Kingdom of Loathing Gamer Sentenced to Death
Kingdom of Loathing Gamer Sentenced to Death
March 13, 2008
A footnote in the video game violence debate has been sentenced to die by an Oklahoma jury.As reported by the Associated Press, jurors deliberated for eight hours before passing a death sentence on Kevin Underwood, 28. The same jury had earlier found Underwood guilty of first-degree murder in the horrific 2006 killing of 10-year-old Jamie Rose Bolin.
So what is Underwood's connection to the game violence debate?
In a 2006 hearing before the Louisiana Legislature, Rep. Roy Burrell cited Underwood's heinous crime as an example of the supposed negative effects of violent video games. Burrell was, at the time, attempting to persuade his colleagues to pass Louisiana's Jack Thompson-authored video game bill. He succeeded, although the law was later ruled unconstitutional. As I wrote for Joystiq at the time:
Burrell related [to his colleagues] the story of an Oklahoma man accused of the horrendous murder of a child. Why he chose this example... remains unclear, since the 26-year-old suspect was no kid, and the "violent" game he played, Kingdom of Loathing, is a non-retail, non-industry, online product in which stick figures – stick figures! – battle one another... His bill would have no impact on the very example he raised to support it.
A defense psychiatrist who argued that Underwood's life should be spared testified that the killer had cannibalism fantasies, "gave up on being normal," and suffered from deviant sexual disorders, deep depression, a socially isolating personality disorder, and bipolar disorder.
But, probably it was the video games...
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LOGINGamePolitics ShoutBox
Posted 11/05/09 at 05:09am
mentor07825: It certainly was a lively day in the shoutbox Andrew.
mentor07825: It certainly was a lively day in the shoutbox Andrew.
Posted 11/04/09 at 11:38pm
Michael Chandra: Waiting for an ugly game in beta to get released. And gotta go to bed now, sleep, study for exam all day.
Michael Chandra: Waiting for an ugly game in beta to get released. And gotta go to bed now, sleep, study for exam all day.
Posted 11/04/09 at 09:25pm
JDKJ: 'Sup, Chan?
JDKJ: 'Sup, Chan?
Posted 11/04/09 at 08:57pm
Michael Chandra: And I missed it due to playing a game =( I wouldn't have minded witnessing this 'game' instead.
Michael Chandra: And I missed it due to playing a game =( I wouldn't have minded witnessing this 'game' instead.
Posted 11/04/09 at 07:41pm
Andrew Eisen: Well, that certainly was a lively day in the ShoutBox.
Andrew Eisen: Well, that certainly was a lively day in the ShoutBox.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:56pm
JDKJ: And that's something for which Reagan is guilty. He completely messed up the airline industry with deregulation. And it's never really recovered since.
JDKJ: And that's something for which Reagan is guilty. He completely messed up the airline industry with deregulation. And it's never really recovered since.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:52pm
Shaoken: @JDKJ: Fair enough. Wall Street deserves a lot of blame, but so do Republicans/other polis who were against regulation.
Shaoken: @JDKJ: Fair enough. Wall Street deserves a lot of blame, but so do Republicans/other polis who were against regulation.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:51pm
Shaoken: Of course I bet he's laughing; most of the blame is going to go on Obama, and he's going to have to spend all 8 years solving it
Shaoken: Of course I bet he's laughing; most of the blame is going to go on Obama, and he's going to have to spend all 8 years solving it
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:50pm
JDKJ: Apart from the wholly public economy, I don't think it's fair to place the blame or credit at the feet of any President. The President has very little to no control over the factors influencing the much larger private econony (e.g., monetary policy).
JDKJ: Apart from the wholly public economy, I don't think it's fair to place the blame or credit at the feet of any President. The President has very little to no control over the factors influencing the much larger private econony (e.g., monetary policy).
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:49pm
Shaoken: You would think Bush would have learned that, but he did the exact same thing.
Shaoken: You would think Bush would have learned that, but he did the exact same thing.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:43pm
Shaoken: To reflect on the recession of Regean's time, I'd say he caused it. You don't cut taxes and increase military spending
Shaoken: To reflect on the recession of Regean's time, I'd say he caused it. You don't cut taxes and increase military spending
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:25pm
JDKJ: @A_L: And a full bird colonel ain't nothing more than some four-star general's grunt. That's the way the chain of command works in this man's army, Soldier!!
JDKJ: @A_L: And a full bird colonel ain't nothing more than some four-star general's grunt. That's the way the chain of command works in this man's army, Soldier!!
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:18pm
Valdearg: Can you tell him that blinking text and rotating gifs went out of style in the 90's?
Valdearg: Can you tell him that blinking text and rotating gifs went out of style in the 90's?
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:18pm
Valdearg: @A_L: You can stomach that excuse for web programming? Nothing like flashing links and sirens to start off your day!
Valdearg: @A_L: You can stomach that excuse for web programming? Nothing like flashing links and sirens to start off your day!
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:17pm
JDKJ: Then either Glenn's stealing all his shit from Matt or Matt's stealing all his shit from Glenn or maybe they're both getting it from the same shit source but, either way, you sound a lot like you're reading from over Glenn's shoulder. Trust me.
JDKJ: Then either Glenn's stealing all his shit from Matt or Matt's stealing all his shit from Glenn or maybe they're both getting it from the same shit source but, either way, you sound a lot like you're reading from over Glenn's shoulder. Trust me.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:14pm
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: you confuse military grunt philosophy with officer or special operations philosophy. Also, I don't watch beck, I read drudge report.
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: you confuse military grunt philosophy with officer or special operations philosophy. Also, I don't watch beck, I read drudge report.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:07pm
JDKJ: @Val': I quit tuning in to watch Beck's program when I figured out I was getting a daily summary of his show from Austin Lewis on GamePolitics. No need to hear the same crap twice.
JDKJ: @Val': I quit tuning in to watch Beck's program when I figured out I was getting a daily summary of his show from Austin Lewis on GamePolitics. No need to hear the same crap twice.
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:05pm
Valdearg: @A_L: If you aren't a mindless Beckite, why do you quote thier talking points almost verbatim?
Valdearg: @A_L: If you aren't a mindless Beckite, why do you quote thier talking points almost verbatim?
Posted 11/04/09 at 06:02pm
JDKJ: Absolutely it's opinion. But I don't think it's entirely far-fetched. Military philosophy places much stock in "group think" and "shoot first, ask questions later" and "when I say jump, you say how high" etc., etc. It ain't opinion without some basis.
JDKJ: Absolutely it's opinion. But I don't think it's entirely far-fetched. Military philosophy places much stock in "group think" and "shoot first, ask questions later" and "when I say jump, you say how high" etc., etc. It ain't opinion without some basis.
Posted 11/04/09 at 05:57pm
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: that would be your opinion, rather than fact. But if you believe i'm big on 'blind adherence', you're a poorer judge than you like to believe.
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: that would be your opinion, rather than fact. But if you believe i'm big on 'blind adherence', you're a poorer judge than you like to believe.
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Comments
You're KIDDING ME.
*facepalm*
So…we should just let it go, even though he murdered a 10-year-old? Or…we should let him rot in a prison for the rest of his life…? Which would be such a good option, he would fit in soo well with Bubba and all the other inmates for what he did…I guess I’m slightly confused about what the defense psychiatrist was saying… "
Trying to get a plea of insanity...I'm guessin the psych is a pacifist or doesn't believe in the death penalty....
I'm sure that many of the people that commit these crimes have played video games, so matching this crime with KoL should not happen.
"Responsibility for the responsible."
please, stick figures in a click-without-violence web-based game don't make you murder.
Unfortunetly that would be every singleone of us according to Bruce.
He's getting what he deserves.
Why would this case be used as evidence of a need for video game legislation? There are so many other examples that would have been relevant. If he was 26 at the time of the murder and roughly that age at the time he started playing the game in question, how would legislation have "helped". Even if it was a game published by a major company for a platform or PC, it would not have prevented him from buying it. And if it would, that's presents a whole new set of problems.
Note: I really don't want a crime to be commited just so this is tried.
Ooo! Bejeweled!
"Fifa 09 was so crap I just HAD to shoot up that football stadium!!!"
Lol. You just reminded me of this.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/01/08
You can't have it both ways. Either video games (and by extension, the rest of the media) are harmless, or the jails should be emptied since everyone there was brainwashed and not responsible for their actions.
I'm not shedding a tear for him though.
No local news outlets have chosen to play it that way. (pun not intended)
Lol!
Reporter: So why did you kill your friend?
Accused: *beeeeep* beat me in Sonic and Mario Olympic Games!
I can see it now, a 29 year old charged with some horrible crime, medication, drugs, emo-poetry found at his house. All his aquantinences will say how crazy he was, his psychiatrist will say how the police were warned. He will have painted the crime on his wall with his own feces.
Then someone will find Peggle in his browsers history and he will be the Video Game Criminal on Faux News.
So...we should just let it go, even though he murdered a 10-year-old? Or...we should let him rot in a prison for the rest of his life...? Which would be such a good option, he would fit in soo well with Bubba and all the other inmates for what he did...I guess I'm slightly confused about what the defense psychiatrist was saying...
However, bringing games into this benefits no one, and if he is let off with it, common sense is done for.
Neither does the defence psychiatrist said anything related to video games. Only Burrell made the inexistent link. No one except him condemned video games, not even the psychiatrist (who would be the person I usually expect to say that). A point that most people who commented seems to miss.
Or he just believes that the guy's actions were caused by a medical condition he couldn't help having.
I don't know about Oklahoma law in particular, but it's likely that someone found not guilty due to insanity would be sent to a mental hospital until they were cured (which may well be never).
However, while I support the death penalty, I have no faith in the fair application of the death penalty in the state of Oklahoma. The state is notorious for denying defendants in capital cases the most basic protections and resources to ensure that a death sentence is arrived at fairly.
I recommend "The Innocent Man" by John Grisham. It is the true story of how a man in Oklahoma was railroaded by police and prosecutors and came within days of being executed for a murder he did not commit. After reading it, I cannot support any death sentence in Oklahoma until the state fundamentally reforms how it handles capital cases.
Virtually all officials city, state, and federal government are elected not be votes but by money and who shells out most of it.
But there are a few minority cases when a person like this one with a Cannibalism fettish kills someone because of their unstable state of mind.
But it is not the games or the fetish that is responsible, because he chose to do the crime. And he did not take any responsibility for his actions,
To blame his actions on Videogames or bizarre sexual fetishes is an overtly simplistic and a wrong thing to do because I know from my own life experience that my own fetishes are just fantasy, and only will ever be a fantasy. Just like the Videogames that I love to play.
Sadly not all people have a degree of what is fantasy and what is reality.
"DAMN THOSE STICK FIGURES"
yeah those stick figures are really evil( yeah right)
later on if somebody made a game of stick figures using real popsicle sticks will we hear something dumb now???
Doesn't Viacom own a part of Midway?
------
Anyway, as I stated/speculated when Dennis first editorialized Burrell's asinine testimony: "If it were to be found out that Kevin Underwood is related by blood/marriage to American Idol champ and country music star Carrie Underwood(and it's very possible as they're both from Oklahoma), would the same rhetoric that's heaped on the video game industry be heaped on Nashville(as it should, as they've cashed in on 9/11 more times than Jack has tried to cash in on youth violence)?"
No, Viacom isn't a major shareholder in Midway Games. Sumner Redstone, who owns a big share of Viacom also owns about 87% of Midway.
No. Viacom doesn't own Midway.
Hmm well I don't have cannibalism fantasies, I guess he and I are different. Besides, I suspect that human would not be very nutritious and I'm not sure what type of side dish I'd serve. Is salad appropriate or would rice be better?
Giving up on being normal should NOT be counted as a negative thing, normal is just a synonym for boring!
*shakes her head in disgust*
This was a terrible crime, just as immigration is a real problem, but it was so obviously a case of once again trying to use distraction techniques from the real facts for the sake of armchair quarterbacking. I'm glad to see this criminal and his 'disorders' receiving justice.
That comment was a mirror of how some things, no matter how irrelevant, slips through the mind of some people skiing on thin ice.
So yeah, I'm joining the facepalm bandwagon.
*facepalm*
Death penalty is by ethics, bad. But if it gets abolished, wouldn't would-be/current criminals be happy and the crime rates might go up again? Just a thought.
Riiiiiggggghhhhttttt.......
The guy is a psycho and clearly has problems. But we really don't have the right to end his life. That makes us murderers, and I'm not a killer.
Can none of you see the blatant hypocrisy in killing someone who is found guilty of murder?
They should just send him to the loony bin.
The guy is clearly mentally ill, and should be treated and held in a high security mental hospital. OTOH it's much cheaper to shoot/gas/behead him (no idea which of those they're planning). It also gets *great* TV ratings.
Canada abolished death sentence and it's crime rates are quite low compared to the US.
"You hamstring the (name here) for 50 HP points!"
"You clobber the (name here) for 80 HP points!"
I'm going back to my campsite to buy an evil burger from my arches. Then I'm going to nap and restore my HP and spend the rest of my time in the Haiku Channel.
Whoever said Kingdom of Loathing is "violent" needs to get their head out of the sand.
They might have had a case for KoL having an "influence" if he smacked someone with a stainless steel shillelagh and then plunged a sabre-toothed lime into his leg, but as it stands who the HELL are they to blame a site in which the most interactivity there is within its interface is "click on text" as the cause of a horrific murder?
If fantasies alone were enough to send someone to prison or to their death, then my fantasies would cause me to get the death sentence in every country. Most of humanity would also join me in the gas chamber. Fortunately, the majority of us don't allow our would-be-illegal-if-it-happened fantasies to actually be played out (other than consentual roleplaying in bed).
Also, "normal" is defined as "the average level of fucked-upness in your society". Everything we have today--art, technology, science, advanced math, and so forth--was brought about by someone who wasn't "normal." It used to be "normal" to burn people alive for witchcraft, if the winter stuck around for a little longer than it should have. Don't let the term "normal" fool you. It means nothing.
And maybe he's deeply depressed and isolated BECAUSE he's suffering from a sexual disorder? If you can't get it up for whatever reason, you can damn sure bet that you're not gonna be thrilled about it.
We need to building and burning straw men. He did it--not his fantasies or illnesses. A person who does something as sinister as this does NOT need to be reformed and released back into society. He's not worth the risk. This isn't a fishing trip. "Catch and release" does not apply.
And, FYI: Industrialized prison and death sentences were never intended to be punishment for a person's crimes. They exist so that the rest of society doesn't have to become that person's victim again--for some time, at least. Somewhere along the road, we forgot what punishment is, and we started to think that giving a person access to premium cable, a Nintendo Wii, "three hots and a cot", excersize equipment (so they can get beefier and more easily commit crimes...), and fresh air, was somehow punishment. I don't have a Wii, premium cable, or an in-house gym. Prisoners get treated better than I do! Where do I sign up?
I AM JUST SAYING.
I don’t have a Wii, premium cable, or an in-house gym. Prisoners get treated better than I do! Where do I sign up?
Wasn't that the plot to an episode of Pinky & The Brain? Or was it Ren & Stimpy? Perhaps both...
Curiously on topic, it sounds like this guy (the murderer person, not Kris O) well & truly earned his fate. Goodbye and good riddance to him.
I SO hope that was facetious.
It is nice to know your posts in other places are just the same as in KoL.
In other news, I'm sure the news is at least bringing in interest in KoL. How in the name of barbed-wire fences can this game be seen as violent? Have they seen San Andres?
geesh.
I don't recall, but it sounds like something Bart Simpson might try to pull off.
Around two weeks ago, I caught a news story (that may or may not have been local--I don't remember) that was telling of a handful of prisons that were buying Wiis for inmates, because they needed more of both exercise and entertainment. When I heard the word "entertainment" used in the same sentence as "prison," I sighed heavily. I then listened to the reporter state that the inmates also get to watch HBO and Skinemax.
Even letting these guys work out (read: get stronger, so it's easier to break down a door or pin a girl to the floor) is a bit of a "dee-dee-dee" stunt. Instead, they should be forced to play Zero Wing for 8 hours each day.
"Like BDSM, the state's idea of punishment can be quite a bit of fun!"
This is just ridiculous that they'd even think of linking a spoof browser based game to a murder like that.
My faith in humanity is now steeply declining.
This is a game that challenges the brain. I have yet to feel the calling of Jick to cause me to commit murder.
Giving the devs a smack on the side of the head is the closest to vioilence that this game is likely to cause. Being an annoying wiseacre is the worst KoL might cause.
For me, that happened long before the game.
It's ridiculous. It's not even funny.
I HATE when people don't get their facts straight and try to be all elite and all-knowing. And also when the "experts" are liars and sensationalists.
All KoL is is whacking goths, emoes, bums, procratinator giants, penguin mafia, goblins, cans of vegetables, wimpy demons, misspelt skeltons, spamming noobs, drunk goats, mining dwarves, and other monsters with a sense of humor.
I mean, if KoL does influence people (It's a freaking text game, there are things called violent novels, and the pictures are there as humour, and are still. It's like reading with a few pictures here and there.), then so do novels, the media, pop culture, kiddie games (Such as not being able to die no matter what) and much more other stuff. Even real life will make people go homicidal, as when people realize they're going to die anyways. I declare this accusation as EPIC FAIL.
Give all oxigen breathers the electric chair!!! From this post it is platently obvious the the killer breathes oxygen... Is it not obviouse that the killer instinct lives in oxygen? He must be an Oxygenarian
Oh well, there's no such thing as bad advertising in the world of multi-player on-line games. Even if this story is two years old I say we take this canibalistic baby and run with it...metaphorically, of course.
:)
Good God they were not joking on the forums.
Ye God they can't be serious.
No. Just NO. Not KoL. Not associated with a killer. No. This is a dream. No.
...methinks it's Rep. Burell that needs psychiatric attention, if he thinks KoL can contribute in ANY way to crime.
But if tennis or bowling were hobbies of his, they wouldn't have thought to mention them. Of course bowling wouldn't make him do anything crazy. Neither would reading book after book about serial killers. Nope. No way.