New Game Tracks Plight of Immigrants in U.S.

February 18, 2008 -
A newly-launched video game hopes to raise awareness about one of today's hot-button political issues - immigration.

The much anticipated ICED (I Can End Deportation) is available as a free download for PC and Mac from international human rights organization Breakthrough. A press release details the game and the purpose behind its creation:
Designed to spark dialogue and create awareness of unfair U.S. immigration policies, ICED... teaches players about current immigration laws on detention and deportation...

Players can choose one of five characters to inhabit and live out the day-to-day life of an immigrant youth. The youth are being chased by immigration officers, while making moral decisions and answering myth and fact questions about current immigration policies...

Breakthrough Executive Director Mallika Dutt described the creation of ICED, which is designed primarily for high school and college students:
It's important to engage young people in social issues... Games for change help people to better relate to an issue because they can put themselves into the shoes of a character experiencing injustice.

Close to two million people have been deported and thousands more affected -- many without just cause -- due to unfair immigration policies. When we let the government deny due process and human rights for some people, we're putting all of our freedoms at risk.

As part of its launch day happening, ICED will be featured on Global Kids Island in Teen Second Life at 8:30 PM EST.

Comments

Re: New Game Tracks Plight of Immigrants in U.S.

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@Pix Anon

You're right, it isn't fair for the kids. What also isn't fair are the kids that are born with HIV, the kids that are born into poverty or abuse-ridden homes. We need to focus on our own country before focusing on the lives of people that COME HERE ILLEGALLY.

As for the part about Swat coming in, there will always be racist people. I'm sure the FBI wasn't like "oh, well these guys are Hispanic, so they must be illegals," it was "Well these people say their neighbors are illegals, so we'll check it out," and was purely the racist bigots' faults.

So I can download an obviously biased pro-immigrant propaganda tool for free? Gee, sounds like a swell deal. Sign me up.

"We need to be able to operate by ourselves, and keep to ourselves"

Unrealistic and dangerous, See the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, we live in a global economy.

A factor of future American success will be the collecting of skilled immigrant workers. "Skilled" seems like a buzzword nowadays suffice it to say those skilled in Math, science and engineering. With the average age of American engineers on the rise and the poor quality of lower and middle education in the US, attracting the skilled will be important.

As for illegal immigration, no doubt that it is an issue that should be dealt with, but some politicians are afraid of alienating some, while others see illegal immigrants as potential voters.

Hey, Tony! That was funny! I guess I got a hilarious birthday present a day early!

I'll consider this once the immigration officers are playable. Immigrant youth need savage beatings.

That sounds like a very stupid game

If you're not a citizen of the US, come here legally and wait 7 years and then you can become a citizen, it's not that hard. If you come here illegally, then you should be beaten or deported immediately. The only exception would be if you were trying to escape to here from Cuba or somewhere, as a refugee.

Also, immigrants shouldn't be tax exempt for businesses and such, just saying

I agree with chadachada. Illegal immigrants are just that, here against the law. They have no citizenship, pay no taxes, but expect to get access to education systems, state health care, and federal assistance programs just like legal citizens. This kind of game seems (as I have not played it) like something produced to push a certain political agenda.

"This kind of game seems (as I have not played it) like something produced to push a certain political agenda."

Well, duh! I believe that is the whole point of the game.

I'm all for deportation of illegal immigrants, but I'm also more than a little disappointed at the crappy process of immigration here in the U.S. . When you consider that most of the attention (and funds) dealing with immigration are focused on illegal immigration as opposed to finding and developing a better and easier system of immigration... well you kind of have it right there.

Not to say that illegal immigrants are making it easier, though- it's still illegal, regardless. Blab all you want about "injustice", if you come here illegally then you came here illegally- end of discussion, it's a law. I'm just also expressing my thoughts in that the long and tedious process of attaining citizen ship is making things more difficult.

Yeah, let's invite all terrorists and tax evading leeches to our countries and be friends with them. It isn't easy to become a citizen of another country but it shouldn't be. With citizenship come privileges and responsibilities. Hardly something to be handed out to random people in the street.

Blase, yea, because all illegal immigrants are either terrorists or tax evading leeches.

No wonder someone made a game like this. You should play it.

@ Pixelantes

Should irony be marked with some kind of special tags nowadays?

The second part of my post explains my reservations. The game is called I Can End Deportation nor Unfair Deportation. That is what pisses me off.

"Close to two million people have been deported and thousands more affected — many without just cause — due to unfair immigration policies."

Proof plz, kk thx. Unfair? How? You can't up and decide to stroll across the border and become a citizen - it takes work and effort. Just cause? You broke the law, first by coming here, and second by actually breaking the law. It's not like there are roving bands of people sweeping up those with Hispanic accents just to see if they are citizens. Immigration offcers detain people crossing the border only. If you are deported, typically that means you were caught breaking the law, most often, this will be driving without a license, or other minor offense.

Seems fair to me, break two US Laws (illegally cross the border, and whatever infraction caused the arrest and subsequent deportation) and get the boot.

And Pixelantes Anonymous, there is a strong case to be made that ILLEGAL immigrants are by definition tax-evading leeches. While it isn't a PC term, it is apt. I wouldn't use it myself, but I can only fault the tone of it and that's mostly the authors.

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

Some people deserve to be deported. For a multitude of reasons.

The US has a shitty system for entering the country legally. So lets fix that system then keep on deporting all the asshats who come here illegally.

Citizenship can continue to take 7 years, but there needs to be some fixing done on the immigration process.

Well, if places like the States and Canada remove our immigration laws and play a game of amnesty for all, then it should be a two way street. No passports to enter Mexcio or other countries. But guess what, won't happen.

From what I can tell the game is not really about immigration policy or illegal immigration from the "intake" perspective, but rather about what happens to illegal immigrants when they get involved with ICE and deportation proceedings get started.

Illegal immigrants can get locked up for months with no legal representation in this country. Sometimes they aren't even allowed to communicate with the outside world when they're in custody. They generally get treated worse than animals.

Given the target audience I'd also guess the game explores what happens to families where the breadwinner or all parents are illegals, but the kids are US citizens. Currently the parents get deported. The kids don't...technically. Of course, you can't really leave them living on their own, so they either do get to leave their own country, or they get separated from their parents sometimes for life.

"It’s not like there are roving bands of people sweeping up those with Hispanic accents just to see if they are citizens."

There you'd be wrong, actually, at least as far as certain upstate NY towns go. That's EXACTLY what happened in a few small towns there. Some racist bigots afraid their property values would go down when the brown people moved in called the FBI saying their hispanic neighbors were illegals, which they weren't, and the ICE swat team arrived in the middle of the night with semi-automatic guns. Wasn't just once, btw.

Link's broken.

my opinion of immagaration is this-

anyone should have an oportunity to seek a better life for their famlies and them selvesBUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF PEOPLE WHO ALREADY LIVE THERE!! so my answer is this IMPROVE CONDITIONS IN MEXICO!! that way they wont have any reason to go to the us.

@~the1jeffy

"Seems fair to me, break two US Laws (illegally cross the border, and whatever infraction caused the arrest and subsequent deportation) and get the boot."

If it only were so black and white. What if you crossed when you were 2? What if you ARE 2, and it's your parents who are getting deported? You are technically a US citizen. What if the infraction that triggered the arrest was boarding a bus and not paying the $2 bus ticket? What if they decided that your jaywalking arrest 20 years ago was a good enough reason to pick you up and deport you now? What if you get sent to a prison with drug dealers and "real" felons, and then get sent to a country where it's known you'll be tortured? You certainly don't get your phone call. These situations happen all the time, and the response cannot simply be "well it's their own fault".

"You broke the law, first by coming here, and second by actually breaking the law."

Not all deportees were here illegally. You can be a green card or visa holder, or even a landed immigrant, and still get deported for minor infractions, stuff that wouldn't net regular US citizens a day in jail.

@chadachada(123)

"Also, immigrants shouldn’t be tax exempt for businesses and such, just saying"

Since when are they? Hiring ANYONE under the table is illegal. Doesn't matter whether they were US citizens or not. Is that the immigrants' fault, or the company that hired under the table?

@Jabrwock

Legal immigrants don't have to pay certain taxes if they own a business for so many years

Also, like i said earlier, if it's a country where it's almost impossible to come here legally (like Cuba), then they are refugees and are allowed to come here (if I remember correctly) and aren't really "illegal," so your argument about going back to a country where they'll be whipped falls through slightly.

@chadachada(123)

Legal immigrants don’t have to pay certain taxes if they own a business for so many years

How is that different from small business tax breaks that are frequently offered?

Also, like i said earlier, if it’s a country where it’s almost impossible to come here legally (like Cuba), then they are refugees and are allowed to come here (if I remember correctly) and aren’t really “illegal,” so your argument about going back to a country where they’ll be whipped falls through slightly.

Cuba is the only example. Possibly North Korea. I'm talking about deportations to countries like Egypt, Syria, etc. Countries where it's possible to immigrate from, legally or otherwise, but that are known to mistreat people who get sent back. It's not like the US is particularly against sending people to Syria, even KNOWING they'll be tortured... (hell, look at how they treat people just PASSING THROUGH the US...)

Irony of ironies, US tourists are bitchy that minor infractions from decades ago are preventing them from LEAVING the US....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/02/18/qc-border0217.html

@Jabrwock

Alright, I'll give you that...we could simply close our borders to all immigration, only allow visitors, if we really wanted to fix the problem...(that was thrown out there in jest, but feel free to support it)

"we could simply close our borders to all immigration, only allow visitors"

But here's the thing. You even deport VISITORS to countries where it's known they'll be tortured...

Perhaps you should fix the system first, then worry about clearing up the backlog.

Or I suppose you could just wait for your economy to tank, and then all the Mexicans will stay home, because the jobs will be better in their country. ;)

Pixelantes Anonymous,

Good point, but rather than point to a small, localized event and make it the norm, I am willing to make that the horrible exception, and not the rule.

Jabr,

If you are 2, you are still a foreign national. Sucks for someone who was here until the age of majority, and deported. I'd support an expedited naturalization process for people in this position, as long as they have a clean background (no felonies, less than three misdemeanors). But only for you, not your parents, garndparents, aunts uncles and your dog.

If you are born here to an illegal immigrant, you are a US citizen. If under the age of majority, your parents decide whether an a US state ward or returning to Mexico is preferable. That decision is not one the our Government has to make, or should make. I leave that to the parents.

"What if the infraction that triggered the arrest was boarding a bus and not paying the $2 bus ticket? What if they decided that your jaywalking arrest 20 years ago was a good enough reason to pick you up and deport you now? What if you get sent to a prison with drug dealers and “real” felons, and then get sent to a country where it’s known you’ll be tortured?"

If you can prove your citizenship, none of these things will happen. And hospitals issue birth certificates to all births, and no hospital turns away a pregnant woman, redgardless of her nationality. I am forced to prove my citizenship before I can work, get a driver's license, get a passport, why are immigrants any different than me? A non-citizen will be afforded the rights they are afforded under interational law.

But you lay your finger on a root issue, the problem is that many illegal immigrants are fleeing countries with sub-human jails, etreme poverty, corrupt governments and businesses. I'd rather my tax money goes to fund the US's ability to police human rights violations, rather than pay for schooling/healthcare of illegal immigrants. But then the US looks like a military oppressor, no? So pick your medicine. I pick securing our borders (even the northern one, to keep out you Maple Leafs ;) ), policing businesses that hire illegal immigrants or other 'under the table' employees, and letting the other problems be solved locally.

This really isn't such a huge weighty problem, but it's an election year. /shrug

Watch the immigration 'crisis' suddenly disappear after November. To me, the only thing the Federal Government should be doing is securing the border, validating citizenship, and policing fraudulent business practices surrounding taxes. But I guess I'm too right/left wing for the fringe loonies that make this into a hullaballoo.

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

"I’d support an expedited naturalization process for people in this position, as long as they have a clean background (no felonies, less than three misdemeanors). But only for you, not your parents, garndparents, aunts uncles and your dog."

Why not your parents? You're allowed to sponsor a spouse for expedient naturalization. Why not you parents? I can understand if you're 25 and trying to get your folks in, but if you're under 18, why CAN'T you sponsor your parents? And the whole "grandparents, aunts/uncles, and dog" is a strawman. Nobody who complains about families getting split up is talking about separating kids from their grandparents, unless the grandparents are the guardians.

"I am forced to prove my citizenship before I can work, get a driver’s license, get a passport, why are immigrants any different than me?"

If you don't give them driver's licenses, they'll still drive. That's not solving the root problem.

"A non-citizen will be afforded the rights they are afforded under interational law."

And we all know how well the US adheres to those... they barely afford them to their OWN citizens... /rolleyes

@ Jabrwock

What Country are you from, if you don't mind my asking?

"Close to two million people have been deported" and a number equalling a third of the entire population of Canada is still here illegally!!!

ANY other country's economy would have collapsed by now, fortunately ours is still going, the question is for how long???

Deporting criminals that threaten a countries stability by their presence is not a human rights issue...allowing them to stay is...

Can't wait for the wall on the border to be built...

I AM AN IMMIGRANT by the way...

I really don't get how political games change the way people think.

Immigration is more than just Mexicans crossing the border into Texas, there are wider issues on the table here.

In countries like Britain, there are a wealth of immigrants entering the country, with many escaping war and genocide, seeking political asylum in Britain.

Granted, there is a large percentage of eastern Europeans entering Britain, but as a general rule, these people bring valuable skills into the UK and aren't all cleaners and spongers.

Don't believe everything you read in the red tops.

@Kerotan

But that isn't the status of immigration in the US (to my knowledge). I think the amount of illegal immigration and the amount of immigration in general is causing just as many economic problems as the US outsourcing all of its major business. We need to be able to operate by ourselves, and keep to ourselves

How not to get deported? Perhaps it's a game that should be played before one comes to the USA? The rules are easy. Don't come here to stay unless you have the appropriate work or student VISAs. Don't come here under false pretenses (i.e., saying you've come to visit when you mean to stay). Don't get false ID papers ... that breaks our laws and Identity theft should be punished far worse than simple illegal immegration. Don't break our laws period ... including the ones you breaking by coming here or staying here illegally. When your VISAs expire ... get them extended or LEAVE. While you're here, don't have kids. That complicates things for everyone. Don't get drunk and drive on our roads. Don't drive on our roads without proper insurance. Don't help your relatives come here illegally or provide a place for them to stay. If you want to work, work to improve your own damn country.

@T5

"What Country are you from, if you don’t mind my asking?"

Canadian. And while I suppose I'd fall into the WASP demographic, the whole Mahar Arar case pissed me off.

I always find it ironic that a country that was BUILT on immigration, before it got all pissy and closed it's borders, has such a problem with immigrants.

What does being a WASP have to do with Mahar Arar?

Also, Most of the piss is towards Illegal immigrants. America's borders are wide open at the moment.

Are you as passionate about Canadian immigration, the historic treatment of the Chinese for example?

"What does being a WASP have to do with Mahar Arar?"

I've gotten the "why do you care, you're not a visible minority" speech a few times when talking about the issue.

"Are you as passionate about Canadian immigration, the historic treatment of the Chinese for example?"

Am I judging the US, knowing what horrible things my country has done in the past? Hell yes. While we're at it, let's throw Japanese internment camps, residential schools, and "Africville" on the list.

Because I condemn them all.

Well, it's kind of a double standard when one's first act of citizenship is to break the nation's laws...

God forbid that a sovereign nation be allowed to enforce its own immigration laws. You know, I'm all for fixing the system, but this game is dead wrong on its process. You do not have the right to enter this country illegally, and if you are caught it is within the rights of the sovereign nation to deport you.

If we in the US are to fix the laws, then we need to start with this "born in the US and be a citizen" BS. Change that so that your parents have to have entered legally. My family has been here legally for generations, why should an illegal get a free ride just because they got knocked up and had a kid. Next, beef up border security. Terrorists, gang bangers, and drug runners use that route to get in here, and the US needs to try and stem the tide. After that's been taken care of, make the illegals still here pay a fine, get a green card, and send them through citizenship. There is also the issue that there is a large percentage of the Mexican population that mistakenly believes that the Southwest belongs to Mexico. That needs to stop.

@Jabrwock

You know, this is exactly the sort of position on immigration I've come to expect Canadians to take. The worst part is that Canada would have no historical basis for this kind of problem. Canada has one country that it shares a land border with- the US. The US, unlike Mexico, is not known for rampant corruption, drug trafficking, and rioting over elections. Not all illegals are criminals, but that doesn't mean that they should get a free ride into our country. We did not break Mexico nor South America (at least, not on purpose), and it is not our job to fix it. Some of our ancestors have been here for thousands of years, and some of our population came here legally and worked hard to gain citizenship. Giving a free pass to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who thinks that the streets here are paved with gold is not fair to either group.

Jabrwock
So you are saying that a country founded on law can not build its immigrant base based on legitimate immigrates?

I am sorry there is no excuse for the current plight of illicit immigration the illegals come here knowing that they might get in trouble and the system is broken just enough to not do anything about it.

IMO its simple reform the immigration system to make it easier to come in while handing out green cards to track and tag current illicit immigrants so that they will be added to the system.

For me the US is such a great nationwe should not throw them out or reform the born here laws what we need is better border protection and a more efficant immigration system so we can take proper taxes from them so that they are not a burden on the local systems, they do pay some taxes but they are not counted or taxed properly which can lead to states cutting back what they give to their populace.

The best plan IMO is a simple tag and track setup, they get green cards with a 10 year life span on them, this makes them a temp citizen while they stay they pay a fine on top of taxes and thos that make 100K or more a year they get to pay back taxs, as long as they are paying into the system and the system is begin reformed to let more people in and keep up with them efficntly I see no reason not to let the ones in stay.

@Dark Sovereign

"crime, gangs, etc"

You're not getting it. WHY do you think crime follows illegal immigration? Is it because Mexicans are all drug dealers and criminals?

Or perhaps it's because the only way to get to those jobs (which btw, Americans don't seem to want to do) is through illegal means. Clean up the system, make it easier to get workers to their jobs, with full legal paperwork, and the criminal element loses it's power. Because the only reason people turn to the gangs etc. is for assistance. Regular Joe Schmoe doesn't just waltz across the border. Those ones get caught. You need the gangs to smuggle you across, to provide you with fake paperwork, etc. Which puts you in debt. So now you're working minimum wage, under constant threat of deportation, and now you're in debt to people who have no qualms about murdering you. So you handle a package or two, because you don't want to cause trouble. You don't report the crime in your neighborhood, because that would involve the police, who could report you to Immigration. And you make less than minimum wage (wage laws don't apply to those who are paid under the table, natch), so you are constantly under the poverty line.

"You know, this is exactly the sort of position on immigration I’ve come to expect Canadians to take. The worst part is that Canada would have no historical basis for this kind of problem."

Is that seriously the best answer you've got? "You never had this problem so you don't know what you're talking about?"

@ZippyDSMIee

I'm saying that enforcing a horribly broken system doesn't do any good to solve the root problems. Until you fix the system, you're just throwing money at the problem in the hopes that it will fix itself.

I like your Extended Green Card idea.
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...

“Close to two million people have been deported and thousands more affected — many without just cause — due to unfair immigration policies.”


And with the problem of illegal immigration we are having this is still just a drop in the bucket. The number should be much much higher than 2 million.

I'm really only sympathetic to Mexican illegals on the basis that Canadian migrant workers have come to this country for decades and no one seemed to care. Personally I don't really think illegal immigrants should be allowed to live here and all, but the borders could be safely made porous instead of unsafely like they are now. People come across to work and live no matter what you do, round them up and make them go to civil learning camps or something. Err, not in the dictatorial communist way or anything, you know what I mean...

The only real reason for having a closed southern border is to combat the illegal drug industry. All these other reasons are just stupid, like what is it, Homeland Security? I like how the terrorists all came here legally and without coming through the Mexican or Canadian border, but instead of fixing whatever allowed them to come here legally, we go and bother with the illegals who are just here to work...

@Baramos

I mostly agree with you. However, at least one of the hijackers came through the Mexican border. Plus, there are far less Canadians than Mexicans.

It is very sad though. They've been coming here for over a century. We hired them cheap, they made our lives easier. Everybody was happy. Then Bin Laden comes along and ruins it all.

@Jabrwock

You have no idea, do you? Canada doesn't really have an analogous situation we could learn from. If Canada has never dealt with the problem, Canada can't have much of a tried-and-true solution, can it?

However back to your "points". Joe Smoe IS walking across the border. The Rio Grande, to be precise. That isn't most of them though. Most of them hire Coyotes, human traffickers. Coyotes may be drug runners to, but it isn't always the case. These Coyotes get them across the border and arrange transport for the illegals. This transport will take them to a nearby major population center, like Houston, and leaves them. The illegals will do one of two things here: find a job in town, or leave and find a job somewhere else. Either way typically invovles them standing around at certain meeting spot and waiting for someone to come by and tell them they want work. Just drive by, ask for a certain number, pick them up, and drive away. The minority will fall into crime rings, but it isn't all that common.

As for the "Americans don't want the jobs" crap. You could easily find Americans for some of these jobs, such as construction worker, janitor, electrician, plumper, etc. If you are talking about fruit pickers only, then you have a better point. Illegals aren't really hired because the jobs are untaken. Illegals are hired because they are a) easily found and b) cheap.

Some additional information for you: after America stepped up its border activities, illegals were unable to get into the country without proper papers anymore. The usual tactic now is to buy stolen papers and use them. So they aren't just breaking border laws, their commiting ID theft. The best part though, is that they ARE paying taxes. They just can't get anything for doing so besides avoiding deportation.

"This transport will take them to a nearby major population center, like Houston, and leaves them. The illegals will do one of two things here: find a job in town, or leave and find a job somewhere else."

So you're in the land of opportunity, you've spent your life savings on a Coyote (or perhaps even gone into debt with his backers), and now you're in a country, that while better than where you left, is only willing to pay you slave wages to work. Better than what you left, but still low enough that you have a choice. Eat, or have a roof over your head. Pick one.

"So they aren’t just breaking border laws, their commiting ID theft."

Again, because you're not dealing with the root issue. If green cards were easier to get and maintain, they wouldn't need to resort to criminal elements for ID (see, all the policy is doing is funneling money to organized crime...).

And I'm willing to bet fake id is even priceyer than a cross border smuggle. So now you're in even more debt to the mafiosos...
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...

WTF?! First Dora and Diego now this! Damn liberal brainwashing game trying to brainwash kids and americans to think that inviting illegal wetbacks will make everything all harmonous. Illegals are one of the main reasons are economy sux. Speak English or get the f out spick. Money says a mexican made this game. Whats next a game where u play as an al-qaeda member in america and u can kill americans? Liberalism is a mental disorder its killing our country.

Jabrwock my friend I admire your passion, but surely you see that one of the reasons many people are against illegal immigration is because of the terrible treatment they are subjected too? If they are off the grid then laws cannot be enforced to help them. No one is saying that locking down the border is the only solution, the organizations that exploit these people must also be brought to justice.

I can tell you that if I were in Mexico and my family was in jeopardy I would try to make it to America anyway I could, but that does not make it right or legal. We would have to be foolish to think that people are going to stop trying to get here. It is then incumbent upon America to enforce its laws and maintain a strong border. Illegal immigration is a lose-lose situation.

One last thing, the idea that Americans so not want to do these jobs is questionable, it would be fair to say that Americans do not want to do those jobs at "slave wages"

Frankly I agree to a degree with Tony, thought I wouldn't have worded it quite like that...liberal brainwashing is becoming a problem, etc etc..

@T5

"but surely you see that one of the reasons many people are against illegal immigration is because of the terrible treatment they are subjected too?"

Right. Has nothing to do with the perceived threats of drugs, crime, poverty, "disease spreaders", "job stealers", "welfare hogs", and many other horrible things people at large think of immigrants.

They're just concerned for their well-being when they tell them to "f-off back where they came from"...

"One last thing, the idea that Americans so not want to do these jobs is questionable, it would be fair to say that Americans do not want to do those jobs at “slave wages”

Fair enough. But keep in mind that if a full-time job (and sometimes holding two of them) doesn't pay you enough (even legal wages) to get out of the bottom rungs of poverty, then I'd still consider it slave wages. Governments are in charge of determining what "minimum wage" is, and unless you're living in a country with socialist leanings, corporations are happy keeping it far behind inflation...

@Tony

"Whats next a game where u play as an al-qaeda member in america and u can kill americans? "


Its "You" not "u". Speak English or get the fuck out.

@Jabrwock

Many of the concerns you brought up (though your sarcasm is not lost on me I assure you) are also valid, but those do not discount my own. The fact is the dangers around illegal immigration are many, for the citizens and illegals, these dangers are economic and sometimes physical.

As for your last point a debate on the minimum wage, though I'd be happy to have it, is off topic. I will create an account for the forums and we can hash it out there

Jabrwock
I always though that middle ground is needed for this, the illegals need protection from the cruelty of the law and the law needs protection from its own importance, thus we create a temp system or expand on the one we have (was thinking of a new temp system to hand out temp stuff since the current system is so broke but the way gov handles things perhaps not the best of ideas ).

Anyway we need a long/mid term temp system in place because government dose not change quickly and we still will have newcomers getting normal cards

T5
link to it so I can drool on it too :P
 
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james_fudgequiknkold:: oh yeah which games?10/01/2014 - 11:20am
Andrew EisenInfophile - Your comment is on the second page. Scroll to the bottom and click "Previous Entries."10/01/2014 - 9:55am
MaskedPixelantehttps://time.com/3450854/amc-netflix-imax-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon-boycott/ Theatres refuse to show the new Crouching Tiger movie because... well, I'm sure they've got a good PR spin reason, pick one.10/01/2014 - 9:06am
IanCForza Horrizon 2 isn't even out yet, but theres already a 31 car DLC pack, along with a season pass....10/01/2014 - 8:42am
quiknkoldstarting my Halloween Spooktacular Stream today. Every day from 7-11, I'm going to be streaming Spooky games on Twitch.10/01/2014 - 8:37am
MaskedPixelanteSteam is going to start charging us Canadians in CAD. This is bad news... for people who don't use key sellers like GMG and GamersGate.10/01/2014 - 7:23am
InfophileSomething weird was going on with that comment. As soon as I posted it, it looked like it had replies from the past. And now I can't even find it. Ah well, it was getting off-topic for that thread anyway.10/01/2014 - 4:29am
Sleaker@CraigR been using Win8.1 for a while, I don't really see any usability difference between it and 7 (Work uses 7)10/01/2014 - 2:16am
Craig R.Ok, my internal debate was short-lived. If Win10 is still a year out, I'm not waiting that long for an SSD, so on Win7 I will remain.09/30/2014 - 7:52pm
Matthew Wilsonits called windows 10, and I am happy to get the start menu back.09/30/2014 - 7:18pm
Jessy HartIs this stuff about Windows 10 legit? Is it actually called Windows 10 or is it just some stupid joke?09/30/2014 - 6:57pm
ZippyDSMleeSo I been trying to play Bioshock Infinite I got all the DLC,ect but do not want the extras to make your charatcer over powered from the start.....they force you to take them which is quite annoying......09/30/2014 - 6:45pm
Craig R.I need to upgrade to an SSD, still seriously debating moving to Win8.1 from 7 at the same time09/30/2014 - 6:07pm
Craig R.Win10 is probably Win8.1 with more cleanup and the Start button back.09/30/2014 - 6:06pm
 

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