"I want to restore values so children are protected from a societal cesspool of filth, pornography, violence, sex, and perversion. I’ve proposed that we enforce our obscenity laws again and that we get serious against those retailers that sell adult video games that are filled with violence and that we go after those retailers."

Why do we always have the morons running for President who don't realize the ESRB DOES work? It clearly works if the parents actually read the ratings and don't blame the industry for their own stupidity of NOT reading them.

Obscenity laws? Do those include prohibition? Because if so, uh....
Fuck that.

no censorship EVER

Oh Mitt, you filthy asshole you.:)

@Christ

I think the to children is implied.

@Austin
Obscenity laws do not include prohibition. What would lead you to think that?

Pandralisk: First, (obligitory) godiwns law. olol Second, I thought you didn't like Ron Paul?

Anyways, yeah, Romney is in favor of a nanny state here. Should we really be shocked on this one?

@JQ

I don't like Ron Paul one bit. But even he has enough sense to identify a grave threat to America.

Nanny state? You mean the Socialized Christian Republic of America, =P?

I think the parents should decides whats good and bad for their kids. Because with people like this guy are making parents lazier and lazier. Even though there is a rating on front of the case and or box that says what its rated for and what age you have to be to play it. And even more info on back of the case/box that tells you what type of content is in the game.

Besides whatever happened to freedom of expression, and Video Games are an expression of some type. I feel that our forefathers that fought for our freedom and founded our country are rolling in their graves right now.

Hmm, there's a war people want out of, the environment needs cleaning up, the education system is messed up, law enforcement is messed up, criminals get out of prison meaner and more connected than ever, innocent people are criminalized for liking a band but not having the money to pay for the album, so they get the one song they want.

No, video games are totally the issue that needs to be tackled. *eyeroll*

I'm starting to think that this whole "Mitt Romney was born in Michigan" story is a crock. With such a strong focus on censorship and the Massachusetts connection, I believe that he could only be one of the original Puritan settlers from Plymouth Rock, somehow frozen in time and/or ice for hundreds of years.

Now all I need is some Photoshop skills to give him one of those silly buckle hats, and others will come to see the truth, too....

*Sigh* What a hypocrite. Doesn't he want to preserve the family? This just shows what a Neo-Con he is. Lets regulate the media because parents aren't doing their job.

I'm just sick of this nanny state Govt. has to save everyone mentality.


Sickening.

@MonkeyPeaches

And Mario would carry and M16 and Bowser would spout blood for a minute after decapitation

I grow exceedingly weary of trying to explain that the vast majority of Christians don't want to start censoring things. This smacks of pandering for political gain.

While I do tend to agree that a lot of entertainment has gone the route of shock value and heightened sexual and violent content, you can't fight that with regulation, legislation or litigation. Culture, and thereby society has to be affected at the level of the individual, through letter writing and peaceful protest. The expression of free speach to add a counter-voice, or alternative media for what being offered by the mainstream.

@pandralisk

i know this probably wont mean a damn thing to you, but just to point out isnt romney a mormon and not a christian?

(i know your probably saying its just the different side of the same coin)

(for the record i am roman catholic)
religious theocracies may not work but that doesnt mean religion should be ended

@cullarn

Not to mention that just because a religion is bullshit to your doesn't mean it's bull shit to others.

@Austin

Guess which party the alcohol industry supports.

My friend actually met Romney at her job. According to her, he was a very nice man but had trouble backing up his bullshit with facts. Since she is gay, she took him to task on the whole Civil Unions thing. They talked for an hour and she destroyed him. She also took him on the filth thing and riped him when she debated that sheltering a child does more long term harm than good. sometimes, he has a good idea here and there. But he cant back up anything he says with fact.

i wasnt saying anything negative about mormonism for the record
and while its alot like a part of christianity there are differences

(i know mormons are christians i was just dividing things into the proper sects, if that was unclear i apologize)

i meant no harm or disrespect to anyone of course
(although if jt falls and hurts himself i will laugh =p)

Sorry about before, now I know a bit more about this guy, I really hope he doesn't become President. And that small video clip about him seemed to make him sound like he is going to save the world or something.

If Mitt Romney wins, then I guess I can we can say goodbye to not just M rated and probably T rated games also, but PG 13, and R Rated, Unrated Movies, heck we all will be living in a bubble, TV will probably show nothing but Teletubies 24/7. And teens that are 17 and up and adults will have to suffer too, because they won't be able to their favorite shows or games, or read anything. I bet he will also ban Harry Potter and any books with the word Magic in it.

I always have a saying Moral is actually Immoral.

@lancan
I have more nightmares from watching teletubbies than anything else I have ever seen in my life.

I would like to clarify a few things here.

I am a "Mormon". We prefer Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or if that is too much of a mouthful, Latter-day Saints.

Second we are Christians. We believe that Jesus is the Savior of mankind and the Son of God.

Third. We do not feel that sex is filthy. Sex is an important aspect of human life, but it is something that needs to be respected. We believe that pornography marginalizes sex and temps people to disrespect the sexual process. Sex should only be between a man and a woman who have been lawfully married.

Fourth, violence is an aspect of human nature that is as old as mankind itself. It cannot be avoided. But we do feel that it is not something that should be glorified. There is violence all around us, but we do feel that people should be able to protect themselves, their families, and their property. If it comes to violence, then that is what needs done. We do not feel that violence should be used first but only as a last resort.

Not every member of our church feels the same as Romney about cleaning up media. As a church we feel that it is the family's responsibility to control the media influences that enter the home. Not the Church. Not the government. The family.

So before you guys continue to blame Romney's faith or any other faith, you need to hear this.

@Zachary

Nice speech.

Anyway, this guy seems like someone who'd like to take Québec back in the 50s if he lived there.

@AdioBam

So a conservative that's a hypocrite is a liberal? The logic boggles the mind.

When did "liberal" take on such a negative connotation?

l?b'?r-?l

adj.

1b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

The horror...the horror...

@kenji

I hope I'm reading it wrong, but AdioBam seems to take the Sean Hannity view on liberals; as someone who doesn't hold every republican value, to the letter, to heart and doesn't worship our current president as the second coming of Jesus.

Why was my comment deleted? It didn't have anything bad in it. (a response to Kenji)

"that we get serious against those retailers that sell adult video games that are filled with violence and that we go after those retailers."

thats what this is all about..... somebody should "really" get this out there because hundreds of thousands of dollars are being wasted on absolutely nothing... do you guys agree with me on this????

@ Kenji:
Yes, I was referring to Pandralisk. Sorry if I didn't make myself clearer on that.

@ Rukon Zappa:

"I hope I’m reading it wrong, but AdioBam seems to take the Sean Hannity view on liberals; as someone who doesn’t hold every republican value, to the letter, to heart and doesn’t worship our current president as the second coming of Jesus. "

Where the fuck do you get off saying these wild assumptions about me when you don't even know me?

First of all, I hate Sean Hannity, let me get that clear right now lol.
Second, I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. I dislike the extremes of both sides, and support the moderates. I think that someone who holds every single republican (or democrat) viewpoint is an idiot. That's why I'm supporting Giuliani.

Now, I should've made myself clearer. I should've said "extreme liberal", because that's what Pandralisk is.

I don't hate liberals in general or find them to be hypocrites, it's the extreme liberals that I have a problem with. Just as I have a problem with extreme conservatives. The extreme on either side is not very pleasant.

The same can be said about the extreme of the libertarian party, the anarchists.

@JC

I agree, not only will he be a bad president for wanting illegal legislation on media and restricting our rights even further, he won't solve any of the real issues facing America today

Write it up to normal poltical bull. Whenever a commercial ends with (paraphrase) "Yes this is my message and I approve of it" it is just another attempt to pipe sunlight in to their asses so they can see it.

It is agreed many times over that certain things are not appropiate for kids. My question is who gets to decide what is or isn't? Government? You have to be bloody kidding.

EZK just a note. ANY religion to date that has been against sex has not lasted. Either their members rebel or go astray (ie had sex) or they die out for lack of new blood. Education is the key, but of course this would require adults to actually be responsible... sigh

@LinkReincarnate

It doesn't have to. Why? It's politics.

republicans think the moral waters are dirty democrats think the actual waters are dirty

No no it makes a great deal of sense when you mentioned your religion understood and respected sex. The adverse is suicidal and what I commented on.

It did cause me a wonder why you felt you needed to mention the Mormon standing, but I went off on a different tangent. No insult intended.

@ E. Zach

Your defense of the Mormon Church's outlook on sex fails because the Church labels a completely natural function as "immoral" and "wrong" simply because it has been identified as such by 3,000 year old Bronze Age superstitious texts. You seem to be so entrenched in your personal moral appraisal of sex that you fail to acknowledge the fact that sex is NOT the counter intuitive and insanely strict concept that you've redefined it to be. I do not know of a single analytical concept that would define sex as "the act of reproducing between two hetrosexual people currently engaged in a state of holy and/or secular matrimony."

Sex largely refers to an activity between two people involving the passing of a genital [or external object] through some type of orifice. By claiming that consentual sex between adults is wrong in any fashion -- including between homosexuals, porn, oral, orgies, flings, etc -- you are standing against and opposing the naturalistic meaning of sex solely on unwarranted moral grounds. You have simply redefined the term to reflect your personal value system. Sex, indeed, must be respected. Respect for sex does not involve wagging your finger at people you disagree with because your persoal superstition deems it immoral.

As I've said before, it's a shame that so many evangelical Christians have chosen to mobolize against freedom and dignity in America. I usually lump Mormons into the Evangelical category, but I'm well aware of their MAJOR differences [aka the eternal word of God was supposedly discovered in upstate New York by a man who defended his faith with one of the most famous examples of a perfectly circular, question begging, argument] but most Mormon values reflect Evangelical values. Imposing faith on others and injecting religiously derived norms, Romney's crusade against gaming for example, constitutes a MAJOR aspect of contemporary Christianity. Many Christians these days are unwilling to keep their faith private, opting violate the rights of fellow citizens and enforce their perverse "values" on the unwilling.

Romney, and other GOP canidates [excluding Ron Paul, perhaps], will do everything in their power to enforce their own perverse religious norms by censoring games intended for adults. Violent and sexual games do not comprise the "ocean of filth" Romney describes. The waters of such an ocean flow from antiquated religious traditions that are currently being interperted and preached to detract from the social and economic development of the American people.

@Pandralisk

You never did even touch my questions about religions such as paganism, a religion which doesn't seek converts and to my knowledge zealots are none existant

Pandralisk,

Your opinions are well thought out and some of them are convincing to this Agnostic, but can you please either tone down the way you express them or restrict yourself to how many threads you turn into religion? Yes there has been too much crossover of church and state in politics of late and yes that is a bad thing, but can we leave some room to discuss gaming in these debates?

Pretty Please?

I see no problem with Romney going after retailers for selling M rated games to kids. If he were to go after the development process, like Clinton promises, then I would be up in arms. However, Romney's just bashing the retailers.

@GP

well said

perhaps next time pandarisk needs to post a detailed causal link between the story and his anti-religious bigotry in order to jutify raising it in the comments.

"Thats where they get their morals" is no longer a valid excuse

@GamePolitics

Now expect a post on how you're a fascist and trying to suppress the truth >

@chris

Oy, seems my post was eater, or half of it.

I meant to say,you're asking too much.

Being reabidly anti anything means you need no proof and can make up any proof you want.

Going over to that site and now on slashdot there is a story about Hillary Clinton's stance on games and it never ceases to amaze me that so many people think that film ratings in the USA are enforced by laws.
Ignorance abounds.

@Pandralisk

Debate religion if you must, but INSULT it? That's something else. I'm an atheist, too - I get your stance. Hell, we ALL do. But you're being a real asshole about it. There has to be a better way to express yourself.

@chris

I couldn't say better.

Obviously, Pandralisk never heard of Pierre Trudeau (my favorite Canadian Prime Minister).

@Pandralisk

Jack Thompson said the EXACT same thing when GP warned him.

You do not make the rules, this is not a public place like a park, and, you DO NOT tell GP what rules do and do not get enforced, which is what I think you just tried to do.

And no, you hardly debate, hell, if Dennis banned everyone here whom you deemed "protecting superstition," over half of us would be gone, then again, that's exactly what you seem to want.

It's not what's said, it's how it's said.

@jkdjr25

"You are a bigot, and a hatemonger. You simplly diguise your own brand of hate within the lie of intellectual superiority."

You call me a hatermonger simply because I articulate critcism against religious dogma, and the superstition that underpins such dogma, when a topic calls for the consideration of such dogma [for one reason or another]. Most of the time, hate intrinsic to the superstition itself, masks the positions of anti-game proponents -- and their religious apologists -- into forgeting that religious hate underpins efforts that work against this industry. A bigot and a hatemonger? I have done little more than offer superstitiously motivated attacks on the gaming industry the direct critcism they deserves. People are so ignorant of their religious faiths that COMPLETELY TRUTHFUL analytic comments -- such as the eternal word of God being found in upstate New York [mormon] or the failings of Christian values used to justify game laws because God's active involvement in genocide, and the endorsement of rape -- often appear "insulting."

I think it would be far more accurate to label you as a hatemonger. Firstly, for your normative superstitious beliefs that fundamentally devalue personal freedom and enforce artifical moral norms. Secondly, for trying to silence the voice of someone bold and genuine enough to attack a problem at its root.

@Kuri

I DO point out inconsistencies in moderation threats that stem from personal bias and intolerance. And yes, few can debate me because my comments on religion on ENTIRELY analytical 99% of the time. Those who protect superstition, when it underpins an attack on gaming rights, are just as guilty as I am for going "off-topic" (although such comments are RARELY off-topic when brought up).

@Pandrabigot

LOL

I'M the hatemonger? *laughs uproariously*

You fail. Your arguments fail because they are obviously biased. I've asked nicely that you knock of the personal attacks. Now I'm telling you. Knock. It. Off.

*Back on the topic at hand*

Personally I think Romney's just pandering to get votes. I really do believe that most people, at least the sane ones, realize that. In a way Romney reminds me Bill Clinton in that he seems to formulate opinions based on polls. That alone tells me he'd be a terrible leader. His religion has nothing to do with it. He's just a hypocrite, especially considering his newest dust up with McCain.

@pandralisk
"You call me a hatermonger simply because I articulate critcism against religious dogma, and the superstition that underpins such dogma, when a topic calls for the consideration of such dogma [for one reason or another]."

That's quite an assumption to make for one who claims to be so analytical.

@jkdjr25 (on topic)
The "for the children" line is a surefire way of getting easy votes.

Whoa. Seems like the gauntlet has been thrown.

Seriously Pandralisk, criticism of religion is something, but personal attacks on everyone who shares those beliefs is something else.

When I read his rant, I suddenly had a déjà vu.

Back on topic, Romney's really dense to me. Trying to get votes by talking about doing something he can't succeed. That's the kind of politician I don't like. The only thing they bring is deception.

Wow, totally a coincidence that there are two people that are spouting the same drivel. Nice try though, jerk.

Lets try to stay on topic guys. There are a lot of us here that are getting majorly tired to the nonsense and bigotry that people like Pandra and "Fesh" are spouting.

@ Pandralisk
"# Pandralisk Says:
December 21st, 2007 at 6:55 pm

@Conejo

Ron Paul, egh? Careful.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

I also encourage you to go to http://www.issues2000.org/Ron_Paul.htm, and learn more about a canidate who supports mandatory school prayer, opposes the minium wage, wishes to destory the department of education, advocates a shift to consumption taxation, desires to dismantle social security, and effectively cripple the federal government for future generations, =).


# Pandralisk Says:
December 22nd, 2007 at 12:00 pm

@JQ

I don’t like Ron Paul one bit. But even he has enough sense to identify a grave threat to America.

Nanny state? You mean the Socialized Christian Republic of America, =P?"

Hmmm, you post these, and we can all see you are just a democratic shill. Nothing against democrats individually. Seriously though, you think its ok when democrats are for legislation of media, cause they are just pandering (see what i did there) for votes, but when republicans are for legislation instantly it is all "TEH RELIGISH FASCISTS" blah blah blah "BUBEL THIMPERS" rant. Seriously, everyone can see your bias, and when you are confronted about it you get all whiney, and complain.
You Fail.

@Pandralisk

You seem to have a huge ego too. What I got out of that was "I can't be moderated and I am always right"

There is nothing anylityical about insulting an entire religion regardless of whom practices it and why. If your comments get moderated it is NEVER religiously motivated but just you being asked to follow the site rules. If moderation on a site could be religiously motivated I would have been banned from, say, Gaia or here along time ago for mentioning that I'm a pagan.

And there can be no religion mentioned in an article, NONE, however, when you see a person's political side,you start spewing generalizations. You never listen to anyone else's input, you say the same things over and over again, and iy's almost always unwarranted, no matter how youspin it.

rdeegvainl, I figured I would add to you in particular that there *isn't* any scientific evidence in support of intelligent design 'theory' (I say 'theory', because it fails to meet the basic criteria of a hypothesis, much less have the support or evidence required to classify it as a theory). In addition, home-schooling is very often little more than a tool used by religious fundies to brainwash (abuse) their children.

All Ron Paul is interested in doing is crippling the federal government, to the point where each state is essentially its own country, with its own laws, and effecting an end-run around those factions interested in protecting the rights of those who do not comform with religious concepts such as marriage, or the fact that life does not begin at the moment of conception. He intends to do this by disabling the federal government from making these decisions, and instead letting the states decide.

kurisu7885, perhaps that is indeed the attitude that pandralisk possesses. But, if you look at it from a reasonable perspective, it is born from mere frustration. Religion is, for some unknown reason, considered a subject beyond reproach, and when faced with the horrible harm it does to individuals and their personal liberties, merely stick their fingers in their ears and humm loudly.

ROMNEY brought religion into this, by offering several statements to to effect of 'freedom requires religion', which is, ironically, a statement in diametric opposition to fact.

jkdjr25, I will express my opinion on such subjects as their raise themselves, which romney is an arch-religious evangelical nutbag who wants to inject his religion into the politics which affect my life, including the video game legislation discussed.

If my posts will be deleted, or my IP banned because I raise these highly relevant issues, then so be it. That is the prerogative of this site's owner. But I will not stick my fingers in my ears and hum loudly, merely on threat of being banned from a website on the internet.

chris - in a word, yes.

the christian mythology builds around itself a type of self-justifying pesudomorality, which by extension dictates every action those who are indoctrinated into said cult take. Thus, the assholes are given direction.

That is not to say Romney might be an evil moron even without religion, but he would certainly go about it differently, and might find other issues to latch on to. And, he certainly wouldn't be a politician in this country, as it is fairly impossible for an atheist to get elected to anything beyond mayor of a bus stop in the united states of jesus.

jkdjr25,

1) look at the literature, stalin was not actually an atheist, nor did he truely espouse atheistic principles. In addition, atheism does not automatically convey any sort of 'moral high ground.' It merely illustrates and exemplifies an unwillingness to believe in things that are not real, or to, to move into the next point, use said beliefs of others in things that are not real in order to gain power.

2) religion is nothing more than a tool for social control - someone once said, and I find it particularly illustrative in this situation - The common find religion to be true, the wise find it to be false, and the rulers find it to be useful.

I love it, everyone who puts religion in the correct categorization, ie, with every other mental illness which involves having a firm conviction in things that do not exist, they are a 'bigot'