Blizzard, Bot Program Creator File New Motions Against Each Other
Blizzard, Bot Program Creator File New Motions Against Each Other
March 24, 2008
You may recall that, about a year ago, World of Warcraft publisher Blizzard sued computer whiz Michael Donnelly, creator of a popular WoW botting program known as Glider.Last week, both sides filed new motions in U.S. District Court for summary judgment, essentially seeking to have themselves declared victorious without having to go through a trial.
We note that in its motion, Blizzard claims that Donnelly sold $2.8 million worth of Glider. That's a lot of bots. For the legal-minded, here is Blizzard's motion and here is Donnelly's.
Comments
An MMO is by and large a service, and really in a lot of instances people expect a little too much for their dollar. I'll say it again, you don't own anything when it comes to WoW or any other MMO. The content is all owned by the company and you're leasing it for fun.
You can cry out that Blizz is a terrible company but what it ultimately boils down to is that they are looking out for the majority of their 10 million customers at the expense of the minority. It's not some evil plot to control your computer or to keep you from enjoying the game. It's a perfectly legitimate plot to keep something they are constantly investing resources into under their control. Want a comparison? How about this, if you own a computer (which I'm assuming you do) how would you feel if you're neighbor decided his bandwidth would be better if he "fiddled" with your internet wiring a bit. He's a customer of the same IP company, he pays his money just like you do, and since he's only online on his computer 3 hours a day, while you're home and online a lot more (for arguements sake making the assumption) he sets up the wiring in your apartment complex so when he signs on, you lose signal. When he signs off, you get full service.
In a world without some kind of agreement between the service provider and the service reciever, he has every right to do this, because who is going to step in? Who has authority? Without an agreement of some kind the company can't take any action, and since you have no agreement with him you would have no recourse save trying to fix the problem yourself. You have no agreement with the company, thus they have no incentive to fix it for you.
Even a basic "I pay you and you make it work." is an agreement. In Blizzard's case, their CUSTOMERS have cried out against this program, and thus they're taking action. I say good for you Blizz, and good luck.
i've been playing LOTRO recently, having given up on the WOW grind, and i have to admit, i will not miss the gold-farmers spamming chat every five minutes if the game companies get an edge with which to shut them down
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the way EULAs are structured but even though it's an idealistic view, I think if more gamers voted with their wallets rather than their mouths then game companies would definitely start taking notice. And to a degree I think the standards SHOULD be stricter for MMO games like WoW.
That said, aside from a couple of posts I don't see much discussion of the specifics so far. How much of the negative opinion is really because of Blizzard's specific defense and how much is just because it's an EULA?
@puddington: I'm not a tech whiz by any means and I know almost nothing about Glider specifically, but my guess is that there are probably some nuances of RAM loading regarding what gets loaded and when. Things like Glider loading parts of the software that wouldn't otherwise be loaded, or altering the data contained in the RAM. As far as monitoring your RAM, even in detail, I don't see why that would be a problem as long as you're not altering whatever WoW keeps in RAM. And even if it were technically against the rules, do you think Blizzard would ban you for monitoring your RAM? I doubt it, personally.
@jds: My solution to the grind is simple: When it gets boring, stop playing. There's a good reason why after three years I only have one 70 and one other character above level 30. ;)
But I'm wondering just how bad the grind is in WoW that people would really use bots to skip on it. Most of the stories I've heard are from people on crazy big raids with very little mention of collection quests, and most of the botting activity seems to revolve around people who get behind in the game and discover that their friends have moved on to saving helpless tigers from angry princesses while they're still stuck with getting cats out of trees. I agree that grinding is a necessary, time-wasting enterprise, but you'd think that Blizzard would be aware of that and work the mechanics to favour the exciting stuff. Then again, you'd also think they'd know how to g-line the gold farmers by now. There's a lot I don't know about this modern MMO stuff. In my day the social-nerds had their MUDs and they were happy with 'em, dagnabbit.
Ah, but there's the rub. It is only a game- but it's a game that people pay to play, both in dollars and in time. It's a very easy game, in fact. However, you still need to know how to play.
This is a problem my roommate has re: easy availability of character respecs, and a similar problem with a botter- let us say that a person has botted up to level 70. Unless this person has done it manually in the past, I don't expect them to know what they are doing at all. What sort of end-game content is he going to participate in? Probably the kind where he fails at his character's job and gets the party killed.
This effects other players, frustrating them. Frustrated players are NOT a thing Blizzard wants. Frustrated players are players that might stop giving them dollars.
Not at all. You're assuming there's no checking at the server end. Instead what we have, is, without user input, the app is requesting that the back make a 2nd transaction, after noting information received from the 1st. Say it notes that the bank says you've been paid today, so it send back a request that you pay Mastercard $100. No money is created or destroyed.
"Please tell me HOW it would be legal for someone to create and distribute a program which incrementally increased the amount of money in their bank account without any actual deposit from said person?"
You're talking about server-side hacking, which is a completely different issue.
Like I said, Glider was designed specifically to violate Blizzard's EULA/ToU. What Blizzard HAS been doing is shutting down every account that they found using Glider. However, this is an endless battle, and Blizzard now is turning to other options (like Copyright/DMCA) to nail Glider's developers. The most the EULA is brought up, from my understanding of Blizzard's position, is that the program was designed with the intent to break the EULA/ToU. So, Blizzard also is pointing out that the system was made for that explicit purpose -- but that is not a strong position to argue from, that's for sure. Fortunately, it isn't the only leg they are standing on.
It does cause an unfair advantage. Namely -- botting helps provide for goldsellers, it is a cheap and effective way to get gold or items to sell for real-world money, to make a profit on Blizzard's game by selling things that a) have no real-world value, and b) are notowned by the goldsellers. It is effectively a scam to rip off players, and one that Blizzard is strongly against. Botting makes it so a single person can work on grinding out gold and items for multiple characters simultaneously -- increased volume.
That is the main thing Blizzard is protecting against.
"I’m sorry but frankly if you’re attitude is that my time and effort working on building this experience for you is worthless, I don’t want you to play the game I made."
As long as I'm paying you money why the hell do you care whether I play it or not?
Another quip. If you guys honestly think that shutting down Glider is going to do a single thing to the availability of bots, it's not, it's just going to outsource it overseas where Blizzard can't touch the botmakers. Meanwhile, we're stuck with the shitty ramifications of this law.
While we all hate bots, and I can see Blizzard wanting to use this as precedent to slap down farmers... I don't think this is the right route.
I don't know the details of MAI v. Peak, but in the circumstances of this case, based on HOW A COMPUTER WORKS, the WoW software, and content, must be copied into RAM anyway in order to be executed. So, how far does Blizzard's case reach? Am I still allowed to monitor my RAM while WoW is running? In how much detail? Am I allowed to know how much RAM WoW currently occupies? It gets a little ridiculous.
This is one of those situations where nobody sides with the perpetrator, but nobody wants to see the legal arguments used by Blizzard prevail; yes botting is undesirable behavior, but so is legally enforcing a draconian EULA.
That being said, I also hate just how much power is behind those bloody EULAs. I understand that they're there to give the companies the ability to effectively police thier game and make it a fun environment for most customers. But so of the things we agree to when we click that "I Agree" button is insane! They definitely need trimmed down significantly.
Personally, my monthly charges have been driving me nuts lately, I've got too many people dipping into my account once a month, if you're not actually going to play it, turn it the (beep) off. Doesn't have to be any more complicated then that.
Bots are cheating and buying from farmers is cheating. I think Blizzard should have the right to stamp both out. If you don't have the time to play the game legitimately, too bad for you. It doesn't give you the right to go ruining the game experience for others.
Case in point. A while back I replayed the original Dragon Warrior on the NES. I was playing out of nastalgia. I got all the way to the end where the only thing left to do was beat the end boss. The only problem was that I was nowhere near a high enough level to beat him. I had about 8-10 evels before I could be strong enough.
I had three options:
1. Quit playing as I had played and beaten it before.
2. Grind for days to gain those levels.
3. Use a Game Genie to speed up the leveling process.
I didn't want to quit the game, but would have been willing. I have quit games I have never beaten, so no skin off my back.
I didn't have time to grind for days. My schedule is such as I have limited time to play games and didn't want to waste time on something that was not engaging.
I decided to go with the Game Genie. I wanted to beat the game again just to say I did. I had played the game legitimately up to this point so I had no qualms wit hinflating xp gained. Took me about 2 hours to max out my level and I beat the game. I have moved on to other games.
So using this as an example, I can see why regular users would be willing to use a bot to level for them so that they can play the quests when they have time.
Some folks would like to play the game but get real tired of killing five dorks, then killing seven nerds, then going and killing ten geeks, then collecting eight dork rings to give to Dick-Tar, then doing the same old grind for hours upon hours. They are the ones that are primarily doing this. I did it, and loved it. It kept me from having to kill five dorks, then kill seven nerds, then killing ten geeks, then collecting eight dork rings to give to Dick-Tar.
Go Modder!
If you don't like it, go kill twelve Dick-Tars and bring me eight Flerp Feathers and two Slup Slapper skulls... we'll talk.
However, it is Blizzard's game and when I was visited by the lovely Ban Hammer, I didn't complain.
However, farmers suck. When I want my mats for something, I hate flying around looking for one of the hundreds of nodes and seeing someone who is obviously farming to sell at a website. Let people play the game.
Zach - You bring up a good point, but there is a big difference between using cheats in a single player game and using a bot or mod on an MMO.
In an MMO these activities CAN have a direct impact on other players. Case in point the use of botting programs to farm items and then sell them for real life money. Not only are players who have not gone through the process of earning those items getting them, which gives them an advantage over legitimate players, but the legitimate players lose out on drops that the botting programs are getting. Especially when these drops come from rare, non-instanced mobs.
I fully support Blizzard's right to slap down the modders and botters in this instance. Do I like the amount of control they exert through the EULA? Not terribly, but it doesn't bother me enough to stop me from playing. And that's what the issue really boils down to. If the restrictions they place on us aren't enough to stop us from clicking the accept button on the EULA, then we really have no place breaking those rules. If you can't agree to play under their terms, you don't get to play the game. Plain and simple, playing is not a right, it's a privilege we're granted, in part because we pay for it and in part because we agree to abide by Blizzard's terms.
March 24th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Why’s Blizzard’s undies all in a bunch? They are still getting their monthly fees. Billions and billions of dollars of monthly fees.
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Because it is screwing with the on-line economy of the game and that messing is up for other honest paying customers. Are you saying that Bot users and gold farmers have a right to mess up the game for honest players?
Billions and Billions huh? Last I checked 10 million times $15 is still only 150 million. And about a 3rd or more of that is used up in costs (yes it really does take 50 million dollars a month to pay all their staff and pay for buildings, servers, bandwidth, upkeep, etc.) Even after that a large chunk of the money goes to Vivendi Corp.
Also, why si the fact that they profit any defense for people breaking the rules of the game? That's like saying it's ok to break the law because the government charges taxes.
This goes beyond the already not-simple matter of enforcing a problematic EULA. Claiming that those actions constitute direct copyright infringement and claiming copyright circumvention are not the right tools to be using to stop botting. One, it stretches the already broad copyright laws into places that they shouldn't be. Two, it makes this behavior CRIMINAL. It seems that Blizzard is attempting to use the overly harsh criminal penalties of copyright infringement to stop cheating at a game- and there must be better and more reasonable ways to do that.
People are paying to play a game and paying to not play it.
That's pretty messed up right there.
Blizzard Entertainment has a history of bullying/hostility and throwing a corporate temper tantrum (look at how they reacted with "Star Hack" for more information). The DMCA is one of their favorite things, and they use it very aggressively any way they can. Note-the last product I bought from them was Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne and as they have notched up their bullying tactics, I'm not 100% sure I'll buy or even play Starcraft 2 when it arrives. I don't like financially rewarding companies who are so blatantly pro-DMCA.
March 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
My only contribution is that I agree with everything EZK and jds said. However, I hate MMO’s, so it doesn’t matter to me. But if I were to somehow lose my brain and join one, I would totally use a bot.
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EZK was playing a single player game. That is different. His actions do not effect other players. Bot users and gold farmers do. They cheat and it effects everyone around them for their own benefit.
March 24th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I personally take the view that if you don’t agree with an EULA, you shouldn’t be clicking the “I Agree” button.
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QFT, end of story
But you don't want to have to deal with the constant grind that wastes your time and money.
Seem's perfectly fair.
Btw I don't play WoW, I don't have the time to waste on something thats just going to end up stealing my soul.
"This goes beyond the already not-simple matter of enforcing a problematic EULA. Claiming that those actions constitute direct copyright infringement and claiming copyright circumvention are not the right tools to be using to stop botting. One, it stretches the already broad copyright laws into places that they shouldn’t be. Two, it makes this behavior CRIMINAL. It seems that Blizzard is attempting to use the overly harsh criminal penalties of copyright infringement to stop cheating at a game- and there must be better and more reasonable ways to do that."
Ok first off technically copyright law is not criminal, it's contractual. It fits more closely into civil law I believe.
Moving beyond petty technicalities however, why is this a bad thing? Blizzard spent a lot of resources building a program. To put it simply. This person has gone outside the scope of their legal rights and abused this program for personal gain. Thus (by our standards) all the money they've accumulated is not legally theirs. The way I see it Blizzard is protecting it's investment, nothing more. This is the exact same thing as someone suing someone else for stealing their game program, just on a much larger scale. Blizzard is protecting a multi-billion dollar project. This project is the basis for hundreds of jobs and almost the entire income of the company right now. I'm sorry but I don't feel at all sorry for the guy who decided he was going to steal all those people's work for his own profit.
When WoW launched, it was criticized for being "too easy" and things going "too quickly" -- that the grind was almost completely done with, since there was a feeling of accomplishment from doing quests and such. Compared to basically every other MMO on the market at the time, WoW's grind was short, sweet, and quickly blown through to the highest level.
It only has gotten faster, what with entire quest series having been added in areas and level ranges that were missing or short on quests, and then a ton of the quests that used to require groups to do were made soloable across the world, and then the amount of XP you get for doing quests was bolstered considerably for most levels, as well as the amount of XP you needed to go from one level to the next was significantly reduced for most levels, the grind is incredibly quick any more.
Which they have. It now is faster than ever to get up to the "end-game" level (currently 70), and get into raids, battlegrounds, arenas, and other things that are "end-game". Raids were opened up to be more accessible to a wider range of players, etc. Which all of this has resulted in a lot of bitter resentment from a few of the players who felt that it is not fair how "easy" the game is now for people.
A botter can play as much as a regular player with one big and unfair advantage, when a legit player is sleeping/working/etc, his character doesn't advance. When a botter isn't playing his character keeps moving, killing and growing stronger.
Mi guess is that blizzard not only sued for the creation of the bot system but for his creator making 2.8 millions dollars, that's a pretty large sum of money for an individual and we all know that large corporations hate when people get rich on their expenses
Also, I'm going to go against the flow and say "I don't hate botters", at least ones that use this "Glider". Apparently Glider sucks for farming anyway, and it's only good for leveling. I DON'T have a lot of time to play, so I would feel it's perfectly fine to use a bot to get through a lot of grind to get to my friends' level. It's not hurting anyone, so why should it be illegal?
Botting for farming is perhaps a different story if its taking goods away from actual players. Even then I don't have much sympathy, since if your profession is that easy to farm then it's your fault for doing it. Plus, it's only a game so get over it.
Yeah, level 20 is about the minimum that you can beat the Dragon Lord with a whole lot of luck on your side. About level 25 is where it is pretty effortless. Considering the game caps at level 30 I was not far off. I think I was about 18 when I got Erdrick's sword on that last play through.
The problem was with the fact that the max XP you get from any enemy is 105, it takes a while to get the 10,000 xp needed for each level after 20.
@ Dennis
Where's the rest of the article?
On the other hand it gives some people an unfair advantage over others. This also helps gold farmers and others and frankly gold farmers are never a good thing in any game.
So maybe they need to make the grind and ingame money less important in the game itself.
I agree.
To expand on that I must say I have little love for Blizz on this one and here's why... EULAs need to be kicked in the head. Many go FAR beyond where they should and it's high time they be taken to task. Blizz is basically complaining that this mod is selling like hotcakes and making it so WoW players (like myself) could get their character's skills leveled without having to spend hours and hours in mundane land with the precious time available to them. The World of Warcraft was created by Blizz... Rules by Blizz. Blizzard created this demand and is now upset that someone filled it, profited from it, and posed this under a guise as an unfair advantage to those who don't glide (like me) in game.
So how do you solve this?
Easy...
Blizzard provides a glider for EVERYONE in game for mundane tasks. Then the playing field is leveled and no one has an advantage.
Why don't they? So you'll spend longer getting to those higher levels, pay them more, and allow them more time to create new content.
That's why I see this as a Blizzard created problem. The mod creater needs the win on this one.
"Ok first off technically copyright law is not criminal, it’s contractual. It fits more closely into civil law I believe."
By attempting to invoke the DMCA, they are trying to move it from civil into the realm of criminal.
"Moving beyond petty technicalities however, why is this a bad thing? Blizzard spent a lot of resources building a program. To put it simply. This person has gone outside the scope of their legal rights and abused this program for personal gain."
Have they a right to complain? Yes. Have they a right to demand laughably sad restrictions on you in order to protect their product? No.
My take on this, is they're not banning PLAYERS who violate their EULA, they're using the EULA to justify suing the botmaker for copyright infringement. If this was really about EULA violations, they'd be going after the players who use this app. But they're trying to argue somehow that through reverse-engineering a method for bypassing the anti-bot stuff, that the botmaker is in violation of the EULA. He might very well be, but violating the EULA doesn't not suddenly give Blizzard the right to demand damages...
Violation of the EULA, a breach of contract, just means that the botmaker can have his account legitimately shut down. Nothing more.
Which is why I hope they really go over the EULA with a fine toothed comb, and find out what other "rights" Blizzard has awarded itself...
In either case, I agree Blizzard have a problem, but they do have their rights too, that people don't exploit their product.
Look at the measures Runescape took instead, in regards to the bot/ farmer problem. Made hundreds of players mad, but stopped them in their tracks. Blizzard aren't getting anywhere with all this legal action. Sure they can sue one person in regards to one bot program... but seriously.. what do they hope to accompish? It won't stop the problem...
Basically, Blizzard are correct in the fact they need to protect their game, but the methods they're using are not going to help in any way.
The problem with you're argument is that you're not recognizing Blizzard's interests.
They're interest lies in protecting the experience of the players. Sure, banning each player that uses the software is within their power, but aside from the fact that the modder manufactured a way around their detection programs (which he claims are unauthorized but are actually authorized by the fact that the person must install them on their computers themselves and agree to their use by agreeing to the EULA) he is hurting Blizzard's interests by frustrating legitimate players.
Frankly I would like to see the courts hang him out to dry, not only with monetary damages but with time served. If you want to go into the extreme Blizzard could probably make a case that not only does his program affect the Client software but because of the nature of the relationship of the client and server software that the mod also affects and changes the server software, which he has no claim to.
After all, if the botters are a pain, why not negate thier advantage by tweaking the game?
Plus tweak up the memory adressing in an "auto log-off" (or funnier, character deletion?) manner and watch them botters have fun!
Until they tweak thier way around that. Capthcha access to some areas anyone?
Come on Blizzard, be inventive for once in your corporate history.
What's next, is the government gonna sue all the companies that sell radar detectors because it will potentially get them out of a speeding ticket?
My dad botted his warlock from 69-70, then fired up a lower level character. I glance over at his laptop occasionally since my desktop is right next to the desk he usually leaves it on, he's been botting his second character for about 4 days now (about 8 hours at a time, he turns it off at night), he has barely over 4 gold. The idea that botters "break the economy" is ludicrous. Farmers distribute gold widely, not to a small number of individuals, and they certainly don't spend the gold they accumulate themselves. The people who buy gold may receive a very high amount of gold compare to what their grinding would give them, but it's often a small portion of the gold a farmer wields over his usually multiple accounts. A very small portion of this gold is ever spent by the farmer, and never on high-demand items, since a farmer has no need for twink gear, or high level trade goods.
The only argument for "botting is bad" that I see has any merit is when a bot is set to farm in a high-traffic area, or patrols an area that lets the character whore a rare item drop, since this is actually disruptive. However, this really isn't a huge issue for players who are just grinding, since there are massive areas where mobs of a particular level spawn, though it may cause problems for "kill X of enemy Q" quests. Most players will put bots in low-traffic areas anyway, in order to avoid being noticed by other players.
I wanna see an MMO released that allows all the "disruptive" actions other games will ban for, just to dispel a few of these old wives tales about. "X action breaks the in-game economy!" or "P Action ruins the game for other players!" And if botting really DOES damage the in-game balance, then at least you'll have proof. I currently see no evidence that (properly used) botting does anything detrimental to other players, and I refuse to truly look down on it until I see something of the sort.
Now before the whole "I don't have a lot of time a day/week to play" argument comes up again let me throw this out there. I work a full time job Monday through Friday, when I get home, eat dinner and relax I might have 2 hours to play before I need to head to bed 3 if I am lucky. Now that isn't much time when you get to the higher levels, yet I still was able to achieve level 70 and even raid with my guild with my schedule. Sure it took a little longer than those who had more time on their hands but it made obtaining even better to me.
Now if you are using it to level an Alt because you don't want to grind for the gear again, then don't make an Alt. If you don't want to work for something then don't do it. You are still going to be mediocre because you have no idea how to play your class because you have had a damn bot running your from 1-70.
@loudspeaker
"Blizzard provides a glider for EVERYONE in game for mundane tasks. Then the playing field is leveled and no one has an advantage."
So pay a company to give you a program the plays the game for you? No thanks, I'd rather enjoy the game myself than have a bot play it for me
"Why don’t they? So you’ll spend longer getting to those higher levels, pay them more, and allow them more time to create new content."
Uhhh so they should make everybody get to end game easier, and then quit when they are bored because they cannot produce new content for them to enjoy?
"That’s why I see this as a Blizzard created problem. The mod creator needs the win on this one."
The only thing the mod creator deserves is a brick to the face, he is no better than those Gold Sellers, or hackers who steal people's accounts. He is doing nothing more than contributing to the ruining of a game by allowing lazy people to get to a part of the game they did not earn, and giving gold farmers an easier time with getting away with what they are doing.
...
Yeah, fuck Blizzard.
Look up "Kingdom of Loathing" and "Meatsink".
Then understand.
"The problem with you’re argument is that you’re not recognizing Blizzard’s interests."
Frankly my dear, I just don't give a damn. ;)
Seriously. Blizzard cannot legitimately justify a lawsuit against the botmaker over this. They can cancel accounts, as people who use the software must abide by the EULA in order to play. But they can't use the EULA to somehow transform this into a copyright infringement argument, which is what they are trying to do.
This has very serious implications for software developers. What about virus-scanners? They need to monitor RAM and other resources in order to do their job. Does the WoW EULA forbid them too? I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
The question is not if the botmaker is doing something disreputable. I agree that it is. BUT the question is whether a EULA can be used, not to punish people who use a bot (and are therefore in violation of the EULA they agreed to in order to play the game), but to sue someone who developed the bot? Does agreeing to the EULA "grant" Blizzard that "right"? What EXACTLY are the consequences to violating the EULA? Is the right to sue over monitoring your system listed?
That's what I said.
They should be inventive for once in a while and tweak the memory allocation system to mess stuff up for bot users but that is about all they should do.
I play it regularly to be honest, but I got tired of grinding mobs to get a new 70, spending my hours farming gold for a flying mount, and having to do it multiple times. The rep grinding got boring as well. So I bought glider.
There's a huge difference between botters and gold farmers. Most botters just do it to level or take care of rep grinding, you rarely notice them, because most only do it a few hours out of the day. I did it 3-4 hours a day to level my characters. And if someone is in the area and they want to grind, I stop the bot and let them have the spot.
Gold farmers are the ones who really have a hand in ruining your precious server economy, and they're the ones you tend to notice since they farm ungodly hours all over the place.
Sure there's still the unfair advantage of me being able to level in my sleep, and I have been banned for that, ironically I lost legit characters and not botted ones, but it's the price I pay.
Its wrong, It undermines the game's mechanics and is unfair to those who decide to play by the rules and not cheat. Botting is unjustifiable. I know some stuff is boring and tedious, however thats not an excuse to screw with the game's economy by having a program do everything for you.
"Ok first off technically copyright law is not criminal, it’s contractual. It fits more closely into civil law I believe."
Copyright law contains both civil and criminal elements in and of itself, and the amounts discussed (in excess of 2.8 million) places this well into the criminal area. Blizzard is also alleging breach of contract, but that's mostly separate.
The violation of an End-User License Agreements should be separated from copyright law, in my opinion. Blizzard is alleging willful contributory and vicarious infringement by "copying the WoW software into Random Access Memory beyond the scope of the EULA." They're also saying that the software circumvents a technological protection measure (the Warden software), which would also make the software in violation of the DMCA. I think that's stretching it.
While I have no problem believing that potential infringement outside of the scope of a license could potentially be infringement, I don't believe that copyright should be the tool used. It this is the case of violating a license, then use breach of contract, not infringement.
As to your following paragraph, it's a bad thing not because they're stopping the cheating or the profit from cheating- like I said, I don't have a problem with that. I believe it's a bad thing because of the way they're doing it. The way they're going about it has repercussions beyond stopping someone cheating.
Apart from the "currency drains" (which I assume was the only reason you asked me to look that up) designed to keep inflation at bay (durability, in WoW's case) that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.
In any case, I already pointed out the fact that botters don't contribute to inflation. My dad bots regularly with a character currently in the high 20s and has no more gold than anyone else, he ends up spending a lot of it on food & drink in order to keep the bot from dying while it runs, actually.
Farmers, though they do inflate the economy somewhat, are nowhere as disastrous as Blizzard wants you to believe. They sell gold for as high prices as possible to as many people as possible, as such, inflation is next to nil, because they're in turn distributing an otherwise massive amount of gold, which would be very harmful to the ingame economy if several characters had amounts of gold that high, but since nobody does except the farmers, and they don't spend it, there isn't any inflation.
I can't say copyright is the correct or even logical course of action, but there has to be some recourse for a company to stop the distribution of a program that is, by design, violating the terms they've set forth for use. Since there is no other way they can go about it, I have to support the use of copyright.
I'm not familiar with WoW economy, but I'm certain that heavy bot usage can mess up virtual economies big.
Because bot usage doesn't directly increase a user's income (they have to set it to loot certain areas or drops, instead of gaining simply by turning it on), most botters don't have an unfair advantage other than the grinding they do, which isn't really all that unfair unless you like to whine about people leveling faster than you do.
As for farmers, yes, they fuck up the economy, but only a little, and there's nothing you can do to get rid of them. I'd just allow it outright, but put something in the EULA that would make whoring rare drops/trade goods a banable offense. In Blizzard's case, however, their EULA has already been created, botting is completely against the rules, and they have every right to ban characters that use botting programs. That said, it's really not all that disruptive, and really only has merit as a good PR move.
What I'm curious about is the Gnome in the headline's picture. Does he belong to one of the GP crew? And if so, can we vote to make him the official mascot of the forums? :-)
Thing is, the EULA cannot cover 3rd party utility software creation. 3rd party software USE, yes. But again, I ask, what exactly is the consequence of violating a contract? Does it give you the right to terminate the contract, and shut down accounts? Yes. Does it give you the right to demand a return of what was initially supplied? In most cases, yes. Does it give you the right to demand exorbitant payment as punishment for violating the contract? Not at all.
I'm going to make a weird analogy, so bear with me. The state lays down laws saying you can drive on their roads, but you cannot go faster than 110km/h. You, as a drivers' licensee, agree to abide by this rule while driving on state roads. Now company A makes a device, that makes your car go faster. Who is guilty, company A, or you, for both installing, and using the device with your car on those roads?
Now when YOU violate the speed laws, you get fined large amounts of money. But you sign the license, KNOWING what those fines will be. They're not merely listed as "some sum we'll determine later". But can you sue the part maker for "enabling" you to violate the speed laws? Nope. YOU took the part, YOU installed it, and YOU used it to go faster than the speed limit. Could Ford/GM/VW/etc sue the part maker? Nope. Can they terminate your lease, or refuse to service under the warranty, if they find out you're using that part? Absolutely.
A.) Reads your computer's memory.
B.) Generates keystrokes/mouseclicks.
If this becomes a precedent, we'll get to see more people abuse the DMCA for far less.
EULA != law.
This is the true case at hand. So uh, ECA, did this fly under your guys' radar or something? Not berating, just wondering where you guys stand on the issue, because I know where I do.
However do you think there wouldn't be any consequences for the makers of the parts? I can't say for sure whether a company can make something that allows people to perform illegal actions without any consequence. The only example I can think of that situation is radar detectors which are only illegal in some states.
Should a company be able to stop someone from creating software which will edit the function of that companies software? Yes. The glider software is essentially hacking the client side software, which then affects the server side software. The program is hacking the server software and changing it.
This is akin to someone creating a program to hack bank databases to edit the amounts of money in someones account. They then sell the software to people. Would the people be prosecuted? Yes. Would the person who created the software get away without being prosecuted? No, because causing the situation where the crime occurs is considered in itself a crime. Is it the same crime? No, but it is creating the crime and deserves it's own punishment.
Is the guy who created the software guilty of copyright infringement? not directly, but he did create the system which caused the copyright infringement (or even just the EULA violation) to occur, so he is responsible for the entirety of the EULA violations.
Frankly Blizzard could probably add a clause saying they can seize monetary damages to the EULA, do the normal you must agree to this in order to play and go after him for that. He would be free for the programs already distributed, but any new sales would be prosecutable.
That's all it does, it doesn't "hack" anything. It doesn't access any information that the player wouldn't have access to, and doesn't input any data into the game client that a regular user isn't able to.
Whoa, whoa. You have NO idea what you're talking about. Glider is NOT a hack. Glider does NOT modify the WoW code in any way. Glider READS from memory. Glider generates the keystrokes and mouse movements to automate the character in-game. Also, in client/server programming, YOU DO NOT TRUST THE CLIENT. The server is authoratative. 95% of all multiplayer-related game hacks stem from poor server code. Look at all of the projects based on the Quake engines. Since the projects source code has been released, all of the known 'hacks' have been patched.
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but take it from somebody who knows what they're talking about. This is not a 'hack'. It doesn't patch any executable code, it only reads from your PC's memory much the same way an anti-virus program does to scan processes for virus signatures.
This is why this issue is so hard to bring into court, because I doubt there's a judge alive who understands the true heart of this issue, and Blizzard knows it.
It's true. Without them there wouldn't be much ice on the market. None of the regular players and miners want it.
I myself used to play quite often. If you don't mind me asking, what corp/alliance are you with? I used to be a member of XF before the break up, then we joined ASCN for a while, then they fell, not that surprising. Then I left for a bit. Came back rejoined my corp right as the alliance they were in was getting kicked out by Tri, then we joined Insurgency. Then I left again. Getting off Academic probation at school is more important than Eve.
Rather then trying to determine what actions are being done by players and what are being automated, Blizz made a policy that said no automation could be done. This is why macros can't even have chained commands within their system.
I see a lot of people crying out about consumer rights, and normally I would agree, but something has to be said for protecting the design of the game. If a player doesn't like playing the game for the game play, they shouldn't be playing it at all.
"The only example I can think of that situation is radar detectors which are only illegal in some states."
There's a reason I left radar detectors out of my example. Because they *explicitely* interfere with law enforcement. They don't make your car go faster, they make your car either invisible to, or warn you of, radar/lidar dectection. Had Glider interfered with "Watcher" in some way, by fooling it into thinking the software was not tampered with, when it was, you might have a smidgen of a valid case.
But Glider does no such thing. Glider would be the equivalent of driving down the highway at normal speed, making a note of all the police checks, and then telling people where they are, and they then use that information to speed at the places the police are not. Is it disreputable? Yes. Is it illegal? It would be very hard to justify that you making a note of police traps is. The speeders on the other hand... well...
"This is akin to someone creating a program to hack bank databases to edit the amounts of money in someones account."
No, it's not. This is akin to using virus scanning software to check your outgoing packets to your own account at your own bank. Only the bank doesn't want you to scan the packets for whatever reason. So they forbid you to scan for viruses while you do your online transactions. But you do it anyway. Is it in violation of the banking EULA? Yes. Does it give them the right to terminate your ability to do banking online? Yes. Does it give them the right to sue virus-scanning companies? Why?
The end result would look similar, but that means absolutley nothing. If I were to open Oblivion, sneak next to a creature, then glue down my forward key to have the character walk into the corner, I've done something radically different than opening the console and changing the value of my sneak skill, though both actions would accomplish the same thing. I have no idea where you're getting your logic from.
Please tell me HOW it would be legal for someone to create and distribute a program which incrementally increased the amount of money in their bank account without any actual deposit from said person?
Ask the people that make all the automated programs designed to sell stock in your portfolio when it reaches a certain price.
But really, Glider is more expensive than playing legit unless you use it to farm. The costs of keeping the automated character alive are far greater than what it takes to keep a regular user alive. The entire basis of your argument is that players that use glider have some kind of unfair advantage, and when used in certain ways, it's true. But I doubt