GP on Joystiq: Two Governors, Two Hypocrites

December 14, 2007 -
...the one in which GP explains what Mitt Romney and Arnold Schwarzenegger have in common when it comes to video games.

Catch it only on Joystiq...

Comments

Link takes me to another thing on the site.

Yippee! Dennis explains why American's put up with the shit they do..

Yeah, not sure they have posted it yet. Not on their RSS feed or Main site that I can find.

Extremely opinionated.

So? I love opinionated rubbish that I agree with.

@Darkness

The Joystiq column is much more in the form of an editorial that the news items on here, on here Dennis just tries to report the facts, maybe with a few words on his own feelings tagged onto the end, whereas the Joystiq column itself is usually a voicing of Dennis' own personal opinion on the matter.

Great article, Dennis

A well written article, Dennis, in spite of what many of those tools on Joystiq may think.

I have to agree with you here Dennis. Despite what the posters on Joystiq said your article was timely and it was important.

Half of the Joystiq posters are ungrateful bastards, the other half were using massive sarcasm in support of you, Dennis.

Looks like I am in for some fun reading when I get home.

Can't wait to see what the people on Joystiq think.

Did you read the comments? Who new that Mario was such a Neo-Conservative!

Honestly, so there are so many Pro-Romney windbags on there I started to believe...

A) Mit was signing on under aliases
B) Mit got his people organized to pose as gamers and post misinformation
or
C) Mit has a pro-active cult of hateful idiots

God I hope he doen't win. BTW can anyone tell me what Obama's view on games is?

It dose raise some points that make you think...hhhmmmm...

@Vinzent

He doesn't like them, but he's more or less happy to let the industry police itself.

I wonder how Romney would feel about a waterboarding videogame...

I wonder how Romney would feel if we waterboarded him..

I would like to waterboard all politicians, maybe then we could get them to stop lying through their teeth and pandering.

Oh, I'd make an exception for John McCain though.

I've been on that board. Good grief. The heat on that board is terrible. Proof of John Gabriel's Greater Internet D*ckwad Theory for sure:

Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total D*ckwad.

I think the worst part of it all is that people on either side of the political spectrum always assume that people on the other side are operating with the absolute worst intentions in mind. Makes me a sad as both an American and a human being, actually.

@King James

Always makes me think of that 'Red vs Blue' introduction to the internet...

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2778175

Remember, kids, if you attack Republicans, you're a left-wing liberal communist.

If you attack Democrats, you're a right-wing conservative fascist.

At least, that's what I got from most of the Joystiq commenters. The few that weren't upset by the article or other commenters seemed like they were calm and rational people.

Just remember, there are hypocrites on both sides of the aisle, and they all think they know what's best for everyone.

Yeah i loved all those Mitt Romney R movies that were made into video games, they are the best ones ever!!!

GP Disclaimer: Dennis hates Mitt Romney

No, Dennis doesn't hate Mitt Romney, what Dennis hates is the fact that someone can say that Video Games are 'Filth' but water-boarding is 'something to be decided'. That is his opinion, and he's entitled to it.

Yes, the link could be considered tenuous by those who are in favour of Romney, or more concrete to those who are against, that's all down to personal perspective, and why Dennis' piece in Joystiq is called an 'Editorial'.

It is the policies that create the opinion, not the person, and that opinion is Mr McCauleys' alone, he doesn't claim otherwise. If Mitt Romney had not said the things he said, Dennis would not think the things he thinks. Simple as that.

how is romney not agreeing that waterboarding is torture a video game issue exactly?

GP: In and of itself, it is not. However, if you read the article - and I'm assuming that you did - I am contrasting his acquiesence to real-world torture with his position on violent video games.

And just what kind of message is that for the kiddies? That our potential leader is okay with torture? Whatever happened to the moral high ground? This country used to stand for something...

Actually, I'm a fairly moderate person politically. I simply think Romney's waterboarding position is not defensible, and makes his attack on cartoon violence all the more bizarre, as I said over on Joystiq.

I don't agree with some things McCain has said and done, but I admit that I like his brand of straight talk. He's not afraid to buck the common wisdom.

Some Joystiq readers seemed to believe that because I happened to be criticizing Romney and Arnold in this column that I was giving the Dems a pass on game issues. Not hardly.

@scot

cause he (romney) says that waterboarding is something to be decided yet has said that video games are part of the sea of filth that today's youth is swimming in.

in other words, waterboarding isn't out right bad/evil but video games are.

@ scot:

Without putting words in Dennis' mouth, the connection I made when reading the article, and previous articles posted on this site about Mitt Romney, games and waterboarding is that Mitt Romney is campaigning on the notion that media violence and obscenity are warping children, and that his concern over make-believe violence is greater and more firmly established than his concern over real-life violence. The hypocrisy that Romney's being accused of, so far as I can tell, is that he is positing that the moral wrongness of media violence is great and firmly established, while the moral wrongness of an act of real violence is unclear. Therefore, Mitt Romney's position on an act that many people consider to be torture and unethical makes his position on video games (one of greater governmental regulation and censorship) difficult and illogical.

That's what I got. Whether you agree with my interpretation of Dennis' article, and whether you agree with Dennis, that's all on you.

@Zero Beat

"Remember, kids, if you attack Republicans, you’re a left-wing liberal communist"

How'd you know that..?

"Can’t wait to see what the people on Joystiq think."

E.Zachary Knight...trust me, you don't want to see that.

@ Pixelantes

Yes I do. I love a good laugh in the evenings. It helps break the mundane effects of work.

Personally I just get a headache. Too much moronity in large doses does that to me.

I'm rather torn with this editorial.

On one hand, "Oven" Mitt Romney pulls out the "those darn kids" routine, just short of shaking a cane and telling people to stay off his lawn with the "Digital Bogeyman" tactic.
I know better that most of that is just a load of hokum and doesn't win a lot of points with me, especially when I work in that "evil industry that corrupts the youth" he frequently rants about.

On the other hand, we mention torture as an example that should be reviled, and that he didn't want to outright denounce it. While it is a horrible practice, it should be viewed more or less as a necessary evil, no different than justifiable homicide.
Just the same as I'd do whatever in my power to protect my life and the lives of my friends, family and neighbors, if torturing was the only quick method to get information that could stop some horrible act of destruction out of a criminal, I'd be first in line to pull the switch.

My father told me one time why he allowed me to play all the violent video games that everyone told him would make me more anti social was because those games were about heroes. Sure, there's plenty of icky stuff in the Resident Evil games, but Chris, Jill, Leon and the others try to do the right thing. In short he taught me that "context, instead of content"- It's not what the act is, but what the act *was about*.

While harming another and taking a life are two horrible things, I'd rather have those factors over my head then to remove important tools that, when used sparsely and judiciously, ensure safety and security.

With that said, I agree with GP's closing statement, but can not agree with the method on how he got there.

@ Pixelantes

You were right. Totally not worth my time. I think I stopped reading about 20 comments in.

I also read those comments on Joystiq. About 75% of the posters (no, I did NOT do the math) are being total idiots.

Are you surprised? Joystiq caters to those kinds of idiots.

That's why I like Destructoid. Most of their members aren't like that.

@ Gp

While it's a big stretch to say your completely unbiased dennis, you are a pretty fair guy in most cases. That being said, I can't really argue with ya on this issue, this hyporacy is rather obvious, almost to the point of being blatant.

Rommney is a self serving line towing Republican, through and through. Arnold has made a clear and vested intrest in trying to seem "family oriented" since he was elected to office, which is no suprise to me. To do so, he had to dump his violent action hero past so that he could avoid having it used against him. Lets face it, he got alot of heat for it when signed the game law, and got more when he vowed an appeal. Odds are he's gonna lose the appeal anyway, but at least it makes him look good for the Fundies and the Family values crowd.

Lets face it dennis, almost all politicains, rep and dem alike are liars and hypocrites, Hillary, Obama, Mc Cain, Bush. Not one has ever really served the People of the usa, but always focused on there own pwersonal intrested and power.

Nothing ever changes.

"Note to Arnold and Mitt: Your hypocrisy is showing." Gross

@Wirebrain
A Necessary Evil... i find that to be rather questionable when it comes to torture. I mean, when i think about it, it does not seem to be at all a good method of getting accurate information. If the Prisoner truly knows nothing they will say so... but ofcourse such an answer is not satisfactory and as such they would be tortured until they spoke... but since they know nothing they only thing they can say is "i don't know" or outright lie; and i'd imagine they would lie just to end the torture. If the prisoner does know something, then the question is how to get the truth out of him... you have no way of verifying what they say in the short term so much like an innocent prisoner they can just lie to get out of it in order to protect the information... and after you find out they lied you try to torture them again and they lie again... eventually it gets to the point where you don't know if he's telling the truth, feeding you lies and covering the truth, or if really doesn't know anything; if he gave you the truth could we even tell that it really is truthful?... All in all, in either case, torture sounds like it could be very ineffective at gathering information and sounds like it would only throw us off track with false information instead of helping us better protect our people. Maybe torture might work out in a few cases, but i'd imagine it failing in most cases.

Really in the hypothetical situation of needing "quick information" to stop an act of destruction that was soon to happen, you'd probably spend to much time sorting through the lies to actually make it in time...

Necessary evil i would say can only really be considered necessary is if their were no alternatives and if the the method was actually effective... i may be speaking out of ignorance, but it sounds very ineffective to me...

Hypocrites? Hardly. Waterboarding, used only a few times, demonstrably saved lives. See this report at http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/index.html.

Not sure what lives a kid playing GTA has saved.

As to Arnold, the movie industry understands that no one under 17 was supposed to get into any of his R-rated movies. As David Walsh of NIMF recently proved the video game industry sells M-rated games to kids under 17 about half the time. Arnold wants the game rating enforced. Pretty simple. If that\'s hypocrisy, then let\'s have more of it.

The only hypocrites here are the dweebs at ESA and ECA and their media tools. Any ideas who they may be?

@ some jabroni calling himself "hugh hefner"

The game ratings are being enforced, you ignorant fool. The Federal Trade Commission's last study(and the FTC has more credibility than the NIMF) showed that a minor was able to purchase a M-rated game 42% of the time(and 35% of the time at major retailers like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target), while at the same time, a minor was able to purchase R-rated movies 71% of the time. So much for "the movie industry understanding that no one under 17 can get any of Arnold's R-rated movies."

Arnold is a hypocrite for making his millions of dollars making violent movies(and even his so-called "family-friendly" movies like Jingle All The Way and Kindergarten Cop have violence), yet whining about video games.

Mitt Romney is nothing but a flip-flopper, as he's changed his opinion on every major campaign issue in the last twenty years he's been involved in politics.

There's no hypocrites in the ESA or the ECA either. They want game ratings enforced, but not when the game industry's unfairly targeted while the movie and music industries get free passes.

Dear Mr. Hefner, whether or not a torture technique can save lives does not make it any less torture.

My God, by that standard we should allow the police to do whatever they please with suspects of violent crimes, for if they were to be forced to not torture them they might kill again.

As for your stats about access to M rated games, how very wonderful for you to cherry pick what you quote. If you were to look at the situation a little bit more openmindedly you'd also have noticed that the same under 17-year-old would've been able to buy or rent the R-rated Conan The Barbarian movie EASIER then buy the M rated Conan game. Gee, I wonder which one is more violent?

But hey, I guess the dweebs at ECA and ESA are hypocrites just because you selectively quote information you apparently know nothing about. And anonymously using a username of a porn peddler. That's pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

@ hugh hefner
page not found.
Torture only works well if you have many prisoners that your tortureing and they all give the same story (give or take).
Now lets follow the snakey road of my logic. Now torture can give some good info. But the flipside it gives terrorists more recruteing power. Like in Iraq where 1 civilian killed by american forces while fighting terrorits helps recrute 10 more to the terrorists side and killing the terrorists does little to nothing. Now torture just tarnishes the US's image (more). The tarnished image makes other nations less likely to want to help or support said nation, and gives unfriendly nations (and let us not forget about groups) more reasons to be unfriendly (or downright hostile). Plans the unfriendly nations (and groups) are going to get more likely to succed. Why? Because the people involved in the plan are not going to want to be tortured, but they do want to strike a blow against the "vile" torturer's (Ahem, if anyone remembers "___ has WMD's" to "___ tortured his own people" (yes you have to fill in the blanks)).
And thats my logic as far as I want to type (or can my mind jumps about alot and then I forget the logical path that I took to arrive at the comclusion so at times it seems fragmented but somehow it all should tie together).

In short:
Tourture can help stop one plot but the fact that you torture people helps recrute more people for other and later plots, and when they act out the plot they are just going to be more cautious, more aware, and more determined to see it through (or die so as to avoid torture).

To use a quote from another of my hobbies "Thought for the Day: Hate Enriches." Warhammer 40k rulebook 4th Edition, page 7, bottom right corner. (ps yes I went and looked for a quote to use thou to be truthful I wanted something more profound)

@hugh hefner:

I think you ought to focus your energies on your trial.

Now it wouldn't surprise me if this 'Hefner' really IS a JT alt... then again, we've had a couple of fakers over the past week or so...

@DavCube

He may or may not be JT (and I believe he is), but I'm damn sure he and william panderlust are the same person. He even type the slashes in odd places for no apparent reason, like he did in other posts as william.

@monte'

Then let me ask you this- Do you think terrorists will just hand out information out of the goodness of their hearts if we say we're not going to torture them?

I'm not saying let's yank any average guy off the street and reenact a scene from a Saw film. But to just say that "no, we're not going to do it at all" is stupid. The bad guys do indeed watch what our leaders and news centers say.

Honestly, I'd love to see intelligence representatives EXAGGERATE in hearings on what interrogation techniques are used to help inspire criminals to spill the beans quicker before they are even touched.

Honestly, I think torture is okay, for certain people, or to get information. I'd have loved to see Sadam tortured on live television, as would many Americans I'm sure. But I don't think it's ok to interrogate a foot soldier or average joe, only the ones that would know the important facts.

That said, I do see how Mitt Romney is a hypocrite, saying actual torture is not necessarily bad, but video games are in fact bad. I've no problem with his position on waterboarding, only that it contradicts his gaming position.

Judging by the post in the Next Generation article and this one, Hugh Hefner and William Panderlust are either the same person, or two LaRouchites sharing the same computer.

They share the same IP, but different emails, but they sound an aweful lot like LaRouchites.

@Blackice

Watching how people act my whole life.
 
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