GP on Joystiq: Two Governors, Two Hypocrites

…the one in which GP explains what Mitt Romney and Arnold Schwarzenegger have in common when it comes to video games.

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  1. 0
    Toxicity² ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Mitt Romney fucking disgusts me. Let’s torture people, but make sure they don’t play any of those horrible fucking videogames.

    Schwarzenegger is also a fucking hypocrite. I wonder how many millions of dollars he made by starring in bloody violent movies like Total Recall or The Terminator?

  2. 0
    chadachada(123) ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I don’t know the statistics, Hughy, but I’m pretty sure I would have a much easier time getting alcohol or cigarettes at my age than I would trying to buy an M-rated game. I know kids personally that could walk into almost any gas station and buy some Newports, but still can’t buy M-rated games without an adult.

  3. 0
    Erik ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @Jack Pandralust Hefner Thompson

    “Hypocrites? Hardly. Waterboarding, used only a few times, demonstrably saved lives. See this report at”

    It saving lives is not a qualifier for whether or not it is torture. You could hack off someone’s legs with an ax and get the same info to save the same amount of lives.

    Using torture for a military advantage, thus saving lives, is nothing new.

    “Not sure what lives a kid playing GTA has saved.”

    “As to Arnold, the movie industry understands that no one under 17 was supposed to get into any of his R-rated movies. As David Walsh of NIMF recently proved the video game industry sells M-rated games to kids under 17 about half the time.”

    Oh really? The movie industry understands that? Then just why are minors able to buy violent R-rated movies, such as Arnolds 80% of the time?

    Oops, your argument just broke.

    “Waterboarding is not torture. Its coercion. And it works.”

    Torture has been used for coercion for a long time. You have yet to prove how its NOT torture.

    “As to the 42% failure rate documented by the FTC in the sale of mature games to kids: That\’s very high failure rate, and David Walsh\’s NIMF confirms that the failure rate has now risen to 50%. You think America would tolerate a 50% failure rate in selling booze at 7-11 to minors? Get a grip.”

    If 42% for the video game industry is high just how do you find the movie industry’s 80% acceptable? I would accept a 50% failure rate to selling booze at a 7-11 to a minor over an 80% failure rate.

    These Governors are hypocrites, and so are you Jack.

  4. 0
    Mnementh2230 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ hugh hefner

    One final note… you say Ron Paul doesn’t have a chance? Check out his live donation website. Keep in mind he only started using it about a day ago, but he’s got a LOT of donations coming in.


    I’d say he’s got a chance, if his donation rate can sustain itself. As for him being an anarchist, that’s not true and you know it, quit lying. Care to try again?

  5. 0
    Mnementh2230 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ hugh hefner

    check out this article.

    Persons accused of state crimes very frequently were interrogated with the use of specific techniques, including the rack, the thumbscrew, and waterboarding. King James I personally described the process in The Kings Booke (1606). He would, on the advice of his officers, “approve no new torture,” but he would certainly avail himself of the existing practices. In ascending order of severity they were: thumbscrews, the rack and waterboarding. That’s right. Waterboarding was considered the most severe of the official forms of torture. Worse than the rack and thumbscrews.

    Still not torture?

  6. 0
    Mnementh2230 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @hugh hefner, a.k.a. william panderlust

    Yeah, I figure you’re the same person. Same slashes before apostraphies. Unless we’ve got 2 idiots with the same problem… which wouldn’t suprise me too much.

    As to the waterboarding – if it’s not torture, would *YOU* undergo it willingly? It’s coersion in the same sense that breathing is a “suggestion”. It may not be torture physically, but mentally? Don’t you think the sensation of drowning like that, over and over, would scar someone mentally? If that’s not in the US’s definition of torture, our current regiem has lost touch with reality.

    As to the 42% failure rate documented by the FTC in the sale of mature games to kids: That\’s very high failure rate, and David Walsh\’s NIMF confirms that the failure rate has now risen to 50%. You think America would tolerate a 50% failure rate in selling booze at 7-11 to minors? Get a grip.

    That’s a problem for the RETAILERS, not the system itself. The system is fine. It’s really quite easy, you know. The comparison to alcohol is rediculous, however – alcohol is a poison that, when consumed in small quantities, has euphoric side effects and some health benifits (blood thinner). Alcohol is a DRUG. Video games are a completly different medium, and therefore your analogy would be better if you compared them to a similar medium… say, the MPAA rating system. Guess what? When you’re looking at two VOLUNTARY rating systems, and their enforcement, you get about the same result. Considering the MPAA has been around a LOT longer than the ESRB, they’re doing very well, and the ESRB has politicians backing it, AND an education campaign. The next time you want to commit a logical fallacy, try to at least give us a challenge. The “moron from Miami” tried that one a long time ago, and we shot it down then, too.

  7. 0
    BearDogg-X says:

    @ some waterhead calling himself “hugh hefner”

    Did you fail reading comprehension as a child?

    A 42% failure rate is still way lower than a 71% failure rate that the movie industry has in the last FTC report.

    Are you that mentally deficient that you can’t seem to understand that?

  8. 0
    jkdjr25, fomerly bayushisan ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ “hugh hefner”

    Have you undergone waterboarding? The former assistant attorney general did, and in his opinion it was torture.

    As your myopic claims that NIMF’s statistics are more accurate than those of the FTC I call shenanigans. We only have the word of a group with an agenda that their stats are accurate. As opposed to the FTC whose sole concern is the upholding of the law and determining these kinds of things. Long story short, its the job of the FTC to learn these numbers accurately. Any other group that tries to change the numbers must be questioned on their motives.

    Now I, honestly, have no doubt that NIMF actually does care about the issue of M rated material getting into the hands of minors. I find that fact a little comforting actually. It doesn’t change the fact that I disagree with their solutions, but knowing that they actually care means they can be talked to intelligently.

    All we, as the gaming community, are asking for is consistency on the part of these watch dog groups. So far I have yet to see that consistency.

  9. 0
    Internet Hate Machine ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Heh. Soooooo glad my country doesn’t have much of a video game issue. I don’t think games have ever been mentioned as a political topic, only as a police issue and a children’s health issue.

    @ King James

    [i]I’ve been on that board. Good grief. The heat on that board is terrible. Proof of John Gabriel’s Greater Internet D*ckwad Theory for sure:

    Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total D*ckwad.[/i]

    WHAT?!? This Anonymous always thought the Legion was proof enough of this theory (which I’ve never heard of before, will have to investigate)! Besides, this equation doesn’t always equal ‘Total D*ckwad’ as you say, but that’s another story entirely?

  10. 0
    kurisu7885 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @hugh hefner

    What? It has to have a 0% failure rate to be acceptable?

    Many MANY more children get a hold of R rated movies and no one seems to care

  11. 0
    Johnny ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    “As to the 42% failure rate documented by the FTC in the sale of mature games to kids: That\’s very high failure rate, and David Walsh\’s NIMF confirms that the failure rate has now risen to 50%. You think America would tolerate a 50% failure rate in selling booze at 7-11 to minors? Get a grip”.

    Yet America tolerates a 70+% failure rate in selling unrated or R-rated movies to kids. So it doesn’t surprises me if America tolerates a 42% failure rate of selling M-rated games to kids.

  12. 0
    hugh hefner says:

    Reading the postings at this site constitutes torture, and yet you all seem to like it. By the way, you know what a sadist is, right? It\’s someone who is nice to masochists.

    Waterboarding is not torture. Its coercion. And it works.

    As to the 42% failure rate documented by the FTC in the sale of mature games to kids: That\’s very high failure rate, and David Walsh\’s NIMF confirms that the failure rate has now risen to 50%. You think America would tolerate a 50% failure rate in selling booze at 7-11 to minors? Get a grip.

    Finally, \”Ron Paul has a great chance?\” At what, privatizing the interstate highway system? This guy is an anarchist, who is perfect to run the ESA and the ECA.

  13. 0
    schmoe says:

    illspirit Ron Paul has a great chance. Stop perpetuating this myth, it’s getting tired.

    Gouliani and Arnold are both nazis, along with Bush. There is proof. Try a search. This would explain why they don’t want freedom of expression for our games, and why they support torture.

  14. 0
    illspirit ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Personally, I think the most stunningly hypocritical thing about Romney is that he pretends to be a small government conservative yet wants the Feds to get involved in regulating yet another thing. Let’s just hope he loses the primary lest we end up with a contest between two nannies.

    Though there’s not many good choices either way. Just based on past votes and general positions, I would rank the candidates in this order in regards to censorship:

    #1- Ron Paul. He subscribes to the ‘shrink the Federal government until it’s small enough to drown in a bathtub’ school of thought. But he also has no chance.

    #2- Fred Thompson. Makes “moralistic” noises from time to time about porn, abortion, and such, but is a committed federalist so wouldn’t want the feds involved either way. Bonus points: Has voted against bills in the Senate to censor/regulate violent TV.

    #3- Giuliani. Generally speaking, he’s an authoritarian nightmare waiting to happen. But he’s a big fan of the free market, so wouldn’t get involved there. Not much of a consolation prize, but, err, yea..

    #4- McCain. He’s also voted against censorship/regulation of violent TV. But he likes government power and changes positions somewhat randomly when politically expedient. Oh, and, the McCain-Feingold political speech censorship, umm, “campaign reform” act, so, no.

    Everyone else sucks.

  15. 0
    chadachada(123) ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Honestly, I think torture is okay, for certain people, or to get information. I’d have loved to see Sadam tortured on live television, as would many Americans I’m sure. But I don’t think it’s ok to interrogate a foot soldier or average joe, only the ones that would know the important facts.

    That said, I do see how Mitt Romney is a hypocrite, saying actual torture is not necessarily bad, but video games are in fact bad. I’ve no problem with his position on waterboarding, only that it contradicts his gaming position.

  16. 0
    Wirebrain says:


    Then let me ask you this- Do you think terrorists will just hand out information out of the goodness of their hearts if we say we’re not going to torture them?

    I’m not saying let’s yank any average guy off the street and reenact a scene from a Saw film. But to just say that “no, we’re not going to do it at all” is stupid. The bad guys do indeed watch what our leaders and news centers say.

    Honestly, I’d love to see intelligence representatives EXAGGERATE in hearings on what interrogation techniques are used to help inspire criminals to spill the beans quicker before they are even touched.

  17. 0
    Korax ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    He may or may not be JT (and I believe he is), but I’m damn sure he and william panderlust are the same person. He even type the slashes in odd places for no apparent reason, like he did in other posts as william.

  18. 0
    DavCube ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Now it wouldn’t surprise me if this ‘Hefner’ really IS a JT alt… then again, we’ve had a couple of fakers over the past week or so…

  19. 0
    Lost Question ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @ hugh hefner
    page not found.
    Torture only works well if you have many prisoners that your tortureing and they all give the same story (give or take).
    Now lets follow the snakey road of my logic. Now torture can give some good info. But the flipside it gives terrorists more recruteing power. Like in Iraq where 1 civilian killed by american forces while fighting terrorits helps recrute 10 more to the terrorists side and killing the terrorists does little to nothing. Now torture just tarnishes the US’s image (more). The tarnished image makes other nations less likely to want to help or support said nation, and gives unfriendly nations (and let us not forget about groups) more reasons to be unfriendly (or downright hostile). Plans the unfriendly nations (and groups) are going to get more likely to succed. Why? Because the people involved in the plan are not going to want to be tortured, but they do want to strike a blow against the “vile” torturer’s (Ahem, if anyone remembers “___ has WMD’s” to “___ tortured his own people” (yes you have to fill in the blanks)).
    And thats my logic as far as I want to type (or can my mind jumps about alot and then I forget the logical path that I took to arrive at the comclusion so at times it seems fragmented but somehow it all should tie together).

    In short:
    Tourture can help stop one plot but the fact that you torture people helps recrute more people for other and later plots, and when they act out the plot they are just going to be more cautious, more aware, and more determined to see it through (or die so as to avoid torture).

    To use a quote from another of my hobbies “Thought for the Day: Hate Enriches.” Warhammer 40k rulebook 4th Edition, page 7, bottom right corner. (ps yes I went and looked for a quote to use thou to be truthful I wanted something more profound)

  20. 0
    Pixelantes Anonymous ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Dear Mr. Hefner, whether or not a torture technique can save lives does not make it any less torture.

    My God, by that standard we should allow the police to do whatever they please with suspects of violent crimes, for if they were to be forced to not torture them they might kill again.

    As for your stats about access to M rated games, how very wonderful for you to cherry pick what you quote. If you were to look at the situation a little bit more openmindedly you’d also have noticed that the same under 17-year-old would’ve been able to buy or rent the R-rated Conan The Barbarian movie EASIER then buy the M rated Conan game. Gee, I wonder which one is more violent?

    But hey, I guess the dweebs at ECA and ESA are hypocrites just because you selectively quote information you apparently know nothing about. And anonymously using a username of a porn peddler. That’s pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

  21. 0
    BearDogg-X says:

    @ some jabroni calling himself “hugh hefner”

    The game ratings are being enforced, you ignorant fool. The Federal Trade Commission’s last study(and the FTC has more credibility than the NIMF) showed that a minor was able to purchase a M-rated game 42% of the time(and 35% of the time at major retailers like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target), while at the same time, a minor was able to purchase R-rated movies 71% of the time. So much for “the movie industry understanding that no one under 17 can get any of Arnold’s R-rated movies.”

    Arnold is a hypocrite for making his millions of dollars making violent movies(and even his so-called “family-friendly” movies like Jingle All The Way and Kindergarten Cop have violence), yet whining about video games.

    Mitt Romney is nothing but a flip-flopper, as he’s changed his opinion on every major campaign issue in the last twenty years he’s been involved in politics.

    There’s no hypocrites in the ESA or the ECA either. They want game ratings enforced, but not when the game industry’s unfairly targeted while the movie and music industries get free passes.

  22. 0
    hugh hefner says:

    Hypocrites? Hardly. Waterboarding, used only a few times, demonstrably saved lives. See this report at

    Not sure what lives a kid playing GTA has saved.

    As to Arnold, the movie industry understands that no one under 17 was supposed to get into any of his R-rated movies. As David Walsh of NIMF recently proved the video game industry sells M-rated games to kids under 17 about half the time. Arnold wants the game rating enforced. Pretty simple. If that\’s hypocrisy, then let\’s have more of it.

    The only hypocrites here are the dweebs at ESA and ECA and their media tools. Any ideas who they may be?

  23. 0
    monte' ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    A Necessary Evil… i find that to be rather questionable when it comes to torture. I mean, when i think about it, it does not seem to be at all a good method of getting accurate information. If the Prisoner truly knows nothing they will say so… but ofcourse such an answer is not satisfactory and as such they would be tortured until they spoke… but since they know nothing they only thing they can say is “i don’t know” or outright lie; and i’d imagine they would lie just to end the torture. If the prisoner does know something, then the question is how to get the truth out of him… you have no way of verifying what they say in the short term so much like an innocent prisoner they can just lie to get out of it in order to protect the information… and after you find out they lied you try to torture them again and they lie again… eventually it gets to the point where you don’t know if he’s telling the truth, feeding you lies and covering the truth, or if really doesn’t know anything; if he gave you the truth could we even tell that it really is truthful?… All in all, in either case, torture sounds like it could be very ineffective at gathering information and sounds like it would only throw us off track with false information instead of helping us better protect our people. Maybe torture might work out in a few cases, but i’d imagine it failing in most cases.

    Really in the hypothetical situation of needing “quick information” to stop an act of destruction that was soon to happen, you’d probably spend to much time sorting through the lies to actually make it in time…

    Necessary evil i would say can only really be considered necessary is if their were no alternatives and if the the method was actually effective… i may be speaking out of ignorance, but it sounds very ineffective to me…

  24. 0
    Yuki says:

    @ Gp

    While it’s a big stretch to say your completely unbiased dennis, you are a pretty fair guy in most cases. That being said, I can’t really argue with ya on this issue, this hyporacy is rather obvious, almost to the point of being blatant.

    Rommney is a self serving line towing Republican, through and through. Arnold has made a clear and vested intrest in trying to seem “family oriented” since he was elected to office, which is no suprise to me. To do so, he had to dump his violent action hero past so that he could avoid having it used against him. Lets face it, he got alot of heat for it when signed the game law, and got more when he vowed an appeal. Odds are he’s gonna lose the appeal anyway, but at least it makes him look good for the Fundies and the Family values crowd.

    Lets face it dennis, almost all politicains, rep and dem alike are liars and hypocrites, Hillary, Obama, Mc Cain, Bush. Not one has ever really served the People of the usa, but always focused on there own pwersonal intrested and power.

    Nothing ever changes.

  25. 0
    pyrohazard, agitated janitor ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Are you surprised? Joystiq caters to those kinds of idiots.

    That’s why I like Destructoid. Most of their members aren’t like that.

  26. 0
    Wirebrain says:

    I’m rather torn with this editorial.

    On one hand, “Oven” Mitt Romney pulls out the “those darn kids” routine, just short of shaking a cane and telling people to stay off his lawn with the “Digital Bogeyman” tactic.
    I know better that most of that is just a load of hokum and doesn’t win a lot of points with me, especially when I work in that “evil industry that corrupts the youth” he frequently rants about.

    On the other hand, we mention torture as an example that should be reviled, and that he didn’t want to outright denounce it. While it is a horrible practice, it should be viewed more or less as a necessary evil, no different than justifiable homicide.
    Just the same as I’d do whatever in my power to protect my life and the lives of my friends, family and neighbors, if torturing was the only quick method to get information that could stop some horrible act of destruction out of a criminal, I’d be first in line to pull the switch.

    My father told me one time why he allowed me to play all the violent video games that everyone told him would make me more anti social was because those games were about heroes. Sure, there’s plenty of icky stuff in the Resident Evil games, but Chris, Jill, Leon and the others try to do the right thing. In short he taught me that “context, instead of content”- It’s not what the act is, but what the act *was about*.

    While harming another and taking a life are two horrible things, I’d rather have those factors over my head then to remove important tools that, when used sparsely and judiciously, ensure safety and security.

    With that said, I agree with GP’s closing statement, but can not agree with the method on how he got there.

  27. 0
    King James says:

    @ scot:

    Without putting words in Dennis’ mouth, the connection I made when reading the article, and previous articles posted on this site about Mitt Romney, games and waterboarding is that Mitt Romney is campaigning on the notion that media violence and obscenity are warping children, and that his concern over make-believe violence is greater and more firmly established than his concern over real-life violence. The hypocrisy that Romney’s being accused of, so far as I can tell, is that he is positing that the moral wrongness of media violence is great and firmly established, while the moral wrongness of an act of real violence is unclear. Therefore, Mitt Romney’s position on an act that many people consider to be torture and unethical makes his position on video games (one of greater governmental regulation and censorship) difficult and illogical.

    That’s what I got. Whether you agree with my interpretation of Dennis’ article, and whether you agree with Dennis, that’s all on you.

  28. 0
    Yuuri ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    cause he (romney) says that waterboarding is something to be decided yet has said that video games are part of the sea of filth that today’s youth is swimming in.

    in other words, waterboarding isn’t out right bad/evil but video games are.

  29. 0
    GamePolitics ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Actually, I’m a fairly moderate person politically. I simply think Romney’s waterboarding position is not defensible, and makes his attack on cartoon violence all the more bizarre, as I said over on Joystiq.

    I don’t agree with some things McCain has said and done, but I admit that I like his brand of straight talk. He’s not afraid to buck the common wisdom.

    Some Joystiq readers seemed to believe that because I happened to be criticizing Romney and Arnold in this column that I was giving the Dems a pass on game issues. Not hardly.

  30. 0
    scot ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    how is romney not agreeing that waterboarding is torture a video game issue exactly?

    GP: In and of itself, it is not. However, if you read the article – and I’m assuming that you did – I am contrasting his acquiesence to real-world torture with his position on violent video games.

    And just what kind of message is that for the kiddies? That our potential leader is okay with torture? Whatever happened to the moral high ground? This country used to stand for something…

  31. 0
    GoodRobotUs ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    No, Dennis doesn’t hate Mitt Romney, what Dennis hates is the fact that someone can say that Video Games are ‘Filth’ but water-boarding is ‘something to be decided’. That is his opinion, and he’s entitled to it.

    Yes, the link could be considered tenuous by those who are in favour of Romney, or more concrete to those who are against, that’s all down to personal perspective, and why Dennis’ piece in Joystiq is called an ‘Editorial’.

    It is the policies that create the opinion, not the person, and that opinion is Mr McCauleys’ alone, he doesn’t claim otherwise. If Mitt Romney had not said the things he said, Dennis would not think the things he thinks. Simple as that.

  32. 0
    Zero Beat ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Remember, kids, if you attack Republicans, you’re a left-wing liberal communist.

    If you attack Democrats, you’re a right-wing conservative fascist.

    At least, that’s what I got from most of the Joystiq commenters. The few that weren’t upset by the article or other commenters seemed like they were calm and rational people.

    Just remember, there are hypocrites on both sides of the aisle, and they all think they know what’s best for everyone.

  33. 0
    King James says:

    I’ve been on that board. Good grief. The heat on that board is terrible. Proof of John Gabriel’s Greater Internet D*ckwad Theory for sure:

    Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total D*ckwad.

    I think the worst part of it all is that people on either side of the political spectrum always assume that people on the other side are operating with the absolute worst intentions in mind. Makes me a sad as both an American and a human being, actually.

  34. 0
    Vinzent says:

    Did you read the comments? Who new that Mario was such a Neo-Conservative!

    Honestly, so there are so many Pro-Romney windbags on there I started to believe…

    A) Mit was signing on under aliases
    B) Mit got his people organized to pose as gamers and post misinformation
    C) Mit has a pro-active cult of hateful idiots

    God I hope he doen’t win. BTW can anyone tell me what Obama’s view on games is?

  35. 0
    GoodRobotUs ( User Karma: 0 ) says:


    The Joystiq column is much more in the form of an editorial that the news items on here, on here Dennis just tries to report the facts, maybe with a few words on his own feelings tagged onto the end, whereas the Joystiq column itself is usually a voicing of Dennis’ own personal opinion on the matter.

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