MTV Talks to Cooper Lawrence & GP Asks: Is it Time for Gamers to Forgive?
MTV Talks to Cooper Lawrence & GP Asks: Is it Time for Gamers to Forgive?
January 31, 2008
Stephen Totilo at MTV News has new comments from self-help author Cooper Lawrence, who likely needs no introduction to gamers following 10 days of nonstop coverage of the Fox News / Mass Effect debacle.Lawrence's remarks, issued in a statement to MTV, were mostly conciliatory, although she dug her heels in on a couple of points:
In hindsight, I would have liked to have had the opportunity to play this game before appearing on the program. As a developmental-psychology expert, I was asked to appear on this particular show to discuss the broader issue of video games and their impact on developing adolescents, not as an expert on 'Mass Effect...'
I firmly stand by the research I cited that violence and sexual content in video games has a desensitizing effect on young developing minds.
Lawrence also criticized gamers' guerrilla use of Amazon.com's review feature to trash her book:
I believe that the customer-review feature on Amazon.com is not the appropriate forum to discuss an unrelated news segment. I appeared on a news program that provides an opportunity for debate on topics that have been previously covered by the media. Amazon's customer-reviews feature functions as a platform to review a product sold on their site, in this case my book, the topic of which does not relate to video games and/or 'Mass Effect.'
Previously, in an interview with Seth Schiesel of the New York Times, Lawrence said:
I recognize that I misspoke. I really regret saying that, and now that I’ve seen the game and seen the sex scenes it’s kind of a joke.
Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it’s like pornography. But it’s not like pornography. I’ve seen episodes of ‘Lost’ that are more sexually explicit.
GamePolitics Poll: While Fox News rides out the Mass Effect storm unapologetically, Cooper Lawrence has borne the brunt of gamers' wrath.
Given that she has owned up to making inaccurate comments about Mass Effect, our latest GamePolitics poll asks whether it is time for gamers to forgive Cooper Lawrence.
The poll is located atop the right sidebar.
Be sure to vote!
Comments
The Mass Effect issue has nothing to do with her books. The fact that she was willing to sell her credibility has EVERYTHING to do with any volume of work she might publish.
I would really like her to shed some light on whether this was a coincidence of errors or a smear campaign for ratings, my suspicions being to the latter.
Wait... wait... so where's the apology for that then. To me, that's just as much slander as the Mass Effect crap.
"Darling, I gotta go with the research. And the research says there’s a new study out of the University of Maryland right now that says that boys that play video games cannot tell the difference between what they’re seeing in the video game and the real world…"
From the abstract of the study she cites on MTV News:
"The aim of this study is to assess late adolescents' evaluations of and reasoning about gender stereotypes in video games...Males are more likely than females to find stereotypes acceptable."
http://yas.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/38/4/395
I don't have any way to read the full article, but it looks like she hadn't read it either and misunderstood what the study was about. It is a huge leap from finding stereotypes acceptable to not being able to tell the difference between a game and reality.
I'll vote for not sure until we know if this is a mistake or misinformation.
How? She can just shift-delete emails. It's an easy habit to get into when you receive lots of angy emails.
People went after her meal-ticket, and got results. Now, base insults, threats, and spam are dirty tactics and are plain wrong. But reviewing her book with, "She doesn't research what she talks about!" or, "I am making a point to review this book without reading it, just like she does on TV!" are effective arguements. Which she couldn't ignore.
- She knowingly went on the air and PRETENDED to be an expert on a topic she knew nothing about.
- She only did so to promote another one of her quasi-pshchology books.
- She is a man-hating feminist (part of the reason she was on the show- games are played mostly by men)...no different from a white supremacist, black panther, or other hate group.
This is a person with NO integrity. She deserves no sympathy- she got caught in the act.
Should people lay off the book smear? Absolutely: there's only so long you can get away with that crap before she ends up looking cleaner than you do. Should she be forgiven? Never. She doesn't seem to understand, or be willing to admit, the full extent of her mistake. So long as this incident is hanging over her head, maybe she won't sink to that level of unprofessionalism just to sell a story. If it happens again, her Amazon ordeal will look like a child's birthday party compared to the housewrecker I'll help throw.
"I believe she should be forgiven, yes. In fact I think the fact that games assaulted her book’s Amazon page was entirely unnecessary, and only served to speed up the damage control she would’ve inevitably performed anyhow."
I'm sorry, but WHAT could possibly make you think "she would've inevitably performed" any kind of damage control whatsoever if the Amazon bomb hadn't been dropped on her? There would have been no damage to control.
The big culprit is EA? I seriously hope you meant Fox....
Darling, she is missing the larger problems with her actions.
The bigger problem here, if Fox News.
So in summary to that mess: who gives a fuck about her? She’s rescinded her stupidest comments and the rest are easily debunked as well. We have bigger Foxes to fry :D
As for not using Amazon's review section to retaliate - gamer's didn't have the chance to go on Fox news and say their piece like she did. They have to use whatever medium is available to rebutt her lies. So yes, Amazon's review section is appropriate.
it showed her that she can't just go around spouting lies and expect to make money.
and no, Fox News did not give proper allotment to counter her false claims. it is disingenuous to even think that. the one gamer who did speak for us (and did as well as he was able) was treated rudely, unfairly, and with extreme bias.
since she has publicly retracted her false claims, i think it is time to accept the apology and move on. nothing more needs to be done about her right now.
@ lumi
No, I do "get it." I get that people are angry about a slight they received in the media. I get that they feel they've been pushed around too long and they finally have a way to fight back. I understand that. What I a(and a lot of other posters) am saying is that this is not, and shouldn't, be only about Cooper. It should be about finding a way to take that anger and frustration and use it to do something more productive than clicking stars on Amazon.
This is obviously not the last time that gamers are going to be attacked. So what do we do the next time it happens? We need to have a voice, and I'm saying that we should use this incident as a way to create a way to respond to such attacks in the future, rather than wasting our effort on a method which has no long-term value.
To extend your analogy, we DO NOT want to be the child that responds once to a bully's attack with an unexpected violent act. We need to be the child who responds, but then also takes the hard road to get the school to make rules and take steps to ensure that ALL bullies are deterred from bullying, not just the one bully in that one instance.
@ Timmay!
If someone is badmouthing you in public, do you feel it's your right to do whatever you want to do to them, simply because they're saying things about you that are untrue? Do you sit there and do nothing? No, you take appropriate measures - and that's all I am asking for.
And I agree with you - what we need to do is not limit this fight to just the people like Cooper. We need to take it to those like Fox News, because (as everyone else has already said) they are the real culprits here. We can't waste our time and effort mucking about on Amazon.com when the real fight is elsewhere. We need to organize and make real change so that gamers have a voice which can be heard loud and clear when something like this goes down. Isn't that what we all really want - to have an actual say in this cultural battle? Or am I mistaken?
Now...if only those that owned that airtime (FOX) could be held accountable to any extent of their wallets being hit as well...
She must understand that blind distaste on media is distasteful, she fails to factor in the infulance humans have on media and not what media dose to them.
Wyvern
Meh it only parataily works after a point you need to stop scorning zee earth.
I get the feeling that logic doesn't feature heavily in her thesis?
That said, whilst I don't agree with them, I think the guerilla tactics by some gamers of defacing her Amazon book ratings was totally credible. Now that she knows how it feels to be slammed without being given fair and proper treatment, I sincerely doubt she'll ever do it again. Plus, it serves as a warning to other critics to check their facts in case they "misspeak".
Next time, we go 4chan on your asses.
That being said, shame on Fox for letting her hang out to dry without admitting guilt on their part.
She obviously has no problem pushing crap and bullshit and I seriously doubt that she has suddenly changed her ways.
No forgiveness! No forgetting!
and as always the irony of the attacks makes me smile, intentional or not there is poetry to it.
Yeah lady, you misspoke big time and it won't all go away because you think you apologized enough.
To pacify me, she would have to call out Fox News for leading her into making false statements, and also she needs to cite these 'studies' she mentions (like any real scientist would). But she wants to have the ability to appear their again (making more money for lies), so she won't.
I'm still wating for the studies she's abusing to come into light. She's making a fairly bold claim - that young men can't separate fantasy from reality. Burden of Proof, meet Cooper Lawrence. I'm sure you haven't met before.
Lawrence Quotes:
"We know that all the research shows that violence has a desensitizing effect. Well, sexuality does too…"
Proof please.
"Right, and a young boy’s going to be choosing not to have sex. That’ll be what they choose. I mean, let’s be realistic here -"
Way to marginlize and stereotype young boys. Sexist. I'm still waiting for this to be addressed.
"And the research says there’s a new study out of the University of Maryland right now that says that boys that play video games cannot tell the difference between what they’re seeing in the video game and the real world…"
What study? And I will read he whole thing - not just skim the summary and use it how I want.
Am I being unreasonable? Maybe. But reason left town when she set foot on the Fox News set.
If she were just some Jane-Smane off the street being asked for a comment about something, even knowing little about it, maybe.
BUT, she was called as an "expert". Moreover, when asked specific questions regarding a specific game and its contents, she LIED regarding her knowledge of it. Moreover, when asked during this "debate" if she had played the game, she LAUGHED and said "no", giving the general audience the impression of "I'm an 'expert', I know EVERYTHING and don't NEED to research squat. I'm an 'expert' and you should take what I say at face value, even if it's a lie."
What would the intelligent thing to do have been? When asked specifically about a game she knew nothing about, she should have flatly told the truth. "I was called to be on this show for general issues and wasn't told I'd be discussing a specific game. I have not played the game in question and haven't been given the opportunity to research properly information on it. So I can't comment on specific details regarding the game. Someone earlier told me it contains 'pornography', but that's hardly enough research for me to properly comment on it."
Would that have been so hard?
So, no, no forgiveness, no forgetting.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
I will, however, take this opportunity to remind people to look at their own hypocrisy when threatening those they speak about the "desensitizing affects of violence and sexuality in games" with acts of violence. If we're ever to be taken seriously as a community and seen for the good people we are/can be, then this needs to end. It's just fuel for the anti-gaming fire.
She gave her views on Mass Effect without actually playing the game, some gamers rated her book without actually reading it.
also, she's apologised, so i feel that we can draw a close to this chapter.
Granted, admitting she should have played the game first is more than we have seen from any other idiot involved, but she still doesn't understand what the letter "M" means.
I have no sympathy for someone who goes on national television and waxes "expert" on something she knows nothing about. If I were representing my company nationally and had no idea what we even do, and made some ridiculously false claims, I would be fired. If the worst consequences she gets are some extra bad reviews, I think she’s still getting off pretty easy.
To me, this is also about a complete lack of professionalism in media, not just a smear on gaming. If they misrepresent gaming this bad, what about everything else? If there are going to be journalists or experts, they have a responsibility to get things right. That's their job. If they fail this completely, that should not be their job anymore. They have violated the trust people place in them and should be held accountable.
She is not a credible or trustworthy person. To say this "scandal" is irrelevant to her book is simply wrong. She wrote this book based on her “expert” opinion. She has thoroughly proven that she will use that status granted to her by a degree to fabricate her own facts. At the very least, that means you have to fact check and research every claim made in her book yourself, if you don’t dismiss it outright.
Look, the simple fact is, if we hadn't done it there then Lawrence wouldn't have felt compelled to respond. If we had posted it on a forum or a blog (Like here for instance) then she would have simply ignored us knowing that we aren't really doing any harm to her. But when we went after her books, then it got dangerous and it was only then that we got a response.
"I firmly stand by the research I cited that violence and sexual content in video games has a desensitizing effect on young developing minds."
If she said that during the Fox interview, I would be more lenient to listen and perhaps agree with her.
HOWEVER, the MTV article made the study reference and it wasn't clear to me if it was Cooper Lawrence who provided it.
There was another option : email her personally, directly and "en masse". Which, to me, would have been at least as efficient, if not more efficient.
While I can't feel bad about what happened to Cooper Lawrence, I'm wondering where all this public outrage was the last few thousand times Fox News distorted more important events than a video game sex scene.
Her email address is available on her website, here : http://www.cooperlawrence.com/contact.html
However, she's very hypocritical in what she says about the reviews and her role in the Fox news section.
About her role in the original program: "I was asked to appear on this particular show to discuss the broader issue of video games and their impact on developing adolescents"
About the reviews: "I believe that the customer-review feature on Amazon.com is not the appropriate forum to discuss an unrelated news segment."
If Amazon is not an appropriate forum to trash your lack of professionalism and integrity, then the Fox show was not the appropriate forum to trash a game you had never played. To the people who are wronged or insulted (Cooper about the reviews, us by the lies and stereotyping), both seem a little unfair. An eye for eye maybe...
I love this though: "I firmly stand by the research I cited that violence and sexual content in video games has a desensitizing effect on young developing minds."
What research? She briefly mentioned 1 study, without going into any detail on it. Maybe she didn't read it but still knows exactly what's in it, certainly sounds like her MO...
Lawrence also criticized gamers’ guerrilla use of Amazon.com’s review feature to trash her book:
I believe that the customer-review feature on Amazon.com is not the appropriate forum to discuss an unrelated news segment. I appeared on a news program that provides an opportunity for debate on topics that have been previously covered by the media. Amazon’s customer-reviews feature functions as a platform to review a product sold on their site, in this case my book, the topic of which does not relate to video games and/or ‘Mass Effect.’
I wouldn't trust her book for a minute.
All I know is, let's not forget this. For now, let's keep it neutral. If, after this, she does it again, then we certainly won't forgive. But for now, I think it's best not to drive the issue any further.
“I believe that the customer-review feature on Amazon.com is not the appropriate forum to discuss an unrelated news segment.”
I don't even think it is underhanded. She is a liar. She has proven she will play expert with no research or knowledge of topic. That is completely unethical and makes her untrustworthy. I would think that from this point on, dismissing her work based on her lack of credibility alone is not foul play.
She is a fake expert. She did not make a mistake in good faith. She made false agenda-driven claims. Any non-fiction book she writes should be evaluated accordingly.
She's admitted fault, and she's no longer a threat. While it may be within our right to remain bitter towards her, I'd prefer to be the bigger man and grant her a second chance to not open her mouth and say stupid things in regards to subjects she has no knowledge of.
Until then I hesitate to grant her the title expert on anything, other than at professionally bullshitting everyone.
I for one didn't condone the bookstorming of her site or the things some people said and I didn't participate in it. I felt there were better ways to address the issue with her. So in a way, I kind of understood where she was coming from on that.
Personally I would have rather had to just simply have a nice conversation with her one on one, preferably over dinner (Even if I may disagree with her, she's not an unattractive woman! Though I probably wouldn't stand much of a chance of scoring with her and she'd probably accuse me of being a womanizer!). Still, I think that would help her realize that not all gamers are uncouth and immature and that quite a few of us are polite and well-spoken.
Still like others have said, just because I forgive doesn't mean I won't forget.
She never apologized, she just said she "misspoke" and that she regretted saying it. That's not an apology. Not to mention her attitude (which she seems to continue to have) and other statements she made during that interview.
Now this is not to say that they are without their limits. For the same offense fro mteh same person, we are to forgive 70 times 7 times if they appologize. For the same offense by the same person without an appology, it is only7. But that is only if the offense was with malice. If a person offends you but they do not know it, they should be forgiven every time else the sin is on your head.
Not to be preachy, but just to explain why I voted yes.
I also agree with that the Amazon book reviews WASN'T the right place to debate this. A simple email could have easily done this.
One thing I found awful about some commenter is that while Lawrence was mistaken in her statement, she takes the full blame while none complained or attacked Fox News. While she was at fault for giving statements without doing research, she DOES NOT deserve the full blame.
Glad someone shares my views, Soldatlouis.
In the words of the soul of the internet...
"Anonymous is legion. Anonymous does not forgive. Anonymous does not forget."
What she got wasn't even the worst of what Gamers could've done. I'm just glad that no one has started tossing out death-threats, as is so common when it comes to JT.
Admittedly, this is a strange way to deal with the media attackers, and the social stigma that gamers are still battling, but it's very effective. I believe more and more people who were dumb enough to mouth off about things they don't understand, or care to learn about, are starting to realize that you don't do it to gamers. They will destroy you, your credibility, and anything you had that could be considered sanity.
That does in fact make a great deal of sense. Fox tells her that there's a game that adolescents can obtain that contains graphic sex. She spoke against said game. It's what she would do, what she was basically asked to do, and I certainly can't fault her on it. I imagine a lot of people (myself included) would condemn the practice of selling sexually explicit video games to children; fortunately, no one's doing that right now.
Would like to hear an "I'm sorry" from Fox News though.
Fox News should still be chastised for their stupidity, though.
http://writergarage.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/confusing-fantasy-with-real...
Forgive me if I bork something with
[quote]
This study didn’t involve thousands of young children. It didn’t even involve “real life experience” or even if they knew the difference between real life and fantasy. The Washington Post, in their story Students See Video Games As Harmless, Study Finds is more accurate, but not much more. The post still sensationalizes the issue by claiming that 14-year olds, who are filled with wrath, consider themselves “immune to mayhem.”
[/quote]
Also from the professor who performed the study:
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/its_not_just_a_game/
So, with that in mind, I vote no. Her "research" in to the harmful effects of video games totals one study of 100 college students, by an obviously biased researcher, that proves little to no scientific basis to make statements about the effects of games in either the short term or long term.
We should forgive because we need to show our detractors that we will forgive them if they admit they are wrong. If we don't, then we back them into a corner that they will eventually try to lash out of. If we forgive, it puts us in a better light.
I say dont forgive her...how can videogamers gain respect if we let people get off with trashing our shit as long as they say sorry. Sorry dosen't cut it with me and it shouldn't cut it with any of you! Shes done her damage her sorry repairs zero percent of that damage and by letting up on it we let her walk to bash us another day. We should not stop until we put a decent dent in her career that way she might be a bit more reluctant before she lies again for personal gain.
I hate to say it but its videogamers willingness to forgive that makes us a soft target.
Hell the videogame community is doing something brand new by standing up as much as we have...but i say we make an example of fox and cooper and hit them as hard as possible (not exactly the fairest thing, but it might get a few people to piss off)
We need a better target than Fox news.
Now can we go and do something about the real culprit - Faux News?
Seriously, I think that this is really the first time that gamers have politically come together against the media itself.
I can't think of a more appropriate place to show her EXACTLY what she did to gamers, and BioWare.
"I appeared on a news program that provides an opportunity for debate on topics that have been previously covered by the media."
HA! Debate? Calling Fox News a forum for debate, is like calling a spitting contest an Olympic sport.
I voted No. As far as I'm concerned gamers and game companies need to viscously defend themselves, Fox News and other 'authorities' have taken it upon themselves to tell everyone else what's right, and what's wrong. They can go to hell if they think we're going to sit here and accept their perverted judgment, I say down with anyone who thinks they can coerce ANYONE into conforming to their twisted flavor of hypo critic morality.
As far as the Amazon ratings of her book, I approve of what they did. She deserved no better. I guess she sees how much it hurts to have people who haven't even looked at your work condemning it. But I think she got the message, so there's no more need to keep "reviewing" her book.
I think its the perfect forum because she would have apologized for her comments mis-informed or not. And I think we should cut her some slack, but not think twice about doing something like this again if the situation arises.
Lets face it, most gamers are very internet suave and we need to show people that we are tired of Politicians, Parent Groups, and New Media constantly stepping on our necks in their quest to find a scapegoat that answers their question of why people are so f'd up in the head. *BUT* we really need to stop with the death threats, and racist/sexist/idiotic crap. Unfortunately gamers can't chose who is also in the group, but we need to show that there are MATURE people who care about their favorite past time and will protect it.
Here's the thing. So, we have this minor scrap over video games. Yes, we're all upset and angered that they are passing off this terrific game as pornography. But, once you hear what Lawrence said in explanation for her ignorance, it's actually really chilling: "Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it’s like pornography."
It makes you wonder what other "experts" are being used to discuss actually important issues plaguing the world at large and not focused on our past time.
As per the poll, is it time to forgive or not...it doesn't matter. The harm's done. Everyone who saw that program has it in their mind that Mass Effect = porn. It doesn't matter what Lawrence is saying [i]to other media that's not Fox[/i] because the harm's done, for one, and for two, chances are those who are influenced by Fox aren't looking at the New York Times.
It's despicable. And while forgiving Lawrence is one thing, she's really a pawn in the problem.
On amazon... I think the amazon feedback system was absolutly the right medium for this. When you have someone preforming actions that effect others (but do not hurt them or things they care about) the best way to get them to THINK about what they did it flip things and cause thier actions to effect something they DO care about.
Sending letters, comments, etc, would be pointless. This is someone who cares about their career and revenues. We don't have the clout to tell Fox 'slap her around or we boycott your advertizer's products', but we CAN effect her own bottom line.
She's digging in now.
By that does that mean there's a likely chance that Cooper Lawrence is a man?
She calls someone a "darling" on live (?) TV when she's asked whether she played the game. The implication there is that she sees video games and playing them beneath her and something only "darlings" do. She still has not apologized for that.
But the most serious issue I have with her is that she goes on a TV show as an expert when she CLEARLY has done no research on the issue, is not an expert on the issue and is just talking out of her ass.
I'm not going to forgive her unless she addresses those two points to my satisfaction. I am, however, giving her that she has an unusually open mind towards owning up to her mistakes. A lot of the experts-in-their-own-minds types have a real problem ever admitting they could be wrong.
"I firmly stand by the research I cited that violence and sexual content in video games has a desensitizing effect on young developing minds."
Oh come on... how many thousands of times do we need to say "what research?" I have yet to see a single conclusive non-biased bit of research supporting this view.
So in short: Nice apology, you apologise then go on to quote very dodgy research as fact without checking it. Good way to dig yourself back into the hole you previously made.
Apology denied
Although im not a big fan of absoultly spamming her work with poor scores, people have to realise that before you can cast judgement over something you have to at least have some knowledge about it.
Is it so disturbing to see alien sideboob (A quote from a friend of mine).
Until Miss Lawrence can be forgiven by the gaming community she first has to offer the community a proper appology, and not a half-baked, i mispoke but im right anyway.
This is true...but if enough pawns get burnt they might stop marching forward without a thought as to why they're doing it.
Neeneko: but we CAN effect her own bottom line.
And this is how we get those pawns to think about their actions before they say or do something stupid.
Continuing to single her out sends the message that Fox can get away with this type of action because the community will maliciously single out the guests and do nothing to the show.
There will always be an idiot happy to stand up and trot out some soundbite garbage for crappy network news, the people who need to be educated are the networks themselves.
No and no.