
Do ultra-violent films like
Saw and
Hostel actually increase public safety?
And, if so, what is the implication for violent video games?
As reported by the
New York Times, a pair of researchers have challenged traditional beliefs that violent films spur violent behavior. In a paper presented at the American Economic Association's annual meeting in New Orleans, Gordon Dahl (left) of the University of California at San Diego and Stefano DellaVigna of UC Berkeley concluded that potentially violent criminals are unable to harm others because they are safely tucked away in cineplexes instead. Said Dahl:
You’re taking a lot of violent people off the streets and putting them inside movie theaters. In the short run, if you take away violent movies, you’re going to increase violent crime.
Dahl and DellaVigna base their argument on crunching the numbers. They say that over the last 10 years, the showing of violent films has prevented about 1,000 assaults per weekend.
Freakonomics at its finest?
Perhaps, but media violence researcher
Craig Anderson of Iowa State University is skeptical:
There are hundreds of studies done by numerous research groups around the world that show that media violence exposure increases aggressive behavior. People learn from every experience in life, and that learning occurs at a very basic level of brain function.
Dahl and DellaVigna, however, do not attempt to refute past research on the effects of media violence, nor do they address the long term results of exposure to violent films. Instead, their research is tightly focused on the times during which violent films are shown and the periods immediately afterward. Said Dahl:
Economics is about choice. What would these people have done if they had not chosen to go and see a movie? Whatever they would have done would have had a greater tendency to involve alcohol. If you can incapacitate a large group of potentially violent people, that’s a good thing.
Melissa Henson of the Parents Television Council was concerned about how Dahl and DellaVigna's research might be interpreted:
The study’s premise strikes me as somewhat goofy. I’d hate for people to walk away with the message that, ‘Oh, I ought to send my son to watch violent movies so they won’t go out and drink or do drugs and commit violent crime.’ What about going to the Y.M.C.A. and playing basketball, or after-school activities?
What do the numbers say? From the NYT article:
From 6 p.m. to midnight on weekends — when the largest numbers of people are in theaters — violent crimes decreased 1.3 percent for every million people watching a strongly violent movie, the study found. Violent crimes dropped 1.1 percent for every million seeing a mildly violent film.
In the hours after theaters close — from midnight to 6 a.m. the next day — violent crimes dropped 1.9 percent for every million people at a strongly violent movie, and by 2.1 percent for every million at mildly violent film. Strikingly, the data shows that crimes also drop, though not by as much, when large audiences see nonviolent films that young men find appealing.
Dahl concludes that any movie - not just the violent type - which appeals to male teens and 20-somethings is likely to reduce bloodshed on the streets:
We need more Adam Sandler movies. Even though I’m not a big fan of Adam Sandler, that’s the implication.
GP: There is no mention of violent video games from Dahl and DellaVigna. We wonder, however, whether similar conclusions can be drawn. For example, will young males be inside playing
Grand Theft Auto IV when it launches in April rather than finding trouble out on the streets?
Comments
This kind of thinking is what spawned the idiot, the noob, and worst of all, the mindset jack thompson has.
lemme get this straight, by not being on the streets, they aren't being violent. what happens after the movie? they go back to being violent!
violent people don't become violent because of videogames and they don't become violent because of movies. violent people are ATTRACTED to violence.
It's stupidity at it's finest.
also: since the gist of dahl is basically "to stop violence in the streets, remove the streets" what happens if someone dies in the theatre?
Where's Epic Fail Guy when you need him?
The FBI youth crime ratings already proved that with every release of a GTA game, the crime rate goes down.
I also love how the PTC assumes that this study means that we should have our kids watching violent movies instead of playing tee ball.
Also I'm still a bit unclear on how they are reaching these numbers. There is no controlled experiment here, just a bunch of numbers and strong assumptions.
Give people something to do besides commit crimes, and they won't commit crimes.
But you need to keep in mind, the activity you are providing has to be something they enjoy or the liekly hood of violent crimes committed might increase.
Idle hands are the Devil's plaything and all that.
what I'm curious is what about violent crime committed by women, do violent movies decrease the crime rate or do chick flicks?
In any case, I'm going to try to find the journal article and read it.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think its between 2am-3am that there is an increase in violence.
Closing bars itself causes an increase in violence, as all the people inside (in an enclosed space with limited movement) are now outside, drunk, and nowhere to get a drink. And that guy over there just looked at their girlfriend funny. That's why the authorities make them stagger their closing times - for large night clubs they even have to close in stages to stop large crowds gathering on the streets.
When we learn behaviors we also process real-world consequences with those behaviors. Which is why people tend point out unbelievable plot elements. "That can't happen" is a statement people make because they are processing the material on-screen and analyzing the risk/reward for extreme action, realizing that it is an impossibility in the real world.
Film-goers and video-game players both tend to enjoy such pastimes with a healthy suspension of disbelief for the purpose of enjoying a variety of media genres. Now if suspension of disbelief is reduced based upon the immersive-ness of the media, then perhaps we have a feasible study!
I think the economists here have a decent enough point- if people are off the streets and in theatres, they're not bludgeoning someone to death. Violent people are more often attracted to violent movies, and so, violent people [while] watching violent movies are being violent. To me, this study suggests that community/public activities which successfully appeal to violent people will reduce violent crimes by subtracting violent people from dangerous environments.
Maybe "A Clockwork Orange" example would have been appropriate somewhere.
@some guy
From what i can guess, they are probably looking at records to crimes that are committed during "such and such" hours and then looking at how many million people were watching movies at that time... they probably then looked at different days and different weeks seeing as the number of people going to movies will vary greatly between "opening day" and when no new film are coming out, along with how many people go to the movies on the weekend as opposed to during the week, and other stuff like that. One thing they probably noticed was stuff like how on "opening weekend" for a new film crime rates were lower then they were during the previous week at the same time when their was no new film showing.
however, if this is the case then it's a correlation study and not a causation study... which as we know can not be considered solid proof. Though grant it, considering how long they may have done this study, it may be a fairly consistent correlation.
Wrong, EZK has got it instead. Freakonomics style studies need to be read very, very carefully, for exemple the one that says that legalized abortion lowers crime rates. With the feedback loop closing a good 15 to 20 years away.
Idle hands are the devils playthings. Really, that's what the study is saying. As long as you are doing one thing, you can't do something else. The same people could play poker, watch a football game, or go on a date. These are all activities that could prevent a violent person from acting violently (at least untill it's over). The real threat is when they get bored...
The study, if it can be called that, points out that this is merely an observation of short-term benefits gained by attracting potentially violent people to non-violent passtimes. It's not supposed to be a scientific study or proof or great new revelation, and it doesn't claim that causation is scientifically validated by this observation, although that is the conclusion they draw. It's just a recognition that--regardless of all potential longterm effects of violent media--in the short term, there are immediate and apparently consequential benefits of entertainment that keeps violent people there instead of out being violent.
A comment that removing violent media would cause an increase in violent crimes in the short run is logical, not silly. They're not claiming anything for the longterm, which is where media-violence studies try to suggest harm, but putting forth a really obvious truism that removing things that engage violent people in nonviolent activities frees them up to be violent.
unforunately, with that logic I can ask why we don't continually sedate criminals and parolees
I mean if they aren't councious they obviously can't commit crimes.
Second, this type of "research" isn't helping any. It's the same dog and pony show as Thompson's researchers. The conclusions may be coincidental (like my theory of the corrupting power of milk!)
Until the APA (or other psychological association) comes out with a study that shows a definitive causal link between violent media and real life violence or definitive proof that it does not, then we're all just spinning our wheels.
Going back to the study itself, I'm actually glad that someone is doing a study to counter all those "violence kills the brain, then the brain kills people" arguements. The fact that it makes much more sense then half of those other arguements helps, too.
If that isn't obvious, then I'm queen of America.
Hopefully in the midst of having his license revoked. :P
@monte:
sadly, EFG isn't smart enough to put that 2 and 2 together. :P
I give you fair warning; if I walk into a theatre and find nothing but Adam Sandler movies they will have to create a new buzzword for the kind of violence that will happpen. :)
I would like to see a proper study into whether truely violent people can be placted by violent media, or whether it encourages them to become more violent in real life. That would be interesting. Wouldn't want to assemble the test subjects though.
Video games on the other hand, can take 60+ hours to complete, and then there's replay value. By being interactive, they allow the user to release his/her aggression.
It's not much, but it probably bears some further looking into.
Actually, economists are more interested in how money flows, and what drives decisions that people and the market make. For example, look at the concept of Cost/Utility (exact term escapes me) where someone looks at two options and decides what gets them more utility for a given cost. Basically will I be better off by buying a can of Soda A or Soda B, given that A costs $1 and B costs $1.50?
From the article, they're arguing that violent people use this same thought process, but instead compare the cost of being violent (for whatever reason) and going to see a violent movie. And according to their results, it seems that a portion prefer seeing the movie rather than going out and curbstomping someone. This isn't exactly hard to believe, considering that if they get the same kick out of watching Hostel 2 compared to shooting bystanders with paintball guns, and Hostel 2 is somewhat cheaper AND dosen't have any criminal risk...
Secondly, this isn't exactly the thing that the APA can reliably test. They'd have to first off find willing subjects to study (a rather hard notion when we're talking about people who commit violent acts), then find enough of them with enough variation to cancel out other factors (race, religion, economic factors) and then somehow strip out ALL the other causes of violence or restraint before they can do a definitive report one way or the other. A notch more complicated than diagnosing a case of dementia...
what it doesn't do is get people who CUT funding to other-than-crime activities to give a crap.
"what it doesn’t do is get people who CUT funding to other-than-crime activities to give a crap."
True, but it does give the people trying to stop such cuts a bit more ammo.
Likely nto enough ammo. After all, if there wasn't as much crime what nice things would the politicians have left to say to get elected?
Let's say you want to play sports, but you're not very athletic, and you feel that you can't take the physical abuse that comes with playing sports in rela life. Why do people play Madden and FIFA?
Or, you like fast cars and street racing, but as any sane person should know, racing on public streets, especially with real sports cars (riced-out Honda Civics don't count) is dangerous, does a number on the air quality, and illegal. Why do people play NFS and Initial D?
I've been invited places before, but turned them down cause I was too tired, as well as been invited places but turned them down because I was going to see a movie or play a video game. Doing something in general, not just violent movies and whatnot, prevent crimes. Like the Romans said, to keep the masses in line, you only need to provide two things, circuses and bread.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, released in Fall 2004. Coincidentally, according to the New York Times, "the nation's murder rate declined last year for the first time since 2000" in 2004.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/18/politics/18crime.html