British MP Attacks Appeal Board's Release of Manhunt 2

March 20, 2008 -
As has been widely reported, the controversial Manhunt 2 was cleared for release in the U.K. last week by the Video Appeals Committee.

However, Kent Online reports that Conservative MP Julian Brazier (left) has weighed in against the decision:
This shows once again that the BBFC and its appeals system do not meet the concerns of the public. The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area.

We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social. Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour.

We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do.

GP: Like, if they watch their elected officials wasting time on video games while important issues go unattended they feel a bit queasy?

Brazier hopes to introduce an appeals process to overturn rating decisions made the raters at the BBFC. As GamePolitics has reported, he and MP Keith Vaz, another longtime game violence critic, met with Prime Minister Gordon Brown on the issue earlier this month.

Comments

Nanny state.

I can't smoke in public

I can eat what I want with some health nut telling me other wise.

I am taxed so bad I can't afford my own place.

I HAVE NO REASON TO RESPECT MY OWN TIME/ MONEY WASTING GOVERNEMENT.

"This shows once again that the BBFC and its appeals system do not meet the concerns of the public. The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area."

We'll be the jugde of that. Because the public is "we".

Clearly this guy isn't getting enough legitimate work to do, and looking to join a hot-button issue movement to pass the time.

“We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social."

We need a consensus on his opinion? CS, Day of Defeat, TF2 are all extremely violent, but I have had hours upon hours of fun with my friends at LAN parties and online playing them. How is that anti-social? Oh, I forgot, ye olde stereotype of gamer sitting the basement with the lights off staring at the screen...

“Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour."

No, it doesn't. I've watched countless gory deaths in gameplay and cut-scenes over the years. People being shot, stabbed, chopped, eaten, impaled, etc. That's make believe though. When it comes to real life, I start to shake, my heartbeat races and my breathing speeds up if I ever need to get an injection or have blood taken. Needles terrify me. My mother once cut her hand while chopping vegetables in the kitchen. It wasn't a serious injury but it did bleed heavily. Upon seeing the blood and hearing her in pain I nearly fainted. Watching these things happen did not effect my behaviour.

“We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do.”

I believe the man is confused and has mixed up his sentence. What he meant to say (I'm sure) is that there is a strong link between what people do and what they watch. A violent person will more than likely be attracted to watching violent movies, playing violent games, etc. He has the cart before the horse I'm afraid.

''Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour.

We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do.
''

yeah.. im sorry lets all ignore scientists that say there isnt a causal link..

i mean you know better.....*clap*........*clap*.........*clap*....

But there is NO scientific evidence to back up what he's saying. And he's saying as if it IS hard evidence that if I play, I don't know, Spyro the Dragon, I'm going to turn into a crazy pyromaniac and believe I'm a dragon.

And there is NO mass public opinion opposing video games in the UK, as far as I'm aware anyway. Why would we care, we're not crazy like half of America. Trust a Conservative to come out with stupid claims like that. If the government is so concerend with this, then give us a referendum please. I am sick of the government assuming they know what the masses want and think, and I'm sick of having a system where the public, the demos (people for any of you who know any ancient greek), have virtually no participation in politics.

But what if I were to play or watch a violent video game or video with someone else? Then how would that be anti social?

Oh won't someone think of the......adults???? Come on here its getting an 18 rating people.

"The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area."

No. loud-mouthed, ignorant, bigoted politicians want change in this non-vital area in order to shift blame from their own shoddy policies.

"We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social."

Clearly this man hasn't seen the throes of people attending various gaming conventions the world over. PAX, Tokyo Game Show, Digital Overload, E3... the list goes on. And wasn't the term "Anti-Social" heavily used by the Soviets?

"We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do."

Well, if thats the case, then we also need to recognize that the sky is green and the oceans are made of jell-o.

'This shows once again that the BBFC and its appeals system do not meet the concerns of the public. The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area.'

Speaking as the public, I'd like to say: Bite Me.

They do not meet the concerns of th epublic because the public has irrational concerns.

Did Britain's government redefine "public" to mean "nanny-state politicians with their heads up their arses" when I wasn't looking?

Okay, for one you're no psychologist, two, there exists no proof of a correlation between people's behavior and on-screen violence

>This shows once again that the BBFC and its appeals system do not meet the concerns
>of the public. The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area.

This shows once again that the BBFC and its appeals system do not meet the prejudiced hysteria of certain members of the public who haven't even played the game. like myself, who are clearly authorities on human psychology.

>We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are
>extremely anti-social.

We need a consensus that things i find disagreeable should be banned before any "scientific" research get's a chance to cause me any of that cognitive dissonance i find so disagreeable.

> Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour.

I don't need science telling me what to think, being an MP i know about how people behave when they play games i've never even bothered to play myself.

>We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what
>they do.

we've got to recognise that my "common sense" is always right and scientific research and reason is clearly wrong.

also, I am as high as a kite.

“We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do.”

yes yes yes, fictional vioilence is going to overrule the influence of real-world violence. lets give this guy a medal.

"The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area."

Which is why the ban was so controversial. Obviously.

/b

"We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do."

yet i've yet to find a single other gamer who has any desire to raid tombs.
Julian Brazier debunked!

"We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do."

Like... watching and being educated by religious leaders who spread bigotry and hate against others based on race, gender, religions, sexuality, etc, etc?

Maybe we should be doing more research into the link between bigotry and hate being taught to individuals through religious beliefs and the violence committed against individuals based on race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. I suspect we'll find a strong link in the teaching of "moral superiority" over certain groups of individuals and the violent actions of various individuals throughout society. Even various abuses (verbal, mental, physical, and even sexual) committed within the home and within school settings.

After all, young impressionable minds who've been repeatedly led to believe that they are superior to various groups of individuals may actually expand that teaching to believe that anyone they don't approve of is inferior and therefore must be dominated, even violently, by them.

So, yes, he's right. We MUST "protect the children" from harmful exposures that will lead people to be aggressive and violent.

So we'd better hurry and get around to legislating religious texts to be sold ONLY to adults. And we must legislate that exposing children to religious text is like subjecting them to pornography. Plus, we need to have all religious structures moved to a distance no less than 1000 feet from any residential areas that may contain children. Plus, all religious services may not be attended by anyone under the age of 18 years old.

We must hurry up and do this to "Protect the Children!" And if you don't agree with me, then you must be out to mentally harm children!

After all, we don't want more violence like the kid at the Oxnard middle school who shot another kid because he was apparently homosexual. It was obviously religion that mentally molested him and made him a threat to others. Just like religion was to blame for all the other kids picking on the shooter about maybe being homosexual. We need to demand search warrants for religious texts in the home of the shooter and the homes of those who picked on him!

And how about the guy who shot up the Nebraska church? They are claiming he "hates Christians" but everyone knows he was abused by his religious zealot Parents for years on end. Kids abused by religion will go out and commit violent acts as retribution, so it's religion's fault.

We must "protect the children" from this obscene filth!

And all those other killings because the victims were possessed, or God told the killer to microwave their baby, or God says killing babies is wrong so we should kill the adults, and so on and so forth! Evil evil people! We have to "protect the children" from these perverts!

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
P.S. You do know I was being a smartarse, right?
Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

"Like, if they watch their elected officials wasting time on video games while important issues go unattended they feel a bit queasy?"

@GP

Really, just stop right there. This is grade A shite. Compared to the American system of politics, the British system spends very little time dealing with video game matters. To say that important issues are being ignored in favor of debating video games just highlights your bias as well as your ignorance of the British political system.

So what...hey you Brit gamers..Is this guy any good as an MP?

If not...i aint surprised

@Nash

Never heard of him before he started waving the 'Games are Bad' flag, just another 'Brrrhuherehere Gnnngh!' sound from the Back Benches.

I suppose it's the same in the US, just because someone says it, doesn't mean anyone listens. I always hate being told what my opinion is, however, which is what he does here, that really gets my goat.

Nash, he seems just like your average British politician.
I suggest you looks here
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/julian_brazier/canterbury

Meh, the BBFC is just Brazier's hobby horse. I think he's still feeling sore about his failed bill. It really doesn't matter much until, and unless, he can whip up a broader base of support.

As it stands Brazier is really lying through his teeth when he says "The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area". Politically this isn't even a blip on most people's radar, so I've got to agree with Buncha in that regard (albeit more politiely ;) ).

Gift.

So I guess I need another ship, this one carrying the UK's morons in office on its way into the sun. Though might just "go cheap" and send it to Venus.

Just FYI,for the non-brits, Brazier has form with the BBFC. It's not just video games he wants censored, he's just got a bit of an authoritarian streak.

Gift.

Ah this guy.

You know I don't mind the BBFC. I just dont think they should be involved with Video Games. The clue is in the name BBFC.

But this guys beef with the BBFC is that he saw some formally banned in the UK films for sale in the UK. They were banned back in the "video nasties" era 80s, back when the BBFC first had power over home video. Its 20+ years since then, and the BBFC (wisely) decided that are tame compared to other films getting an 18 rating now. He bought video games in to it just to get some more support (he also got a anti-semitism group involved, since one of the films was set in a Nazi SS Camp or something)

To put it into persepective, backbench MP's can put forward their own "private members bills" to be considered for legistation. They are are allocated a small percentage of time for debate. The vast majority of them don't go anywhere.

Gift is right when he says its Braziers hobby horse. No one else has suggested the idea, its does not reflect the virw of the government and its currently not looking too healthy for his bill.

You usually see this kind of 'bandwagon' attitudes working so they can get their name mentioned.
In other words, small time politicians pick subjects that are not 'big issues' so they can get noticed. Ohhh I'm saving the children, now vote for me when I try and get promoted off this tiny wooden bench right at the back of the Commons.
Yawn.

Besides the guy looking fugly...he's apparently a douche as well, pro-censorship, anti-smoking and is anti-equal rights for gays...

Sounds familiar...

Seriously, its over, get over it already, its released, quit your bitching, honestly.

Another FYI seen as someone will inevitably ask where this guy gets his ideas from.

First his blog, click the Private members bill link for his explanation.

Second, the report he bases his pro-censorship stance on. Needless to say he editorialises the report's conclusions and research.

Conveniently the report provides a three point summary right at the start, so you can get an idea of where his view diverges from the report:

1. The REA supports the existence of some harmful effects from extreme pornography on some who access it. These included increased risk of developing pro-rape attitudes, beliefs and behaviours, and committing sexual offences. Although this was also true of some pornography which did not meet the extreme pornography threshold, it showed that the effects of extreme pornography were more serious.

2. Men who are predisposed to aggression, or have a history of sexual and other aggression were more susceptible to the influence of extreme pornographic material. This was corroborated by a number of different studies using different methods and different samples.

3. The REA found no formal research studies of the effects on those who participate in making extreme pornography.

this dude is my local mp (though i didn't vote for him) and tbh he is a complete waste of time. it's amusing and annoying watching him comment on this area since he clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. bah.

Didn't some Psycology professor show that games like WoW, and Halo actually demanded social behavior to achieve objectives?

"We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do."

So what he is saying is that we are stupid.

"We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social. Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour."

In what way? Oh, you just don't care what way, you just care that they're not listening to you at the moment, right?

"We’ve got to recognise that there’s a strong link between what people watch and what they do."

Too bad that hasn't been proven yet, dumbass.

"The public wants a significant tightening up in this vital area."

No, that's what YOU want. What you want isn't synonymous with what the public wants.

Why do politicians seem to forget that violence existed before videogames for thousands of years? Just because they spend all their free time working on public image and shoving their heads further up their ass doesn't mean everyone else does.

And why do these people also forget that gamers spend countless hours chatting with other players, comparing skills/items, and engaged PvP/multiplayer matches? How is it a bad thing or anti-social that a gamer might be on friendly terms with people of other countries?

@Elalonna,

They probably do know, and they probably don't really believe the strong alleged link between video games and violence (except maybe for Jack T who has effectively brainwashed himself). These guys just want to create some busywork to divert from the real issues that deal with society or the economy. Real as in, actually involving a lot of work.

Let it die. Just let it die.

So stupid, hes commenting and making bogus claim on things he doesnt have a clue about.... Its fine if the game is an 18+ just like a film with alot of violence etc should be, its all just media, just make sure it has the right restrictions for buying the item. Its all relative ffs and by the way theres alot of games out there that actually provoke social behavior, team work etc especially now with the internet.
The people who are antisocial online and/or actually reinact anything in real life, become aggresive or whatever, well they have problems that are nothing to do with playing the game, watching a film or listening to music, it does NOT count for the majority of the public and you cant say the game is doing this, its just stupid missinterpretation of whats really going on, these people most likely are actually mentally unstable or just uneducated.

In my opinion that is one dumbass politician that doesnt really have a clue whats going on. How do such ignorant people become politicians.

@JustChris

Yeah, I know, but I still wish somebody could knock the wind of out these politicians and anti-gamer whackos.

There's even cases where the speech of KKK members were protected speech according to the First Amendment. Yet videogames apparently arent. It just makes no sense. So videogames are so vile even racism is more okay? WTF?

[...] Julian do you have proof that the British public is so concerned about Manhunt II? This is barely reported in the press so where is the public outcry you speak about? read more | diggstory [...]

Notice how he says "We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social. Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour" not "We have a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social. Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour." So basically he's looking for problems where they aren't, rather then focusing on where they actually are. Politicians, placed in office to create problems, not solve them.

"We need a consensus that videos and video games involving extreme violence are extremely anti-social. Watching these things happen does affect people’s behaviour."

No YOU need a consesus as does the entire anti-gaming side just so you can make your censorhsip seem justified. Oh and more importantly YOU need scientific back-up, not us the gamers.

I read in a book about a moral panic Britian had over violent movies like Rambo (i think they referred to them as the video nasties) and this seems so very very similar.

Golly, what a cunt. Still, he's completely misjudged the majority public (not middle-England)sentiment.

As with so many others, he is older and will die sooner than most of us. Take small comfort in that, at least.

@ MonkeyThumb

Golly gee wilkers Batmonkey! That MP is full of s***!

Now I can see why some people think kids or even teens are brainless zombies who copy everything they see but this guy wants to tell legal adults what they can and can't see. I'm sorry but how is that not a form of fascism? Why should the parliament be able to override any descion that the BBFC makes? Thank God I live in the states where we have the constitution.
 
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NeenekoMakes sense to me, and sounds kinda cool. One cool thing about Minecraft is the meta game, you can implement other game types within its mechanics. There are servers out there with plots, an episodic single player one sound kinda cool12/18/2014 - 11:07am
MaskedPixelantehttps://mojang.com/announcing-minecraft-story-mode/ Umm... what?12/18/2014 - 10:24am
NeenekoThat would make sense. Theaters probably can not afford the liability worry or a drop in ticket sales from worried people. Sony on the other hand can take a massive writeoff, and might even be able to bypass distribution contracts for greater profit.12/18/2014 - 10:03am
ConsterNeeneko: I thought they cancelled it because the major cinema franchises were too scared of terrorist attacks to show the film?12/18/2014 - 9:55am
Neeneko@Wonderkarp - there is still a lot of debate regarding if the movie was a motive or not. Unnamed officials say yes, the timeline says no.12/18/2014 - 9:10am
NeenekoSomething does not smell right though, Sony is no stranger to being hacked, so why cancel this film? For that matter, they are still not giving in to hacker's original demands as far as I know.12/18/2014 - 9:06am
PHX Corp@prh99 Not to mention the Dangerous Precedent that sony's hacking scandal just set http://mashable.com/2014/12/17/sony-hackers-precedent/12/18/2014 - 8:25am
Matthew WilsonI hope its released to netflix or amazon12/18/2014 - 12:11am
prh99Basically they've given every tin pot dictator and repressive regime a blue print how to conduct censorship abroad. The hecklers veto wins again. At least when it comes to Sony and the four major theater chains.12/17/2014 - 11:55pm
MaskedPixelante"It's not OUR fault that our game doesn't work, it's YOUR fault for having so many friends."12/17/2014 - 9:48pm
Matthew Wilsonapparently tetris did not work because he has a full friends list12/17/2014 - 9:21pm
WonderkarpSo Sony cancelled the release of the Interview. was it ever confirmed that the Sony hacking was done because of that specific movie?12/17/2014 - 8:54pm
MaskedPixelanteWow, Ubisoft went four for four, I didn't think it was actually possible.12/17/2014 - 8:37pm
MechaTama31Oh, ok, I was mixing up "on Greenlight" and "Greenlit".12/17/2014 - 8:23pm
Matthew Wilson@phx you beat me to it. how do you screw up tetris?! my ubisoft this is just stupid. no one should ever preorder a ubisoft game again! ps people should never preorder any game regardles of dev.12/17/2014 - 6:28pm
PHX Corphttp://www.ign.com/videos/2014/12/17/what-the-heck-is-wrong-with-tetris-ps4 I give up on ubisoft12/17/2014 - 6:01pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://comicbook.com/blog/2014/08/16/exclusive-original-unaltered-cut-of-star-wars-trilogy-to-be-rele/ Yeah, this'll never happen.12/17/2014 - 5:03pm
NeenekoThey have and exercise control over which games are allowed on their privately controlled 'open forum'. Their endorsement is fairly minimal since it is only 'we do not reject this', but it is still an endorsement of sorts.12/17/2014 - 3:58pm
NeenekoHistorically there have been issues with libraries allowing some groups but not others. Perhaps 'endorsement' is too strong a word, but their editorial control IS a preapproval process, even if the standards are pretty minimal.12/17/2014 - 3:56pm
E. Zachary KnightLet's put this a different way. My local library allows any group to reserve and use multipurpose rooms. That does not mean that the Library endorses all events that take place in those rooms.12/17/2014 - 12:54pm
 

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