@ Kris O.

I would support a bill banning screaming children.

The problem, as ever is that there is no-one willing to stand up and say that these people are talking nonsense. Largely because the politicians neither know nor care about the facts of video-games, they have only their agenda and a bunch of money to throw at getting votes.

I'm surprised Mayor Menino has time for this. You know how busy he is guarding Boston from the Mooninites.

Larry Mayes, Menino’s director of Health and Human Services, urged lawmakers to view for themselves some “Mature”-rated games, many of which award players points for shooting people, raping women or setting people on fire.

Mature games don't use a point system, unless it's like the point system for traffic violations

[...] The rhetoric in Boston is ramping up, with Massachusetts Health and Human Services Director Larry Mayes’ claim that mature-rated games reward players by what the Boston Herald described as “points for… raping women”, among other things. As expected, however, no specific games with this option were mentioned. Why? Because they’re aren’t any ESRB-rated games that contain any such thing. But that doesn’t matter, because selling this type of legislation sadly doesn’t require facts; the people who would support this bill are the types that can’t be bothered to check the politicos’ statements for authenticity anyway. It’s fear-mongering of the lowest order, “low-hanging fruit”, as the Herald sagely decried on Tuesday. [...]

I'm sure there are games out there that involve actively raping women. There's probably a lot that involve stopping rapes and/or catching rapists. However, I doubt any are for sale in the US, so these laws wouldn't apply. Further I doubt the majority of them are for sale period. Most are probably Flash games, so none of these laws target them in any way.

@Bob, I agree, too early in the morning for anti-non-Americanism ;)

I'm finding it hard to get my head around being told that I'm not allowed to post my criticism of a country that prides itself on its Constitution that sets out a given Right to criticise the government. Especially when that same government attempts to encourage other countries to adopt those simple principles of Freedom. Are there different kinds of Freedom that I'm not aware of? I feel like my brain is in some kind of infinite loop....

More Coffee, I think....

Mayes is probably refering to an old newspaper article my teacher once read my class about san andreas rewarding players for raping women and stuffing their bodies in dumpsters.

Oh and it looks like Thompson has already read this article.

If hyperbole was a crime, this guy would get capital punishment. I would find it really funny if various ECA members started either calling for the legistlation of "truth-in-politics" bills, or tax exemption for video games because they cure cancer.
The first option being wishful thinking, but fitting. The second being just as unfounded as these guys' bald-faced untruths. Someone should seriously start asking them not to tell lies. (and engrave it on the back of their hand a la Harry Potter)

"...many of which award players points for shooting people, raping women or setting people on fire."

Oh. My. God. I can't argue about shooting people, but name me one f**king commercial game in recent memory (forget Custer's Revenge, that's so frigging stupid) that gives you points/some sort of reward, for raping someone?!

Perhaps JT can provide us with info on all these rape games.

In The Sims 2 you can have Woohoo. But that's consensual Woohoo so that doesn't count. ;)

@ Mr Keyes

Good. I was going to post my own response to him, but it doesn;t look like that took. here's what I was going to say, though:

Please ignore Jack Thompson. He is nothing more than a demagogue and despite his assurances, the science and studies he cites are misrepresented and sketchy at best. This is a man who thrives on fear and ignorance and as the saying goes, knowledge is power.

First of all, the LA bill failed not because the game industry "blackmailed" the government. It failed because Thompson demanded he be allowed to run the whole thing his way. When they refused, citing that he had to go through the proper channels and procdures that all governments must do, he took his ball and went home. When they asked for him to come back and offer his expertise when it looked like their case was tanking, he refused.

And "Hurricane-ravaged Katrina" my ass. He couldn't have cared less about it at the time. He was quoted at one point as saying, "I have just instructed all of my... experts in the Alabama wrongful death case, all of whom have testified before Congress about the need for your kind of law, to have NOTHING whatsoever to do with your litigation in Louisiana unless I approve it... Lives are at stake, while your [Attorney General] Mr. Foti does press conferences on Hurricane Katrina..." Later he subsequently tried to sue Foti when he wouldn't do as he told him. What a guy.

Secondly, Thompson's assertion that both the VT and NIU students trained on video games is an out-and-out lie. It was briefly mentioned that Seung-Hui cho played Counterstrike in an article that appeared in the Washington Post, but was later retracted when it was proved to be untrue. The NIU investigation is still ongoing and we don't know what if any games Steven Kasmierczak played (though Thompson has threatened to sue both the police department and NIU itself if they don't do as he says and turn over their records.)

Finally what Jack Thompson won't tell you is that his law license is in order. He was recently tried for a variety of ethical misconduct charges going back as far as 20 years. The decsion is expected next month and could likely result in his disbarment. Thompson has responded by sending the court a "picture book for adults" and threatening to "figuratively" bomb out the Florida Supreme Court building.

To the government of Boston: I ask you is this the kind of person you want working with you? He's already backstabbed the LA government and will likely do the same to you when he doesn't get what he wants and will leave you to pay the legal fees when this bill fails (as it likely will as the language is nearly identical to that of the LA bill he authored). Cut your losses and ditch him and leave him to his failed career.

Go ahead and feel free to sue me, Jack. Everything I've said here is the truth and you know it. You can't hide from that. And you know right now it's come back to haunt you. Otherwise you wouldn't be so desperate right now.

I think he must be playing some hentai PC games or online flash games, or something. He's certainly not playing any games that I can wander over to Gamestop and buy.

Battle Raper, that being said, it's JP in origin I believe. Which is by default more sexually explicit than American games. It would serve America (well, me at least) well if the stigma around specifically adult games were removed. There is currently no blatantly pornographic games being sold in stores, most must be bought online and even then they where made in Japan. Americans, it would seem according to the stereotype, like blood, gore, and porn. Conveniently there is a genre for that, but it is not being exploited. Games as a media form are still in their virginity in America. There have been some in the early days but that was entirely too crude, it would be like saying reading a health book was "your first time". The game industry saw one of the traits of America (love of violence) and made games accordingly. Movies have a separate genre devoted only to pornography, there are more than enough stories involving the topic, so why are games so far behind? Part of the issue is Americans are hypersensitive to anything and everything moral. If it violates their morality it is either Satanic or causes something bad. As such they object to that which there morals deem unworthy. Mediums of all types endured this, now it is games time. So, the important question is, well games continue to shy away from the issue, to appear better overall, or will games finally create a new genre so that video games may achieve what all other mediums have enjoyed, that it will cover a base so broad that one cannot lump one genre with another.

Japanese games have rape scenes????

Really???

Yes, some do. It isn't a taboo there in the context of a game.

"Mayes pointed to several researchers who have found a correlation between such games and aggression."

This statement raises my level of aggression. This is retarded.

Here's a small list of every-day activities that raises your level of aggression:

Standing in line;
Being put on hold;
Sitting in traffic;
Having to call customer service;
Listening to children scream;
Getting ticketed for a traffic violation;
Having your roommate/family/friends/neighbors suck up your bandwidth, while you're trying to get your game on/porndog;
Debugging a program.

So when can we draft a new bill, which makes it illegal for children to scream? Or how about arresting that old lady who's counting pennies on the counter, while your arms are falling asleep from the 60 lbs. of groceries that you're carrying? I'm all for fining officers who pull you over, too. And getting cut off by a 20-year-old, steroid-popping kid in dad's car? Death sentence.

And as for rape in video games? As long as they didn't do some motion capture of an actual rape, who really cares? Rate it "M" or "AO", and let the adults buy it if they so choose. I can buy a gun; I can buy hardcore BDSM and rape fantasy pr0n; but I can't buy a video game that depicts anything more than I can already see on prime-time network programming? Blah.

@DeusPayne

They're located in his imagination.

Happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday dear, MonkeyPeaches, happy birthday to me.

If Mayor Mumbles is in fact right to do all he can to protect children, how come he ain't done squat to protect the children of Roxbury and other Black and Brown Southside neighbourhoods from hunger, crime, inadequate housing, dysfunctional public schools, and an utter lack of future employment prospects?

Maybe he should try his hand at remedying Boston's real-world problems before tackling any virtual ones.

Where the hell are all these games coming from?

Can't be Japan, the people talking about these games aren't likely to import any just to make their point seem more valid

What, somehow are features the developers didn't even know about surfacing?

Battle Raper. Although most people wouldn't even call that a game.

Happy Birthday Monkeypeaches.

I hope Mommypeaches and Daddypeaches bought you a very expensive game full of debachery for your birthday :)

This is madness, we must stop Boston from spreading these lies... but how...

I KNOW! *gets up on a grand pedestal* RELEASE THE LITE BRITES!

of april

Alright then, two can play at this game. Larry Mayes rapes people on a daily basis.


Figuratively speaking.

Japan has TONS of sex simulators, some are rape simulators. Just Google or search ebay for Rapelay, battleraper or battle raper and Biko

Probably a better question would be..

'How many games involving rape have been allowed onto the market by either the ESRB or BBFC?'

Since the pixellated crap that was Custers Revenge was released before the BBFC started rating games, the correct answer is none, they can only be imported, and at least in the UK, that is, strictly speaking, illegal.

You can't even really mention Japanese games unless America is basing it's laws on what is available in an entirely different country.

@ GoodRobotUs

You're on to something there.

Everytime I read about this guy and his bill, I try to remember that the same man is afraid of Lite Brite. Talk about being nuts.

We had both an ESA and a EMA rep on the floor there. From how the story reads, they were there when the "rape games" comment was made.

Why in the @#$% aren't they calling these blatant lies out for what they are?

@Starsmore:

There's no way for them to prove that there aren't while they're in there, I would assume.

But there is some porn games made in United States, like Sexvilla 3D, but is not in the mainstream industry, and is not about rape and it is only about porn.

Somewhere I read about in Japan is illegal to sold their games in foreing countries. I think Illusion (Schoolmate, Rapelay, Artificial Girl) said in their official page they can´t sold their games on United States, even when there are many people interesed in their games in America.

Been said before, but I'll say it again, PROOF WERE IS THE PROOF?!?!
ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TAKE THESE HONEST (ie. LYING) GENTLEMEN (ie. MORONS) AT FACE VALUE?!?!?

@ GoodRobotUs

Yeah, and those games you don´t know anything about their existense.

I heard one time that in United States is illegal to make porn movies about rape. Is that truth?

@Starsmore

It's like they're expecting us to do it on their behalf, AGAIN!!!

Hmm, shooting for points yep, setting people on fire? yep Rape? What game that IS NOT a hentia sim that has interactive rape?

I've little doubt that he thinks GTA has rape in it. I've got a video clip somewhere of Lieberman saying the same thing. I wrote a post on my blog a couple years ago saying that there is no rape in GTA and it still gets occasional hits from people searching for "gta rape" or "videogame rape" http://popularculturegaming.com/?p=167

Mark Foley was one of the foremost opponents of child pornography, and was found to be soliciting sex form young pages in the senate.

Spitzer vowed to end prostitution in New York, and got caught dipping.

So Menino is against rape, eh.....

@Christian Astrup

1) Concensus seems to be that it is called Battle Raper, or it is a figment of a diseased mind ;)

2) Stupid ones who cannot be bothered to read the age ratings that already exist on games, and beleive the child telling them there is no objectionable content over the sales clerk reading them the rating descriptors and telling them, from personal experience, what the game contains.

@monkeypeaches

Happy birthday! Have some virtual orgasmic rape for me

Makes we wonder if this guy wasn't watching the "Atari Porn" episode of the Angry Video Game Nerd.

I would guess his statements are covered under the "Speech and debate clause" (did he make these statements on the statehouse floor?). But in any case it's getting so frustrating that no one calls these guys to task at the moment.

My guess is this won't change until someone from the gamer generation gets elected to high office. Until we have real representation nothing will change.

@Buckeye531

Or Super Smash Bros. Brawl because of the suggestive grab Snake has :D

@ Buckeye531

Or a JT press release LOL

WHY in the year 2008 does ANYONE believe what spews from the mouths of politicians?!?!?! WHY!?!?

Game proposal: Get permission from Steven Colbert to create the game "Truthiness" where the whole point is to find out if a politician is lying or telling the truth. Rated S for Sheeple.

@Waffles:

Yeah see now you're getting it....

@Mr Keyes:

*Cue angry email to the 'censor in chief' of that particular website in 3... 2... 1...* :P (Apologies to Dennis, but I thought it was appropriate in this instance. ;))

@Black Manta

"Finally what Jack Thompson won’t tell you is that his law license is in order. He was recently tried for a variety of ethical misconduct charges going back as far as 20 years. The decsion is expected next month and could likely result in his disbarment. Thompson has responded by sending the court a “picture book for adults” and threatening to “figuratively” bomb out the Florida Supreme Court building."

Now why would he tell you a silly thing like that? Especially when it would paint a negative picture of him... besides it's all just lies and slander/libel cooked up by the Videogame industry because they're all out to get him!

@Void Munashii:

"I think he must be playing some hentai PC games or online flash games, or something. He’s certainly not playing any games that I can wander over to Gamestop and buy."

... as if he'd be able to tell the difference?

@ Vinzent

I don't think he is for rape, maybe he's for "Catching person unaware for surprise sex." He is a politician after all, he's a politicain he'll find some way to spin it.

And since when is the Feds in the business for telling parents how to raise kids?

According to most Senators EVERY gamer has or will commit multiple counts of homicides/rapes/GTA/Larciny/Blackmail/Possestion of Illegal weaponary.

Hmm come to think of it maybe we should be like those pro-life groups who "accidently" destroy a family clinic, but instead of explosives, we run around towns putting 360/Wii/PS3 on avid anti-video game people's doors steps and offices. Gorrila tatic it only minus the mayhem and destrution of property. Except not in Boston they did go ape s**t over the lite-bright of ATHF.

And which game is this? Not that I would want to play it but really now. I go to many sites devoted to the development of video games. Developers pay attention to what other developers are doing in games. And there has NEVER been any news of any video game, official or otherwise, that has rape in it.

This guys is a total asshole....

im still looking for a game that awards you points for killing people rapping hookers and stealing cars..... but I just can't seem to find it anywhere..

Now...correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the same mayor that seemed to think that the Aqua Teen Hunger Force Mooninites were terrorist bombs? You'd think with Harvard and MIT so close, Bostonians wouldn't be so stupid.

What I would say as a rebuttal to Larry Mayes, Mayor Menino’s director of Health and Human Services.
*B**** slap*
That's my rebuttal to his ignorance.

Bottom line is this: Because they don't understand games and don't understand our Generation, they want to take away everything that we called fun.

Just because the generation before them attempted the same thing and failed doesn't mean that they're going to succeed here.

I think that these politicians are afraid of the fact that their time is almost over and that with our generation, we're a lot smarter than they are. But it would be nice to see a lot more gamers as congressmen.

[...] Power play on Beacon Hill [The Boston Herald, via GamePolitics] [...]

@ DarkTetsuya

It would be very hard for him to prove libel considering this is all a matter of public record including the direct quote I used against him and can be corroborated from a variety of independent sources. So the onus is on him to prove it isn’t.

@ DavCube

Thanks for pointing out the whole points issue with GTA. One thing that really ticks me off is when video game critics come off sounding like retards who are completely out of the loop. If you don't play video games take note of the following: they're called "video games" not "videoes;" most games today outside of the sports genre or games that are intentionally trying to be somewhat retro do not award you "points" for anything, on that note, you also usually dont "lose a life" or have a set number of "lives" anymore these were both features from the days of the arcade that have since been largely discontinued; finally, THERE ARE NO CONTEMPORARY INDUSTRY-MADE GAMES THAT FEATURE EXPLICIT SCENES OF RAPE IN ANY WAY LET ALONE AWARD YOU FOR IT!

Oh, and sorry for the double post but I would suggest anyone registered to vote in Boston e-mail this guy immediately and demand he either a) name a single industry-made video game, rated by the ESRB, that awards a player for committing an act of rape, or b) publically correct his false statements and issue an apology.

WOW this is crazy.. im kinda new to gamepolitics, im amazed at how everyday video games get bashed by these old time politics.. what game gives you points for rape???? do these ppl ever look into things before talking out the ass?? why is it that they can miss represent games so badly( like fox) and not get sued?? im sure if that lame guy jack was miss represented he would sue!! and what the hell is wrong with the esrb?? its easy to understand, its in the front and back of the cover, so how is it broken?? its up to the store to inforce it.. just like its up to the theaters to inforce their ratings, and porn spots to not let minors in.. i know eb, walmart, and gamestop inforce it, im 24 and i get id'd from time to time.. so what the hell am i missing??

I just wish someone would call these politician out on their factual errors. I want the big media companies to start doing this than doing their sensationalist news crap. They have turned the news into He said, she said, on [insert topic] than actually going back and checking the facts that go along with story.

you are more likely to hear "[insert Name] said this [insert statement]" and this "[insert Name] said this [insert statement] and [insert "factual" evidence AKA Mass Effect Sex Scene] " than [insert name] said this [insert statement] and when asked if he has actually viewed or done [insert topic] blah blah. After reviewing [insert statement] I went to check out their sources and blah blah blah.

I dont see the mainstream news actually doing this any more. If anything Mainstream news has turned into a gossip show. "oh did you hear blah blah house burnt down probably due to drugs", "oh did you hear what [politician] said about [politician].

@ Starsmore

The comment by Mr. Mayes was not made while we were in the room.

The Joint Committee on the Judiciary heard testimony on 72 bills yesterday, including the Menino bill. H. 1423 was taken up about 90 minutes into the session (after the Governor and a number of members spoke on other measures). Speaking against the bill were ESA, ESRB, EMA, a video store owner from Arlington, MA, and IGDA.

Mr. Mayes did not speak when H. 1423 was taken up. In fact the only individual who spoke in favor of the bill while we were there was the legislative sponsor, Rep. Linda Dorcena Forry, who stated that the bill would help reduce violent crime across the state.

When we were done, the committee moved on to another bill.

Sean Bersell
EMA

Pop Matters' analysis is, I think, incorrect in its prediction that HR1423 will not pass the Legislature. I think it will. And that's the problem. Not enough of those legislators have either the sense or the courage to say, "This Bill will not survive judicial scrutiny and is a waste of our time and money." No. They'll pass it and then wait for some federal judge (who isn't elected and don't give a rat's-ass about a vote) to strike it down. At a cost of $200,000 in legal fees to the taxpayers of Massachusetts.

That's why I will forever hold in uptmost regard my girl, Congresswoman Barbara Lee (D-Oakland), the only Congressperson in either chamber to vote against the War in Iraq. Too bad so many other politicians don't have that sort of political courage (and, foresight, as it turned out).

there is only one thing to do, vote. vote your hearts out, if you are 18 and older, vote. show them the door by voting them out on the collective arses.

to the US detractors, go kill yourselves, you don't live here and only know of what you have heard or otherwise been told by someone as illinformed as yourselves. these so called social taboos are polidriven nonsense. just because some people feel that way doesn't by anymeans means everyone does. "world leader A hates dogs" does not in any way lead me to believe he's the leader of a nation of dog hating troglidites (sp?). so back off the hate and learn to embrace. the US, for the most part, has. and so what if US social values are different than your nations, thats life. i could just as easily say, "country X's views on violence are poppycock, they don't know whats just and wholesome." and i'd be wrong for doing so. as wrong as claiming videogames as murder/rape simulators.

the worlds awry with foolish people that forget adults play video games too. my good friend Sven in gremany has told me of the horror of adult gamers there. sex and violence are tabooed in video games. which means nintendo rules over there with it's all to cutesie kid friendly games. i don't want to live in that world that tells me i can't have gore in my games. i'm an adult, a voting adult that says nay to taking my rights to play sex filled violent games away. point the fingers where they belong, the parents. the final line of defence, the best damn line of defence. if they don't wanna do their jobs, neither do i. not my child, not my concern, the justice system will deal with their children when the proper time comes. (trust me, it will) millions, nay, billions of dollars spent on a ratings system and educational materials, wasted. all because little johnnys parents are to obsessed with their own lives to give a carp what their child plays, until they see it for themselves. what of the children that don't want games like GTA? i'm sure they are out there. i've been in my local game store during the adult buying the M rated game for the underaged kid senerio. clerk tells them it may not be suited for the kid, they get angry and buy it anyways. whose at fault?

I wish I could be playing the games that lead these guys to from such negative stereotypes.

Why can't wqe sue the man for making such inflammatory statements such as this?

@jack

By we I mean the ESA or the ECA, and still I don't think libel and slander laws need proof that they caused damage (could be wrong). Although in any case WHY don't they call him out on this bullshit?

This is the exact shit that makes me want to quit studying IT & go into journalism so I can be there when a politician spews this crap & ask "what game?". Then when they're evasive because they clearly have made this shit up, I'd lay into them for not having any research & demanding that they show proof or shut the fuck up.

It'd be a very SHORT journalistic career but a memorable one

@Oz

If she wasn't tied against her will, does that mean she was a bondage fanatic? If so, the alleged rape may have been a BDSM fantasy being played out between consenting adults.

Hehe they should remake custers revenge for the Xbox 360 Arcade

What the hell is he talking about? I've never seen a game where you can rape anyone

[...] a hearing on a game violence bill held yesterday by the Massachusetts legislature, a top aide to Boston Mayor Thomas Menino charged gamers score points for, among other things, “rapingWe challenge the Boston Mayor to name even a single game that features such an action… read more | diggstory [...]

Having lived in the Boston area, I can tell you, how full of sh*t, Larry Mayes is:

"I’m sure you will conclude Mayor Menino is in fact right to do all he can to protect children, even if it means pushing back on a multi-billion-dollar industry"

Now, take out 'children' and insert 'citizens'. Then assume we are talking about the constuction business.

As its well understood by people in the Boston area, just how screwed up the BIG DIG is/was. Well over budget, over time, and it LEAKS of water. If Mr. Mayes was as serious of the Big Dig and the consturction companies as he is of the gaming industry....he'd be laughed out of his day job! The Major of Boston, is, a good guy. He has PLENTY of other problems to deal with, then dealing with the gaming industry.

@ Pinkuh

keyword JAPANESSE, our laws will have no effect on them. Were speaking on American games.