Hot Coffee Rewind: Famed Dutch Modder Talks to EGM

March 3, 2008 -
Aside from the April Fool's jokes (our fave: Lego Halo), the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly offers a massive - and genuine - preview of Grand Theft Auto IV. The highly-anticipated game, of course, is due to launch on April 29th.

While we don't believe the GTA feature is officially available online, page scans have been posted here and there, inlcuding EGM's interview with Patrick Wildenborg, the Dutch modder who discovered the hidden sex animations which blew the lid off the 2005 Hot Coffee scandal.

When Hot Coffee broke, of course, it was GamePolitics which provided a platform for PatrickW to get his story out, even as some creepy Take Two and Rockstar execs were trying to blame the GTA mod community for creating the racy content. From the EGM interview:
It's a strange feeling to find e-mails from all the major news companies in your mail box... luckily it didn't have any lasting negative effect... We [in the modding community] never anticipated how this thing was going to be blown out of proportion by the mainstream media and the politicians...

I'm still proud of finding and uncovering the [Hot Coffee] scenes - because of all the work and research it took... When I look back at it, I think [Rockstar] should have reacted differently, but I don't hold a grudge at all.

Patrick is still active in the GTA mod community, but told EGM he doesn't expect to find anything similar in Grand Theft Auto IV.
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Re: Hot Coffee Rewind: Famed Dutch Modder Talks to EGM

Hacks do make the life of a game longer. They're good. Hacks are good for gamers and for the companies :)

R* have officially admitted their guilt over leaving the content on the disc already not long after it happened. The case is only being mentioned because GTA4 is about 2 months away now.

Anyone who still blames modders for Hot Coffee is a nutcase.

And thats why Rockstar is a joke

[...] Filed under: Culture, Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360 [...]

People are STILL going on about this shit? How old is the damn game? About 3-4 years old? Modifications are not the work of the companies. I seriously doubt that the bastard is right about the content already being on the disc. Modders can say anything. Skeptics will say, "Everything looks professionally done, it must have been the work of Rockstar." Bullshit. I've seen models and re-textures for The Elder Scrolls IV:Oblivion, and they look just like they were places into the game. There are many nude character textures out there, so should I believe that Rockstar actually tried to get around the ESRB? I really don't. What would they gain from doing so?

@Soroki

When you can access the Hot Coffee scenes on a PS2 just by using a Gameshark/Action Replay, then its something that's included on the disk. I can't believe skeptics of that still exist.

Looking back at that whole fiasco, it seems almost surreal how overblown the whole issue was.
The Hot Coffee scenes were humorous (mostly due to CJ still being fully clothed the whole time) and not even the least bit erotic. To a kid it's like taking two G.I. Joe's and stacking them on top of each other (come on, you all did it >_>)

I know this is old with a captal O but at least I am happy that a smart gamer found that than a nutjob like Jack Thompson (he would have faked it like those Fake Bully "Scans"), Just imagine how bad it got if that happend...

@Soroki:

Actually, no one is "still going on about this shit." EGM just interviewed him as part of a mini retrospective on the past GTA games and controversies for their GTA4 main cover story.

Oh, and the content was on the disk. I managed to access the content in the PS2 version by using a Gameshark and a hacked save file.

Let's not forget that the many people who have a puritanical attitude of the topic of human sexuality are what fueled this incident. Take away that aspect, and this thing would not have acquired the attention of knuckleheads like Leland Yee and such.

Look, if you have to actually "hack" the game in order to see this content then you are kinda opening yourself up to it, aren't you?

This was only a problem in the US because of your backwards nudity laws. In the UK there was no scandal over hot coffee for two reasons:

1 - The game was already rated 18 because it lets you kill cops.
2 - Even if the game had a 15+ rating, no one would have cared as scenes are pathetic and kids can look at titties in the UK by opening the Sun up to page 3.

The US needs to sort out its laws regarding nudity. They make no sense at all... (i.e. you can have sex 2 years before you can look at a porno! wtf?!)

gs2005 sez:
"Let’s not forget that the many people who have a puritanical attitude of the topic of human sexuality are what fueled this incident."

That's what I can't understand... If those people are so prudish about sex, why are there so MANY of them? :)

So what ever happened between the game and the ESRB over this content. Multiple people have told me that they SAW copies of the game with AO stickers over the M stickers, with store staff saying it was a temporary fix until new copies with actual AO's on it came in.

It's quite a while later now, and i still see M's in the store... Were people lying, or did certain retailers overreact and make up thier own AO's?

@ SeanB

When the hack was found and it was found to actually be Rockstar's fault, the game was reissued an AO rating. Retailers were sent new AO rating labels to place over the M rating. Most retailers recalled the game and sent it back to the publisher.

Once Rockstar actually removed the content from the production disk, the games were sent out with an M rating. Those are the ones you see in stores today. You will be hard pressed to find an original copy of the game.

@SeanB

Rock* released a new version with all the Hot Coffee code completely removed this time and it was given its M rating back.

It's too bad Lego Halo is a hoax.

I'd totally buy that game.

I stand corrected. I thought the mod was for the PC version, because I generally think of mods for PC, not console.

@Dog_Welder

I'd prefer Lego GoW, thank you

I'm not a nutcase. I've seen some pretty sexually explicit mods for games and it was all the work of the modders. That's why I blamed the modders. I've been informed that it was already on the game disc.

[...] EGM interviews Hot Coffee modder after cooling March 03rd, 2008 | Category: Gaming News Filed under: Culture, Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360 [...]

Lego GoW would be awesome, too, but I think LEGO would frown on the chainsaw bayonet.

@Soroki

Well, screaming at the entitre mod community for something unrelated doesn't really help.

@kurisu7885

Where exactly was I screaming? Generally screaming in text IS WRITTEN LIKE THIS IN ALL CAPS. I have already admitted I was corrected on this matter.

Soroki: for a PS2 game, the content has to already be on the disc. On PC, sure, modders could possibly add content. But it's simply impossible on previous-gen consoles.

@Soroki: In both the PC and the PS2 game, it's been confirmed and reconfirmed that the content was already on the disc. As Timson notes, PS2 disc images cannot be altered to include new content, so the content's existence on the PS2 disc is solid proof.

Before the game went into final production, Rockstar decided not to include the Hot Coffee content in the release build of the game. Rather than removing the content directly (which, in retrospect, would have been a good idea), the programming team flipped a few bits around in the code to prevent the conditions for accessing the content from ever being satisfied if the game were played as intended. For all practical purposes, the content was locked, it would never be seen, and the problem was solved.

However, modders don't just play games through normal means - they use various tools and methods (the details of which I won't go into) to look at how in-game content is encoded, make their own content either by (a) re-arranging existing parts in the game, such as custom levels and gametypes, or (b) writing new objects of their own, such as custom textures, weapons, or items. Patrick happened to be the first modder to notice the Hot Coffee content while examining the game, and as such, is credited with discovering it. Let's be honest - if he didn't find it, someone else would have eventually. Bravo for being #1, though.

So before you fire off accusations that modders make content and lie about its origins, do a little research to understand how things work. Because when you don't know what you're talking about, you just make an ass of yourself.

@Fact Alert

I will state, for the third time, that I have admitted I was wrong and that I have been informed of the truth. I DO understand how modding works, I'm a game designer and programmer myself. I only thought the mod was available for the PC version of the game, because I don't normally equate modding with consoles(which I know can be done, just not easily) Why do you continue to verbally harass me? I'm not "firing off accusations" I simply was missing a few pieces of the matter, a common human mistake.

[...] Via GamePolitics [...]

@Soroki

I don't mod console games for that reason myself, and for risk of voiding the warranty and wrecking the console.

And apologies for that, I didn't see the post.

If there is anything of the sort in GTA4 then 2008 Darwin Award goes to Rockstar.
 
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Krono@Andrew That page of the comments seems to be a bit messed up. It's the one by Titanium Dragon, posted at 2:22 pm.09/19/2014 - 11:37pm
E. Zachary KnightI myself had a Twitter exchange with a gamergate person that frankly soured me on a personal level to the group. I want absolutely nothing to do with it.09/19/2014 - 11:35pm
E. Zachary KnightAnd frankly, that is the kind of tyrade that has a lot of us not wanting anything to do with the gamergate crowd. They take any comment, no matter how innocuous, and blow it out of proportion.09/19/2014 - 11:34pm
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Andrew EisenAnd he didn't go through with it because he realized it was a bad idea so there was no breach of ethics in that case.09/19/2014 - 11:26pm
Krono@Andrew To respond to your early remark about where the lack of ethics was, part of it was what Kyle Orland suggested in his article. Crossing the line from reporter to advocate. Journalists aren't supposed to support a side the way they discussed.09/19/2014 - 11:18pm
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Neo_DrKefkaI wish there was an, "I don't care." for the whole Minecraft poll thing09/19/2014 - 9:27pm
TechnogeekMy third "dart" wound up hitting a Chinese website for soccer scores, and the fourth hit Pokemon.com. Not one of those had anything to do with white guys getting harassed because they're white guys.09/19/2014 - 8:56pm
TechnogeekFor the record, I actually tried "throwing a dart at the Internet", or at least approximating it as best I could by zooming in at random spots on internet-map.net. First hit was a perfume seller, and then some sort of insurance spammer.09/19/2014 - 8:56pm
Technogeek"While you could throw a dart at the internet and find a site where Gamers in General are being harassed, doxxed, hacked, just because they are being perceived as white males." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M09/19/2014 - 8:47pm
Andrew EisenSarkeesian and Quinn continue to get harassed and attacked (with the majority of said harassment and attacks being about their gender) and so, the story stays in the headlines. If Wolfe gets swatted again, it will be in the news again.09/19/2014 - 6:56pm
Andrew EisenYou mean Wesley Wolfe? The swatting appeared to be over his DMCA takedown, not due to his color or gender.09/19/2014 - 6:53pm
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quiknkold@CraigR. Spreading Misandry is not going to kill Misogyny. Its just going to fuel it. half the people supporting that arguement are mysoginists themselves. They just dont know it.09/19/2014 - 6:51pm
Sleaker@CraigR - there's nothing to get over. There's no issue here until someone does an actual study on harassment rates.09/19/2014 - 6:48pm
quiknkoldWe never said Gamers were the only victims. Yes, Anita and Zoe got a bad rap. Yes, Zoe's ex was way out of line. Do I disagree with them? Depends on the arguement. Did they deserve what happened to them? Hell Effing No.09/19/2014 - 6:48pm
 

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