Conservative Pundit Calls Out Censorious Senator

Conservative Pundit Calls Out Censorious Senator

November 21, 2007
Over at The Technology Liberation Front Adam Thierer (left) has a go at remarks made by Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), a frequent critic of media content. Thierer writes:
One of the things I find most interesting about calls to regulate “excessively violent” content... is the way critics make massive leaps of logic and draw outrageous conclusions based on myopic, anecdotal reasoning...

He points to remarks made by Rockefeller to a West Virginia newspaper:
Violent content has a way of desensitizing impressionable minds, [Rockefeller] said... [citing] the horrific massacre at Virginia Tech. To buttress his point, the senator told of an 80-year-old World War II veteran who... described his wartime experiences...

“[The veteran] said that he just got numb, that he lost any feeling,” [Rockefeller] said... "It gives them post-traumatic stress disorder. That is the point — you get immune to [killing]..."

Thierer finds flaws in Rockefeller's reasoning, arguing that if the soldiers of World War II were so desensitized to violence, they should have come home and created "a nation of murders, thieves, and thugs". Instead, they built what has come to be known as The Greatest Generation. He continues:
Millions of average folk have watched countless acts of violence in plays, movies, TV shows and games, and yet would never consider carrying out those same acts in public. Simply stated, most people can separate fantasy from reality...

I have probably played just about ever type of violent video game imaginable... We didn’t take to the streets and start murdering each other just because we played a lot of Duke Nukem or Doom...

Matter of fact, the world seems to be getting better in many important ways.. A new article... “Crime, Drugs, Welfare—and Other Good News” points out that just about all the important social indicators (murder, rape, robbery, etc) have witnessed steady decreases...

How can this be happening if violent media spawns violent minds and violent acts?! ...The critics, like Sen. Rockefeller, have no answer. They just continue to arrogantly ride around on their moral high horses and tell us that were are all just ignorant sheep who are being programmed to be killers by the media that we enjoy.
Posted in

Comments

Submitted by Soul - November 21, 2007 at 1:59 pm -0500
That Adam Thierer guy couldn't be more right :) .
Submitted by Anonymous - November 21, 2007 at 3:55 pm -0500
Well, well, looks like this guy hardly gets TV coverage, one might wonder why.

Perhaps because he actually behaves intelligently and this does not suit the sales departements of most news outlets.
Submitted by Distaria - November 21, 2007 at 4:22 pm -0500
To our media, logic is not "news."
Submitted by Saladin - November 22, 2007 at 3:03 am -0500
Preach on brutha! Preach on!
Submitted by Shoehorn O'Plenty - November 21, 2007 at 7:37 am -0500
"tell us that were are all just ignorant sheep who are being programmed to be killers by the media that we enjoy."

Exactly. Either as an individual or a parent (which I will be soon), if someone told me that I or my child would turn into a killer or become more likely to commit a violent act because of playing a game, I would tell that person to stop insulting my intelligence.

People's outrage is misplaced in my opinion. Instead of rallying against the makers of violent media, why not rally against the politicians and pundits who apparently have such little respect for the public that they see them as sheep who are incapable of independent though.
Submitted by Broken Scope - November 21, 2007 at 7:51 am -0500
I like this guy.
Submitted by Kharnivore. - November 21, 2007 at 7:53 am -0500
Or better yet - why not stop scapegoating and start focusing on the real problems with our society? Violence and crime in abundance are just symptoms of a society falling ill.

As people we need to stop blaming and start fixing, there's a lot wrong with how we live that we can't see the woods because of the trees.

But this is, perhaps wishful thinking and rather more to the topic; with as much bias as there is on both sides I don't believe we'll ever have a conclusion that will be universally accepted regardless of the fact that it's true.

For my part I do believe that video games can raise aggression to a degree in some people, but the fact is that a normal kid isn't going to attack someone, or shoot up a school merely because of playing games. Something must have gone very very wrong in their life at an earlier point for that kind of utter rejection of society to take place.

Why don't we start looking at those factors instead of just blaming games?
Submitted by Matthew - November 21, 2007 at 8:02 am -0500
Rockefeller compared post-traumatic stress disorder to the after-effects of a Team Fortress adrenaline rush? What an insult. Which bit of "traumatic" isn't he getting there? I may not have much knowledge when it comes to war, but I don't quite think shellshock makes you a more efficient killer unless you plan on subduing the enemy by collapsing into the foetal position and twitching.

Kudos to Thierer for picking up on of the often overlooked smoking guns in this whole debate. If games make people more violent, and more people are playing games now, what is providing this massive calming factor that is offsetting this ro result in a decrease in violent crime?
Submitted by Tom90deg - November 21, 2007 at 8:05 am -0500
It's very simple. Blaming someone is easy, takes no effort, and gives the illusion that you're fixing the problem while keeping yourself safe. Actually fixing a problem takes a great deal of effort, and, most importantly, the person who's trying to fix it has to put their head on the chopping block. You say you're going to fix the violence problem? Well, you better, because if you don't, people are going to be crying for your blood. If you blame someone, then it becomes their fault, and it's their mess to clean up. Trying to fix the problem opens you up for people attacking.
Submitted by CyberSkull - November 21, 2007 at 8:17 am -0500
"The Blame Game™! Because solving problems and fixing shit is hard!"

If I have time at work tomorrow I will post a graphic of this for you.
Submitted by janarius - November 21, 2007 at 8:18 am -0500
“[The veteran] said that he just got numb, that he lost any feeling,” [Rockefeller] said… “It gives them post-traumatic stress disorder. That is the point — you get immune to [killing]…”

PTSD is the keyword that flawed his argument. if looked up in wikipedia and my abnormal psych textbook... there's a big difference between actual war experience and video games. and yes, PTSD do get violent outbursts and don't feel anything, but that's because what they experienced is traumatic and recurrent (i.e. haunting them day in and out)

so you can't make comparisons with WWII vets. and I don't hear any reports of PTSD amongst gamers.
Submitted by G-Dog - November 21, 2007 at 8:36 am -0500
Wow, it's been years since I last heard a Conservative actually speak like a Conservative and not a socialist dictator. I didn't see one reference to 9/11, terrorists, or gays are murdering pro life fetuses.
Submitted by Arlen - November 21, 2007 at 8:47 am -0500
Sure this guy sounds like he's talking sense, but let's not all jump on the Conservative bandwagon just yet.

This is a very small part of a very old battle between Liberals (violence is bad) and Conservatives (sex is bad). I have every confidence that if Rockstar had released "ManLove" instead of "ManHunt" the Conservatives would be going bonkers about it and the Liberals would appear, by contrast, to be more reasonable.

The fight against media censorship and the nanny state is a battle that has to be fought on both fronts.
Submitted by the1jeffy - November 21, 2007 at 9:37 am -0500
A conservative, that *gasp* actually acts like a conservative and not a moralist! YAY!

Good point, Arlen, however, since sexually explicit media is already covered by the Obscenity Statutes, the hypothetical you propose isn't founded in reality. The porn debate has passed - the violence debate is focal issue.
Submitted by Terminator44 - November 21, 2007 at 10:08 am -0500
@the1jeffy

Not to mention that the biggest stinks over sex in video games were Night Trap and Hot Coffee. Each of those controversies was presided over by Joe Liberman and Hilary Clinton (respectively); both of whom are very liberal.

Yes, I'm not naive enough to think we can count on conservatives for very much support. However, I do stand by my view that we have much more to fear from social-control "progressives."
Submitted by Gray17 - November 21, 2007 at 10:09 am -0500
@Tom90deg

It’s very simple. Blaming someone is easy, takes no effort, and gives the illusion that you’re fixing the problem while keeping yourself safe. Actually fixing a problem takes a great deal of effort, and, most importantly, the person who’s trying to fix it has to put their head on the chopping block.

Exactly. Many of societies problems that get blamed on scapegoats tend to have difficult to fix roots. Poverty, bad neighborhood, bad home environment, and so on while growing up. Such things are difficult to fix, or difficult to help people overcome.

Then you've got people that have a screw or five loose that need serious professional help, but again, it's not easy to fix. Psych therapy ain't cheap, and it's difficult to force people to get help for fear of violating their rights. Plus you get the best results when the person acknowledges that they need help and wants to fix whats wrong with them, and unfortunately all too often, sanity is relative.

So rather than attempt to address such difficult issues, people blame scapegoats, attack them to make it look like they're doing something, then call it a day.
Submitted by GoodRobotUs - November 21, 2007 at 10:15 am -0500
Wow! The guy from bewitched hasn't aged a day.....
Submitted by GoodRobotUs - November 21, 2007 at 10:16 am -0500
Sorry, I couldn't help that, it's been a good day, and not because of the news on here :)
Submitted by lumi - November 21, 2007 at 10:28 am -0500
Off-topic for a moment, but gratz to Shoehorn! =D

Back on topic:

The guy makes some very good points. "Proof by vehement assertion", while wildly popular in politics, is not a scientifically viable method.
Submitted by Tim Lee - November 21, 2007 at 10:31 am -0500
Adam's a libertarian, not a conservative.
Submitted by the1jeffy - November 21, 2007 at 10:35 am -0500
Tim Lee,

So a true conservative, and not a Conservative with an (R) after his name. Even better.
Submitted by E. Zachary Knight - November 21, 2007 at 10:54 am -0500
I am glad to read this news. This coupled with John Bruce's suit being denied makes for a really great day.

Can't wait for the rest of the day.
Submitted by Tye The Czar - November 21, 2007 at 11:00 am -0500
Libertarians; GOSH YEAH! Even though I know very little about what they represent, oy.
Submitted by JustChris - November 21, 2007 at 11:55 am -0500
"To buttress his point, the senator told of an 80-year-old World War II veteran who… described his wartime experiences…"

Honestly, you cannot compare a bunch of rounds playing online FPS games to your own personal WWII experience. What was Rockefeller on?

"Blaming someone is easy, takes no effort, and gives the illusion that you’re fixing the problem while keeping yourself safe."

Exactly the point here that is proven by Adam. People who uphold gratuitous censorship laws might tell us they're thinking in the long term to prevent future problems from happening, but they're really just short term solutions that take a short span of time to carry out, so they need to put their foot where their mouth is.
Submitted by JustChris - November 21, 2007 at 12:00 pm -0500
EDIT BUTTON TIME: I meant to say comparing it to someone else's WWII experience, not his own.
Submitted by A-wel Cruiz - November 21, 2007 at 12:16 pm -0500
I normally can't stand Conservatives, but this guy nailed it 100%!
Submitted by Todd - November 21, 2007 at 12:30 pm -0500
Hear hear.

I don't care if he is conservative or liberal, he speaks of critical thinking, something both sides too often lack.
Submitted by Conejo - November 21, 2007 at 12:50 pm -0500
why look at the real reasons for crime and violence in this nation when we can just scapegoat whatever the popular media is of the day, right?

i mean, i'm sure it has nothing to do with continual impoverishment of the lower class (majority of which are minorities) at the hands of the upper class (mostly W.A.S.P.s running big buisness industries). neither would it have to do with the government continually passing legislation that favors the rich, nor building more jails while underfunding schools.

no, i'm sure it's them danged vidjagames causin Satan to pervert the young'ns.
Submitted by Thomas - November 21, 2007 at 2:00 pm -0500
Probably the most intelligent criticism of bad logic I've read so far on GP. These are the people I would prefer to have in the spotlight when legislators are attempting to pass through unconstitutional media censorship.
Submitted by general531 - November 21, 2007 at 2:43 pm -0500
The wise man spoketh!
Submitted by Gamer81 - November 21, 2007 at 2:45 pm -0500
Tim Lee is right. Adam Thierer is a Libertarian, not a Conservative. In fact, Adam is a member of the Cato Institute (a Libertarian organization) and once wrote an article titled "Of Desperate Housewives and Desperate Regulators" slamming the conservative group "Parents Television Council", and calling them "censorship advocates".
Submitted by Sidewinder - November 21, 2007 at 2:59 pm -0500
"One of the things I find most interesting about calls to regulate “excessively violent” content… is the way critics make massive leaps of logic and draw outrageous conclusions based on myopic, anecdotal reasoning…"

Let us print this on a banner and have a parade trough town!!!

Combine the amount of people coming to our side and the crap JT is in, I say we are not far from winning this (cultural) war.
Submitted by Afecks - November 21, 2007 at 6:40 pm -0500
>The guy makes some very good points. “Proof by vehement assertion”, while wildly popular in politics, is not a scientifically viable method.

And that, folks, is your Jack Thompson angle!
Submitted by BOBBY - November 21, 2007 at 6:54 pm -0500
Personally, I fell that politicians in today's time are using the same tactics Nixon used on war on drugs. The country was at war with Vietnam and Nixon's popularity was on the steady dicrease. All politicans have the same method: gemic, and scapegoat. Find a problem. Blame, blame, blame. Build a following. It seems that most of the politicians really care nothing about the people anymore, but more so on the image and strength of their party. On a more serious note, I will be voting for Steven Colbert this election. "No lie."
ps
One other thing i do not see by politicians is the focus on responsibility of today americans. They talk about "M" rated games like they are intended to be played by children. I am sorry, but if you let you kids (under a certian age) play man hunt, you have failed as a parent, and are now part of the problem. Read this how to on being a parent. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat
Submitted by Coravin - November 21, 2007 at 8:19 pm -0500
Ummm...wow, does this guy lack even a basic understanding of PTSD? Post-traumatic stress disorder is not the result of numbness to killing, but rather the result of the psychological and physiological costs of killing, facing ever-present threats of death and otherwise, and other negative stresses pushing a person too far. Since when is PTSD a result of "moral numbness" or desensitization to killing? It's basically the opposite, sheesh.

@ lumi

How aptly put.
Submitted by Ace of Sevens - November 21, 2007 at 10:45 pm -0500
There were plenty of cases of PTSD from WW2. I know a guy in a nearby small town, who snapped about 20 years ago and killed the mayor and several members of the city council because the sewer was backing up into his basement and it reminded him of the conditions he was under when he was a POW in Japan. The larger point is that very few people are actually affected in such a way.
Submitted by Coravin - November 22, 2007 at 12:38 am -0500
@ Ace

I don't think even then the politicians' argument would have even the most tenuous basis in reality. Those who are driven by PTSD to return to the imprinted stresses that messed them up aren't desensitized to violence--rather, they are hyper-sensitized to it, aroused back to the state of alertness and overstressedness that leaves them so affected.

So even if videogames had the same effect, they would not be promoting killers or numbing people to violence, but rather the opposite. But of course, most reprehensible is that he compares video game violence to war in its effects on people, thus demeaning the struggles real people have in normal lives after being exposed to situations conducive to PTSD formation.
Submitted by AgnostoTheo - November 22, 2007 at 1:09 am -0500
I like this guy
Submitted by Baramos - November 22, 2007 at 1:09 am -0500
FINALLY! SOMEONE DRESSED IN A SUIT AND WITH A NORMAL HAIRCUT TO CONVINCE IDIOTIC WHITEBREAD AMERICA (using the same valid arguments other people have used of course)! Why didn't this come sooner?!

You see, people don't believe things unless they come from someone they consider clean-cut, even when said things are true.
Submitted by AB - November 22, 2007 at 3:56 pm -0500
if only more people like him are in this world, non of this legal matter would be necessary. (aka JT)
Submitted by LeonaVanRain - November 27, 2007 at 6:28 pm -0500
Video games are not the only thing that has violence there is plenty of violence all over. One is the violence of the real world, the world can barely get along. The real world has examples of violence that can never change in a real/deadly way unlike in a game its not reality.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: http://tinyurl.com/ye6x9nv
Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: The very definition of "Lucky Shot":
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:56am
DarkSaber: http://tinyurl.com/yl2vfw6 Here's the link, good for conspiracy theories.
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:42am
JDKJ: Leaders never follow. Followers never lead.
Posted 11/23/09 at 06:48am
DarkSaber: Anyone been following this Hadley Climatic Research Centre server hack story?
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:48pm
ZippyDSMlee: AE:they feeding you well? I am enjoying win7 and heading to bed...uhg I need to get up early and start back to cleaning/painting blahg >< need tog et stuff done befor thanksgiving....
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:41pm
Andrew Eisen: Just got home from an eight hour recording session at Capitol Records. A lot of fun but damn exhausting.
Posted 11/22/09 at 08:44pm
BearDogg-X: 10 N. O. Who Dat?
Posted 11/22/09 at 09:45am
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I think doc phill is still sout about the break up with his wife he dose not fill holes as much as make them bigger these day
Posted 11/22/09 at 12:06am
JDKJ: You should get Phil McCraken to help you spackle those banisters.
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:57pm
ZippyDSMlee: Oh in the pirate hunter article I need my song ieda heckled DS,JD,Beemon sic im !!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:56pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:no I am tried from prepping the banisters for painting , worked on them from 12 to 4 and 6 to 8...after I got back from the store...got up early got ready...blah...been up all day..I need a nap...
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:42pm
JDKJ: No. You gonna stay up late tonight soldering?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:41pm
ZippyDSMlee: JDKJ:Don't you mean Mctite?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:33pm
JDKJ: @Zip: Neil, Bob, and Lik McTaint. The McTaint brothers. LOL!!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:44pm
Flamespeak: I still think military personell, killing other military personell, on a military complex should be handled by military courts.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I could see this a mixture of the two charges rather than just one or the other.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I think this was mainly a person who snapped, but evidence is showing he definitely had strong inlinations to islamic-extremism.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:41pm
Flamespeak: People are trying to claim that Hasan's actions were not terrorism. I don't jump on the 'terror train' like others, however
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:38pm
mentor07825: Britain certainly does deserve it! And the French! God damn it, it was a hand ball!!!
Login or register to post shouts