with who I am.

If religion left me with anything at all, it was a moral compass, which those people apparently didn't have. The core concept of Christianity as I understand it is, "Be a good person. Dont be an asshole." In some ways then, I consder myself to be more "Christian" than what JT and others like him profess to be.

...of course the media will spend a lot more time concentrating on the fact that Saw and NBK are on his movie list and ignore House and Bond. As ever, this is a simply list of a typical teenager's movie, TV, book and music interests with a few anomolies (a strong interest in Nietsche, death metal) that point towards particularly violent thoughts and feelings of alienation and superiority over the rest of humanity.

We should be looking over his profile as a whole - an 18 year old who lists his primary interests as guns, BSDM, serial killers and existentialism clearly is not a balance individual with society's interests at heart. With this being Finland, hopefully some meaningful debate will take place, but I doubt much of it will filter back to the media whores in the US.

@ Skylar -

"He also lists Mass/Serial Killers as an interest. Shouldn’t someone have seen the signs?'

On it's own that doesn't mean much, how many millions of non-murderous people have an interest in Jack the Ripper? (Speaking of whom, I don't remember any prostitute-killing Grand Theft Auto in those days...)

When put with all the rest of it though you clearly have a person with a very screwed view of the world, who was already like he was before all the violent media. No, it can't have helped, but almost everything I watch or play is violent, I suppose you could consider me depressed and I have some unpopular views on the world in general, and I don't seem to have shot anyone lately.

If and when JT decides to have a go at this one, it seems clear to me that all of the other influences are VERY OBVIOUSLY at LEAST as much to blame as games, and so his 'single out the games' tactic is even less justified than usual. But hey, surely we expect that by now?

Hang on, JT's posted above, and he didn't seem to have an air about him suggesting he's just won the massacre lottery. This can't be right, surely? He didn't even actually mention this particular incident... (can he be disciplined for spamming by any chance then??)

"Weighted Companion Cube Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 9:54 am

You can link Counter-Strike to millions of people. Chances are, one of those people will be crazy enough because of any other number of conditions (this guy was bullied at school, for example. Oh, and he read Nietzche, which rather messes you up). Because of it being widespread, CS can hardly be called a cause for this.

Videogames only exacerbate the aggressiveness of people who are already unable to distinguish reality from fantasy. They aren’t the catalyst.
"

One can say that about media/fantasy and life, its not that they make people crazy its that crazy people are already crazy.

Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post

Do you have a link to back this up? This was retracted. Why must you spew your hate and lies here?

@ jack thompson, attorney

Virginia Tech's shooter DIDN'T "train" on Counterstrike. The Washington Post withdrew that comment.

@JT

Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post.

Yeah, 4 YEARS previously, in high school. Lie through omission, you love doing that, don't you?

The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt.

And I'm sure the 2 gun clubs he attended regularly gave him no training at all... over the 12 months he attended them while he perfected his marksmanship... /rolleyes or the fact that he worshiped the Columbine boys. But hey, Columbine was caused by Doom right? So VG are still to blame!

Unfortunately the profile offered above likely only scratches the surface of how disturbed this person was. Remove the video games, guns, movies, etc. and the person will be equally disturbed.

Jack might have gone to law school but he has a flawed understanding of sampling and statistics. Ask any person in a video games store if they are criminals and you might get a few. Ask any 18-30 year old in a remand court if they ever played a video game and you will likely get close to 100%. But the correlation with video games has nothing to do with the criminal behavior - it simply means that members of that age group have played a video game.

I don't ask this to be insulting, I'm honestly and genuinly confused as to how you would you go about preventing this if you had the power.

You are, as always, a snake and a liar.

@Austin:
Fixing your post... :P

@Weighted Companion Cube
Thanks man, kind of scatter brained right now, my dog is gnawing on what was, at one point, a 92USD pair of combat boots.

MY 92USD pair of combat boots.

Jack,
Shut the hell up.

Thanks and goodbye

everything's alreaddy been said here, gg everyone.

@Scuzz:

Why does it matter if he knows your real name? While I've posted with my real name before (before changing it to WCC), who cares if Jack knows your name?

Oh no, he might call you a coward. Say it isn't so!

Don't give him an inch. Just continue to refute his baseless claims, and don't think you have to give him anything. That's a sign of weakness, man.

There was a news article on TV about this last night (here in holland), the funny thing was.. Not 10 seconds after i said: "Wanna bet they're gonna blame videogames?" they "anouced" he played alot of World of Warcraft.

Strange that there was no mention of WoW here..

@ Scuzz and WCC

About giving your real name to John Bruce, he doesn't really care. The fact that people post under aliases and he posts his real name is his way of feeling superior to us "kiddies."

I have posted my real name and personal web site on all my posts from the beginning and he has done nothing. It actually took a year of posting and refuting him, to even get him to notice me. So it is not important. I think I might have gotten his attention sooner had I posted under an alias.

I'm an existentialist atheist and I don't particularly have any ill will directed at the whole of humanity, nor do I feel any need to inflict violence on others. And though I'm a secular humanist that doesn't make me value human life any less than a religious person. I think that blaming existentialism, secular humanism and atheist is just as incredibly short-sighted as blaming video games. The kid obviously had a lot of rage and anger and pain built up and it poisoned his mind. If anything, I think a lack of socialization, outcast status, an inability to openly speak about his problems and possibly mental defect have the most to do with this terrible tragedy.

@JT

Thats nice, except not only did the Washington Post remove and admit they removed that bit because there wasn't any evidence to support the notion that Cho played Counter-Strike, the official findings revealed that the only video game he's ever played was "Sonic the Hedgehog".

You oughta meet LaRouche sometime and talk about the big government + video game company conspiracy to destroy you all. Unless of course you want to want to make some insinuations that Sonic is what turned PERFECTLY METALLY HEALTHY Cho into a psychotic killer.

Jack:

"Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post."

Just because you repeat it, doesn't make it so. They pulled that part of the article because it was bulls**t. People are entitled to correct their mistakes. I believe the Florida BAR are in the process of doing just that...

@Nightwing's first post:
I agree. It is common for people to latch onto a particular facet of a killer and call that the main cause, when the truth is that no one interest or life experience of a person is the full cause. Actions such as this are a combination of the person's personality, his life experiences, and his beliefs.

@Blackmanta
A person can believe that people are little different than animals and still respect the lives of other humans. I do, in fact. However, I believe that all life is precious, from the lowest germ or bug to the largest whale or fish. Last of all, don't forget that religion has been used as an excuse for killing people. The religions teachings aren't usually the cause, though.

"It would be unfair and unwise to suggest that games are at fault"

You know what happens next Dennis..

@Jack Thompson

"Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post."

Yet again, you fail to realise that the connection to the shootings was false.

"The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt."

See above rebuttal.

"Gee, if I run toward massacres"

Which, as we all know, you do. You just happen to bring a camera crew and your own little newshour on FOX.

"then Dennis McCauley runs from them and the facts around them"

Funny, I find that Dennis McCauley reports on them, if there is a connection to video games suggested, as there is here.

"I’m trying to stop them."

You're doing a very good job. Keep it up!

"Dennis couldn’t care less."

As a good friend of mine would say; Untr00th!

@JT

Cho, the killer at Vtech, did NOT have Counterstrike on his computer. that's just a fabrication YOU made up.

and how DARE you say that you are trying to stop massacres. you are doing nothing more than trying to be a censor, and failing at that.

how dare you say that you are trying to stop these kinds of deaths when all you do is fingerpoint and grandstand.

OK, look at his interests on his profile. This guy is SERIOUSLY ****ed up. There are serious mental health problems with this guy and this quite clearly is not related to video games.

@Werrick
Are you saying that, in real life, I can't press X to reload?

Cripes, what a sick mind. Oh, this applies to both our shooter and JT.

Jack, you're one to say that people could care less about the facts. Of course, YOU don't, because YOU, being a massacre-chasing lunatic, are MAKING THEM UP.

Seriously, there is nothing to support your claims. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Jack, you are an idiot.

First, the Washington Post retracted the statement about Counter-Strike. Early on in events there is a sort of fog of war and things get confused. If you have actually read the Washington Post you would see that Cho had not played any video games since early on in high school. And even then they were of the nonviolent nature such as Sonic the Hedgehog.

Secondly, training on counter-strike? Are you fucking joking? No, I'm sorry. Anyone who uses Counter-Strike or any other such game to try and hone real life skill because of it is in for quite a surprise. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually lost skill if they tried to apply thier counter-strike learning to real life.

"Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post. The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt."

Oh, you mean that statement that the Washington Post retracted from their article? Since you are obviously unfamiliar with the concept, allow me to explain.

A retraction is what a credible source does when they realize that they have receive less-than-credible information and have posted it before the facts were verified. It's basically their way of saying they were wrong, and it's what smart organizations do, which is why I'm sure the concept eludes you.

Before the federal investigation was even complete, the Post retracted that statement. The investigation and eyewitness testimony from his own roommates only serve to provide concrete evidence that Cho did not, in fact, train on Counter-Strike.

Of course, you don't need facts, right? You're a lawyer! It's your job to lie for a living! Keep chasin' those tragedies, Jacky Boy!

Guys, Jack never said the Post's reporting was accurate. He just said they reported it. Which they did, briefly, before it was retracted and never picked up by any other media outlet.

These are the sorts of misleading statements that Jack will eventually be sent to Hell for, because he makes them purely to supplement his own profits in TV appearances.

"Can’t we accept in a world of hatred that someone who can do this can also be entirely sane?"


No, I can't accept that he was totally sane.

Sane people don't do what he did. Sure there are sane people who are mad at the world. But only someone lacking in some sort of mental component actually act on it. I just think perhaps you have a biased view of mental illness.

Is it odd that I share many of his interests, yet I would never shoot up my old high school, although my friends and I were very bitter towards the "jocks"?

Crazy I say, just crazy...

Jack, you had no proof that Cho played Counter strike. The only "evidence" you had was that he used to play that game in high school and that you think that other, completely unrelated massacres were also caused by video games. You mentioned yourself that when his roommate looked on the screen, he saw that he was doing school work.

I doubt that this was caused by a media influence and even if it was, there are many other possibilities to what caused it when you look at the list of music and films. He said himself that it wasn't because of any sort of media. Ok, seeing that he just killed a bunch of people, he might not have been telling the truth. He probably was telling the truth though or he could have just been mentally ill in some way.

MEDIAWATCH:

UK Newspapers The Daily Mail and The Sun do not mention games in their stories today, both of whom dedicated the vast majority of a page to the story.

However, the latter do have some issue with some force-feedback vest some company is hawking and an anti-gun group are upset about, but it's a very small story.

/b

@JT
If your going to criticize video games, shouldn't you actually play them once in a while? You know, just to get some first hand experience with the media you claim to be intimately familiar with?

@Jack

Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post. The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt.

Whoh, whoh, whoh,

I thought the Germans had some of the strictest government regulation of video games in the world. You're telling me that despite heavy government involvement, they're still having problems? Interesting.

@Gavin: I would argue that 'sane' people appreciate that life is a precious thing and that the destruction of life is not something to be done lightly. Even people in the police and military usually share this viewpoint - "Think not upon who you are killing, but upon who you are saving." Regardless of what music he liked, what games he liked, anything like that, the fact that he could wipe out 8 people - who he probably scarcely knew and who likely had not wronged him at all - in what seems like nothing more than a bout of teen angst is indicative to me that he wasn't entirely right.

I never understood how clicking a mouse trained one to fire a weapon.

We all know the US Army used America's Army as a recruiting tool. I think if Jack wanted to truly prove a link between video games and weapons proficiency (if Counter-Strike, et. al., are truly "training simulations"), he would get records from the DOD on which recruits came to the Army with experience in or due to that game (or other first-person shooters) and compare their basic training results and competency reviews (I'm sure I'm mincing terms here, don't fillet me military types!) to some control group.

Certainly if the games are effecting training simulations then there will be a correlation between hours spent gaming and combat efficiency.

But does Jack have the cash to commission the study?

@Myrpok

Yup, that's the chorus alright. Guess I always took it as being about Kaptain K's prowess (somewhere in the verse he calls himself a "monolithic juggernaut", which cracks me up), but you got a point.

Still a far cry from any actual violence! If it weren't for the fact people were killed over this, I'd be laughing.

I've asked this before, and JT avoided the question, so here it is again:

You've said before that you don't care if gamers die (like GamerDad). Odds are several of the people killed here were gamers. Does that not make this event a good thing?

Explain that one to your clients, Jack.

@Jack

If video games have any influence, it is minimal and would be replaced by something else in the mind of the violent person should video games no longer exist.

You are clearly not trying to stop anything. You are trying to push your own agenda for profit and self aggrandizement, which is the opposite of what the Bible says a Christian should be.

Love your neighbor (Strauss Zelnick, Dennis, and all of us) as yourself, Jack.

The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt.

German already has very strict laws on videogame sales and Robert Steinhäuser was 19. Jacko says that he doesn't want to ban the games only keep people under 18 from playing them. So what would he have them do?

Jack Thompson. I have linked you many times to the official report on V-Tech which said Cho had no link to video games other than Sonic the Hedgehog as a child. Why do you choose to ignore the facts and get yourself into the mess you are in with the Florida bar.

If you weren't such a blatant out and out liar, you might get somewhere with your crusade. You don't, because you can't help the fallacies.

You're a self obsessed ambulance chasing scumbag. You really are.

Oh he's not being quiet. See the last post. He's quite loud.

It's been a few hours since Jack Thompson posted a comment on this issue.

Where is he?

Of course we all know, he is getting all over the media with letters and interviews saying that the T rated video game did all of this.

If there was no M rated games, he would go after T rated games, if there was no T rated games, he would go after Super Mario Galaxy claiming it is to violent because of shooting fire balls and jumping on enemies.

People like Jack will always look at nonsense rather than the big picture.

This only goes to prove my point about Jack Thompson's crusade on video games: it is unjustifiably directed at games as the sole medium by which people generate aggression and thus commit massacres.

The killer himself has countered your argument. If you can believe what he wrote, then you would see that he acted of his own volition.

If you wish to ignore his admission, then you would do well to see his other interests BESIDES games: violent, gory movies; dark humor; angry, aggressive music; books on dystopian societies; bondage; "shooting"; and, if I'm not mistaken, it would appear to me that he NAMED HIS GUN. He called himself a "natural selector", and ranted about a "one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world".

This was obviously a person who did not have the same Christian values you claim to uphold, Mr. Thompson, neither before nor after CS and BF2. Find me the proof that playing Counterstrike ALONE made him become interested in guns, bondange, heavy metal, death, existentialism, dystopia, toppling governments and thinking he was the right hand of evolution.

I submit, Thompson, that if you had your way and violent games never existed in the world, that this man still would have committed mass murder. In fact, I would venture to say that he may have committed it SOONER, though I doubt it. Clearly he did not act out of heightened or trained aggression, but a clear intent to kill for completely sane reasons, despite those reasons being against the social norm.

In the end, Thompson, I will ask this of you again: if you're going to attack one medium of entertainment for the ills of society, you might as well attack ALL OF THEM, and equally so. Your argument that Counterstrike ALONE made him kill people holds absolutely no water.

Now, I know you like to pick fights over massacres you think are caused by games, but I would advise you to back off of this one. You are out of your depth, sir.

This is gonna be a lengthy one folks, so stick with me, ITS ANOTHER ROUND OF DECODING JACK THOMPSON'S BULLSHIT!

This one goes out to anyone who's been used by Jack Thompson in an attempt to forward his sick agenda.

1. Dear Sheriff Lamberti:

I extend to you and everyone in your Department my condolences for your loss that comes with the latest murder of a Broward Sheriff’s Deputy, this time Deputy Paul Rein.

YOU ASSHOLE. THIS MAN DIED WHILE TRANSPORTING A PRISONER, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES. YOU SICK, SICK SON OF A BITCH.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-down/1462529/
To Paul Rein's family and friends; at 76, it would appear that Paul Rein was more of a man than most at the age of 20, and we thank him deeply for his service.

2. I should like to suggest that there is something your Department can do to reduce what will otherwise be a mounting body count of law enforcement officers killed throughout Florida and the nation.

This is more of Jack Thompson just being a complete ass-hat. He's pretending to care, and really just stepping all over Paul Rein's grave.

3. A recent Time magazine article looked at the shocking increase in murders of police officers. What used to be a taboo is now becoming common. Note the below comment therein by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman who spends more than 300 days a year training law enforcement and military personnel:
“Other experts and activists cite the desensitizing effect of popular culture, most notably violent video games, as a key reason that more young people have no compunction about opening fire on a man or woman in uniform. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, author of On Combat and On Killing [nominated for a Pulitzer Prize], who trains the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, subscribes to that controversial notion. Grossman relates how officers raiding methamphetamine labs and gang hangouts often find violent video games left behind. ‘Every time they take down a gang house, there’s always one thing that will always be there,’ Grossman says. ‘It’s a video game. The video games are their newspaper, their television, their all-consuming narrative. And their video games are all cop-killer, criminal simulators.’” http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1666750,00.html

Col. Grossman is blaming violence that has been around since prohibition on videogames, which is completely idiotic (although I hear Al Capone play Grand Theft Ford).

3.The video game industry is selling these cop-killing games to kids, and it brags that adults well into their forties are playing these violent games as well.

Actually, it's selling the games to parents who let their kids play it, which would be the fault of the parents. Also, the average age of a gamer is 27. Look at some fucking statistics.

4. Unfortunately, I predicted this video game-linked cop-killing phenomenon two years ago when I appeared on CBS’ 60 Minutes. I represent three cops’ families whose loved ones were gunned down by an Alabama teen, with no criminal record, who killed them by wresting the arresting officer’s gun from him while in custody in the police station. This teen replicated precisely that specific scenario to grab the gun and kill the officers that is in the Grand Theft Auto: Vice City cop-killing game he had played up to sixteen hours a day. He was able to pull off this Houdini act because he had done it before in virtual reality.

You're right Jack. The alabam teen was able to grab an officer's gun because he played video-games. Nevermind the fact that the officers had let their guard down. Nope, he could flawlessly perform these acts because he's a gamer. Oh, but aren't we all out-of-shape fatasses with heart conditions?

Hey Jack, we should go for a run. 6 miles, my morning routine. Wanna come?

5. This is the same way in which Deputy Rein was killed yesterday with a shot to the head. By the way, in this cop-killing simulation game made and distributed throughout Florida by Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., of New York, the player gets extra points for shots to the head. I have met with Take-Two’s Chairman, Strauss Zelnick, who will not relent in his company’s reckless distribution of these products. Zelnick’s Grand Theft Auto IV is due out in a few months. It promises to be the most violent cop-killing simulation game ever.

Deputy Rein was killed by a prisoner he was transporting; there is no proof that the prisoner ever played GTA, let alone any game. And I want to know where you get the AUDACITY to use this man's death for your personal agenda. How in God's name do you sleep at night?

6. After my above-note appearance on 60 Minutes, I have addressed law enforcement officers in Miami-Dade County about the commercial targeting of them by cop-killing simulation games, most notably GTA. I even wrote an article that appeared in the Florida Police Benevolent Association’s regular publication at the time. Public officials here in Florida have done absolutely nothing about the fact that a significant sector of the violent video game industry has made billions of dollars by painting bulls-eyes on the backs of our law enforcement officers. Bills in the Florida legislature to do something about this commercial targeting of cops have died in committees. This is unacceptable. It is outrageous. There has been no leadership in Tallahassee on this. Possibly Governor Crist, with whom I am copying this letter, who appointed you, will fill that vacuum.

This is just him pissing and moaning because nobody listens to what he says. This whole thing is idiotic.

7. I strongly encourage you, on behalf not only of your Department but on behalf of all law enforcement personnel in this state and around the country, to speak out about the impropriety of the video game industry’s targeting of law enforcement officers for death by the distribution of cop-killing simulators to teens and adults alike. On the aforementioned 60 Minutes piece, Ed Bradley reported an Oakland car theft gang that was using Grand Theft Auto as a carjacking simulator. Citizens were randomly shot by the gang, as in the game. Said one perp: “We played the game by day and lived the game by night.”

You're right. Those gang members owned up to playing GTA, which made them steal a car with the Triangle Button and then drive it with an analog joystick.

Oh wait, no it didn't. These gang members are just trying to get off light for being complete assholes.

8. I have four experts who have testified before Congress about the causal link between these hyperviolent games and murders. One of them is the aforementioned Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. He and I and others stand ready to help in this regard.

Honestly Jack, you need to go fuck yourself. You aren't here to 'help' anyone except yourself.

Oh and Col. Grossman? You are a piss-poor example of a soldier and a man.

Regards, Jack Thompson

Copies: John Rivera, PBA President
Governor Charlie Crist
Media


I will, by the way, be sending copies of this to everyone listed.


You are, as always, a liar and a snake

Austin D. Lewis

Man, I don't think Jack's going to answer my question. Too bad so sad. It's sort of been saturated by more vicious, patronizing question that Jack would probably rather anwer since dealing with more wrathful gamers makes him more vindicated.

Not to say those who post and rip Jack's comments apart are wrong in doing so. Quite the opposite. It's just that he feeds off the angry comments that rebuke thompson. He never actually takes our refutations seriously, he only sees it as telling on the part of the gaming community that we're so eager to disprove him. I just wish we could steer away from disproving Jack, it's too easy and everyone does it.

I don't think we should be so angry about what he says, he doesn't say the things he does to start a lively debate, he does it to stir up the hornet's nest and he thinks he's all the braver for doing so.

Seriously, no one else needs to bring up the Washington Post thing. He gets, and probably doesn't care

@jack thompson, attorney


"Counter-strike was played by V-Tech’s massacrist, Cho, according to the Washington Post."

You really are a parasitic lamprey aren't you? You cling to your fabricated evidence until it is no longer useful to you, and no matter how much of you they cut off you won't let go.

"The author of the worst school massacre in Europe was Robert Steinhaeuser, who trained on Counter-strike, according to German officials in Erfurt."

You either just proved that you don't read when it doesn't suit you or can't due to your own mental disorders

"Gee, if I run toward massacres, then Dennis McCauley runs from them and the facts around them. I’m trying to stop them. Dennis couldn’t care less."

If Mr McCauley couldn't care less he wouldn't be reporting them. and he certainly wouldn't be getting excited and seeing dollar signs every time he sees the words "shooter" and "school" in a news article.

Oh, woops, described you, sorry.

I look at the profile and I see someone who had a strong distaste for humanity. Someone who wanted to end all existence on Earth, saying that human beings, as a whole, are scum.

Video Games, last time I checked, DON'T TEACH THAT!

When was there ever a video game that portrayed the human race as a whole as vile, destructive, evil, sinister, cruel, and malicious?

Sure there are violent games, but violent games don't teach a hatred for humanity.

No, that belief was formed from a variety of contributing factors, going beyond media input via books, music, television, movies, etc.

For Jack to think that games are responsible for this kind of thought is pure, untampered, IDIOCY!

Something I'm thinking of telling him in an e-mail.

I would wager that if everyone who dislikes Thompson went to his homepage, got his e-mail, and wrote to him the simple message:

"You are an Idiot"

that it would first infuiriate him and then slowly, but surely, get the message to sink in.

It would be a great campaign. A movement to inform Jack Thompson of his blatant retardation. It would not be spam since it would only be one e-mail per person, but a letter writing campaign to inform Jack Thompson that he is

definitively

an idiot.

And if he denies and refuses after 100, 1000, or 1,000,000 separate e-mails each from a unique individual, at least it will show that there is a lot of people that hate him.

Hate him and think he's a moron.

I'd like to see this movement happen.

~Otaku-Man

@austin lewis

"You are, as always, a liar and a snake"

thats an insult to snakes around the world, you should feel ashamed of yourself mister.

@OtakuMan

If anything, video games where humanity may be wiped out has you saving them, or trying to.

And if it does have you committing genocide, that is a choice given to you by the game and that is never forced upon the player. And if humanity is portrayed in that light it is never as a whole, but an isolated act by a person in command.

If the previous Grand Theft Auto games trained people to kill cops, then wouldn't GTA IV, which features a hit on a game hating lawyer, train people to kill Thompson?

@Dave: I share your pain. I keep campaigning to have JT's irrelevant posts deleted, or to not clear them in the first place (since they get stuck in the filters and have to be manually cleared.) I understand that this would be a significant burden on Dennis, whose job isn't to babysit the threads here.
I used to feel that he should be allowed to continue posting because he can, and occasionally does, have something useful to add to the subject. But lately he's been less and less relevant, and I think the few times he is on topic are just good luck in that his rant of the day happens to match the story of the day. And I find myself less and less compelled to defend his right to be a nuisance here.

"I have met with Take-Two’s Chairman, Strauss Zelnick, who will not relent in his company’s reckless distribution of these products."

Hey Jack,

You seem to always blame video games for everything. Cause Kids play them. But what about other things that alot of kids get there hands on. Seems like they are all distrubuting things in wreckless ways.

How about the movie industry who makes movies like saw and hostel. They get distributed.

Or we can blame the companies that sell alcohol. Cause people drink and then drive. And then get into accidents. And many underage kids drink.

Blame the Cigeratte companies. They are the leading cause for cancer. Kids smoke.

Or you can blame the food companies for making so much junk food. The kids get fat on the stuff.

Kids can get there hands on pretty much anything. Its out there. I used to read my dads hustler collection. During school at around 7th grade. My friends would be drinking and smoking pot. I refused to do anything like that. But face the fact that kids can get stuff like that pretty easily.

These people made a choice to hurt and kill other people. They know its wrong. But they do it to satisfy some personal need or to fulfill the hate that is inside them. And chances are they shot and practiced with guns.

I loved the movie the matrix. But even if they are getting these things downloaded into there heads by virtual reality. You still need to practice in real life to be any good at it. Or you have to be in shape.

Yeah the army may use things like these games in simulations. But before they trust them with anything they make sure they have hands on experience with the planes, tanks or weapons.

So blame games as the sole source of all evil. But there are hundreds of different things out there that cause people to go nuts.

I think the nice thing about this is that JT gets all riled up about this sort of thing. It's great. You know, his tail starts wagging, he piddles on the floor a bit -- he's excited.

Yet we get to just sit back, relax, and make fun of him. You want interactive entertainment? This is it! This sort of thing makes my work day that much more bearable...I get the sense of knowing that there's a total idiot down in Miami who is so out of touch with reality, that he has nothing better to do than come to this site on a masochistic whim, and proceed to be belittled by the very people he hates.

Ah...I'm so relaxed right now...

So If Mr Thompson is correct then culture is to blame for the rise and cop killings and not the higher availability and use of automatic weapons that have flooded the streets since the automatic weapon ban was never renewed. No i guess that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Shooters media package with manifesto + pictures: http://rapidshare.com/files/68079752/pek-school.zip

YouTube rips... :
http://rapidshare.com/files/68069812/YouTube-rips_-_Pekka-Eric_Auvinen__...

What the hell? You're now blaming Take Two for all the world's evils?

"Dear cops, sorry to hear one of you got killed recently. Did you know it was because of video games? Please join me in my quest to shut down Take Two. Here is an overlong demagogue on why gamers blew up the world trade centre. Love, JT."

Here on Earth we don't write letters like that.

You all need to treat him like a child. He is an upset child looking for attention and you are all gladly giving it to him. Stop referring to him as a person. Stop replying to his posts. Stop everything that involves Jack Thompson. He will go crazy and crazier the more you ignore him. Sooner or later one of two things will happen; he will realize that he's an idiot or go crazy and start killing people. But he doesn't play video games so I guess the second one wont happen.

Everyone needs to stop feeding his need to be the center of the gaming world and ignore everything he has so say or tries to do.

I live in Finland, and that tragic incident happened near to me, so I believe I am qualified to say to you Jack to fuck off and die.

@ Dakota Bob
That's the kind of stuff he wants to hear. He wants to know about everyone hatred of him and with that he's just going to blame video games for all the hatred in the world. They are the reason mankind started fighting each other... oh wait, no it's not. It's because we are natural violent..

@Soul

Responsibility for one's actions? No, nono! That's something Jack Thompson doesn't comprehend! Jack Thompson angry! Bill Gates, tear down this wall! Thompson smash! Thompson smash!

@Erik

I'm playing Legend of Zelda right now; maybe if I get a sword, I'll turn out to be a sword master like Link :P

@Death Heim

It's probably a bad sign that until you mentioned posts I thought you were talking about the shooter, not Jack.

Still, rather than treat him like a child, he should probably be treated like a stalker. Though the suggested response is pretty much the same as what you describe - cut off contact until they go crazy and either move on to something else, or self destruct.

If you want to prove your ideas Jack, this would be perfect, in fact you could even get police support or support from the 'bird' Colonel Grossman.

To repeat something I said on another posting:

Simply, I would like for a demonstration to be done with a teenager who has played GTA, Counter-Strike and/or Halo, but who also has NO REAL WORLD FIREARMS EXPERIENCE. (including paintball, pneumatic/spring pellet, or BB gun)

The demonstration would be simple, hand him an unloaded M9 Barreta Pistol (military or police issue, doesn’t matter much). Have him eject the empty magazine, pull the slid back to the locked position, put a second empty magazine in, release the slide, release the safety, and dry fire once. If said teen can do that in under 2 minutes then there ‘may’ be some weight to the argument. It also goes without saying that said teen CANNOT be instructed earlier on how to perform said acts, otherwise that would invalidate the purpose of the demostration.

FYI, that series of action takes a trained soldier or police officer less than 10 seconds to do, many times even faster when under fire.

Gauntlet has been thrown, who will pick it up and accept the challenge?

I'll take the challenge depending on the answer to this question: I've reloaded a bolt-action rifle before. Does that disqualify me?

And yes, I mean they'd have to actually be able to just *hit* the target.

@Xlorep

Standing, kneeling, or prone? Also will they have something to support the weapon on?

@Soul
He probably thinks we're angry at him and is proud of himself for it. I bet he wants a cookie.

This teen replicated precisely that specific scenario to grab the gun and kill the officers that is in the Grand Theft Auto: Vice City cop-killing game he had played up to sixteen hours a day. He was able to pull off this Houdini act because he had done it before in virtual reality.

LOL, ok...

Well first off - no, the 'game' isn't real, nor can you get away with the same things in real life, you can't take 15 bullets and then run to a fast food restaurant and be 'all ok'. nor can you take your car to the 'pay-n-spray' and be off the hook.

But, let's take into account Movies too..
How many movies have 'cop-killers' been portrayed in?

It's not like this is a concept of video games that never existed before. Almost any 'mobster' movie out there shows a cop or two being killed.

I play GTA - I don't kill cops, I wouldn't even think about killing another person, cop or not.

The guy in Texas - who killed all the students from the bell tower - which video game did he play?

The problem is - a lack of moral in society, drugged out parents who don't control their kids, a legal system that's more worried about making a buck and controlling people than seeking justice. What about the news media that goes shoving this down out throat daily?

They mention in the CNN article that he had "very strong opinions against society". Do you think that could well be a result of overbearing governments? Over controlling laws? A clear perception of 'in-justice' when you watch guilty people walk free because some greedy lawyer got them off? Or a pedophile getting 9 months probation because of some worthless judge?

Or is it video games? Which you think might stress a person more?

@GO

Not letting you near my Dragunov..

@BlackIce

Oooooo... a Dragonov? If it's as close to the Ak-47 as I think it is I can operate that thing blind folded.

Yes, that's called fake Thompson.

@ BlackIce

Nah, the military taught me that I have an exceptional aim, and for that reason alone I have a dislike for firearms. Basically, my aiming skills scare me.

@GO

Remember, you're better than they are.

@E.ZK

It's legal to own one. provided it's modified for single shot.

I want Jack out of here. He has nothing constructive to say, and merely forwards Dennis his "press releases". He is always chasing massacres, always blames videogames in spite of logic or evidence, and ALWAYS responds in Ad Hominem.
Dennis, I know there's a cycle that people will want him out, but then want him back; but his blaming of EVERY violent act on videogames makes him unworthy to even be ALLOWED on the internet.
GET. HIM. OUT.

@King James

Don't people get a great deal of their information from the Net now? If they do, then wouldn't they stop watching the news? Wouldn't that, in turn, cause the news to try and attract people by entertaining them instead of doing actual reporting?

@HillaryDuffGta

I'm sorry if this is out of line, but that post makes me wretch for some reason.

@XDH

All weapons reload differently, don't they?

@Hack

Going to hell? He's already there, he lives near Miami...

Sorry to anyone else who lives near Miami.

@HDG

Both. He's saying that GTA trains people to 1) kill cops with headshots and 2) take guns from police officers.

@HDG

Miang?

@HDG

I believe we can all relate similar experiences. I myself went nuts in Oblivion one day and attempted to kill every NPC I could.

@Boffo97 & SounDemon

I'm all for slinging him out, but it can't be done. He scrambles his IP Address.

@Jack
Show me one study that shows a causal link. One. Your favorite 2005 study doesn't show it, despite how much you wish it to - even its creators said as much after releasing it.

Dave Grossman's main claim is that the military use videogames to train so therefore they must make you into a killer.

The military also uses making your bed as part of their training which is why I never make my bed. I don't want to be turned into a killer.

@JT

Some people are F-ing crazy.

Games don't make people into Neo-Nazis.

Games can't train you beyond basic concepts.

Cho hadn't played Counter Strike for years, and the Washington Post retracted that story.

These are very simple, undisputable facts, laid out in single sentences. Do you deny them? If so, be VERY specific. If you fail to respond, you are a coward who has no ground to stand on. You have two hours.

Huh.
I play CS , like, everyday. And I'm fine.

@HDG

=]... =l... =[... O_o

You know i just thought about this after i noticed Monty python on his movie list...

Maybe if he had a way to get to castle anthrax all of this could of been avoided..after all who wouldnt want to go there....I'll take midget and crapper

Ok one more posts and then i'll wait a while to see if i get a response but question here...


"all works of Nietzsche"

Who is Nietzsche???

@ Fake Jack

You have even less of a life than the real Jack(ass). And that's pretty damn hard to tall. GO. AWAY.

@ Jackass, Massacre Chaser

I'm using the scroll wheel on my mouse to read the comments posted here, aswell as the click of the left mouse button to start typing this message. Both these actions are used to select and fire weapons in basically all FPS games, including Counterstrike, the "murder simulator" you think people who don't know the difference between fantasy and reality "train" on. Does that mean I'm training vicariously via Gamepolitcs, or the entire internet for that matter? Me being a gamer and all...

What I don't get is that we're basically on the same side here. None of us want adult games in the hands of a child. Hell, adult products of ALL FORMS should not be consumed my minors - WE ALL AGREE ON THAT!
Your crusade would be better managed if you made allies out of us instead of baiting many gamers into becoming the enemy. You want to demonize the gaming community merely to prove that you have been right all along, that providence guided you. Tear down the gold statue of yourself in your head, Jack. If you really want to succeed for the sake of humanity, try to do it the right way, not by alligning yourself with the gods.

I am looking forward to seeing what Jack Thompson would have to say about this school shooting on a news channel.

@Icehawk

Judas was a team killer in Halo.

Yes, its interesting to see that JT's back and chasing the ambulance of pain and suffering for his own quest for whatever it is he thinks he's trying to do. And yes, he's still using the same ol' "The V-Tech guy played CS even if there was no proof of a connection to what cause this" rhetoric.

As for fake thompson, eh, I don't like him. OG Thompson though was freakin' hilarious as hell though. I wonder what he's doing. He's probably hanging with the cast from "Caveman" while the writers are on strike.

@Hilaryduffgta

.are you on Ice cream and sardines...

Mmm..... Ice Cream and Sardines........... *drool*

All these years I've never said all that much in response to Jack but today I've become very concerned.

Dear Jack,

It seems you are suffering from a severe lack of oxygen reaching your brain, which as we know, can cause brain damage. Here's how you can resolve this problem you seem to suffer from regularly.

Step One: Regularly your remove head from your ass.
Step Two: Inhale and hold for about five seconds.
Step Three: Exhale.

Repeat steps two and three as needed, though it seems it might be too late..

Your friend,
DC/PHOENIXZERO

@Icehawk

I'll get on it. It might take me a while to read and figure out his books though, so give me a few years.

@dark

If anyone could figure out how to, JT would!

@HDG

I hope not. I'm a guy.

"My issue is: “stop the sales of mature games to kids under 17, with no parents around. You want my issue to be more than that. It’s not."

jack you said that in some other article on here and you say it all the time just about everywhere else. and with that, its pretty safe to say that you not only lie to other people, but you lie to yourself as well. which makes you even more pathetic. when you dont even know what your own agenda is, you know you have created a new level of stupid. its gotten to the point where i dont even know if responding to your "facts" is worth the effort anymore because you seem unable to recognize the most obvious things even when they are right in front of you, or worse, when they are pointed out and highlighted FOR you.

I have an idea, "let's blame the liberal literature 1984! Michael Moore reccomends it on his website and he's an evil liberal wiener! Oh, and the author is also a disgusting liberal wiener too!" That's what Bill O'Reilly would say, oy!

@JT

Re: Murders of Broward Sheriff Deputies and Other Law Enforcement Personnel

Sorry to hear your deputy was murdered by a handcuffed 40-year old bank robber while on his way to court. Clearly this was the fault of years of playing bank robbing simulators, 'breaking out of containment areas in police vans' simulators, wrestling simulators, and 'driving while handcuffed' simulators. I was on 60 minutes, I should know. I predicted this ever since I saw a magic trick performed in "The Sims". I knew then that a 40 year old would use his training from that and Grand Theft Auto to wrestle the gun out of an officers hands, and do a headshot, because we all know you only shoot people in the face if you're a hitman or gamer, not because you're in close proximity to them in a vehicle while trying to wrestle control of it... Anyway, games are evil. Hooah!

Jack, you're a twit.

Here is a song about JT. :)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/128010.html

@Dave

I do believe that that is the latest parody song from Sarcastic Gamer.

Hmm... he doesn't even look like a typical neonazi to me... just an angry, unbalanced kid with an obsession with violence. I have no idea what his problem was, but I doubt it was either games OR politics. He was clearly just attracted to aggressive imagery in both.

Jeez, the kid was a total continental! This is what happens when you expose kids to violent media, fragments of flawed philosophy, and a large stack of firearms. If only someone had taught him a positivistic, Sartreish, interpretation of existentialism, =(.

Oh my, I think I've found a direct metaphysical link between one of his hobbies and the school shooting:

"Guns (I love you Catherine)."

Funny, all if not most, of the other school shooters have expressed a similar fasination with firearms. If we are to blame one thing, I think firearms beat all other intrests in terms of applicability, consistency, and utility.

does thompson actually believe that if these games were to stop being made that the violence against law officers or anyone else would magically disappear? what does he really think will happen if violent video games ceased to exist? he acts like the removal of violent games in our society would be the solution to every problem we are dealing with as a race. i wouldnt be surprised if we see him say that halo 3 killed oj simpsons ex-wife and framed him for it or that video gamers are building weapons of mass destruction and are planning to take over the world. which is a real far out way of thinking to say the least. i

ts like he has been living under a rock for the past two decades and thinks that violence has only been around as long as videogames have been. so thompson, if you say that these games make kids murder, what do you propose will happen if they suddenly went away?

Jack,

I once told about you to my grand-mother once the news of that school shooting came, and after I was done, she simply said "He's an imbecile."

Your letter is SOOOO much like a simple scam (reminds me of parents who thought the Harry Potter teaches Satanism) that I think the sheriff will most likely throw it in the nearest recycle bin. Seriously, the sheriff and politicians don't need an incompetent soon-to be ex-lawyer who can only remember his name because every gamer and Florida lawyer is yelling it with anger.

I'm so glad that the Florida Bar don't have any illusion concerning you.