"Doctors are pushing to have gaming declared an official addiction"

bad. bad television personality.

(liz wooley and her entire "blame the games because I didn't help him myself" spiel)

STOP IT mrs Wooley. we've heard these lies enough. just STOP.

Well I have to admit I can't blame her for crusading, she's a bereaving parent who wants a simple answer for her child's death.

Now as you said why didn't she do anything if she saw this happening. When her son lost his job, when he got evicted. These things take money, resources, internet, computer. She could have refused to give him these things at any time and she could have broken the chain.

We have to face the fact that videogames can be addictive, just like anything else. But we also need to stand up and point out that addictive properties do not make something unusable or result in everyone becoming addicted to them. Videogames do need a support structure like AA, like psychological study and understanding in order to help the people who DO become addicted. However banning them, outlawing them and censoring them is not a valid answer.

I liked the people they got for this debate while they seemed a bit nervous. They came off as so much more informed than Mrs. Wooley. And that other girl while she didn't say much made a good point of how anything can become addictive if your unhappy and the thing your're addicted to gives some form of pleasure in return. I don't know if I would say addiction to MMORPG games are a rising concern, but it is something we have to look into.

@Questionmark
Well said.

"Now as you said why didn’t she do anything if she saw this happening. When her son lost his job, when he got evicted. These things take money, resources, internet, computer. She could have refused to give him these things at any time and she could have broken the chain."


to be fair, she did try, when her son moved in with her, he was not using his computer (i can only assume he didn't have it based on the wiki on him) and she insisted he enter a group home to make some friends other then online friends, and over all this was working, however, when he moved out of the group home and got a new job it all started again when he went out and bought a new computer

(this information can all be found in his wiki which GP so nicely linked for us)

“Doctors are pushing to have gaming declared an official addiction”

What doctors? That line is irresponsible. The only 'doctors' pushing to have it recognized as an addiction are the ones running detox clinics. Pseudo-pyschology and a grieving mother DO NOT MIX.

Get help Liz, and stop demonizing video games because you find it emotionally convenient to blame them for your son's suicide.

Well, in all honesty, when games advertise themselves with lines like 'The most addictive title you'll pick up all year!', which I've seen a few times, it really doesn't help matters.

I do understand Ms Wooleys' concerns, and I am saddened that her son got so obsessed with a computer game, however, if we are to prevent this happening again, maybe, instead of asking 'Where was he escaping to?', we should be asking 'What was he escaping from?', that would probably give a far greater clue to what the cause of addiction is than any amount soap-box phsychology.

So wait.

Her son was an idiot, and this makes her a useful source of information?

Her son was living out an escapist reality, probably because his life sucked (could it have to do with Ms. Wooley being a helicopter mom?).

So, if one of my kids dies, can i start making up psychological findings too? Can I fudge reports and bullshit my way on TV?

Why does the news like to feed the idiots so much?

@DeusPayne

Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head in regard to science in this country.

Activists excel at convincing people. Academics excel at actually knowing things. Thus the public will always listen to the activist.

I can't help, but think of the Adam vs. Adam skit on G4 about video game addiction.

"So you've never heard of someone neglecting their work, school, or even their personal relationships for the sake of a game?"
"Of course, I have. It's called being a jerk!"

"What do you know about addiction anyway?"
"Whoa. Look at the time. I gotta go."

OK, now that I look like an ass...

I believe that her son may have been addicted to EverQuest. It's possible. But he could of just as easily been addicted to his car, or chocolate, the McDonald's Big Mac, or a myriad of other things. I wish people would stop saying that they are addicted to gambling, or video games, or even alcohol. You are not addicted to it. You have an addictive personality. You could just as easily become addicted to reading Time magazine as playing WoW. Like Christina (in the video) said, it's all a matter of whether or not it fills a void in your life and makes you happy.

I'm sorry that Liz Woolley's son, Shawn, died, but she has to face facts. He killed himself. No matter what else was happening in his life, his death was the result of his own actions. No one else was responsible. Not even EverQuest.

I agree, that the academic guy was suffering from the "Ron Paul" effect. He knows better, he makes good points, but comes off as nervous and erratic.

Take away the computer, or password protect it. Engage her son in an intervention group. Treat him with medicine. All these things would have helped cut down on her son's addiction.

he made a point about it being just like rockandroll/comic books
oh and the reason the negative was focused on more was because it sells better than "stupid bitch makes wild claim"

Let compare video games to the whole comic books. Comics were thought to be to violent/sexual (sound familiar?)
Comics first major hit..lets say superman was in 1938 the success drawing the attention of the vulture like lawyers then bang after a few years comic books got a little too gruesome for some people and tada The CCA was created(1954) which as of 2007 is only vaguely still around

Ok so if we use the same time line as comics video games start coming under fire about 20 years after the first major hit if we take that to be pong which came out in 1972 then lawsuits should have started building up around 1992 which is about when doom came out (1993)
And if also like comic books it takes roughly 50 years to break free of this then we have about 34 more years of this(2042)...what fun

Yikes and that’s your future predication for today

There is a difference between physically addictive and psychologically addictive. Psychologically addictive would be things like gambling, and yes certain video games. Argueably, video game addiction is no where near as bad as gambling addiction (both are based off a rush of excitment, the "high"). But both if taken to extremes can be devestating (easier for gambling as you can lose tons of money in a very very short period of time, where as with gaming, even MMOs, what? 30 a month for DSL? 15 for the subscription?)

psychological addiction can produce physical reaction to withdrawals, it's because psychological addiction is mostly based on chemicals in the brain which are released that cause pleasure (this is why it feels so good to get the last hidden room in a game or win that match)

The withdrawal symptoms aren't nearly as physical as say a heroine addict, but you can get shaky, nausea, headaches. More likely though you get psychological affects, depression, anger, paranoia, loss of sense of reality, sleep deprivation.

As many people have said though, it's the person not the game and needs to be considered a possibility for everyone, but not something that should be considered a real threat warranting a ban or censorship.

Wow. That's my local news station. Wasn't expecting to see this. They're notorious, in my eyes, for having some really really crooked news stories/debates that are bound to severely misinform people. *seethe*

ONE***

The culprit in this story is the entertainment shows we watch for information, I think their called news channels.

People like Liz and JT aren't the real problem here, its the people who give them the podium.

Think about it, if they aren't given the podium, then they have no authority to say that they are right and as a result only a handful of loud mouth lemmings follow them off the cliff. They would be the modern day Nationalistic Socialists.

However, FOX and all of the other entertainment channels continue to imbue them with romantic power, giving him such dangerous poetic labels (in the words of Dr.Breen) as School Shooting Expert or Video Game Expert. I do not think that the entertainment channels do this to cause harm because the debate over violent video games is somewhat insignificant in the face of other problems that endanger our world today and the entertainment channels use it for holding people's attention so that they do not change the channel but I believe that to let this continue is potentially dangerous and irresponsible.

As one of the commentators said before, Activists draw a bigger crowd than Academics. This is most likely due to conventional wisdom being easier for the uneducated to understand and as more of the uneducated join the flock of lemmings, the lemmings grow in influence and power. To all those who say that lemmings cannot gain power, remember this:

Once upon a time, a group of lemmings who started in the 1920's in Germany, were allowed to grow. Within 20 years, they had declared war on the world.

So to stop JT and the other lemmings from growing any further, we must request or demand the podium from those who give it to the lemmings and challenge their coventional wisdom.

But this will probably not happen because we are Academics, not Activists.

Here I was going to also mention she could've got Jack to even "help" her out and then I do a little more looking and see that was exactly the case though I can't seem to find info on the outcome of the suit.

Oh and okay so I guess people do still play Everquest, well Everquest II.

I probably should have remembered that since I seem to recall their tag teaming the comments back in the LJ days...

I had a very brief chance to post on OGA before i got kicked off the boards. I believe OGA is not a organization but a cult. Their whole system is bulit off of a cultic system. Also no one wants to believe its their problem it was all the game. It sickend me when people compared it to drugs and booze. The part that saddens me is that Mrs. Woolley only blames the game.

This is just further proof Woolley has no idea what she is talking about... This is a semi post in responce to someone going back to playing MMOs

lizwool

« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2007, 02:55:07 PM »



Many people today, have little social skills in the real world, because all they do is play games. They cannot be supportive to you. for this very reason.

Liz



I like how she didn't incluse anything supportive...i like how she kept it in her lil cultic circle, her only safe area where she can't be hurt.

I had a very brief chance to post on OGA before i got kicked off the boards. I believe OGA is not a organization but a cult. Their whole system is bulit off of a cultic system. Also no one wants to believe its their problem it was all the game. It sickend me when people compared it to drugs and booze. The part that saddens me is that Mrs. Woolley only blames the game.

This is just further proof Woolley has no idea what she is talking about… This is a semi post in responce to someone going back to playing MMOs

lizwool

« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2007, 02:55:07 PM »

Many people today, have little social skills in the real world, because all they do is play games. They cannot be supportive to you. for this very reason.

Liz



I like how she didn’t incluse anything supportive…i like how she kept it in her lil cultic circle, her only safe area where she can’t be hurt.


(reply 2)

well, i play mmo's , and i might be addictided, im also addicted to air, as well as food.

mmo's are good things for people who may have facial deformations or be taunted for appearance. they can have normal conversations with other people without the whole "FATTY" and "THE MONSTER" taunts accocated with any other social enviroment.
i have also found that as i have started playing mmo's my real world social skills have improved. i have also learned alot about economics by studing the prices of in game items. so to the liz that replied on reply 1, your statement is false

koku

The broad is a wacko who wants to blame anyone or anything but herself for being a failed parent.

Am I the only one who's really tired of 40 and up year old people making joking references to their pong days to try and somehow seem relevent to the debate on video games?

Thank you for posting this. This is the first time I saw the clip.

After reading the responses, I see that most people here have no idea about the struggle we did go through, to try and get Shawn off of that game.

Shawn was not living at home during most of our struggle. He was an adult.

He became a different person, after he started playing Everquest.

I am a very "hands on" parent. We went to thereapists, I had him put in a group home and a Long Term Support program. I banned him from using my computer. I hid the modem and keyboard. He became a different person after he started playing Everqeust.

Understand, our organization is for people who have went overboard with the games and who are looking for help.

Gaming can be social, and fun for some people.

I get letters EVERY day from people looking for help, be it the parent, the spouse or the gamer. Gaming has ruined their lives. This DOES happen to some people. You all know it, just as well as I do.

There is no reason, that people who need help should be denied it, and be made fun of because of it.

My son is not the only person who died because of games. Here is an article about the "latest" death, that I have heard of:

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9824251/detail.html

Mother: Father Killed Child Over Video Game
Tyrone Spellman, 25, Faces Murder Charges And Others

POSTED: 7:27 pm EDT September 11, 2006
UPDATED: 12:52 pm EDT October 17, 2006

PHILADELPHIA -- A 25-year-old North Philadelphia man has been charged with killing his young daughter.

The mother said 17-month-old Alayiah was violently punched by Tyrone Spellman over a video game.

"My baby is gone at the hands of her father," Mia Turman said tearfully. "I have to put her in the ground, I shouldn't have to do this."

As the 21-year-old took a nap inside their row-home on the 1500 block of 29th Street, Turman left Alayiah in the care of Spellman, who also goes by the name Anwar Salahuddin.

Turman said that when she woke, "I asked why my baby not breathing. He says, 'She's breathing.' Her eyes were closed."

Turman phoned police around noon. Medics responded and took Alayiah to Temple University Hospital, where the little girl was pronounced dead at 12:37 p.m.

Police arrested Spellman, who lives on the 1500 block of North 29th Street, over the weekend.

He was charged with murder, endangering the welfare of a child and possessing an instrument of crime.

A medical examiner performed an autopsy on the child.

"His confession was she pulled the cords in the game, the system is -- the box itself -- fell, and he was upset and then responsible for paying for the game, so he hit her in her face twice," Turman said, adding that Spellman also allegedly slung the child over a chair.

Eight-months pregnant with another baby girl, Turman was struggling with how to cope. She said she fell in love with a man who had never been violent before, and she wanted to know what would possess someone to kill a child.

"You can't give me a good enough answer to say why you would kill your baby," Turman said.

The couple's second baby will be born with her dad charged with killing the sister she never met.

"I do not understand this. I will never understand this," Turman said.

NBC 10 reporter Deanna Durante said a note on the door of the North Philadelphia row-home Monday night said not to judge Spellman because he would never hurt a child.

Liz