Further more in Canada, whilst prostitution is legal, prostitution on the street is not legal. Nor is living off the profit made from paid for sex.

So how can these people run prostitutes down in the street, as street soliciting is illegal in Canada.

What has it come to when people who take part in illegal activities complain about legal ones?

...Just, no. Kuzyk, F-, see me after class. Seriously, he thinks that prostitutes are being killed because of GTA? Not like some people that use them are in any way messed up... Not at all...

Prostitutes have ALWAYS been ready made victims for predators of all sorts. Especially street walkers. (Anyone remember Jack the Ripper?)

Their job involves picking up strange men and taking them someplace where they won't be seen. Both parties have an interest in avoiding scrutiny.

It sucks, but it's got nothing to do with video games.

@ some guy

and also the fact that many of them are carrying (or looking for) illegal narcotics of some kind.


Yep. It's all the fault of them vidja games!

Yeah, 'cause being a prostitute was so much safer before Grant Theft Auto came along. Jack the Ripper trained on a Murder Simulator(tm) over a hundred years before video games were even invented.

Is this guy seriously trying to claim that GTA 'legitimized' violence against Sex Workers (Which is a PC way to say HOOKER) SIX YEARS before the very first game was even made? (1997/1998 was when the original GTA was released, according to Wiki, which has a pretty good track record when it comes to actual public record facts.)

@Tbone Tony

I'm not really sure what the last 2 parts of your post have to do with the subject.

Let me rephrase that, I don't think most prostitutes are killed by someone because they don't like prostitution. I think they are killed because they are easy targets.

To be fair, what recompense does a prostitute have if she is the victim of a crime? Say someone, not even a 'customer' decides to beat her, take her money, and throw her in a dumpster. What exactly can she do about it?

She goes to the cops - she goes to jail for being a hooker.

If you are going to make prostitution illegal, then fine, enforce the laws. And punish people who solicit them to the same or worse degree. But since most law enforcement agencies view prostitution as a soft crime, or recognize that prositutes are more likely to be a victim of a 'worse' crime, ie theft, murder, assault, they simply don't go after them. Legalized prostitution is better, so a legal sex worker has legal recompense to go after someone who commits a crime against her. But, it still legalization isn't going to solve the issue. Personally, I think prostitution laws should be repealed. This would allow them to prosecute, and allow for the dissolution of the drug-laden heirarchy that keeps many, many prostitutes in thrall.

Then cops can go after drugs, rapists, assaults, etc. instead of wasting time on a trade that has always, and will always exist.

In addition to what people have said above, it bears mentioning that prostitutes are not unique in the GTA series. You can run down anyone and kill them and beat them up and take their money. It's not a matter of GTA feeding a subculture of violence against prostitutes, it's a matter of something being scapegoated in place of the more complex/inherent actual problems.

I guess with the release of Grand Theft Auto IV approaching, this kind of sentiment is to be expected.

Hi all! Quick question I am an [Insert Public Relationsions Representative for Some Major Industry/Group/Church] and am wondering how I could blame some negative aspect of my [Insert Major Industry/Group/Church] on video games, particularly GTA IV, even though such a negative aspect has been around long before video games. If you could give me some tips on how to blame something completely unrelated to my [Insert Major Industry/Group/Church] I would be in your debt! Thanks!

uhhh.... technically... being a sex worker is a crime... so.. the problem isn't that videogames say it's ok... it's that... prostitutes are generally unwilling to go to the police when they are abused... and the people that abuse them know this and it makes them easy targets...


not.... a playstation game...

... >_

I wonder how much longer it will be before these people will relate WWII shooters to violence against Neo-Nazis. Right now they can't get any closer.

Oh, we're sorry. We will make it impossible to kill hookers in GTAIV. Never mind you can kill everyone ELSE in the game and steal their money. We're so sorry. We didn't mean to offend you workin' girls.

I'm pretty sure Prostitution is not a job.. its a crime.

@Keith K

"I’m pretty sure Prostitution is not a job.. its a crime."

Depends on who you talk to and where.

Prostitution isn't really something I like to talk about, because I shift between seeing it as a job and seeing it as a recreation.

We all know the answer as to whether GTA promotes violence against women..

@E.ZK

But then, if you've never done it, you're at a disadvantage in Best Man Speeches.

I find it funny (slightly), that people blame GTA about violence on prostitutes, forgetting that we have over 1000 years of history that says prostitution is regularly on the receiving end of both individual and state sanctioned violence. Of course, best not to confuse the issue with the facts, right?

I think that we need to look at where these quotes are coming from rather then immediately jumping on them. This lady is going after violence against sex workers in the media in general and she's using the example of a video game - a game that we know to be GTA III - that she probably heard about on some news show. It's not that she's saying "ban video games because they're evil!"

I can get behind stopping violence against sex workers and I would even go so far as to say that in most games there's really no reason to have violence against sex workers in much the same way that in most movies there's no reason for the main character to beat a prostitute.

The thing is that in some media violence against anybody isn't exploitive. In some - hell, in many - cases it is but in some cases it's intrinsic to the media experience. In GTA III the connection is even slimmer - violence against prostitutes in GTA III is circumstantial. You can kill prostitutes and take their money because you can do the same to anybody in the game world. You could argue that it's exploitive because all of the violence in GTA is exploitive but it's not targeted at sex workers.

It's just frustrating that this woman is misinformed. And to those saying that sex workers are committing a crime I would like you to consider that the underground sex trade forces a huge number of young women into violent prostitution and they have almost no recourse. If you consider a 16 year old girl who's been lured out of her Eastern European village with dreams of making a modest living working at a restaurant in the US but is then beaten, raped and forced into prostitution a criminal rather then a victim then you have serious problems.

"Sex workers?" Oi, vey, the whole political correctness thing has just gotten out of hand. Legal or illegal, a prostitute is a prostitute and there's nothing wrong with the word.

I would also like to point out that prostitution is quite probably the "world's oldest profession" - it has been with us since the beginning of recorded history and in many cultures, for a very long time, was considered quite respectable - even desirable. It is western Judeo/Christian values that have demonized it and made it immoral.

Won't someone please think of the hookers?!

I don't think anyone goes into that 'industry' because they want to. I don't know for sure but I would bet that there would have had to have been very bad alternatives for that choice to be made.

That said, none of these people deserves to be assaulted. I believe the speaker is saying that although it is a job risk - there tends to be some glamorization or at least acceptance of violence towards prostitutes. It could be that the mention of GTA was an example of this acceptance.

Judging from some of the comments above, I think she is right. This is a bit of a hot topic in Canada as there is an ongoing trial for a criminal who is accused of killing some 25 prostitutes and feeding them to his pigs. Pretty gruesome stuff. He has been handed 5 or 6 life sentences so far and the trial is continuing.

As others have said, flouting that "1991 and 2004, 171 female sex workers were murdered in Canada" figure and blaming video games is rather silly given that one creepy (and most likely technologically illiterate) old farmer was responsible for almost 50 of those.

However, that case alone indicates that violence against sex workers [i]is[/i] a problem, even if video games are not to blame. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it would probably help if the government would stop treating them like criminals and/or ignoring them in the hopes that they'll go away. As I understand it, prostitutes are unlikely to report a lot of the violence done to them, and the police are unlikely to care, so... that creates a very bad situation that violent folks like Pickton are well aware of.

@BlackIce, Dragunov Marksman:

I don't know. I won't pretend to be an expert on these things... but if I was in charge, I'd probably just look at other countries, see where prostitutes suffer the least violence, and try to copy whatever they're doing (assuming that human rights don't need to be violated in the process).

Wheeee, false cause!!!

I would only be shocked if someone was killing hookers with copies of gta. Dead hookers are common and have always been common.

Sex-Workers exist to fulfill a need in people who unsatisfied, that means than, for the main part, they are the resort of the lost, the aimless and the unhappy. Watching 'Pretty Woman' doesn't change the job, you can be certain that they don't see many Richard Gere lookalikes.

The problem with people who are lost, aimless or unhappy is that they have a lot of frustration, at the world, at their job, at their wives etc, and unfortunately, sometimes they take that frustration out on the only available target.

Jack The Ripper did not play GTA.

[...] Via Gamepolitics [...]

Have my fellow canucks pointed out that the Sun is basicly a tabloid yet?

Cuz yeah, it's a pretty lousy paper.

@ GameDevMich

I have to totally agree with you there. Perhaps he should hit his head on a wall a few time.

@GameDevMich, E. Zachary Knight

Ok, based on your logic, a house with no dogs, no security systems, nothing, and has just an old lady living there is just as likely to be robbed as a house with several dogs, a man or 2 that is clearly a hunter, with marked security systems and cameras?

Frankly, Prostitutes ARE more likely to be assualted. Ken wasn't saying that rape is ok, only that ones that advertise their bodies are more likely to have their bodies taken by force. I don't know of any analogies or ways to make common sense any clearer, you two are just going to have to figure it out yourselves.

If by chance I decided I wanted to rape someone, who would I do it against? A fully-clothed woman (or man, whatever), or one dressing like a total skank?

Who's the ones that need headxwall? Quit attacking someone for making a pretty clear point

Because this sort of thing totally just started after GTA came out, amirite? *eyeroll* Honestly...

@ chadachada(123)

"If by chance I decided I wanted to rape someone, who would I do it against? A fully-clothed woman (or man, whatever), or one dressing like a total skank?"

So what you're saying is that you feel that a "total skank" is more deserving of being raped then a respectable member of society? Wait - actually, what you're saying is that someone who presents themselves as a "total skank" is more deserving of rape then someone who presents themselves as a respectable member of society. Why is this?

Is this because you feel that by dressing provocatively they're enticing those rapists to commit crime? Or is it because you feel that by being "total skank[s]" they're less worthy members of society and shouldn't complain about being raped? So are you suggesting that by acting a certain way and dressing a certain way they are "asking for it," so to speak?

As to your analogy: it is completely flawed. The amount of obvious protection offered by a house (kudos to comparing a crime that destroys someone physically and emotionally to having some crap taken, by the way) will directly effect the act of robbing it in the most pragmatic way possible, but the style of dress of a woman, unless she's wearing a suit of fucking armor that's padlocked shut, isn't going to make much of a difference to a potential rapist.

Actually, the more I think about what you said the more uninformed and bigoted you become. First, just the act of comparing rape to burglary is absurd. Second, you don't understand your own analogy. Finally, you clearly have no understanding of the topic because you don't know anything about why most rapes occur.

There certainly was a time when rapes weren't considered "real" crimes and attitudes like yours were why that was the case.

Oh man, I remember back in 1991 when I first put that GTA3 disc into my PS2. That's right. I'm capable of time travel.

GTA3 didn't come out until, what, 2001? So that shrinks down their data pool by a HUGE amount. The GTA series didn't become a part of pop culture until the third installment (2001) and I don't believe either of the earlier installments had prostitutes in them.

When I first read this I thought "Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer". Being from Washington this was a BIG deal when he was caught. He was a serial killer who purely targeted prostitutes. He started his killings in the early 80's and went on for the next two decades until he was caught in 2003. Along with the murders in Washington, he's also believed to be connected to several murders (all prostitutes) in Oregon and Canada. He was quoted, saying "I killed so many women I have a hard time keeping them straight". The number of murders in Canada he is believed to be connected with seems to vary from source to source. Some have gone as far as suggesting around 40. Let's also not forget Robert "Willie" Pickton who is believed to have killed 46 people, all drug addicts and prostitutes. Both these men probably never touched a video game in their lives (both over 50) or probably even heard of Grand Theft Auto.

@tom

He's not saying that they're more desrving rather that it will be easier to do it against a skank. In other words which is either to tear off (by force) 2+ layers of clothing or clothing that barely covers anything.

@Father Time

It's like saying that playing Assassin's Creed will make one proficent at Parkour and teach you that it's ok to go around and randomly kill any Templar you see.

I swear that these people who say this stuff about games are more deluded than they think we are.

I'm not quite sure why everyone treats violence against sex workers any worse than anyone else. Were I to be walking down the street, I'm jumped and robbed or whatever, it sucks just the same.
The biggest difference is they are putting themselves in circumstances that raise the probability of such things happening to the.

I have to wonder...what were the stats of prostitutes being murderered before 1991.....because I'm pretty certain that GTA had nothing to do with women who sell sex and pleasure for money getting killed by psychopaths and criminals....

@Pimpalicious

I think the really beutifull suggestion is that pixelated prostitutes in games due more harm to society than actual prostitutes....

@pretty much everyone

The ignorance expessed in these messages is kind of surprising, especially when the whole article is read.

Nowhere in the article are they saying that in 1991, GTA caused X number of violence cases against prostitutes. The statistic was brought up to indicate the general amount of violence attributed to this occupation.

In addition, they implicate ALL pop culture, and though it is unfortunate that video games are used as an example, it doesn't necessarily mean their message is wrong.

And it seems that the messages here just underscore their point about the negative portrayal of prostitutes. When other occupation ask for protection, this isn't a big deal. I mean, it is all right when a construction worker demands OSHA standards or we demand our bank accounts are backed by the FDIC (in the US), but when sex workers ask for some protection, they somehow seem to deserve it!

Yeah, cause, y'know, Jack the Ripper, and like, 95% of all the other serial killers for the past couple of centuries, were all inspired by Grand Theft Auto.

Not to mention that you can kill anyone in the game. Yet another example of misinformation. "The player can kill prostitutes [and everyone else in the game]!"

http://baramos.bravehost.com/breakingnews.html Here, I wrote an article making fun of this like a year ago. I thought it was out of date, but here it is, back in the news!

OMG this guy'z rite. Its a conspiracy

LOOK:

"Kuzyk noted that between 1991 and 2004, 171 female sex workers were murdered in Canada. Street-level sex workers, she said, are 60 to 112 times more likely to be victims of fatal violence than the general population. "

Add 112 and 60 and you get 172, then subtract the 171 murders from 172 and U GET:

1

1 game, GTA OMG!!!! I lolz

But seriously you cannot pick that profession without being discriminated against.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'd like to think no hooker is "asking for it" when it comes to violence, but the violence occurred long before Grand Theft Auto, and to blame 13 murders a year on it, well thats just farcical.

Hookers were not a part of Grand Theft Auto till GTA 3 in 2001, so 130 murders occured without the games influence whatsoever...

@chada -

your analogy is off. What you described would be the difference between an average sized girl vs a woman who is obviously an ex-marine/ultimate fighter getting raped.

If you want to stick with your analogy of a house. It'd be the difference between a house with newer paint and it's blinds open, which might increase the chances of the house being robbed, but by an extremely negligible amount.

It's like saying Assassin's Creed teaches you to murder random civilians because you can, failing to notice that you are punished for everytime you do it. Man, makes you wonder if these peoples ever took critical thinking classes.

Hmmmm interesting play i c GTA is being blamed yet again. I personaly think that GTA and other games like it are good for venting anger not creating it. anyway if u kill the hookers in GTA you never get all your money back you end up losing some.

@chadachada - Statistics differ from common sense all the time. For instance, if you are a frequent reader of GP, then you are aware of several reports released by watch dog groups and other organizations that are anti-video games. We believe it is common sense for parents to read the ESRB rating label for a game before purchasing it for a child, but some polls and stats differ from that knowledge.

However, in this particular situation, I don't believe there is any common sense used during a sexual assault. Attackers use predatory skills, not common sense. However, if that is the term you wish to use, let me present a counter argument:

A female wearing a winter coat, scarf, boots, and jeans is less agile than a scantily clad female (skank, I believe is the term you are using negatively). She is wearing items that can be used against her: a coat which can be used to yank her in any direction, a scarf that can choke her or control her head movement, boots which do not allow for quick escape, etc. Having "quick access" to a females body does not matter in the initial attack. If you see a potential victim walking down a street, you are more than likely not going to rape her right there on the sidewalk. You need to get her into a car, into a room, and generally out of sight from the public.

Sorry to poke holes in your theory, but I do value what you have to say. I like to receive any feedback people have on this topic, especially since I am teaching more classes lately. I also like to deflate misinformation so that others will be better educated and pass that info along to their friends and family. I just happen to believe the experts I've spoken to over the past few years.

@gh0st- Wow...very well written post.

I do humbly ask that you not completely generalize everyone here, as not everyone has come to the same conclusion after reading this article.

My opinion is that frequent readers of GP, such as myself, tend to have knee-jerk reactions when a group claims video games play an influential role in the actions of violent offenders. There were some rather tasteless remarks : yeah I'm looking at you BILLY.

However, I believe the general consensus here is that the blame the industry receives more or less lacks proper reasoning without evidence.

@Baramos - Excellent reasoning. There is probably some merit to the claim that a sexual predator has a preference of the victim's appearance. Also, it must be taken into consideration that rape is a violent act with the intent of doing harm and exerting dominance.

As Teh Mommy pointed out earlier, targets are often those who are perceived as being easy prey. A large percentage of victims are usually assaulted by someone they know, and not so much by seedy unknowns creeping down a road in their car scanning for scantily clad women.

I guess my overall point, which I heavily impress upon my students, is that you should always be considered a target regardless of where you are, what you are wearing, and what you are doing.

Misinformation leads to unpreparedness, in any situation in life. Baramos made an excellent point that those who place themselves in vulnerable positions are more susceptible to harm. The victims DO NOT deserve what they endure, but what they are more vulnerable because of what they do.

Well, while I'm here, I might as well use the overplayed card: violent assault on prostitutes has been occurring long before video games were invented. To claim a recent invention is a cause or influence on violence is absurd.

strangers against predators feedback...

Thanks for your thoughtful reply...

Be real: of course this game encourages violence! What we watch, read, play, and engage in all affects our minds most profoundly.  It's like food or diet: anything we consume becomes the very stuff of our very cellular structure, just as anything we are entertained by also affects our composition, our mental landscape.   In the same way that eating unhealthy foods leads to poor health, consuming unhealthy entertainment leads to a poor mental landscape.  Duh!  We live in a reality where consequence follows action, so don't pretend to be ignorant to your own power of imagination.  

On the topic of prostitutes "deserving" to be violated because of their dress or appearance:  this is a stupid and old argument, which only seeks to place the blame for violence on the victim.  NO ONE ever deserves to be raped, murdered, or otherwise harmed, regardless of their style.  The very idea that the victim could even remotely be responsible for the violence only shows how vastly dehumanized women have become in our culture!