Hell they're making of fun of my people in GTA IV, you don't hear me bitching about it. (Irish FTW)

There are no positive images of anyone in GTA games. The inhabitants of the GTA world are pretty much wihtout exception detestable cretins, and are almost all over the top caricatures of everyone and everything.

As far as lampooning liberals go; How can you look at Ammunation (there are other jokes, but this is the first one that comes to mind) as anything other than lampooning conservatives? Wasn't there an Ammunation commercial in Vice City that referred to the movie "Red Dawn" as a documentary?

I myself am a white, overweight, progressive geek of russian descent. I have played every GTA save for VCS, and I have never felt offended by any of the stereotypes that cover me in these games. They are jokes, and they are fairly spread out over everyone.

If you truly find this stuff offensive, then don't play it. Rockstar is not going to come to your house, type you up, and make you play the game at gunpoint. There are plenty of things in entertainment that I do find offensive, so as a general rule I do not expose myself to them... except for American Idol, but my wife makes me watch that.

@Andy_UK

CJ actually bothered me at first. When I first started playing SA it seemed like CJ was more interested in getting his gang back together than finding out who murdered his mom. He's not any more detestable than his predecessors, but given the setup to the story, it really seemed like his priorities were screwed up.

@Father Time:

http://kotaku.com/365137/gta-+-where-are-all-the-white-gangs

:P

James Lowe
They also have a quirky sense of humor so it could be a jab on many levels all in fun, thats a trubble with PC nazis everything is serious business and personal to the point of a grudge beyond the grave.

The lampoon right-wingers pretty often too (does no one pay attention to the talk shows on the car radios but me?)

Maybe if they threw in the cousin-marrying Republican preppies from Bully everyone would be happy.

In other words, like South Park. EVERYONE gets it.

Technically, so do the white males in the GTA series, since THEY'RE the ones they're playing as, and they ARE commiting crimes in the game.

And Sonny is....?

And the folks on the talk radio are... liberals? I would have taken them for Conservatives.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Oh, and what races were the two cops who framed CJ?

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

No white gangs eh? I guess the Mafia doesn't qualify as a gang. Who knew?

*rabble-rabble*

"Mind you, of course, there are never any white gangs…"

What do you think the mafia is?

As for positive black roles, um, hello, Carl Johnson, an african american guy in San Andreas goes to break up a drug ring and deal with corruption in the police force.

And as to my point above, in both GTA3 and Vice city you played as a white guy working for a white guy gang most of the time.

White men have a gang in GTA. They're called "The Man". Almost all the cops, judges, politicians, military, spooks, etc. are white men, and they all belong to the same gang. You'll notice that in GTA, The Man is not depicted any better than any other gang. That's racial stereotyping, certainly, but I'm not convinced it reflects racism, since *everyone* is bad in GTA. The charge that he can't think of positive ethnic images in GRAND THEFT AUTO is toothless to the point of ridicule. There are NO positive images in GTA.

GTA is a very cartoony universe. They've been moving towards realism, but it's still very obviously a sarcastic pastiche of reality drawn with intentionally broad strokes. It's also required by sane game design that it be immediately obvious by their appearance to what faction any actor belongs. So, if you have an ethnic group of people who all look alike (I'm sorry, but you do. You know which ethnic group I mean.) you can't let them belong to different factions.

Mikeu, get with the program. Italians? White? You're not thinking like a RACIST!

Funny how theese voices are silent when you mention that there are white bad guys and that you play a black guy in San Andreas.
There really not agaisnt races, everyone knows what they say is meant to be treated as ironic for god sake!

GTA 3, The Mafia, GTA SA, They are the ones screwing with the casino that you have to take care of. ALL WHITE

Not to mention the cavalcade of idiotic white characters giving you missions throughout all three games.

Corrupt policemen (white in GTAIII, White and Black in GTA SA)
Corrupt politicians (White in GTA VC,
Corrupt inbred white people (Farmers in SA)
Corrupt white religious people (Radio in VC)

There are plenty of corrupt evil white people in the game. The problem of "no white game" stems from the fact that you are playing the white gang.

And the guys you played is in III and Vice City are considered "positive" perceptions of white people?

@Nightwng2000
that would be hispanic caucasian and african american.

Other caucasian gangs in GTA series:

Russian Mafia
Appearances: GTA:SA

Trailer Park Mafia
Appearances: GTA:VCS

Liberty City Biker Gang
Appearances: GTA:LCS

Biker Gang
Appearances: GTA:VC, GTA:VCS


and if i rememerber right these two were also

Streetwannabes/Sharks
Appearances: GTA:VC, GTA:VCS

Avenging Angels
Appearances: GTA:LCS

Positive stereotypes in GTA? Are there ANY? At all?
But my Irish/Welsh heritage doesn't count for anything anymore. Go figure. I'm just white.

This isn't news... every GTA player over the past 5 years has noticed this.

He forgot to mention that most of the white people in the games whom you get jobs from are sleazy businessmen. but i guess that would disprove his point because we all know you can't be racist against white people. YAY DOUBLE STANDARDS!

Doesnt corrupt police qualify as being pretty bad?

@ Stranger Danger

Actually it is legal to be racist against White people. White men at least. It is called "Equal Oppurtunity". That law bsically tells the employer if a white guy and a black guy apply for the same position you have to hire the black guy regardless of creditials.

Of course it is more complicated than that, but that is the jist of it.

Someone needs to inform this guy that there's a difference between race and ethnicity.

I seem to remember a couple of White Blokes break into Niko's flat and hold a shotgun to him. In the trailer at least.

What this person seems to believe is that it is intentional. Rather it's a portrayal of characters and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE. For example, it would seem odd for an all white gang to wear brightly coloured floral shirts, straw fedoras, say "mang", and introduce home invaders to diminutive friends. But apparently if you all thought about Cubans in Miami just then you're racist...so shame on you...you racist person you...and it's of course ludicrous to expect that accurate population distributions should be reflected anyways...I suppose he was expecting SA to say on the boxart "There are no gangs consisting of minorities in California whatsoever. Nope none - these are all just really really really tan anglo saxons - some of them might speak Spanish but they certainly didn't learn that here."

It's not intentionally "insipid" or even remotely malicious. And it's not apart of some conspiracy either. It's a game telling a story - I'm willing to bet theres going to be tonnes of white antagonists in this game because, surprise surprise, how many visually ethnic minorities do you see coming from Russia? I'm from there (originally) and at last check we weren't exactly filled to the brim with multi-coloured citizens.

Some people just look to be offended and will seek out such things quite actively. We can't let games fall victim to the same politically correct slippery slope that plagues so many other aspects of society.


Clever

@PHOENIXZERO

I know man but sadly some people out there just don't get it, there is no such thing as different races for humans, other than the Human Race (everyone). you go back far enough and everyone was one color.

YAY EYES OF NYE! everything I learned I learned from Bill Nye, The Science Guy.

Needs more wiggers. (At the expense of alienating some of its most devoted players)

I think the game is more Nihilistic than Racist. Think about it, NOBODY is a good guy. The only good people are the ones that stay silent in this game. If they add a good role model for anybody, it crumbles.

@ David D. I think they got that in IV, there is that one white guy that doesn't have a shirt on and some chains and he is talking "street"

I'm guessing our reviewer hasn't also played GTA : London 1969, which is all about cockney gangs

Italians and Haitians are now "races"? Great. Next up: old people are a race.

Gooks, Wops, Polacks, Niggers, Spics, Chincks, Dagos, Guinnies, Moon Crickets, Wetbacks, Honkeys, Spades, Pasta Pushers, Sand Niggers, and Slopes, we are all one race...The human race.

By the way...I'm a wetback!

I wonder if this blog writer is a fan of Miami Vice, Scarface, or Boyz N The Hood... as VC and SA are parodies of these works in particular.

GTA 1 & 2 have almost exclusively white gangs, and GTA 3 series has plenty of white gangs too.

The game is British, and its sense of humour shows that also. Its a great big parody of the gang/police genre films.

There is far more racism in Uncharted : Drake's Fortune. Whilst playing it I realised, I hadn't shot anyone but an ethnic minority.

POSITIVE Representation in a GTA game?

Dude, you are barking up the WRONG TREE!

There is NEVER ANYONE OR ANYTHING positive in a GTA game! Everything is a negative put-down, parody, or satire. Whether it be the government, corporations, city life, culture, sub-culture, whatever!

The ONLY person with a brain in ANY GTA game is you, the main character, and LAZLO!

That's it!

Have you ever sat and listened to the Talk Radio station in a GTA game? I mean SERIOUSLY sat, ate dinner, all while listening to it?

There is so much messed up stuff in there that will make you laugh. It's like the only sane person in the game, answering calls and talking to people that are extreme versions of stuff.

As others have pointed out, you definitely get white, non-European stereotypes in the games. The Trailer Trash mob, biker gangs, the drug abusing rock stars (Vice City) and the list just goes on.

Frankly, by narrowing down specific things in GTA, you are excluding all the other stuff too!

So far there are:

GTA3
GTA: Vice City
GTA: San Andreas
GTA: Libery City Stories
GTA: Vice City Stories

and each one has different characters, different missions, and tons of satire, parody, and lots and lots of mocking!

Also, listen to Paul Kerton. He's onto something with the Uncharter: Drake's Fortune thing.

And he's not the only one to notice:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation...

~Otaku-Man

GTA is not racist. You'd have to be an idiot to miss all of the satire and social commentary in the GTA games.

Has anyone else noticed that the majority of people who go "RACIST!" on a topic like this is the racist one? Did anyone think that any character from GTA was just out right racist?

So i guess Serbians, Russians, Italians, White Biker Gangs and Redneck Gangs (GTA 2) don't count as white gangs. Not to mention the main character in GTA 3 & VC was a serial killing white guy

Oh, and I forgot to mention - as others have pointed out, Italians, Russians and Serbians are not racial minorities - they're WHITE for crying out loud!

Yeah, I don't see what the problem is. Is this guy saying we shouldn't base criminal characters on any real life ethnicities? Should all the criminals be purple aliens? Should the Mafia speak Spanish and wear red bandanas and drive pickup trucks so we can avoid stereotyping Italians? People would just laugh at you.

When you make a game about being BAD, It's hard to show ANYONE in a positive light.

when did we make serbians russians, etc not white?
arent germans white? last time i checked my uncle was white as snow.

what makes you white?

i was born in mexico but my predecesors where spanish and german

so am i latino? am i white? am i a minority because i was born in mexico, or am i part of the white people?

Shouldn't we post these things on the blogger's post?

I thought the reason there were no white gangs was because of that war where we totally kicked Australia's ass.

quote needed to be fixed

“There are no positive images for dark brown gangs and light brown gangs, but there are no white gangs except for the italians, oh and that one jewish lawyer guy."

"who WASN’T portrayed negatively in the GTA games?"

There's the crux of the matter, EVERYONE in the GTA games is portrayed as an absolutely revolting scumbag. If that weren't the case you'd feel more than a bit awful driving around the city running over pedestrians and getting your car blown to bits after a crazy ass police chase (by corrupt cops so it's not too bad).

Furthermore I seem to remember the big string pulling asshats (the ones who would casually ask you to start a gang war between two of the minority gangs, just so the value of some of their property would go up) were all old upper class white dicks.

If anything the message sent by the GTA series (in a highly hyperbolic and stylized way) is that the plight of the urban poor is exasperated by the machinations of the rich, powerful, and corrupt, regardless of race (a message I happen to agree with).

You can see racism in anything if you look hard enough.

@OtakuMan

Yes, when I first bought GTA3, my wife and i did listen to the talk radio station while eating dinner. I actually still have that whole track on my iPod, it's fun for long driving trips.

@Ebonheart: I forgot the Yakuza were in San Andreas. Thanks for the notice.

GTA is a cartoony game. Maybe GTA IV will change that, maybe not. So far, the games representation of gangs have been sterotypical. In all seriousness, what T.V. show or movie hasn't had a LITTLE stereotyping?

You know... I wouldn't mind playing as a white supremacist working for a skinhead gang or something of that sort. I've got a sense of humour, and I like seeing game creators do something a little bit different.

Problem is, although society is quite happy to accept racist black/hispanic/otherwise ethnic gangs in their entertainment, they are considerably LESS willing to accept a racist white gang. Consequently, Rockstar is NOT going to release a game that will only be bought by neonazis and people like me. PR issues aside, that's a very small market, and I can only imagine the grief that they'd get from Jewish groups.

So yeah, the exclusion of white gangs is racist -- against whites, actually -- but unfortunately, that's the way it is.

(Note: For the sake of argument, I'm going with the blogger's view that "white" either excludes minority ethnic groups, even if those group actually are white, or merely requires a lack of focus on any particular white ethnic group. Contrast the Mafia -- an Italian gang -- with the Aryan Nations -- a white gang.)

People will see ___ism in ANYTHING if they want to. No exceptions.

@ E. Zachary Knight

You're thinking of affirmitive action. Equal opportunity means race, sex and religion should not be used for determining whether or not that person will be hired (unless of course it's applicable for that paricular job).

Russians, Serbians, and Italians are for the most part white. I believe he was trying to refer to Anglo-Americans but failed miserably.

BTW. Nobody in GTA is cast in a positive light. Not even the white guy you are playing. If you want to go into negative streotypes, pick a better example like Barbie's Horse Adventures.

@H

Son of a bitch.

Damn you Kotaku for posting something that truly doesn't matter.

Father Time = white boy

"Problem is, although society is quite happy to accept racist black/hispanic/otherwise ethnic gangs in their entertainment, they are considerably LESS willing to accept a racist white gang. Consequently, Rockstar is NOT going to release a game that will only be bought by neonazis and people like me. PR issues aside, that’s a very small market, and I can only imagine the grief that they’d get from Jewish groups."
Guess I wasn't wrong

As blind as white people to racism”. Truer words couldn't be spoken. AT leastit doesn't exist when they'reenforcing it. When done on whites, "reverse-racism" is the phrase of the day.

@icqpimp:

White girl, actually, and certainly not ashamed of it.

I'm quite fond of racist jokes, no matter who the victim is, as long as it's all in good fun. If people mock my race, I just laugh -- maybe add a few jokes of my own -- but it does bother me when I see a double standard, or worse, flagrant hypocrisy.

For example, I've had people tell me that only whites can be racist, or that it's acceptable if other races show racial pride (or even actively fight against whites) because they've been oppressed historically. According to some people, whites cannot even show a lack of shame, again for historical reasons, even if they someday become as oppressed and outnumbered as present-day minorities.

It also occurs to me that the way you've been using "white-boy" as a pejorative is really fucking racist ;)

Not that I really care... I'm just saying. I mean, if you want to be racist, that's ok (at least as long as you don't hurt anyone... I know some very nice people who identify as racists), I just hope that you'll someday have the balls to admit it.

damn man what is wrong with ppl.. whats with all the hate towards games.. you know ppl that point out the lamest shit like oh, why a jewish lawyer.. why no white gangs.. those tend to be the racist ppl.. i played and love the series too and not once did i stop to ask my self any of that.. why cause its a fluking game thats it. im rican i can care less about anything racial call me a spic or put me in a racial rican scene i can care less it wont stop me from making my money.. i guess what im saying is ppl need to grow up words are just that words and if thats all it takes to bring your world down than your 1 weak ass chump..

"Gooks, Wops, Polacks, Niggers, Spics, Chincks, Dagos, Guinnies, Moon Crickets, Wetbacks, Honkeys, Spades, Pasta Pushers, Sand Niggers, and Slopes, we are all one race…The human race.

By the way…I’m a wetback! -Mudwhistle69er"

Stupid homosapiens...

Yeah I called you a "homo".

=]

GTA is a deeply cartoonish series that is pretty much a parody of all the little things in life, rolled into one huge game series. A game of this nature would obviosly have stereotypes for the sake of humor and setting. We must also recognise that every entertainment medium has had stereotypes at one point or another (modern times included) for the same reasons. Essentially I'm saying that people need to quit getting so upset over a game.

Of course they're negative sterotypes...It's a game about gansters stealing and killing each other in order to obtain more territory to become more powerful! Some how the phrase Grand Theft Auto doesn't conjure imagines of family dinners and gatherings.

@ lumi:

She's got looks to match her voice and talent -> http://us.imdb.com/media/rm193829376/nm0974658

As for TFA, I refuse to acknowledge such idiocy.

On second thought, I will: Back in the 1990's, popular comics artist Todd McFarlane's Spawn series featured a subplot involving the KKK, in which they were portrayed as the scum that they are. One night, while watching the news, I see that someone is complaining about Spawn promoting racism (!?). It's some idiot without a clue claiming that the aforementioned issue "promoted racism", even though, as was already mentioned, the KKK members were VILLAINS, and were never portrayed in a positive manner. I see this blog author as doing the same thing, probably to claim his 15 minutes of fame. What he doesn't seem to realize, is that crap like this erodes the credibility of people with legitimate concerns over racism, which does still exist, unfortunately.

"icqpimp Says:

March 7th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Guarantee you if white people WERE the butt of the joke, and NO minorities were, you’d have these white boys screaming “reverse-racism” left and fucking right. Fuckin’ hypocrites."

Heh, you get that even with GTA as it is. eg. "OH SO ITS OK FOR CJ TO KILL A BUNCH OF WHITE GUYS, BUT NOT FOR TOMMY TO KILL A BUNCH OF DAMN DIRTY SPI-I mean...uhh...latin...guys..."

Unfortunatly games in general are generally the domain of upper-middle class white males with entitlement complexes.

"icqpimp Says:

March 7th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
As blind as white people to racism”. Truer words couldn’t be spoken. AT leastit doesn’t exist when they’reenforcing it. When done on whites, “reverse-racism” is the phrase of the day."

It reminds me of a phrase parodying the use of the term "PC" by conservative talking heads: "Remember, if it doesn't offend *you* it's only politically correct"

@ZippyDSMlee

Like that kind of shit where they were trying to get 'manhole' changed to 'person hole'?

"Humans fall into their niche groups or gangs, these gangs do not always shoot at each other but stereotyping is not “EVIL”."

No but it is fucking stupid, and people should strive to both not stereotype, as well as not fall into stereotypes.

"Ohma
“”It reminds me of a phrase parodying the use of the term “PC” by conservative talking heads: “Remember, if it doesn’t offend *you* it’s only politically correct””"
Unfortunately thats somewhat true, I am not talking about the more blatant aspects of it but the more subtle assinie ones that the PC nazis use to brow beat people with."

And again when something is even tangentally related to political correctness, you miss the point. That quote wasn't saying that PC-ness is stupid because words don't offend whoever's saying the quote; it *is* poking fun at conservative talking heads who casually dismiss any objections that a minority or liberal group might raise (say, over a bunch of fucktards raising the fucking confederate flag at their city hall) as "just political correctness" and then act like they couldn't for the life of them understand why those people could EVER get so riled up about whatever (after all, in my example it's not like raising the confederate flag represents sympathy or pride for a crappy little country started by a bunch of selfish babies who were so afraid that their neighbors were going to take away their toys that they secceded from the union and fired the opening shots in one of the bloodiest wars in US history).

Now, just to be clear, I don't agree with some people's take on how to handle "un-pc" thought/dialogue. Rather than censor it, I encourage people to spew their stupid bullshit, after all, if they keep their ignorance to themselves they can't be thouroughly ridiculed, nor their ideas deconstructed as an example to others. I do also give some people a pass on the language the use because *SHOCKER* the impact of language can vary greatly depending on the context in which it is used.

Aliasalpha
Yes I am not found of PC nazis and their bastard offspring zero intolerance..er tolerance, I'll agree people should not bully others but "PCZT" bullies people for daring to think or be human.

Race quotas are apathetic to the needs of the business a business needs smart people to run not some arbitrary mix to push up people who are not ready for a job thats beyond their skills.


Race quotas or whatever the hell they call it now really should be dropped,replace it with you get a good tax break if you can have a good mix of people/race/class in your business PCZT says we are going to let the great unwashed run the business because they have not had a fair break, missing the point money needs to be spent to over haul the edu system in the US K-C(yes collage).

Of course the current race quota system in place probably works better than I have made it sound...oh rambling rants I rambled to much :P.


Ohma
Everything falls into stereotypes..they are the apparent flaws of X populace within a race of sentient(simi or otherwise) beings, PCZT throws the baby with the bathwater out because the baby cant clean itself, people are people are solent green..not that people eat people (but some do) but people need to learn to grow a thick skin so they can deal with the reality of life, PCZT tries to protect people from reality 7 to 8 times out of 10, the 2-3 times being the bad stuff the rest merely being offended for the sake of being offended.

Oh and heads up the confederate flag is not a racist symbol, its no worse the Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan and the Black Panthers, because those who blindly love antiquated ways or race bashing to make themselves feel better use these symbols to build themselves up and disregard the deeper meaning of them.

Calling the confederate flag racist is like calling all Christians hate mongers and murders.

Oh and while I am at it the US civil war was not started solely or majorarly over slavery it was merely 1 of many that made them fight.

In Final
The trouble with PCisim it changes the context of the bloody context making it obscure to the point of stupidity .

Final Fantasy 12 Viera are not a new species to Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (and perhaps the PSOne version... I never played it) had Viera of various skin tones. I think the "jungle bunnies" thing is a reach, and I'd expect that the English racial slur / idiom would've never occurred to the Japanese developers.

James Lowe
I would not say that reverse-racism is when so called oppressed minority gains so much power it can snub and even blatantly discriminant against the group that was once in power.

However I would agree stupidity (oppression, double standards, and insults) is stupidity regardless of race,creed,gender.


And whats wrong with Race/gender-based stereotyping when in jest? Not every lil thing is a insult.

H

Oh I did not mean to imply it was not(I call sharpton and jackson racists on the grounds they burn race cards to distract from issues) .

I merely saying that when it is done it is called Reverse-racism and most use that definition but some refute the vileness of it.

I for one prefer to call a spade a spade even if I am slapped for it.
=^^=

I always find it amusing when others are shocked when someone calls it like it is in a gritty truthful manner.

Only making fun of liberals? What about "Neo Fascist Congressman Alex Shrub"?

This is very bizarre

It's a crime game
Everyone in it will be a bad guy
Of course they will be painted in a bad picture
As will any white people in it

This guy is an idiot

Aliasalpha
I kinda liked that movie....
Boomerange..now that sucks!

Yes, because criminals in movies are always sophisticated and tolerant people. They are always trying so hard not to offend anyone and so on..

Shut up ass!
Die

I like men...