In Spain, Outrage over Strategy Game Based on 1936 Civil War

I'm getting tired of people like "daughter"

They always "Wah wah wah! You cant do that cause somewhere along the line i was effected by that event!"

Like the swastika. People always get upset whenever it appears, of course not realizing that origanly it was a sort of tibentian symbol. It is soo much more than the 3-4 years it was used by nazis

There is also the cross. I remember people were upset about NWN 2 graveyards having crosses in them, because everyone sees cross as instantly christian symbol, when it is just simply two planks of wood crossing each other.

Course those are just symbols. But still... Whenever someone does something that involves something in real life, SOMEONE will always be upset. Esspecially when it involves combat cause they are always like "Its a game it trivilizes the loss of life now i cry..."

But i'm rambling a bit now..

...hmm....World War 2 games....

What about those?....There are so many it's like a whole genrie yet we never hear people whine like this...

And often WW2 games do kinda show US soilders getting killed.

Stupid people make my head hurt.

the "daughter" person really doesn't have an arguement. I mean there's games out there that let you play as the nazis, and that was the holocaust.

there's much bigger fish out there.

It is not a historical event buried in the past, but is very fresh in the memory of Spaniards.

I'm fairly sure that the Second World War is very fresh in the minds of a number of people. Yet they generally don't scream about movies or games made that are based on that time. Something similar is true of the Vietnam war as well.

Indeed, as Paco Perez said up there, one of the things the game could serve to do is keep the war fresh in people minds. Which is a good thing from the standpoint that it's a reminder of past lessons learned.

After all, as someone once parodied that famous axiom about the past:

"History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club."

uhg...

ZOMG! how DARE people make films,movies,TV shows,,books,new stories about past events!

Actually, Vietnam was a civil war, just not a US civil war. I wonder how games about the Korean war play in Korea?

So, you can't make a game about the Spanish Civil War, but you can about any other war in history. Including more recent conflicts.

@Ace of Sevens

Actually, it wasn't. North and South Vietnam were two different nations that used to be whole. Therefore, it wasn't a civil war.

@Vladmire

Last I checked, Vietnam was still in one piece, Korea is the one that was split in two.

The second world war might have been "worse" than the Spanish civil war, but the Spanish civil still causes big fights in Spain. The civil war is still a very touchy subject. It might seem stupid with all the world war II games, but people who know Spain understand the outrage.

@Vlad

Actually, you'd have the Union and the Confederacy. I've always liked that word.. Confederacy..

No, North and South Korea used to be Korea, so they are split. Vietnam is whole again.

@Vlad

Well, the way things worked was like this:

Korea and Vietnam were under the control of others until after WWII. Due to various political factors, when they regained their independence, they each got split into a North and a South. Eventually, the north invaded the south.

In the case of Korea, things eventually resolved so they remained seperate.
In the case of Vietnam, the north eventually conquered the south, and the two were fused into one country.

@Hand

That was one of the fun things about Lords of the Realm 2. You could play politics and the like, or you could become very brutal. I remember running in on one guys country and destroying everything. Civlians, crops, anything i could destroy. Eventually His civilians that were left revolted and threw him out of office. I came in and cleaned up the mess.

GP: LOTR2 ?   Wow, great game... you're reaching back a ways into the memory bank for that one, though, no?

@Vlad

"Civil" War is an oxymoron.

Oh boo hoo. You don't see veterans protesting every single WWII game that comes out. Besides, it happened almost 70 years ago. Get over it.

Although I certainly don't think it is the game developer's intent to trivialise or insult those who suffered from this war.. I can see why they would be upset by it. We're not talking about some war against a foreign nation, or some distant part of the world.. we're talking about a fairly recent civil war, followed by a lengthy dictatorship which ended well within the lifespan of many modern gamers. I don't know much about the whole thing, but I do know how devastating civil war can be, and that I was born only five years after that dictatorship ended... I know a lot of gamers who would have been alive during it.

To those of you who don't know why a civil war in your nation is different from any other kind of war... it is because it isn't your army fighting and dying against another army, it is /you/ fighting and dying, against people who a week ago were your neighbors, friends, lovers, brothers, sisters, parents... the results of this, even without a dictatorship following it, last for generations.. please, go ask the peolpe in Northern Ireland how they would feel about a video game being made that allowed people to play the IRA, the British Army, and various other factions in that recent struggle.. my father was there, and I know he would feel insulted, as would I on his behalf.... especially if it was not done with consideration. Go to the former Yugoslavia, and ask how people would like a game that allowed people to fight on various sides of their struggle... while glossing over the atrocities that were commited.

RTS games simplify war.. and civil wars are so personal that it hurts to see those details glossed over for the sake of someone's entertainment. You may not understand this, but have some compassion.. a virtue sadly lacking it seems in many of the posters in this thread.. stop for a moment and realize the effects of a civil war on a nation, and why people might be upset by this.

@Thomas.

Compassion is one of the 8 virutes of the Avatar from Ultima. :P

After reading your comment. I like to recline of my first post I made eariler.

Civil Wars do seem to have a different war about it. Sence it's in your own back yard compaired to fighting people across the big pond.

While this "daughter" might be hurt from this...I don't think those developers are insensitive or doing the game to piss off people.

I'm sure we can agree on all that...hell I bet the outcry was unpredicted...

I think it all boils down to who is sensitive about things and who is not....I'm sure not every person is upset about it and I'n sure there are rational people.

@Lightwarrior

I agree, it doesn't seem that they are doing this to cause offense. But there is a difference between doing something to cause offense and dismissing the fact that it does upset people as unimportant which it seems that many in this thread are doing... really, my comments are not against the game, but rather against those commenting here who do not seem to have a single clue what they are talking about when it comes to civil wars.

I must take issue with your use of the word "rational" however, as if the people offended are irrational lunatics... even a rational person might be offended when they find out that someone will be taking entertainment from something which involved people they love being killed, and which they need to deal with every day of their lives.

@Vladmire

Definitely agree with you there, that's something I always like to point out.... espeically to people who slate videogames as pointless or violent, after they are done screaming insults at the ref during their local football (not soccer dammit!) match.

There are a lot of people on here ridiculing the Spanish for making a fuss about a war that ended nearly seventy years ago - and before WWII even started. However, there's a good reason they're more touchy about Franco in Spain than they are in Germany about Hitler (and I think a lot of Americans underestimate just how sore a subject that still is, but that's another matter): While the civil war ended in '39, Franco won it and ruled the country until his death in 1975. That may be before most of us here were born, but it's not really very long ago. And it's still a touchy subject: It's only this year that they'll remove all references to the regime in street names etc. - a similar measure was outvoted as late as 2002.

Does that mean it's out of line to make a game about it? Not really. But it's not that surprising that some people would think so.

@father time

Grave of the fireflies is the one i've seen that doesnt, oh.. and Howls moving castle.

course... those are kinda diffrent..

Well, I can't imagine how it could /not/ trivialise it... I mean... how many RTS games really address the long term pain and suffering caused by something like this? They can do as much as they can to include factual stuff, but at the end of the day, to someone who has suffered.. simply making a "game" out of it is making it trivial.

Off topic but just so people know autocracies were committed on both sides of the isle in the Spanish Civil War. The Republicans killed many people in innocent blood most much the same as the Nationalists did (mainly devote catholics most of whom took no side during the conflict). Most people consider the Republicans all perfectly good and the Nationalists as completely evil but both sides were in essence pretty damn bad.

@marlowe

Esspecially how the french are kinda becoming a bigger ally now than the british? or at least so i hear..

@Vlad,

My Grandfather was wounded in a french "civil war" of late that never existed officialy.

I think he'd be pissed about a video game about it not because of the subject but because of the media coverage around it. He hates the media for their "stupid" coverage of pretty much everything.